Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Trump is treating the campaign as if he were doing a deal. That isn't merely self-descriptive bluster. I say this after having read his book The Art of the Deal and a statement by one of his campaign's senior communications people that he takes a position out to the side and then comes towards the middle. Sure, the move towards the middle applies to both candidates at this stage, but Trump's style is highly specific.
Might he treat the battle too much as if it were a deal? In business he also puts a lot on being willing to walk away, not needing the deal as much as the other party. He's going to make voters "need" him, and he has already made a lot of ground in that respect.
So I was musing on whether he might threaten to pull out before getting stuck back in and storming over the finishing line. If anyone might do that, it's him.
Others have suggested the following scenarios:
* he withdraws after the people vote but before the electoral college votes, leaving the EC to choose who they like, but as usual if nobody gets 270 votes then it will go to the House of Representatives with one vote per state;
* he withdraws after the EC votes but before the EC vote is counted (on 6 January), in which case I am not sure what happens;
* he withdraws after the EC vote is counted, leaving Mike Pence to become president.
I don't think any of those scenarios is likely. But I do think there's a sizeable possibility that at a certain stage he may use the tactic of threatening to walk away. The other party in the "deal" is the US people.
He completely outplayed the other Republican candidates and is likely to outplay Clinton even if her logo is better. Maybe he'll update his.
I've invested in Trump at Betfair at an overall price of 3.89, and I'm kicking myself I didn't take some of the £40K available at 4. His price is now 3.45.
Facebook employees had the right idea with "all lives matter " slogan. The bosses rather disgracefully stopped them.
I gather 7 police officers have been killed by assault rifles in the last week alone. Murdering those who uphold the law is a very dangerous and divisive game. For those in crime ridden communities - it just encourages officers to stay clear of them.
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.
Facebook employees had the right idea with "all lives matter " slogan. The bosses rather disgracefully stopped them.
I gather 7 police officers have been killed by assault rifles in the last week alone. Murdering those who uphold the law is a very dangerous and divisive game. For those in crime ridden communities - it just encourages officers to stay clear of them.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Clinton 47 .. Trump 43 - ABC Clinton 46 .. Trump 41 - NBC/WSJ Clinton 49 .. Trump 42 - ORC/CNN
Virginia .. Ohio .. Iowa .. Michigan
VA - Clinton 39 .. Trump 39 - Hampton OH - Clinton 44 .. Trump 40 -YouGov/CBS IA - Clinton 39 .. Trump 40 - YouGov/CBS MI - Clinton 42 .. Trump 39 - YouGov/CBS
Eh, what can I expect from the very right-wing branch of PB?
If you think such views are "very right-wing" you'll be horrified if you ever do come across some genuinely very right-wing views.
I do think such views are very right wing. Two PBers (who I'd consider to be moderates/centrists) don't seem to be taking such a one-sided view of things.
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.
BLM are a dangerous agit prop Black Poweresque movement that aren't helping anything. And pandering to them is even worse.
When an organisation encourages through rhetoric/gets approval from politicians the planned murder of law officers - it deserves NOTHING but condemnation. You'd never defend white supremacists killing police offices - what's the difference?
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
In many day to day little ways the US reminds me of Apartheid South africa.
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.
BLM are a dangerous agit prop Black Poweresque movement that aren't helping anything. And pandering to them is even worse.
When an organisation encourages through rhetoric/gets approval from politicians the planned murder of law officers - it deserves NOTHING but condemnation. You'd never defend white supremacists killing police offices - what's the difference?
You need to factor in history and the oppression of black people. I guess comments like this from someone like you is hardly surprising.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
Facebook employees had the right idea with "all lives matter " slogan. The bosses rather disgracefully stopped them.
I gather 7 police officers have been killed by assault rifles in the last week alone. Murdering those who uphold the law is a very dangerous and divisive game. For those in crime ridden communities - it just encourages officers to stay clear of them.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
I can't place my digits on the data - but more whites are shot by cops than blacks. The stoking of racial divides drives me bonkers. It's been getting worse for ages and bizarrely under Obama it's a lot more pronounced.
I particularly detest those in the UK trying to drag it over here.
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.
BLM are a dangerous agit prop Black Poweresque movement that aren't helping anything. And pandering to them is even worse.
When an organisation encourages through rhetoric/gets approval from politicians the planned murder of law officers - it deserves NOTHING but condemnation. You'd never defend white supremacists killing police offices - what's the difference?
