I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
I imagine they'll cut off London's energy, water and food supplies.
Good luck with an equivalent of the Berlin airlift.
Nice. So it seems that bullying is acceptable so long as it is the interests of the little Englanders. Good to remember next time one screams red faced about the behaviour of the Chancellor.
Disappointing to see you lose your enthusiasm so quickly for London uber alles. I was hoping you would turn the parks into allotments and the government offices, law courts, museums and art galleries into power stations. Because the government offices, law courts, museums and art galleries would be empty once they had relocated to England.
And its not bullying at all.
London can have the energy, water and food but at the price England charges.
Simple supply and demand - the basic law of free markets. And London is in favour of free markets isn't it ?
Russian tactics don't work too well, as Russia itself has found out. Alternative suppliers could be found soon enough if the carrot crunchers started playing silly buggers.
But don't worry, you can have the pound sterling. It won't be worth anything in your hands anyway.
I think the Independence for London movement has already given up.
And there was real potential for jollility - you could have dressed up as Dick Whittington with a bodyguard of Pearly Kings.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
Warwick and Leamington is a key marginal seat so that may distort your perception of local activity, being in a non-marginal seat at the last election I would say I have seen more activity at the referendum than I did then.
I would agree Leamington is probably the most likely area for Remain, Coventry I think will lean out
Wainbody, Earlsdon, St Michael's, Foleshill, Westwood "Remain" Binley, Wyken, Longford, Holbrook, Bablake, Woodlands, Upper/Lower Stoke "Leave" Bablake, Radford, Sherbourne unsure. Cheylesmore closest to the national average maybe ^^;
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
The problem with links 1 and 3 is that Lomé breached WTO rules, as ACP countries received terms that were not given to most-favoured nations like the USA. Therefore, they are asking for an unlawful status quo to continue instead of Cotonou, jeopardising EU trade with other countries. Link 2 is just nonsense; exporters in most African countries don't incur EU processed coffee tariffs.
Under the "Everything but Arms" initiative by the EU all exports (apart from arms) from 55 Least Developed Countries including 36 in Africa are tariff and quota free for export to the EU.
Once countries leave the LDC classification they fall into the larger trade deals. These require bilateral tariff reductions and also linked to development goals concerning corruption and rule of law relating to commercial practice.
Anyone who has had dealings with African Customs people can understand why they are reluctant to lose their sinecures that allow a lifestyle way beyond their official salaries! It is not out of concern for domestic industries that they want to maintain the power of their customs office. Indeed what oftem most irks small business people in Africa is the inability to import essential goods without paying off the customs officials.
Funny. You blame the Africans whilst the EU reports and the charities blame the EU policies.
If project fear is back firing in Scotland... Then remain are in trouble...
Just heard that my brother's job is at risk at a large employer in Edinburgh......not connected with the referendum as far as I can tell though. Very difficult to weigh up the mood. My gut instinct is that even now people are not quite ready to cross the barricades - I still favour a narrow 51-49 remain victory. If the referendum was being held next year once the sovereign debt crisis gets underway then I think it would be a slam dunk for leave. Elections everywhere are getting closer to producing the 'radical' result whether it be Hofer in Austria, Podemos in Spain, the left wing party in Portugal. Its a matter of when, not if when we get a change that launches the domino effect that will destroy the EU. I still think that comes next year, I don't quite sense the level of anger needed that any change is viewed as better than the perceived status quo. I hope I'm wrong....possibly just preparing myself so I won't feel too disappointed in 8 days time.
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
The problem with links 1 and 3 is that Lomé breached WTO rules, as ACP countries received terms that were not given to most-favoured nations like the USA. Therefore, they are asking for an unlawful status quo to continue instead of Cotonou, jeopardising EU trade with other countries. Link 2 is just nonsense; exporters in most African countries don't incur EU processed coffee tariffs.
Yes, they do. Most of the partnership agreements haven't been ratified. It is mostly talk while the EU continues its anti-development policy. Of course, most supporters of the Mosleyite unity of white European nations find that a feature not a bug.
The tariff-free conditions are in place or coming online. Assuming bad faith on the part of the EU, while the delays are evidently due to a lack of African leadership, is just tendentious.
I am not entirely convinced BlueKen is genuinely concerned with the plight of poor Africans. I think he is rather pleased with himself for inventing the Mosleyite EU line.
I have followed the debate about turnout with considerable interest as i have a tidy sum (for me) placed on TO being 60-65% But I am wondering should i start to rethink this??
On the turn out being higher side we have: Genuine political engagement by the population-anecdotes aside people are clearly starting to engage in a big way It is clearly going to be close so complacency will be reduced Both sides are ramping the noise up to 11
On the turn out lower: The GOTV operation for both sides has real issues to deal with; Neither side seems to have an effective data base as to who their supporters are-past election canvassing returns are almost redundant. Is Scotland referendumed out??
So Is GOTV THAT crucial?? Will both sides be more organised on the day that they currently seem?
Or is this really the BIG ONE that the electorate really want a say in-one way or the other??
Very slick Leave operation in my constituency for GOTV.
About as bland a comment as Miliband's million conversations. I think the GOTV operation for Brexit is based pretty much on hoping for the best
I could go into a lot more detail but don't want to
Tysons blase description of the midlands as representing the white British underclass tells you all you need to know about remains prospects. Though perhaps it is just that less wine ended up on that settee than we all feared?
OK- I'm using some humour to get the message across that I think leave's GOTV is built on weak foundations. Those people who are en masse say they are voting out...they do not see the most reliable.
Something, though is influencing the betting markets. That is the only thing I can think of.
