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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Independence Day is going to be mentioned a lot in the run

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    SeanT said:



    I reckon Brexit will be a shock, economically. I reckon it will bring on a recession (tho one we are due anyway). it will also impact me negatively personally in the form of lower London property prices.

    But in the medium term - 3-7 years - I think we will recover, and in the long term - 7-15 years (about as far as anyone can possibly predict in any way), I think we will be a richer, stronger, happier country, as compared to some cowed resentful entity in a half-Federalised EU dominated by a caucused eurozone asking us to pay for their mistakes.

    LEAVE.

    I suggest that the time scale before the UK sees some beneficial effect should be far shorter. The UK is the second biggest net contributor to the EU budget after Germany, all for the privilege of securing trade in the ratio of 3:2 in terms of imports from to exports to the EU. That means that the UK is left holding all the aces in the event of post-Brexit negotiations.Two things might broadly happen:

    Scenario one is that the EU plays hardball in terms of continued access to the single market and there is a serious contraction in the volume of EU-UK trade in both directions, let's say a scaling back of exports and imports of one third as that was mooted earlier as an extreme case. If so, the UK's net balance of payments deficit with the EU of £100bn (without which the UK would not have a balance of payments deficit at all) also shrinks by about £35bn. Thus the opportunities opened up for UK firms at home through import substitution would far outstripping the opportunities lost in EU markets. Even though there would be some shock of adjustment, the beneficial effects of this in revitalising UK manufacturing and service industries could be felt in the short to medium term, rather than the long term.

    Scenario two is that Bosch, VW et al come knocking on the EU Commission's door and faced with the EU's need to secure continued access to the £320bn currently exported to the UK, an accommodation is reached such that the single market continues pretty well as now. Thus the volume of UK-EU trade would be unaffected, but with the UK having secured some significant concessions from the EU in return that would improve the UK's ability to compete in EU markets. If so, there is no shock at all, just an immediate benefit to the ability of the UK to compete in EU markets.




    You left it late Phil, but from an easily comprehensible economic point of view, that must rate as post of the day.
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    Well the Telegraph had better heed the views of their customers.... or else.
    Smiley thing.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Sky Press Review has a Telegraph headline along the lines of Cameron Joins The Left.
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    This is John "165 seats" Major, we're talking about?

    John "30%" Major, no?

    Sir John 'Received more votes as PM than any another PM/Party leader in history' Major
    Then within 5 years squandered that good will shown to him by the electorate :lol:
    Wasn't it the worst result since 1861 or something?
    Since 1906.
    Ah, that's much better :-)
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Milan projection (20% of the sample): PD 42.6 Forza Italia/Lega 37.2 5 Stars 12.8 Left 3.8

    Turin (9%): PD 41.8 5 Stars 31.7

    Ravenna (6.5%): PD 42.3 Right 28.3

    Varese (5%): Right 46.2 PD 42.9
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    ROFLMAO.

    Had me going for a micro second but I looked at my clock.
    Grief ..... Is that really the rubbish I've been staying up for, plus I'm sure this poll or something very similar, involving Telegraph readers appeared on PB earlier today.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751
    chestnut said:

    Sky Press Review has a Telegraph headline along the lines of Cameron Joins The Left.

    I mentioned it down below, the Telegraph have lost their marbles.

    Boris campaigning for Leave alongside Labour and UKIP people is good

    Dave campaigning for Remain alongside Labour and Green people is bad.
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    ROFLMAO.

    Had me going for a micro second but I looked at my clock.
    Grief ..... Is that really the rubbish I've been staying up for, plus I'm sure this poll or something very similar, involving Telegraph readers appeared on PB earlier today.
    It isn't There are proper polls out at midnight.
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited June 2016

    This is John "165 seats" Major, we're talking about?

    John "30%" Major, no?

    Sir John 'Received more votes as PM than any another PM/Party leader in history' Major
    Then within 5 years squandered that good will shown to him by the electorate :lol:
    Wasn't it the worst result since 1861 or something?
    Since 1906.
    Major an appalling Leader.

    Heath and Cameron. One is a man who won one parliamentary majority, split his party, is exposed to have no political principles, is a europhile and desperately hangs onto a european economic system because his civil servants tell him it is a good idea. The other chap likes yachts and conducting.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,318

    I heard Michael Gove saying he would get immigration down to the tens of thousands. Hostage to fortune there, thought he would have learnt from DC

    If there is the political will and we are outside of the EU he could.
    We had 330,000 last year and 5% unemployment. Immigration will never be in tens of thousands unless our economy collapses
    Isn't that the plan? A price worth paying and all that.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,629

    chestnut said:

    Sky Press Review has a Telegraph headline along the lines of Cameron Joins The Left.

    I mentioned it down below, the Telegraph have lost their marbles.

    Boris campaigning for Leave alongside Labour and UKIP people is good

    Dave campaigning for Remain alongside Labour and Green people is bad.
    Dave in December reckoned we could "do OK" outside the EU.
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    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Jobabob said:

    This is John "165 seats" Major, we're talking about?

