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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Leadsom quits the race. Big question now is whether May is

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  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    If I was being extremely naughty I put Boris as Party Chairman and sack Gove ....

    Chortle .... :smile:
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    Managed to turn my mild loss into a nice little profit in the last 30 minutes of the contest !

    #Portugal
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I suspect he may have had a small fortune on Osborne...!

    No

    Had some on Hammond
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    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226
    Scott_P said:

    MontyHall said:

    Well done, was May the only one you backed?

    Err, no...
    Oh, you only publish the winners? I see how it works now
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    IanB2 said:

    ToryJim said:

    Why, suddenly are Labour the LDs coming out urging a GE now there is "a coronation" or "a stitch-up" - the point about "the lack of mandate" would apply equally if 150k Tories determined the PM on 9th September wouldn't it? So why haven't they spent the past fortnight banging on about it?

    Did they hope the Tories would shoot themselves in the foot, but are now terrified at the sight of the Tory Party coming together and unifying behind a popular, experienced and moderate leader in the national interest?

    It's grandstanding, if there was a motion to hold an election they wouldn't vote for it.
    I think the LibDems would.
    Racing cert.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190

    Pulpstar said:

    John_M said:

    Pulpstar said:

    John_M said:

    Brom said:

    May - PM
    Hammond - Chancellor
    Grayling - Home
    Osborn - Foreign
    Davis - Head of Brexit
    Gove - Justice
    Javid - Education
    Leadsom - Business
    Fox - Health
    Johnson - Defence
    Rudd - Culture

    would be my guess. Though anything that keeps Rudd, Soubry and Morgan out of the cabinet would be a success in my eyes. I'm hoping in particularly Soubry and Wollaston have ruined their future prospects over the past weeks.

    I'd be very unhappy to see Fallon moved from Defence, particularly if replaced by Johnson. He should replace Rudd @ DCMS, if anything at all.
    Boris Johnson in charge of defence ?!

    Are you mad ?
    Did you actually read what I wrote, or were you replying to Brom's post? I don't think Boris is really ministerial material. Can you imagine him doing his red boxes? Party Chairman at best. Or possibly Minister for Cheering People Up.
    Defence is a serious job for a serious man.

    Boris should get the Ministry of fun, much more suited to his talents.
    Ministry of Fun, that sounds like something out of 1984!
    Sounds more like Madness to me!

    Welcome to the lion's den
    Temptation's on his way
    Welcome to the House....
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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649

    "Pound jumps as Leadsom quits contest"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/markets/europe/lse_ukx

    Look at the scale on that chart.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Oxford uni win again.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    MontyHall said:

    Oh, you only publish the winners? I see how it works now

    No, i only celebrate the winners.

    Unlike the Brexiteers...
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    @LouiseMensch is a spoof. I hope we all realise that now.

    I was amazed I got taken in for so long. Genius twitter account, whoever is behind it.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,229
    IanB2 said:

    ToryJim said:

    Why, suddenly are Labour the LDs coming out urging a GE now there is "a coronation" or "a stitch-up" - the point about "the lack of mandate" would apply equally if 150k Tories determined the PM on 9th September wouldn't it? So why haven't they spent the past fortnight banging on about it?

    Did they hope the Tories would shoot themselves in the foot, but are now terrified at the sight of the Tory Party coming together and unifying behind a popular, experienced and moderate leader in the national interest?

    It's grandstanding, if there was a motion to hold an election they wouldn't vote for it.
    I think the LibDems would.
    Yes; an election on 650 seats not 600, plus no Vince in Twickenham, and a good chance in a couple of Scottish seats if the Scottish parliament is anything to go by. I reckon they'd end up on 12% with 14 seats. Which would be quite a result for Mr Farron.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,576
    Anyone else got a problem with bbc news 24 live on iplayer?
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    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226
    edited July 2016
    Scott_P said:

    MontyHall said:

    Oh, you only publish the winners? I see how it works now

    No, i only celebrate the winners.

    Unlike the Brexiteers...
    Sorry that one passed me by

    I won very big (for me) on Brexit, but gave back 5% of the winnings backing Boris as next Con leader.

    Hey ho, well done on the May bet
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    IanB2 said:

    ToryJim said:

    Why, suddenly are Labour the LDs coming out urging a GE now there is "a coronation" or "a stitch-up" - the point about "the lack of mandate" would apply equally if 150k Tories determined the PM on 9th September wouldn't it? So why haven't they spent the past fortnight banging on about it?

    Did they hope the Tories would shoot themselves in the foot, but are now terrified at the sight of the Tory Party coming together and unifying behind a popular, experienced and moderate leader in the national interest?

    It's grandstanding, if there was a motion to hold an election they wouldn't vote for it.
    I think the LibDems would.

    If there is an early GE anti-Corbyn Labour MPs might well escape being deselected. On that basis they'd have a very good reason to vote for one asap.

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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,787
    JackW said:

    I note Plato has donated to UKIP whilst still a member of the Conservative Party. Are these two positions compatible within the Tory rules ....

    Just aski.. stirring .. :smile:

    She also became a Labour £3 supporter last year. Covering all the bases!
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    Scott_P said:

    Just seen IDS "sore loser" speech on Sky

    Can this day get any better?

