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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,065
    Mr. Thrak, welcome to pb.com.

    It isn't always quite so busy, but people are getting a shade excited. Just wait until referendum night. Two or three thousand posts wouldn't be a surprise.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580
    edited June 2016

    Jean-Claude Juncker would benefit from low expectations. The volume of remarks on this thread deriding him as a lush testify to that.

    I'm sure he will find a few apposite words. It's unlikely to be a game-changer either way but those who aren't high on the incense of the Church of Brexit will give him a fair hearing.

    I'm sure he is a capable politician in some ways, but can he pitch even to waverers? If he offers something new the question for people uncertain might well be why couldn't it be offered before. If he makes remarks about Britain doing poorly after leaving it's no different than anyone else saying it, if someone is on the fence but leaning Leave why would Juncker saying it make them be swayed by it now. So say he goes positive instead - it would be refreshing, but many of the things Juncker and others like about the EU is things many in the public do not, and many of those leaning Leave do not.

    So it may not do much more harm so long as he doesn't just fling insults, which seems improbable, but Remain may need to change momentum, and this won't achieve that. What will?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,775
    Brexit ultimate bogey man coming to the UK...most people won't know who he is, but it just gives brexit campaign to point and say see that bloke he is in charge of the eu....is he? Did I miss the vote when we got to decide...no you don't get to decide on who it is.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: We have a @ComResPolls EU referendum survey in tmrw's paper. On https://t.co/h3db4EEDTR at 10pm. Some dramatic movement since last month.
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938
    The biggest club you can hit Junker with is the tax system in Luxembourg, which exists only to deprive the other nation states of corporation tax revenue that should rightly be paid in nations where money is made.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    kle4 said:

    Pauly said:

    Any Labour people worried the low-coverage for the Tooting by-election might flip it blue via turnout? I've barely heard anything - even here.

    Labour will walk it.
    Seems like it - Tories get close but never over the line in Tooting looking at past results, and with Khan on to bigger things but presumably backing his successor, and the Tories eating each other alive, it'd be anomalous to say the least for them to win it.
    In Tooting the Khan is dead but Long Live the Khan (Labour's new candidate).
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    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited June 2016

    Jean-Claude Juncker would benefit from low expectations. The volume of remarks on this thread deriding him as a lush testify to that.

    I'm sure he will find a few apposite words. It's unlikely to be a game-changer either way but those who aren't high on the incense of the Church of Brexit will give him a fair hearing.

    I recall Cameron strongly opposing Juncker's appointment on account of him supposedly being anti-British. It's funny how things change .... a friend in need is a friend indeed. I assume a LEAVER will be given equal air time so as to provide balance.
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Scott_P


    'In a survey of 700 businesses by the Bertelsmann Foundation, 29% of British and German companies polled said they would either reduce capacities in the UK or relocate altogether in the event of a Brexit.'


    Should have made it 49% to make it more frightening.


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    LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    GIN1138 said:

    Camnerons gone all McCavity today.

    He'll have to show his face tomorrow at PMQ's. Wonder if that veneer of arrogance that's been bubbling up since May 2015 will finally be wiped off his face?

    He's been out and about in Suffolk.

    Does anyone have any info on how Labour's intervention has played out, as I'm not watching any news channel at the moment?

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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    RodCrosby said:

    breaking: armed shooter takes hostages at a Walmart in Amarillo, Texas...

    Breaking: I'm having an espresso before doing some more work.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,230

    kle4 said:

    Pauly said:

    Any Labour people worried the low-coverage for the Tooting by-election might flip it blue via turnout? I've barely heard anything - even here.

    Labour will walk it.
    Seems like it - Tories get close but never over the line in Tooting looking at past results, and with Khan on to bigger things but presumably backing his successor, and the Tories eating each other alive, it'd be anomalous to say the least for them to win it.
    In Tooting the Khan is dead but Long Live the Khan (Labour's new candidate).
    Nepotism's not quite dead yet!
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,039
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: We have a @ComResPolls EU referendum survey in tmrw's paper. On https://t.co/h3db4EEDTR at 10pm. Some dramatic movement since last month.

    Doooooooooohhhhhh.....
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    DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    A vote of no confidence would trigger a GE, unless there was a second vote reversing it within 14 days.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    Jean-Claude Juncker would benefit from low expectations. The volume of remarks on this thread deriding him as a lush testify to that.

    I'm sure he will find a few apposite words. It's unlikely to be a game-changer either way but those who aren't high on the incense of the Church of Brexit will give him a fair hearing.

    I recall Cameron strongly opposing Juncker's appointment on account of him supposedly being anti-British. It's funny how things change .... a friend in need is a friend indeed. I assume a LEAVER will be given equal air time so as to provide balance.
    Der Kommandant Kommt !
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Camnerons gone all McCavity today.


    The REMAIN campaign have planned for Labour to be in the media for a couple of days to try to get across that Labour supports REMAIN.