    John "30%" Major, no?

    Major is one of the underrated politicians in history. He defied political gravity in 1992 to win an election is adverse circumstances for the Tories, in a soapbox-standing street-fighting campaign. Of course, he was routed in 1997 after five years of being shat on by the eurosceptic right who were seemingly determined to render their party unelectable for a generation.
    Left wing revisionism on the premierships of Cameron and Major are fascinating. Apparently they were thoroughly good eggs. Presumably why Kinnock and Brown/Miliband all made no effort in trying to beat them.

    It would seem that Europe is as much of a morbid fascination for the left as the right.

    Major lost in 97 (and would have lost in 93) because of massive economic miscalculation in joining the ERM, and the consequent fallout. Look at the opinion polls.
    The Tories still led/tied in some ICM polls after Black Wednesday.

    ICM were the only pollster that were anywhere near the final result in 1997
    Next you're going to start claiming we were right to join the ERM?

    BTW, did you get to Tooting? I'm (quite literally) laid up with a bad back so won't make it. Truly saddened!
    We should never have the same interest rates (or the same currency) as our continental cousins.

    I was meant to go this forthcoming week, but our Brexit contingency planning has a put a nix to that.
    Stockpiling the bunker? :p
    Making plans for opening up a Paris office/subsidiary.
    Good luck with socialism, if they let you stay.
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    I heard Michael Gove saying he would get immigration down to the tens of thousands. Hostage to fortune there, thought he would have learnt from DC

    If there is the political will and we are outside of the EU he could.
    We had 330,000 last year and 5% unemployment. Immigration will never be in tens of thousands unless our economy collapses
    Isn't that the plan? A price worth paying and all that.
    No. It isn't.
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    hunchman said:

    Oh god - Caroline Nokes on Sky News now.

    Wide Screen?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751

    chestnut said:

    Sky Press Review has a Telegraph headline along the lines of Cameron Joins The Left.

    I mentioned it down below, the Telegraph have lost their marbles.

    Boris campaigning for Leave alongside Labour and UKIP people is good

    Dave campaigning for Remain alongside Labour and Green people is bad.
    Dave in December reckoned we could "do OK" outside the EU.
    As a true British patriot, my aspiration for this country is doing better than OK.

    Remain = The true patriotic option

    Leave = The refuge of the EDL, Neo Nazis, and the BNP
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    hunchman said:

    Oh god - Caroline Nokes on Sky News now.

    I have just turned that on and all I can see is Julia HB.
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    chestnut said:

    Sky Press Review has a Telegraph headline along the lines of Cameron Joins The Left.

    I mentioned it down below, the Telegraph have lost their marbles.

    Boris campaigning for Leave alongside Labour and UKIP people is good

    Dave campaigning for Remain alongside Labour and Green people is bad.
    Dave in December reckoned we could "do OK" outside the EU.
    As a true British patriot, my aspiration for this country is doing better than OK.

    Remain = The true patriotic option

    Leave = The refuge of the EDL, Neo Nazis, and the BNP
    No. Leave is the true patriotic democratic option.
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    chestnut said:

    Sky Press Review has a Telegraph headline along the lines of Cameron Joins The Left.

    I mentioned it down below, the Telegraph have lost their marbles.

    Boris campaigning for Leave alongside Labour and UKIP people is good

    Dave campaigning for Remain alongside Labour and Green people is bad.
    Dave in December reckoned we could "do OK" outside the EU.
    As a true British patriot, my aspiration for this country is doing better than OK.
    Remain = The true patriotic option
    Leave = The refuge of the EDL, Neo Nazis, and the BNP
    You desperate for clickbait to get the traffic numbers up for OGH while he is away?

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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,642

    SeanT said:



    I reckon Brexit will be a shock, economically. I reckon it will bring on a recession (tho one we are due anyway). it will also impact me negatively personally in the form of lower London property prices.

    But in the medium term - 3-7 years - I think we will recover, and in the long term - 7-15 years (about as far as anyone can possibly predict in any way), I think we will be a richer, stronger, happier country, as compared to some cowed resentful entity in a half-Federalised EU dominated by a caucused eurozone asking us to pay for their mistakes.

    LEAVE.

    I suggest that the time scale before the UK sees some beneficial effect should be far shorter. The UK is the second biggest net contributor to the EU budget after Germany, all for the privilege of securing trade in the ratio of 3:2 in terms of imports from to exports to the EU. That means that the UK is left holding all the aces in the event of post-Brexit negotiations.Two things might broadly happen:

    Scenario one is that the EU plays hardball in terms of continued access to the single market and there is a serious contraction in the volume of EU-UK trade in both directions, let's say a scaling back of exports and imports of one third as that was mooted earlier as an extreme case. If so, the UK's net balance of payments deficit with the EU of £100bn (without which the UK would not have a balance of payments deficit at all) also shrinks by about £35bn. Thus the opportunities opened up for UK firms at home through import substitution would far outstripping the opportunities lost in EU markets. Even though there would be some shock of adjustment, the beneficial effects of this in revitalising UK manufacturing and service industries could be felt in the short to medium term, rather than the long term.

