The SNP, LibDems and Greens have all come through the campaign unsplit.
Not really. Eck is touring the studios claiming Brexit leads to IndeyRef2 while Nicola is writing editorials urging Indy supporters NOT to vote for Brexit
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
ow.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
The wonderful magic money tree. All that new spending and not a penny of tax increases.
And completely illegal too, of course, given that we will be in the EU until we formally leave it and so will not be able to half the things promised because we will still be bound by EU rules.
Maybe they plan to leave first and negotiate later. Is an Act of Parliament necessary, or can they just abrogate the accession treaty using the Royal Prerogative? Either way we could leave in a couple of months.
No, we can't. It's two years at a minimum after Article 50 is invoked. And if I remember rightly a lot of Leavers do not believe it should be invoked immediately.
For people keen to LEAVE they seem curiously loth to do so.......
Hasn't Cameron said he'd invoke Article 50 the morning of a LEAVE vote?
If the results 51/49 or similar either way I think it'll be imperative to sit back and take stock
If 'taking stock' means doing anything other than follow the result, I disagree.
While I believe LEAVE will be damaging (but we'll get by), not following the result of the consultation will be more damaging. 50% plus one vote. That's how it works.
At the risk of stating the obvious the second most effective ploy of Leave has been to discuss all the nice things we can get with the £350m a week (ahem). It is therefore typically clever tactics by Osborne to make it clear that in his opinion there will be significantly less money to go around after Brexit not more.
Will anyone believe him? I'm really not sure. The previous "forecasts" of the Treasury were so overdone (adding up years of MoE differences from a model based on entirely negative assumptions to get a largish figure) and ridiculed that I think this effort might be less successful than it might have been. But if Osborne can get the debate off immigration and back on to the economic effects he will do the Remain campaign some good. For all the vitriol poured on him on here of late he is a brilliant political operator who should not be underestimated.
On topic the most likely winner in my view is indeed Edinburgh but at those odds this is a mugs bet.
Any Questions from Edinburgh last Saturday was as good as any I've heard. Forsyth Murray and the stupidest SNPer I could ever conceive of (Tasmina). I seriously wondered whether they chose their candidates in a lucky dip.
The slightly scary thing is that Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh practised as a solicitor for several years before being elected and made partner in a respected firm. They go way stupider than her. But I have struggled to find anyone sharing my heretical views in Edinburgh. Even Tories generally prefer to follow the lead of Ruth.
I'm not sure if George is acting like a spoilt child, or is it more akin to the inspector in 'On the buses' - "I'll get you for this Blakey."
No, I think it may be the spoilt, posh boy who reacts with fury when he fails to get his own way.
It can only be an act of desperation, as it's a high-risk strategy. It would have more effect if anyone trusted him to find his own arse with a roadmap and compass. And it will certainly remind Labour voters why they vote the way they do.
Little Lord Fauntleroy is having a hissy fit.
Sorry for all the stereotypes, but it's like a cartoon character come to life.
I was never in the group that disliked George - I was pretty neutral about him. Now, I can see why many felt he was punchable. What a strange beast this campaign has turned out to be. So many reputations made and destroyed. And not the ones I expected.
Is a budget not a confidence vote? If Brexiteers vote it down, surely we get a GE?
Motion of no confidence A government cannot operate effectively unless it can command a majority within the House of Commons. Should it fail to enjoy the confidence of the majority of the House, it has to hold a general election. For example, on 28 March 1979, the Conservative Opposition defeated the Labour Government by 311-310 votes on the motion "That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government". Parliament was dissolved on 7 April, the General Election was won by the Conservatives on 3 May, with the new Parliament summoned to meet on 9 May 1979. Governments can also be forced into resignation or into calling a general election by being defeated in the debate on the Queen's Speech (its legislative programme for the session) as for instance on 21 January 1924, or losing its Finance Bill, or other major items of legislation on which it fought a general election campaign.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
The details don't matter it's the framing. Leave have successfully framed this as a kind of national by election. A one off opportunity to send a message in an election very few people care about the out come of. You can win by elections on single issues and anger. However outraged folk are by that specific lust of policies, however unpopular they are, Osborne wins because he's changed the subject. The broad balance of tax and spend makes it seem like a General Election. Cameron and Osborne can win that. They've done it twice before now.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
The wonderful magic money tree. All that new spending and not a penny of tax increases.
And completely illegal too, of course, given that we will be in the EU until we formally leave it and so will not be able to half the things promised because we will still be bound by EU rules.
Maybe they plan to leave first and negotiate later. Is an Act of Parliament necessary, or can they just abrogate the accession treaty using the Royal Prerogative? Either way we could leave in a couple of months.
No, we can't. It's two years at a minimum after Article 50 is invoked. And if I remember rightly a lot of Leavers do not believe it should be invoked immediately.
For people keen to LEAVE they seem curiously loth to do so.......
Hasn't Cameron said he'd invoke Article 50 the morning of a LEAVE vote?
Before lunchtime on the Friday he needs accept Osborne's resignation, to invoke article 50, then immediately drive to the palace and resign.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
The details don't matter it's the framing. Leave have successfully framed this as a kind of national by election. A one off opportunity to send a message in an election very few people care about the out come of. You can win by elections on single issues and anger. However outraged folk are by that specific lust of policies, however unpopular they are, Osborne wins because he's changed the subject. The broad balance of tax and spend makes it seem like a General Election. Cameron and Osborne can win that. They've done it twice before now.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
any differences with the UKIP 2015 manifesto?
Remember the fury on here when John Major said that the Leave campaign was morphing into UKIP? There really is no discernible difference now, is there? I blame marauding, swarthy, vile Turks.
Quite. And the same can be said of many Tory PBers as well.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
ow.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
The wonderful magic money tree. All that new spending and not a penny of tax increases.
