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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,587
    John_M said:

    SeanT said:

    John_M said:

    SeanT said:

    Paul_Bedforshire

    "Maybe it is because I am catholic that my initial reaction to a woman in full length dress and a headscarf is respect for their sense of modesty amongst the sick decadence and hedonism all around them."

    That's what I think when I see the burqa, too. I think "respect". Also FGM. Save these poor girls from their immoral clitorises. Teach their vaginas to respect.

    Perhaps when you've had to teach 11 year old girls sent to school dressed like that, when their parents want to withdraw them from large sections of the curriculum including non-participation in sport/music, removing them from school for months on end, harming their educational prospects - culminating in them going altogether to marry someone against their express wishes - you *might* have a rather different view of the extremes of certain religions.


    My experiences are from inner city UK schools in the 21st century, not the backwaters of Appalachia.
    Islam.

    Islam is horribly diseased. It is a great faith suffering a terrible psychosis, lurching back to the cruel and hideous verities of the early Middle Ages. How hard is this to grasp? The evidence is everywhere: it dominates the news daily.

    It's an arms race, within Islam, of theologically-inspired barbarity and homicide. And this is itself intensified by a gruesome war between Shia and Sunni - like our own 30 Years War, but happening now.

    As such the best we can do in the west is insulate ourselves from Islam as it goes through its madness. We reduce Muslim immigration into our countries to near zero, we strongly encourage Muslims of the more fundamentalist kind to leave the West (by making it hard for them to follow the faith), and we cease our interference in their affairs - let the Islamic world do what it wants to do, so be it.

    This is the only option.

    The trouble is, where is this reformation to come from? The direction of travel seems to be in one direction - backwards. Iran and Afghanistan were very western in the 70s. Lebanon was the playground of the Med.

    Recently finished Bernard Lewis's 'What Went Wrong'. Came away utterly depressed.
    Is Christianity any better, when in past times it has been powerful? Or is the sort of world the Christian fanatics in the US want to see really any better? The antidote, for us, is that when our Christian fanatics come out with their nonsense the majority of us just laugh. The real question therefore is why more Muslims are not laughing. Or laughing, and turning them in.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,187
    Tim_B said:



    Anglais means English: we might be angels, but it doesn't translate that way. The French for angels is anges. It's not even close. Just dumb.

    And it shall come to pass that in the end days the beast shall reign 100 score and 30 days and nights. And the faithful shall cry unto the Lord, 'Wherefore art thou in the day of evil?' And the Lord shall hear their prayers. And out of the Angel Isle he shall bring forth the Deliverer; the holy Lamb of God who shall do battle with the beast. And shall destroy him."

    That "the beast shall reign 100 score and 30 days and nights" is another way of saying "seven years": it's the time I've been head of Thorne.

    "And out of the Angel Isle he shall bring forth the Deliverer": the Angel Isle, the original Latin has "ex insula Anglorum"...

    ..."England"


    Omen III: The Final Conflict (1981)
  • Options
    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,780

    BigRich said:

    The Librarian party

    Top quality autocorrect! :)
    You can back the Librarian on Betfair. They have a book.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    I don't know how it will happen or wither Farron will play a big role in it, but think its possible that in a few years time we could be looking more like the Canada, with one major conservative party, one major Liberal party, and a smaller trade union supported left wing party (the New Democracy party in Canada) and how could I forget a significant sucseshanist party.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    BigRich said:

    The Librarian party

    Top quality autocorrect! :)
    LOL, sorry, it must have been all the talk of Libraries earlier.
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Britain was exhausted by, say, 1944. And understandably. We didn't especially distinguish ourselves in D Day, tho there was particular heroism in places.

    Our great triumph was the Battle of Britain and the sheer moral courage of withstanding the Blitz and the rest. Standing entirely alone - and then winning. When everyone else was absent, or fallen. It's why many Europeans slightly and subconsciously resent us, even now. We have this sense of self-worth that they lost, forever.

    And these things are handed on, via cultural DNA. Without the Battle of Britain there would be no Brexit.

    It may be a foolish national delusion, but it exists. It's got nothing to do with nostalgia for Empire, as so many europhiles would have it.

    It's 1940.
    Arguably this baggage holds us back. So much so its almost impossible to imagine that before 1940 this was not a part in the British identity at all.
    Though Trafalgar fulfilled much the same function. "England has saved herself by her exertions, and will, as I trust, save Europe by her example," and all that. And before that, the Armada.
    Good for us, but in each case we should modestly bear in mind that what we are really celebrating is

    the silver sea,
    Which serves us in the office of a wall,
    Or as a moat defensive to a house,
    Against the envy of less happier lands.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited July 2016
    viewcode said:

    Tim_B said:



    Anglais means English: we might be angels, but it doesn't translate that way. The French for angels is anges. It's not even close. Just dumb.

    And it shall come to pass that in the end days the beast shall reign 100 score and 30 days and nights. And the faithful shall cry unto the Lord, 'Wherefore art thou in the day of evil?' And the Lord shall hear their prayers. And out of the Angel Isle he shall bring forth the Deliverer; the holy Lamb of God who shall do battle with the beast. And shall destroy him."

    That "the beast shall reign 100 score and 30 days and nights" is another way of saying "seven years": it's the time I've been head of Thorne.

    "And out of the Angel Isle he shall bring forth the Deliverer": the Angel Isle, the original Latin has "ex insula Anglorum"...

    ..."England"


    Omen III: The Final Conflict (1981)
    ...And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O LORD, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the LORD did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu... [At this point, the friar is urged by Brother Maynard to "skip a bit, brother"]... And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.

    Book of Armaments, Chapter 2, verses 9-21

    I can quote irrelevant nonsense too ;)
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    This is an issue that we have all failed to address properly, I feel."
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4974870.stm
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    stjohn said:

    BigRich said:

    The Librarian party

    Top quality autocorrect! :)
    You can back the Librarian on Betfair. They have a book.
    Groan...
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,187
    SeanT said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:


    But we've had massive numbers of terrorist attacks in France in the last year, and Le Pen has gone backwards against Juppe - from getting 36% to around 30% today.

    I looked at that UK vs US immigration fears graph and trace the data back to its original source, which is here:http://www.policyuncertainty.com/immigration_fear.html . It has indices for the US, UK, German, French and Spanish fear of immigration.

    Here's a thing

    The UK has suffered very little from recent immigration, at least in comparison to France and Germany. But the UK's fear of immigration index is considerably higher than France's, Germany's, the US or Spain's.

    I think this differential fear will distort our view of the upcoming French election, and cause us to assume Le Pen (whichever one) is more popular than reality. This has implications with respect to betting.

    The UK has suffered "very little" from recent immigration??

    Did you overlook the 1400 white girls gang raped by racist Muslims in Rotherham alone? Or did that slip your mind?

    Because it sure as hell didn't get overlooked by lots of Brexit voters. Who took the only chance they had, however clumsy, to register their distress.
    If I had said "The UK has suffered very little from recent immigration", you might have had a point.

    But what I did say is "The UK has suffered very little from recent immigration, at least in comparison to France and Germany.".

    Which doesn't mean the same thing.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    nunu said:

    This is an issue that we have all failed to address properly, I feel."
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4974870.stm

    All that time and still they have failed to deal with the issues.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    nunu said:

    This is an issue that we have all failed to address properly, I feel."
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4974870.stm

    It's from 2006 nunu. Or have I missed your point?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,587

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Basically because whilst Russians were dying in their thousands on the eastern front, Britain was particularly reluctant to press on with opening a second front, and wasn't even particularly keen on the Americans pressing ahead with this as early as 1943. As with article 50 we prefer to get everything lined up before making a rash move.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    nunu said:

    This is an issue that we have all failed to address properly, I feel."
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4974870.stm

    From 2006?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    IanB2 said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Basically because whilst Russians were dying in their thousands on the eastern front, Britain was particularly reluctant to press on with opening a second front, and wasn't even particularly keen on the Americans pressing ahead with this as early as 1943. As with article 50 we prefer to get everything lined up before making a rash move.
    If a Third Front in France (Italy was the Second Front, remember?!) was also successfully opened up in 1943 (no guarantee of success, of course), but if it was opened up, wouldn't Western Allies have reached Berlin way before the Russians would have done?
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    SeanT said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Britain was exhausted by, say, 1944. And understandably. We didn't especially distinguish ourselves in D Day, tho there was particular heroism in places.

    Our great triumph was the Battle of Britain and the sheer moral courage of withstanding the Blitz and the rest. Standing entirely alone - and then winning. When everyone else was absent, or fallen. It's why many Europeans slightly and subconsciously resent us, even now. We have this sense of self-worth that they lost, forever.

    And these things are handed on, via cultural DNA. Without the Battle of Britain there would be no Brexit.

    It may be a foolish national delusion, but it exists. It's got nothing to do with nostalgia for Empire, as so many europhiles would have it.