1) The polls are wrong - in many people's eyes - look how they failed the 2015 election. 2) The polls are currently right but people will switch their vote for the 'Status Quo' - well they're not going to vote for the Boomtown Rats any more. 3) Those who would vote Leave will not turn out as much as those who would vote Remain - despite what the polls say. 4) Something will turn up for Remain that they are holding back on. 5) The EU will step in as a deus ex machina and promise the earth to forestall a Remain loss. 6) Someone is spending a lot of money to persuade people who believe that the bookies know what is going to happen that Leave has no chance and better vote for the winning side. 7) 'The Establishment' will take underhand steps to improve the number of votes they receive.
Good analysis. We establishment, elitist, remains still have a couple of levers to pull, or failing that we can fiddle the votes- and as a non democrat, I am more than happy with either. Obviously I would like to win fair and square, but failing that, fiddling the votes would't be so bad, would it?
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
Warwick and Leamington is a key marginal seat so that may distort your perception of local activity, being in a non-marginal seat at the last
It's not marginal anymore. There's a solid Tory majority.
It had a solid Labour majority in 2001 when I was there, it only has a solid Tory majority now as the Tories have a majority nationally. If Labour want to win a clear working majority they have to win seats like Warwick and Leamington
I have followed the debate about turnout with considerable interest as i have a tidy sum (for me) placed on TO being 60-65% But I am wondering should i start to rethink this??
On the turn out being higher side we have: Genuine political engagement by the population-anecdotes aside people are clearly starting to engage in a big way It is clearly going to be close so complacency will be reduced Both sides are ramping the noise up to 11
On the turn out lower: The GOTV operation for both sides has real issues to deal with; Neither side seems to have an effective data base as to who their supporters are-past election canvassing returns are almost redundant. Is Scotland referendumed out??
So Is GOTV THAT crucial?? Will both sides be more organised on the day that they currently seem?
Or is this really the BIG ONE that the electorate really want a say in-one way or the other??
Very slick Leave operation in my constituency for GOTV.
About as bland a comment as Miliband's million conversations. I think the GOTV operation for Brexit is based pretty much on hoping for the best
How many GOTV operations have you been involved it?
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
The problem with links 1 and 3 is that Lomé breached WTO rules, as ACP countries received terms that were not given to most-favoured nations like the USA. Therefore, they are asking for an unlawful status quo to continue instead of Cotonou, jeopardising EU trade with other countries. Link 2 is just nonsense; exporters in most African countries don't incur EU processed coffee tariffs.
There you go with your knowing what you're talking about nonsense again.
Don't you know that Richard spent ages on Google to get those links.
Actually they were part of a report I produced last year for briefing paper. Hence the reason they use the EU's own report as well as submissions from the Green party. But you just go right on believing you know what you are talking about and we will all carry on quietly sniggering at you.
If Alastair wants to form a political party to campaign for the independence of London, and -- after much work -- his party wins a plurality of the vote in London, then London should of course have its independence.
Of course, that’s a long hard slog & will involve much personal sacrifice -- but over to you, Alastair.
I have a lot of admiration for people like Nicola Sturgeon, who have devoted their life to an unfashionable cause, and by dint of hard slog seen it become popular.
I have perhaps not so much admiration for Nigel Farage, but he certainly has campaigned effectively to bring the issue of Europe to the fore. The fact that we have a referendum at all is in no small measure due to him.
Tysons blase description of the midlands as representing the white British underclass tells you all you need to know about remains prospects. Though perhaps it is just that less wine ended up on that settee than we all feared?
OK- I'm using some humour to get the message across that I think leave's GOTV is built on weak foundations. Those people who are en masse say they are voting out...they do not see the most reliable.
Something, though is influencing the betting markets. That is the only thing I can think of.
I doubt it. They're betting blind. And as a herd.
Remainers are still betting Southam. If I didn't see the betting markets I would think leave have already won, all over bar the counting. But, the betting markets tell a different story.
And the betting markets have never....never got it wrong.... OK they might have predicted that last election was hung, they still predicted that the Tories would be the largest party. That is why people like me made money.
Until there is genuine crossover, follow the markets, they know much better than you and I.
What utter nonsense.
The betting markets are not always right and don't gloss over the GE like that. The opportunity to be wrong increases dramatically when you have a vote that:
1. Has never occurred in anyone's lifetime 2. Is a straight either / or
There being no precedence for this vote the opportunity to be wrong is spectacular. You have been warned.
If project fear is back firing in Scotland... Then remain are in trouble...
This is a Mail story, the STV poll today showed Remain with a narrower lead in Scotland but still a comfortable one
Ah that one... Yes. Still narrowing the remain lead in Scotland is useful.
Its quite noticeable whenever I've been in Scotland that the level of immigration is a lot less than in other parts of the UK. Leave banging on about immigration isn't going to have the same resonance with the WWC up there when compared with England. I don't sense that there will be the big social class divide in remain / leave votes up there outside of the fishing communities such as Stonehaven, Peterhead and the Western Isles.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
Warwick and Leamington is a key marginal seat so that may distort your perception of local activity, being in a non-marginal seat at the last
It's not marginal anymore. There's a solid Tory majority.
It had a solid Labour majority in 2001 when I was there, it only has a solid Tory majority now as the Tories have a majority nationally. If Labour want to win a clear working majority they have to win seats like Warwick and Leamington
I see the Europhiles are now blaming the Africans for the EU keeping them poor. Of course, it was the fault of the blacks all along! It didn't take long for the racist attitudes to come out.
Osborne's "Punishment Budget" might just have sealed the deal for LEAVE...
That is why I am so furious with him and I want him out - and you may well be right
I'd have thought the last thing a decent chancellor would want to do is slam the brakes on consumption after the undoubted shock of exiting the EU.
His tone and attitude was just crass. You do not win your argument by bullying and he has completely lost me today, mind you he has been losing me for sometime and I am a remainer
Re. why the markets have behaved like this, I think it's based on the belief that status quo will win through and the Scottish indyref. Both are significantly flawed reasons in this vote.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington
Warwick and Leamington is a key marginal seat so that may distort your perception of local activity, being in a non-marginal seat at the last election I would say I have seen more activity at the referendum than I did then.