BLM were not responsible for the last attack, and we do not know yet that they are responsible for this one. We don't even know if the killer here in this situation is Black.
White Supremacists believe that white people are the superior race. Those involved in BLM do not believe in racial superiority. There's your difference.
BLM are giving Black people in America a voice to speak out about what is clearly a strained relationship between them and law enforcement.
Okay. Now trying to explain cricket to the Ukrainian in-laws.
A game that can last five days and end in a draw?
Could try this....
You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.
When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!
Trump is treating the campaign as if he were doing a deal. That isn't merely self-descriptive bluster. I say this after having read his book The Art of the Deal and a statement by one of his campaign's senior communications people that he takes a position out to the side and then comes towards the middle. Sure, the move towards the middle applies to both candidates at this stage, but Trump's style is highly specific.
Might he treat the battle too much as if it were a deal? In business he also puts a lot on being willing to walk away, not needing the deal as much as the other party. He's going to make voters "need" him, and he has already made a lot of ground in that respect.
So I was musing on whether he might threaten to pull out before getting stuck back in and storming over the finishing line. If anyone might do that, it's him.
Others have suggested the following scenarios:
* he withdraws after the people vote but before the electoral college votes, leaving the EC to choose who they like, but as usual if nobody gets 270 votes then it will go to the House of Representatives with one vote per state;
* he withdraws after the EC votes but before the EC vote is counted (on 6 January), in which case I am not sure what happens;
* he withdraws after the EC vote is counted, leaving Mike Pence to become president.
I don't think any of those scenarios is likely. But I do think there's a sizeable possibility that at a certain stage he may use the tactic of threatening to walk away. The other party in the "deal" is the US people.
He completely outplayed the other Republican candidates and is likely to outplay Clinton even if her logo is better. Maybe he'll update his.
I've invested in Trump at Betfair at an overall price of 3.89, and I'm kicking myself I didn't take some of the £40K available at 4. His price is now 3.45.
We've just had Trump's VP pick; now we have the GOP convention this coming week, followed by Hillary's VP pick and the Democrat convention next week. Without checking historical records (so DYOR) I'd expect this to be a good fortnight for trading.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
I agree.
I think it's time all cops wore body cameras. We need to get confidence in the police back.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
The ability of an individual to get a device the size of a matchbox out of his pocket and publish words and pictures instantly to the entire world is as revolutionary as the printing press and just as dangerous to the world order as the printing press was in 1520.
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.
Apologies. I was disagreeing with Plato (always a matter of personal regret).
I don't like some of the BLM rhetoric, however if there were prima facie evidence that TG people were being executed by cops, I daresay I'd be getting pretty exercised myself. As I say, a symptom of the underlying problem .
Trump is treating the campaign as if he were doing a deal. That isn't merely self-descriptive bluster. I say this after having read his book The Art of the Deal and a statement by one of his campaign's senior communications people that he takes a position out to the side and then comes towards the middle. Sure, the move towards the middle applies to both candidates at this stage, but Trump's style is highly specific.
Might he treat the battle too much as if it were a deal? In business he also puts a lot on being willing to walk away, not needing the deal as much as the other party. He's going to make voters "need" him, and he has already made a lot of ground in that respect.
So I was musing on whether he might threaten to pull out before getting stuck back in and storming over the finishing line. If anyone might do that, it's him.
Others have suggested the following scenarios:
* he withdraws after the people vote but before the electoral college votes, leaving the EC to choose who they like, but as usual if nobody gets 270 votes then it will go to the House of Representatives with one vote per state;
* he withdraws after the EC votes but before the EC vote is counted (on 6 January), in which case I am not sure what happens;
* he withdraws after the EC vote is counted, leaving Mike Pence to become president.
I don't think any of those scenarios is likely. But I do think there's a sizeable possibility that at a certain stage he may use the tactic of threatening to walk away. The other party in the "deal" is the US people.
He completely outplayed the other Republican candidates and is likely to outplay Clinton even if her logo is better. Maybe he'll update his.
I've invested in Trump at Betfair at an overall price of 3.89, and I'm kicking myself I didn't take some of the £40K available at 4. His price is now 3.45.
We've just had Trump's VP pick; now we have the GOP convention this coming week, followed by Hillary's VP pick and the Democrat convention next week. Without checking historical records (so DYOR) I'd expect this to be a good fortnight for trading.
Normally, you'd buy the Republicans now, swap it out for the Democrats in a week, and the remember to balance your book a week after...
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.
