What do we think? Is this supported by the West and if so, why? ISIS? Blackmailing Europe over the migrant crisis? Might seem like a cunning move but is Erdogan unpopular? What if an increasingly Islamist Turkey population turned inextricably against the west.
The interests of France, America and Russia are aligned.
It is hard to think this is not backed in advanced by the West and Russia.
That's not really the case. Changes made to rules for director only firms. Have you used the tpr employer duties checker?
Yep, as soon as you have two directors you have to go through the entire nonsense, with threats at every stage saying you're committing a criminal offence if you get the slightest detail of the charade wrong.
No you don't. You can have lots of directors not who have to be auto enrolled provided they don't hav a contract of employment. Most tiny firms don't. Even if someone does provided they are taking usual modest salary and mainly dividends then won't usually breach the threshold in pay reference periods so not an eligible jobholder. In helping lots of these and it's just completing a declaration of compliance to the tpr and being aware of responsibility should a worker become an eligible jobholder. Really not that big a hassle for these husband wife businesses.
What do we think? Is this supported by the West and if so, why? ISIS? Blackmailing Europe over the migrant crisis? Might seem like a cunning move but is Erdogan unpopular? What if an increasingly Islamist Turkey population turned inextricably against the west.
The interests of France, America and Russia are aligned.
It is hard to think this is not backed in advanced by the West and Russia.
Although it seems the UK is out of the loop.
It seems pretty hard to concluded who is in or out of the loop right now, and even harder to suggest with any certainty that France is in on it and we're not.
We need to know how much of the Army is backing the coup. If this isn't resolved quickly this will descend into fully fledged war.
Seems like pretty much all of it tbh. Only he police and Erdogan loyalists are in opposition IMO. The military seems united, they wouldn't have moved without that unity. That the senior generals have been locked away shows that.
NBC reporting that President Erdogan's asylum request has been rejected by the Germans, he is thought to be flying to London
Tell him to f##k off.
Allowing him asylum here would probably help resolve the situation quickly.
As was said upthread, the coup needs to succeed or fail quickly.
Yes, we should let him land on condition that he accepts defeat. Least bloodshed please.
Agree. I also find it a bit embarrassing that Germany isn't letting him in - firstly because they've let everyone else in, secondly because when he was in power they were silencing comedians for him. RUDE I call it.
No you don't. You can have lots of directors not who have to be auto enrolled provided they don't hav a contract of employment. Most tiny firms don't. Even if someone does provided they are taking usual modest salary and mainly dividends then won't usually breach the threshold in pay reference periods so not an eligible jobholder. In helping lots of these and it's just completing a declaration of compliance to the tpr and being aware of responsibility should a worker become an eligible jobholder. Really not that big a hassle for these husband wife businesses.
Sure, but we're not a husband and wife business, we're a proper company where the directors are definitely also employees. Like many other companies.
Mosques are urging people onto the street, this is may turn into a Muslims v Secularists civil war.
Only one winner in such a chaotic situation, I fear, and it isn't secularists.
I believe that the secularist troops in Turkey will NOT be the namby-pamby bleeding-heart liberals in Germany, France and the UK. When they know it's either us or them they will make dammed sure it is them.
Mosques are urging people onto the street, this is may turn into a Muslims v Secularists civil war.
Only one winner in such a chaotic situation, I fear, and it isn't secularists.
I believe that the secularist troops in Turkey will NOT be the namby-pamby bleeding-heart liberals in Germany, France and the UK. When they know it's either us or them they will make dammed sure it is them.
The key difference to normal scenarios is that one side is a secularist army, the other an islamic group of ex-civilians.
Military opening fire at Intelligence agencies. Looks like they are hitting Erdogan as hard as possible.
Making light of things being a coping mechanism, given they didn't see the coup coming, presumably, maybe the military should let the intelligence agencies keep advising Erdogan.
Are the Turkish military following the PLP playbook? The PLP were sure that Corbyn couldn't carry on with zero support from the MPs. The Turkish military were sure that Erdogan couldn't carry on with zero support from the army.