    The Germans have a word for it that I can never spell. Schaudenfraude or something :-)

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    EXCLUSIVE: UKIP Executive Says Leadership Candidates Must Be 5-Year-Long Party Members https://t.co/t8SNu6IeMN https://t.co/Dqqq0oL7cw
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    She also became a Labour £3 supporter last year. Covering all the bases!

    Indeed so ....

    But the yellow peril was just a step too far .... :smile:
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    stjohn said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JoeMurphyLondon: A minister tells me the Queen returns to London tomorrow. So it sounds like Mrs May will go to the Palace and become Prime Minister by tea.

    Presumably the Queen will come down the East coast, taking in Warrington and then crossing over to Leicester to pass through the A 50.
    A novel means of invoking A50, but I expect Juncker would accept it.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,787
    She lead some up to the top of the hill then she lead them down again...
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Anyone else got a problem with bbc news 24 live on iplayer?

    Yes, stuck at 12 secs to the hour.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190
    PlatoSaid said:

    EXCLUSIVE: UKIP Executive Says Leadership Candidates Must Be 5-Year-Long Party Members https://t.co/t8SNu6IeMN https://t.co/Dqqq0oL7cw

    Sorry, Plato, you'll have to take your hat out the ring... ;-)
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    nunu said:

    Oxford uni win again.

    Warwick didn't stand a chance.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    Scott_P said:

    Just seen IDS "sore loser" speech on Sky

    Can this day get any better?

    The Germans have a word for it that I can never spell. Schaudenfraude or something :-)

    I see Labour are calling for a snap GE. I thought u were joking when u said Corbyn wants to destroy Labour but I see now u were serious.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    EXCLUSIVE: UKIP Executive Says Leadership Candidates Must Be 5-Year-Long Party Members https://t.co/t8SNu6IeMN https://t.co/Dqqq0oL7cw

    Sorry, Plato, you'll have to take your hat out the ring... ;-)
    :lol:
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Probably time for a quick roundup.

    Leading eurosceptics since their referendum victory:

    Leadsom – withdrawn
    Boris – retreated
    Gove – humiliated
    Farage – resigned
    Corbyn – mutinied
    Fox – beaten

    To twist an old saying, if that's what victory looks like, I sure as hell wouldn't wish defeat on them.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    PlatoSaid said:

    EXCLUSIVE: UKIP Executive Says Leadership Candidates Must Be 5-Year-Long Party Members https://t.co/t8SNu6IeMN https://t.co/Dqqq0oL7cw

    Narrows the field just a tad – are those still on parole eligible?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sky News team in a cloud burst !! ... :smiley:
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,780

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, pro-leave but also staying in the single market.

    I don't think we'll be staying in the single market:

    Q: Would you stay in the single market?

    May says she wants to get the best deal for trade in goods and services. But free movement of labour cannot continue. The Brexit vote was very clear on that, she says.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/jul/11/andrea-leadsom-apologises-to-theresa-may-politics-live?page=with:block-578377d1e4b0eebd31587035#liveblog-navigation

    11.27
    Isn't this rather worrying news for those of us hoping for EFTA/EEA?
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Pulpstar said:

    Managed to turn my mild loss into a nice little profit in the last 30 minutes of the contest !

    #Portugal

    I could have been bolder this morning, but still, dinner for two somewhere nice on Ms May!
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,464
    JackW said:

    I note Plato has donated to UKIP whilst still a member of the Conservative Party. Are these two positions compatible within the Tory rules ....

    Just aski.. stirring .. :smile:

    No - as you well know.
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    MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226
    Jobabob said:

    Probably time for a quick roundup.

    Leading eurosceptics since their referendum victory:

    Leadsom – withdrawn
    Boris – retreated
    Gove – humiliated
    Farage – resigned
    Corbyn – mutinied
    Fox – beaten

    To twist an old saying, if that's what victory looks like, I sure as hell wouldn't wish defeat on them.

    Hater of democracy?
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Apart from fervent hope what are people basing "Staying in the EEA and failing to en Freedom of Movement will be more devastating to Labour-UKIP seats than Con-UKIP seats"?
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    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,883
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Jobabob said:

    Probably time for a quick roundup.

    Leading eurosceptics since their referendum victory:

    Leadsom – withdrawn
    Boris – retreated
    Gove – humiliated
    Farage – resigned
    Corbyn – mutinied
    Fox – beaten

    To twist an old saying, if that's what victory looks like, I sure as hell wouldn't wish defeat on them.

    But Farage has resigned victorious. Of all the UK politicians he alongside May are the biggest winners from Brexit.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028

    PlatoSaid said:

    EXCLUSIVE: UKIP Executive Says Leadership Candidates Must Be 5-Year-Long Party Members https://t.co/t8SNu6IeMN https://t.co/Dqqq0oL7cw

    Narrows the field just a tad – are those still on parole eligible?
    Steven Woolfe eligible under this criteria
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,217
    PlatoSaid said:

    EXCLUSIVE: UKIP Executive Says Leadership Candidates Must Be 5-Year-Long Party Members https://t.co/t8SNu6IeMN https://t.co/Dqqq0oL7cw

    Given the party is only twenty-odd years old, and has expanded massively in the last few years, that seems a rather odd requirement.
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    DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    I've been following politics for almost 50 years, and I've never seen anything like the last few weeks.