    Scenario two is that Bosch, VW et al come knocking on the EU Commission's door and faced with the EU's need to secure continued access to the £320bn currently exported to the UK, an accommodation is reached such that the single market continues pretty well as now. Thus the volume of UK-EU trade would be unaffected, but with the UK having secured some significant concessions from the EU in return that would improve the UK's ability to compete in EU markets. If so, there is no shock at all, just an immediate benefit to the ability of the UK to compete in EU markets.




    You left it late Phil, but from an easily comprehensible economic point of view, that must rate as post of the day.
    Thanks. I am genuinely puzzled as to why the Leave campaign is failing to cite the balance of payments with the EU in order to counter the economic claims of the Remain camp.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,688

    SeanT said:



    I reckon Brexit will be a shock, economically. I reckon it will bring on a recession (tho one we are due anyway). it will also impact me negatively personally in the form of lower London property prices.

    But in the medium term - 3-7 years - I think we will recover, and in the long term - 7-15 years (about as far as anyone can possibly predict in any way), I think we will be a richer, stronger, happier country, as compared to some cowed resentful entity in a half-Federalised EU dominated by a caucused eurozone asking us to pay for their mistakes.

    LEAVE.

    I suggest that the time scale before the UK sees some beneficial effect should be far shorter. The UK is the second biggest net contributor to the EU budget after Germany, all for the privilege of securing trade in the ratio of 3:2 in terms of imports from to exports to the EU. That means that the UK is left holding all the aces in the event of post-Brexit negotiations.Two things might broadly happen:

    Scenario one is that the EU plays hardball in terms of continued access to the single market and there is a serious contraction in the volume of EU-UK trade in both directions, let's say a scaling back of exports and imports of one third as that was mooted earlier as an extreme case. If so, the UK's net balance of payments deficit with the EU of £100bn (without which the UK would not have a balance of payments deficit at all) also shrinks by about £35bn. Thus the opportunities opened up for UK firms at home through import substitution would far outstripping the opportunities lost in EU markets. Even though there would be some shock of adjustment, the beneficial effects of this in revitalising UK manufacturing and service industries could be felt in the short to medium term, rather than the long term.

    Scenario two is that Bosch, VW et al come knocking on the EU Commission's door and faced with the EU's need to secure continued access to the £320bn currently exported to the UK, an accommodation is reached such that the single market continues pretty well as now. Thus the volume of UK-EU trade would be unaffected, but with the UK having secured some significant concessions from the EU in return that would improve the UK's ability to compete in EU markets. If so, there is no shock at all, just an immediate benefit to the ability of the UK to compete in EU markets.




    You left it late Phil, but from an easily comprehensible economic point of view, that must rate as post of the day.
    Thanks. I am genuinely puzzled as to why the Leave campaign is failing to cite the balance of payments with the EU in order to counter the economic claims of the Remain camp.
    Because they're shit. Thanks for an excellent economic summation.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,049

    I heard Michael Gove saying he would get immigration down to the tens of thousands. Hostage to fortune there, thought he would have learnt from DC

    If there is the political will and we are outside of the EU he could.
    We had 330,000 last year and 5% unemployment. Immigration will never be in tens of thousands unless our economy collapses
    That 5% represents 1.7 million people unemployed.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    This is John "165 seats" Major, we're talking about?

    John "30%" Major, no?

    Sir John 'Received more votes as PM than any another PM/Party leader in history' Major
    Then within 5 years squandered that good will shown to him by the electorate :lol:
    Wasn't it the worst result since 1861 or something?
    Since 1906.
    Major an appalling Leader.

    Heath and Cameron. One is a man who won one parliamentary majority, split his party, is exposed to have no political principles, is a europhile and desperately hangs onto a european economic system because his civil servants tell him it is a good idea. The other chap likes yachts and conducting.
    Yes, and lets not go into his nefarious private life or the dubious aspects of Morning Cloud.

    Julia HB on Sky now as you say.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,161
    PAW said:

    The reason I will vote for exit is this - http://electrek.co/2016/06/02/tesla-model-3-fully-autonomous-elon-musk/?preview_id=17536 . If we want any part of new industries the government must take a part, and we are being locked out of the future by the EU because we cannot make any strategic investments. The remainers advance their personal financial status over the us, I don't care about people with apartments in France or Italy. I couldn't care less about holidays in Europe for the middle class. The middle class has become a parasite.

    Governments picking winners, and you lock out actual entrepreneurs like Elon Musk because they're immigrants. This would prove less of a winning formula than you're imagining.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    SeanT said:



    I reckon Brexit will be a shock, economically. I reckon it will bring on a recession (tho one we are due anyway). it will also impact me negatively personally in the form of lower London property prices.