Are the Turkish military following the PLP playbook? The PLP were sure that Corbyn couldn't carry on with zero support from the MPs. The Turkish military were sure that Erdogan couldn't carry on with zero support from the army.
Maybe both were wrong...
I'm not so sure. People are probably going to disperse soon and the military will still hold the key parts of the nation's infrastructure.
From the comments on here, I wonder if people realise how pivotal the next few hours will be to the future stability and safety of the West.
If the Islamists win, the West is finished. Utterly finished.
I suspect that you're overriding the downside slightly. While I agree that the next 12 hours are extremely crucial, the result can be anywhere from a co-operative administration installed that will tackle the migrant crisis & ISIS to a hostile state on the door-step. If I was a western leader I'd be telling all assets to assist the coup however they can.
From the comments on here, I wonder if people realise how pivotal the next few hours will be to the future stability and safety of the West.
If the Islamists win, the West is finished. Utterly finished.
The West > Turkey.
The West has no John Sobieski. Islam is blocked from Europe by Turkey and has been for over 100 years.
That is ending if Erdogan wins. Hardcore, fundamentalist Islam will be 200 miles from the gates of Vienna. With an uncontrollable border letting anyone they want to let in.
No you don't. You can have lots of directors not who have to be auto enrolled provided they don't hav a contract of employment. Most tiny firms don't. Even if someone does provided they are taking usual modest salary and mainly dividends then won't usually breach the threshold in pay reference periods so not an eligible jobholder. In helping lots of these and it's just completing a declaration of compliance to the tpr and being aware of responsibility should a worker become an eligible jobholder. Really not that big a hassle for these husband wife businesses.
Sure, but we're not a husband and wife business, we're a proper company where the directors are definitely also employees. Like many other companies.
Tiny companies to me are that size. If you are talking 5 to 10 staff then you should be caught by AE if you don't have a scheme for genuine employee directors s And in fact why would you not just have a qwps already with all the tax advantages there are incl sal exchange for the company???
"The chief of staff of the military has not spoken yet and traditionally with Turkish coups you would expect the head of the military to be on TV taking command.”
Mosques are urging people onto the street, this is may turn into a Muslims v Secularists civil war.
Only one winner in such a chaotic situation, I fear, and it isn't secularists.
I believe that the secularist troops in Turkey will NOT be the namby-pamby bleeding-heart liberals in Germany, France and the UK. When they know it's either us or them they will make dammed sure it is them.
The key difference to normal scenarios is that one side is a secularist army, the other an islamic group of ex-civilians.
People who want to die for their beliefs should be given every assistance.
"The chief of staff of the military has not spoken yet and traditionally with Turkish coups you would expect the head of the military to be on TV taking command.”
"The chief of staff of the military has not spoken yet and traditionally with Turkish coups you would expect the head of the military to be on TV taking command.”
That's not really the case. Changes made to rules for director only firms. Have you used the tpr employer duties checker?
Yep, as soon as you have two directors you have to go through the entire nonsense, with threats at every stage saying you're committing a criminal offence if you get the slightest detail of the charade wrong.
Not been my experience at all. My company has two directors and all I had to do was sign a piece of paper to that effect and I am opted out. All sorted for me by my accountant in minutes.
I guess it could easily turn into a west vs east civil war.
Assuming the army is all behind the coup, they would surely have no difficulty securing Istanbul and the Mediterranean cities. As you say, the East may still fight them.
From the comments on here, I wonder if people realise how pivotal the next few hours will be to the future stability and safety of the West.
If the Islamists win, the West is finished. Utterly finished.
Don't be silly. If the military wins they are likely to revive the 'no problems with neighbours' policy and do very little. If Erdogan wins, he's similarly likely not to emerge from his hutch very often for a while. Neither scenario is devastating for 'The West'. But it won't be nice for the Turkish people, that's for sure.
I think the military need to talk to the police and ensure their safety and status so they drop support for Erdogan. If they can get the police on side in Ankara it's done.
Sky news giving a lot of airtime to a blatant Erdogan apologist.
She's an AKP member.
Should the D-notices not be issued already?
As far as I can tell from the coverage on Sky and the BBC, they are promoting the Erdogan message of getting people on the streets and claiming the coup may fail.