    Once we get back to the slow pace of "politics as usual" I am going to be suffering from Cold Turkey. :frowning:
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
    edited July 2016
    Brom said:

    Jobabob said:

    Probably time for a quick roundup.

    Leading eurosceptics since their referendum victory:

    Leadsom – withdrawn
    Boris – retreated
    Gove – humiliated
    Farage – resigned
    Corbyn – mutinied
    Fox – beaten

    To twist an old saying, if that's what victory looks like, I sure as hell wouldn't wish defeat on them.

    But Farage has resigned victorious. Of all the UK politicians he alongside May are the biggest winners from Brexit.
    I think Alex Salmond specifically will be the eventual biggest winner.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    @ayestotheright:

    The @nick_clegg who is calling for an early general election must be so mad with his evil twin who introduced fixed term parliaments
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Pulpstar said:

    Managed to turn my mild loss into a nice little profit in the last 30 minutes of the contest !

    #Portugal

    I could have been bolder this morning, but still, dinner for two somewhere nice on Ms May!
    Honolulu?
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    DavidL said:

    jonny83 said:

    FF43 said:

    Will Boris/Gove be given the Brexit Brief?

    Both are certainly angling for it.

    BBC - "Gove: Theresa May has my 'full support'"
    BBC - "Boris Johnson: May will be 'excellent' PM"


    I don't like Gove at all, but he's got to be the choice there (if it comes down to those 2). Boris has no respect in Brussels, he's known for all the bendy-banana stories, he doesn't come across serious. Gove is a longterm eurosceptic so will be brimming with ideas - ignore all his Vote Leave campaign BS about hating experts and billions of turks coming over.

    Boris was born to be Culture Secretary - I genuinely think he would be a good fit there.
    If Theresa May has any sense she will keep those two away from the Brexit brief - beyond a possible PR oversight to keep Leavers happy. She will give the job to someone like herself - a boring, safe pair of hands with no strong opinions who will keep out of the limelight.
    David Davis seems a good choice or Grayling.
    For governor of South Georgia? Maybe but you'd worry for the welfare of the Penguins.
    No even for Davis they're a kind of black and white issue :)
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    MontyHall said:

    Jobabob said:

    Probably time for a quick roundup.

    Leading eurosceptics since their referendum victory:

    Leadsom – withdrawn
    Boris – retreated
    Gove – humiliated
    Farage – resigned
    Corbyn – mutinied
    Fox – beaten

    To twist an old saying, if that's what victory looks like, I sure as hell wouldn't wish defeat on them.

    Hater of democracy?
    Eh?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,855

    JackW said:

    I note Plato has donated to UKIP whilst still a member of the Conservative Party. Are these two positions compatible within the Tory rules ....

    Just aski.. stirring .. :smile:

    She also became a Labour £3 supporter last year. Covering all the bases!
    Thats a definite no-no - rules aren't clear on 'donations' but explicitly rule out membership of other parties....
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    I note Plato has donated to UKIP whilst still a member of the Conservative Party. Are these two positions compatible within the Tory rules ....

    Just aski.. stirring .. :smile:

    No - as you well know.
    I simply wanted confirmation from esteemed PB Tory scum ....

    Honest Guv .... :naughty:

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    stjohn said:

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, pro-leave but also staying in the single market.

    I don't think we'll be staying in the single market:

    Q: Would you stay in the single market?

    May says she wants to get the best deal for trade in goods and services. But free movement of labour cannot continue. The Brexit vote was very clear on that, she says.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/jul/11/andrea-leadsom-apologises-to-theresa-may-politics-live?page=with:block-578377d1e4b0eebd31587035#liveblog-navigation

    11.27
    Isn't this rather worrying news for those of us hoping for EFTA/EEA?
    Yes, I've been saying for weeks that an EEA-style deal is unlikely.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    JackW said:

    I note Plato has donated to UKIP whilst still a member of the Conservative Party. Are these two positions compatible within the Tory rules ....

    Just aski.. stirring .. :smile:

    She also became a Labour £3 supporter last year. Covering all the bases!
    Thats a definite no-no - rules aren't clear on 'donations' but explicitly rule out membership of other parties....
    If the Tory Party has any sense they will kick her out. Registering for another party to game their leadership election is uncivic and shameful.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    ''I do not think UKIP will benefit at all from this as regards the Tories - possibly from Labour but my feeling is the party will gradually fade away now. ''

    LOL

    I've just bunged some money towards UKIP. Not at all impressed.
    Is that compatible with being a Conservative member?
    Is joining the Labour party to vote in their election? It's not just rules but conscience.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    Pulpstar said:

    Managed to turn my mild loss into a nice little profit in the last 30 minutes of the contest !

    #Portugal

    I could have been bolder this morning, but still, dinner for two somewhere nice on Ms May!
    Honolulu?
    If they do flights for I don't know, £20 e/w
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Disraeli said:

    I've been following politics for almost 50 years, and I've never seen anything like the last few weeks.