    But in the medium term - 3-7 years - I think we will recover, and in the long term - 7-15 years (about as far as anyone can possibly predict in any way), I think we will be a richer, stronger, happier country, as compared to some cowed resentful entity in a half-Federalised EU dominated by a caucused eurozone asking us to pay for their mistakes.

    LEAVE.

    I suggest that the time scale before the UK sees some beneficial effect should be far shorter. The UK is the second biggest net contributor to the EU budget after Germany, all for the privilege of securing trade in the ratio of 3:2 in terms of imports from to exports to the EU. That means that the UK is left holding all the aces in the event of post-Brexit negotiations.Two things might broadly happen:

    Scenario one is that the EU plays hardball in terms of continued access to the single market and there is a serious contraction in the volume of EU-UK trade in both directions, let's say a scaling back of exports and imports of one third as that was mooted earlier as an extreme case. If so, the UK's net balance of payments deficit with the EU of £100bn (without which the UK would not have a balance of payments deficit at all) also shrinks by about £35bn. Thus the opportunities opened up for UK firms at home through import substitution would far outstripping the opportunities lost in EU markets. Even though there would be some shock of adjustment, the beneficial effects of this in revitalising UK manufacturing and service industries could be felt in the short to medium term, rather than the long term.

    Scenario two is that Bosch, VW et al come knocking on the EU Commission's door and faced with the EU's need to secure continued access to the £320bn currently exported to the UK, an accommodation is reached such that the single market continues pretty well as now. Thus the volume of UK-EU trade would be unaffected, but with the UK having secured some significant concessions from the EU in return that would improve the UK's ability to compete in EU markets. If so, there is no shock at all, just an immediate benefit to the ability of the UK to compete in EU markets.




    You left it late Phil, but from an easily comprehensible economic point of view, that must rate as post of the day.
    Thanks. I am genuinely puzzled as to why the Leave campaign is failing to cite the balance of payments with the EU in order to counter the economic claims of the Remain camp.
    If we take Gove at his word, then he should do so this week.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    tyson said:

    Exit polls from Italian mayoral elections

    Rome

    Raggi (5 Stars) 34-38%
    Giochetti (PD) 20-24
    Meloni (Right) 16-20
    Marchino (Forza Italia) 9-13
    Fassina (Left) 3-6

    Milan

    Sala (PD) 41-45
    Parisi (Forza Italia & Lega) 35-39
    5 Stars 8-12

    Turin

    Fassino (PD) 39-42
    5 Stars 28-32
    Right 7-11

    Naples

    De Magistris 43-47
    Lettieri (Forza Italia) 20-24
    Valente (PD) 15-19

    How does this compare with expectations, Andrea?
    Are we supposed to know who or what these parties are and what they stand for?
    Well, Andrea will correct me but my understanding is:

    PD is the Government - centre-left, mainstream former communists plus centrists, led by Renzi (charismatic young Blairite)
    Forza is Berlusconi - centre-right and primarily a vehicle for him
    5 stars is Beppo - the populists, kick the rascals out. No very stable political position
    The Left are those former communists and others who didn't fancy moving to the centre
    de Magistris is an independent former prosecutor.
    Well done Nick...good summary.

    One thing that I never thought I'd say though is that come June 24th the Italian Political system may well seem to be much more stable and coherent than our own.

    Andrea might not like to hear this, but Renzi is class. After Merkel, the standout political leader in Europe and someone who hopefully will lead Italy for some time to come.

    I am very pleased though that Raggi, 5 Star, has taken Rome. I like her very much.
    I share your sentiments on la Raggi;
    http://www.unita.tv/opinioni/a-destra-tutti-pazzi-per-valeria-raggi/
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    I suggest that the time scale before the UK sees some beneficial effect should be far shorter. The UK is the second biggest net contributor to the EU budget after Germany, all for the privilege of securing trade in the ratio of 3:2 in terms of imports from to exports to the EU. That means that the UK is left holding all the aces in the event of post-Brexit negotiations.Two things might broadly happen:

    Scenario one is that the EU plays hardball in terms of continued access to the single market and there is a serious contraction in the volume of EU-UK trade in both directions, let's say a scaling back of exports and imports of one third as that was mooted earlier as an extreme case. If so, the UK's net balance of payments deficit with the EU of £100bn (without which the UK would not have a balance of payments deficit at all) also shrinks by about £35bn. Thus the opportunities opened up for UK firms at home through import substitution would far outstripping the opportunities lost in EU markets. Even though there would be some shock of adjustment, the beneficial effects of this in revitalising UK manufacturing and service industries could be felt in the short to medium term, rather than the long term.

    Scenario two is that Bosch, VW et al come knocking on the EU Commission's door and faced with the EU's need to secure continued access to the £320bn currently exported to the UK, an accommodation is reached such that the single market continues pretty well as now. Thus the volume of UK-EU trade would be unaffected, but with the UK having secured some significant concessions from the EU in return that would improve the UK's ability to compete in EU markets. If so, there is no shock at all, just an immediate benefit to the ability of the UK to compete in EU markets.




