If they want to pull up Farage for his poster then they should talk to Farage about it, rather than the one man who didn't mention immigration throughout the campaign.
This is the amazing thing about the Leave campaign, nobody seems to be responsible for it. Hannan knew perfectly well what message they were sending, it was perfectly open to him to say that his proposed plan didn't make any difference to immigration. Of course he didn't do that, he was happy to collect the votes of people who didn't want immigration and let the voters find out later.
It's not racist or xenophobic to mention that increasing the population by a third of a million per year is stretching life to breaking point in certain areas.
If you think the campaign was all about population, why were they running posters of lines of brown people who aren't in the UK, when most of the EU population increase was white people who are?
It wasn't the Vote Leave Campaign that ran that poster, it was Farage and Aaron Banks doing it off their own backs.
Some remain campaigners think we should join the Euro, should that mean that if Remain had won we should have been asking everyone who campaigned for Remain why some of them said that?
That was indeed the SDP experience. And they had Roy Jenkins, David Owen and Shirley Williams leading them (and of course Bill Rogers). Real heavyweights, especially in Roy's case!
I think the lessons are mostly applicable but the branding is probably not as strong now as it was back in the day.
It's important to note that there are two different groups of rebels - people like Southam who disapprove of Corbyn and/or his policies and think he shouldn't be PM and people who don't feel that but just think he's not doing well and they need a (so far unspecified) more popular leader. Most of the resignation letters are in the latter category.
If he's re-elected, the first group really need to go - perhaps by forming another party - if they're honest. The second group will shake their collective head dubiously but can honestly stand on the Labour ticket, if they want to.
No, I think Corbyn cannot be PM - that is a very important difference. I think he will delover electoral catastrophe for Labour and I think this country needs an effective opposition led by someone with the intellectual ability to adapt to a changing situation. It is not about policies, it is about Corbyn's total unsuitability to be the leader of a major political party that aspires to be an alternative government. I would take anyone but Corbyn. You would take nobody but Corbyn. My priority is a Labour government. Yours isn't.
If they want to pull up Farage for his poster then they should talk to Farage about it, rather than the one man who didn't mention immigration throughout the campaign.
This is the amazing thing about the Leave campaign, nobody seems to be responsible for it. Hannan knew perfectly well what message they were sending, it was perfectly open to him to say that his proposed plan didn't make any difference to immigration. Of course he didn't do that, he was happy to collect the votes of people who didn't want immigration and let the voters find out later.
It's not racist or xenophobic to mention that increasing the population by a third of a million per year is stretching life to breaking point in certain areas.
If you think the campaign was all about population, why were they running posters of lines of brown people who aren't in the UK, when most of the EU population increase was white people who are?
It wasn't the Vote Leave Campaign that ran that poster, it was Farage and Aaron Banks doing it off their own backs.
Some remain campaigners think we should join the Euro, should that mean that if Remain had won we should have been asking everyone who campaigned for Remain why some of them said that?
Yes, if the Liberal Democrats had been putting up posters with the Remain slogan asking people to vote Remain so that they could use the Euro, Lab and Con should certainly have said that no, even if Remain won, they wouldn't be joining the Euro.
The Labour Party could split and the rebels would need a new name but as pointed out up thread retaining the Labour name due to its "strong branding" would be really important to retain seats.
They have already had "New Labour" hence the convention is to go one step further so how about.
The still don't get it do they? The Guardian, Polly, Dawkins, 80% of Westminster. They still think that what happened on Thursday can somehow be ignored or reversed when the electorate comes to their "sense's".
This is possibly the defining moment of the 21st century for this country but they've not woken up to the new reality.
To his credit I think Cameron has but he is in the minority.</blockquote
It's possible the remainers and the waverers will come to their senses when someone of stature and leadership actually defines what Leave really means. We seem to have a panoply of positions on the Leave side that range from no negotiated single market access and no FoM all the way through to EUlite. So whilst 17 million were marking a cross against a single word I very much doubt any of them had a coherent view on what it really meant (by coherent I mean shared). So now we have posturing UKIP (with Farage doing his best to smooth our negotiation path) and a cowed Tory party that in parts seems to wish this whole thing would go away. Very much like the England football team - no post qualification plan, no clear strategy. No wonder the "soft" leavers (of which I'm sure there are a good many) are worried and a little remorseful. To me it seems like a god-awful cocktail of incompetence and hubris.
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Some remain campaigners think we should join the Euro, should that mean that if Remain had won we should have been asking everyone who campaigned for Remain why some of them said that?
The Labour Party could split and the rebels would need a new name but as pointed out up thread retaining the Labour name due to its "strong branding" would be really important to retain seats.
They have already had "New Labour" hence the convention is to go one step further so how about.
"New Improved Labour"
"New Improved Labour" - sounds like a drain cleaner. How about keeping the old name, but change the script. новый трудовой....