Tata Steel have written to their staff confirming the need to stay in the EU. Could have a big influence in South Wales and the Valleys for remain
Stephen Kinnock is the MP for Aberavon.
The TATA / Remain letter reads something along the lines of 'Vote Remain to keep the steelworks alive and all 300 members of my family employed in Brussels".
I don't think the steelworkers will see it that way. Stephen Kinnock is fighting very hard for the steelworkers jobs and production at Port Talbot
Well how will staying in the EU help that out - with the rules against subsidising loss-making industry (Unless you're French or German)?
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The wealthy areas around London should probably still be considered with it. Oxon, Surrey and Berks (& others) are all going to go remain as far as I can tell.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
The referendum is not decided in the betting office - only the polling booth.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
London friends are moving to Manningtree and are unhappy at the amount of Leave posters up among their soon-to-be neighbours!!
Shadsy, to be fair to him, points out that it's psychologically difficult for him to see anything other than a Remain win because he lives in Southwark and it's covered in Remain posters.
I might believe this, were it not for the fact I seem to attract Remainers wherever I go in the country.
If they are thrown out of the Euro finals and banned from the Olympics (possible) there will be a move to boycott the finals. Just the excuse for Putin to flex his muscles into the Baltic States
I feel like Jim Carry in 'The Mask' when his eyes bugged out of their sockets.
So, Mrs May, our HOME SECRETARY SINCE THE 12th MAY 2010, now feels it would be lovely to let fewer people in. Why didn't you say so before Theresa? I'll get right on it.
I find the Remain preference for "protect our farmers by keeping the wogs poor" most distasteful.
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Tariffs still very much exist on agricultural produce to Europe fron Africa post-Cotonou.
As far as I can tell, thanks to Cotonou, most African countries wouldn't even face EU tariffs when exporting thrice-roasted coffee with a pink bow on top...
I understand from twitter that the Royal Northern College of Music held its own EU referendum among students and staff and Leave won with 56% of the vote. A thin straw in the wind ofcourse but suprising if the country as a whole is about to vote Remain.
I suspect that there'll be a massive regional split. Most of the north will go for leave, in order for Remain to still win, places like Berks/Bucks/Oxon must all go by a decent margin to Remain, and I'm not convinced that they will.
Just listened to a British jeweller in Leicester of Ugandan/Indian origin talking of his pride in how we ruled much of the world... Nasty white imperialist?
Tata Steel have written to their staff confirming the need to stay in the EU. Could have a big influence in South Wales and the Valleys for remain
Stephen Kinnock is the MP for Aberavon.
The TATA / Remain letter reads something along the lines of 'Vote Remain to keep the steelworks alive and all 300 members of my family employed in Brussels".
I don't think the steelworkers will see it that way. Stephen Kinnock is fighting very hard for the steelworkers jobs and production at Port Talbot
I think the steelworkers know what their fate is likely to be.
They saw what happened at Longbridge when Rover collapsed into financial ruin before the 2005 election. Warm promises before the election, concerned pols rushing to the Midlands, 30 k jobs lost after the election.
Kinnock is just toying with them, like a cat playing with its prey.
@nicholaswatt: Former attorney general Dominic Grieve tells me @vote_leave Brexit blueprint could lead to 'chaotic ejection' for UK from EU 1/2
@nicholaswatt: Grieve: enacting some legislation to downgrade EU undertakings before formal departure could place UK in breach of EU treaty obligations 2/2
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
I suspect that there's an awful lot of shy remainers/leavers. Quite often when the referendum is brought up you see the whole group go for one of the options. I suspect that there may be quite a few London professionals who'll have a dirty little 'leave' secret come the Friday after voting.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
I learnt long ago that gamblers are not stupid. That is what drew me to pbCOM in 2004 when I first came here, when a day's thread consisted of 50 or so posts from a few of us dedicated posters. But, after 1992 when the polls were wrong, the gamblers were right...and that is why I have followed the money. The 2015 markets all had the Tories as the largest party, going against the polls.
2-1 on are very strong odds of what is likely happen, and I think a lot of the sentimental cash is going to leave which makes this figure (2-1 on) even more realistic.
I find the Remain preference for "protect our farmers by keeping the wogs poor" most distasteful.
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Tariffs still very much exist on agricultural produce to Europe fron Africa post-Cotonou.
As far as I can tell, thanks to Cotonou, most African countries wouldn't even face EU tariffs when exporting thrice-roasted coffee with a pink bow on top...
Why don't you check the percentage of African population in nations that the EU has actually ratified partnership agreements with?
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I wish that I had your confidence. In the polling booth I reckon that ~10%+ of leavers will grab nanny and tick the top box.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Most interesting thing on the Telegraph front page is the sub-article.
They are starting to talk about how it would be better for Britain to be outside the EU, "it might be better to have a reluctant player outside the tent", "it will make the EU stronger", "EU will find new identity", "deepen in monetary union and defence", "draw new members in", "British membership is 50/50 positive/negative anyway", "life will have to go on afterwards", and Juncker is busy phoning around making contingency plans.
