Not watching proceedings as high up in the Aragonese Pyrenees. But ...
This thread clearly demonstrates why most TV political debates don't change many minds. It's like reading comments on a Spurs message board during a game.
I bet she even really believes most of the nonsense herself. But it's one of those good lies. It's probably not a good thing to pump into the atmosphere so much carbon, it is probably mildly aggravating existing trends. Because of this all kind of nuance and subtleties are lost. We are all doomed etc if we dont do XYZ.
Looking at the comments on Sarah Wollaston's blog, I would guess that South Hams Conservatives are not a happy ship at the moment.
Picking up on some real local anger....
Mutiny in Dartmouth and the South Hams on the cards!
I read the comments. They're pretty evenly split between angry and supportive. She's going to be fine. I don't understand why she did what she did, but it's hardly the end of the world.
Nobody can understand what she did. Or what her attitude is to the EU now.
Not watching proceedings as high up in the Aragonese Pyrenees. But ...
This thread clearly demonstrates why most TV political debates don't change many minds. It's like reading comments on a Spurs message board during a game.
And that just like the Spurs message board, most normal people don't view it ;-)
Nicola knows her true enemies are to the left of her on that stage.
I'm not watching, who would that be? The conventional wisdom is that the SNP want a leave vote so there is an excuse for another referendum. But does Nicola really want to hold another referendum in the current circumstances? With North Sea Oil revenues shattered? I'd be amazed.
I bet she even really believes most of the nonsense herself. But it's one of those good lies. It's probably not a good thing to pump into the atmosphere so much carbon, it is probably mildly aggravating existing trends. Because of this all kind of nuance and subtleties are lost. We are all doomed etc if we dont do XYZ.
All plant life is carbon based - we need more of it if anything. Look at CO2 throughout history, for much of the time in earth's history over the past 4,600 million years its been way above 400ppm. If you take the climate change CO2 argument to extremis, if CO2 levels fell below 120ppm then life would begin to die off as being carbon starved (there are stabilisers in the system which mean that the 120ppm level is in effect a CO2 floor).
Had a very interesting conversation with a voter tonight.
He said he wanted to Vote Leave, but he thought it might be risky, what might persuade him in the future was if another country left and see how they did.
If we don't leave in a fortnight, which will be the first country to leave?
They prepared to be a lab rat for leaving the EU for our benefit?
Had a very interesting conversation with a voter tonight.
He said he wanted to Vote Leave, but he thought it might be risky, what might persuade him in the future was if another country left and see how they did.
If we don't leave in a fortnight, which will be the first country to leave?
They prepared to be a lab rat for leaving the EU for our benefit?
There's a fighting chance it might be France. In which case, I shall become an ardent Remainer and look forward to the London-Berlin axis crushing all beneath it's booted heel. Hey, a girl can dream.
Montie is turning in to Eoin for level of insight value.
Tim Montgomerie ن @montie 20m20 minutes ago Inners are Britisceptics. They think economy will fail. There'll be WW3. We'll treat workers badly. They may love UK but don't believe in it
Ruth DavidsonVerified account @RuthDavidsonMSP @montie@alexmassie you called inners Britsceptics. I've spent years of my life fighting to keep Britain together, so don't take it kindly.
Looking at the comments on Sarah Wollaston's blog, I would guess that South Hams Conservatives are not a happy ship at the moment.
Picking up on some real local anger....
Mutiny in Dartmouth and the South Hams on the cards!
I read the comments. They're pretty evenly split between angry and supportive. She's going to be fine. I don't understand why she did what she did, but it's hardly the end of the world.
Nobody can understand what she did. Or what her attitude is to the EU now.
The comments are split 2:1 against.
Most people would have expected her to support Remain. South Hams is eurosceptic, but had she supported Remain, I'm sure people would have just shrugged. It's supporting Brexit repeatedly, up till 5 days ago, and then completely changing sides that's hard to fathom.
James Forsyth @JGForsyth Wonder if the Remain side have forgotten that Tory modernising dictum, that what you say about others tells voters more about you than them
James Forsyth @JGForsyth Wonder if the Remain side have forgotten that Tory modernising dictum, that what you say about others tells voters more about you than them
Had a very interesting conversation with a voter tonight.
He said he wanted to Vote Leave, but he thought it might be risky, what might persuade him in the future was if another country left and see how they did.
If we don't leave in a fortnight, which will be the first country to leave?
They prepared to be a lab rat for leaving the EU for our benefit?
There's a fighting chance it might be France. In which case, I shall become an ardent Remainer and look forward to the London-Berlin axis crushing all beneath it's booted heel. Hey, a girl can dream.
So sod everyone else including the Greeks and Italians and eastern Europeans and Nordics. Wow that's a positive vision for the future!
Had a very interesting conversation with a voter tonight.
He said he wanted to Vote Leave, but he thought it might be risky, what might persuade him in the future was if another country left and see how they did.
If we don't leave in a fortnight, which will be the first country to leave?
They prepared to be a lab rat for leaving the EU for our benefit?
There's a fighting chance it might be France. In which case, I shall become an ardent Remainer and look forward to the London-Berlin axis crushing all beneath it's booted heel. Hey, a girl can dream.