    You left it late Phil, but from an easily comprehensible economic point of view, that must rate as post of the day.
    Thanks. I am genuinely puzzled as to why the Leave campaign is failing to cite the balance of payments with the EU in order to counter the economic claims of the Remain camp.
    Because they're shit. Thanks for an excellent economic summation.
    I have also cited the relative duty charges of the UK and EU under WTO rules.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    GBPUSD trading heavy at 1.4465 in advance of the two polls. We know one shows a leave lead, what about the other?
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    EstobarEstobar Posts: 558

    chestnut said:

    Sky Press Review has a Telegraph headline along the lines of Cameron Joins The Left.

    I mentioned it down below, the Telegraph have lost their marbles.

    Boris campaigning for Leave alongside Labour and UKIP people is good

    Dave campaigning for Remain alongside Labour and Green people is bad.
    Dave in December reckoned we could "do OK" outside the EU.

    Leave = The refuge of the EDL, Neo Nazis, and the BNP
    I hope that's a joke TSE, otherwise you have demeaned yourself.

    Not a bad thread though this time, albeit a tad bizarre re the cinema sequel.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,471
    hunchman said:

    GBPUSD trading heavy at 1.4465 in advance of the two polls. We know one shows a leave lead, what about the other?

    Only two minutes to wait
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,207
    Are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet?

    I think the midnight polls will show a LEAVE lead. Yesterday's ORB showed a swing to LEAVE on the old methodology.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,161

    I heard Michael Gove saying he would get immigration down to the tens of thousands. Hostage to fortune there, thought he would have learnt from DC

    If there is the political will and we are outside of the EU he could.
    We had 330,000 last year and 5% unemployment. Immigration will never be in tens of thousands unless our economy collapses
    No. You can simply tell people they can't come in. It means that there will be more competition for employees and so wages will rise.
    IIUC these are net migration numbers, so to be confident of keeping them at those levels you have to ban British people from returning and/or require British people to leave.

    A shitty economy would accomplish this naturally, though.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751
    viewcode said:

    Are we there yet are we there yet are we there yet?

    I think the midnight polls will show a LEAVE lead. Yesterday's ORB showed a swing to LEAVE on the old methodology.

    Embargo ends at 00.01
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751
    Latest TNS EU Ref poll

    Remain 41 (+3) Leave 43 (+2) DKs 16 (-5)

    Fieldwork ended a fortnight ago. FW dates: 19/5 to 23/5
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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215

    Latest TNS EU Ref poll

    Remain 41 (+3) Leave 43 (+2) DKs 16 (-5)

    Fieldwork ended a fortnight ago. FW dates: 19/5 to 23/5

    not really worth the hype !
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Latest TNS EU Ref poll

    Remain 41 (+3) Leave 43 (+2) DKs 16 (-5)

    Fieldwork ended a fortnight ago. FW dates: 19/5 to 23/5

    Hmph, a bit of an anticlimax, truth be told.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    Latest TNS EU Ref poll

    Remain 41 (+3) Leave 43 (+2) DKs 16 (-5)

    Fieldwork ended a fortnight ago. FW dates: 19/5 to 23/5

    A lot of use that over 10 days out of date now! Why release so late?!
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,339
    edited June 2016

    Latest TNS EU Ref poll

    Remain 41 (+3) Leave 43 (+2) DKs 16 (-5)

    Fieldwork ended a fortnight ago. FW dates: 19/5 to 23/5

    Did they lose that one down the back of the sofa?
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,049

    Latest TNS EU Ref poll

    Remain 41 (+3) Leave 43 (+2) DKs 16 (-5)

    Fieldwork ended a fortnight ago. FW dates: 19/5 to 23/5

    That's kind of.... anticlimactic
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751
    hunchman said:

    Latest TNS EU Ref poll

    Remain 41 (+3) Leave 43 (+2) DKs 16 (-5)

    Fieldwork ended a fortnight ago. FW dates: 19/5 to 23/5

    A lot of use that over 10 days out of date now! Why release so late?!
    Is part of a EU wide poll, the fieldwork of that ended last week
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,960

    Latest TNS EU Ref poll

    Remain 41 (+3) Leave 43 (+2) DKs 16 (-5)

    Fieldwork ended a fortnight ago. FW dates: 19/5 to 23/5

    A fortnight ago? What took them so long?!
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,322
    Presumably TNS is online?
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,322
    What about the second poll?
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    kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    Estobar said:

    chestnut said:

    Sky Press Review has a Telegraph headline along the lines of Cameron Joins The Left.

    I mentioned it down below, the Telegraph have lost their marbles.

    Boris campaigning for Leave alongside Labour and UKIP people is good

    Dave campaigning for Remain alongside Labour and Green people is bad.
    Dave in December reckoned we could "do OK" outside the EU.
    S
    Leave = The refuge of the EDL, Neo Nazis, and the BNP
    I hope that's a joke TSE, otherwise you have demeaned yourself.