And completely illegal too, of course, given that we will be in the EU until we formally leave it and so will not be able to half the things promised because we will still be bound by EU rules.
Maybe they plan to leave first and negotiate later. Is an Act of Parliament necessary, or can they just abrogate the accession treaty using the Royal Prerogative? Either way we could leave in a couple of months.
No, we can't. It's two years at a minimum after Article 50 is invoked. And if I remember rightly a lot of Leavers do not believe it should be invoked immediately.
For people keen to LEAVE they seem curiously loth to do so.......
Hasn't Cameron said he'd invoke Article 50 the morning of a LEAVE vote?
If the results 51/49 or similar either way I think it'll be imperative to sit back and take stock
If 'taking stock' means doing anything other than follow the result, I disagree.
While I believe LEAVE will be damaging (but we'll get by), not following the result of the consultation will be more damaging. 50% plus one vote. That's how it works.
You may be right, but frankly both campaigns have been disgraceful; shouty, sensationalist and untruthful. I see it as vital that any irreversible decisions are taken after the immediate dust has settled.
At the risk of stating the obvious the second most effective ploy of Leave has been to discuss all the nice things we can get with the £350m a week (ahem). It is therefore typically clever tactics by Osborne to make it clear that in his opinion there will be significantly less money to go around after Brexit not more.
Will anyone believe him? I'm really not sure. The previous "forecasts" of the Treasury were so overdone (adding up years of MoE differences from a model based on entirely negative assumptions to get a largish figure) and ridiculed that I think this effort might be less successful than it might have been. But if Osborne can get the debate off immigration and back on to the economic effects he will do the Remain campaign some good. For all the vitriol poured on him on here of late he is a brilliant political operator who should not be underestimated.
On topic the most likely winner in my view is indeed Edinburgh but at those odds this is a mugs bet.
Any Questions from Edinburgh last Saturday was as good as any I've heard. Forsyth Murray and the stupidest SNPer I could ever conceive of (Tasmina). I seriously wondered whether they chose their candidates in a lucky dip.
The slightly scary thing is that Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh practised as a solicitor for several years before being elected and made partner in a respected firm. They go way stupider than her. But I have struggled to find anyone sharing my heretical views in Edinburgh. Even Tories generally prefer to follow the lead of Ruth.
Please please please please please can Ruth come down here instead of the current jackasses in number 10 and 11. How far ahead would "remain" be if she was running the main show ? 60-40, 65-35 ? It'd be a complete rout ! Osborne must be taking huge chunks off the remain vote.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
ow.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
The wonderful magic money tree. All that new spending and not a penny of tax increases.
And completely illegal too, of course, given that we will be in the EU until we formally leave it and so will not be able to half the things promised because we will still be bound by EU rules.
Maybe f months.
No, we can't. It's two years at a minimum after Article 50 is invoked. And if I remember rightly a lot of Leavers do not believe it should be invoked immediately.
For people keen to LEAVE they seem curiously loth to do so.......
Hasn't Cameron said he'd invoke Article 50 the morning of a LEAVE vote?
If the results 51/49 or similar either way I think it'll be imperative to sit back and take stock
If 'taking stock' means doing anything other than follow the result, I disagree.
While I believe LEAVE will be damaging (but we'll get by), not following the result of the consultation will be more damaging. 50% plus one vote. That's how it works.
You may be right, but frankly both campaigns have been disgraceful; shouty, sensationalist and untruthful. I see it as vital that any irreversible decisions are taken after the immediate dust has settled.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
ow.
No, we can't. It's two years at a minimum after Article 50 is invoked. And if I remember rightly a lot of Leavers do not believe it should be invoked immediately.
For people keen to LEAVE they seem curiously loth to do so.......
Hasn't Cameron said he'd invoke Article 50 the morning of a LEAVE vote?
If the results 51/49 or similar either way I think it'll be imperative to sit back and take stock
If 'taking stock' means doing anything other than follow the result, I disagree.
While I believe LEAVE will be damaging (but we'll get by), not following the result of the consultation will be more damaging. 50% plus one vote. That's how it works.
Will LEAVE accept a narrow victory for REMAIN which they will say - with some justice - is based on Scpottsh, London and non-white votes? Well, anyone who reads the comments of LEAVERS on here knows the answer to that already.
As for "that's how it works" - well, didn't King Charles I say much the same to the House of Commons in 1642? And we know what happened later...
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
The details don't matter it's the framing. Leave have successfully framed this as a kind of national by election. A one off opportunity to send a message in an election very few people care about the out come of. You can win by elections on single issues and anger. However outraged folk are by that specific lust of policies, however unpopular they are, Osborne wins because he's changed the subject. The broad balance of tax and spend makes it seem like a General Election. Cameron and Osborne can win that. They've done it twice before now.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
So - lots of unfunded spending and the subliminal race card - very edifying.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
The details don't matter it's the framing. Leave have successfully framed this as a kind of national by election. A one off opportunity to send a message in an election very few people care about the out come of. You can win by elections on single issues and anger. However outraged folk are by that specific lust of policies, however unpopular they are, Osborne wins because he's changed the subject. The broad balance of tax and spend makes it seem like a General Election. Cameron and Osborne can win that. They've done it twice before now.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
The wonderful magic money tree. All that new spending and not a penny of tax increases.
And completely illegal too, of course, given that we will be in the EU until we formally leave it and so will not be able to half the things promised because we will still be bound by EU rules.
Maybe they plan to leave first and negotiate later. Is an Act of Parliament necessary, or can they just abrogate the accession treaty using the Royal Prerogative? Either way we could leave in a couple of months.
No, we can't. It's two years at a minimum after Article 50 is invoked. And if I remember rightly a lot of Leavers do not believe it should be invoked immediately.
No it isn't. Article 50 gives two years as the maximum unless unanimous agreement extends it. Not a minimum. We leave when an agreement to do so comes into force or two years expires, whichever comes first.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
The wonderful magic money tree. All that new spending and not a penny of tax increases.