So sod everyone else including the Greeks and Italians and eastern Europeans and Nordics. Wow that's a positive vision for the future!
It was a quip hunchman, not a fecking manifesto commitment er I mean, ambition.
Isabel Oakeshott @IsabelOakeshott Of all the hundreds of MPs I've dealt with over the years, @andrealeadsom is one of the very most impressive #ITVEURef
Isabel Oakeshott @IsabelOakeshott Of all the hundreds of MPs I've dealt with over the years, @andrealeadsom is one of the very most impressive #ITVEURef
Leadsom vs. Stuart GE 2020. You heard it here first
Montie is turning in to Eoin for level of insight value.
Tim Montgomerie ن @montie 20m20 minutes ago Inners are Britisceptics. They think economy will fail. There'll be WW3. We'll treat workers badly. They may love UK but don't believe in it
Ruth DavidsonVerified account @RuthDavidsonMSP @montie@alexmassie you called inners Britsceptics. I've spent years of my life fighting to keep Britain together, so don't take it kindly.
Only seen the 2nd half of the debate tonight. My thought for this evening on watching it is. Why hasn't anyone from the Leave campaign said anything like this?
" We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state in Britain, only to see them re-imposed at a European level with a European super-state exercising a new dominance from Brussels."
It is nearly 30 years old but is just as relevant today.
By the lack of comments regarding Boris, I.am going to take it he didn't say much. Probably wise.
he's had a few good lines, but as the biggest target he's been smart to stay out of the limelight. His team mates have been excellent, indeed Andrea has rescued him a couple of times when under attack.
I'm usually a big fan of raptors but don't rate either Eagles at all. Can't imagine why they put her up for Labour when they could have had someone like Berger, Creasy or De Piero if it had to be a woman.
Agree on Nicola's point on Turkey. Leave shouldn't be playing that hard on it, given how far away it is (despite it being UK policy for us to support their membership).
Agree on Nicola's point on Turkey. Leave shouldn't be playing that hard on it, given how far away it is (despite it being UK policy for us to support their membership).
I agree, but last night I thought Osborne's most awkward and uncomfortable moment was when Neil pressed him on Britain supporting Turkey's membership. Very odd.
In case you missed it, I'll take the £20 on the 14/1 on Dr Wollaston bet.
OK remind me again of the terms please
If Remain wins, and Sarah Wollaston becomes a minister by the end of 2016, you win £20 If Remain wins, and Sarah Wollaston does not become a minister by the end of 2016, I win £280
Comments
This thread clearly demonstrates why most TV political debates don't change many minds. It's like reading comments on a Spurs message board during a game.
8.00pm: Remain 1.34
9.30pm: Remain 1.33
'Angela Eagle is crying again.'
Her attempt to change project fear to project smear has clearly failed big time.
He said he wanted to Vote Leave, but he thought it might be risky, what might persuade him in the future was if another country left and see how they did.
If we don't leave in a fortnight, which will be the first country to leave?
They prepared to be a lab rat for leaving the EU for our benefit?
So much applause.
'Rudd floundering now and she knows it.'
Don't think she'll be making any more public appearances for Remain.
How are Gisela Stuart and Angela Eagle in the same party?!
How are Andrea Leadsom and Amber Crudd in the same party?!
Hey, a girl can dream.
Tim Montgomerie ن @montie 20m20 minutes ago
Inners are Britisceptics. They think economy will fail. There'll be WW3. We'll treat workers badly. They may love UK but don't believe in it
Ruth DavidsonVerified account
@RuthDavidsonMSP
@montie @alexmassie you called inners Britsceptics. I've spent years of my life fighting to keep Britain together, so don't take it kindly.
Most people would have expected her to support Remain. South Hams is eurosceptic, but had she supported Remain, I'm sure people would have just shrugged. It's supporting Brexit repeatedly, up till 5 days ago, and then completely changing sides that's hard to fathom.
Wonder if the Remain side have forgotten that Tory modernising dictum, that what you say about others tells voters more about you than them
Reminded me of CNN saying it had been a good week for Marco Rubio week after week.
Of all the hundreds of MPs I've dealt with over the years, @andrealeadsom is one of the very most impressive #ITVEURef
Just sounds patronising to me....
My thought for this evening on watching it is.
Why hasn't anyone from the Leave campaign said anything like this?
" We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state in Britain, only to see them re-imposed at a European level with a European super-state exercising a new dominance from Brussels."
It is nearly 30 years old but is just as relevant today.
TSE are you named after her?
There won't be an enormous line of Tory MPs queuing to pledge allegiance to him as King-in-Waiting based on that performance.
I can't think of a single good point she's made.
She has that Thatcher ability to make things very clear very articulately. Very directly to the point.
Whether you agree with her or not, it's a great skill.
Rudd has put me off the environment. Makes me want to set fire to my wheelie bin.
You know what he was like when a 50/1 came in.
She's very knowledgeable tonight
If Remain wins, and Sarah Wollaston does not become a minister by the end of 2016, I win £280
If Leave wins, bet void