    Once we get back to the slow pace of "politics as usual" I am going to be suffering from Cold Turkey. :frowning:


    If we hadn't seen such riches, we could live with being poor!
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,157

    Anyone else got a problem with bbc news 24 live on iplayer?

    It's been on the blink for a couple of weeks now, when you try to find the political news all you get is some ridiculously unbelievable political drama series.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    In honour of Mrs May, I'm spending my winnings on new footwear.
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,780

    stjohn said:

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, pro-leave but also staying in the single market.

    I don't think we'll be staying in the single market:

    Q: Would you stay in the single market?

    May says she wants to get the best deal for trade in goods and services. But free movement of labour cannot continue. The Brexit vote was very clear on that, she says.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/jul/11/andrea-leadsom-apologises-to-theresa-may-politics-live?page=with:block-578377d1e4b0eebd31587035#liveblog-navigation

    11.27
    Isn't this rather worrying news for those of us hoping for EFTA/EEA?
    Yes, I've been saying for weeks that an EEA-style deal is unlikely.
    Yes Richard. But I don't think you argued that May wouldn't want to achieve it, rather that the EU wouldn't want to allow or enable it? Unless you made both points?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2016
    While May gets on with running the country, Corbyn is consumed by the task of suing his own party. Well, not yet...
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    stjohn said:

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, pro-leave but also staying in the single market.

    I don't think we'll be staying in the single market:

    Q: Would you stay in the single market?

    May says she wants to get the best deal for trade in goods and services. But free movement of labour cannot continue. The Brexit vote was very clear on that, she says.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/jul/11/andrea-leadsom-apologises-to-theresa-may-politics-live?page=with:block-578377d1e4b0eebd31587035#liveblog-navigation

    11.27
    Isn't this rather worrying news for those of us hoping for EFTA/EEA?
    Yes, I've been saying for weeks that an EEA-style deal is unlikely.
    Would be a disaster to leave the single market. I hope and expect she will relent once in post, if that is indeed the current plan.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    DavidL said:

    Christ. What a mess. There was an excellent Matt a few days ago with 2 students saying they were studying politics and in particular the period from Thursday morning to Friday lunchtime.

    My list of reasons to support Theresa has not got any longer. I am suspicious of her authoritarian tendencies, her belief in government action, her failure of delivery at the Home Office and her narrow outlook on life. Having had the government that was probably closest to my own political views in my adult life under Cameron and Osborne I feel at most a semi detached supporter of this new government.

    I hope for the best but fear the worst in a situation where we have no effective opposition. The sheer self indulgence of those people who nominated and voted for Corbyn makes me sick.

    I've been waiting for my silent rage to subside - and it isn't. I can't recall the last time I felt so grrrrr. Thirty years or more.
    As a Brexiter, surely it's better to be in the world where Leave has won even if you have a pro-Remain PM (but committed to Leave) rather than any other point in the time in the past 30 years when the prospect of the UK leaving the EU was nothing but a pipedream?
    I object very strongly to the notion of members not getting a vote. A pro-Remain PM given the job as a result of enormous media pressure exerted on her rival.

    I like democracy and would accept the result whether it was May or not. I'm politically homeless right now.
    Hilarious.. just so funny. Maybe they'll refund your membership fee.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    @benrileysmith: Labour MP: "Willfully charging into a general election now is the equivalent of running full pelt off the edge of a cliff."
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,486
    I hope Corbyn survives as at present the Tories are Mayist and Labour is Maoist!
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting that Osborne is in New York doing the job normally reserved for the foreign secretary...

    He is in New York meeting bankers, not Washington meeting pols, but maybe...
    Although I'm told he took the opportunity to make some snarky remarks about May

    (her speech was like "Ed Miliband reheated" was what I heard...
    Nothing like analysis based on hearsay.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    felix said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    DavidL said:

    Christ. What a mess. There was an excellent Matt a few days ago with 2 students saying they were studying politics and in particular the period from Thursday morning to Friday lunchtime.

    My list of reasons to support Theresa has not got any longer. I am suspicious of her authoritarian tendencies, her belief in government action, her failure of delivery at the Home Office and her narrow outlook on life. Having had the government that was probably closest to my own political views in my adult life under Cameron and Osborne I feel at most a semi detached supporter of this new government.

    I hope for the best but fear the worst in a situation where we have no effective opposition. The sheer self indulgence of those people who nominated and voted for Corbyn makes me sick.

    I've been waiting for my silent rage to subside - and it isn't. I can't recall the last time I felt so grrrrr. Thirty years or more.
    As a Brexiter, surely it's better to be in the world where Leave has won even if you have a pro-Remain PM (but committed to Leave) rather than any other point in the time in the past 30 years when the prospect of the UK leaving the EU was nothing but a pipedream?
    I object very strongly to the notion of members not getting a vote. A pro-Remain PM given the job as a result of enormous media pressure exerted on her rival.

    I like democracy and would accept the result whether it was May or not. I'm politically homeless right now.
    Hilarious.. just so funny. Maybe they'll refund your membership fee.
    It's what we do. Almost like 2003 all over again.

    In fact the PCP overturned the will of the Tory members.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited July 2016

    In honour of Mrs May, I'm spending my winnings on new footwear.