And completely illegal too, of course, given that we will be in the EU until we formally leave it and so will not be able to half the things promised because we will still be bound by EU rules.
Maybe they plan to leave first and negotiate later. Is an Act of Parliament necessary, or can they just abrogate the accession treaty using the Royal Prerogative? Either way we could leave in a couple of months.
No, we can't. It's two years at a minimum after Article 50 is invoked. And if I remember rightly a lot of Leavers do not believe it should be invoked immediately.
For people keen to LEAVE they seem curiously loth to do so.......
Hasn't Cameron said he'd invoke Article 50 the morning of a LEAVE vote?
If the results 51/49 or similar either way I think it'll be imperative to sit back and take stock
If 'taking stock' means doing anything other than follow the result, I disagree.
While I believe LEAVE will be damaging (but we'll get by), not following the result of the consultation will be more damaging. 50% plus one vote. That's how it works.
I agree the result is the result and it will be the political classes obligation to implement it. But our political system needs a major overhaul. We have gone from 3 vaguely coherent political parties (4 in Scotland) to none in fairly short order. This is a problem.
Suddenly Labour big wigs want to talk about immigration.
About 15 years too late.
Yvette's article in the Guardian yesterday was full of the usual Labour tripe on the subject.
It remains to be seen how serious Labour are about addressing immigration.
Theyve just spent 2 decades rubbing their core supporters noses in diversity
I am looking forward to Chancellor Gove increasing spending on the NHS by £350 million a week.
In fairness to Chancellor Gove, he's already backed that off to £100 million a week.
Its the back bencher from Uxbridge, who notoriously doesn't do details, who might have a bit of explaining to do.....
Boris Johnson was left red-faced tonight after he was forced to admit he hadn't read a Bank of England report he'd been misquoting through the campaign.
The bottle-blonde Brexit backer blustered as he was skewered by the SNP's Alex Salmond on his claims.
It's so reassuring to know that Boris will be spearheading the Brexit negotiations :-)
You are having fun throwing rocks today aren't you
Boris might be PM, but I wouldn't put that at more than a 30% chance, if he is, he will not be heading the negotiations, as can be seen from his tenure in London City Hall, he does the big picture sunlit uplands moral boosting routine, and then hires a huge load of deputies to do the detailed spade work.
In the event of a Boris PM I can't see he would change that formula much, he would appoint an astute, clubbable, establishment eurosceptic (The Mogg!) to head the negotiations, someone that will not set the eurocrats teeth on edge more than is necessary and leave them to it while he does the hopey changey stuff.
I fear that being the Prime Minster is not like being the mayor of London. You do have to do quite a lot of work. Boris will not be able to leave those all-nighters to others. he'll have to do them himself. And he'll have to read briefing papers and argue cases and do all the other things he really doesn't like doing that involve concentration and diligence.
Is a budget not a confidence vote? If Brexiteers vote it down, surely we get a GE?
Motion of no confidence A government cannot operate effectively unless it can command a majority within the House of Commons. Should it fail to enjoy the confidence of the majority of the House, it has to hold a general election. For example, on 28 March 1979, the Conservative Opposition defeated the Labour Government by 311-310 votes on the motion "That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government". Parliament was dissolved on 7 April, the General Election was won by the Conservatives on 3 May, with the new Parliament summoned to meet on 9 May 1979. Governments can also be forced into resignation or into calling a general election by being defeated in the debate on the Queen's Speech (its legislative programme for the session) as for instance on 21 January 1924, or losing its Finance Bill, or other major items of legislation on which it fought a general election campaign.
Doesn't address the Budget Question - precedence is that it is a 'motion of confidence' - so Parliament would have 14 days to pass a motion of confidence in a new government.
Is a budget not a confidence vote? If Brexiteers vote it down, surely we get a GE?
Motion of no confidence A government cannot operate effectively unless it can command a majority within the House of Commons. Should it fail to enjoy the confidence of the majority of the House, it has to hold a general election. For example, on 28 March 1979, the Conservative Opposition defeated the Labour Government by 311-310 votes on the motion "That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government". Parliament was dissolved on 7 April, the General Election was won by the Conservatives on 3 May, with the new Parliament summoned to meet on 9 May 1979. Governments can also be forced into resignation or into calling a general election by being defeated in the debate on the Queen's Speech (its legislative programme for the session) as for instance on 21 January 1924, or losing its Finance Bill, or other major items of legislation on which it fought a general election campaign.
Likelihood is they wouldn't vote down the finance bill, they'd just amend it. If the government felt that strongly they could make a specific clause a confidence issue
Will LEAVE accept a narrow victory for REMAIN which they will say - with some justice - is based on Scpottsh, London and non-white votes? Well, anyone who reads the comments of LEAVERS on here knows the answer to that already.
As for "that's how it works" - well, didn't King Charles I say much the same to the House of Commons in 1642? And we know what happened later...
They are all British manufacturing operations closing and being moved to Poland, Slovakia, Turkey etc with the help of generous EU grants and/or loans
THE EU, LOOKING AFTER BRITISH JOBS.
It's funny how the kinds of Tory who have frequently posted that the future of the UK economy must be based on added value service industry and hi-tech are now crying crocodile tears over the death of heavy industry - the same sorts of heavy industry that were undermined by poor management, lack of investment and fire sales to the highest bidder, whether they had UK interests at heart or not.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
The details don't matter it's the framing. Leave have successfully framed this as a kind of national by election. A one off opportunity to send a message in an election very few people care about the out come of. You can win by elections on single issues and anger. However outraged folk are by that specific lust of policies, however unpopular they are, Osborne wins because he's changed the subject. The broad balance of tax and spend makes it seem like a General Election. Cameron and Osborne can win that. They've done it twice before now.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
So - lots of unfunded spending and the subliminal race card - very edifying.