    Not a bad thread though this time, albeit a tad bizarre re the cinema sequel.
    So TSE you think only racists are concerned about democracy freedom and immigration and an unelected eu elite. Just because this is a free country and even the extremists can tag onto leave or remain doesn't mean the cause is unreasonable. You do demean yourself by such comments
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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    MikeL said:

    What about the second poll?

    YouGov, and it's a 4 point Leave lead.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited June 2016
    EU refernedum poll:
    Remain: 41% (-)
    Leave: 45% (+4)
    (via YouGov)
    Chgs. from 30 - 31 May.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,049
    "TNS POLL FINDS".

    There I said it just to please our European neighbours.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    MikeL said:

    What about the second poll?

    What other EU countries want us to do isn't it?!

    What a damp squib.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,339
    Bob...Bob...what happened to that poll we did the other week...oh s##t...you mean this one....pulls out the bottom of his bag.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751
    There's a YouGov poll out for the GMB which is

    Leave 45 Remain 41 - Am still waiting for the fieldwork dates on that one
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,960
    But how about that Yougov, folks!
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,954
    edited June 2016
    :( @ TNS
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    DanSmith said:

    MikeL said:

    What about the second poll?

    YouGov, and it's a 4 point Leave lead.
    Finally!

    GBPUSD down 20 ticks in the last few minutes
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Yougov poll

    Remain 41 -1
    Leave 45 +6
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,958

    SeanT said:



    I reckon Brexit will be a shock, economically. I reckon it will bring on a recession (tho one we are due anyway). it will also impact me negatively personally in the form of lower London property prices.

    But in the medium term - 3-7 years - I think we will recover, and in the long term - 7-15 years (about as far as anyone can possibly predict in any way), I think we will be a richer, stronger, happier country, as compared to some cowed resentful entity in a half-Federalised EU dominated by a caucused eurozone asking us to pay for their mistakes.

    LEAVE.

    I suggest that the time scale before the UK sees some beneficial effect should be far shorter. The UK is the second biggest net contributor to the EU budget after Germany, all for the privilege of securing trade in the ratio of 3:2 in terms of imports from to exports to the EU. That means that the UK is left holding all the aces in the event of post-Brexit negotiations.Two things might broadly happen:

    Scenario one is that the EU plays hardball in terms of continued access to the single market and there is a serious contraction in the volume of EU-UK trade in both directions, let's say a scaling back of exports and imports of one third as that was mooted earlier as an extreme case. If so, the UK's net balance of payments deficit with the EU of £100bn (without which the UK would not have a balance of payments deficit at all) also shrinks by about £35bn. Thus the opportunities opened up for UK firms at home through import substitution would far outstripping the opportunities lost in EU markets. Even though there would be some shock of adjustment, the beneficial effects of this in revitalising UK manufacturing and service industries could be felt in the short to medium term, rather than the long term.

    Scenario two is that Bosch, VW et al come knocking on the EU Commission's door and faced with the EU's need to secure continued access to the £320bn currently exported to the UK, an accommodation is reached such that the single market continues pretty well as now. Thus the volume of UK-EU trade would be unaffected, but with the UK having secured some significant concessions from the EU in return that would improve the UK's ability to compete in EU markets. If so, there is no shock at all, just an immediate benefit to the ability of the UK to compete in EU markets.




    You left it late Phil, but from an easily comprehensible economic point of view, that must rate as post of the day.
    The problem is not Bosch and VW but the service industries which will become overloaded with regulation.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,954
    :smiley: @ YouGov
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,300

    "TNS POLL FINDS".

    There I said it just to please our European neighbours.
    Over a third of French voters want us to leave though, no surprise given De Gaulle vetoed UK entry in the first place!
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    hunchman said:

    DanSmith said:

    MikeL said:

    What about the second poll?

    YouGov, and it's a 4 point Leave lead.
    Finally!

    GBPUSD down 20 ticks in the last few minutes
    Make that 50 and counting!
  • Options
    EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    MP_SE said:
    Bloody hell.

    The Leave momentum is not just a one-off blip. That's a week's worth now.
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    hunchman said:

    hunchman said:

    DanSmith said:

    MikeL said:

    What about the second poll?

    YouGov, and it's a 4 point Leave lead.
    Finally!

    GBPUSD down 20 ticks in the last few minutes
    Make that 50 and counting!
    Looks like the 1.44 support from Friday going to arrest the fall
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,960
    edited June 2016
    I'm guessing a lot of comments tomorrow are going to suggest that Remain need to go harder on the economic argument. Yawn.

    Poor strategy and poor execution by Remain is leading to poll leads for Leave. This might just happen.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751

    "TNS POLL FINDS".

    There I said it just to please our European neighbours.
    I've had four fooking hours with this poll, and I still balls it up

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/739594114115702784
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Estobar said:

    MP_SE said:
    Bloody hell.