    Dear God .... don't give Mrs JackW ideas ....

    Too late .... :cry:

    Edit ... I have this nagging feeling Mrs JackW has an app notifying her of PB shoe posts !! .. :astonished:

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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited July 2016
    Angela Eagle sounded awful, just awful. "I am my own woman squawk squawk squawk"!

    OTOH Mrs May isn't a great speaker either but at least I believe her.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    AndyJS said:

    While May gets on with running the country, Corbyn is consumed by the task of suing his own party. Well, not yet...

    I suspect even he wouldn't go through with it.

    If the NEC says he needs nominations (odds against but possible) and he is kept off the ballot by the PLP (likely) and then attacked through the courts he would lose, having already been deposed as leader.

    Once deposed as leader I suspect he'll go back to Islington to be a self-indulgent, narcissistic, rabble-rouser with no clue about the world as it is today. Oh hang on... he never left!
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,872

    stjohn said:

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, pro-leave but also staying in the single market.

    I don't think we'll be staying in the single market:

    Q: Would you stay in the single market?

    May says she wants to get the best deal for trade in goods and services. But free movement of labour cannot continue. The Brexit vote was very clear on that, she says.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/jul/11/andrea-leadsom-apologises-to-theresa-may-politics-live?page=with:block-578377d1e4b0eebd31587035#liveblog-navigation

    11.27
    Isn't this rather worrying news for those of us hoping for EFTA/EEA?
    Yes, I've been saying for weeks that an EEA-style deal is unlikely.
    And how do the single-market EEA majority in parliament react if something far inferior to that is offered? You might be able to trigger A50 alone, but Parliament is going to be heavily involved at plenty of points along the way.

    The lack of Brexiteers in the fore has left the field free for every former Europhile to grab their version of Brexit. The UK politics of Brexit is going to be a stroppy, messy, cross-party shenanigan of epic proportions.

    It is why Southam is calling GE (I'd say eventually), but the more confident prediction is that Disraeli is not going to be bored for a long, long, long time.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    ToryJim said:

    I hope Corbyn survives as at present the Tories are Mayist and Labour is Maoist!

    :) Very good
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,843

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, pro-leave but also staying in the single market.

    I don't think we'll be staying in the single market:

    Q: Would you stay in the single market?

    May says she wants to get the best deal for trade in goods and services. But free movement of labour cannot continue. The Brexit vote was very clear on that, she says.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/jul/11/andrea-leadsom-apologises-to-theresa-may-politics-live?page=with:block-578377d1e4b0eebd31587035#liveblog-navigation

    11.27
    The mood music from Germany is somewhat negative. Merkel thinks the UK voted for Brexit because it doesn't like freedom of movement; she expects Article 50 to be triggered once the new PM is in place, but the UK will not get all the benefits of the EU in the new arrangement.

    FWIW the Norwegian PM doubts EEA will be suitable for the UK.

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited July 2016
    stjohn said:

    Yes Richard. But I don't think you argued that May wouldn't want to achieve it, rather that the EU wouldn't want to allow or enable it? Unless you made both points?

    I've argued that we can't take it for granted that the EU countries + EFTA countries + European Parliament will unanimously agree to EEA membership, but, more importantly, I don't see how the circle of a deal involving full freedom of movement can be reconciled with the referendum result, given that both Vote Leave and Leave.EU campaigned on immigration as their principal argument. Since something has to give, I think it will be full membership of the Single Market which gets abandoned. My expectation is that we'll end up with a deal where we have full tariff-free and hassle-free access to the Single Market for goods, but not for services (and in particular, we won't retain financial passporting).
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693

    @benrileysmith: Labour MP: "Willfully charging into a general election now is the equivalent of running full pelt off the edge of a cliff."

    And May won't have a meaningful majority.

    I can't see why she wouldn't call an election straight away.

    >50% chance of another election this year, IMO.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Theresa May has arrived at Westminster.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    matt said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    ''I do not think UKIP will benefit at all from this as regards the Tories - possibly from Labour but my feeling is the party will gradually fade away now. ''

    LOL

    I've just bunged some money towards UKIP. Not at all impressed.
    Is that compatible with being a Conservative member?
    Is joining the Labour party to vote in their election? It's not just rules but conscience.
    Quite. Interesting very many Tories on here think it's a pretty low down dirty act. They are, of course, exactly right. It is.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dadge said:

    I wonder whether, if Labour can oust Corbyn (big if), it's worth trying to engineer a Lab-LD-Green electoral pact? If Lab stand down in say 30 LD seats and 5 Green seats, and in return LD and Green agree not to stand in any Lab-Con marginals, there'd be a faint hope of averting a Tory or Tory/Ukip landslide.