It sounds like the EU is already ready to move on, and cracks are appearing in Project Terror.
@nicholaswatt: Former attorney general Dominic Grieve tells me @vote_leave Brexit blueprint could lead to 'chaotic ejection' for UK from EU 1/2
@nicholaswatt: Grieve: enacting some legislation to downgrade EU undertakings before formal departure could place UK in breach of EU treaty obligations 2/2
So Brussels kick us out early...
No - today's Leave manifesto was just another set of promises that will not be delivered. They're saying what's necessary to win and will start again on 24th June. Buy shares in Betrayal.
Certainly, it is hard to see how all the most dedicated leavers can be right about our post-Brexit future. Leave the economic forecasts to one side, there’s no way leftist Leavers who deplore the ‘neoliberal’ excesses of the EU and dream of one future outwith its clutches can be reconciled with the actual neoliberals – such as Douglas Carswell and Daniel Hannan – who have provided so much of the intellectual ballast for the Leave campaign. Then again it’s hard to square Hannan, who thinks current levels of immigration are roughly appropriate, with a Leave campaign whose central message is, in essence, If you want a Turk for a neighbour, vote Remain. (Sometimes this, it is true, gets a more nuanced presentation: we don’t want unskilled Poles but we do want skilled Pakistanis. If you believe this, then you’ll believe anything.)
But I cannot avoid the thought that while many of them may have a coherent intellectual case against the EU, what really motivates so many other Leavers is something else: a much more narrow conception of Britain and Britishness than the one I find attractive. A conception that thinks Britain is broken, that she has been betrayed, that there is something dismal about the modern world, that something has been stolen from them, that so many of the things that make Britain a success – its relaxed and liberal internationalism – are instead signs of failure and national capitulation. I just don’t think any of that is true. Nor do I ascribe Britain’s successes to the EU – though I don’t believe it has hurt – but I can’t help thinking that Leave is a kind of Retreat. And an unnecessary one at that.
- Iraq - Afghanistan - Isis at home and abroad - The indisciminate craziness in the Middle East, including Syria - Refugee crisis - Youth unemployment at 50% in Spain and Greece - Austerity at home and pressure on public services from 350,000 net immigration - Housing crisis - Etc etc etc
Tata Steel have written to their staff confirming the need to stay in the EU. Could have a big influence in South Wales and the Valleys for remain
Stephen Kinnock is the MP for Aberavon.
The TATA / Remain letter reads something along the lines of 'Vote Remain to keep the steelworks alive and all 300 members of my family employed in Brussels".
I don't think the steelworkers will see it that way. Stephen Kinnock is fighting very hard for the steelworkers jobs and production at Port Talbot
Well how will staying in the EU help that out - with the rules against subsidising loss-making industry (Unless you're French or German)?
I can't comment but Tata are saying it and I would trust their knowledge, the Union rep and Stephen Kinnock's on this subject
Pity they look like any bunch of London kids on the Thames having fun with grandad, rather than millionaires. Dare I say there is a mite of an iota of a grain of wishful thinking going on among LEAVE re this photo. The ordinary person will not go to great efforts to read negativity into it.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Tata Steel have written to their staff confirming the need to stay in the EU. Could have a big influence in South Wales and the Valleys for remain
Stephen Kinnock is the MP for Aberavon.
The TATA / Remain letter reads something along the lines of 'Vote Remain to keep the steelworks alive and all 300 members of my family employed in Brussels".
I don't think the steelworkers will see it that way. Stephen Kinnock is fighting very hard for the steelworkers jobs and production at Port Talbot
I know. I'm arsing about.
The EU rules don't exactly help Tata mind you. The government's hands are basically tied.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
Didn't you say at the last GE that labour can do this(win it) ?
I feel like Jim Carry in 'The Mask' when his eyes bugged out of their sockets.
So, Mrs May, our HOME SECRETARY SINCE THE 12th MAY 2010, now feels it would be lovely to let fewer people in. Why didn't you say so before Theresa? I'll get right on it.
I guess she didn't take kindly to the Posh Boys threats this morning!
Love it if she came out for leave just before the vote,if the rumours are true on cameron sacking her - Go for it Theresa.
You are deluded. Cameron won't sack May. She is loyal and hard working. She has a strong Eurosceptic streak which would make her ideal to succeed Cameron when he steps down.
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
1. It isn't xenophobia.
2. You don't have a choice.
I see. So you are sole arbiter of what constitutes a demos? Interesting. Democracy is strictly defined on Leavers' terms. Doesn't sound very democratic.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
Comres today has Leave with a comfortable lead in the Midlands and indeed in England as a whole but Remain still wins, just, because of Scotland
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
Didn't you say at the last GE that labour can do this(win it) ?
No, I said I could not see how Labour could possibly win and that they'd do very badly in the Midlands.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
I'm not sure whether this has been discussed or not, apparently TNS' latest poll (47-40 for leave) had a methodology change - under the old methodology it would have been a ten (10!) point lead for leave.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
1. It isn't xenophobia.
2. You don't have a choice.
I see. So you are sole arbiter of what constitutes a demos? Interesting. Democracy is strictly defined on Leavers' terms. Doesn't sound very democratic.