    The message Labour seem to be giving is that without a change to Freedom of Movement within the EU, then you should vote LEAVE.
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    marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    DeClare said:

    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    A vote of no confidence would trigger a GE, unless there was a second vote reversing it within 14 days.
    Am sure Cameron would want to stay on especially as we got the Chilcot report two weeks after the referendum
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ooh-err

    @Reuters: In Greenland, some suggest the unthinkable - rejoin the EU https://t.co/i8RuMwQKGB https://t.co/REv16encsO

    Is that an EU with or without the UK?
    How cool would a union of Denmark (incl. Greenland etc), Iceland, Norway (with all their islands) and the UK be? After Brexit I'm sure the Danish will be well up for leaving the EU for our Atlantic Ocean Union. :D
    [Joke]
    If we Remain this is the future:

    What If The EU Had 28 Member States With Equal Populations?

    http://brilliantmaps.com/eu-28-equal/
    [EndJoke]
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,921

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ooh-err

    @Reuters: In Greenland, some suggest the unthinkable - rejoin the EU https://t.co/i8RuMwQKGB https://t.co/REv16encsO

    Is that an EU with or without the UK?
    How cool would a union of Denmark (incl. Greenland etc), Iceland, Norway (with all their islands) and the UK be? After Brexit I'm sure the Danish will be well up for leaving the EU for our Atlantic Ocean Union. :D
    Doubt it. Denmark is proud and independent minded. But it is absolutely plugged into the German sphere. A bit like Scotland and rUK
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458
    edited June 2016

    HYUFD said:

    John_N4 said:

    Average of last five online polls (ignoring DK/WV/WS): Leave 52.1%, Remain 47.9%

    Average of last five phone polls (ditto): Leave 50.4%, Remain 49.6%

    Give them equal weightings and we get Leave 51.2%, Remain 48.8%.

    With over 10% still undecided though much still to play for
    Almost anyone undecided at this stage is surely a non-voter?
    Not necessarily in Quebec in 1995 final polls had Yes just ahead but No won 51% to 49% because Don't Knows swung to the status quo in the polling booth
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited June 2016
    Interesting given all the smears about about the English football fans causing trouble and their political views...

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-nurse-former-green-party-11473156
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    Jean-Claude Juncker would benefit from low expectations. The volume of remarks on this thread deriding him as a lush testify to that.

    I'm sure he will find a few apposite words. It's unlikely to be a game-changer either way but those who aren't high on the incense of the Church of Brexit will give him a fair hearing.

    I recall Cameron strongly opposing Juncker's appointment on account of him supposedly being anti-British. It's funny how things change .... a friend in need is a friend indeed. I assume a LEAVER will be given equal air time so as to provide balance.
    He should be given a fair and respectful hearing, but it's hard to see this as anything other than Remain are really feeling in the deep mire. To many he's the embodiment of so much that's wrong. I feel zero loyalty to his position in the political firmament, and yet he has so much influence over my life. Unless he's here to offer some blockbuster gamechanger his visit is probably more about J C Juncker being able to say to Brussels/ Strasbourg post a Brexit that he "tried".
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580
    edited June 2016
    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    The key is not to read anything, and just guess what people have probably said. I've not read a single other post in years.

    Though I have this strange urge to BeLeave! tm for some reason.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,098
    marke09 said:

    DeClare said:

    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    A vote of no confidence would trigger a GE, unless there was a second vote reversing it within 14 days.
    Am sure Cameron would want to stay on especially as we got the Chilcot report two weeks after the referendum
    Undoubtedly his great strength as Prime minister is in his apologies - particularly after the Bloody Sunday and Hillsborough inquiries. A strong response to Chilcot would allow him to bow out doing what he does best.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,879
    john_zims said:

    @Omnium

    'Currently then the equities are doing badly and the bonds yielding negative amounts (obviously most bonds don't but just playing devils advocate). It's a hard investment climate.

    Moreover if I'd asked you to list the 'decently managed funds' in 2000 I suspect that many of them have proved to be a real disappointment to their investors. If you did the same thing now then many of them would probably disappoint over the next 15 years.

    Money under the bed is not such a bad option these days.'


    Bonds include a large chunk of corporate bonds which are certainly not yielding negative amounts.

    Yes I do know that, and even pointed it out. However notionally the extra interest is to compensate the holders for the risk that the borrower will not be able to pay. Thus (if that mechanism is working perfectly) one would expect to achieve a negative return on a portfolio of Euro denominated bonds.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    John_N4 said:

    Average of last five online polls (ignoring DK/WV/WS): Leave 52.1%, Remain 47.9%

    Average of last five phone polls (ditto): Leave 50.4%, Remain 49.6%

    Give them equal weightings and we get Leave 51.2%, Remain 48.8%.

