Leading eurosceptics since their referendum victory:
Leadsom – withdrawn Boris – retreated Gove – humiliated Farage – resigned Corbyn – mutinied Fox – beaten
To twist an old saying, if that's what victory looks like, I sure as hell wouldn't wish defeat on them.
Hater of democracy?
Eh?
You seem to be celebrating the "demise" of these people. Farage has seen a lifetimes work pay off against the odds, while Corbyn is successfully dismantling the centrist Party Labour have become over the last two decades, in the face of opposition from people whose support he never had when he won a landslide victory.
As for the Tory Brexit crew, they have been outwitted by a group of MP's who are diametrically at odds with both their membership and the majority of their voters
Elites pulling together to obstruct the will of the masses isn't something I would celebrate.
Well said.
The will of the masses, in the UK at least, rarely involves following ideologues of the edge of a cliff as general election results prove.
General Election results prove that fear of letting the enemy win is a more powerful motivator than voting for your beliefs. If Corbyn manages to destroy Labour, and May tries to kick Brexit into the long grass, we could finally see a fairer political landscape.
Corbyn must now stay as leader and May must call an October election, which she should win very comfortably, possibly by a landslide.
Hard left Labour needs to be utterly eviscerated; Corbyn will then go, and the rebuilding can potentially commence.
Of course all this is simply fast forwarding from 2020, but it may mean that Labour could return to office in 2021 not 2025.
Sorry to disagree with Lord Hersham but if a few hours is a long time in politics this morning, then October is political light years away. Be careful what you wish for.
PM May must hold to her word. No general election, no more uncertainty, no angling for party advantage.
As I've said, I think most members are at a point where they'll look at leadership candidates' policies and make an assessment accordingly. Last year, it was felt that the ABC candidates didn't have many policies, though Yvette strengthened a bit towards the end.
I wanted Gove for all his faults. When he nuked himself, it was a choice between neither for me. I wanted to see what they'd to offer/similar scrutiny of positions et al.
I seriously considered abstaining or spoiling my ballot. How ironic is that.
Having listened to May's EdM Meets Ted Heath speech - I can't pretend to support her. It's The All The Same Party. Been there, done that and can't kid myself that I'll get over it.
The Tories still got another £25 Good luck to you and when I can, I'll cheer you on - I hope your efforts get results.
If a GE was held tomorrow - I'd vote Kipper.
I have to say your strop is completely baffling. Just over a year ago you were helping Caroline Ansell dislodge the Yellow Peril in Eastbourne, helping to get Cameron re-elected and, even better, working towards a majority Conservative government. An important part of the Conservative platform was the referendum. Despite the naysaying of the Kippers, that referendum was duly and promptly delivered. It went the way you wanted. The party is now uniting around an experienced candidate who is going to implement that decision, and who is slightly to the right of Cameron, and yet you're in a strop and leaning Kipperwards. It does seem very odd, Miss Plato!
As Mrs Leadsom demonstrates; changing her mind is a woman's perogative...
Corbyn must now stay as leader and May must call an October election, which she should win very comfortably, possibly by a landslide.
Hard left Labour needs to be utterly eviscerated; Corbyn will then go, and the rebuilding can potentially commence.
Of course all this is simply fast forwarding from 2020, but it may mean that Labour could return to office in 2021 not 2025.
Sorry to disagree with Lord Hersham but if a few hours is a long time in politics this morning, then October is political light years away. Be careful what you wish for.
PM May must hold to her word. No general election, no more uncertainty, no angling for party advantage.
We need a May -ism to cover her political followers and style, we've already got Blairites, Corbynistas, Cameroonians. Do we go with Mayflies or Mayflowers?
Does anyone have any articles from the time Gordon Brown was thinking about a snap election to get his own mandate shortly after becoming PM?
Might be useful to compare then and now?
Ideally I'm hoping there's an article from a Labour MP close to Gordon Brown
I seem to remember the Prime Mentalist having a bit of an electoral honeymoon. All new PMs do. If May's coincides with a full Labour split then she's looking at a 100+ seat landslide - just as long as she sticks to her 'Brexit means Brexit' guns.
One other thing we do know about what kind of prime minister May will be: she won’t be hasty and hyperactive. She finds herself in this position by not doing things. We journalists puzzled over why she wasn’t running a leadership campaign before the referendum. She got on with her job. During the referendum campaign she said she wanted to withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights, and got on with her job. After the referendum campaign, while Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom destroyed themselves, she focused on the task at hand, setting out her programme for her leadership (not including withdrawing from the ECHR). If as prime minister she simply gets on with the job, she could be very popular indeed
Yes Richard. But I don't think you argued that May wouldn't want to achieve it, rather that the EU wouldn't want to allow or enable it? Unless you made both points?