I would agree Leamington is probably the most likely area for Remain, Coventry I think will lean out
Wainbody, Earlsdon, St Michael's, Foleshill, Westwood "Remain" Binley, Wyken, Longford, Holbrook, Bablake, Woodlands, Upper/Lower Stoke "Leave" Bablake, Radford, Sherbourne unsure. Cheylesmore closest to the national average maybe ^^;
Sounds about right, Earlsdon is the 'poshest' bit of Coventry as much as you can have a posh part of Coventry so I expect that will go Remain
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
Warwick and Leamington is a key marginal seat so that may distort your perception of local activity, being in a non-marginal seat at the last
It's not marginal anymore. There's a solid Tory majority.
It had a solid Labour majority in 2001 when I was there, it only has a solid Tory majority now as the Tories have a majority nationally. If Labour want to win a clear working majority they have to win seats like Warwick and Leamington
Its on a lot better boundaries for Labour than it was in 2001 as well.
Tysons blase description of the midlands as representing the white British underclass tells you all you need to know about remains prospects. Though perhaps it is just that less wine ended up on that settee than we all feared?
OK- I'm using some humour to get the message across that I think leave's GOTV is built on weak foundations. Those people who are en masse say they are voting out...they do not see the most reliable.
Something, though is influencing the betting markets. That is the only thing I can think of.
1) The polls are wrong - in many people's eyes - look how they failed the 2015 election. 2) The polls are currently right but people will switch their vote for the 'Status Quo' - well they're not going to vote for the Boomtown Rats any more. 3) Those who would vote Leave will not turn out as much as those who would vote Remain - despite what the polls say. 4) Something will turn up for Remain that they are holding back on. 5) The EU will step in as a deus ex machina and promise the earth to forestall a Remain loss. 6) Someone is spending a lot of money to persuade people who believe that the bookies know what is going to happen that Leave has no chance and better vote for the winning side. 7) 'The Establishment' will take underhand steps to improve the number of votes they receive.
Good analysis. We establishment, elitist, remains still have a couple of levers to pull, or failing that we can fiddle the votes- and as a non democrat, I am more than happy with either. Obviously I would like to win fair and square, but failing that, fiddling the votes would't be so bad, would it?
I find your contempt for democracy disgraceful Tyson. The establishment 'we know better than the masses' essentially is the Marxist analysis. Its never worked once and it never will work once. Adam Smith's invisible hand with the inputs of the many will always do a better job and produce more desirable outcomes than the establishment dictatorship that you seem to favour.
I have followed the debate about turnout with considerable interest as i have a tidy sum (for me) placed on TO being 60-65% But I am wondering should i start to rethink this??
On the turn out being higher side we have: Genuine political engagement by the population-anecdotes aside people are clearly starting to engage in a big way It is clearly going to be close so complacency will be reduced Both sides are ramping the noise up to 11
On the turn out lower: The GOTV operation for both sides has real issues to deal with; Neither side seems to have an effective data base as to who their supporters are-past election canvassing returns are almost redundant. Is Scotland referendumed out??
So Is GOTV THAT crucial?? Will both sides be more organised on the day that they currently seem?
Or is this really the BIG ONE that the electorate really want a say in-one way or the other??
Very slick Leave operation in my constituency for GOTV.
About as bland a comment as Miliband's million conversations. I think the GOTV operation for Brexit is based pretty much on hoping for the best
How many GOTV operations have you been involved it?
Osborne's "Punishment Budget" might just have sealed the deal for LEAVE...
That is why I am so furious with him and I want him out - and you may well be right
I'd have thought the last thing a decent chancellor would want to do is slam the brakes on consumption after the undoubted shock of exiting the EU.
His tone and attitude was just crass. You do not win your argument by bullying and he has completely lost me today, mind you he has been losing me for sometime and I am a remainer
More evidence for my theory this is to take the heat off Cameron - sacking Osborne , his closest ally, would be a clear warning to him while being something remainers and leavers could agree on after a bitter vote.
Tysons blase description of the midlands as representing the white British underclass tells you all you need to know about remains prospects. Though perhaps it is just that less wine ended up on that settee than we all feared?
OK- I'm using some humour to get the message across that I think leave's GOTV is built on weak foundations. Those people who are en masse say they are voting out...they do not see the most reliable.
Something, though is influencing the betting markets. That is the only thing I can think of.
I doubt it. They're betting blind. And as a herd.
Remainers are still betting Southam. If I didn't see the betting markets I would think leave have already won, all over bar the counting. But, the betting markets tell a different story.
And the betting markets have never....never got it wrong.... OK they might have predicted that last election was hung, they still predicted that the Tories would be the largest party. That is why people like me made money.
Until there is genuine crossover, follow the markets, they know much better than you and I.
What utter nonsense.
The betting markets are not always right and don't gloss over the GE like that. The opportunity to be wrong increases dramatically when you have a vote that:
1. Has never occurred in anyone's lifetime 2. Is a straight either / or
There being no precedence for this vote the opportunity to be wrong is spectacular. You have been warned.
tyson is right about the Sindyref, which is probably the closest recent model. The betting odds were much more one sided than the polling. The bookies were right, indeed underestimated the No vote.
I am yet to see a poster of window sign or yard sign for either side in Leics. I did see a single albeit large one on the Isle of Wight for Leave last weekend. There have been odd discussions amongst staff and patients that I have overheard, but whether these represent anything other than opinionated loudmouths I do not know. My conclusion is that most Leavers and most Remainers are shy. Anything could happen, but I think Remain will prevail, though the betting value is on Leave.
London doesn't want or need independence from the UK as it's already " Sublimed " from it to use a SciFi reference. What would be useful though is start to refer to it as the Fifth ' Home Nation ' and England as rEngland.
Osborne's "Punishment Budget" might just have sealed the deal for LEAVE...
