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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betting on the Democratic Party California primary

SystemSystem Posts: 11,721
edited May 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betting on the Democratic Party California primary

Perhaps I’m reading too much into the tweet by the political correspondent of The Washington Post, but Hillary Clinton’s actions don’t appear to be the actions of someone confident of winning California, There is of course huge symbolism if she fails to win California, America’s most populous state, people will inevitability say she’s the wrong candidate to win in…

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  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    I've been asked by Mrs Jack W to advise this blog that Jack was taken ill yesterday morning and will not be here until further notice.

    Peter Waters routed via Dubai.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2016
    Morning all.

    Hillary’s attempt to shore up California does make one wonder what her private polling shows.

    [edit] Cheers Mr Waters, - get well soon JackW.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Sanders' vote is hideously white, California is majority non-white, so Mrs Bill should beat the Bern.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,251
    All best wishes for a speedy recovery to Mr Jack W.
  • Options
    JackW said:

    I've been asked by Mrs Jack W to advise this blog that Jack was taken ill yesterday morning and will not be here until further notice.

    Peter Waters routed via Dubai.

    Sorry to hear that. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,019
    edited May 2016
    Morning. 4/1 seems good in a two horse race with the polling showing only a couple of points in it. Hillary can be laid for next president at 1.55 on Betfair, which covers all the possibilities over the next few months.

    Edit: get well soon Jack!
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,118
    JackW said:

    I've been asked by Mrs Jack W to advise this blog that Jack was taken ill yesterday morning and will not be here until further notice.

    Peter Waters routed via Dubai.

    Oh dear. Best wishes to Jack for a speedy recovery. He’ll be missed.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Best wishes to @JackW for a speedy recovery in time for the Referendum Result or any other result.
  • Options
    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    JackW said:

    I've been asked by Mrs Jack W to advise this blog that Jack was taken ill yesterday morning and will not be here until further notice.

    Peter Waters routed via Dubai.

    Best wishes to JackW.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,497
    All the best to @JackW.

    I think TSE is reading just a little too much into this. I think Hillary is being damaged by the perception of staggering over the line. She needs and will want a proper win to take her over the top in delegates and to end the Berne once and for all.

    I am sure that she would rather be focussing on the general but with the recent spate of activity on the e-mail/server front and Bernie spending advertising like a born again capitalist in California she simply cannot give any perception that she is taking California for granted.

    She is a very ordinary candidate but generally does her best when her back is against the wall. And it is. She cannot win the Presidency in California but she can lose it. The damage Sanders is doing to the Democratic party is incalculable. But then, like Trump on the republican side, he has never really been a member of it anyway.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Best wishes, Mr W.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,771
    edited May 2016
    Best wishes for a speedy recovery Jack
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,019
    Electoral Commission orders Bristol to resend 47,000 postal votes and writes to all returning officers, as similar 'biased' guidance notes have also been seen in Kent, West Sussex, Hertfordshire and Greater Manchester.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/council-to-pulp-eu-referendum-postal-ballots-as-bias-row-spreads/
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    DavidL said:

    All the best to @JackW.

    I think TSE is reading just a little too much into this. I think Hillary is being damaged by the perception of staggering over the line. She needs and will want a proper win to take her over the top in delegates and to end the Berne once and for all.

    I am sure that she would rather be focussing on the general but with the recent spate of activity on the e-mail/server front and Bernie spending advertising like a born again capitalist in California she simply cannot give any perception that she is taking California for granted.

    She is a very ordinary candidate but generally does her best when her back is against the wall. And it is. She cannot win the Presidency in California but she can lose it. The damage Sanders is doing to the Democratic party is incalculable. But then, like Trump on the republican side, he has never really been a member of it anyway.

    Bernie is certainly doing a tremendous job as Hillary's ball and chain. TBH, whilst many thought Trump would be a goner - it's Sanders that's had me rubbing my eyes.

    Who'd have thought that a flower power red-under-the-bed would be Hillary's worst nightmare?

    He's clearly enjoying every minute of it. If she doesn't have a wax doll with pins in it, she needs one. He's kept her on the defensive, and pushed her to the Left.

    That's she's found him so hard to beat says everything about her candidacy.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,844
    JackW said:

    I've been asked by Mrs Jack W to advise this blog that Jack was taken ill yesterday morning and will not be here until further notice.