    With over 10% still undecided though much still to play for
    Almost anyone undecided at this stage is surely a non-voter?
    Not necessarily in Quebec in 1995 final polls had Yes just ahead but No won 51% to 49% because Don't Knows swung to the status quo in the polling booth
    Need more Don't knows than they had to reverse current trends.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    John_N4 said:

    Average of last five online polls (ignoring DK/WV/WS): Leave 52.1%, Remain 47.9%

    Average of last five phone polls (ditto): Leave 50.4%, Remain 49.6%

    Give them equal weightings and we get Leave 51.2%, Remain 48.8%.

    With over 10% still undecided though much still to play for
    Almost anyone undecided at this stage is surely a non-voter?
    Not necessarily in Quebec in 1995 final polls had Yes just ahead but No won 51% to 49% because Don't Knows swung to the status quo in the polling booth
    Also because the native vote went overwhelmingly to No and I believe were missing in the surveys.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    marke09 said:

    DeClare said:

    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    A vote of no confidence would trigger a GE, unless there was a second vote reversing it within 14 days.
    Am sure Cameron would want to stay on especially as we got the Chilcot report two weeks after the referendum
    Undoubtedly his great strength as Prime minister is in his apologies - particularly after the Bloody Sunday and Hillsborough inquiries. A strong response to Chilcot would allow him to bow out doing what he does best.
    Wars are not won by evacuations - WS Churchill post Dunkirk springs to mind.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458

    HYUFD said:

    John_N4 said:

    Average of last five online polls (ignoring DK/WV/WS): Leave 52.1%, Remain 47.9%

    Average of last five phone polls (ditto): Leave 50.4%, Remain 49.6%

    Give them equal weightings and we get Leave 51.2%, Remain 48.8%.

    With over 10% still undecided though much still to play for
    Most of that 10% will decide not to vote.
    Disagree, there is a separate option for won't vote, arguably the Tories won their majority last May because of a late swing to them from Don't Knows
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,230
    DeClare said:

    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    A vote of no confidence would trigger a GE, unless there was a second vote reversing it within 14 days.
    With such a tiny majority, the Labour whips should really try and get a vote of no confidence in between the referendum and the Recess, assuming the PM stays in place. Only needs a dozen or so Tories to abstain to force an election over the summer.

    I wonder if, in the event of a vote of no confidence, it would be possible for the Tories to appoint themselves a new leader in the 14-day window provided by the fixed term parliament act, before Parliament gets dissolved?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,110
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: We have a @ComResPolls EU referendum survey in tmrw's paper. On https://t.co/h3db4EEDTR at 10pm. Some dramatic movement since last month.

    Doooooooooohhhhhh.....
    Beware hyped polls.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,273
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ooh-err

    @Reuters: In Greenland, some suggest the unthinkable - rejoin the EU https://t.co/i8RuMwQKGB https://t.co/REv16encsO

    Is that an EU with or without the UK?
    How cool would a union of Denmark (incl. Greenland etc), Iceland, Norway (with all their islands) and the UK be? After Brexit I'm sure the Danish will be well up for leaving the EU for our Atlantic Ocean Union. :D
    [Joke]
    If we Remain this is the future:

    What If The EU Had 28 Member States With Equal Populations?

    http://brilliantmaps.com/eu-28-equal/
    [EndJoke]
    That is a kool map.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,409

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ooh-err

    @Reuters: In Greenland, some suggest the unthinkable - rejoin the EU https://t.co/i8RuMwQKGB https://t.co/REv16encsO

    Is that an EU with or without the UK?
    How cool would a union of Denmark (incl. Greenland etc), Iceland, Norway (with all their islands) and the UK be? After Brexit I'm sure the Danish will be well up for leaving the EU for our Atlantic Ocean Union. :D
    Here's why that's unlikely. Exports to EU as % of GDP:
    Ireland	39.8
    Germany 22.9
    Denmark 21.5
    Sweden 20.0
    Spain 19.5
    Italy 17.8
    France 17.2
    UK 12.8
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,120

    Jean-Claude Juncker would benefit from low expectations. The volume of remarks on this thread deriding him as a lush testify to that.

    I'm sure he will find a few apposite words. It's unlikely to be a game-changer either way but those who aren't high on the incense of the Church of Brexit will give him a fair hearing.

    The problem Juncker has is not one really of his making nor one he can really do anything about. He has a vision for Europe which is shared by many federalists in the Continent and a few over here. Steven Whaley and John Stevens are two examples. Their vision is reasonable and is not in any way dishonest or evil. But it is not a vision that is shared by the vast majority of British people.

    Because of cultural, legal and historical differences we have a very different vision of the relationship between the state and the individual. Junker, coming here in an honest attempt to persuade people why they should stay in the EU simply doesn't understand this and so doesn't see that he is part of the problem not the solution. I really don't see there is anything he can say which will help Remain and the danger for them is that he can do yet more harm.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,964
    Scott_P said:

    A poll of British and German companies operating in the UK has found that almost a third would consider moving jobs out of the country following a vote to leave the European Union.