PS the poster campaign is xenophobic.
No. You don't have a choice, and London can't leave the UK.
You on the other hand are more than welcome to. Go on.
I understand from twitter that the Royal Northern College of Music held its own EU referendum among students and staff and Leave won with 56% of the vote. A thin straw in the wind ofcourse but suprising if the country as a whole is about to vote Remain.
I suspect that there'll be a massive regional split. Most of the north will go for leave, in order for Remain to still win, places like Berks/Bucks/Oxon must all go by a decent margin to Remain, and I'm not convinced that they will.
I can't see the Midlands being as close as 52-48, I think "leave" will win by alot more.
\
That's provided they're not so pissed up, or got caught up in better things like watching Big Brother, or they've forgotten the day.
I'm relying on the fact that the white British underclass behave true to form and at the end of the day would rather stay at home and get pissed and watch porn eating pot noodles rather than bothering to walk about half a mile to kick out the immigrants.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
Curious, it is Leavers who are very keen on slashing and burning the aid budget.
I come back to the same point: why shouldn't a clearly defined entity with a distinct culture and a very viable economy be allowed to go its own way?
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
Didn't you say at the last GE that labour can do this(win it) ?
No, I said I could not see how Labour could possibly win and that they'd do very badly in the Midlands.
I thought just before the GE when the polls were good for labour ?
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
Please. Africa is not poor because of EU tariffs that mostly don't even exist under Cotonou. It is poor because of "glorious" Empire followed by kleptocracy.
I have followed the debate about turnout with considerable interest as i have a tidy sum (for me) placed on TO being 60-65% But I am wondering should i start to rethink this??
On the turn out being higher side we have: Genuine political engagement by the population-anecdotes aside people are clearly starting to engage in a big way It is clearly going to be close so complacency will be reduced Both sides are ramping the noise up to 11
On the turn out lower: The GOTV operation for both sides has real issues to deal with; Neither side seems to have an effective data base as to who their supporters are-past election canvassing returns are almost redundant. Is Scotland referendumed out??
So Is GOTV THAT crucial?? Will both sides be more organised on the day that they currently seem?
Or is this really the BIG ONE that the electorate really want a say in-one way or the other??
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
Didn't you say at the last GE that labour can do this(win it) ?
No, I said I could not see how Labour could possibly win and that they'd do very badly in the Midlands.
I thought just before the GE when the polls were good for labour ?
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
I imagine they'll cut off London's energy, water and food supplies.
Good luck with an equivalent of the Berlin airlift.
I understand from twitter that the Royal Northern College of Music held its own EU referendum among students and staff and Leave won with 56% of the vote. A thin straw in the wind ofcourse but suprising if the country as a whole is about to vote Remain.
I suspect that there'll be a massive regional split. Most of the north will go for leave, in order for Remain to still win, places like Berks/Bucks/Oxon must all go by a decent margin to Remain, and I'm not convinced that they will.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
1. It isn't xenophobia.
2. You don't have a choice.
I see. So you are sole arbiter of what constitutes a demos? Interesting. Democracy is strictly defined on Leavers' terms. Doesn't sound very democratic.
PS the poster campaign is xenophobic.
No. You don't have a choice, and London can't leave the UK.
You on the other hand are more than welcome to. Go on.
Ducking the point. Why is your definition of demos unquestionable?
Other than the fact that you expect Londoners to pay for your hobby horse, a hobby horse they don't support and that is actively damaging to them?
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
I imagine they'll cut off London's energy, water and food supplies.
Good luck with an equivalent of the Berlin airlift.
Nice. So it seems that bullying is acceptable so long as it is the interests of the little Englanders. Good to remember next time one screams red faced about the behaviour of the Chancellor.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
Curious, it is Leavers who are very keen on slashing and burning the aid budget.
I come back to the same point: why shouldn't a clearly defined entity with a distinct culture and a very viable economy be allowed to go its own way?
The aid budget is poorly spent and stymies development, as Nobel prize winner Angus Deayton has shown. Trade helps development but the Eurocrats and their followers are happy to keep black people in destitution. I refuse to have anything to do with them.
But while some barriers persist, the move over the last decades by the EU has been to lower tariffs with african producers, with many having gone completely. The process is tied to aid and assistance with the explicit aim of developing indiginous african industries. There does need to be more work on non-tariff barriers too, and the amount of time taken is a salutory lesson on how protracted such trade deals can become.
I am glad that UK influence has had such a positive role in this aspect of EU trade policy. Hundreds of millions of Africans and Europeans will benefit.
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
Curious, it is Leavers who are very keen on slashing and burning the aid budget.
I come back to the same point: why shouldn't a clearly defined entity with a distinct culture and a very viable economy be allowed to go its own way?
The aid budget is poorly spent and stymies development, as Nobel prize winner Angus Deayton has shown. Trade helps development but the Eurocrats and their followers are happy to keep black people in destitution. I refuse to have anything to do with them.
Do you gave a little sticker in the back of your car that says "EU power? No thanks"?