    The Leave momentum is not just a one-off blip. That's a week's worth now.
    Hopefully it can be maintained. One thing is sure, Euroscepticism is now mainstream.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    We can do it.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751
    Re the TNS poll

    Since our previous poll, changes have been made to the past political weighting and the EU referendum voting intentions are now turnout adjusted. Further details are included in the methodological note which prefaces the data tables
  • Options
    I'm sure we had those "Please don't go" figures from our EU neighbours 2 or 3 days ago or at least something very similar.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,049

    "TNS POLL FINDS".

    There I said it just to please our European neighbours.
    I've had four fooking hours with this poll, and I still balls it up

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/739594114115702784
    LOL. Don't worry mate. We may swear at you for your treasonous views but we do still very much appreciate the work you put in on the site.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,207
    I need to remind you that I put £500 on LEAVE@5/2 on Friday.

    I may have mentioned it.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,960
    This should knock wailing Sir John off the news cycle. What a shame for the chap.
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    hunchman said:

    hunchman said:

    hunchman said:

    DanSmith said:

    MikeL said:

    What about the second poll?

    YouGov, and it's a 4 point Leave lead.
    Finally!

    GBPUSD down 20 ticks in the last few minutes
    Make that 50 and counting!
    Looks like the 1.44 support from Friday going to arrest the fall
    Errrr nope! Just gone and collapsed to 1.4375 area - somebody is $hitting themselves.
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,642
    Confirmation that Cameron could have struck a much harder bargain if he'd really tried.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    SeanT said:

    Latest TNS EU Ref poll

    Remain 41 (+3) Leave 43 (+2) DKs 16 (-5)

    Fieldwork ended a fortnight ago. FW dates: 19/5 to 23/5

    Utterly useless poll, for either side. Too old
    Wrong. It confirms a trend.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Mortimer said:

    I'm guessing a lot of comments tomorrow are going to suggest that Remain need to go harder on the economic argument. Yawn.

    Poor strategy and poor execution by Remain is leading to poll leads for Leave. This might just happen.

    It explains Major being wheeled out to be rude. Name calling is all they've got left.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Leave > 30% on Betfair
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,954
    Have we got ICM tomorrow (today) ?
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,322
    Well these polls have moved Betfair significantly.

    Remain out from 1.39 to 1.44 in the last 10 minutes.

    Leave in from 3.5 to 3.2.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,960
    SeanT said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    EU refernedum poll:
    Remain: 41% (-)
    Leave: 45% (+4)
    (via YouGov)
    Chgs. from 30 - 31 May.

    OK that's big.

    LEAVE is now clearly leading.

    There will be crossover in the next poll of polls.

    What are the chances of this? I doubt this is on the REMAINIACS grid.

    lol

    Can we have a yet another pb threader on the total shitness of the LEAVE campaign? Thanks. It will help any of us who want to bet, when we know to bet entirely the other way.
    I've a thread in the pipeline suggesting more reasons why Remain are losing - was worried it might be overtaken by events but looks like it might yet be timely.
  • Options
    OUTOUT Posts: 569
    Oh!
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited June 2016
    I wonder if we going to get an EU vow.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,688
    Roger said:

    SeanT said:



    I reckon Brexit will be a shock, economically. I reckon it will bring on a recession (tho one we are due anyway). it will also impact me negatively personally in the form of lower London property prices.

    But in the medium term - 3-7 years - I think we will recover, and in the long term - 7-15 years (about as far as anyone can possibly predict in any way), I think we will be a richer, stronger, happier country, as compared to some cowed resentful entity in a half-Federalised EU dominated by a caucused eurozone asking us to pay for their mistakes.

    LEAVE.

    I suggest that the time scale before the UK sees some beneficial effect should be far shorter. The UK is the second biggest net contributor to the EU budget after Germany, all for the privilege of securing trade in the ratio of 3:2 in terms of imports from to exports to the EU. That means that the UK is left holding all the aces in the event of post-Brexit negotiations.Two things might broadly happen:

    Scenario one is that the EU plays hardball in terms of continued access to the single market and there is a serious contraction in the volume of EU-UK trade in both directions, let's say a scaling back of exports and imports of one third as that was mooted earlier as an extreme case. If so, the UK's net balance of payments deficit with the EU of £100bn (without which the UK would not have a balance of payments deficit at all) also shrinks by about £35bn. Thus the opportunities opened up for UK firms at home through import substitution would far outstripping the opportunities lost in EU markets. Even though there would be some shock of adjustment, the beneficial effects of this in revitalising UK manufacturing and service industries could be felt in the short to medium term, rather than the long term.

    Scenario two is that Bosch, VW et al come knocking on the EU Commission's door and faced with the EU's need to secure continued access to the £320bn currently exported to the UK, an accommodation is reached such that the single market continues pretty well as now. Thus the volume of UK-EU trade would be unaffected, but with the UK having secured some significant concessions from the EU in return that would improve the UK's ability to compete in EU markets. If so, there is no shock at all, just an immediate benefit to the ability of the UK to compete in EU markets.