    If Corbyn is ousted by not letting him stand and there is then a snap election, I'd think the Greens will get 15%+, entirely at Labour's expense. They certainly won't agree to any sort of pact in that case. It's quite possible that Labour could lose 100 seats in that scenario. If Corbyn stays, a Green pact is politically possible, though I'm not sure the LibDems would be up for it.
    If and when PM May agrees an EEA deal it is also equally possible UKIP could get up to 25% much of it at the Tories expense so both the Tories and Labour could be under 30%, though the Tories still probably ahead
    Why would the EEA deal be mostly at the Tories expense when it was in no small parts Labour WWC Leavers that are most bothered by migration. EEA will appeal to a lot of Tory leavers, it won't appeal to many Labour leavers.
    Because it would be the Tories pushing it through and far more Tories voted Leave than Labour voters. Labour will be affected too of course but Tory seats in Kent and Essex and Lincolnshire etc would all be prime UKIP targets after an EEA deal
    I doubt if they'd actually go UKIP in a GE - they had a real chance last time and none of it happened. In a GE people are voting for MPs - big difference.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Jobabob said:

    AndyJS said:

    While May gets on with running the country, Corbyn is consumed by the task of suing his own party. Well, not yet...

    I suspect even he wouldn't go through with it.

    If the NEC says he needs nominations (odds against but possible) and he is kept off the ballot by the PLP (likely) and then attacked through the courts he would lose, having already been deposed as leader.

    Once deposed as leader I suspect he'll go back to Islington to be a self-indulgent, narcissistic, rabble-rouser with no clue about the world as it is today. Oh hang on... he never left!
    It would look very odd for an avowedly anti establishment figure like Corbyn to rely on the courts to preserve his position.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Jobabob said:

    AndyJS said:

    While May gets on with running the country, Corbyn is consumed by the task of suing his own party. Well, not yet...

    I suspect even he wouldn't go through with it.

    If the NEC says he needs nominations (odds against but possible) and he is kept off the ballot by the PLP (likely) and then attacked through the courts he would lose, having already been deposed as leader.

    Once deposed as leader I suspect he'll go back to Islington to be a self-indulgent, narcissistic, rabble-rouser with no clue about the world as it is today. Oh hang on... he never left!
    It would look very odd for an avowedly anti establishment figure like Corbyn to rely on the courts to preserve his position.
    Indeed so. It also wouldn't work.
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,780

    stjohn said:

    Yes Richard. But I don't think you argued that May wouldn't want to achieve it, rather that the EU wouldn't want to allow or enable it? Unless you made both points?

    I've argued that we can't take it for granted that the EU countries + EFTA countries + European Parliament will unanimously agree to EEA membership, but, more importantly, I don't see how the circle of a deal involving full freedom of movement can be reconciled with the referendum result, given that both Vote Leave and Leave.EU campaigned on immigration as their principal argument. Since something has to give, I think it will be full access to the Single Market which gets abandoned. My expectation is that we'll end up with a deal where we have full tariff-free and hassle-free access to the Single Market for goods, but not for services (and in particular, we won't retain financial passporting).
    And how serious do you see the consequences for the UK economy of such an outcome?
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Sky saying Her Majesty is due in London on Thursday. Probably going to happen then.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190
    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    EXCLUSIVE: UKIP Executive Says Leadership Candidates Must Be 5-Year-Long Party Members https://t.co/t8SNu6IeMN https://t.co/Dqqq0oL7cw

    Sorry, Plato, you'll have to take your hat out the ring... ;-)
    :lol:
    Glad to see some of your sangfroid has returned...

    You and I have been in a similar place. Both worked hard to get a Tory party elected that had promised a Referendum. Both hoped that Dave would deliver on his promise to materially renegotiate our position within the EU. Both would probably have voted Remain if he had. But both of us got pissed off with the overselling of the resulting "deal", insulting our intelligence at its supposed wonderfulness - then got incensed by his Project Fear and "Little Englander" stuff. Both of us voted Leave.

    Both hoped to have a serious Leaver on the Conservative members ballot. But then Gove started playing with hand grenades. He took it upon himself to decide who was a worthy candidate, usurping the role of the members. For whatever reason, Boris then stood aside. (The biographies covering this period are going to be fascinating...)

    I don't think you would have voted for Boris, even if he had carried the Leave banner into the final two. But when he wasn't there, you invested your hope in Leadsom. That is where we parted company. Just never saw her as Prime Ministerial. With a few more years in Government, she might have grown into being a proper challenger. But one decent showing in the TV debate was nowhere near enough. A Prime Minister can't just open mouth before engaging brain. Failing to understand in the moment how her comments might be interpreted was a one strike and your out moment. Reluctantly, I would have voted for May - though the temptation to spoil my ballot would have been high.

    So now we have May. She has a tricky high-wire act to perform. I hope she manages it. But I, at least, will still be on the inside of the party - watching, judging.... If she isn't up to snuff, then it will be down to folks like me to put the spine into our MPs to act. Can't do that from UKIP.

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited July 2016
    Pong said:

    @benrileysmith: Labour MP: "Willfully charging into a general election now is the equivalent of running full pelt off the edge of a cliff."

    And May won't have a meaningful majority.

    I can't see why she wouldn't call an election straight away.

    >50% chance of another election this year, IMO.
    Because she has already said she wouldn't. But that does not mean much now-a-days.

    I think she will call a GE before the details are sorted out regarding BREXIT. The next time the country will be asked will be 5 years later.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    stjohn said:

    Yes Richard. But I don't think you argued that May wouldn't want to achieve it, rather that the EU wouldn't want to allow or enable it? Unless you made both points?