Now what would be funny is if Leave win and Osborne then reveals he had been on their side all along and had been making the Remain campaign as bad as possible.
A certain Birkenhead vintner would undergo spontaneous human combustion.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
I imagine they'll cut off London's energy, water and food supplies.
Good luck with an equivalent of the Berlin airlift.
Nice. So it seems that bullying is acceptable so long as it is the interests of the little Englanders. Good to remember next time one screams red faced about the behaviour of the Chancellor.
Disappointing to see you lose your enthusiasm so quickly for London uber alles. I was hoping you would turn the parks into allotments and the government offices, law courts, museums and art galleries into power stations. Because the government offices, law courts, museums and art galleries would be empty once they had relocated to England.
And its not bullying at all.
London can have the energy, water and food but at the price England charges.
Simple supply and demand - the basic law of free markets. And London is in favour of free markets isn't it ?
Russian tactics don't work too well, as Russia itself has found out. Alternative suppliers could be found soon enough if the carrot crunchers started playing silly buggers.
But don't worry, you can have the pound sterling. It won't be worth anything in your hands anyway.
Like the Remain campaign itself, a few months ago you were pretty astute, but now for no apparent reason aside from a couple of bad polls you seem to have gone completely mad. And (I'm a reluctant Remain voter myself) we haven't even lost yet. You're smart enough to know that talking about non-Londoners as carrot crunchers isn't exactly going to help win people over.
If project fear is back firing in Scotland... Then remain are in trouble...
This is a Mail story, the STV poll today showed Remain with a narrower lead in Scotland but still a comfortable one
Ah that one... Yes. Still narrowing the remain lead in Scotland is useful.
Its quite noticeable whenever I've been in Scotland that the level of immigration is a lot less than in other parts of the UK. Leave banging on about immigration isn't going to have the same resonance with the WWC up there when compared with England. I don't sense that there will be the big social class divide in remain / leave votes up there outside of the fishing communities such as Stonehaven, Peterhead and the Western Isles.
Resistance to immigration is highest in the East of England, which experiences the most immigration. Sturgeon and the Scots can be right-on and holier than thou about immigration because it barely impacts on Scotland. Net immigration into the UK is currently running at 350,000/year by official figures: how much of that goes to Scotland? Maybe the Scottish Excutive should be proactive in attracting a larger share of the burden?
Osborne's "Punishment Budget" might just have sealed the deal for LEAVE...
That is why I am so furious with him and I want him out - and you may well be right
I'd have thought the last thing a decent chancellor would want to do is slam the brakes on consumption after the undoubted shock of exiting the EU.
His tone and attitude was just crass. You do not win your argument by bullying and he has completely lost me today, mind you he has been losing me for sometime and I am a remainer
1 loyal 70 yr old party member said that Osborne had to be sacked. I was shocked.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
Warwick and Leamington is a key marginal seat so that may distort your perception of local activity, being in a non-marginal seat at the last
It's not marginal anymore. There's a solid Tory majority.
It had a solid Labour majority in 2001 when I was there, it only has a solid Tory majority now as the Tories have a majority nationally. If Labour want to win a clear working majority they have to win seats like Warwick and Leamington
Its on a lot better boundaries for Labour than it was in 2001 as well.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
Warwick and Leamington is a key marginal seat so that may distort your perception of local activity, being in a non-marginal seat at the last
It's not marginal anymore. There's a solid Tory majority.
It had a solid Labour majority in 2001
I agree. Corbyn Labour has no chance at all here.
Yes, though of course he has no chance nationally at the moment really either
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
Warwick and Leamington is a key marginal seat so that may distort your perception of local activity, being in a non-marginal seat at the last
It's not marginal anymore. There's a solid Tory majority.
It had a solid Labour majority in 2001 when I was there, it only has a solid Tory majority now as the Tories have a majority nationally. If Labour want to win a clear working majority they have to win seats like Warwick and Leamington
Its on a lot better boundaries for Labour than it was in 2001 as well.
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
The problem with links 1 and 3 is that Lomé breached WTO rules, as ACP countries received terms that were not given to most-favoured nations like the USA. Therefore, they are asking for an unlawful status quo to continue instead of Cotonou, jeopardising EU trade with other countries. Link 2 is just nonsense; exporters in most African countries don't incur EU processed coffee tariffs.
Under the "Everything but Arms" initiative by the EU all exports (apart from arms) from 55 Least Developed Countries including 36 in Africa are tariff and quota free for export to the EU.
Once countries leave the LDC classification they fall into the larger trade deals. These require bilateral tariff reductions and also linked to development goals concerning corruption and rule of law relating to commercial practice.
Anyone who has had dealings with African Customs people can understand why they are reluctant to lose their sinecures that allow a lifestyle way beyond their official salaries! It is not out of concern for domestic industries that they want to maintain the power of their customs office. Indeed what oftem most irks small business people in Africa is the inability to import essential goods without paying off the customs officials.
Funny. You blame the Africans whilst the EU reports and the charities blame the EU policies.
I blame some African custom officials for feathering their own nests at the expense of their own citizens. Tariff and non-tariff barriers are a major constraint on Africa, though growth there is strong in the less corrupt parts.
Could the deals be improved and the EBA agreements spread more widely? Yes they could. This is an area that the UK could continue to lead on on behalf of the EU - if we Remain.
(I am of course touched that so many right wing PBers are so concerned at the plight of the peoples of africa. It is like their conversion to the cause of the NHS and the WWC - a wonder to behold!)
Osborne's "Punishment Budget" might just have sealed the deal for LEAVE...
That is why I am so furious with him and I want him out - and you may well be right
I'd have thought the last thing a decent chancellor would want to do is slam the brakes on consumption after the undoubted shock of exiting the EU.
His tone and attitude was just crass. You do not win your argument by bullying and he has completely lost me today, mind you he has been losing me for sometime and I am a remainer
1 loyal 70 yr old party member said that Osborne had to be sacked. I was shocked.