    Peter Waters routed via Dubai.

    Thank you for letting us know - I trust Jack W has not been over-exerting his ARSE - and best wishes for a speedy recovery....
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited May 2016
    Sandpit said:

    Electoral Commission orders Bristol to resend 47,000 postal votes and writes to all returning officers, as similar 'biased' guidance notes have also been seen in Kent, West Sussex, Hertfordshire and Greater Manchester.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/council-to-pulp-eu-referendum-postal-ballots-as-bias-row-spreads/

    The Times is reporting that Bristol are refusing to reissue ballots, but will send new ones for the final 5k.

    I can't see that being good enough. If they're wrong enough to be redesigned, they wrong enough to be reissued. The same goes for all the rest. We can't have an Austria scenario where a very tight result ends up being questioned.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Get well soon, @JackW
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sandpit said:

    Electoral Commission orders Bristol to resend 47,000 postal votes and writes to all returning officers, as similar 'biased' guidance notes have also been seen in Kent, West Sussex, Hertfordshire and Greater Manchester.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/council-to-pulp-eu-referendum-postal-ballots-as-bias-row-spreads/

    The link does not say that they've been ordered to resend the votes.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Get well soon Jack.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    Best wishes to JackW. Hopefully, he'll soon be well enough to recalibrate his referendum Arse.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    edited May 2016
    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,019
    edited May 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    Sandpit said:

    Electoral Commission orders Bristol to resend 47,000 postal votes and writes to all returning officers, as similar 'biased' guidance notes have also been seen in Kent, West Sussex, Hertfordshire and Greater Manchester.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/council-to-pulp-eu-referendum-postal-ballots-as-bias-row-spreads/

    The Times is reporting that Bristol are refusing to reissue ballots, but will send new ones for the final 5k.

    I can't see that being good enough. If they're wrong enough to be redesigned, they wrong enough to be reissued. The same goes for all the rest. We can't have an Austria scenario where a very tight result ends up being questioned.
    On second reading it appears to have changed from the 47,000 postal votes sent already being resent, to amending only the 5,000 votes not sent out yet.

    Disgraceful if true, as you say if they're wrong enough to need reprinting then they should reprint the whole run. A close result will almost certainly now end up in court, didn't a judge in a similar case once describe an election as being like that of 'A Banana Republic'?
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    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited May 2016
    In other news I see that Boris and co are putting the boot in on VAT on energy bills today pointing out that currently we cannot abolish it or reduce it below 5% because the EU wont let us.

    Seems to me Vote Leave have their own grid, backloaded to the last four weeks after purdah takes effect.

    Remain, Remain, your not singing anymore, your not singing anymore.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Brexit message de jour - leaving would allow us to cut VAT on fuel, or afford smaller class sizes.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,019

    Sandpit said:

    Electoral Commission orders Bristol to resend 47,000 postal votes and writes to all returning officers, as similar 'biased' guidance notes have also been seen in Kent, West Sussex, Hertfordshire and Greater Manchester.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/council-to-pulp-eu-referendum-postal-ballots-as-bias-row-spreads/

    The link does not say that they've been ordered to resend the votes.
    Yes, looks like the story changed and the council is refusing to reissue those sent out already. Bad form, but from the discussions yesterday not particularly surprising for Bristol City Council.
  • Options

    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273

    Personally I think the leave win and turnout under 65% at 7/1 was the resl lulu
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.

    He has three weeks and two days to save his legacy. If Leave wins he will be remembered as nothing but a failure. To lose a two horse race to Boris Johnson certainly takes some doing.

  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273

    Personally I think the leave win and turnout under 65% at 7/1 was the resl lulu

    Yep - that was my big one.

  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Morning. 4/1 seems good in a two horse race with the polling showing only a couple of points in it. Hillary can be laid for next president at 1.55 on Betfair, which covers all the possibilities over the next few months.

    Edit: get well soon Jack!

    The first four words of your last sentence has given my imagination post traumatic stress.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    PlatoSaid said:

    Brexit message de jour - leaving would allow us to cut VAT on fuel, or afford smaller class sizes.