BLM are a dangerous agit prop Black Poweresque movement that aren't helping anything. And pandering to them is even worse.
When an organisation encourages through rhetoric/gets approval from politicians the planned murder of law officers - it deserves NOTHING but condemnation. You'd never defend white supremacists killing police offices - what's the difference?
BLM were not responsible for the last attack, and we do not know yet that they are responsible for this one. We don't even know if the killer here in this situation is Black.
White Supremacists believe that white people are the superior race. Those involved in BLM do not believe in racial superiority. There's your difference.
BLM are giving Black people in America a voice to speak out about what is clearly a strained relationship between them a law enforcement.
29 police officers have been killed on duty this year already. I think your argument is very thin here. WTF has white supremacists killing cops somehow different to blacks deliberately killing white cops?
Okay. Now trying to explain cricket to the Ukrainian in-laws.
A game that can last five days and end in a draw?
Could try this....
You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.
When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.
BLM are a dangerous agit prop Black Poweresque movement that aren't helping anything. And pandering to them is even worse.
When an organisation encourages through rhetoric/gets approval from politicians the planned murder of law officers - it deserves NOTHING but condemnation. You'd never defend white supremacists killing police offices - what's the difference?
You need to factor in history and the oppression of black people. I guess comments like this from someone like you is hardly surprising.
If an organization called white lives matter existed it would, rightly, be called racist.
If you look at the stats the biggest killer of blacks by firearms are other blacks.
So if black lives truly matter, that is who should be being targeted.
With regards to the police, law and order matters. It should make no difference the race of the individual who is wrongly killed by the police.
What should and does matter is they were wrongly killed.
Before anybody says it doesn't impact whites look up the stats.
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.
BLM are a dangerous agit prop Black Poweresque movement that aren't helping anything. And pandering to them is even worse.
When an organisation encourages through rhetoric/gets approval from politicians the planned murder of law officers - it deserves NOTHING but condemnation. You'd never defend white supremacists killing police offices - what's the difference?
BLM were not responsible for the last attack, and we do not know yet that they are responsible for this one. We don't even know if the killer here in this situation is Black.
White Supremacists believe that white people are the superior race. Those involved in BLM do not believe in racial superiority. There's your difference.
BLM are giving Black people in America a voice to speak out about what is clearly a strained relationship between them and law enforcement.
Sadly there is a minority of utterly racist blacks who do believe they are the superior race - it is just that they have little opportunity to put their ideas into practice (at least outside Zimbabwe)
My concern with what has gone on is that the big cases that the media have focused on have when investigatee found the police did nothing wrong & yet the media still bring them up eg Ferguson. In comparison the guy selling loosies or the white woman in Idaho with a knife (by not attacking anybody) rarely get a mention.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
The ability of an individual to get a device the size of a matchbox out of his pocket and publish words and pictures instantly to the entire world is as revolutionary as the printing press and just as dangerous to the world order as the printing press was in 1520.
I think that's spot on.
What's scary is the extent to which police accounts of incidents seem to bear no relation to video footage. It's casting incredible levels of doubt on years of police behaviour.
Facebook employees had the right idea with "all lives matter " slogan. The bosses rather disgracefully stopped them.
I gather 7 police officers have been killed by assault rifles in the last week alone. Murdering those who uphold the law is a very dangerous and divisive game. For those in crime ridden communities - it just encourages officers to stay clear of them.
That's what they want though. In fact to all intents and purposes that's what they already have in some areas.
I can't place my digits on the data - but more whites are shot by cops than blacks.
That statistic comes from research at the City University of New York, reported here. The data was taken from news reports. Using what methodology, I don't know. The finding was that between May 2013 and April 2015 49% of those killed by police officers were non-Hispanic white, and 30% black. 25% of the data collected didn't specify the killed person's "race". Black people are about 12% of the US population, and non-Hispanic white people about 63%, so the figures say a randomly chosen black person is more than three times more likely to get killed by the police than a randomly chosen white person.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
The ability of an individual to get a device the size of a matchbox out of his pocket and publish words and pictures instantly to the entire world is as revolutionary as the printing press and just as dangerous to the world order as the printing press was in 1520.
I think that's spot on.
What's scary is the extent to which police accounts of incidents seem to bear no relation to video footage. It's casting incredible levels of doubt on years of police behaviour.
Yes, PACE was a start but body cameras would soon out the bullies and thugs that undoubtably still remain and in some cases flourish. If Thameslink on train fares inspectors can wear them why cant the police?