He has become a liability ever since tax credits and he must go and hopefully replaced with Gove post the 23rd. And by the way I still am a eurosceptic remainer
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the camp
Warwick
It's not marginal anymore. There's a solid Tory majority.
It had a solid Labour majority in 200
Its on a lot better boundaries for Labour than it was in 2001 as well.
The Tory majority went up. EdM was a disaster for round here. Corbyn is worse.
Indeed but the Labour majority also went up in 2001. Labour won by 11% then, the Tories by 13% in 2015 so not a vast difference, Hague and IDS went down almost as badly as EdM and Corbyn. I was a student Tory there at the time and it was not easy, indeed I remember campaigning with IDS in the election and a Hague rally nearby, David Campbell Bannermann was the candidate in 2001, he then went to UKIP and is now a Tory MEP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwick_and_Leamington_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
Osborne's "Punishment Budget" might just have sealed the deal for LEAVE...
That is why I am so furious with him and I want him out - and you may well be right
I'd have thought the last thing a decent chancellor would want to do is slam the brakes on consumption after the undoubted shock of exiting the EU.
His tone and attitude was just crass. You do not win your argument by bullying and he has completely lost me today, mind you he has been losing me for sometime and I am a remainer
1 loyal 70 yr old party member said that Osborne had to be sacked. I was shocked.
Well Mr Osborne still has a £75bn hole after 6 or 7 years of so called recovery. And he doesn't ever intend to pay any of the debt back. He should have been asked about that before any £30bn consideration......which is a total fabrication. How on earth he thought that scare story was going to work I have absolutely no idea.
Tysons blase description of the midlands as representing the white British underclass tells you all you need to know about remains prospects. Though perhaps it is just that less wine ended up on that settee than we all feared?
OK- I'm using some humour to get the message across that I think leave's GOTV is built on weak foundations. Those people who are en masse say they are voting out...they do not see the most reliable.
Something, though is influencing the betting markets. That is the only thing I can think of.
I doubt it. They're betting blind. And as a herd.
Remainers are still betting Southam. If I didn't see the betting markets I would think leave have already won, all over bar the counting. But, the betting markets tell a different story.
And the betting markets have never....never got it wrong.... OK they might have predicted that last election was hung, they still predicted that the Tories would be the largest party. That is why people like me made money.
Until there is genuine crossover, follow the markets, they know much better than you and I.
What utter nonsense.
The betting markets are not always right and don't gloss over the GE like that. The opportunity to be wrong increases dramatically when you have a vote that:
1. Has never occurred in anyone's lifetime 2. Is a straight either / or
There being no precedence for this vote the opportunity to be wrong is spectacular. You have been warned.
tyson is right about the Sindyref, which is probably the closest recent model. The betting odds were much more one sided than the polling. The bookies were right, indeed underestimated the No vote.
Correlating the Scottish indyref to the EU ref is fraught with peril. There are all sorts of reasons not to do so, amongst them the media. The whole style of this Remain campaign has been the opposite of what they did north of the border. But sometimes you also just need to take a step back and ask a basic question. You don't need to be a psephologist to see the difference. Do most people here like the UK? Yes. Do most people here like the EU? No.
Very interesting bit on the podcast on the salience of immigration vs the economy. Remarkably it seems that immigration has the slightly greater resonance. I'm sceptical of that, nearly always economics trumps everything else.
The problem with links 1 and 3 is that Lomé breached WTO rules, as ACP countries received terms that were not given to most-favoured nations like the USA. Therefore, they are asking for an unlawful status quo to continue instead of Cotonou, jeopardising EU trade with other countries. Link 2 is just nonsense; exporters in most African countries don't incur EU processed coffee tariffs.
Under the "Everything but Arms" initiative by the EU all exports (apart from arms) from 55 Least Developed Countries including 36 in Africa are tariff and quota free for export to the EU.
Once countries leave the LDC classification they fall into the larger trade deals. These require bilateral tariff reductions and also linked to development goals concerning corruption and rule of law relating to commercial practice.
Anyone who has had dealings with African Customs people can understand why they are reluctant to lose their sinecures that allow a lifestyle way beyond their official salaries! It is not out of concern for domestic industries that they want to maintain the power of their customs office. Indeed what oftem most irks small business people in Africa is the inability to import essential goods without paying off the customs officials.
Funny. You blame the Africans whilst the EU reports and the charities blame the EU policies.
I blame some African custom officials for feathering their own nests at the expense of their own citizens. Tariff and non-tariff barriers are a major constraint on Africa, though growth there is strong in the less corrupt parts.
Could the deals be improved and the EBA agreements spread more widely? Yes they could. This is an area that the UK could continue to lead on on behalf of the EU - if we Remain.
(I am of course touched that so many right wing PBers are so concerned at the plight of the peoples of africa. It is like their conversion to the cause of the NHS and the WWC - a wonder to behold!)
There are 4 reasons to be concerned with African poverty.
1. Keeping people deliberately in poverty is immoral.
2. It is also costly. You either pay money to do it, or deny yourself cheaper product.
3. It causes mass migration which would otherwise not happen. Most people move for better opportunities. (Some just for a change of scene, or the like the country they are headed to)
4. It restricts your own access to market. Poor people do not have as much money to buy our stuff as rich people.
Only one of those is actually purely altruistic, the others have an element of (mutual) self interest.
Tysons blase description of the midlands as representing the white British underclass tells you all you need to know about remains prospects. Though perhaps it is just that less wine ended up on that settee than we all feared?
OK- I'm using some humour to get the message across that I think leave's GOTV is built on weak foundations. Those people who are en masse say they are voting out...they do not see the most reliable.
Something, though is influencing the betting markets. That is the only thing I can think of.
I doubt it. They're betting blind. And as a herd.