    In a survey of 700 businesses by the Bertelsmann Foundation, 29% of British and German companies polled said they would either reduce capacities in the UK or relocate altogether in the event of a Brexit.

    Businesses in the IT and technology sector are particularly open to upping sticks after a referendum: 41% say they would consider decreasing capacity or relocating. But even in the less mobile manufacturing sector, 26% of respondents said they would consider leaving Britain. Only 13% believed a Brexit could increase national employment levels.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/14/eu-referendum-poll-1-in-3-firms-leave-uk-brexit

    LOL you're simply reporting on what they're doing anyway.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/8362542/Bendicks-chocolate-factory-in-Winchester-to-move-to-Germany.html

    I mean mints ! Bloody mints !

    Europe - protecting German Manufacturers for decades.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,120
    TonyE said:

    The biggest club you can hit Junker with is the tax system in Luxembourg, which exists only to deprive the other nation states of corporation tax revenue that should rightly be paid in nations where money is made.

    The tax loopholes are something Leave really hasn't made much of in this campaign. Many of the companies that have been attacked over the last few years about tax avoidance have only been able to do this because the UK is in the EU which allows them to claim they should be paying tax in Ireland or Luxembourg. I would assume if we leave and do not stay in the EEA this would no longer be possible.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,775
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: We have a @ComResPolls EU referendum survey in tmrw's paper. On https://t.co/h3db4EEDTR at 10pm. Some dramatic movement since last month.

    I semed to remember there was a rule of thumb during GE regarding loud Howard & poll announcements....good for Tories he was announcing stuff on twitter, not a peep bad for Tories.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @kle4 I'm very sceptical about Carpathia on that map. It has no big cities and I can't see how it has the claimed population.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,230

    marke09 said:

    DeClare said:

    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    Thrak said:

    This place moves so quickly, I posted something yesterday and there are over a thousand posts since, it's impossible to keep up!

    Anyway, I just replied to something that may well have been hours ago on the likelihood of a coming GE. Having done it it's a shame to waste it.

    "This is why I asked about GE odds yesterday, the conservative majority is slim, and then you have to realise how large a majority remain have in the commons. I think it's quite likely that there are enough conservatives who would put principle over party and allow a vote of no confidence to pass based on the profound change created through brexit and a new GE mandate being required to take that through parliament. I fully expect Cameron to resign in the evnt of brexit too, no matter what he says."

    Probably makes no sense now the debate moved on but there you go. What happens if the government lose a no confidence vote? With a fixed parliament do labour automatically try to form a government, I presume the government can't call one in that situation.

    A vote of no confidence would trigger a GE, unless there was a second vote reversing it within 14 days.
    Am sure Cameron would want to stay on especially as we got the Chilcot report two weeks after the referendum
    Undoubtedly his great strength as Prime minister is in his apologies - particularly after the Bloody Sunday and Hillsborough inquiries. A strong response to Chilcot would allow him to bow out doing what he does best.
    The PMs response to the Bloody Sunday inquiry was exceptional statesmanship, had most people who watched it in tears, including in the Commons that day.

    I wonder if the response to Chilcot will be a little more partisan, given the memories are so recent and a lot of the actors still alive and well?
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,120
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ooh-err

    @Reuters: In Greenland, some suggest the unthinkable - rejoin the EU https://t.co/i8RuMwQKGB https://t.co/REv16encsO

    Is that an EU with or without the UK?
    How cool would a union of Denmark (incl. Greenland etc), Iceland, Norway (with all their islands) and the UK be? After Brexit I'm sure the Danish will be well up for leaving the EU for our Atlantic Ocean Union. :D
    Here's why that's unlikely. Exports to EU as % of GDP:
    Ireland	39.8
    Germany 22.9
    Denmark 21.5
    Sweden 20.0
    Spain 19.5
    Italy 17.8
    France 17.2
    UK 12.8
    Does that Ireland figure include exports to the UK?
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    Official. Plague of locusts heading this way from Europe and they are insecticide rezistance and set to devastate our crops (well moths actually but just as greedy)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36516619
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,775
    edited June 2016

    TonyE said:

    The biggest club you can hit Junker with is the tax system in Luxembourg, which exists only to deprive the other nation states of corporation tax revenue that should rightly be paid in nations where money is made.