Tiny companies to me are that size. If you are talking 5 to 10 staff then you should be caught by AE if you don't have a scheme for genuine employee directors s And in fact why would you not just have a qwps already with all the tax advantages there are incl sal exchange for the company???
Of course, we have a small self-administered scheme, which we're perfectly happy with, and into which we pay far more than the auto-enrolment limits. But like most such schemes it's not compliant with the auto-enrolment rules.
Anyway - my point to Baroness Altman was a simple one. Why on earth did we have to go through the charade, knowing that it was a charade? Who was the charade supposed to protect? This is supposed to be a government dedicated to sweeping away nonsensical red-tape, and here was a completely unambiguous piece of nonsensical red-tape all ready to be cut out.
Sky news giving a lot of airtime to a blatant Erdogan apologist.
She's an AKP member.
Should the D-notices not be issued already?
As far as I can tell from the coverage on Sky and the BBC, they are promoting the Erdogan message of getting people on the streets and claiming the coup may fail.
"The chief of staff of the military has not spoken yet and traditionally with Turkish coups you would expect the head of the military to be on TV taking command.”
I got the feeling Sky News got caught out there, as they introduced the lady first as a journalist....then I think somebody realised oh f##k she is a member of the AKP and just parroting the propaganda.
Tim Marshall appears to have gone from their coverage which is a shame.
Sky news giving a lot of airtime to a blatant Erdogan apologist.
She's an AKP member.
Should the D-notices not be issued already?
As far as I can tell from the coverage on Sky and the BBC, they are promoting the Erdogan message of getting people on the streets and claiming the coup may fail.
Isn't this what D-notices are meant for?
Given that Erdogan has been giving interviews on Turkish TV I'm not sure that it matters what happens here or anywhere else outside of Europe.
"The chief of staff of the military has not spoken yet and traditionally with Turkish coups you would expect the head of the military to be on TV taking command.”
The Chief of Staff is an Erdogan supporter (as are most of the senior command). That they have been neutralised is a good sign. They are more important than Erdogan.
That's not really the case. Changes made to rules for director only firms. Have you used the tpr employer duties checker?
Yep, as soon as you have two directors you have to go through the entire nonsense, with threats at every stage saying you're committing a criminal offence if you get the slightest detail of the charade wrong.
Not been my experience at all. My company has two directors and all I had to do was sign a piece of paper to that effect and I am opted out. All sorted for me by my accountant in minutes.
I got the feeling Sky News got caught out there, as they introduced the lady first as a journalist....then I think somebody realised oh f##k she is a member of the AKP and just parrotting the propaganda.
That's not really the case. Changes made to rules for director only firms. Have you used the tpr employer duties checker?
Yep, as soon as you have two directors you have to go through the entire nonsense, with threats at every stage saying you're committing a criminal offence if you get the slightest detail of the charade wrong.
Not been my experience at all. My company has two directors and all I had to do was sign a piece of paper to that effect and I am opted out. All sorted for me by my accountant in minutes.
Exactly but need to be aware of you do become classed as having a worker on your books.
From the comments on here, I wonder if people realise how pivotal the next few hours will be to the future stability and safety of the West.
If the Islamists win, the West is finished. Utterly finished.
Don't be silly. If the military wins they are likely to revive the 'no problems with neighbours' policy and do very little. If Erdogan wins, he's similarly likely not to emerge from his hutch very often for a while. Neither scenario is devastating for 'The West'. But it won't be nice for the Turkish people, that's for sure.
Sky news giving a lot of airtime to a blatant Erdogan apologist.
She's an AKP member.
Should the D-notices not be issued already?
As far as I can tell from the coverage on Sky and the BBC, they are promoting the Erdogan message of getting people on the streets and claiming the coup may fail.
Isn't this what D-notices are meant for?
Issuing a d-notice is fairly meaningless in the 21st century with the internet, it is totally meaningless when you're talking British media and a Turkish coup. If Sky/BBC stop reporting coverage what will stop CNN and others?
I got the feeling Sky News got caught out there, as they introduced the lady first as a journalist....then I think somebody realised oh f##k she is a member of the AKP and just parrotting the propaganda.