Remainers are still betting Southam. If I didn't see the betting markets I would think leave have already won, all over bar the counting. But, the betting markets tell a different story.
And the betting markets have never....never got it wrong.... OK they might have predicted that last election was hung, they still predicted that the Tories would be the largest party. That is why people like me made money.
Until there is genuine crossover, follow the markets, they know much better than you and I.
What utter nonsense.
The betting markets are not always right and don't gloss over the GE like that. The opportunity to be wrong increases dramatically when you have a vote that:
1. Has never occurred in anyone's lifetime 2. Is a straight either / or
There being no precedence for this vote the opportunity to be wrong is spectacular. You have been warned.
tyson is right about the Sindyref, which is probably the closest recent model. The betting odds were much more one sided than the polling. The bookies were right, indeed underestimated the No vote.
Correlating the Scottish indyref to the EU ref is fraught with peril. There are all sorts of reasons not to do so, amongst them the media. The whole style of this Remain campaign has been the opposite of what they did north of the border. But sometimes you also just need to take a step back and ask a basic question. You don't need to be a psephologist to see the difference. Do most people here like the UK? Yes. Do most people here like the EU? No.
Shadsy making a great point on how difficult outside the London bubble it is to get out of the remain mindset. Are the betting prices on remain a function of the big London money failing to see outside the London bubble? Its an interesting theory!
I always think its a dangerous situation for a country when its capital becomes so far removed from the rest of the country.
Shame he was, er, economical with the actualité about his father being put out of business by the EU, then economical with the actualité about the Guardian putting words in his father's mouth.
The whole style of this Remain campaign has been the opposite of what they did north of the border.
In what particular sense?
One was a positive campaign: based on the benefits of staying together The other is vituperous bile: based on fear
Cameron made a massive, massive, mistake with this. I'm assuming it was Lynton Crosby. You'd have thought after it backfired so horribly with Zac that they might have learned.
Shame he was, er, economical with the actualité about his father being put out of business by the EU, then economical with the actualité about the Guardian putting words in his father's mouth.
No worse than Osborne's ridiculous "punishment budget" which had completely fallen apart by 8am this morning!
The whole style of this Remain campaign has been the opposite of what they did north of the border.
In what particular sense?
One was a positive campaign: based on the benefits of staying together The other is vituperous bile: based on fear
Cameron made a massive, massive, mistake with this. I'm assuming it was Lynton Crosby. You'd have thought after it backfired so horribly with Zac that they might have learned.
So the campaign that coined the phrase 'Project Fear' as a description of itself and admitted that it "would Have Struggled To Win Without ‘Scaremongering’" was a positive campaign?
Shame he was, er, economical with the actualité about his father being put out of business by the EU, then economical with the actualité about the Guardian putting words in his father's mouth.
No worse than Osborne's ridiculous "punishment budget" which had completely fallen apart by 8am this morning!
Shame he was, er, economical with the actualité about his father being put out of business by the EU, then economical with the actualité about the Guardian putting words in his father's mouth.
No worse than Osborne's ridiculous "punishment budget" which had completely fallen apart by 8am this morning!
Osborne's "Punishment Budget" might just have sealed the deal for LEAVE...
That is why I am so furious with him and I want him out - and you may well be right
I'd have thought the last thing a decent chancellor would want to do is slam the brakes on consumption after the undoubted shock of exiting the EU.
His tone and attitude was just crass. You do not win your argument by bullying and he has completely lost me today, mind you he has been losing me for sometime and I am a remainer
More evidence for my theory this is to take the heat off Cameron - sacking Osborne , his closest ally, would be a clear warning to him while being something remainers and leavers could agree on after a bitter vote.
What a loyal trooper he is.
Is Osborne being played as a sacrificial rook as Zac was compared to a pawn ?
The whole style of this Remain campaign has been the opposite of what they did north of the border.
In what particular sense?
One was a positive campaign: based on the benefits of staying together The other is vituperous bile: based on fear
Cameron made a massive, massive, mistake with this. I'm assuming it was Lynton Crosby. You'd have thought after it backfired so horribly with Zac that they might have learned.
So the campaign that coined the phrase 'Project Fear' as a description of itself and admitted that it "would Have Struggled To Win Without ‘Scaremongering’" was a positive campaign?
“If the result is wrong – and Britain leaves – the fault is entirely David Cameron’s and the Tory Party’s. We have done everything to help Britain, gave them the best possible deal, but it was unrealistic to think they could change minds in three months. Really all we can do now is pray.”
“If the result is wrong – and Britain leaves – the fault is entirely David Cameron’s and the Tory Party’s. We have done everything to help Britain, gave them the best possible deal, but it was unrealistic to think they could change minds in three months. Really all we can do now is pray.”
“If the result is wrong – and Britain leaves – the fault is entirely David Cameron’s and the Tory Party’s. We have done everything to help Britain, gave them the best possible deal, but it was unrealistic to think they could change minds in three months. Really all we can do now is pray.”
That about sums it up.
Best possible deal my bum!
Indeed, and if that really is the opinion of our most senior partners in the EU, we are indeed far better off out than staying in as a resented and ineffectual partner.
The UK has been my home for the past 19 years and this is the first time that I have properly started to feel that I am not welcome here. And this sentiment is shared by many of the immigrants I know. It has always been a welcoming, tolerant, open-minded country but now large groups of people who have worked hard and have made a contribution to both the economy (by paying taxes, for instance) and society (by, for example, educating the next British generations) are being made to feel like intruders.
The UK has been my home for the past 19 years and this is the first time that I have properly started to feel that I am not welcome here. And this sentiment is shared by many of the immigrants I know. It has always been a welcoming, tolerant, open-minded country but now large groups of people who have worked hard and have made a contribution to both the economy (by paying taxes, for instance) and society (by, for example, educating the next British generations) are being made to feel like intruders.