29 police officers have been killed on duty this year already. I think your argument is very thin here. WTF has white supremacists killing cops somehow different to blacks deliberately killing white cops?
- Are all 29 police officers death caused by Black killers? - From your previous post you appeared to assert that BLM were behind the planned murdering of police officers. I was refuting that. The man in Dallas who murdered police officers was not a part of BLM. We don't know anything about the killer in situation so far. You appear to be assuming Black killer = BLM associate. - I feel that the deaths of police officers in the US are truly terrible. This loss of life solves nothing and causes more pain, hurt and anger. However, I equally believe that the deaths of Alton Sterling, Philando Castile, Sandra Bland, and many more are also terrible and I totally understand the anger in the Black community as a result of these deaths.
My concern with what has gone on is that the big cases that the media have focused on have when investigatee found the police did nothing wrong & yet the media still bring them up eg Ferguson. In comparison the guy selling loosies or the white woman in Idaho with a knife (by not attacking anybody) rarely get a mention.
I hold the media in destain in this regard - they're very partial in their reporting and hence the whole grievance agenda runs away with itself. And ends up here.
The only good thing about cop killers is that they're usually dead shortly afterwards either SBC or shoot themselves.
Eh, what can I expect from the very right-wing branch of PB?
If you think such views are "very right-wing" you'll be horrified if you ever do come across some genuinely very right-wing views.
I do think such views are very right wing. Two PBers (who I'd consider to be moderates/centrists) don't seem to be taking such a one-sided view of things.
You're taking a one sided view of things, why is it alright for you, but no one else?
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
The ability of an individual to get a device the size of a matchbox out of his pocket and publish words and pictures instantly to the entire world is as revolutionary as the printing press and just as dangerous to the world order as the printing press was in 1520.
I think that's spot on.
What's scary is the extent to which police accounts of incidents seem to bear no relation to video footage. It's casting incredible levels of doubt on years of police behaviour.
Yes, what's all the more worrying is that the existence of smart phones must have a restraining effect on police behaviour. So, for example, God only knows what was the real truth of Orgreave.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
The ability of an individual to get a device the size of a matchbox out of his pocket and publish words and pictures instantly to the entire world is as revolutionary as the printing press and just as dangerous to the world order as the printing press was in 1520.
I think that's spot on.
What's scary is the extent to which police accounts of incidents seem to bear no relation to video footage. It's casting incredible levels of doubt on years of police behaviour.
Yes, what's all the more worrying is that the existence of smart phones must have a restraining effect on police behaviour. So, for example, God only knows what was the real truth of Orgreave.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
The ability of an individual to get a device the size of a matchbox out of his pocket and publish words and pictures instantly to the entire world is as revolutionary as the printing press and just as dangerous to the world order as the printing press was in 1520.
I think that's spot on.
What's scary is the extent to which police accounts of incidents seem to bear no relation to video footage. It's casting incredible levels of doubt on years of police behaviour.
Yes, PACE was a start but body cameras would soon out the bullies and thugs that undoubtably still remain and in some cases flourish. If Thameslink on train fares inspectors can wear them why cant the police?
Body cameras are also effective at providing convincing evidence of assaults on police officers.
@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
The ability of an individual to get a device the size of a matchbox out of his pocket and publish words and pictures instantly to the entire world is as revolutionary as the printing press and just as dangerous to the world order as the printing press was in 1520.
I think that's spot on.
What's scary is the extent to which police accounts of incidents seem to bear no relation to video footage. It's casting incredible levels of doubt on years of police behaviour.
Yes, PACE was a start but body cameras would soon out the bullies and thugs that undoubtably still remain and in some cases flourish. If Thameslink on train fares inspectors can wear them why cant the police?
Body cameras are also effective at providing convincing evidence of assaults on police officers.
My concern with what has gone on is that the big cases that the media have focused on have when investigatee found the police did nothing wrong & yet the media still bring them up eg Ferguson. In comparison the guy selling loosies or the white woman in Idaho with a knife (by not attacking anybody) rarely get a mention.
The initial explanation(s) in the media for almost any violent or controversial event are almost always wrong. When the facts emerge days or weeks later it is often already too late to cool things down, and you can never fully correct misapprehensions that have spread widely.
Social media amplifies this effect with the easy dissemination of erroneous and misleading information, and by it's very nature social media is often selective and truncated which in itself causes problems as people only see a small part of the bigger picture.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
The ability of an individual to get a device the size of a matchbox out of his pocket and publish words and pictures instantly to the entire world is as revolutionary as the printing press and just as dangerous to the world order as the printing press was in 1520.