    It's 1940.
    Arguably this baggage holds us back. So much so its almost impossible to imagine that before 1940 this was not a part in the British identity at all.
    Yes, possibly. But it is a fundamental part of our identity now, just as the French revolution crucially forms their self image, even though the country dates back a thousand years before 1789.

    My father often used to speculate on the damage to our society caused by the WWI slaughter of this country's gene pool. Never seen any work on it, though.
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    runnymede said:

    A handwringers' and losers' alliance, appealing to a small metropolitan minority.
    I disagree. If they can organise it (most unlikely) there is a huge constituency out there yearning to vote for them. 48% of Brits voted IN. Many of them are very upset. And want a rematch.

    48% was 16 million votes, remember.

    A new party promising to take us back into the EU only has to get 10 million votes, and they likely win the GE.

    What will fox them is time and party politics. But there is a prize to be had, if they get lucky.
    Certainly shouldn't be written off at this stage. The 48% are, from my anecdotal experience, bloody angry and looking for a home, and that certainly isn't the fratricidal cesspit the Labour party has become.
    Look to what happened in Scotland. The side that lost the vote had the anger and energy to prosper.
    Someone predicted on here in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit vote that the LDs would be the big winners. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds, but the scenario that someone else has outlined i.e. Canadian style political parties is very plausible.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    BigRich said:

    stjohn said:

    BigRich said:

    Pong said:

    BigRich said:

    Pong said:

    BigRich said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pong said:

    Nate Silver Verified account 
    @NateSilver538
    Gary Johnson up to 9.3% in our national poll average, his high point of the year so far.
    ??

    Many thanks, at 450/1 I will do this!

    But I don't quite understand how it could be 450/1 on one site and then 33/1 to lay on another site, what is stopping somebody backing on one site and laying on another, and then overall making money whatever the outcome? sorry if this is a stupid question.
    Not a stupid question at all!

    Predictit only accepts US customers, Betfair explicitly rejects US customers.
    Many thanks for you help, I now understand the difference, and have placed my first ever Political bet, no my first real bet of any type!

    So form now on, when people accuse me of being mad to belief Gary Johnson has a chance I will be able to say I am putting my money where my mouth is!
    BigRich. You highlighted Gary Johnson's POTUS prospects about a month ago. I had never heard of him or the Libertarian Party at the time. After a bit of googling I backed him on Betfair at 1000.

    Good luck to us both!
    Indeed, good luck to both of us! I wish I had the courage of my convictions a month ago to get 1000 to 1!

    To recap, the reasons I think that The Librarian party candidate Gary Johnson may be the next POTUS is:
    Sadly I think the odds are right. A self-confessed current pot user is not going to become president, and the party has even more nut-jobs in it than usual for American politics.
    Its possible that will scupper him in some people minds at least, but, like with Gay Marriage opinions are change fast on Pot use, and for some people it will be a plus, (at least his openness and honesty) remember he does not need to be everybody's first pic, he just has to be above both Hillary and Trump for about a third of the people.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,187
    Tim_B said:

    viewcode said:

    Tim_B said:



    Anglais means English: we might be angels, but it doesn't translate that way. The French for angels is anges. It's not even close. Just dumb.

    And it shall come to pass that in the end days the beast shall reign 100 score and 30 days and nights. And the faithful shall cry unto the Lord, 'Wherefore art thou in the day of evil?' And the Lord shall hear their prayers. And out of the Angel Isle he shall bring forth the Deliverer; the holy Lamb of God who shall do battle with the beast. And shall destroy him."

    That "the beast shall reign 100 score and 30 days and nights" is another way of saying "seven years": it's the time I've been head of Thorne.

    "And out of the Angel Isle he shall bring forth the Deliverer": the Angel Isle, the original Latin has "ex insula Anglorum"...

    ..."England"


    Omen III: The Final Conflict (1981)
    ...And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O LORD, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the LORD did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu... [At this point, the friar is urged by Brother Maynard to "skip a bit, brother"]... And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.

    Book of Armaments, Chapter 2, verses 9-21

    I can quote irrelevant nonsense too ;)
    Yes, but did you track down a YouTube copy of the original movie then transcribe the dialog in order to ensure the quote was accurate? If I'm going to quote gibberish, I'll make damn sure it's accurately quoted... :)
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,587

    IanB2 said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Basically because whilst Russians were dying in their thousands on the eastern front, Britain was particularly reluctant to press on with opening a second front, and wasn't even particularly keen on the Americans pressing ahead with this as early as 1943. As with article 50 we prefer to get everything lined up before making a rash move.
    If a Third Front in France (Italy was the Second Front, remember?!) was also successfully opened up in 1943 (no guarantee of success, of course), but if it was opened up, wouldn't Western Allies have reached Berlin way before the Russians would have done?
    Didn't Patton think (rightly or otherwise) that he could make Berlin first, but was refused permission to try because it had already been agreed at the highest level that this was for the Russians?
  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    IanB2 said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Basically because whilst Russians were dying in their thousands on the eastern front, Britain was particularly reluctant to press on with opening a second front, and wasn't even particularly keen on the Americans pressing ahead with this as early as 1943. As with article 50 we prefer to get everything lined up before making a rash move.
    If the russians had opened up a second front in 1939/40 instead of just helping themselves to bits of poland.........
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    IanB2 said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Basically because whilst Russians were dying in their thousands on the eastern front, Britain was particularly reluctant to press on with opening a second front, and wasn't even particularly keen on the Americans pressing ahead with this as early as 1943. As with article 50 we prefer to get everything lined up before making a rash move.
    Years ago, I remember reading Max Hasting's Overlord. The British believed that the Germans were simply better combat soldiers. We had an inferiority complex if you will. They also didn't think much of US troops (the impression made at Kasserine Pass took a long time to recede) .
    Normandy showed that we were right to be cautious. I think we'd have been destroyed in '43.

    We had a lot of trouble beating Rommel - I think he only had about 4 German divisions in Pz armee Afrika.

    The Heer were excellent troops. The Waffen-SS were even better.
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Fallon is a man fighting yesterday's battles.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,587
    BBC1 now, a chance for us to remember and be proud!
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,552
    SeanT said:

    John_M said:

    Is there a special badge you get for being insulted here by Sean, or do I have to commission a special T shirt?

    It's like the WWI Iron Cross 2nd class. Every Tom, Dick and Harry's got one. You get the oak leaves if you're on the receiving end of a peroration.
    Ah I see.

    Have to say Malcolm is much more erudite when it comes to sending insults,

    But then I am a bit partial to Turnips....
    A few days ago Malc revealed that, while incredibly drunk in Texas, he ate a frog. The man is a hero. Whatever people say about "too many non-political non-betting posts on PB," I know my life would feel far less complete if he had never told us that.

    It tasted of chicken, apparently. Which disappointed me, since that seems to be what all meat-eaters think any new non-fishy meat tastes like, though as a vegetarian I don't really know that translates to. I had my hopes pinned on something more exotic though. If he'd said "it tasted like horse" or "tang of jellyfish" then I think I'd have awarded him a medal!
    I've eaten frog. I've also eaten DRIED frog, in Cambodia.

    Let me tell you, the fresh frog is ambrosia, in comparison.

    1) snake bile
    2) rotten shark
    3) drunken shrimp

    Absolutely disgusting.

    I think the UK is having a let your hair down moment wrt immigration which at times is very ugly and was sanctioned by the referendum although that was hardly the referendum's fault.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    AnneJGP said:

    SeanT said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Britain was exhausted by, say, 1944. And understandably. We didn't especially distinguish ourselves in D Day, tho there was particular heroism in places.

    Our great triumph was the Battle of Britain and the sheer moral courage of withstanding the Blitz and the rest. Standing entirely alone - and then winning. When everyone else was absent, or fallen. It's why many Europeans slightly and subconsciously resent us, even now. We have this sense of self-worth that they lost, forever.

    And these things are handed on, via cultural DNA. Without the Battle of Britain there would be no Brexit.

    It may be a foolish national delusion, but it exists. It's got nothing to do with nostalgia for Empire, as so many europhiles would have it.

    It's 1940.
    Arguably this baggage holds us back. So much so its almost impossible to imagine that before 1940 this was not a part in the British identity at all.
    Yes, possibly. But it is a fundamental part of our identity now, just as the French revolution crucially forms their self image, even though the country dates back a thousand years before 1789.

    My father often used to speculate on the damage to our society caused by the WWI slaughter of this country's gene pool. Never seen any work on it, though.
    There's a good argument that the halcyon inter-war period that people often accuse us of harking back to is because a lot of burglars, armed robbers etc were slaughtered, not just the odd poet or artist.

    Britain was certainly short of men in WW2. Our manpower peaked in summer '44. Monty had to nurse what was left until war's end.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    viewcode said:

    Tim_B said:

    viewcode said:

    Tim_B said:



    Anglais means English: we might be angels, but it doesn't translate that way. The French for angels is anges. It's not even close. Just dumb.