End free movement from AND TO the EU.
How can they guarantee the extra NHS funding when they've promised to maintain all the EU spending on existing programmes?
At the risk of stating the obvious the second most effective ploy of Leave has been to discuss all the nice things we can get with the £350m a week (ahem). It is therefore typically clever tactics by Osborne to make it clear that in his opinion there will be significantly less money to go around after Brexit not more.
Will anyone believe him? I'm really not sure. The previous "forecasts" of the Treasury were so overdone (adding up years of MoE differences from a model based on entirely negative assumptions to get a largish figure) and ridiculed that I think this effort might be less successful than it might have been. But if Osborne can get the debate off immigration and back on to the economic effects he will do the Remain campaign some good. For all the vitriol poured on him on here of late he is a brilliant political operator who should not be underestimated.
On topic the most likely winner in my view is indeed Edinburgh but at those odds this is a mugs bet.
Any Questions from Edinburgh last Saturday was as good as any I've heard. Forsyth Murray and the stupidest SNPer I could ever conceive of (Tasmina). I seriously wondered whether they chose their candidates in a lucky dip.
The slightly scary thing is that Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh practised as a solicitor for several years before being elected and made partner in a respected firm. They go way stupider than her. But I have struggled to find anyone sharing my heretical views in Edinburgh. Even Tories generally prefer to follow the lead of Ruth.
Please please please please please can Ruth come down here instead of the current jackasses in number 10 and 11. How far ahead would "remain" be if she was running the main show ? 60-40, 65-35 ? It'd be a complete rout ! Osborne must be taking huge chunks off the remain vote.
If she was in the Commons the betting for next leader would be significantly different.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
The details don't matter it's the framing. Leave have successfully framed this as a kind of national by election. A one off opportunity to send a message in an election very few people care about the out come of. You can win by elections on single issues and anger. However outraged folk are by that specific lust of policies, however unpopular they are, Osborne wins because he's changed the subject. The broad balance of tax and spend makes it seem like a General Election. Cameron and Osborne can win that. They've done it twice before now.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
The wonderful magic money tree. All that new spending and not a penny of tax increases.
And completely illegal too, of course, given that we will be in the EU until we formally leave it and so will not be able to half the things promised because we will still be bound by EU rules.
Maybe they plan to leave first and negotiate later. Is an Act of Parliament necessary, or can they just abrogate the accession treaty using the Royal Prerogative? Either way we could leave in a couple of months.
No, we can't. It's two years at a minimum after Article 50 is invoked. And if I remember rightly a lot of Leavers do not believe it should be invoked immediately.
No it isn't. Article 50 gives two years as the maximum unless unanimous agreement extends it. Not a minimum. We leave when an agreement to do so comes into force or two years expires, whichever comes first.
Yep, fair enough. But the central point remains: we cannot unilaterally withdraw for two years.
At the risk of stating the obvious the second most effective ploy of Leave has been to discuss all the nice things we can get with the £350m a week (ahem). It is therefore typically clever tactics by Osborne to make it clear that in his opinion there will be significantly less money to go around after Brexit not more.
Will anyone believe him? I'm really not sure. The previous "forecasts" of the Treasury were so overdone (adding up years of MoE differences from a model based on entirely negative assumptions to get a largish figure) and ridiculed that I think this effort might be less successful than it might have been. But if Osborne can get the debate off immigration and back on to the economic effects he will do the Remain campaign some good. For all the vitriol poured on him on here of late he is a brilliant political operator who should not be underestimated.
On topic the most likely winner in my view is indeed Edinburgh but at those odds this is a mugs bet.
Any Questions from Edinburgh last Saturday was as good as any I've heard. Forsyth Murray and the stupidest SNPer I could ever conceive of (Tasmina). I seriously wondered whether they chose their candidates in a lucky dip.
The slightly scary thing is that Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh practised as a solicitor for several years before being elected and made partner in a respected firm. They go way stupider than her. But I have struggled to find anyone sharing my heretical views in Edinburgh. Even Tories generally prefer to follow the lead of Ruth.
Please please please please please can Ruth come down here instead of the current jackasses in number 10 and 11. How far ahead would "remain" be if she was running the main show ? 60-40, 65-35 ? It'd be a complete rout ! Osborne must be taking huge chunks off the remain vote.
I think these are the jackasses that you voted for at the last election.
I'm not sure if George is acting like a spoilt child, or is it more akin to the inspector in 'On the buses' - "I'll get you for this Blakey."
No, I think it may be the spoilt, posh boy who reacts with fury when he fails to get his own way.
It can only be an act of desperation, as it's a high-risk strategy. It would have more effect if anyone trusted him to find his own arse with a roadmap and compass. And it will certainly remind Labour voters why they vote the way they do.
Little Lord Fauntleroy is having a hissy fit.
Sorry for all the stereotypes, but it's like a cartoon character come to life.
I was never in the group that disliked George - I was pretty neutral about him. Now, I can see why many felt he was punchable. What a strange beast this campaign has turned out to be. So many reputations made and destroyed. And not the ones I expected.
I think that a lot of Labour and Conservative politicians are discovering that they've little in common with other politicians in their own party, or their own voters.
I think (in general terms) the most enthusiastic Leavers are people who favour tradition, nation states, and sovereignty. The most enthusiastic Remainers are people who favour supranational institutions, and the free movement of people and capital. That division cuts through traditional party lines, so you now have right wing voters splitting about 70/30 for the former, and left wing voters splitting about 2/1 for the latter.
This campaign has helped to clarify where people stand.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
The details don't matter it's the framing. Leave have successfully framed this as a kind of national by election. A one off opportunity to send a message in an election very few people care about the out come of. You can win by elections on single issues and anger. However outraged folk are by that specific lust of policies, however unpopular they are, Osborne wins because he's changed the subject. The broad balance of tax and spend makes it seem like a General Election. Cameron and Osborne can win that. They've done it twice before now.