And how serious do you see the consequences for the UK economy of such an outcome?
Serious because anything other than vanilla EEA is going to take a long time to negotiate. Maybe ten years. In the meantime we are either in minimal WTO or languishing in an EU exit limbo dependent on the goodwill of EU partners who don't owe us any.
I think Germany will like to sell cars to us and not do anything that might trigger the collapse of Deutsche Bank... As such nothing much has changed is a happy medium term position for everyone....
We're in a situation where we can't go back, nor can we move forward to a new arrangement without passing through a damaging and lengthy limbo first. The only sensible alternative is another existing arrangement, which is EEA. May, Merkel and others may realise this and try to make it work, at least in the interim. Brexit will be playing out for a long time to come.
Well of course it will play out for a long time to come. The full effects of exit will not be felt for ten years maybe more and by that time there will have been so many other events that sorting out what the effects of exit were will be a matter of historians not politicians.
If you are suggesting that actually leaving will take many years then I think you might have hit the "negotiating" stage in the six(?) stages of grief.
You are not reading what I wrote. Leaving is only delayed until we get a new arrangement. Despite what Richard Tyndall claimed, it will take many years to negotiate a new type of arrangement because you're swapping out rules and swapping in reciprocal arrangements that need to be agreed with 30 parties. It takes two years simply to get an agreed treaty ratified. It took Croatia ten years to accession to an arrangement that the EU already has in place and most of it was reasonably uncontroversial. It takes time that we don't have. the logical thing is to go off teh shelf.
Poor Angela Eagle - the eagle has landed, only to find her perch whipped from underneath her. Politics is just brutal. The conservatives really should take Labour MPs on an "away day" and show them how it's done.
I get wee Timmy Farron calling for an election, he has nothing whatsoever to lose, but Labour? Is the reckoning that Corbyn wins the leadership contest, and a general election gets rid of him? Corbyn will not resign even if Labour loses the next election. They are stuck with him.
Assuming that Eagle can't win, the one outcome that would both get rid of Corbyn and avoid a party split would be if there is an early general election and Labour loses disasterously. After that even this membership will then turn against Corbyn, so there would be a good chance of him going even if he wasn't pushed. The advantage in that is that the political balance of the surviving PLP will be much the same, and the MEPs will be larger as a % of the total - there won't have been time for deselections, nor will there have been time for the left to change the party rules. So the chances of a new version of Corbyn getting on the ballot for a new leader will be pretty slim.
I get wee Timmy Farron calling for an election, he has nothing whatsoever to lose, but Labour? Is the reckoning that Corbyn wins the leadership contest, and a general election gets rid of him? Corbyn will not resign even if Labour loses the next election. They are stuck with him.
Assuming that Eagle can't win, the one outcome that would both get rid of Corbyn and avoid a party split would be if there is an early general election and Labour loses disasterously. After that even this membership will then turn against Corbyn, so there would be a good chance of him going even if he wasn't pushed. The advantage in that is that the political balance of the surviving PLP will be much the same, and the MEPs will be larger as a % of the total - there won't have been time for deselections, nor will there have been time for the left to change the party rules. So the chances of a new version of Corbyn getting on the ballot for a new leader will be pretty slim.
I wanted Gove for all his faults. When he nuked himself, it was a choice between neither for me. I wanted to see what they'd to offer/similar scrutiny of positions et al.
I seriously considered abstaining or spoiling my ballot. How ironic is that.
Having listened to May's EdM Meets Ted Heath speech - I can't pretend to support her. It's The All The Same Party. Been there, done that and can't kid myself that I'll get over it.
The Tories still got another £25 Good luck to you and when I can, I'll cheer you on - I hope your efforts get results.
If a GE was held tomorrow - I'd vote Kipper.
I have to say your strop is completely baffling. Just over a year ago you were helping Caroline Ansell dislodge the Yellow Peril in Eastbourne, helping to get Cameron re-elected and, even better, working towards a majority Conservative government. An important part of the Conservative platform was the referendum. Despite the naysaying of the Kippers, that referendum was duly and promptly delivered. It went the way you wanted. The party is now uniting around an experienced candidate who is going to implement that decision, and who is slightly to the right of Cameron, and yet you're in a strop and leaning Kipperwards. It does seem very odd, Miss Plato!
Not at all. The Tory Remain campaign eroded 80% of my loyalty with insults such as Little Englander. I'm not alone in feeling this way. The final 20% expired today with no vote and closing ranks. I mentioned a few weeks ago that I'd never previously understood the All The Same Party mindset - and now did. I've simply taken the next step, despite wishing for the opposite.