I think that's spot on.
What's scary is the extent to which police accounts of incidents seem to bear no relation to video footage. It's casting incredible levels of doubt on years of police behaviour.
Yes, PACE was a start but body cameras would soon out the bullies and thugs that undoubtably still remain and in some cases flourish. If Thameslink on train fares inspectors can wear them why cant the police?
Most police I know, quite a few, would love body cams, as it would cut down on the thousands and thousands of hours spent investigating spurious complaints.
I think it would come as a bit of a shock the abuse police are now expected to endure with no comeback. People expect to be able to shout and swear at the police with no consequences. Something that 20 years ago would not have happened.
I can't place my digits on the data - but more whites are shot by cops than blacks.
That statistic comes from research at the City University of New York, reported here. The data was taken from news reports. Using what methodology, I don't know. The finding was that between May 2013 and April 2015 49% of those killed by police officers were non-Hispanic white, and 30% black. 25% of the data collected didn't specify the killed person's "race". Black people are about 12% of the US population, and non-Hispanic white people about 63%, so the figures say a randomly chosen black person is more than three times more likely to get killed by the police than a randomly chosen white person.
There's a problem.
However, people who get shot are mostly not randomly chosen. One has to separate out those cases where the police were entitled to shoot, from those where they aren't.
Eh, what can I expect from the very right-wing branch of PB?
If you think such views are "very right-wing" you'll be horrified if you ever do come across some genuinely very right-wing views.
I do think such views are very right wing. Two PBers (who I'd consider to be moderates/centrists) don't seem to be taking such a one-sided view of things.
You're taking a one sided view of things, why is it alright for you, but no one else?
I don't feel that I'm taking a one-sided view at all. I feel that the deaths of police officers are terrible, and my thoughts and prayers go out to their families. I also feel that the deaths of many black people in the US at the hands of law enforcement are terrible, and are deeply regretful. While some on here seem to only be mourning the deaths of police officers and not Alton Sterling, Philando Castile etc.
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
The ability of an individual to get a device the size of a matchbox out of his pocket and publish words and pictures instantly to the entire world is as revolutionary as the printing press and just as dangerous to the world order as the printing press was in 1520.
I think that's spot on.
What's scary is the extent to which police accounts of incidents seem to bear no relation to video footage. It's casting incredible levels of doubt on years of police behaviour.
Yes, PACE was a start but body cameras would soon out the bullies and thugs that undoubtably still remain and in some cases flourish. If Thameslink on train fares inspectors can wear them why cant the police?
Most police I know, quite a few, would love body cams, as it would cut down on the thousands and thousands of hours spent investigating spurious complaints.
I think it would come as a bit of a shock the abuse police are now expected to endure with no comeback. People expect to be able to shout and swear at the police with no consequences. Something that 20 years ago would not have happened.
So bring on the body cams.
Agreed 100%. It's for the protection of police, as well as everyone else.
As an aside, I think it's important that those who wield deadly arms on behalf of the state are beyond reproach.
My concern with what has gone on is that the big cases that the media have focused on have when investigatee found the police did nothing wrong & yet the media still bring them up eg Ferguson. In comparison the guy selling loosies or the white woman in Idaho with a knife (by not attacking anybody) rarely get a mention.
The initial explanation(s) in the media for almost any violent or controversial event are almost always wrong. When the facts emerge days or weeks later it is often already too late to cool things down, and you can never fully correct misapprehensions that have spread widely.
Social media amplifies this effect with the easy dissemination of erroneous and misleading information, and by it's very nature social media is often selective and truncated which in itself causes problems as people only see a small part of the bigger picture.
The media reaction to Ferguson investigation was disgraceful, despite all the evidence being released , the hands up claim totally debunked as made up by people who never saw the incident etc, at the press conference they were still blaming the cops.
@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
I notice you have skirted nicely around the fact that the vast majority of blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. If you genuinely want to save black lives that's where you need to start.
This match is test cricket at its absolute best. It's not all biff-bang-wallop, but it's completely engaging; every ball is riveting. Can't wait until Stokes and Woakes are playing in the same England team.
Miss Plato, as typos go, there are worse. [When I catch a your/you're or their/there/they're mistake in my stuff I usually append a note to cut my hands off after correcting it ].
I think @John_M has this right: the last year has seen some terrible behaviour by cops in the US, caught on smartphones. I think it's creating a terrible feedback loop.