    You left it late Phil, but from an easily comprehensible economic point of view, that must rate as post of the day.
    The problem is not Bosch and VW but the service industries which will become overloaded with regulation.
    Does this mean they might have to travel...

    *shudders*

    ...business class?
  • Options
    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited June 2016
    Peter Kellner - based on these figures from your own polling company, do you still believe that "REMAIN are probably still ahead .... just" ??
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751
    edited June 2016
    Deleted
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,960

    Before you all get over excited by that YouGov, the fieldwork dates haven't been confirmed, and the last YouGov/GMB poll was fairly old by the time it came out.

    I think that horse has bolted TSE! We're pretty damn excited.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    MP_SE said:

    I wonder if we going to get an EU vow.

    Junker too inebriated to make one.
  • Options
    EstobarEstobar Posts: 558

    Before you all get over excited by that YouGov, the fieldwork dates haven't been confirmed, and the last YouGov/GMB poll was fairly old by the time it came out.

    Lol
  • Options
    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited June 2016
    MP_SE said:

    I wonder if we going to get an EU vow.

    Not sure what you mean, but I think we are getting quite close to Cameron making an "emergency" appeal for the people to vote REMAIN.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751
    Correction it's a poll for Good Morning Britain, not the GMB union
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    SeanT said:

    RodCrosby said:

    SeanT said:

    Latest TNS EU Ref poll

    Remain 41 (+3) Leave 43 (+2) DKs 16 (-5)

    Fieldwork ended a fortnight ago. FW dates: 19/5 to 23/5

    Utterly useless poll, for either side. Too old
    Wrong. It confirms a trend.
    Yes possibly. I was a bit frustrated, given the build up.

    There is definitely a trend. It mirrors the Sindyref trend but starts from a higher base, and with less pushback from a silent minority.

    OUT could VERY easily win this, now.

    I reckon Cameron is now toast, whatever happens. That's where the VALUE is.
    Very much agreed and sell Sterling too, like the smart money already has from the USD 1.47 high.

    Need to catch some sleep.

    Good night all. Good night remain apologists. Vote LEAVE.
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,642
    PlatoSaid said:

    Mortimer said:

    I'm guessing a lot of comments tomorrow are going to suggest that Remain need to go harder on the economic argument. Yawn.

    Poor strategy and poor execution by Remain is leading to poll leads for Leave. This might just happen.

    It explains Major being wheeled out to be rude. Name calling is all they've got left.
    Up to a week or so ago they were using the machinery of government to come up with a series of spurious official "studies" making the Remain case and dominating the news agenda as each one was issued in succession on a daily basis. Now we're in the official campaign period they can't do that and the playing field has been levelled.

    The change just happens to coincide with the resurgence of Leave in the polls.
  • Options
    EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    edited June 2016
    SeanT said:

    Deleted

    Have you not got a threader on how SHIT the LEAVE campaign is, to console yourself? You ran seventeen fucking thousand of them earlier in the month, despite some of us telling you this was bollocks?

    Surely there's one left? No? Just one? Maybe an earnest nine hundred page analysis by Alistair Meeks? No? Really? Nothing?

    What a farce you have made of this site. A BETTING site. And we warned you, time and again.
    Haha Sean. Come off the fence please?

    Spot on though. This site is crap sometimes.* It got GE2015 utterly wrong, thanks to the thread writers' refusal to remove their blinkers. You'd think they'd have learned some humility but, nope, the same old one-sided garbage thread after thread despite clearly and evidentially flying in the face of public opinion (and the majority of punters on here).


    * Cue kindergarten response of: if you don't like it then leave nah nah nah nah
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,300

    Peter Kellner - based on these figures from your own polling company, do you still believe that "REMAIN are probably still ahead .... just" ??

    Mind you it was about this time in indyref yougov had Yes ahead, still a fortnight to go and the main change is some undecideds have shifted to Leave while Remain is unchanged, where the rest of the undecideds go will be pivotal. Goodnight
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,322
    Betfair stabilises - ticks back from 1.44 to 1.43.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    MP_SE said:

    I wonder if we going to get an EU vow.

    RoyalBlue said:

    We can do it.

    I know I'm actually starting to feel we could win this now. I know peope said this in Scotland but the union of the U.K is about the heart aswell as the head the E.U is only about your head.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,322
    What I would like to see now is a Wisdom Index.

    Think someone is doing Wisdom polls on EU as well as normal voting intention.

    Wisdom is key - to what extent are changes in voting intention feeding through into the Wisdom?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,318
    weejonnie said:

    MP_SE said:

    I wonder if we going to get an EU vow.

    Junker too inebriated to make one.
    "I love you I do."
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,751
    edited June 2016

    NEW THREAD NEW THREAD

This discussion has been closed.