There's nothing special about the Tories for me. So why stick around. Caroline is a charming lady - but that's the way the electoral cookie crumbles.
She's guaranteed to be PM of a Majority Con Government for the next 4 years.
Majority of 16 is small but perfectly big enough with a split and chaotic opposition.
And what would she gain - one extra year - the difference between next GE in 2021 rather than 2020 is trivial.
And there is a risk - any election is unpredictable - at this time anything could happen. Just because Lab is in disarray doesn't mean something else unexpected might happen. Who knows - UKIP may campaign saying May will backtrack on Brexit and make massive gains - from Lab and Con - costing May her majority.
And finally - May said when she launched her campaign no GE until 2020. She is a straightforward politician and she has a huge job to do - would it really be a good start to do a massive U-turn which looks opportunistic? Which may then massively backfire.
PM: May (Remain) Chancellor: Javid (Remain) Foreign: Hammond (Remain) Home: Gove (Leave) Justice: Raab (Leave) Brexit: Letwin (Remain) Defence: Fox (Leave) Education: Crabb (Remain) Work & Pensions: Patel (Leave) International Development: Greening (Remain) Transport: McLoughlin (Remain) Commons Leader: Grayling (Leave) Equalities: Morgan (Remain) Business: Leadsom (Leave) Culture: Johnson (Leave) Northern Ireland: Clark (Remain) Wales: Cairn (Remain) Scotland: Mundell (Remain) Energy: Rudd (Remain)
Grayling will get a big promotion.
I hope not, Mr. Max. Putting Fox back at defence after he made such a pigs ear of it last time would be a very silly move (though I am sure the treasury would approve). The some of the others, Rudd and Johnson for example, what on earth would they be doing in a well run government anyway?
PM: May (Remain) Chancellor: Javid (Remain) Foreign: Hammond (Remain) Home: Gove (Leave) Justice: Raab (Leave) Brexit: Letwin (Remain) Defence: Fox (Leave) Education: Crabb (Remain) Work & Pensions: Patel (Leave) International Development: Greening (Remain) Transport: McLoughlin (Remain) Commons Leader: Grayling (Leave) Equalities: Morgan (Remain) Business: Leadsom (Leave) Culture: Johnson (Leave) Northern Ireland: Clark (Remain) Wales: Cairn (Remain) Scotland: Mundell (Remain) Energy: Rudd (Remain)
Grayling will get a big promotion.
Fallon has to stay at Defence. He's the only minister any of my armed forces contacts have ever had a good word for.
I don't see any need to give Fox a position, nor do I see any need to promote Gove. He's fine at Justice. I'd actually keep Osborne in the cabinet. He can be Home Secretary as a penance. Alternatively swap him and Hammond.
Yep. The bit I really couldn't understand this morning as it was discussed on Today is how anyone could think that Corbyn needed to get nominations to stand. The post 2010 rules are very clear and there is little ambiguity in them
Yep. The bit I really couldn't understand this morning as it was discussed on Today is how anyone could think that Corbyn needed to get nominations to stand. The post 2010 rules are very clear and there is little ambiguity in them
Comments
PM May must hold to her word. No general election, no more uncertainty, no angling for party advantage.
Just get on with the job in hand.
I'll convene an emergency meeting of the Tories for Palmer.
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
She's guaranteed to be PM of a Majority Con Government for the next 4 years.
Majority of 16 is small but perfectly big enough with a split and chaotic opposition.
And what would she gain - one extra year - the difference between next GE in 2021 rather than 2020 is trivial.
And there is a risk - any election is unpredictable - at this time anything could happen. Just because Lab is in disarray doesn't mean something else unexpected might happen. Who knows - UKIP may campaign saying May will backtrack on Brexit and make massive gains - from Lab and Con - costing May her majority.
And finally - May said when she launched her campaign no GE until 2020. She is a straightforward politician and she has a huge job to do - would it really be a good start to do a massive U-turn which looks opportunistic? Which may then massively backfire.
' I get wee Timmy Farron calling for an election, he has nothing whatsoever to lose'
Who ?
I don't see any need to give Fox a position, nor do I see any need to promote Gove. He's fine at Justice. I'd actually keep Osborne in the cabinet. He can be Home Secretary as a penance. Alternatively swap him and Hammond.
https://twitter.com/MadMazTotalRock/status/752085081947250688
They would be mad to exclude him. He'll sue and win, or simply activate Plan B.
Resign, and create a "vacancy", then requiring only 38 nomination instead of 51 to get on the ballot, making the plotters look like 'nanas.