Nonetheless, exposing the cops' behaviour is necessary if it's to be dealt with.
The ability of an individual to get a device the size of a matchbox out of his pocket and publish words and pictures instantly to the entire world is as revolutionary as the printing press and just as dangerous to the world order as the printing press was in 1520.
I think that's spot on.
What's scary is the extent to which police accounts of incidents seem to bear no relation to video footage. It's casting incredible levels of doubt on years of police behaviour.
Yes, PACE was a start but body cameras would soon out the bullies and thugs that undoubtably still remain and in some cases flourish. If Thameslink on train fares inspectors can wear them why cant the police?
Body cameras are also effective at providing convincing evidence of assaults on police officers.
What was so awful about Dallas, is that their stats are superb. The police chief's own son was killed on duty in a previous incident. Of all the places to target - Dallas wasn't it.
@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
I notice you have skirted nicely around the fact that the vast majority of blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. If you genuinely want to save black lives that's where you need to start.
What's your opinion on that?
I did not skirt around that issue. I specifically addressed that issue in the bit in bold.
Here it is again:
Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.
BLM are a dangerous agit prop Black Poweresque movement that aren't helping anything. And pandering to them is even worse.
When an organisation encourages through rhetoric/gets approval from politicians the planned murder of law officers - it deserves NOTHING but condemnation. You'd never defend white supremacists killing police offices - what's the difference?
It kind of depends on the political structure of the country you are in.
If you're in a liberal European democracy you work by proposing reasonable policies and building consensus.
America is not a liberal democracy, consensus does not work. It works by staking opposing positions and finding a common compromise which (hopefully) is somewhere near the reasonable policies you get by consensus building.
A good example is the utter failure of the anti-gun lobby. By proposing reasonable restriction and getting stone-walled nothing changes. However, if they started from the position of revoking the Second Amendment, they would be in a much stronger position to get actual change.
The UK is somewhere in the middle, sometimes working on a consensual basis, sometimes on a compromise.
This match is test cricket at its absolute best. It's not all biff-bang-wallop, but it's completely engaging; every ball is riveting. Can't wait until Stokes and Woakes are playing in the same England team.
Pakistan are still favourites... but at 220-6? Maybe England become favourite - if we get there
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.
One has to try to separate those cases where the police were entitled to shoot (and quite often, the police themselves are members of minority groups) from those where they weren't. I'm not convinced BLM does that.
@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
I notice you have skirted nicely around the fact that the vast majority of blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. If you genuinely want to save black lives that's where you need to start.
What's your opinion on that?
With respect, while black-on-black murders are a tragedy, they are a separate tragedy.
The issue at hand is simple; are police officers (who are an arm of the State) almost routinely shooting black suspects? Based on some of the footage we've seen, the answer is yes. Simply pointing at an even worse situation is what-aboutery of the first order.
Citizens have collectively outsourced personal defence to the State. It's an implicit contract. If the State can be shown to be violating that contract it is not going to end well.
@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
I notice you have skirted nicely around the fact that the vast majority of blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. If you genuinely want to save black lives that's where you need to start.
What's your opinion on that?
I did not skirt around that issue. I specifically addressed that issue in the bit in bold.
Here it is again:
Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
There is no bit in bold rendered on my tablet. So help me out what is your opinion on dealing with the horrific rates of black on black murder.
This match is test cricket at its absolute best. It's not all biff-bang-wallop, but it's completely engaging; every ball is riveting. Can't wait until Stokes and Woakes are playing in the same England team.
Pakistan are still favourites... but at 220-6? Maybe England become favourite - if we get there
Cricviz has it 50/50....I still have Pakistan as favourites.
@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
I notice you have skirted nicely around the fact that the vast majority of blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. If you genuinely want to save black lives that's where you need to start.
What's your opinion on that?
I did not skirt around that issue. I specifically addressed that issue in the bit in bold.
Here it is again:
Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
There is no bit in bold rendered on my tablet. So help me out what is your opinion on dealing with the horrific rates of black on black murder.
I put the BIB in the post you quoted from me. I also reiterated what I said under 'Here it is again'.
The media reaction to Ferguson investigation was disgraceful, despite all the evidence being released , the hands up claim totally debunked as made up by people who never saw the incident etc, at the press conference they were still blaming the cops.