    The tax loopholes are something Leave really hasn't made much of in this campaign. Many of the companies that have been attacked over the last few years about tax avoidance have only been able to do this because the UK is in the EU which allows them to claim they should be paying tax in Ireland or Luxembourg. I would assume if we leave and do not stay in the EEA this would no longer be possible.
    Odd how guardian / bbc / labour party have gone very quiet on that stuff over the past month...
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    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ooh-err

    @Reuters: In Greenland, some suggest the unthinkable - rejoin the EU https://t.co/i8RuMwQKGB https://t.co/REv16encsO

    Is that an EU with or without the UK?
    How cool would a union of Denmark (incl. Greenland etc), Iceland, Norway (with all their islands) and the UK be? After Brexit I'm sure the Danish will be well up for leaving the EU for our Atlantic Ocean Union. :D
    Here's why that's unlikely. Exports to EU as % of GDP:
    Ireland	39.8
    Germany 22.9
    Denmark 21.5
    Sweden 20.0
    Spain 19.5
    Italy 17.8
    France 17.2
    UK 12.8
    Does that Ireland figure include exports to the UK?
    And UK Exports to Ireland?

    And UK exports to RoW via Rotterdam?
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    This was a different time, a different continent, and a different election, but maybe it's still worth remembering.

    http://www.presidenstory.com/usimag/phot/33.jpg
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    'Hackers connected to the Russian government broke into the servers of the Democratic National Committee and stole opposition research on Donald Trump, the cybersecurity experts who responded to the intrusion said Tuesday...'

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/14/politics/democratic-national-committee-breach-russians-donald-trump/index.html
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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: We have a @ComResPolls EU referendum survey in tmrw's paper. On https://t.co/h3db4EEDTR at 10pm. Some dramatic movement since last month.

    Last ComRes was Remain 52-41, obvious the movement is towards Leave. Question is, how much?
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited June 2016
    Jean-Claude Juncker:

    "If it's a Yes we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue'"

    "When it becomes serious you have to lie"

    "I believe neither the French nor the Dutch rejected the constitutional treaties"
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    RodCrosby said:

    'Hackers connected to the Russian government broke into the servers of the Democratic National Committee and stole opposition research on Donald Trump, the cybersecurity experts who responded to the intrusion said Tuesday...'

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/14/politics/democratic-national-committee-breach-russians-donald-trump/index.html

    Wonder if any cheques have gone to Russian banks from a certain branding empire ...
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    John_N4 said:

    Average of last five online polls (ignoring DK/WV/WS): Leave 52.1%, Remain 47.9%

    Average of last five phone polls (ditto): Leave 50.4%, Remain 49.6%

    Give them equal weightings and we get Leave 51.2%, Remain 48.8%.

    With over 10% still undecided though much still to play for
    Almost anyone undecided at this stage is surely a non-voter?
    Not necessarily in Quebec in 1995 final polls had Yes just ahead but No won 51% to 49% because Don't Knows swung to the status quo in the polling booth
    I think that is not quite true (& I was living in Quebec in 1995).

    The final Quebec polls had the Leavers well ahead (4%, 6 %, 6%) respectively. I went to bed thinking Leave would definitely win. But nonetheless Remain did just scrape it.

    There were about 12 % undecideds in the last polls, and they broke 10 % for Remain, 2 % Leave.

    That is what Fear Porn can do.

    It is Remain's Last Chance, and it could still work.
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    DanSmith said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: We have a @ComResPolls EU referendum survey in tmrw's paper. On https://t.co/h3db4EEDTR at 10pm. Some dramatic movement since last month.

    Last ComRes was Remain 52-41, obvious the movement is towards Leave. Question is, how much?
    DanSmith said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: We have a @ComResPolls EU referendum survey in tmrw's paper. On https://t.co/h3db4EEDTR at 10pm. Some dramatic movement since last month.

    Last ComRes was Remain 52-41, obvious the movement is towards Leave. Question is, how much?
    I reckon 48-45 to leave
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,230

    TonyE said:

    The biggest club you can hit Junker with is the tax system in Luxembourg, which exists only to deprive the other nation states of corporation tax revenue that should rightly be paid in nations where money is made.

    The tax loopholes are something Leave really hasn't made much of in this campaign. Many of the companies that have been attacked over the last few years about tax avoidance have only been able to do this because the UK is in the EU which allows them to claim they should be paying tax in Ireland or Luxembourg. I would assume if we leave and do not stay in the EEA this would no longer be possible.
    I was thinking the same. Outside the EU it would be possible to pass a law requiring the likes of Google to have UK sales run through a UK subsidiary, with appropriate taxes paid on sales and profits. It would eliminate a lot of the loopholes used by multinationals and increase tax revenues.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,089
    DanSmith said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: We have a @ComResPolls EU referendum survey in tmrw's paper. On https://t.co/h3db4EEDTR at 10pm. Some dramatic movement since last month.

    Last ComRes was Remain 52-41, obvious the movement is towards Leave. Question is, how much?
    My guess would be that Com Res will put Leave ahead.

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,242

    Official. Plague of locusts heading this way from Europe and they are insecticide rezistance and set to devastate our crops (well moths actually but just as greedy)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36516619

    There really have been extraordinarily large numbers. I had 120 of these Diamond-back moths one night, and watering the gardening raised clouds of them. The are tiny things but able to surf high altitude winds to move, in this case most likely from Scandinavia/the Baltic.