    Fantastic! And all that on top of a massive spending boost for the NHS. The magic money tree is a marvellous thing :-)

  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sandpit said:

    Electoral Commission orders Bristol to resend 47,000 postal votes and writes to all returning officers, as similar 'biased' guidance notes have also been seen in Kent, West Sussex, Hertfordshire and Greater Manchester.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/council-to-pulp-eu-referendum-postal-ballots-as-bias-row-spreads/

    The Times is reporting that Bristol are refusing to reissue ballots, but will send new ones for the final 5k.

    I can't see that being good enough. If they're wrong enough to be redesigned, they wrong enough to be reissued. The same goes for all the rest. We can't have an Austria scenario where a very tight result ends up being questioned.
    On second reading it appears to have changed from the 47,000 postal votes sent already being resent, to amending only the 5,000 votes not sent out yet.

    Disgraceful if true, as you say if they're wrong enough to need reprinting then they should reprint the whole run. A close result will almost certainly now end up in court, didn't a judge in a similar case once describe an election as being like that of 'A Banana Republic'?
    That was about fraud and outight stealing of votes rather than dodgy instructions.

    Of course, if postal voting weren't so easy this wouldn't be much of a problem.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    I think I've mentioned before I dislike Cameron, can't remember, yesterday was another example of how he'll prostitute himself to anybody. A couple of weeks after slagging him off and encouraging pictures of bombed double deckers, he called Khan "a proud muslim". Perhaps he'll call Gerry Adams "a proud catholic" or Ed "a proud jew". Identity politics at its worst, a desperate, duplicitous PM prepared to say anything, yes anything, to meet his own ends.

    He makes Blair look principled and sincere.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,019

    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273

    Personally I think the leave win and turnout under 65% at 7/1 was the resl lulu

    Yep - that was my big one.

    Are we thinking the turnout will be below that at the general election? Not bet on it yet but there have been lots of reports here of increasing voter registration in the past weeks - is this a genuine increase in engagement, or is it a legacy of the re-registration exercise from last year leaving people unregistered?
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.

    He has three weeks and two days to save his legacy. If Leave wins he will be remembered as nothing but a failure. To lose a two horse race to Boris Johnson certainly takes some doing.

    Too late, his legacy (whatever it means) is trashed. According to Guido half his MPs oppose him, he's the lamest of lame ducks, the referendum is irrelevant.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    Sandpit said:

    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273

    Personally I think the leave win and turnout under 65% at 7/1 was the resl lulu

    Yep - that was my big one.

    Are we thinking the turnout will be below that at the general election? Not bet on it yet but there have been lots of reports here of increasing voter registration in the past weeks - is this a genuine increase in engagement, or is it a legacy of the re-registration exercise from last year leaving people unregistered?

    I'd be careful on that. The new registration rules require it to be done on an individual rather than a household basis. It could just be something to do with that as it is bound to lead to a lot more applications. We submitted four applications from our house this time rather than just one.

  • Options

    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.

    He has three weeks and two days to save his legacy. If Leave wins he will be remembered as nothing but a failure. To lose a two horse race to Boris Johnson certainly takes some doing.

    The same Boris who beat Leninspart twice in a two horse race in London FFS.

    The same Leninspart who Thatcher cancelled the last GLC election to stop Leninspart winning a landslide and who after being deselected by Blair as mayor beat both Tory and Labour candidates as an independent.

    Underestimate Boris at your peril.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,519
    Best wishes to @JackW
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.

    He has three weeks and two days to save his legacy. If Leave wins he will be remembered as nothing but a failure. To lose a two horse race to Boris Johnson certainly takes some doing.

    The same Boris who beat Leninspart twice in a two horse race in London FFS.

    The same Leninspart who Thatcher cancelled the last GLC election to stop Leninspart winning a landslide and who after being deselected by Blair as mayor beat both Tory and Labour candidates as an independent.

    Underestimate Boris at your peril.

    Yep, the Boris who beat the anti-Semitic, tax-avoiding hypocrite Ken Livingstone.

  • Options

    Sandpit said:

    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273

    Personally I think the leave win and turnout under 65% at 7/1 was the resl lulu

    Yep - that was my big one.

    Are we thinking the turnout will be below that at the general election? Not bet on it yet but there have been lots of reports here of increasing voter registration in the past weeks - is this a genuine increase in engagement, or is it a legacy of the re-registration exercise from last year leaving people unregistered?