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
Curious, it is Leavers who are very keen on slashing and burning the aid budget.
I come back to the same point: why shouldn't a clearly defined entity with a distinct culture and a very viable economy be allowed to go its own way?
The aid budget is poorly spent and stymies development, as Nobel prize winner Angus Deayton has shown. Trade helps development but the Eurocrats and their followers are happy to keep black people in destitution. I refuse to have anything to do with them.
Presumably you're a supporter of white farmers having their land confiscated in Zimbabwe.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Tysons blase description of the midlands as representing the white British underclass tells you all you need to know about remains prospects. Though perhaps it is just that less wine ended up on that settee than we all feared?
Anecdote alert: the cleverest chap I know has just decided to share an awful lot of detailed anti-Brexit reports. He rarely pastes on Fb at all - other than holiday pics. He is very perceptive, and I'm guessing he is starting to worry that it might be Leave.
I suspect this realisation is going to sink in to more Remainers in the coming days....
I have followed the debate about turnout with considerable interest as i have a tidy sum (for me) placed on TO being 60-65% But I am wondering should i start to rethink this??
On the turn out being higher side we have: Genuine political engagement by the population-anecdotes aside people are clearly starting to engage in a big way It is clearly going to be close so complacency will be reduced Both sides are ramping the noise up to 11
On the turn out lower: The GOTV operation for both sides has real issues to deal with; Neither side seems to have an effective data base as to who their supporters are-past election canvassing returns are almost redundant. Is Scotland referendumed out??
So Is GOTV THAT crucial?? Will both sides be more organised on the day that they currently seem?
Or is this really the BIG ONE that the electorate really want a say in-one way or the other??
I expect the referendum to have a higher turnout than the general election, it will probably be above 70%, the highest for any UK election since 1997
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
Please. Africa is not poor because of EU tariffs that mostly don't even exist under Cotonou. It is poor because of "glorious" Empire followed by kleptocracy.
Yes, the glorious EU Empire that gives vast trading advantages to its own agribusiness over poor African farmers. And the rampant missing funds in the EU budget is a great example of such kleptocracy. All the whistle blowers like Paul van Buitenen, Marta Andreasen and Dougal Watt get forced out and sacked of course.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
Curious, it is Leavers who are very keen on slashing and burning the aid budget.
I come back to the same point: why shouldn't a clearly defined entity with a distinct culture and a very viable economy be allowed to go its own way?
Exactly. Why shouldn't the a clearly defined entity with a distinct culture and a very viable economy like the UK be allowed to go its own way? Nice to see you coming around to Leave.
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
The problem with links 1 and 3 is that Lomé breached WTO rules, as ACP countries received terms that were not given to most-favoured nations like the USA. Therefore, they are asking for an unlawful status quo to continue instead of Cotonou, jeopardising EU trade with other countries. Link 2 is just nonsense; exporters in most African countries don't incur EU processed coffee tariffs.
I have followed the debate about turnout with considerable interest as i have a tidy sum (for me) placed on TO being 60-65% But I am wondering should i start to rethink this??
On the turn out being higher side we have: Genuine political engagement by the population-anecdotes aside people are clearly starting to engage in a big way It is clearly going to be close so complacency will be reduced Both sides are ramping the noise up to 11
On the turn out lower: The GOTV operation for both sides has real issues to deal with; Neither side seems to have an effective data base as to who their supporters are-past election canvassing returns are almost redundant. Is Scotland referendumed out??
So Is GOTV THAT crucial?? Will both sides be more organised on the day that they currently seem?
Or is this really the BIG ONE that the electorate really want a say in-one way or the other??
Very slick Leave operation in my constituency for GOTV.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
I imagine they'll cut off London's energy, water and food supplies.
Good luck with an equivalent of the Berlin airlift.
Nice. So it seems that bullying is acceptable so long as it is the interests of the little Englanders. Good to remember next time one screams red faced about the behaviour of the Chancellor.
Well you suggested UDI - and as you like to say all too often - there are consequences. All you're doing is accusing a fellow PBer of something theoretical that the EU is threatening to do to the UK in practice. 'Treat like traiters' and all that.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
Curious, it is Leavers who are very keen on slashing and burning the aid budget.
I come back to the same point: why shouldn't a clearly defined entity with a distinct culture and a very viable economy be allowed to go its own way?
The aid budget is poorly spent and stymies development, as Nobel prize winner Angus Deayton has shown. Trade helps development but the Eurocrats and their followers are happy to keep black people in destitution. I refuse to have anything to do with them.
You may mean Angus Deaton. Unless he has had quite a career handbrake turn since hosting HIGNFY.....
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
The problem with links 1 and 3 is that Lomé breached WTO rules, as ACP countries received terms that were not given to most-favoured nations like the USA. Therefore, they are asking for an unlawful status quo to continue instead of Cotonou, jeopardising EU trade with other countries. Link 2 is just nonsense; exporters in most African countries don't incur EU processed coffee tariffs.