    Sadly, it will most likely release a vast use of pesticides which will have damn all effect on them (they are significantly resistant) but will hammer many other species of butterfly and moth whose numbers are already struggling. (My current avatar is an Emperor moth on Dartmoor).
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    RogerRoger Posts: 19,042
    I've just had a conversation with a retired politics lecturer (actually a professor) and he was very pessimistic about Brexit. He thinks it's ultimately going to lead to a situation like the old Yugoslavia and he thinks the first signs are going to be seen in Italy.

    I'd only gone in for a cocktail....
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580

    @kle4 I'm very sceptical about Carpathia on that map. It has no big cities and I can't see how it has the claimed population.

    Shame. Well, if it's the only one well out still pretty decent effort.

    OT, I really need to stay off YouTube - I've seen that VoteLeave ad about 350million a week so many times it's beginning to drive me in same.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    John_N4 said:

    Average of last five online polls (ignoring DK/WV/WS): Leave 52.1%, Remain 47.9%

    Average of last five phone polls (ditto): Leave 50.4%, Remain 49.6%

    Give them equal weightings and we get Leave 51.2%, Remain 48.8%.

    With over 10% still undecided though much still to play for
    Almost anyone undecided at this stage is surely a non-voter?
    Not necessarily in Quebec in 1995 final polls had Yes just ahead but No won 51% to 49% because Don't Knows swung to the status quo in the polling booth
    I think that is not quite true (& I was living in Quebec in 1995).

    The final Quebec polls had the Leavers well ahead (4%, 6 %, 6%) respectively. I went to bed thinking Leave would definitely win. But nonetheless Remain did just scrape it.

    There were about 12 % undecideds in the last polls, and they broke 10 % for Remain, 2 % Leave.

    That is what Fear Porn can do.

    It is Remain's Last Chance, and it could still work.
    Yes the point is in referendums if don't knows exceed the margin by which the change option leads then it is likely those don't knows will in the end break for the status quo thus potentially just overturning the change option's lead
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,273
    Roger said:

    I've just had a conversation with a retired politics lecturer (actually a professor) and he was very pessimistic about Brexit. He thinks it's ultimately going to lead to a situation like the old Yugoslavia and he thinks the first signs are going to be seen in Italy.

    I'd only gone in for a cocktail....

    He's right - Yugoslavia is great example of what happens when nations are forced together. The former Yugoslav republics only put up with the EU (or want to join) because they're some money available.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    John_N4 said:

    Average of last five online polls (ignoring DK/WV/WS): Leave 52.1%, Remain 47.9%

    Average of last five phone polls (ditto): Leave 50.4%, Remain 49.6%

    Give them equal weightings and we get Leave 51.2%, Remain 48.8%.

    With over 10% still undecided though much still to play for
    Almost anyone undecided at this stage is surely a non-voter?
    Not necessarily in Quebec in 1995 final polls had Yes just ahead but No won 51% to 49% because Don't Knows swung to the status quo in the polling booth
    I think that is not quite true (& I was living in Quebec in 1995).

    The final Quebec polls had the Leavers well ahead (4%, 6 %, 6%) respectively. I went to bed thinking Leave would definitely win. But nonetheless Remain did just scrape it.

    There were about 12 % undecideds in the last polls, and they broke 10 % for Remain, 2 % Leave.

    That is what Fear Porn can do.

    It is Remain's Last Chance, and it could still work.
    Perhaps. Although on current polling that would mean chances of anything more than a Quebec2 style result for Remain is a distant dream.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    John_N4 said:

    Average of last five online polls (ignoring DK/WV/WS): Leave 52.1%, Remain 47.9%

    Average of last five phone polls (ditto): Leave 50.4%, Remain 49.6%

    Give them equal weightings and we get Leave 51.2%, Remain 48.8%.

    With over 10% still undecided though much still to play for
    Almost anyone undecided at this stage is surely a non-voter?
    Not necessarily in Quebec in 1995 final polls had Yes just ahead but No won 51% to 49% because Don't Knows swung to the status quo in the polling booth
    Also because the native vote went overwhelmingly to No and I believe were missing in the surveys.
    There were not enough natives to make the difference it was undecideds which did
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    What if Cameron going quiet for the past few days does nothing to win over C2 voters (who according to icm are hugely for leave) and ED social group voters because they don't all vote labour anyways and Labour are getting drowned out by bigger news stories. But The tory don't knows start switching to Leave simply because Cameron is not in the news but tory leavers are?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458
    RodCrosby said:

    'Hackers connected to the Russian government broke into the servers of the Democratic National Committee and stole opposition research on Donald Trump, the cybersecurity experts who responded to the intrusion said Tuesday...'