    And it shall come to pass that in the end days the beast shall reign 100 score and 30 days and nights. And the faithful shall cry unto the Lord, 'Wherefore art thou in the day of evil?' And the Lord shall hear their prayers. And out of the Angel Isle he shall bring forth the Deliverer; the holy Lamb of God who shall do battle with the beast. And shall destroy him."

    That "the beast shall reign 100 score and 30 days and nights" is another way of saying "seven years": it's the time I've been head of Thorne.

    "And out of the Angel Isle he shall bring forth the Deliverer": the Angel Isle, the original Latin has "ex insula Anglorum"...

    ..."England"


    Omen III: The Final Conflict (1981)
    ...And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O LORD, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy." And the LORD did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu... [At this point, the friar is urged by Brother Maynard to "skip a bit, brother"]... And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.

    Book of Armaments, Chapter 2, verses 9-21

    I can quote irrelevant nonsense too ;)
    Yes, but did you track down a YouTube copy of the original movie then transcribe the dialog in order to ensure the quote was accurate? If I'm going to quote gibberish, I'll make damn sure it's accurately quoted... :)
    Of course - you need to make sure it's complete gibberish!
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    John_M said:

    IanB2 said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Basically because whilst Russians were dying in their thousands on the eastern front, Britain was particularly reluctant to press on with opening a second front, and wasn't even particularly keen on the Americans pressing ahead with this as early as 1943. As with article 50 we prefer to get everything lined up before making a rash move.
    Years ago, I remember reading Max Hasting's Overlord. The British believed that the Germans were simply better combat soldiers. We had an inferiority complex if you will. They also didn't think much of US troops (the impression made at Kasserine Pass took a long time to recede) .
    Normandy showed that we were right to be cautious. I think we'd have been destroyed in '43.

    We had a lot of trouble beating Rommel - I think he only had about 4 German divisions in Pz armee Afrika.

    The Heer were excellent troops. The Waffen-SS were even better.
    Those troops were so good that they lost. In every theatre, in every campaign from 1942 onwards they lost.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,121
    edited July 2016
    MP_SE said:

    Fallon is a man fighting yesterday's battles.
    Farron is a man who desperately needs both to be noticed and to find a new cause if his party is to survive - he's swinging big, even if it means going old school!

    Truthfully though, I feel like I'm being left behind again as a voter. If the LDs want a new centre left alliance which involves the Greens, that locks them into that area and makes statements about working with anyone if needs be pretty hollow, so any centre-rightish tendencies I have will go unheeded from them. Labour are tacking left. May from her appointments intends to tack right. Not many options.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    On Amazon Prime Day, (7/12), I got a great new cover for my BBQ, which has four burners plus side burner and matching shelf on the other side (the bbq not the cover, pedants!). Tailored to fit perfectly with side vents and bottom vents to prevent it blowing off in high winds. Looks great, fits perfectly, two tone khaki, a deal down from $50 to $15.

    It's rained every bloody day since I got it!

    Rain is a little different here though. Almost always accompanied by thunder, high winds which drop the temperature by 20 degrees,heavy rain for about 30 minutes.

    Then the rain stops, temperature goes back up by 20 degrees, roads and sidewalks steam, and in an hour everything is bone dry.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,121
    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    runnymede said:

    A handwringers' and losers' alliance, appealing to a small metropolitan minority.
    I disagree. If they can organise it (most unlikely) there is a huge constituency out there yearning to vote for them. 48% of Brits voted IN. Many of them are very upset. And want a rematch.

    48% was 16 million votes, remember.

    A new party promising to take us back into the EU only has to get 10 million votes, and they likely win the GE.

    What will fox them is time and party politics. But there is a prize to be had, if they get lucky.
    Certainly shouldn't be written off at this stage. The 48% are, from my anecdotal experience, bloody angry and looking for a home, and that certainly isn't the fratricidal cesspit the Labour party has become.
    Look to what happened in Scotland. The side that lost the vote had the anger and energy to prosper.
    If things don't descend into utter disaster, the proportion of the 48% who will be suitably angry will diminish.
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    AnneJGP said:

    SeanT said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Britain was exhausted by, say, 1944. And understandably. We didn't especially distinguish ourselves in D Day, tho there was particular heroism in places.

    Our great triumph was the Battle of Britain and the sheer moral courage of withstanding the Blitz and the rest. Standing entirely alone - and then winning. When everyone else was absent, or fallen. It's why many Europeans slightly and subconsciously resent us, even now. We have this sense of self-worth that they lost, forever.

    And these things are handed on, via cultural DNA. Without the Battle of Britain there would be no Brexit.

    It may be a foolish national delusion, but it exists. It's got nothing to do with nostalgia for Empire, as so many europhiles would have it.

    It's 1940.
    Arguably this baggage holds us back. So much so its almost impossible to imagine that before 1940 this was not a part in the British identity at all.
    Yes, possibly. But it is a fundamental part of our identity now, just as the French revolution crucially forms their self image, even though the country dates back a thousand years before 1789.

    My father often used to speculate on the damage to our society caused by the WWI slaughter of this country's gene pool. Never seen any work on it, though.
    I've wondered about that too. If you look at the numbers as a proportion of population though, Britain was relatively less hit than others.

    2% UK, vs 4% France/Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties
  • Options
    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    John_M said:

    IanB2 said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Basically because whilst Russians were dying in their thousands on the eastern front, Britain was particularly reluctant to press on with opening a second front, and wasn't even particularly keen on the Americans pressing ahead with this as early as 1943. As with article 50 we prefer to get everything lined up before making a rash move.
    Years ago, I remember reading Max Hasting's Overlord. The British believed that the Germans were simply better combat soldiers. We had an inferiority complex if you will. They also didn't think much of US troops (the impression made at Kasserine Pass took a long time to recede) .
    Normandy showed that we were right to be cautious. I think we'd have been destroyed in '43.

    We had a lot of trouble beating Rommel - I think he only had about 4 German divisions in Pz armee Afrika.

    The Heer were excellent troops. The Waffen-SS were even better.
    Those troops were so good that they lost. In every theatre, in every campaign from 1942 onwards they lost.
    Excellent troops, atrocious logistics.
  • Options
    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    AnneJGP said:

    SeanT said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Britain was exhausted by, say, 1944. And understandably. We didn't especially distinguish ourselves in D Day, tho there was particular heroism in places.

    Our great triumph was the Battle of Britain and the sheer moral courage of withstanding the Blitz and the rest. Standing entirely alone - and then winning. When everyone else was absent, or fallen. It's why many Europeans slightly and subconsciously resent us, even now. We have this sense of self-worth that they lost, forever.

    And these things are handed on, via cultural DNA. Without the Battle of Britain there would be no Brexit.

    It may be a foolish national delusion, but it exists. It's got nothing to do with nostalgia for Empire, as so many europhiles would have it.

    It's 1940.
    Arguably this baggage holds us back. So much so its almost impossible to imagine that before 1940 this was not a part in the British identity at all.
    Yes, possibly. But it is a fundamental part of our identity now, just as the French revolution crucially forms their self image, even though the country dates back a thousand years before 1789.

    My father often used to speculate on the damage to our society caused by the WWI slaughter of this country's gene pool. Never seen any work on it, though.
    After some very loose googling:

    2% of the entire population died (whereas 4% died in the civil war)

    Our forces were 54% volunteer/46% conscript

    Entirely uneducated guess is that the losses aren't big enough to make that much difference, either by overall loss because the pool shrinks, or differentially because the good guys die out and the cads survive.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Tim_B said:

    On Amazon Prime Day, (7/12), I got a great new cover for my BBQ, which has four burners plus side burner and matching shelf on the other side (the bbq not the cover, pedants!). Tailored to fit perfectly with side vents and bottom vents to prevent it blowing off in high winds. Looks great, fits perfectly, two tone khaki, a deal down from $50 to $15.

    It's rained every bloody day since I got it!

    Rain is a little different here though. Almost always accompanied by thunder, high winds which drop the temperature by 20 degrees,heavy rain for about 30 minutes.

    Then the rain stops, temperature goes back up by 20 degrees, roads and sidewalks steam, and in an hour everything is bone dry.

    Jeez, over here we have a place in nearly every home called a kitchen. This is a room inside the home equipped with kit so that you can cook food whatever the weather outside. You septics might want to try the idea.
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    runnymede said:

    A handwringers' and losers' alliance, appealing to a small metropolitan minority.
    I disagree. If they can organise it (most unlikely) there is a huge constituency out there yearning to vote for them. 48% of Brits voted IN. Many of them are very upset. And want a rematch.

    48% was 16 million votes, remember.

    A new party promising to take us back into the EU only has to get 10 million votes, and they likely win the GE.

    What will fox them is time and party politics. But there is a prize to be had, if they get lucky.
    Certainly shouldn't be written off at this stage. The 48% are, from my anecdotal experience, bloody angry and looking for a home, and that certainly isn't the fratricidal cesspit the Labour party has become.
    Look to what happened in Scotland. The side that lost the vote had the anger and energy to prosper.
    If things don't descend into utter disaster, the proportion of the 48% who will be suitably angry will diminish.
    Also the vote split is different. All the Out scots could unite behind the SNP, while the unionist vote was split.