Maybe they plan to leave first and negotiate later. Is an Act of Parliament necessary, or can they just abrogate the accession treaty using the Royal Prerogative? Either way we could leave in a couple of months.
No, we can't. It's two years at a minimum after Article 50 is invoked. And if I remember rightly a lot of Leavers do not believe it should be invoked immediately.
No it isn't. Article 50 gives two years as the maximum unless unanimous agreement extends it. Not a minimum. We leave when an agreement to do so comes into force or two years expires, whichever comes first.
Yep, fair enough. But the central point remains: we cannot unilaterally withdraw for two years.
I'm not saying its sensible but how would they stop us?
"The rumour from (I believe) Steve Hilton was that the Conservative top echelons became incredibly frustrated in their first term when most of the big reforms they thought were necessary turned out to be impossible because of EU membership. As such, everything was set up for a massive orchestrated row with the EU which would lead to Cameron leading Leave and winning a whopping great victory, with disentanglement from the EU being the crowning achievement of his premiership. Somewhere along the line, apparently, the plan went wrong."
That is precisely so. Not just Gove and Hilton either, but also Letwin and a couple of others.
I'm not surprised that Leavers are sulking about George Osborne's latest move. Unpleasant questions such as how to pay for the implementation of their very expensive hobby horse aren't half as much fun as imagining yourself to be an oppressed people struggling to be free.
Alastair you're starting to come across an embittered old man.
At the risk of stating the obvious the second most effective ploy of Leave has been to discuss all the nice things we can get with the £350m a week (ahem). It is therefore typically clever tactics by Osborne to make it clear that in his opinion there will be significantly less money to go around after Brexit not more.
Will anyone believe him? I'm really not sure. The previous "forecasts" of the Treasury were so overdone (adding up years of MoE differences from a model based on entirely negative assumptions to get a largish figure) and ridiculed that I think this effort might be less successful than it might have been. But if Osborne can get the debate off immigration and back on to the economic effects he will do the Remain campaign some good. For all the vitriol poured on him on here of late he is a brilliant political operator who should not be underestimated.
On topic the most likely winner in my view is indeed Edinburgh but at those odds this is a mugs bet.
Any Questions from Edinburgh last Saturday was as good as any I've heard. Forsyth Murray and the stupidest SNPer I could ever conceive of (Tasmina). I seriously wondered whether they chose their candidates in a lucky dip.
The slightly scary thing is that Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh practised as a solicitor for several years before being elected and made partner in a respected firm. They go way stupider than her. But I have struggled to find anyone sharing my heretical views in Edinburgh. Even Tories generally prefer to follow the lead of Ruth.
Please please please please please can Ruth come down here instead of the current jackasses in number 10 and 11. How far ahead would "remain" be if she was running the main show ? 60-40, 65-35 ? It'd be a complete rout ! Osborne must be taking huge chunks off the remain vote.
I think these are the jackasses that you voted for at the last election.
At the risk of stating the obvious the second most effective ploy of Leave has been to discuss all the nice things we can get with the £350m a week (ahem). It is therefore typically clever tactics by Osborne to make it clear that in his opinion there will be significantly less money to go around after Brexit not more.
Will anyone believe him? I'm really not sure. The previous "forecasts" of the Treasury were so overdone (adding up years of MoE differences from a model based on entirely negative assumptions to get a largish figure) and ridiculed that I think this effort might be less successful than it might have been. But if Osborne can get the debate off immigration and back on to the economic effects he will do the Remain campaign some good. For all the vitriol poured on him on here of late he is a brilliant political operator who should not be underestimated.
On topic the most likely winner in my view is indeed Edinburgh but at those odds this is a mugs bet.
Any Questions from Edinburgh last Saturday was as good as any I've heard. Forsyth Murray and the stupidest SNPer I could ever conceive of (Tasmina). I seriously wondered whether they chose their candidates in a lucky dip.
The slightly scary thing is that Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh practised as a solicitor for several years before being elected and made partner in a respected firm. They go way stupider than her. But I have struggled to find anyone sharing my heretical views in Edinburgh. Even Tories generally prefer to follow the lead of Ruth.
Please please please please please can Ruth come down here instead of the current jackasses in number 10 and 11. How far ahead would "remain" be if she was running the main show ? 60-40, 65-35 ? It'd be a complete rout ! Osborne must be taking huge chunks off the remain vote.
I think these are the jackasses that you voted for at the last election.
They were the least crap of a piss-poor selection. Although to be described as an improvement on marxists and terrorist sympathisers has to be the ultimate in damning with faint praise.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
The details don't matter it's the framing. Leave have successfully framed this as a kind of national by election. A one off opportunity to send a message in an election very few people care about the out come of. You can win by elections on single issues and anger. However outraged folk are by that specific lust of policies, however unpopular they are, Osborne wins because he's changed the subject. The broad balance of tax and spend makes it seem like a General Election. Cameron and Osborne can win that. They've done it twice before now.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
any differences with the UKIP 2015 manifesto?
Remember the fury on here when John Major said that the Leave campaign was morphing into UKIP? There really is no discernible difference now, is there? I blame marauding, swarthy, vile Turks.
Michael Gove and Boris Johnson have turned into Nigel Farage's cat's paws. I wonder whether either realise how strategically outmanoeuvred they have been.
Cameron and Osbournes strategy makes General Melchiots grand plan in Blackadder look like a stroke of genius
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
The details don't matter it's the framing. Leave have successfully framed this as a kind of national by election. A one off opportunity to send a message in an election very few people care about the out come of. You can win by elections on single issues and anger. However outraged folk are by that specific lust of policies, however unpopular they are, Osborne wins because he's changed the subject. The broad balance of tax and spend makes it seem like a General Election. Cameron and Osborne can win that. They've done it twice before now.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
So - lots of unfunded spending and the subliminal race card - very edifying.