    I've argued that we can't take it for granted that the EU countries + EFTA countries + European Parliament will unanimously agree to EEA membership, but, more importantly, I don't see how the circle of a deal involving full freedom of movement can be reconciled with the referendum result, given that both Vote Leave and Leave.EU campaigned on immigration as their principal argument. Since something has to give, I think it will be full membership of the Single Market which gets abandoned. My expectation is that we'll end up with a deal where we have full tariff-free and hassle-free access to the Single Market for goods, but not for services (and in particular, we won't retain financial passporting).
    The only caveat to that is that Merkel et al will be much more welcoming to May, as one who supported Remain. She has a reasonable chance of cutting some sort of deal, perhaps.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    Pulpstar said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    EXCLUSIVE: UKIP Executive Says Leadership Candidates Must Be 5-Year-Long Party Members https://t.co/t8SNu6IeMN https://t.co/Dqqq0oL7cw

    Narrows the field just a tad – are those still on parole eligible?
    Steven Woolfe eligible under this criteria
    13% of the vote and third place in Stockport apparently.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockport_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048

    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    DavidL said:

    Christ. What a mess. There was an excellent Matt a few days ago with 2 students saying they were studying politics and in particular the period from Thursday morning to Friday lunchtime.

    My list of reasons to support Theresa has not got any longer. I am suspicious of her authoritarian tendencies, her belief in government action, her failure of delivery at the Home Office and her narrow outlook on life. Having had the government that was probably closest to my own political views in my adult life under Cameron and Osborne I feel at most a semi detached supporter of this new government.

    I hope for the best but fear the worst in a situation where we have no effective opposition. The sheer self indulgence of those people who nominated and voted for Corbyn makes me sick.

    I've been waiting for my silent rage to subside - and it isn't. I can't recall the last time I felt so grrrrr. Thirty years or more.
    As a Brexiter, surely it's better to be in the world where Leave has won even if you have a pro-Remain PM (but committed to Leave) rather than any other point in the time in the past 30 years when the prospect of the UK leaving the EU was nothing but a pipedream?
    I object very strongly to the notion of members not getting a vote. A pro-Remain PM given the job as a result of enormous media pressure exerted on her rival.

    I like democracy and would accept the result whether it was May or not. I'm politically homeless right now.
    No Plato. It was not the result of 'enormous media pressure'. Leadsom shot herself in the foot, and then turned the gun and shot her campaign in the back. She was the architect, designer, builder, and labourer of her own misfortune.

    If you want to blame anyone for your not getting a say, blame Leadsom.

    After all, you were undecided and willing to listen, weren't you? ;)
    Can't disagree with that. I thought Leadsom was overhyped as a media performer during the referendum campaign and has shown a serious lack of experience in the leadership campaign. For me today's news is very welcome.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,486
    Jobabob said:

    ToryJim said:

    I hope Corbyn survives as at present the Tories are Mayist and Labour is Maoist!

    :) Very good
    *bows*
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    stjohn said:

    And how serious do you see the consequences for the UK economy of such an outcome?

    Quite bad in the short-term because of the effect on the City, although a quick deal along those lines would be better than an EEA deal after an extended negotiation.

    In the long-term, hard to say. The Brexiteers told us that we'd be free to take advantages of trade with other countries in a way in which we couldn't as members of the EU. That always seemed to me to be an argument which was generated mainly by wishful thinking, but perhaps it can be made to work.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2016
    Did those with bets on Leadsom manage to cash out in time?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,843
    stjohn said:

    stjohn said:

    Yes Richard. But I don't think you argued that May wouldn't want to achieve it, rather that the EU wouldn't want to allow or enable it? Unless you made both points?

    I've argued that we can't take it for granted that the EU countries + EFTA countries + European Parliament will unanimously agree to EEA membership, but, more importantly, I don't see how the circle of a deal involving full freedom of movement can be reconciled with the referendum result, given that both Vote Leave and Leave.EU campaigned on immigration as their principal argument. Since something has to give, I think it will be full access to the Single Market which gets abandoned. My expectation is that we'll end up with a deal where we have full tariff-free and hassle-free access to the Single Market for goods, but not for services (and in particular, we won't retain financial passporting).
    And how serious do you see the consequences for the UK economy of such an outcome?
    Serious because anything other than vanilla EEA is going to take a long time to negotiate. Maybe ten years. In the meantime we are either in minimal WTO or languishing in an EU exit limbo dependent on the goodwill of EU partners who don't owe us any.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,217
    FF43 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Yes, pro-leave but also staying in the single market.

    I don't think we'll be staying in the single market:

    Q: Would you stay in the single market?

    May says she wants to get the best deal for trade in goods and services. But free movement of labour cannot continue. The Brexit vote was very clear on that, she says.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/jul/11/andrea-leadsom-apologises-to-theresa-may-politics-live?page=with:block-578377d1e4b0eebd31587035#liveblog-navigation

    11.27
    The mood music from Germany is somewhat negative. Merkel thinks the UK voted for Brexit because it doesn't like freedom of movement; she expects Article 50 to be triggered once the new PM is in place, but the UK will not get all the benefits of the EU in the new arrangement.