Yes, they do. Most of the partnership agreements haven't been ratified. It is mostly talk while the EU continues its anti-development policy. Of course, most supporters of the Mosleyite unity of white European nations find that a feature not a bug.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
I imagine they'll cut off London's energy, water and food supplies.
Good luck with an equivalent of the Berlin airlift.
Nice. So it seems that bullying is acceptable so long as it is the interests of the little Englanders. Good to remember next time one screams red faced about the behaviour of the Chancellor.
Disappointing to see you lose your enthusiasm so quickly for London uber alles. I was hoping you would turn the parks into allotments and the government offices, law courts, museums and art galleries into power stations. Because the government offices, law courts, museums and art galleries would be empty once they had relocated to England.
And its not bullying at all.
London can have the energy, water and food but at the price England charges.
Simple supply and demand - the basic law of free markets. And London is in favour of free markets isn't it ?
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
Curious, it is Leavers who are very keen on slashing and burning the aid budget.
I come back to the same point: why shouldn't a clearly defined entity with a distinct culture and a very viable economy be allowed to go its own way?
The aid budget is poorly spent and stymies development, as Nobel prize winner Angus Deayton has shown. Trade helps development but the Eurocrats and their followers are happy to keep black people in destitution. I refuse to have anything to do with them.
You may mean Angus Deaton. Unless he has had quite a career handbrake turn since hosting HIGNFY.....
I did reluctantly accept that autocorrect! I should have trusted my instincts!
Tysons blase description of the midlands as representing the white British underclass tells you all you need to know about remains prospects. Though perhaps it is just that less wine ended up on that settee than we all feared?
OK- I'm using some humour to get the message across that I think leave's GOTV is built on weak foundations. Those people who are en masse say they are voting out...they do not see the most reliable.
Something, though is influencing the betting markets. That is the only thing I can think of.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
Curious, it is Leavers who are very keen on slashing and burning the aid budget.
I come back to the same point: why shouldn't a clearly defined entity with a distinct culture and a very viable economy be allowed to go its own way?
The aid budget is poorly spent and stymies development, as Nobel prize winner Angus Deayton has shown. Trade helps development but the Eurocrats and their followers are happy to keep black people in destitution. I refuse to have anything to do with them.
Presumably you're a supporter of white farmers having their land confiscated in Zimbabwe.
I do not support any policy that impoverishes black Africans.
Tysons blase description of the midlands as representing the white British underclass tells you all you need to know about remains prospects. Though perhaps it is just that less wine ended up on that settee than we all feared?
OK- I'm using some humour to get the message across that I think leave's GOTV is built on weak foundations. Those people who are en masse say they are voting out...they do not see the most reliable.
Something, though is influencing the betting markets. That is the only thing I can think of.
I have followed the debate about turnout with considerable interest as i have a tidy sum (for me) placed on TO being 60-65% But I am wondering should i start to rethink this??
On the turn out being higher side we have: Genuine political engagement by the population-anecdotes aside people are clearly starting to engage in a big way It is clearly going to be close so complacency will be reduced Both sides are ramping the noise up to 11
On the turn out lower: The GOTV operation for both sides has real issues to deal with; Neither side seems to have an effective data base as to who their supporters are-past election canvassing returns are almost redundant. Is Scotland referendumed out??
So Is GOTV THAT crucial?? Will both sides be more organised on the day that they currently seem?
Or is this really the BIG ONE that the electorate really want a say in-one way or the other??
Very slick Leave operation in my constituency for GOTV.
I have followed the debate about turnout with considerable interest as i have a tidy sum (for me) placed on TO being 60-65% But I am wondering should i start to rethink this??
On the turn out being higher side we have: Genuine political engagement by the population-anecdotes aside people are clearly starting to engage in a big way It is clearly going to be close so complacency will be reduced Both sides are ramping the noise up to 11
On the turn out lower: The GOTV operation for both sides has real issues to deal with; Neither side seems to have an effective data base as to who their supporters are-past election canvassing returns are almost redundant. Is Scotland referendumed out??
So Is GOTV THAT crucial?? Will both sides be more organised on the day that they currently seem?
Or is this really the BIG ONE that the electorate really want a say in-one way or the other??
Very slick Leave operation in my constituency for GOTV.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
I imagine they'll cut off London's energy, water and food supplies.
Good luck with an equivalent of the Berlin airlift.
Nice. So it seems that bullying is acceptable so long as it is the interests of the little Englanders. Good to remember next time one screams red faced about the behaviour of the Chancellor.
Disappointing to see you lose your enthusiasm so quickly for London uber alles. I was hoping you would turn the parks into allotments and the government offices, law courts, museums and art galleries into power stations. Because the government offices, law courts, museums and art galleries would be empty once they had relocated to England.
And its not bullying at all.
London can have the energy, water and food but at the price England charges.
Simple supply and demand - the basic law of free markets. And London is in favour of free markets isn't it ?
Russian tactics don't work too well, as Russia itself has found out. Alternative suppliers could be found soon enough if the carrot crunchers started playing silly buggers.
But don't worry, you can have the pound sterling. It won't be worth anything in your hands anyway.