End free movement from AND TO the EU.
How can they guarantee the extra NHS funding when they've promised to maintain all the EU spending on existing programmes?
Easy the UK is a net contributor to the EU. It sends more money there than it gets back in spending.
It can fund all EU spending in UK and have spare money left over for other things like NHS
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
The wonderful magic money tree. All that new spending and not a penny of tax increases.
And completely illegal too, of course, given that we will be in the EU until we formally leave it and so will not be able to half the things promised because we will still be bound by EU rules.
Maybe they plan to leave first and negotiate later. Is an Act of Parliament necessary, or can they just abrogate the accession treaty using the Royal Prerogative? Either way we could leave in a couple of months.
No, we can't. It's two years at a minimum after Article 50 is invoked. And if I remember rightly a lot of Leavers do not believe it should be invoked immediately.
No it isn't. Article 50 gives two years as the maximum unless unanimous agreement extends it. Not a minimum. We leave when an agreement to do so comes into force or two years expires, whichever comes first.
Yep, fair enough. But the central point remains: we cannot unilaterally withdraw for two years.
Not via the EU procedures. We can unilaterally withdraw via an Act of Parliament to repeal the relevant parts of eg the European Communities Act 1972. That would seriously peeve off our soon to be ex partners so would be a terrible idea, but we could do it.
Anyway a proposal at an election is normally for things to happen before the next election, not the day after the vote. Everything VoteLeave propose could be in place by 2020 after our two year period.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
The details don't matter it's the framing. Leave have successfully framed this as a kind of national by election. A one off opportunity to send a message in an election very few people care about the out come of. You can win by elections on single issues and anger. However outraged folk are by that specific lust of policies, however unpopular they are, Osborne wins because he's changed the subject. The broad balance of tax and spend makes it seem like a General Election. Cameron and Osborne can win that. They've done it twice before now.
Maybe they plan to leave first and negotiate later. Is an Act of Parliament necessary, or can they just abrogate the accession treaty using the Royal Prerogative? Either way we could leave in a couple of months.
No, we can't. It's two years at a minimum after Article 50 is invoked. And if I remember rightly a lot of Leavers do not believe it should be invoked immediately.
No it isn't. Article 50 gives two years as the maximum unless unanimous agreement extends it. Not a minimum. We leave when an agreement to do so comes into force or two years expires, whichever comes first.
Yep, fair enough. But the central point remains: we cannot unilaterally withdraw for two years.
I'm not saying its sensible but how would they stop us?
I imagine there would be a legal challenge in the UK. That would immediately put the process on hold. In any case, even to begin to do it the government would need a majority in the House of Commons and would then have to get it through the Lords. the whole thing would actually take longer than two years. And we'd then need to negotiate a deal with the EU. Basically, we all know it isn't going to happen.
At the risk of stating the obvious the second most effective ploy of Leave has been to discuss all the nice things we can get with the £350m a week (ahem). It is therefore typically clever tactics by Osborne to make it clear that in his opinion there will be significantly less money to go around after Brexit not more.
Will anyone believe him? I'm really not sure. The previous "forecasts" of the Treasury were so overdone (adding up years of MoE differences from a model based on entirely negative assumptions to get a largish figure) and ridiculed that I think this effort might be less successful than it might have been. But if Osborne can get the debate off immigration and back on to the economic effects he will do the Remain campaign some good. For all the vitriol poured on him on here of late he is a brilliant political operator who should not be underestimated.
On topic the most likely winner in my view is indeed Edinburgh but at those odds this is a mugs bet.
Any Questions from Edinburgh last Saturday was as good as any I've heard. Forsyth Murray and the stupidest SNPer I could ever conceive of (Tasmina). I seriously wondered whether they chose their candidates in a lucky dip.
The slightly scary thing is that Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh practised as a solicitor for several years before being elected and made partner in a respected firm. They go way stupider than her. But I have struggled to find anyone sharing my heretical views in Edinburgh. Even Tories generally prefer to follow the lead of Ruth.
Please please please please please can Ruth come down here instead of the current jackasses in number 10 and 11. How far ahead would "remain" be if she was running the main show ? 60-40, 65-35 ? It'd be a complete rout ! Osborne must be taking huge chunks off the remain vote.
I think these are the jackasses that you voted for at the last election.
I certainly didn't !
Apologies, my bad, I must have misremembered your pre-election contributions.
2p added to the 20p basic rate of income tax 3p added to the 40p higher rate of income tax 5p on the rate of inheritance tax, taking it from 40p to 45p A 5% jump in fuel and alcohol duties £2 billion cut from the pensions bill 2% cuts to the “protected” NHS, schools and defence budgets 5% cuts in budgets like policing, transport and councils
Osborne will be lucky if it is not a two thirds majority for Brexit after threatening us like this.
I notice that the £12 bn international aid budget isnt on that target list. Funny that.
The details don't matter it's the framing. Leave have successfully framed this as a kind of national by election. A one off opportunity to send a message in an election very few people care about the out come of. You can win by elections on single issues and anger. However outraged folk are by that specific lust of policies, however unpopular they are, Osborne wins because he's changed the subject. The broad balance of tax and spend makes it seem like a General Election. Cameron and Osborne can win that. They've done it twice before now.
The VoteLeave proposals today are pretty interesting. Legislative proposals to;
- remove VAT on domestic energy - take back WTO seat - new Bill to deport criminals/terrorists - repeal legislation that gives EU supremacy over our laws - stop EU payments to big businesses - end free movement from the EU - guarantee extra NHS funding
So - lots of unfunded spending and the subliminal race card - very edifying.
End free movement from AND TO the EU.
How can they guarantee the extra NHS funding when they've promised to maintain all the EU spending on existing programmes?
They can't, it's bollocks and they know it. What's funny is to see Tories on here posting such rubbish.