    I'd be careful on that. The new registration rules require it to be done on an individual rather than a household basis. It could just be something to do with that as it is bound to lead to a lot more applications. We submitted four applications from our house this time rather than just one.

    I submitted nil and I have my voting card.

    We were all rolled over last Autumn, I just had to log on online after getting the letter from the council to confirm no changes
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    Sandpit said:

    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273

    Personally I think the leave win and turnout under 65% at 7/1 was the resl lulu

    Yep - that was my big one.

    Are we thinking the turnout will be below that at the general election? Not bet on it yet but there have been lots of reports here of increasing voter registration in the past weeks - is this a genuine increase in engagement, or is it a legacy of the re-registration exercise from last year leaving people unregistered?

    I'd be careful on that. The new registration rules require it to be done on an individual rather than a household basis. It could just be something to do with that as it is bound to lead to a lot more applications. We submitted four applications from our house this time rather than just one.

    I submitted nil and I have my voting card.

    We were all rolled over last Autumn, I just had to log on online after getting the letter from the council to confirm no changes

    It's different for different people/households. We did it all again.

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,019

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sandpit said:

    Electoral Commission orders Bristol to resend 47,000 postal votes and writes to all returning officers, as similar 'biased' guidance notes have also been seen in Kent, West Sussex, Hertfordshire and Greater Manchester.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/council-to-pulp-eu-referendum-postal-ballots-as-bias-row-spreads/

    The Times is reporting that Bristol are refusing to reissue ballots, but will send new ones for the final 5k.

    I can't see that being good enough. If they're wrong enough to be redesigned, they wrong enough to be reissued. The same goes for all the rest. We can't have an Austria scenario where a very tight result ends up being questioned.
    On second reading it appears to have changed from the 47,000 postal votes sent already being resent, to amending only the 5,000 votes not sent out yet.

    Disgraceful if true, as you say if they're wrong enough to need reprinting then they should reprint the whole run. A close result will almost certainly now end up in court, didn't a judge in a similar case once describe an election as being like that of 'A Banana Republic'?
    That was about fraud and outight stealing of votes rather than dodgy instructions.

    Of course, if postal voting weren't so easy this wouldn't be much of a problem.
    Yes, it was from 2005, about postal voting fraud in Birmingham.
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/apr/05/politics.localgovernment
    "Judge slates 'banana republic' postal voting system"

    Not sure how much better it has got since then, the re-registration last year should have helped though. I guess the way forward would be postal votes to be applied for for every election or referendum individually. It would be a pain for me as I'm away more than I'm in the UK, but would stop a lot of the outright fraud.

    Are there really 52,000 people in Bristol travelling or too sick to vote in person next month?
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,448
    "If she wasn’t facing Trump in November, I’d struggle to come up with plausible reasons on why you should be backing her to win The White House race in November."

    Spot on. She is a very weak candidate: a poor campaigner with a mediocre track-record in office.

    I remain of the view that Trump remains value. He's reached the stage where he hardly has to campaign on his policies; he can just devote time to bashing Hillary. She can of course fight back in kind but I wonder how much difference that will make. Trump enthuses, Hillary doesn't; but then Trump has more (but by no means a monopoly of) virulent antis.

    On California, Clinton is clearly rattled. She must believe that there is at least a reasonable possibility that the 2%-lead polls are right and that it's far too close for safety. Given Sanders' record in states outside the South, that's not too surprising. She also has a momentum issue: she can't credibly claim that she is already the nominee-presumptive while also arguing that the result of the primary is crucial to her chances. How does she motivate people to vote for her if it'll have little to no difference on the outcome? I think Sanders might just do it.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.

    He has three weeks and two days to save his legacy. If Leave wins he will be remembered as nothing but a failure. To lose a two horse race to Boris Johnson certainly takes some doing.

    The thing you need to remember about Boris is that people like him.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.

    He has three weeks and two days to save his legacy. If Leave wins he will be remembered as nothing but a failure. To lose a two horse race to Boris Johnson certainly takes some doing.

    The thing you need to remember about Boris is that people like him.

    They also think he's a bit of a fool.

  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.

    He has three weeks and two days to save his legacy. If Leave wins he will be remembered as nothing but a failure. To lose a two horse race to Boris Johnson certainly takes some doing.