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/14/politics/democratic-national-committee-breach-russians-donald-trump/index.html

    Trump and Putin are bosom buddies anyway!!
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,065
    Mr. kle4, you should be grateful it wasn't chirpy twonk Joe Wicks explaining the wonders of how to cook rice.
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    Referendum betting odds are closest they've ever been:

    SkyBet goes REMAIN 1.67, LEAVE 2.2 ..... crossover in the next 48hrs at this rate.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,964
    Roger said:

    I've just had a conversation with a retired politics lecturer (actually a professor) and he was very pessimistic about Brexit. He thinks it's ultimately going to lead to a situation like the old Yugoslavia and he thinks the first signs are going to be seen in Italy.

    I'd only gone in for a cocktail....

    cheer up Roger, he's an expert.

    He's bound to be wrong :-)
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,458
    nunu said:

    What if Cameron going quiet for the past few days does nothing to win over C2 voters (who according to icm are hugely for leave) and ED social group voters because they don't all vote labour anyways and Labour are getting drowned out by bigger news stories. But The tory don't knows start switching to Leave simply because Cameron is not in the news but tory leavers are?

    Cameron being off the news cycle for 2 days will not switch anyone especially as he will be all over it next week
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,027

    NEW THREAD NEW THREAD

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    George Osborne
    If we remain in EU avg wage in South West will rise by £4,500 - from £26,000 to £30,500. If we leave wages will be 2.8% lower in real terms
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,879

    TonyE said:

    The biggest club you can hit Junker with is the tax system in Luxembourg, which exists only to deprive the other nation states of corporation tax revenue that should rightly be paid in nations where money is made.

    The tax loopholes are something Leave really hasn't made much of in this campaign. Many of the companies that have been attacked over the last few years about tax avoidance have only been able to do this because the UK is in the EU which allows them to claim they should be paying tax in Ireland or Luxembourg. I would assume if we leave and do not stay in the EEA this would no longer be possible.
    Good for Leave that they haven't. It is a side issue, although an important one.

    Less government is generally a good thing in my view (although not taken to the extreme). Mr Junker is simply unnecessary. Sadly we'll be paying part of his costs to come and tell us how to vote. A wise Home Secretary would simply lock him up and deport him to Cuba and see if anyone cared. (Immigration mistakes happen all the time after all)
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,760
    edited June 2016

    Jean-Claude Juncker would benefit from low expectations. The volume of remarks on this thread deriding him as a lush testify to that.

    I'm sure he will find a few apposite words. It's unlikely to be a game-changer either way but those who aren't high on the incense of the Church of Brexit will give him a fair hearing.

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/741743746123960320
    The headline is too ambiguous. Sorry.
    OK, how about this one?

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/735834856752599040
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,098
    Sean_F said:

    DanSmith said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: We have a @ComResPolls EU referendum survey in tmrw's paper. On https://t.co/h3db4EEDTR at 10pm. Some dramatic movement since last month.

    Last ComRes was Remain 52-41, obvious the movement is towards Leave. Question is, how much?
    My guess would be that Com Res will put Leave ahead.

    With all this going on we shouldn't forget the potential for the herding effect.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    DanSmith said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: We have a @ComResPolls EU referendum survey in tmrw's paper. On https://t.co/h3db4EEDTR at 10pm. Some dramatic movement since last month.

    Last ComRes was Remain 52-41, obvious the movement is towards Leave. Question is, how much?
    The other polls have swung 5-7 points since the last Comres fieldwork.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ooh-err

    @Reuters: In Greenland, some suggest the unthinkable - rejoin the EU https://t.co/i8RuMwQKGB https://t.co/REv16encsO

    Is that an EU with or without the UK?
    How cool would a union of Denmark (incl. Greenland etc), Iceland, Norway (with all their islands) and the UK be? After Brexit I'm sure the Danish will be well up for leaving the EU for our Atlantic Ocean Union. :D
    Here's why that's unlikely. Exports to EU as % of GDP:
    Ireland	39.8
    Germany 22.9
    Denmark 21.5
    Sweden 20.0
    Spain 19.5
    Italy 17.8
    France 17.2
    UK 12.8
    Vote LEAVE should be texting these figures to all AB social group voters.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,409

    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Ooh-err

    @Reuters: In Greenland, some suggest the unthinkable - rejoin the EU https://t.co/i8RuMwQKGB https://t.co/REv16encsO

    Is that an EU with or without the UK?
    How cool would a union of Denmark (incl. Greenland etc), Iceland, Norway (with all their islands) and the UK be? After Brexit I'm sure the Danish will be well up for leaving the EU for our Atlantic Ocean Union. :D
    Here's why that's unlikely. Exports to EU as % of GDP:
    Ireland	39.8
    Germany 22.9
    Denmark 21.5
    Sweden 20.0
    Spain 19.5
    Italy 17.8
    France 17.2
    UK 12.8
    Does that Ireland figure include exports to the UK?
    Yes, they're raw numbers. Ireland is the one country that - because it is so keyed into the UK market - might leave. On the other hand it's tax evasion optimisation industry is so important (importing and re-exporting iPads to shift the tax burden, for example) that it might need to stay in the EU to keep that position.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: £30bn wiped off FTSE today, Remain camp point out. Purely on back of Brexit fears.
    And other European stock markets falling too

    Let them eat sovereignty

    Sigh - you do know stock markets go up and down all the time for various reasons.