It will never be corrected, the initial story will circulate, and be believed to be the true story by those with an agenda or who are impervious to having their views corrected. Even if the media was highly responsible when reporting we now live in a world where any random idiot can create the prevailing narrative in a matter of seconds.
Yup. Black Lives Matter and the political pandering to them isn't helping either.
Gunman is still at large, ten shots fired
I knew you'd blame BLM.
I don't understand that view. BLM is a symptom, not a cause. Smartphones are showing US police in an extremely unpleasant light. It's no wonder there's so much anger.
Is it my view you don't understand (or those who oppose BLM)? From what I can see, you are critical of the US police as well. BLM exists because in America all lives are not seeing as mattering, unfortunately. Thus, people say Black Lives Matter to reiterate what should be true: that in 2016 Black Lives do matter, just as much as anyone else does. It is a shame so many people in America do not believe that Black Lives do matter.
BLM are a dangerous agit prop Black Poweresque movement that aren't helping anything. And pandering to them is even worse.
When an organisation encourages through rhetoric/gets approval from politicians the planned murder of law officers - it deserves NOTHING but condemnation. You'd never defend white supremacists killing police offices - what's the difference?
Very true, nothing justifies anyone going out and shooting innocent police officers, anyone who thinks that is acceptable is warped in the extreme, no matter what grievance they nurture.
@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
I notice you have skirted nicely around the fact that the vast majority of blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. If you genuinely want to save black lives that's where you need to start.
What's your opinion on that?
I did not skirt around that issue. I specifically addressed that issue in the bit in bold.
Here it is again:
Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
There is no bit in bold rendered on my tablet. So help me out what is your opinion on dealing with the horrific rates of black on black murder.
I put the BIB in the post you quoted from me. I also reiterated what I said under 'Here it is again'.
In what way does that address the fact that the vast majority of black deaths are at the hands of another blacks and if you really believe black lives matter that should be addressed?
@saddened The reason why it would be called racist is because white lives already matter. There is not a history of an historical oppression of white people on the grounds of race in the Western world. White people have never been oppressed in the Western world because they are White. By contrast, Black people have. So there is already a different context. There is a huge history in the US of Black lives not mattering - that is why it is important to reaffirm what should be true: that Black Lives do matter - just as much as any other life. Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
I notice you have skirted nicely around the fact that the vast majority of blacks who are murdered are murdered by other blacks. If you genuinely want to save black lives that's where you need to start.
What's your opinion on that?
I did not skirt around that issue. I specifically addressed that issue in the bit in bold.
Here it is again:
Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
There is no bit in bold rendered on my tablet. So help me out what is your opinion on dealing with the horrific rates of black on black murder.
I put the BIB in the post you quoted from me. I also reiterated what I said under 'Here it is again'.
In what way does that address the fact that the vast majority of black deaths are at the hands of another blacks and if you really believe black lives matter that should be addressed?
You don't understand. I'll direct you to @John_M's post. He has explained things far more eloquently than me.
Comments
Large partisan divide among whites in views of #BlackLivesMatter movement https://t.co/OdOPLqlgih https://t.co/AI4jDJas8x
Might he treat the battle too much as if it were a deal? In business he also puts a lot on being willing to walk away, not needing the deal as much as the other party. He's going to make voters "need" him, and he has already made a lot of ground in that respect.
So I was musing on whether he might threaten to pull out before getting stuck back in and storming over the finishing line. If anyone might do that, it's him.
Others have suggested the following scenarios:
* he withdraws after the people vote but before the electoral college votes, leaving the EC to choose who they like, but as usual if nobody gets 270 votes then it will go to the House of Representatives with one vote per state;
* he withdraws after the EC votes but before the EC vote is counted (on 6 January), in which case I am not sure what happens;
* he withdraws after the EC vote is counted, leaving Mike Pence to become president.
I don't think any of those scenarios is likely. But I do think there's a sizeable possibility that at a certain stage he may use the tactic of threatening to walk away. The other party in the "deal" is the US people.
He completely outplayed the other Republican candidates and is likely to outplay Clinton even if her logo is better. Maybe he'll update his.
I've invested in Trump at Betfair at an overall price of 3.89, and I'm kicking myself I didn't take some of the £40K available at 4. His price is now 3.45.
Edit: Betfair have £47m matched, more than I've ever seen on a cricket match before. Please hope the match is genuine.