I think we must now report on the South excluding London. The capital is as seperate from the South politically, demographicaly and economically as it is the midlands. Without London the South looks in line with the rest of England.
The obvious solution is for London to become independent in Europe.
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
That is not going to happen.
Why should London subsidise xenophobia at its own expense?
Why should the rest of the UK have to accept London's callous derision of African livelihoods? After all London would go to hell in a handbasket if it was under perpetual socialist rule it keeps voting for at general elections. London is lucky the rest of the country often puts in right wing national governments for it to thrive.
Curious, it is Leavers who are very keen on slashing and burning the aid budget.
I come back to the same point: why shouldn't a clearly defined entity with a distinct culture and a very viable economy be allowed to go its own way?
The aid budget is poorly spent and stymies development, as Nobel prize winner Angus Deayton has shown. Trade helps development but the Eurocrats and their followers are happy to keep black people in destitution. I refuse to have anything to do with them.
Presumably you're a supporter of white farmers having their land confiscated in Zimbabwe.
I do not support any policy that impoverishes black Africans.
Fair enough. You believe in colonisation and the white man's burden.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
Do people in Coventry associate more with Warwickshire rather than the Birmingham and Black Country ?
By including Coventry within the West Midlands county area it caused the modern county of Warwickshire to be rather under-populated and oddly shaped.
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
The problem with links 1 and 3 is that Lomé breached WTO rules, as ACP countries received terms that were not given to most-favoured nations like the USA. Therefore, they are asking for an unlawful status quo to continue instead of Cotonou, jeopardising EU trade with other countries. Link 2 is just nonsense; exporters in most African countries don't incur EU processed coffee tariffs.
Yes, they do. Most of the partnership agreements haven't been ratified. It is mostly talk while the EU continues its anti-development policy. Of course, most supporters of the Mosleyite unity of white European nations find that a feature not a bug.
The tariff-free conditions are in place or coming online. Assuming bad faith on the part of the EU, while the delays are evidently due to a lack of African leadership, is just tendentious.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
At what level will the results be counted at? It will be interesting to see the regional breakdowns by vote and turnout
Tysons blase description of the midlands as representing the white British underclass tells you all you need to know about remains prospects. Though perhaps it is just that less wine ended up on that settee than we all feared?
OK- I'm using some humour to get the message across that I think leave's GOTV is built on weak foundations. Those people who are en masse say they are voting out...they do not see the most reliable.
Something, though is influencing the betting markets. That is the only thing I can think of.
I doubt it. They're betting blind. And as a herd.
Remainers are still betting Southam. If I didn't see the betting markets I would think leave have already won, all over bar the counting. But, the betting markets tell a different story.
And the betting markets have never....never got it wrong.... OK they might have predicted that last election was hung, they still predicted that the Tories would be the largest party. That is why people like me made money.
Until there is genuine crossover, follow the markets, they know much better than you and I.
Sorry Mr Meeks I didnt think you really meant your point about London declaring indepdendence. I suspect it will be a slow runner because of the bail outs we gave you. Works the other way with England and the EU. Thats why we can and will leave next week.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
Warwick and Leamington is a key marginal seat so that may distort your perception of local activity, being in a non-marginal seat at the last election I would say I have seen more activity at the referendum than I did then.
I would agree Leamington is probably the most likely area for Remain, Coventry I think will lean out
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
Do people in Coventry associate more with Warwickshire rather than the Birmingham and Black Country ?
By including Coventry within the West Midlands county area it caused the modern county of Warwickshire to be rather under-populated and oddly shaped.
More that people in Warwickshire still see Coventry as part of the county. My father-in-law always put Warks in the address when he wrote letters there. I don't think people in Coventry feel much affinity with Birmingham, let alone the Black Country.
Tysons blase description of the midlands as representing the white British underclass tells you all you need to know about remains prospects. Though perhaps it is just that less wine ended up on that settee than we all feared?
OK- I'm using some humour to get the message across that I think leave's GOTV is built on weak foundations. Those people who are en masse say they are voting out...they do not see the most reliable.
Something, though is influencing the betting markets. That is the only thing I can think of.
1) The polls are wrong - in many people's eyes - look how they failed the 2015 election. 2) The polls are currently right but people will switch their vote for the 'Status Quo' - well they're not going to vote for the Boomtown Rats any more. 3) Those who would vote Leave will not turn out as much as those who would vote Remain - despite what the polls say. 4) Something will turn up for Remain that they are holding back on. 5) The EU will step in as a deus ex machina and promise the earth to forestall a Remain loss. 6) Someone is spending a lot of money to persuade people who believe that the bookies know what is going to happen that Leave has no chance and better vote for the winning side. 7) 'The Establishment' will take underhand steps to improve the number of votes they receive.
I have followed the debate about turnout with considerable interest as i have a tidy sum (for me) placed on TO being 60-65% But I am wondering should i start to rethink this??
On the turn out being higher side we have: Genuine political engagement by the population-anecdotes aside people are clearly starting to engage in a big way It is clearly going to be close so complacency will be reduced Both sides are ramping the noise up to 11
On the turn out lower: The GOTV operation for both sides has real issues to deal with; Neither side seems to have an effective data base as to who their supporters are-past election canvassing returns are almost redundant. Is Scotland referendumed out??