    FWIW the Norwegian PM doubts EEA will be suitable for the UK.
    I think they're right. I fear the likes of CR, Max, RCS etc are going to be very disappointed.
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    Jobabob said:

    matt said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    ''I do not think UKIP will benefit at all from this as regards the Tories - possibly from Labour but my feeling is the party will gradually fade away now. ''

    LOL

    I've just bunged some money towards UKIP. Not at all impressed.
    Is that compatible with being a Conservative member?
    Is joining the Labour party to vote in their election? It's not just rules but conscience.
    Quite. Interesting very many Tories on here think it's a pretty low down dirty act. They are, of course, exactly right. It is.
    Has there been any other kind of politics since Tony Blair?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    jonny83 said:

    Sky saying Her Majesty is due in London on Thursday. Probably going to happen then.

    Thursday would appear fitting. No unseemly rush. Cameron does a valedictory PMQ's, May has a few days to decide on a cabinet and the test match at Lords begins.

    Political history and leather on willow in one day. Splendid .. :smile:
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,787
    Odds of Article 50 being triggered this year, with Brexit in 2018 must now be more likely than at breakfast time.

    It has just dawned on me - Article 50 - therefore at least 49 other articles. Light reading, not.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited July 2016

    stjohn said:

    Yes Richard. But I don't think you argued that May wouldn't want to achieve it, rather that the EU wouldn't want to allow or enable it? Unless you made both points?

    I've argued that we can't take it for granted that the EU countries + EFTA countries + European Parliament will unanimously agree to EEA membership, but, more importantly, I don't see how the circle of a deal involving full freedom of movement can be reconciled with the referendum result, given that both Vote Leave and Leave.EU campaigned on immigration as their principal argument. Since something has to give, I think it will be full membership of the Single Market which gets abandoned. My expectation is that we'll end up with a deal where we have full tariff-free and hassle-free access to the Single Market for goods, but not for services (and in particular, we won't retain financial passporting).
    Richard, I think our respective position on this topic is probably very close, if not the same. Given the Brexit vote, I would like a solution which is as close as we can be to what we have now except being members of the EU.

    The referendum only gave one verdict: This country should leave the EU.

    No other question was asked. By implication, Parliament was given the authority to sort out the details.

    If we had [almost] unfettered access to the Single Market and the best FoM policy we could get, about 60/70% of the country would go with it. Remember 48% voted for the status quo.

    The Brexit vote will still be honoured. We cannot go on about what each voter who voted Leave were thinking about. Virtually, every one had a different idea.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028

    Pulpstar said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    EXCLUSIVE: UKIP Executive Says Leadership Candidates Must Be 5-Year-Long Party Members https://t.co/t8SNu6IeMN https://t.co/Dqqq0oL7cw

    Narrows the field just a tad – are those still on parole eligible?
    Steven Woolfe eligible under this criteria
    13% of the vote and third place in Stockport apparently.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockport_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
    UKIP would have a majority of about a hundred if they held Stockport.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,949
    edited July 2016
    jonny83 said:

    Sky saying Her Majesty is due in London on Thursday. Probably going to happen then.

    One last "swan song" PMQ's for Cam... Guess he doesn't want his last "set piece" to be getting booed at Wimbledon? ;)
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    JackW said:

    jonny83 said:

    Sky saying Her Majesty is due in London on Thursday. Probably going to happen then.

    Thursday would appear fitting. No unseemly rush. Cameron does a valedictory PMQ's, May has a few days to decide on a cabinet and the test match at Lords begins.

    Political history and leather on willow in one day. Splendid .. :smile:
    Amir coming into bowl.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    Martin Boon

    Today as good a day as any to launch tweaked online polling methods. New t/o weighting & political interest weight intro.

    Pre-Leadsom VI (8-10th): @Conservatives 38%, @UKLabour 30%, @LibDems 8%, @UKIP 15%, @theSNP 5%, Green 4%, @Plaid_Cymru 1%, Other *%.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,981

    Anyone else got a problem with bbc news 24 live on iplayer?

    It's been on the blink for a couple of weeks now, when you try to find the political news all you get is some ridiculously unbelievable political drama series.
    LOL

    Henry
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,578
    Pong said:

    @benrileysmith: Labour MP: "Willfully charging into a general election now is the equivalent of running full pelt off the edge of a cliff."

    And May won't have a meaningful majority.

    I can't see why she wouldn't call an election straight away.

    >50% chance of another election this year, IMO.
    +1

    The risk of Brexit turning sour by next year is too great not to go for it in the autumn IMHO
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,342
    AndyJS said:

    Did those with bets on Leadsom manage to cash out in time?

    Nope - was in a meeting while the announcement happened :(
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,217
    matt said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    taffys said:

    ''I do not think UKIP will benefit at all from this as regards the Tories - possibly from Labour but my feeling is the party will gradually fade away now. ''

    LOL

    I've just bunged some money towards UKIP. Not at all impressed.
    Is that compatible with being a Conservative member?
    Is joining the Labour party to vote in their election? It's not just rules but conscience.
    I didn't condone that. It was stupid.

    On that matter, wasn't there evidence afterwards that more Greens did it than Conservatives?
This discussion has been closed.