    For Leave, the Leave vote goes UKIP/Con (because Con is delivering Brexit), while the Remain vote is split between Labour, LD, SNP, Plaid, Green.
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Appears to be some kind of situation in Ankara tonight., Very confusing reports about a number of helicopters in the sky.

    May be nothing, may be something.
  • Options
    GravitationGravitation Posts: 281
    BigRich said:

    stjohn said:

    BigRich said:

    Pong said:

    BigRich said:

    Pong said:

    BigRich said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pong said:

    Nate Silver Verified account 
    @NateSilver538
    Gary Johnson up to 9.3% in our national poll average, his high point of the year so far.
    ??

    Many thanks, at 450/1 I will do this!

    But I don't quite understand how it could be 450/1 on one site and then 33/1 to lay on another site, what is stopping somebody backing on one site and laying on another, and then overall making money whatever the outcome? sorry if this is a stupid question.
    Not a stupid question at all!

    Predictit only accepts US customers, Betfair explicitly rejects US customers.
    Many thanks for you help, I now understand the difference, and have placed my first ever Political bet, no my first real bet of any type!

    So form now on, when people accuse me of being mad to belief Gary Johnson has a chance I will be able to say I am putting my money where my mouth is!
    BigRich. You highlighted Gary Johnson's POTUS prospects about a month ago. I had never heard of him or the Libertarian Party at the time. After a bit of googling I backed him on Betfair at 1000.

    Good luck to us both!
    The Librarian party
    The party where The Quiet Man isn't allowed to turn up the volume?

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,121
    On Brexit, if my previously non-voting relative who voted Leave is any indication, a lot of people are going to be furious if we don't declare article 50 within the month - there were apoplectic at the idea it would not be until next year, and I've never heard such vitriol toward a political figure from them as towards Sturgeon.
  • Options
    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Y0kel said:

    Appears to be some kind of situation in Ankara tonight., Very confusing reports about a number of helicopters in the sky.

    May be nothing, may be something.

    Are you reading yesterday's newspaper?
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    AnneJGP said:

    SeanT said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Britain was exhausted by, say, 1944. And understandably. We didn't especially distinguish ourselves in D Day, tho there was particular heroism in places.

    Our great triumph was the Battle of Britain and the sheer moral courage of withstanding the Blitz and the rest. Standing entirely alone - and then winning. When everyone else was absent, or fallen. It's why many Europeans slightly and subconsciously resent us, even now. We have this sense of self-worth that they lost, forever.

    And these things are handed on, via cultural DNA. Without the Battle of Britain there would be no Brexit.

    It may be a foolish national delusion, but it exists. It's got nothing to do with nostalgia for Empire, as so many europhiles would have it.

    It's 1940.
    Arguably this baggage holds us back. So much so its almost impossible to imagine that before 1940 this was not a part in the British identity at all.
    Yes, possibly. But it is a fundamental part of our identity now, just as the French revolution crucially forms their self image, even though the country dates back a thousand years before 1789.

    My father often used to speculate on the damage to our society caused by the WWI slaughter of this country's gene pool. Never seen any work on it, though.
    I've wondered about that too. If you look at the numbers as a proportion of population though, Britain was relatively less hit than others.

    2% UK, vs 4% France/Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties
    I think to take the raw percentage is to miss out on a lot. Look instead at the number of young officers who died. they along with the NCOs, were the brightest and the best. Losing those chaps in the proportion that we did, perhaps hit the gene pool hardest.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    edited July 2016
    saddened said:

    John_M said:

    IanB2 said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Basically because whilst Russians were dying in their thousands on the eastern front, Britain was particularly reluctant to press on with opening a second front, and wasn't even particularly keen on the Americans pressing ahead with this as early as 1943. As with article 50 we prefer to get everything lined up before making a rash move.
    Years ago, I remember reading Max Hasting's Overlord. The British believed that the Germans were simply better combat soldiers. We had an inferiority complex if you will. They also didn't think much of US troops (the impression made at Kasserine Pass took a long time to recede) .
    Normandy showed that we were right to be cautious. I think we'd have been destroyed in '43.

    We had a lot of trouble beating Rommel - I think he only had about 4 German divisions in Pz armee Afrika.

    The Heer were excellent troops. The Waffen-SS were even better.
    Those troops were so good that they lost. In every theatre, in every campaign from 1942 onwards they lost.
    Excellent troops, atrocious logistics.
    "A hell of a waste of fine infantry!" - George C. Scott as Patton.
  • Options
    hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 642

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    runnymede said:

    A handwringers' and losers' alliance, appealing to a small metropolitan minority.
    I disagree. If they can organise it (most unlikely) there is a huge constituency out there yearning to vote for them. 48% of Brits voted IN. Many of them are very upset. And want a rematch.

    48% was 16 million votes, remember.

    A new party promising to take us back into the EU only has to get 10 million votes, and they likely win the GE.

    What will fox them is time and party politics. But there is a prize to be had, if they get lucky.
    Certainly shouldn't be written off at this stage. The 48% are, from my anecdotal experience, bloody angry and looking for a home, and that certainly isn't the fratricidal cesspit the Labour party has become.
    Look to what happened in Scotland. The side that lost the vote had the anger and energy to prosper.
    Someone predicted on here in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit vote that the LDs would be the big winners. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds, but the scenario that someone else has outlined i.e. Canadian style political parties is very plausible.
    The lesson from the Scottish referendum is that without a conclusive result the decision does not go away. Ruth Davidson spotted this and used it to beat Labour into 3rd place in their old heartland. The Tories whether they like it or not are seen as the Brexit party and the Lib Dems are going for the remain voters. Labour is at risk of losing the battle as no-one knows where it stands on this key issue.

    For the Tories the execution risk is high and the timeline of 4 years is short. I still do not see an easy answer to freedom of movement and keeping the Irish border open. Sending EU nationals home is just not credible but neither is giving passports to everyone here before a set date. I don't see the big wins from trade deals with the ROW. USA is already a big trade partner, China is a difficult market and Australia is far away and small. What about universities and students? They have been getting a raw deal for the last 10 years.

    While a remainer I think the general review of our country future is a good idea. There are too many things that don't make sense and the country is like the English football team. Nowhere near as good as it thinks it is. If the review is done well then it could set the Tories as the dominant party for the next 10 years. However if it messes up then ...

  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited July 2016

    Tim_B said:

    On Amazon Prime Day, (7/12), I got a great new cover for my BBQ, which has four burners plus side burner and matching shelf on the other side (the bbq not the cover, pedants!). Tailored to fit perfectly with side vents and bottom vents to prevent it blowing off in high winds. Looks great, fits perfectly, two tone khaki, a deal down from $50 to $15.

    It's rained every bloody day since I got it!

    Rain is a little different here though. Almost always accompanied by thunder, high winds which drop the temperature by 20 degrees,heavy rain for about 30 minutes.

    Then the rain stops, temperature goes back up by 20 degrees, roads and sidewalks steam, and in an hour everything is bone dry.

    Jeez, over here we have a place in nearly every home called a kitchen. This is a room inside the home equipped with kit so that you can cook food whatever the weather outside. You septics might want to try the idea.
    I don't cook - I have never cooked. If a recipe says to separate the eggs I make two piles. I have a kitchen - I know I do because it has a pantry where I keep Heidi's food, and a large range which has never been used but is a good place to store trays etc.

    But as a husband and father (in that order - no whiff of scandal here) I fell victim to the US custom that it is the man of the house who operates the bbq.

    I have recently cracked the problem by buying a T-Fal Optigrill. It cooks everything from sausages to steaks to chicken and god knows what from frozen, and beeps when it's done right. It sits in the kitchen. I use the bbq a few times a year with mesquite chips or other wood chips to get that beautiful taste in steak.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited July 2016
    viewcode said:

    I looked at that UK vs US immigration fears graph and trace the data back to its original source, which is here:http://www.policyuncertainty.com/immigration_fear.html . It has indices for the US, UK, German, French and Spanish fear of immigration.
    ...

    Thanks for that. It's actually rather misleading, because what it measures is not 'immigration fear' at all, but certain terms in articles written in a small number of newspapers:

    To construct our Migration Fear Index, we count the number of newspaper articles with at least one term from each of the M and F term sets, and then divide by the total count of newspaper articles (in the same calendar quarter and country).
    ...
    We obtain counts from Le Monde for France, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung and Handelsblatt for Germany, the Financial Times and the Times of London for the United Kingdom, and US newspapers indexed by the Access World News Newsbank database for the United States.


    Unless Le Monde has changed one hell of a lot since I last read it, I don't think you can tell the slightest thing about 'immigration fear' in France from its articles; it is even less representative of France as a whole than the FT and Times are of the UK.