    They even went down when "stay" was ahead I believe... .which you might struggle to get your head around.

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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    On Guido this afternoon.

    After yesterday’s gold standard ICM online and phone polls showing a robust Leave lead, TNS have released new figures showing 47% for Out and 40% for In. This means Leave are now ahead seven points – higher than any poll since YouGov’s nine point lead for Out in February. Remain have won just one poll in the last seven days…

    This poll was embargoed til 6pm but the embargo was busted by the Times and Britain Elects.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Pauly said:

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: £30bn wiped off FTSE today, Remain camp point out. Purely on back of Brexit fears.
    And other European stock markets falling too

    Let them eat sovereignty

    Surely this is just a continuation of the stock markets being heavily correlated with oil price - both declines continued again on the 8th of June. Since the oil rebalancing is still a supply issue rather than demand - I can't see how Brexit is a factor, which will affect global supply negligibly.

    Unless you can present a convincing case for causation over correlation then the case is weak.
    Like remain in general, truth and accuracy not really important to our Scott right now.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: £30 billion wiped off shares? So what...

    Lucky nobody has a pension investments reliant on the stock market

    Lucky that daily shifts in stock prices have SFA impact on pensions.
    Sshhhh - it's kind of fun watching Scott flailing around in desperation.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    John_M said:

    Floater said:

    John_M said:

    John_N4 said:

    John_N4 said:


    !!! The phony war? What do you want in payment of this "debt"? Archangel?

    :) The period after the fall of France was hardly phony...
    True the Battle of Britain wasn't phony, but I can't see why Russia owes Britain a debt for that.
    Without us there would have been no two-front war in Europe and the USSR would have fallen to the Nazis.
    The USSR would have kicked Germany's arse with or without us. It's one of my specialist subjects :). The only scenario in which I imagine Germany winning would be if it had launched Barbarossa in early May '41. It was Yugoslavia and the Balkans that screwed Hitler. Had he taken Moscow and Leningrad in '41, he might have forced a capitulation.
    I too have a big interest in that particular conflict.

    If you like strategy games check out War in the East - a monster and not cheap - but what a game.

    Anyway, turning to your point.

    There are a number of ways Germany could have won, they could have treated the freed people of Ukraine etc as humans for a start.......

    We should also never underestimate the effect of deliveries from us and USA, although I freely admit most of that came from the Americans. (ps I am not really talking about tanks and planes but more the food, transport and raw materials).
    I'm a long time Gary Grigsby fan, though I think WITE was a rare misfire. It's _almost_ great. I prefer War in the Pacific : Admiral's Edition. I keep eyeing up War in the West, but Grigsby's never done airpower well imo, and there's so much of it to deal with!
    I have most of the Eastern front strategy games.

    It can take me 4 hours a turn on War in the East, but I can't think of another war game that I prefer even though I am a great fan of Operational Art of War 3 too.
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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649

    Mortimer said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Out if interest has there been any "market mayhem" from yesterdays polls?

    Didn't you see? The pound TANKED yesterday afternoon to....errr....as Robert kindly told us, exactly where it was on opening yesterday.
    FTSE 100 down .9% today to below 6,000. A few days ago it was around 6,300.
    That's probably because the excitible schoolgirls on the trading desks are hedging their Betfair positions.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Daniel Hannan
    23m
    Daniel Hannan‏ @DanHannanMEP
    What was it @JunckerEU said in his last intervention. Something along the lines of "deserters will be shot", wasn't it?

    Fantastic news! Can't wait to see the drunken idiot tell us to all vote Remain or suffer the consequences.

    Are Remain so completely out of touch, that they don't see there's nothing positive that Junker could add to the campaign?
    Which national tv channels are going to run the drunk Junck video?
    Sky will probably run it, they don't care about upsetting him.

    I don't understand what Junker will actually do though. He's not going to debate anyone, though I'm sure Hannan will invite him to one.

    He's going to turn up on the Eurostar, make a speech telling us to Remain or else, then f*** off back to his Brussles ivory towers feeling pleased with himself. The optics of that are absolutely terrible, don't the campaign see it?
    How can they stop him - I thought the report was he needs to do it so he can argue he made an effort to stop it happening, but would only do so if it looked probable regardless. It's about him not us.
    And in the process almost guarantees a few waverers move to the Leave side. If it really is too close to call, that could be the intervention that decides the result.
    It's conceivable that Mr Juncker may urge the UK to vote leave, because it really isn't suited to the EU way.
This discussion has been closed.