Clinton 47 .. Trump 43 - ABC
Clinton 46 .. Trump 41 - NBC/WSJ
Clinton 49 .. Trump 42 - ORC/CNN
Virginia .. Ohio .. Iowa .. Michigan
VA - Clinton 39 .. Trump 39 - Hampton
OH - Clinton 44 .. Trump 40 -YouGov/CBS
IA - Clinton 39 .. Trump 40 - YouGov/CBS
MI - Clinton 42 .. Trump 39 - YouGov/CBS
When an organisation encourages through rhetoric/gets approval from politicians the planned murder of law officers - it deserves NOTHING but condemnation. You'd never defend white supremacists killing police offices - what's the difference?
I particularly detest those in the UK trying to drag it over here.
White Supremacists believe that white people are the superior race. Those involved in BLM do not believe in racial superiority. There's your difference.
BLM are giving Black people in America a voice to speak out about what is clearly a strained relationship between them and law enforcement.
You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.
When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!
I think it's time all cops wore body cameras. We need to get confidence in the police back.
I don't like some of the BLM rhetoric, however if there were prima facie evidence that TG people were being executed by cops, I daresay I'd be getting pretty exercised myself. As I say, a symptom of the underlying problem .
But are things normal in Trump land?
If you look at the stats the biggest killer of blacks by firearms are other blacks.
So if black lives truly matter, that is who should be being targeted.
With regards to the police, law and order matters. It should make no difference the race of the individual who is wrongly killed by the police.
What should and does matter is they were wrongly killed.
Before anybody says it doesn't impact whites look up the stats.
What's scary is the extent to which police accounts of incidents seem to bear no relation to video footage. It's casting incredible levels of doubt on years of police behaviour.
There's a problem.
- From your previous post you appeared to assert that BLM were behind the planned murdering of police officers. I was refuting that. The man in Dallas who murdered police officers was not a part of BLM. We don't know anything about the killer in situation so far. You appear to be assuming Black killer = BLM associate.
- I feel that the deaths of police officers in the US are truly terrible. This loss of life solves nothing and causes more pain, hurt and anger. However, I equally believe that the deaths of Alton Sterling, Philando Castile, Sandra Bland, and many more are also terrible and I totally understand the anger in the Black community as a result of these deaths.
The only good thing about cop killers is that they're usually dead shortly afterwards either SBC or shoot themselves.
Surely all over now
Sorry to be pedantic, but we are on pedanticbetting.com.
50 partnership and two-thirds of the way there!
@ThreeQuidder BLM does not imply other lives are less important that others. Saying BLM does not mean others don't.
Social media amplifies this effect with the easy dissemination of erroneous and misleading information, and by it's very nature social media is often selective and truncated which in itself causes problems as people only see a small part of the bigger picture.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/07/08/texas-black-lives-matter-protesters-called-killing-white-cops-2015/
I think it would come as a bit of a shock the abuse police are now expected to endure with no comeback. People expect to be able to shout and swear at the police with no consequences. Something that 20 years ago would not have happened.
So bring on the body cams.
It's for the protection of police, as well as everyone else.
As an aside, I think it's important that those who wield deadly arms on behalf of the state are beyond reproach.
7 officers have been shot. Three officers confirmed to have died as a result of their wounds.
What's your opinion on that?
Can't wait until Stokes and Woakes are playing in the same England team.
Here it is again:
Second of all, the issue is, is that in many of these incidents with law enforcement the victims do not get justice. While you can bet your bottom dollar that in situations of Black on Black crime the killer will be prosecuted, this does not happen in situations with law enforcement. Thus the anger at those situations.
If you're in a liberal European democracy you work by proposing reasonable policies and building consensus.
America is not a liberal democracy, consensus does not work. It works by staking opposing positions and finding a common compromise which (hopefully) is somewhere near the reasonable policies you get by consensus building.
A good example is the utter failure of the anti-gun lobby. By proposing reasonable restriction and getting stone-walled nothing changes. However, if they started from the position of revoking the Second Amendment, they would be in a much stronger position to get actual change.
The UK is somewhere in the middle, sometimes working on a consensual basis, sometimes on a compromise.
The issue at hand is simple; are police officers (who are an arm of the State) almost routinely shooting black suspects? Based on some of the footage we've seen, the answer is yes. Simply pointing at an even worse situation is what-aboutery of the first order.
Citizens have collectively outsourced personal defence to the State. It's an implicit contract. If the State can be shown to be violating that contract it is not going to end well.
But then again, putting the final deal to the public seems quite democratic-y.
But we can't continue to have referendums until we all agree on the Brexit version we prefer; it would take decades.
least oneTWO other shooters is still at large.