She was introduced as a member of AKP.
Did they. I only heard journalist when the interview started...then about half way through they added to the caption AKP member....but I am multi-tasking so I could be wrong.
Sky news giving a lot of airtime to a blatant Erdogan apologist.
She's an AKP member.
Should the D-notices not be issued already?
As far as I can tell from the coverage on Sky and the BBC, they are promoting the Erdogan message of getting people on the streets and claiming the coup may fail.
Isn't this what D-notices are meant for?
How many in Turkey are watching Sky?
For example, Fox News are taking their feed from Sky. The UK might be a tiny backwater in political terms but its news services are still important. Issue the D-notices and make sure the coup is properly backed.
I got the feeling Sky News got caught out there, as they introduced the lady first as a journalist....then I think somebody realised oh f##k she is a member of the AKP and just parrotting the propaganda.
She was introduced as a member of AKP.
Did they. I only heard journalist...then about half way through they added to the caption AKP....but I am multi-tasking so I could have been wrong.
Yeah, it was explicitly mentioned she was part of Erdogan's party.
"ANADOLU AGENCY (ENG) @anadoluagency 2m2 minutes ago + Gen. Dundar: 'Required measures taken with other troops that did not join but remain in command chain'
ANADOLU AGENCY (ENG) @anadoluagency 3m3 minutes ago Gen. Dundar: 'Coup leaders small group in first army command; no need to worry' +"
Sky news giving a lot of airtime to a blatant Erdogan apologist.
She's an AKP member.
Should the D-notices not be issued already?
As far as I can tell from the coverage on Sky and the BBC, they are promoting the Erdogan message of getting people on the streets and claiming the coup may fail.
Isn't this what D-notices are meant for?
Issuing a d-notice is fairly meaningless in the 21st century with the internet, it is totally meaningless when you're talking British media and a Turkish coup. If Sky/BBC stop reporting coverage what will stop CNN and others?
Why the hell would the Government be issuing D-notices to prevent coverage of a coup in a foreign country?
"The chief of staff of the military has not spoken yet and traditionally with Turkish coups you would expect the head of the military to be on TV taking command.”
What do we think? Is this supported by the West and if so, why? ISIS? Blackmailing Europe over the migrant crisis? Might seem like a cunning move but is Erdogan unpopular? What if an increasingly Islamist Turkey population turned inextricably against the west.
The interests of France, America and Russia are aligned.
It is hard to think this is not backed in advanced by the West and Russia.
Although it seems the UK is out of the loop.
If the Americans are involved why isn't there a colour?
Comments
http://www.dw.com/en/updates-military-attempt-to-seize-power-in-turkey/a-19403712
Erdogan supporters it appears.
Maybe both were wrong...
If the Islamists win, the West is finished. Utterly finished.
Reality is getting beyond parody.
Everyone else is losing.
Has Dan Hodges explained how this is bad news for Corbyn yet?
That is ending if Erdogan wins. Hardcore, fundamentalist Islam will be 200 miles from the gates of Vienna. With an uncontrollable border letting anyone they want to let in.
And in fact why would you not just have a qwps already with all the tax advantages there are incl sal exchange for the company???
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara
23.29
As far as I can tell from the coverage on Sky and the BBC, they are promoting the Erdogan message of getting people on the streets and claiming the coup may fail.
Isn't this what D-notices are meant for?
Anyway - my point to Baroness Altman was a simple one. Why on earth did we have to go through the charade, knowing that it was a charade? Who was the charade supposed to protect? This is supposed to be a government dedicated to sweeping away nonsensical red-tape, and here was a completely unambiguous piece of nonsensical red-tape all ready to be cut out.
Tim Marshall appears to have gone from their coverage which is a shame.
All political parties have come out against the coup.
+ Gen. Dundar: 'Required measures taken with other troops that did not join but remain in command chain'
ANADOLU AGENCY (ENG) @anadoluagency 3m3 minutes ago
Gen. Dundar: 'Coup leaders small group in first army command; no need to worry' +"
https://twitter.com/anadoluagency