    Too late, his legacy (whatever it means) is trashed. According to Guido half his MPs oppose him, he's the lamest of lame ducks, the referendum is irrelevant.
    TBH, for bods like me who generally trusted him - he's toast. I don't believe a word he says.

    I keep having conversations on Twitter about this - so many feel duped and are looking back on other events which now look quite different in retrospect.

    Like discovering you've been cheated on, all those nights working late take on another life.
  • Options

    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273

    Personally I think the leave win and turnout under 65% at 7/1 was the resl lulu

    Yep - that was my big one.

    Dont blame you those are incredibly generous odds
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,448

    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273

    Personally I think the leave win and turnout under 65% at 7/1 was the resl lulu
    I agree. (I think - no idea what 'resl lulu' means but am guessing it's 'bet to back')
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    edited May 2016

    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273

    Personally I think the leave win and turnout under 65% at 7/1 was the resl lulu

    Yep - that was my big one.

    Dont blame you those are incredibly generous odds

    A gift, I'd say.

    I took a bit of the 8/1 too to cover myself. I just can't see Leave losing this. Immigration is a total killer for Remain.

  • Options

    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273

    Personally I think the leave win and turnout under 65% at 7/1 was the resl lulu
    I agree. (I think - no idea what 'resl lulu' means but am guessing it's 'bet to back')
    Typo - real lulu
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,844
    In his maiden speech as a Tory MP six years ago, Andrew Bridgen joked about being a little Englander. Three years later he was so outraged by the idea of same-sex marriage he demanded the ousting of David Cameron. A year later the wealthy businessman declared his full confidence in Cameron. Now he seeks a new leader again.

    Clearly this man is confused, prejudiced and a poor judge of politics.


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/30/david-cameron-crushing-tory-dinosaurs-revenge-reshuffle
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,019
    edited May 2016

    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.

    He has three weeks and two days to save his legacy. If Leave wins he will be remembered as nothing but a failure. To lose a two horse race to Boris Johnson certainly takes some doing.

    Too late, his legacy (whatever it means) is trashed. According to Guido half his MPs oppose him, he's the lamest of lame ducks, the referendum is irrelevant.
    Yep, he's truly burned bridges with his own party over the conduct of the referendum campaign. With such a small majority in the Commons, and no majority at all in the Lords, he's going to struggle to pass any legislation at all and could well lose a vote of confidence if he doesn't stand down soon.

    12/1 on a General Election this year with Sky by the way. Also 12/1 on it being next year.
    Edit: yes there's the fixed term Parliament Act, but that was designed to hold a coalition together. With the HoC as it's currently constructed almost no-one is going to be able to quickly command the Confidence of the House - a Tory stitch-up for Theresa May, maybe?
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.

    He has three weeks and two days to save his legacy. If Leave wins he will be remembered as nothing but a failure. To lose a two horse race to Boris Johnson certainly takes some doing.

    The thing you need to remember about Boris is that people like him.

    They also think he's a bit of a fool.

    No, they think he's a bit of a clown. Big difference.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    In other news, if you did not get on the below yesterday, more fool you ...

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/736994994268086273

    Personally I think the leave win and turnout under 65% at 7/1 was the resl lulu
    I agree. (I think - no idea what 'resl lulu' means but am guessing it's 'bet to back')
    Typo - real lulu
    Still not sure what a lulu is.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.

    He has three weeks and two days to save his legacy. If Leave wins he will be remembered as nothing but a failure. To lose a two horse race to Boris Johnson certainly takes some doing.

    The thing you need to remember about Boris is that people like him.

    They also think he's a bit of a fool.

    No, they think he's a bit of a clown. Big difference.

    Fair enough. I'd still say losing a two horse race to a clown takes some doing. But Dave has brought it all on himself.

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JackW said:

    I've been asked by Mrs Jack W to advise this blog that Jack was taken ill yesterday morning and will not be here until further notice.

    Peter Waters routed via Dubai.

    Take care Jack!

    That ARSE needs looking after.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,519
    Boris this, EURef that. But, where do we stand on gorilla-gate?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    TOPPING said:

    Boris this, EURef that. But, where do we stand on gorilla-gate?