The UK has been my home for just over 40 years and I completely disagree with this person. I shall be voting LEAVE next Thursday.
The UK has been my home for the past 19 years and this is the first time that I have properly started to feel that I am not welcome here. And this sentiment is shared by many of the immigrants I know. It has always been a welcoming, tolerant, open-minded country but now large groups of people who have worked hard and have made a contribution to both the economy (by paying taxes, for instance) and society (by, for example, educating the next British generations) are being made to feel like intruders.
The UK has been my home for just over 40 years and I completely disagree with this person. I shall be voting LEAVE next Thursday.
You didn't come here under free-movement within the EU.
The UK has been my home for the past 19 years and this is the first time that I have properly started to feel that I am not welcome here. And this sentiment is shared by many of the immigrants I know. It has always been a welcoming, tolerant, open-minded country but now large groups of people who have worked hard and have made a contribution to both the economy (by paying taxes, for instance) and society (by, for example, educating the next British generations) are being made to feel like intruders.
The UK has been my home for just over 40 years and I completely disagree with this person. I shall be voting LEAVE next Thursday.
The UK has been my home for the past 19 years and this is the first time that I have properly started to feel that I am not welcome here. And this sentiment is shared by many of the immigrants I know. It has always been a welcoming, tolerant, open-minded country but now large groups of people who have worked hard and have made a contribution to both the economy (by paying taxes, for instance) and society (by, for example, educating the next British generations) are being made to feel like intruders.
The UK has been my home for just over 40 years and I completely disagree with this person. I shall be voting LEAVE next Thursday.
You didn't come here under free-movement within the EU.
When I first arrived here in early 1976, I didn't speak a single word of English!
But that was probably because I was only four months old
I must congratulate bob geldof on contributing to the leave campaign today. That moment perfectly encapsulated just how out of touch our ruling class is with the ordinary people of Britain.
It's quite something for a legend of the punk revolution, general agitator and Irishman to boot to be classed as a ruler. But hey, whatever fits your meme.
And yes he's always been a bit of a knob.
Now, he's just a sad old sack.
In Organising Live/Band Aid he demonstrably did more good than most if not all of us will do in our lifetime. It was the original lets not forget. So I'll give him a pass.
But in wanting to Remain in the EU with its Common Agricultural Policy that does more damage to African farmers than all the good Band Aid ever did he is helping undo that legacy.
Scrapping the CAP and letting Africa trade with us on the same terms as Europe can will do more good than Band Aid ever could.
If you say so Philip, although I don't think Bozo and his pet lizard have African farmers in mind in making their pitch for out.
Whether they do or don't (I do) they have made that argument before.
Either way are you happy to keep Africa in penury with massive tariffs killing their development because a leaver may have impure thoughts?
Which EU tariffs are impeding African economic development?
The CAP. It effectively subsidizes European farmers at the expense of European consumers and non-EU producers. There is a lot of literature on this going way way back. I studied it during my MBA back in 1990
The UK has been my home for the past 19 years and this is the first time that I have properly started to feel that I am not welcome here. And this sentiment is shared by many of the immigrants I know. It has always been a welcoming, tolerant, open-minded country but now large groups of people who have worked hard and have made a contribution to both the economy (by paying taxes, for instance) and society (by, for example, educating the next British generations) are being made to feel like intruders.
The UK has been my home for just over 40 years and I completely disagree with this person. I shall be voting LEAVE next Thursday.
I must congratulate bob geldof on contributing to the leave campaign today. That moment perfectly encapsulated just how out of touch our ruling class is with the ordinary people of Britain.
It's quite something for a legend of the punk revolution, general agitator and Irishman to boot to be classed as a ruler. But hey, whatever fits your meme.
And yes he's always been a bit of a knob.
Now, he's just a sad old sack.
In Organising Live/Band Aid he demonstrably did more good than most if not all of us will do in our lifetime. It was the original lets not forget. So I'll give him a pass.
But in wanting to Remain in the EU with its Common Agricultural Policy that does more damage to African farmers than all the good Band Aid ever did he is helping undo that legacy.
Scrapping the CAP and letting Africa trade with us on the same terms as Europe can will do more good than Band Aid ever could.
If you say so Philip, although I don't think Bozo and his pet lizard have African farmers in mind in making their pitch for out.
Whether they do or don't (I do) they have made that argument before.
Either way are you happy to keep Africa in penury with massive tariffs killing their development because a leaver may have impure thoughts?
Which EU tariffs are impeding African economic development?
The CAP. It effectively subsidizes European farmers at the expense of European consumers and non-EU producers. There is a lot of literature on this going way way back. I studied it during my MBA back in 1990
Whatever the failings of the CAP, blaming it for poverty elsewhere in the world is pathetic. Are there no consumers outside Europe?
The UK has been my home for the past 19 years and this is the first time that I have properly started to feel that I am not welcome here. And this sentiment is shared by many of the immigrants I know. It has always been a welcoming, tolerant, open-minded country but now large groups of people who have worked hard and have made a contribution to both the economy (by paying taxes, for instance) and society (by, for example, educating the next British generations) are being made to feel like intruders.
The UK has been my home for just over 40 years and I completely disagree with this person. I shall be voting LEAVE next Thursday.
You didn't come here under free-movement within the EU.
When I first arrived here in early 1976, I didn't speak a single word of English!
But that was probably because I was only four months old
The UK has been my home for the past 19 years and this is the first time that I have properly started to feel that I am not welcome here. And this sentiment is shared by many of the immigrants I know. It has always been a welcoming, tolerant, open-minded country but now large groups of people who have worked hard and have made a contribution to both the economy (by paying taxes, for instance) and society (by, for example, educating the next British generations) are being made to feel like intruders.
The UK has been my home for just over 40 years and I completely disagree with this person. I shall be voting LEAVE next Thursday.