    So, sadly, I think this is voodoo academia, and should be chucked in the bin. A pity, because a more robust immigration-fear index might be quite interesting.
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Y0kel said:

    Appears to be some kind of situation in Ankara tonight., Very confusing reports about a number of helicopters in the sky.

    May be nothing, may be something.

    Are you reading yesterday's newspaper?
    History repeats...

    This is in the last hour.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited July 2016
    kle4 said:

    On Brexit, if my previously non-voting relative who voted Leave is any indication, a lot of people are going to be furious if we don't declare article 50 within the month - there were apoplectic at the idea it would not be until next year, and I've never heard such vitriol toward a political figure from them as towards Sturgeon.

    'Why doesn't she (Sturgeon) shut up? So irritating,' was the verdict of my daughter earlier.

    27, Green/Labour sympathetic, pro-Remain ++++, works in banking for a big European bank.

  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    BigRich said:

    stjohn said:

    BigRich said:

    Pong said:

    BigRich said:

    Pong said:

    BigRich said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pong said:

    Nate Silver Verified account 
    @NateSilver538
    Gary Johnson up to 9.3% in our national poll average, his high point of the year so far.
    ??

    Many thanks, at 450/1 I will do this!

    But I don't quite understand how it could be 450/1 on one site and then 33/1 to lay on another site, what is stopping somebody backing on one site and laying on another, and then overall making money whatever the outcome? sorry if this is a stupid question.
    Not a stupid question at all!

    Predictit only accepts US customers, Betfair explicitly rejects US customers.
    Many thanks for you help, I now understand the difference, and have placed my first ever Political bet, no my first real bet of any type!

    So form now on, when people accuse me of being mad to belief Gary Johnson has a chance I will be able to say I am putting my money where my mouth is!
    BigRich. You highlighted Gary Johnson's POTUS prospects about a month ago. I had never heard of him or the Libertarian Party at the time. After a bit of googling I backed him on Betfair at 1000.

    Good luck to us both!
    The Librarian party
    The party where The Quiet Man isn't allowed to turn up the volume?

    One where Dewey did prevail.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    saddened said:

    John_M said:

    IanB2 said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Basically because whilst Russians were dying in their thousands on the eastern front, Britain was particularly reluctant to press on with opening a second front, and wasn't even particularly keen on the Americans pressing ahead with this as early as 1943. As with article 50 we prefer to get everything lined up before making a rash move.
    Years ago, I remember reading Max Hasting's Overlord. The British believed that the Germans were simply better combat soldiers. We had an inferiority complex if you will. They also didn't think much of US troops (the impression made at Kasserine Pass took a long time to recede) .
    Normandy showed that we were right to be cautious. I think we'd have been destroyed in '43.

    We had a lot of trouble beating Rommel - I think he only had about 4 German divisions in Pz armee Afrika.

    The Heer were excellent troops. The Waffen-SS were even better.
    Those troops were so good that they lost. In every theatre, in every campaign from 1942 onwards they lost.
    Excellent troops, atrocious logistics.
    That and they simply took on too many fights.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited July 2016
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    On Amazon Prime Day, (7/12), I got a great new cover for my BBQ, which has four burners plus side burner and matching shelf on the other side (the bbq not the cover, pedants!). Tailored to fit perfectly with side vents and bottom vents to prevent it blowing off in high winds. Looks great, fits perfectly, two tone khaki, a deal down from $50 to $15.

    It's rained every bloody day since I got it!

    Rain is a little different here though. Almost always accompanied by thunder, high winds which drop the temperature by 20 degrees,heavy rain for about 30 minutes.

    Then the rain stops, temperature goes back up by 20 degrees, roads and sidewalks steam, and in an hour everything is bone dry.

    Jeez, over here we have a place in nearly every home called a kitchen. This is a room inside the home equipped with kit so that you can cook food whatever the weather outside. You septics might want to try the idea.
    I don't cook - I have never cooked. If a recipe says to separate the eggs I make two piles. I have a kitchen - I know I do because it has a pantry where I keep Heidi's food, and a large range which has never been used but is a good place to store trays etc.

    But as a husband and father (in that order - no whiff of scandal here) I fell victim to the US custom that it is the man of the house who operates the bbq.

    I have recently cracked the problem by buying a T-Fal Optigrill. It cooks everything from sausages to steaks to chicken and god knows what from frozen, and beeps when it's done right. It sits in the kitchen. I use the bbq a few times a year with mesquite chips or other wood chips to get that beautiful taste in steak.
    Dang, Mr B., I sure am glad that Heidi knows where her food is stored (looking forward the the lady's prediction for the presidential election too).

    As for the Optigrill, I agree a brilliant bit of kit. My son bought me one as a birthday present.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    On Amazon Prime Day, (7/12), I got a great new cover for my BBQ, which has four burners plus side burner and matching shelf on the other side (the bbq not the cover, pedants!). Tailored to fit perfectly with side vents and bottom vents to prevent it blowing off in high winds. Looks great, fits perfectly, two tone khaki, a deal down from $50 to $15.

    It's rained every bloody day since I got it!

    Rain is a little different here though. Almost always accompanied by thunder, high winds which drop the temperature by 20 degrees,heavy rain for about 30 minutes.

    Then the rain stops, temperature goes back up by 20 degrees, roads and sidewalks steam, and in an hour everything is bone dry.

    Jeez, over here we have a place in nearly every home called a kitchen. This is a room inside the home equipped with kit so that you can cook food whatever the weather outside. You septics might want to try the idea.
    I don't cook - I have never cooked. If a recipe says to separate the eggs I make two piles. I have a kitchen - I know I do because it has a pantry where I keep Heidi's food, and a large range which has never been used but is a good place to store trays etc.

    But as a husband and father (in that order - no whiff of scandal here) I fell victim to the US custom that it is the man of the house who operates the bbq.

    I have recently cracked the problem by buying a T-Fal Optigrill. It cooks everything from sausages to steaks to chicken and god knows what from frozen, and beeps when it's done right. It sits in the kitchen. I use the bbq a few times a year with mesquite chips or other wood chips to get that beautiful taste in steak.
    Dang, Mr B., I sure am glad that Heidi knows where her food is stored (looking forward the the lady's prediction for the presidential election too).

    As for the Optigrill, I agree a brilliant bit of kit. My son bought me one as a birthday present.
    Sounds like your lad thinks your culinary skills are on a par with mine :)

    On the plus side the cooking plates are dishwasher safe. This makes me feel less like an eco-terrorist when running the dishwasher with nothing but a few cups, spoons and cereal bowls.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,187

    viewcode said:

    I looked at that UK vs US immigration fears graph and trace the data back to its original source, which is here:http://www.policyuncertainty.com/immigration_fear.html . It has indices for the US, UK, German, French and Spanish fear of immigration.
    ...

    Thanks for that. It's actually rather misleading, because what it measures is not 'immigration fear' at all, but certain terms in articles written in a small number of newspapers:

    To construct our Migration Fear Index, we count the number of newspaper articles with at least one term from each of the M and F term sets, and then divide by the total count of newspaper articles (in the same calendar quarter and country).
    ...
    We obtain counts from Le Monde for France, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung and Handelsblatt for Germany, the Financial Times and the Times of London for the United Kingdom, and US newspapers indexed by the Access World News Newsbank database for the United States.


    Unless Le Monde has changed one hell of a lot since I last read it, I don't think you can tell the slightest thing about 'immigration fear' in France from its articles; it is even less representative of France as a whole than the FT and Times are of the UK.

    So, sadly, I think this is voodoo academia, and should be chucked in the bin. A pity, because a more robust immigration-fear index might be quite interesting.
    Not necessarily: it doesn't have to be representative of France per se, it just has to be comparable to itself over time (so you can say that the index has risen or fallen)

    Although for comparisons between countries, I would prefer it to be phrased as "LeMonde vs FAZ/Handelsblatt vs FT/Times" instead of "France vs Germany vs UK".

  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    On Amazon Prime Day, (7/12), I got a great new cover for my BBQ, which has four burners plus side burner and matching shelf on the other side (the bbq not the cover, pedants!). Tailored to fit perfectly with side vents and bottom vents to prevent it blowing off in high winds. Looks great, fits perfectly, two tone khaki, a deal down from $50 to $15.

    It's rained every bloody day since I got it!

    Rain is a little different here though. Almost always accompanied by thunder, high winds which drop the temperature by 20 degrees,heavy rain for about 30 minutes.

    Then the rain stops, temperature goes back up by 20 degrees, roads and sidewalks steam, and in an hour everything is bone dry.

    Jeez, over here we have a place in nearly every home called a kitchen. This is a room inside the home equipped with kit so that you can cook food whatever the weather outside. You septics might want to try the idea.
    I don't cook - I have never cooked. If a recipe says to separate the eggs I make two piles. I have a kitchen - I know I do because it has a pantry where I keep Heidi's food, and a large range which has never been used but is a good place to store trays etc.

    But as a husband and father (in that order - no whiff of scandal here) I fell victim to the US custom that it is the man of the house who operates the bbq.