Excuse me - "Parliament is sovereign". It's good to get that acknowledgement from a leaver given that the fact Parliament is not sovereign has been a central Leave argument, but anyway.
I think you would find there would be a great deal of legal argument around Parliament being bound by Treaty obligations its predecessors had solemnly entered into.
In any case, on a practical level, to even get things started Parliament would need to approve it. That would not happen before a general election.
Just heard a Canadian who attended two universities in Europe put a better argument for remaining in the EU than any I've heard from politicians in the last six weeks.
She said she's been to two European Universities and being able to choose where to work in an extraordinary community of twenty eight nations all with their own unique culture and language and all promotiing the values of peace tolerance and togetherness which has made her feel part of a community of outward looking young people which doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.
When you hear someone like that and contrast it with the tacky xenophobia and money grubbing that's surrounding this debate it makes you want to weep. Literally.
Just heard a Canadian who attended two universities in Europe put a better argument for remaining in the EU than any I've heard from politicians in the last six weeks.
She said she's been to two European Universities and being able to choose where to work in an extraordinary community of twenty eight nations all with their own unique culture and language and all promotiing the values of peace tolerance and togetherness which has made her feel part of a community of outward looking young people which doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.
When you hear someone like that this tacky xenophobia and money grubbing that's surrounding this debate makes you want to weep.
Is she proposing that the American President can write Canadian laws? No? Oh so maybe its not that good an idea.
Excuse me - "Parliament is sovereign". It's good to get that acknowledgement from a leaver given that the fact Parliament is not sovereign has been a central Leave argument, but anyway.
I think you would find there would be a great deal of legal argument around Parliament being bound by Treaty obligations its predecessors had solemnly entered into.
In any case, on a practical level, to even get things started Parliament would need to approve it. That would not happen before a general election.
The Lord Denning:
If the time should come when our Parliament deliberately passes an Act with the intention of repudiating the Treaty or any provision in it or intentionally of acting inconsistently with it and says so in express terms then I should have thought that it would be the duty of our courts to follow the statute of our Parliament.
Parliament is sovereign, it can repeal the act, but its an all or nothing affair, while the act stands parliament accepts the supremacy of the ECJ and European Law, and all the limitations that implies. It is true to say it could repeal the act and disapply everything, but there is no middle position unless it is negotiated as a fresh arrangement. If for example parliament decided in it's wisdom that it didn't want freedom of movement anymore, and attempted to pass a law in that regard, the courts would strike it down, because the ECA(1972) instructs them that they should consider the ECJ rulings and EU Law, if the ECA(1972) was repealed, they would no longer take those into consideration. But you know all this, you are just throwing rocks today, rather like ScottPaste does all the time.
Just heard a Canadian who attended two universities in Europe put a better argument for remaining in the EU than any I've heard from politicians in the last six weeks.
She said she's been to two European Universities and being able to choose where to work in an extraordinary community of twenty eight nations all with their own unique culture and language and all promotiing the values of peace tolerance and togetherness which has made her feel part of a community of outward looking young people which doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.
When you hear someone like that this tacky xenophobia and money grubbing that's surrounding this debate makes you want to weep.
Thing is Roge, that might appeal to you and tyson's vibrant Italian bar goers, but it doesn't really appeal to those who perceive negative impact on their lives by the introduction of mass Eastern European immigration.
How many MPs would vote down an Osborne confidence motion, in this parallel universe where he wouldn't already have been sacked...
What is the mechanism the Brexiteers have for sacking Osborne, other than a confidence motion in the Government?
Letters to the 1922 Committee, vote of No Confidence in Cameron (not the government). Iain Duncan Smith was removed as leader via this mechanism, it took one day to do it.
This Cameron campaign has been the most politically inept that I can remember since Jim Callaghan breezed back from the Caribbean in the winter of discontent to declare everything was just fine.
It's really quite staggering what a monumental f cuk up they have made of this.
Had he of started off with a fair and decent playing field and then said, 'ok the EU isn't great but let's debate the pros and cons in a mature manner' I think he'd have won plaudits. The ham-fisted (that's being polite) attempt to coerce the British public makes Robert Mugabe look like a pansy.
But I honestly don't think he would have known any different. I really hope the Conservatives next time elect a state educated leader and chancellor to boot. This Old Etonian noblesse oblige has really come home to roost here.
How many MPs would vote down an Osborne confidence motion, in this parallel universe where he wouldn't already have been sacked...
What is the mechanism the Brexiteers have for sacking Osborne, other than a confidence motion in the Government?
Letters to the 1922 Committee, vote of No Confidence in Cameron (not the government). Iain Duncan Smith was removed as leader via this mechanism, it took one day to do it.
It's one wonderful thing about the tories. They sure know how to knife someone. They could have Cameron out of No.10 in 24 hours and George with him.
My wife (52) and middle son (22) both got targeted leaflets from Remain yesterday. My other son (25) and me (52) got nothing. We were very jealous. They were the first referendum leaflets of any kind to come through the letter box. In the real world, this is not an all-encompassing, all-consuming campaign. I have not seen anything of this £9 million government propaganda publication. Does it really exist?
I think Remain might still scrape home, but only by a small margin. If they do, or if they lose, then rather than blaming nasty Farage, or nasty Gove, or racist voters, or the tabloids, they need to ask themselves where did they go wrong. A year ago, Remain had huge poll leads. What is about their arguments, and/or the EU, that has turned people against them?
Wil it be next Monday or Tuesday that Cameron announces that if we leave he will have to declare a state of emergency invoke martial law and put troops on the streets. You see the EU have told him we cant leave.. Or is it Goldmans or JP Morgan that have told him that.
Just heard a Canadian who attended two universities in Europe put a better argument for remaining in the EU than any I've heard from politicians in the last six weeks.