So Is GOTV THAT crucial?? Will both sides be more organised on the day that they currently seem?
Or is this really the BIG ONE that the electorate really want a say in-one way or the other??
Very slick Leave operation in my constituency for GOTV.
About as bland a comment as Miliband's million conversations. I think the GOTV operation for Brexit is based pretty much on hoping for the best
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
The problem with links 1 and 3 is that Lomé breached WTO rules, as ACP countries received terms that were not given to most-favoured nations like the USA. Therefore, they are asking for an unlawful status quo to continue instead of Cotonou, jeopardising EU trade with other countries. Link 2 is just nonsense; exporters in most African countries don't incur EU processed coffee tariffs.
There you go with your knowing what you're talking about nonsense again.
Don't you know that Richard spent ages on Google to get those links.
Anecdotes are pointless really aren't they? I think Leave has the edge, because that's what the polls say.
To reassure you, though the betting money is still going on remain- 30 million plus on this market Betfair, and remain at 2-1 on pretty much
Why is the big money, in the many millions, still backing remain?
Either the punters with the cash know something? Or what? I don't know. Clearly, the opinion polls are still being ignored.
London bubble? I wrote earlier how many professionals down here don't seem to think Leave can win. I can only assume that is because they only ever meet other people from professional London circles, which are solidly Remain.
I am not with them, I'm worried. Very worried.
Leave will win next Thursday. There is now no doubt about it. Like you, just about everyone I know is for Remain. I'd say at our place it's around 90% of a workforce of 120. But they're young, London-based and mainly graduates. They're not typical. I left London 13 years ago now to come to the Midlands. It's great up here, but it's another country. Londoners should visit it once in a while, they may learn a few things. People see the world very differently.
I lived in Leamington as a student at Warwick, plenty of students there most of whom go on to work in London
There are. It's a very nice place to live in.
Indeed but it is relatively cosmopolitan for the Midlands, I would not be surprised if Warwick voted Leave and Leamington Remain, elsewhere in Warwickshire Nuneaton and Rugby and probably Kenilworth will back Leave but Stratford on Avon might back Remain
Leamington may well, though the campaign is invisible here. Nuneaton and Rugby definitely out. Kenilworth, Warwick and Stratford toss-ups. Coventry - still Warwickshire really - just Remain, maybe.
Warwick and Leamington is a key marginal seat so that may distort your perception of local activity, being in a non-marginal seat at the last election I would say I have seen more activity at the referendum than I did then.
I would agree Leamington is probably the most likely area for Remain, Coventry I think will lean out
It's not marginal anymore. There's a solid Tory majority.
As your interlocutors have implicitly conceded through changing the spotlight to industry, CAP does nothing to protect EU farmers from Sub-Saharan African farmers, due to the Lomé and Cotonou framework (oops - sounds dangerously like expertise - an unwanted commodity subject to tariffs).
Many, including charities and the EU experts themselves, believe EU policy in Africa is pretty disastrous.
The problem with links 1 and 3 is that Lomé breached WTO rules, as ACP countries received terms that were not given to most-favoured nations like the USA. Therefore, they are asking for an unlawful status quo to continue instead of Cotonou, jeopardising EU trade with other countries. Link 2 is just nonsense; exporters in most African countries don't incur EU processed coffee tariffs.
Under the "Everything but Arms" initiative by the EU all exports (apart from arms) from 55 Least Developed Countries including 36 in Africa are tariff and quota free for export to the EU.
Once countries leave the LDC classification they fall into the larger trade deals. These require bilateral tariff reductions and also linked to development goals concerning corruption and rule of law relating to commercial practice.
Anyone who has had dealings with African Customs people can understand why they are reluctant to lose their sinecures that allow a lifestyle way beyond their official salaries! It is not out of concern for domestic industries that they want to maintain the power of their customs office. Indeed what oftem most irks small business people in Africa is the inability to import essential goods without paying off the customs officials.
Comments
I'm not sure what the rest of the country would do once it had lost the prop of London's earnings, but their desire to be poor but appy would no doubt compensate them fully.
I might believe this, were it not for the fact I seem to attract Remainers wherever I go in the country.
She is pro having her cake and pro eating it.
They saw what happened at Longbridge when Rover collapsed into financial ruin before the 2005 election. Warm promises before the election, concerned pols rushing to the Midlands, 30 k jobs lost after the election.
Kinnock is just toying with them, like a cat playing with its prey.
@nicholaswatt: Grieve: enacting some legislation to downgrade EU undertakings before formal departure could place UK in breach of EU treaty obligations 2/2
So Brussels kick us out early...
2-1 on are very strong odds of what is likely happen, and I think a lot of the sentimental cash is going to leave which makes this figure (2-1 on) even more realistic.
They are starting to talk about how it would be better for Britain to be outside the EU, "it might be better to have a reluctant player outside the tent", "it will make the EU stronger", "EU will find new identity", "deepen in monetary union and defence", "draw new members in", "British membership is 50/50 positive/negative anyway", "life will have to go on afterwards", and Juncker is busy phoning around making contingency plans.