    I have recently cracked the problem by buying a T-Fal Optigrill. It cooks everything from sausages to steaks to chicken and god knows what from frozen, and beeps when it's done right. It sits in the kitchen. I use the bbq a few times a year with mesquite chips or other wood chips to get that beautiful taste in steak.
    Dang, Mr B., I sure am glad that Heidi knows where her food is stored (looking forward the the lady's prediction for the presidential election too).

    As for the Optigrill, I agree a brilliant bit of kit. My son bought me one as a birthday present.
    Sounds like your lad thinks your culinary skills are on a par with mine :)

    On the plus side the cooking plates are dishwasher safe. This makes me feel less like an eco-terrorist when running the dishwasher with nothing but a few cups, spoons and cereal bowls.
    Wow, you have a dishwasher? Herself will not have such a thing in the house. As far as she is concerned she already has one that works quite well - me.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    saddened said:

    John_M said:

    IanB2 said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Basically because whilst Russians were dying in their thousands on the eastern front, Britain was particularly reluctant to press on with opening a second front, and wasn't even particularly keen on the Americans pressing ahead with this as early as 1943. As with article 50 we prefer to get everything lined up before making a rash move.
    Years ago, I remember reading Max Hasting's Overlord. The British believed that the Germans were simply better combat soldiers. We had an inferiority complex if you will. They also didn't think much of US troops (the impression made at Kasserine Pass took a long time to recede) .
    Normandy showed that we were right to be cautious. I think we'd have been destroyed in '43.

    We had a lot of trouble beating Rommel - I think he only had about 4 German divisions in Pz armee Afrika.

    The Heer were excellent troops. The Waffen-SS were even better.
    Those troops were so good that they lost. In every theatre, in every campaign from 1942 onwards they lost.
    Excellent troops, atrocious logistics.
    That and they simply took on too many fights.
    - and they studiously avoided engaging the Batley Townswomen's Guild

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce2jEDfPwG8
  • Options
    LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    edited July 2016
    IanB2 said:

    BBC1 now, a chance for us to remember and be proud!

    The last great day of Britain.

    Danny Boyle pulled off an amazing spectacle. A fantastic event, it can be remembered proudly once the UK has passed into history.
  • Options
    wasdwasd Posts: 276
    edited July 2016
    YouGov are polling on a Labour Party split.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    viewcode said:

    I looked at that UK vs US immigration fears graph and trace the data back to its original source, which is here:http://www.policyuncertainty.com/immigration_fear.html . It has indices for the US, UK, German, French and Spanish fear of immigration.
    ...

    Thanks for that. It's actually rather misleading, because what it measures is not 'immigration fear' at all, but certain terms in articles written in a small number of newspapers:

    To construct our Migration Fear Index, we count the number of newspaper articles with at least one term from each of the M and F term sets, and then divide by the total count of newspaper articles (in the same calendar quarter and country).
    ...
    We obtain counts from Le Monde for France, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung and Handelsblatt for Germany, the Financial Times and the Times of London for the United Kingdom, and US newspapers indexed by the Access World News Newsbank database for the United States.


    Unless Le Monde has changed one hell of a lot since I last read it, I don't think you can tell the slightest thing about 'immigration fear' in France from its articles; it is even less representative of France as a whole than the FT and Times are of the UK.

    So, sadly, I think this is voodoo academia, and should be chucked in the bin. A pity, because a more robust immigration-fear index might be quite interesting.
    Do people who don't read The Times really matter though!
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    On Amazon Prime Day, (7/12), I got a great new cover for my BBQ, which has four burners plus side burner and matching shelf on the other side (the bbq not the cover, pedants!). Tailored to fit perfectly with side vents and bottom vents to prevent it blowing off in high winds. Looks great, fits perfectly, two tone khaki, a deal down from $50 to $15.

    It's rained every bloody day since I got it!

    Rain is a little different here though. Almost always accompanied by thunder, high winds which drop the temperature by 20 degrees,heavy rain for about 30 minutes.

    Then the rain stops, temperature goes back up by 20 degrees, roads and sidewalks steam, and in an hour everything is bone dry.

    I don't cook - I have never cooked. If a recipe says to separate the eggs I make two piles. I have a kitchen - I know I do because it has a pantry where I keep Heidi's food, and a large range which has never been used but is a good place to store trays etc.

    But as a husband and father (in that order - no whiff of scandal here) I fell victim to the US custom that it is the man of the house who operates the bbq.

    I have recently cracked the problem by buying a T-Fal Optigrill. It cooks everything from sausages to steaks to chicken and god knows what from frozen, and beeps when it's done right. It sits in the kitchen. I use the bbq a few times a year with mesquite chips or other wood chips to get that beautiful taste in steak.
    Dang, Mr B., I sure am glad that Heidi knows where her food is stored (looking forward the the lady's prediction for the presidential election too).

    As for the Optigrill, I agree a brilliant bit of kit. My son bought me one as a birthday present.
    Sounds like your lad thinks your culinary skills are on a par with mine :)

    On the plus side the cooking plates are dishwasher safe. This makes me feel less like an eco-terrorist when running the dishwasher with nothing but a few cups, spoons and cereal bowls.
    Wow, you have a dishwasher? Herself will not have such a thing in the house. As far as she is concerned she already has one that works quite well - me.
    No wonder your lad left home! :) Do you have washday hands, or did the fairy Liquid commercials lie?

    I live in America, kitchens here have everything (and it all matches) - I have a garbage disposal, fridge, microwave, dishwasher and a trash masher - it mercilessly crushes cans, packages and other crushable stuff. Come trash day you pull the bag out of the machine, small but almost impossibly heavy to lift, dump it in the trash can and wheel that out to the curb.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    viewcode said:

    Not necessarily: it doesn't have to be representative of France per se, it just has to be comparable to itself over time (so you can say that the index has risen or fallen)

    Although for comparisons between countries, I would prefer it to be phrased as "LeMonde vs FAZ/Handelsblatt vs FT/Times" instead of "France vs Germany vs UK".

    Yes, the change in the index is of some interest. But even there I'd be very wary; for example, the upcoming referendum in the UK might well of itself have generated articles which would bump up the index as they've defined it.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited July 2016
    MaxPB said:

    Do people who don't read The Times really matter though!

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Lowlander said:

    IanB2 said:

    BBC1 now, a chance for us to remember and be proud!

    The last great day of Britain.

    Danny Boyle pulled off an amazing spectacle. A fantastic event, it can be remembered proudly once the UK has passed into history.
    Keep dreaming, the Union will be forever!
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,187

    viewcode said:

    Not necessarily: it doesn't have to be representative of France per se, it just has to be comparable to itself over time (so you can say that the index has risen or fallen)

    Although for comparisons between countries, I would prefer it to be phrased as "LeMonde vs FAZ/Handelsblatt vs FT/Times" instead of "France vs Germany vs UK".

    Yes, the change in the index is of some interest. But even there I'd be very wary; for example, the upcoming referendum in the UK might well of itself have generated articles which would bump up the index as they've defined it.
    I assume that a campaign that was dominated so heavily by immigration would generate a spike in an index measuring fear of immigration. And it seems that that did, in fact, occur.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    When was the last time a fund manager led the BBC headline news.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited July 2016
    viewcode said:

    I assume that a campaign that was dominated so heavily by immigration would generate a spike in an index measuring fear of immigration. And it seems that that did, in fact, occur.

    My objection is that it's not an index measuring fear of immigration, it's a count of words in newspaper articles (and in a tiny number of unrepresentative newspapers at that). It is a simple and unambiguous logical error to conflate the two. Only academics and economists make errors as stupid as that!
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    MaxPB said:

    Do people who don't read The Times really matter though!

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M
    :smile:
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,187


    My objection is that it's not an index measuring fear of immigration, it's a count of words in newspaper articles. It is a simple and unambiguous logical error to conflate the two.

    More specifically, it's the number of articles using one/more of certain words, divided by the total number of articles. I don't think it's unreasonable to use that as a proxy for fear of immigration (which isn't the same as conflation).

    You'd have to install safeguards - an article using the phrase "The town did not show a fear of immigration" does not mean the same as an article with the phrase "The town did show a fear of immigration" - and I'm sure there are other concerns (changes in terminology over time springs to mind) but it's not prima facie ridiculous.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,044
    BigRich said:

    stjohn said:

    BigRich said:

    Pong said:

    BigRich said:

    Pong said:

    BigRich said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pong said:

    Nate Silver Verified account 
    @NateSilver538
    Gary Johnson up to 9.3% in our national poll average, his high point of the year so far.
    ??

    Not a stupid question at all!

    Predictit only accepts US customers, Betfair explicitly rejects US customers.
    Many thanks for you help, I now understand the difference, and have placed my first ever Political bet, no my first real bet of any type!

    So form now on, when people accuse me of being mad to belief Gary Johnson has a chance I will be able to say I am putting my money where my mouth is!
    BigRich. You highlighted Gary Johnson's POTUS prospects about a month ago. I had never heard of him or the Libertarian Party at the time. After a bit of googling I backed him on Betfair at 1000.