She said she's been to two European Universities and being able to choose where to work in an extraordinary community of twenty eight nations all with their own unique culture and language and all promotiing the values of peace tolerance and togetherness which has made her feel part of a community of outward looking young people which doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.
When you hear someone like that this tacky xenophobia and money grubbing that's surrounding this debate makes you want to weep.
Is she proposing that the American President can write Canadian laws? No? Oh so maybe its not that good an idea.
"When a wise man points to the moon only a fool looks at his finger"
How many MPs would vote down an Osborne confidence motion, in this parallel universe where he wouldn't already have been sacked...
What is the mechanism the Brexiteers have for sacking Osborne, other than a confidence motion in the Government?
Removal of Cameron as leader followed by sacking of Osborne.
Next....
You need to look up the word mechanism before posting.
That is the mechanism for removing Osborne. If you want to know the mechanism for removing Cameron then that is a different question. If he doesn't resign then the answer is 15% of Tory MPs write a letter to the chairman of the 1922 Committee, followed by a vote of no confidence.
I am going to be an agent at next weeks count and i will be interested in making sure the ballot boxes are empty when they first go to the polling stations.
Comments
I was 9.9 out of 10 to vote leave, I'm now only 10.1
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cadbury-closes-british-factory-to-move-101746
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10026411.Focus_on_Ford__The___80m_EU_loan_for_Ford_s_Turkish_Transit_plant/
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20151210/ANE/151219982/jaguar-land-rover-clinches-deal-with-slovakia-on-new-factory
http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/local-news/how-ryton-jobs-moved-slovakia-3984757
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-armys-new-fighting-vehicles-7928358
http://www.paiz.gov.pl/nowosci/?id_news=1047
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/11217178.display/
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/indesit-bodelwyddan-close-loss-300-2793347
http://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/14233936.BREAKING__Texas_Instruments_factory_in_Greenock_to_close_down/
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/end-era-merthyr-hoover-plant-2117878
They are all British manufacturing operations closing and being moved to Poland, Slovakia, Turkey etc with the help of generous EU grants and/or loans
THE EU, LOOKING AFTER BRITISH JOBS.
While I believe LEAVE will be damaging (but we'll get by), not following the result of the consultation will be more damaging. 50% plus one vote. That's how it works.
EDIT Steve Baker is leading the charge.
No problem, the Brexiteers have a plan... FFS
How far ahead would "remain" be if she was running the main show ? 60-40, 65-35 ? It'd be a complete rout !
Osborne must be taking huge chunks off the remain vote.
"All of which grand theory is undermined wholly by Alistair Darling agreeing with everything he says."
I quite like the Badger. I think he's wrong, but he sometimes has principles. As for George, I'm sure he hangs a nice roll of wallpaper.
They had it coming. Unbelievably shitawful Remain campaign from bean to cup.
Are you feeling lucky?
As for "that's how it works" - well, didn't King Charles I say much the same to the House of Commons in 1642? And we know what happened later...
A stark contrast to Slasher Osborne's crazed threats.
How can they guarantee the extra NHS funding when they've promised to maintain all the EU spending on existing programmes?
So I guess it will fail, the FTPA will trigger 14 days to form a new government, failing that GE in August......
Vote Remain to castrate Dave and George.
I think (in general terms) the most enthusiastic Leavers are people who favour tradition, nation states, and sovereignty. The most enthusiastic Remainers are people who favour supranational institutions, and the free movement of people and capital. That division cuts through traditional party lines, so you now have right wing voters splitting about 70/30 for the former, and left wing voters splitting about 2/1 for the latter.
This campaign has helped to clarify where people stand.
take your time...
I think you're better than this.
It can fund all EU spending in UK and have spare money left over for other things like NHS
Anyway a proposal at an election is normally for things to happen before the next election, not the day after the vote. Everything VoteLeave propose could be in place by 2020 after our two year period.
It was Blakey who was the Inspector on 'On the buses', and it was he who said ... "I'll get you for this, Butler!"
No shit, Sherlock
Even EICIPM did not advocate tax rises.
Mr Carswell even drafted the appropriate legislation.
http://www.talkcarswell.com/downloads/draft-bill-.pdf
Sadly he was also an insufferable asshole at times and didn't know when to let it lie. Denis Healy's quote about David Owen springs to mind.
But, but, but, Brexit is the only way we get our Sovereignty back, or was that always total bullshit?
http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/generation-gap-eu-referendum-debate/
This was a hoax. We have not released our latest polling. https://t.co/YpsBIU4LR2
I think you would find there would be a great deal of legal argument around Parliament being bound by Treaty obligations its predecessors had solemnly entered into.
In any case, on a practical level, to even get things started Parliament would need to approve it. That would not happen before a general election.
Well, duh...
Take your time.
She said she's been to two European Universities and being able to choose where to work in an extraordinary community of twenty eight nations all with their own unique culture and language and all promotiing the values of peace tolerance and togetherness which has made her feel part of a community of outward looking young people which doesn't exist anywhere else in the world.
When you hear someone like that and contrast it with the tacky xenophobia and money grubbing that's surrounding this debate it makes you want to weep. Literally.
Next....
It's really quite staggering what a monumental f cuk up they have made of this.
Had he of started off with a fair and decent playing field and then said, 'ok the EU isn't great but let's debate the pros and cons in a mature manner' I think he'd have won plaudits. The ham-fisted (that's being polite) attempt to coerce the British public makes Robert Mugabe look like a pansy.
But I honestly don't think he would have known any different. I really hope the Conservatives next time elect a state educated leader and chancellor to boot. This Old Etonian noblesse oblige has really come home to roost here.
Omnishambles.
You see the EU have told him we cant leave.. Or is it Goldmans or JP Morgan that have told him that.
It may be called by someone else (the SNP would be favourite) and I am not convinced a Tory majority would vote against it
REMAIN: On that basis, we'll need a new Budget.
LEAVE: Noooooo!
Well, quite...