It sounds like the EU is already ready to move on, and cracks are appearing in Project Terror.
- Iraq
- Afghanistan
- Isis at home and abroad
- The indisciminate craziness in the Middle East, including Syria
- Refugee crisis
- Youth unemployment at 50% in Spain and Greece
- Austerity at home and pressure on public services from 350,000 net immigration
- Housing crisis
- Etc etc etc
2. You don't have a choice.
The EU rules don't exactly help Tata mind you. The government's hands are basically tied.
http://www.euractiv.com/section/development-policy/news/eu-africa-free-trade-agreement-destroys-development-policy-says-merkel-advisor/
http://capx.co/how-the-eu-starves-africa-into-submission/
http://www.antillean.org/eu-epa-disadvantages-212/
PS the poster campaign is xenophobic.
You on the other hand are more than welcome to. Go on.
That's provided they're not so pissed up, or got caught up in better things like watching Big Brother, or they've forgotten the day.
I'm relying on the fact that the white British underclass behave true to form and at the end of the day would rather stay at home and get pissed and watch porn eating pot noodles rather than bothering to walk about half a mile to kick out the immigrants.
I come back to the same point: why shouldn't a clearly defined entity with a distinct culture and a very viable economy be allowed to go its own way?
I have followed the debate about turnout with considerable interest as i have a tidy sum (for me) placed on TO being 60-65% But I am wondering should i start to rethink this??
On the turn out being higher side we have:
Genuine political engagement by the population-anecdotes aside people are clearly starting to engage in a big way
It is clearly going to be close so complacency will be reduced
Both sides are ramping the noise up to 11
On the turn out lower:
The GOTV operation for both sides has real issues to deal with;
Neither side seems to have an effective data base as to who their supporters are-past election canvassing returns are almost redundant.
Is Scotland referendumed out??
So
Is GOTV THAT crucial??
Will both sides be more organised on the day that they currently seem?
Or is this really the BIG ONE that the electorate really want a say in-one way or the other??
Good luck with an equivalent of the Berlin airlift.
Other than the fact that you expect Londoners to pay for your hobby horse, a hobby horse they don't support and that is actively damaging to them?
But while some barriers persist, the move over the last decades by the EU has been to lower tariffs with african producers, with many having gone completely. The process is tied to aid and assistance with the explicit aim of developing indiginous african industries. There does need to be more work on non-tariff barriers too, and the amount of time taken is a salutory lesson on how protracted such trade deals can become.
I am glad that UK influence has had such a positive role in this aspect of EU trade policy. Hundreds of millions of Africans and Europeans will benefit.
I suspect this realisation is going to sink in to more Remainers in the coming days....
Nice to see you coming around to Leave.
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/743200948588257280
And its not bullying at all.
London can have the energy, water and food but at the price England charges.
Simple supply and demand - the basic law of free markets. And London is in favour of free markets isn't it ?
Something, though is influencing the betting markets. That is the only thing I can think of.
But don't worry, you can have the pound sterling. It won't be worth anything in your hands anyway.
By including Coventry within the West Midlands county area it caused the modern county of Warwickshire to be rather under-populated and oddly shaped.
https://twitter.com/skymarkwhite/status/743205411805880321
It will be interesting to see the regional breakdowns by vote and turnout
And the betting markets have never....never got it wrong.... OK they might have predicted that last election was hung, they still predicted that the Tories would be the largest party. That is why people like me made money.
Until there is genuine crossover, follow the markets, they know much better than you and I.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/15/nigel-farage-bob-geldof-a-chase-down-the-thames-and-the-most-sur/
"If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say: This was their weirdest hour."
LOL
I would agree Leamington is probably the most likely area for Remain, Coventry I think will lean out
2) The polls are currently right but people will switch their vote for the 'Status Quo' - well they're not going to vote for the Boomtown Rats any more.
3) Those who would vote Leave will not turn out as much as those who would vote Remain - despite what the polls say.
4) Something will turn up for Remain that they are holding back on.
5) The EU will step in as a deus ex machina and promise the earth to forestall a Remain loss.
6) Someone is spending a lot of money to persuade people who believe that the bookies know what is going to happen that Leave has no chance and better vote for the winning side.
7) 'The Establishment' will take underhand steps to improve the number of votes they receive.
Don't you know that Richard spent ages on Google to get those links.
Once countries leave the LDC classification they fall into the larger trade deals. These require bilateral tariff reductions and also linked to development goals concerning corruption and rule of law relating to commercial practice.
Anyone who has had dealings with African Customs people can understand why they are reluctant to lose their sinecures that allow a lifestyle way beyond their official salaries! It is not out of concern for domestic industries that they want to maintain the power of their customs office. Indeed what oftem most irks small business people in Africa is the inability to import essential goods without paying off the customs officials.
I am logged and primed to vote-but I am not the issue-none of my friends who are split on their choice have been contacted by remain or leave.
This could answer the debate once and for all -do local associations and GOTV operations really make that much difference??