    Good luck to us both!
    Indeed, good luck to both of us! I wish I had the courage of my convictions a month ago to get 1000 to 1!

    To recap, the reasons I think that The Librarian party candidate Gary Johnson may be the next POTUS is:

    1) Get over 15% in the opinion poles to get in the debates, with both of the main party candidates so unpopular some people will at least tell pollsters that they are backing him to avoid being associated with the other 2.

    2) Debates are always levelers, last time Romney was lagging and therefor got a boost out of them. in 2010 in the UK when Clegg was on the stage hear in the UK, he got a huge boost and was even in second place for a time! I could go on.

    3) he doesn't need to win 270 Electoral Collage Votes, he just needs to win sufficient to stop ether of the other 2 wining an out right majority. with the other 2 focusing much of there time, money and effort in 12 or so states, there are plenty that will be ignored, and he can appeal to Dems in Republican states to stop Trump in that state and Republicans in Dem states to stop Hilary,

    4) if no candidate has 270 ECVs then it foes to the house of congress, where I believe there are sufficient Libertarian leaning Republicans, to team up with the Democrats and nominate Johnson as preferable to Trump.

    Its still a long shot, but better than 430 to 1! and more to the point I would much rather be cheering his victory than ether Trump or Hillary!
    All very laudable, and I quite like the guy. But which States do you think he'll win? Remember that the Presidential election is about winning EC votes from States.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,587
    nunu said:

    When was the last time a fund manager led the BBC headline news.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business

    It just underlines that, despite all the froth (pro and anti) on here and elsewhere, we won't really know how things pan out for the economy for some months, if not years.

    Meanwhile I hope you caught the BBC programme about the 2012 opening ceremony; a simply amazing achievement. And the prog includes some revelations including that Jeremy Hunt tried to cut back the NHS sequence and Danny Boyle has to threaten to walk out to hang onto it.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,587

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    runnymede said:

    A handwringers' and losers' alliance, appealing to a small metropolitan minority.
    I disagree. If they can organise it (most unlikely) there is a huge constituency out there yearning to vote for them. 48% of Brits voted IN. Many of them are very upset. And want a rematch.

    48% was 16 million votes, remember.

    A new party promising to take us back into the EU only has to get 10 million votes, and they likely win the GE.

    What will fox them is time and party politics. But there is a prize to be had, if they get lucky.
    Certainly shouldn't be written off at this stage. The 48% are, from my anecdotal experience, bloody angry and looking for a home, and that certainly isn't the fratricidal cesspit the Labour party has become.
    Look to what happened in Scotland. The side that lost the vote had the anger and energy to prosper.
    Someone predicted on here in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit vote that the LDs would be the big winners. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds, but the scenario that someone else has outlined i.e. Canadian style political parties is very plausible.
    The lesson from the Scottish referendum is that without a conclusive result the decision does not go away. Ruth Davidson spotted this and used it to beat Labour into 3rd place in their old heartland. The Tories whether they like it or not are seen as the Brexit party and the Lib Dems are going for the remain voters. Labour is at risk of losing the battle as no-one knows where it stands on this key issue.

    I think this is right - depending on what happens to the economy over the next few years. Owen Smith sees the danger, hence all his talk about second referendums. But Labour is trapped between its London middle class/ethnic constituency and its northern wwc voters, with no way out. Yet another of its insoluable problems (barring the sudden appearance of a British Obama).
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    IanB2 said:

    nunu said:

    When was the last time a fund manager led the BBC headline news.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business

    It just underlines that, despite all the froth (pro and anti) on here and elsewhere, we won't really know how things pan out for the economy for some months, if not years.

    Meanwhile I hope you caught the BBC programme about the 2012 opening ceremony; a simply amazing achievement. And the prog includes some revelations including that Jeremy Hunt tried to cut back the NHS sequence and Danny Boyle has to threaten to walk out to hang onto it.
    It is sometimes hard to avoid the impression that Jeremy Hunt is a bit of a prat.
  • Options
    LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    runnymede said:

    A handwringers' and losers' alliance, appealing to a small metropolitan minority.
    I disagree. If they can organise it (most unlikely) there is a huge constituency out there yearning to vote for them. 48% of Brits voted IN. Many of them are very upset. And want a rematch.

    48% was 16 million votes, remember.

    A new party promising to take us back into the EU only has to get 10 million votes, and they likely win the GE.

    What will fox them is time and party politics. But there is a prize to be had, if they get lucky.
    Certainly shouldn't be written off at this stage. The 48% are, from my anecdotal experience, bloody angry and looking for a home, and that certainly isn't the fratricidal cesspit the Labour party has become.
    Look to what happened in Scotland. The side that lost the vote had the anger and energy to prosper.
    Someone predicted on here in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit vote that the LDs would be the big winners. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds, but the scenario that someone else has outlined i.e. Canadian style political parties is very plausible.
    The lesson from the Scottish referendum is that without a conclusive result the decision does not go away. Ruth Davidson spotted this and used it to beat Labour into 3rd place in their old heartland. The Tories whether they like it or not are seen as the Brexit party and the Lib Dems are going for the remain voters. Labour is at risk of losing the battle as no-one knows where it stands on this key issue.

    I think this is right - depending on what happens to the economy over the next few years. Owen Smith sees the danger, hence all his talk about second referendums. But Labour is trapped between its London middle class/ethnic constituency and its northern wwc voters, with no way out. Yet another of its insoluable problems (barring the sudden appearance of a British Obama).
    In a country where 37% gets you a majority government, aiming for the 48% is almost certainly a viable strategy.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,159
    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    runnymede said:

    A handwringers' and losers' alliance, appealing to a small metropolitan minority.
    I disagree. If they can organise it (most unlikely) there is a huge constituency out there yearning to vote for them. 48% of Brits voted IN. Many of them are very upset. And want a rematch.

    48% was 16 million votes, remember.

    A new party promising to take us back into the EU only has to get 10 million votes, and they likely win the GE.

    What will fox them is time and party politics. But there is a prize to be had, if they get lucky.
    Certainly shouldn't be written off at this stage. The 48% are, from my anecdotal experience, bloody angry and looking for a home, and that certainly isn't the fratricidal cesspit the Labour party has become.
    Look to what happened in Scotland. The side that lost the vote had the anger and energy to prosper.
    Someone predicted on here in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit vote that the LDs would be the big winners. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds, but the scenario that someone else has outlined i.e. Canadian style political parties is very plausible.
    The lesson from the Scottish referendum is that without a conclusive result the decision does not go away. Ruth Davidson spotted this and used it to beat Labour into 3rd place in their old heartland. The Tories whether they like it or not are seen as the Brexit party and the Lib Dems are going for the remain voters. Labour is at risk of losing the battle as no-one knows where it stands on this key issue.

    I think this is right - depending on what happens to the economy over the next few years. Owen Smith sees the danger, hence all his talk about second referendums. But Labour is trapped between its London middle class/ethnic constituency and its northern wwc voters, with no way out. Yet another of its insoluable problems (barring the sudden appearance of a British Obama).
    If the result of Brexit is a recession followed by a deal with little or no new restrictions on immigration, an agile leader of the opposition should be able to appeal to both pro-immigration remainers and anti-immigration leavers at the same time.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,311
    IanB2 said:

    Yet another of its insoluable problems (barring the sudden appearance of a British Obama).

    Chuka hasn't gone away you know.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Ishmael_X said:

    AnneJGP said:

    SeanT said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    John_M said:



    I think my most obscure books are the two volume 'Bloody Shambles' series, on the WW2 British air war in the Pacific. Pretty heavy going, but fascinating. We really don't pay as much attention to the Burma campaign as we should. Men of iron.

    I read Mr Johnson's 'Churchill Factor" recently.

    Apparently Stalin used to mock Churchill for the british military's reluctance to fight, and inability to win.

    Bit of a surprise to me, when I was growing up WW2 propaganda films were used by the TV bods as cheap fillers, so I absorbed a version full of pluck and triumph.
    Britain was exhausted by, say, 1944. And understandably. We didn't especially distinguish ourselves in D Day, tho there was particular heroism in places.

    Our great triumph was the Battle of Britain and the sheer moral courage of withstanding the Blitz and the rest. Standing entirely alone - and then winning. When everyone else was absent, or fallen. It's why many Europeans slightly and subconsciously resent us, even now. We have this sense of self-worth that they lost, forever.

    And these things are handed on, via cultural DNA. Without the Battle of Britain there would be no Brexit.

    It may be a foolish national delusion, but it exists. It's got nothing to do with nostalgia for Empire, as so many europhiles would have it.

    It's 1940.
    Arguably this baggage holds us back. So much so its almost impossible to imagine that before 1940 this was not a part in the British identity at all.
    Yes, possibly. But it is a fundamental part of our identity now, just as the French revolution crucially forms their self image, even though the country dates back a thousand years before 1789.