The UK has been my home for the past 19 years and this is the first time that I have properly started to feel that I am not welcome here. And this sentiment is shared by many of the immigrants I know. It has always been a welcoming, tolerant, open-minded country but now large groups of people who have worked hard and have made a contribution to both the economy (by paying taxes, for instance) and society (by, for example, educating the next British generations) are being made to feel like intruders.
The UK has been my home for just over 40 years and I completely disagree with this person. I shall be voting LEAVE next Thursday.
You didn't come here under free-movement within the EU.
When I first arrived here in early 1976, I didn't speak a single word of English!
But that was probably because I was only four months old
It's just dawned on me. If we do vote leave, what will happen to Blue Nun imports??
They'll turn green
O/T, but got my H1B application underway today!
The process has changed so much since I went through it 35 years ago. The next step after that is a green card, right?
Happy with your attorney?
Haven't seen the need to get one yet, although may look into it if things get weird. Given my employer deals with H1Bs all the time (a university), I don't suspect there will be too much of a problem.
Permanent residency would be nice, but probably the final stop. I am a loyal subject of HM, and don't think I will ever be able to part with my British passport!
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And there was real potential for jollility - you could have dressed up as Dick Whittington with a bodyguard of Pearly Kings.
Binley, Wyken, Longford, Holbrook, Bablake, Woodlands, Upper/Lower Stoke "Leave"
Bablake, Radford, Sherbourne unsure.
Cheylesmore closest to the national average maybe ^^;
Good analysis. We establishment, elitist, remains still have a couple of levers to pull, or failing that we can fiddle the votes- and as a non democrat, I am more than happy with either.
Obviously I would like to win fair and square, but failing that, fiddling the votes would't be so bad, would it?
I always worry when a PBer disappears for a long time.
If Alastair wants to form a political party to campaign for the independence of London, and -- after much work -- his party wins a plurality of the vote in London, then London should of course have its independence.
Of course, that’s a long hard slog & will involve much personal sacrifice -- but over to you, Alastair.
I have a lot of admiration for people like Nicola Sturgeon, who have devoted their life to an unfashionable cause, and by dint of hard slog seen it become popular.
I have perhaps not so much admiration for Nigel Farage, but he certainly has campaigned effectively to bring the issue of Europe to the fore. The fact that we have a referendum at all is in no small measure due to him.
Let’s see what Meeks can do.
The betting markets are not always right and don't gloss over the GE like that. The opportunity to be wrong increases dramatically when you have a vote that:
1. Has never occurred in anyone's lifetime
2. Is a straight either / or
There being no precedence for this vote the opportunity to be wrong is spectacular. You have been warned.
Maybe ask them what they are planning on doing.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/guide/seat-profiles/warwickandleamingtonspa/
What a loyal trooper he is.
I am yet to see a poster of window sign or yard sign for either side in Leics. I did see a single albeit large one on the Isle of Wight for Leave last weekend. There have been odd discussions amongst staff and patients that I have overheard, but whether these represent anything other than opinionated loudmouths I do not know. My conclusion is that most Leavers and most Remainers are shy. Anything could happen, but I think Remain will prevail, though the betting value is on Leave.
A certain Birkenhead vintner would undergo spontaneous human combustion.
Like the Remain campaign itself, a few months ago you were pretty astute, but now for no apparent reason aside from a couple of bad polls you seem to have gone completely mad. And (I'm a reluctant Remain voter myself) we haven't even lost yet. You're smart enough to know that talking about non-Londoners as carrot crunchers isn't exactly going to help win people over.
Thought not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPyYP8sjWBc
1.2m on betfair as opposed to over 3m in the previous 24 hours.
The price movements are less relevant with low vols
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/guide/labour-target-seats/
Could the deals be improved and the EBA agreements spread more widely? Yes they could. This is an area that the UK could continue to lead on on behalf of the EU - if we Remain.
(I am of course touched that so many right wing PBers are so concerned at the plight of the peoples of africa. It is like their conversion to the cause of the NHS and the WWC - a wonder to behold!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwick_and_Leamington_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
http://iceagenow.info/record-cold-antarctica/
or maybe not!
I vote that we should send the global warmist apologists such as Fearsum Engineeja and Mukesh out to Antartica to learn about the weather!
1. Keeping people deliberately in poverty is immoral.
2. It is also costly. You either pay money to do it, or deny yourself cheaper product.
3. It causes mass migration which would otherwise not happen. Most people move for better opportunities. (Some just for a change of scene, or the like the country they are headed to)
4. It restricts your own access to market. Poor people do not have as much money to buy our stuff as rich people.
Only one of those is actually purely altruistic, the others have an element of (mutual) self interest.
I always think its a dangerous situation for a country when its capital becomes so far removed from the rest of the country.
A huge cheer and applause for his climax!
Good night all.
BeLEAVE.
I am not confident enough to stake money on this one. I suspect that there will be a big swing to status quo as the pencil hovers over the ballot.
The other is vituperous bile: based on fear
Cameron made a massive, massive, mistake with this. I'm assuming it was Lynton Crosby. You'd have thought after it backfired so horribly with Zac that they might have learned.
Its really gonna hurt after brexit when we terminate our contributions to their diamond encrusted pensions .
Yippee.
That about sums it up.
https://talkarttalksociety.wordpress.com/2016/06/13/who-scares-wins-the-unintended-political-consequences-of-the-british-eu-referendum-debate/
The UK has been my home for the past 19 years and this is the first time that I have properly started to feel that I am not welcome here. And this sentiment is shared by many of the immigrants I know. It has always been a welcoming, tolerant, open-minded country but now large groups of people who have worked hard and have made a contribution to both the economy (by paying taxes, for instance) and society (by, for example, educating the next British generations) are being made to feel like intruders.
But that was probably because I was only four months old
Happy with your attorney?
I'll kipper close eye on the result.
Permanent residency would be nice, but probably the final stop. I am a loyal subject of HM, and don't think I will ever be able to part with my British passport!