    My father often used to speculate on the damage to our society caused by the WWI slaughter of this country's gene pool. Never seen any work on it, though.
    After some very loose googling:

    2% of the entire population died (whereas 4% died in the civil war)

    Our forces were 54% volunteer/46% conscript

    Entirely uneducated guess is that the losses aren't big enough to make that much difference, either by overall loss because the pool shrinks, or differentially because the good guys die out and the cads survive.
    In the First World War, we were pretty careless about who we let die in the trenches, and by WW2 and probably even by the end of WW1 had developed the idea of reserved occupations, scientists were kept in their labs, and most officers were kept behind the lines.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "...most officers were kept behind the lines"

    I would be very interested to see some figures to back up that assertion, Mr. L.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    IanB2 said:

    Yet another of its insoluable problems (barring the sudden appearance of a British Obama).

    Chuka hasn't gone away you know.
    Chuka? Lol, funny doesn't even come close to Obama.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,311
    nunu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Yet another of its insoluable problems (barring the sudden appearance of a British Obama).

    Chuka hasn't gone away you know.
    Chuka? Lol, funny doesn't even come close to Obama.
    Incidentally, a happy occasion for him today:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1460059/labour-mp-chuka-umunna-reveals-wedding-photo-after-marriage-to-lawyer-fiancee/
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,159
    nunu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Yet another of its insoluable problems (barring the sudden appearance of a British Obama).

    Chuka hasn't gone away you know.
    Chuka? Lol, funny doesn't even come close to Obama.
    Labour should ask the actual Obama if he's interested.
  • Options
    DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited July 2016

    PlatoSaid said:

    What makes my blood run cold right now is that there's a deliberate intention to murder officers across the nation.

    Thinking your spouse may not come home each night is always a worry for law enforcement families, knowing that a small number of racists are seeking to shoot them is an entirely different kettle of fish.

    God knows what's going to happen in Cleveland tomorrow with the Trump convention. IIRC it's a open carry state.

    Its all getting a bit Ulster
    Northern Ireland: 3500 killed in 30 years of troubles.
    The US: 11000 homicides by firearm in 2013; 13000 in 2015.

    Much of the media, such as CNN, are fanning the flames. When I heard that a sniper had shot dead five policemen in Dallas, I thought this is it; this is one serious destabilisation effort that may well blow the country up. Snipers started it in Kiev 2014, in Budapest 1956, and elsewhere. Snipers anywhere near large political demonstrations are very bad news indeed. They have been used in Caracas too.

    But the mainstream account of what Micah Johnson did in Dallas doesn't describe the actions of a sniper at all. Sniper.

    Not that I have looked for holes in stories or weighed up conflicting accounts or speculation. But people should get a grip. Widespread armed conflict is certainly what some interests want, and it won't help the presidential campaigns of Hillary Clinton, Gary Johnson or Jill Stein.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,623
    Lowlander said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    runnymede said:

    A handwringers' and losers' alliance, appealing to a small metropolitan minority.
    I disagree. If they can organise it (most unlikely) there is a huge constituency out there yearning to vote for them. 48% of Brits voted IN. Many of them are very upset. And want a rematch.

    48% was 16 million votes, remember.

    A new party promising to take us back into the EU only has to get 10 million votes, and they likely win the GE.

    What will fox them is time and party politics. But there is a prize to be had, if they get lucky.
    Certainly shouldn't be written off at this stage. The 48% are, from my anecdotal experience, bloody angry and looking for a home, and that certainly isn't the fratricidal cesspit the Labour party has become.
    Look to what happened in Scotland. The side that lost the vote had the anger and energy to prosper.
    Someone predicted on here in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit vote that the LDs would be the big winners. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds, but the scenario that someone else has outlined i.e. Canadian style political parties is very plausible.
    The lesson from the Scottish referendum is that without a conclusive result the decision does not go away. Ruth Davidson spotted this and used it to beat Labour into 3rd place in their old heartland. The Tories whether they like it or not are seen as the Brexit party and the Lib Dems are going for the remain voters. Labour is at risk of losing the battle as no-one knows where it stands on this key issue.

    I think this is right - depending on what happens to the economy over the next few years. Owen Smith sees the danger, hence all his talk about second referendums. But Labour is trapped between its London middle class/ethnic constituency and its northern wwc voters, with no way out. Yet another of its insoluable problems (barring the sudden appearance of a British Obama).
    In a country where 37% gets you a majority government, aiming for the 48% is almost certainly a viable strategy.
    35% for Blair in 2005!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,240
    BigRich said:

    stjohn said:

    BigRich said:

    Pong said:

    BigRich said:

    Pong said:

    BigRich said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pong said:

    Nate Silver Verified account 
    @NateSilver538
    Gary Johnson up to 9.3% in our national poll average, his high point of the year so far.
    ??

    Many thanks, at 450/1 estion.
    Not a stupid question at all!

    Predictit only accepts US customers, Betfair explicitly rejects US customers.
    Many thanks for you help, I now understand the difference, and have placed my first ever Political bet, no my first real bet of any type!

    So form now on, when people accuse me of being mad to belief Gary Johnson has a chance I will be able to say I am putting my money where my mouth is!
    BigRich. You highlighted Gary Johnson's POTUS prospects about a month ago. I had never heard of him or the Libertarian Party at the time. After a bit of googling I backed him on Betfair at 1000.

    Good luck to us both!
    Indeed, good luck to both of us! I wish I had the courage of my convictions a month ago to get 1000 to 1!

    To recap, the reasons I think that The Librarian party candidate Gary Johnson may be the next POTUS is:

    1) Get over 15% in the opinion poles to get in the debates, with both of the main party candidates so unpopular some people will at least tell pollsters that they are backing him to avoid being associated with the other 2.

    2) Debates are always levelers, last time Romney was lagging and therefor got a boost out of them. in 2010 in the UK when Clegg was on the stage hear in the UK, he got a huge boost and was even in second place for a time! I could go on.

    3) he doesn't need to win 270 Electoral Collage Votes, he just needs to win sufficient to stop ether of the other 2 wining an out right majority. with the other 2 focusing much of there time, money and effort in 12 or so states, there are plenty that will be ignored, and he can appeal to Dems in Republican states to stop Trump in that state and Republicans in Dem states to stop Hilary,

    4) if no candidate has 270 ECVs then it foes to the house of congress, where I believe there are sufficient Libertarian leaning Republicans, to team up with the Democrats and nominate Johnson as preferable to Trump.

    Its still a long shot, but better than 430 to 1! and more to the point I would much rather be cheering his victory than ether Trump or Hillary!
    Would be great to have a Librarian Party president, the best news libraries have had in ages!
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    "...most officers were kept behind the lines"

    I would be very interested to see some figures to back up that assertion, Mr. L.

    I do not have figures to hand. The problem in WW1 was that generals kept visiting the front lines and getting killed (and in fact, officers were more likely to be killed than ordinary soldiers). By the end of the war, they'd been largely stopped from doing this.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,240
    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Et voila

    Sarkozy wins the election?

    @NicolasSarkozy 25m25 minutes ago View translation
    Je souhaite que les préfets soient autorisés à fermer immédiatement tout lieu de culte ayant un lien avec le salafisme #NS20H

    He is proposing to close all Salafist places right?
    So my schoolboy French tells me. Could be wrong.
    It's roughly what google translate says too: "I hope that the prefects are authorized to immediately close any place of worship Related Salafism"

    But it won't win Sarkozy the election. It won't even win him the nomination unless Juppe does or says something stupid, which isn't his style.
    Marine Le Pen must look ever more likely. Every terrorist attack pushes voters to the strongest response, and that's always going to be Le Pen.
    I have a piece on the French presidential written for when Mike can find time among everything else!

    To cut a long story short, her odds are far too short at the moment. She'll lose to everyone except Hollande (more black swans permitting), and Hollande is unlikely to make the second round.
    How funny, I've been meaning to write one too!

    Basically, Juppe will be the Les Republicains candidate, beating Sarkozy by 2:1 in the second round. Bayrou will not stand if Juppe is the LR candidate, and so he'll top the first round on perhaps 35%, against 30% for Le Pen. And Juppe walks the second round.

    His odds are far too long, hers too short.

    And people forget how poorly the FN performed in second rounds in the last 18 months - even after topping the polls in the first rounds. They still haven't become transfer friendly, and probably won't be until Marion Marechel Le Pen takes over the leadership from Marine.
    On present trends in France I think Sarkozy could win the LR nomination, remember it is the rightwing party base who are most likely to turn out
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,680
    Moses_ said:

    Is there a special badge you get for being insulted here by Sean, or do I have to commission a special T shirt?

    That's not a true SeanT insult trust me. Sean has mellowed slightly but some years ago they were eye wateringly withering but also funny.

    You are yet to be on the end of one of those.......
    Yes. He called me a ridiculous gargoyle. I had the distinct impression he was 'going easy' on me. For which I'm most grateful.
This discussion has been closed.