    Sounds to me that the gorilla was better at childcare than the parents.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,118
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Sandpit said:

    Electoral Commission orders Bristol to resend 47,000 postal votes and writes to all returning officers, as similar 'biased' guidance notes have also been seen in Kent, West Sussex, Hertfordshire and Greater Manchester.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/30/council-to-pulp-eu-referendum-postal-ballots-as-bias-row-spreads/

    The Times is reporting that Bristol are refusing to reissue ballots, but will send new ones for the final 5k.

    I can't see that being good enough. If they're wrong enough to be redesigned, they wrong enough to be reissued. The same goes for all the rest. We can't have an Austria scenario where a very tight result ends up being questioned.
    On second reading it appears to have changed from the 47,000 postal votes sent already being resent, to amending only the 5,000 votes not sent out yet.

    Disgraceful if true, as you say if they're wrong enough to need reprinting then they should reprint the whole run. A close result will almost certainly now end up in court, didn't a judge in a similar case once describe an election as being like that of 'A Banana Republic'?
    That was about fraud and outight stealing of votes rather than dodgy instructions.

    Of course, if postal voting weren't so easy this wouldn't be much of a problem.
    Yes, it was from 2005, about postal voting fraud in Birmingham.
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/apr/05/politics.localgovernment
    "Judge slates 'banana republic' postal voting system"

    Not sure how much better it has got since then, the re-registration last year should have helped though. I guess the way forward would be postal votes to be applied for for every election or referendum individually. It would be a pain for me as I'm away more than I'm in the UK, but would stop a lot of the outright fraud.

    Are there really 52,000 people in Bristol travelling or too sick to vote in person next month?
    TBH I rather enjoy going to the polling station to vote. I vote by post and on-line in other elections ...... professional organisations and so on ...... and it just doesn’t nhave the same sort of feel to it.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,196
    You could not make this up:
    Sausage-Wielding Extremists Attack Vegan Cafe In Tbilisi
    http://www.rferl.org/content/georgia-nationalists-attack-vegan-cafe-with-sausages/27766236.html
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Good Morning all.

    Following JackW's missive, I have to tell all that I have a raging flu that is now entering it's third day. :(
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,019
    Ouch at Guido's newspaper headline montage

    https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/737402807263825920
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    JackW said:

    I've been asked by Mrs Jack W to advise this blog that Jack was taken ill yesterday morning and will not be here until further notice.

    Peter Waters routed via Dubai.

    Sorry to hear that. Get well soon Jack.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,118

    TOPPING said:

    Boris this, EURef that. But, where do we stand on gorilla-gate?

    Sounds to me that the gorilla was better at childcare than the parents.
    There was a Facebook picture to that effect. Can’t find it noiw, though.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @sebwhale: Michael Gove on whether he would rather serve under Boris than Dave: "Absolutely not". Backs Cameron to remain as PM after a Brexit.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Interesting indeed...

    @FT: Hedge funds and investment banks commission private EU referendum exit polls for early bets https://t.co/w5H2xsWsey https://t.co/fuWVAqoHKC

    @drjennings: What happens if there's a run on the pound at 4pm and polls are still open? Could be interesting... https://t.co/3oKcc0mHJe
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    TOPPING said:

    Boris this, EURef that. But, where do we stand on gorilla-gate?

    Sounds to me that the gorilla was better at childcare than the parents.
    Are parents still allowed to keep toddlers on reins? That always looked like a smart idea.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    Given May's close identification with immigration, is she really a viable leadership candidate? She has clearly failed utterly.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,157
    Sandpit said:

    The front pages make grim reading for Remain but on June 24 when everybody stops fighting the realisation of what a mess we're in will hit home. This govt has stopped governing, the population is out of control, nobody is showing any interest in taking responsibility or addressing it.

    When all is said and done Cameron is trashed, he's achieved nothing.

    He has three weeks and two days to save his legacy. If Leave wins he will be remembered as nothing but a failure. To lose a two horse race to Boris Johnson certainly takes some doing.

    Too late, his legacy (whatever it means) is trashed. According to Guido half his MPs oppose him, he's the lamest of lame ducks, the referendum is irrelevant.
    Yep, he's truly burned bridges with his own party over the conduct of the referendum campaign. With such a small majority in the Commons, and no majority at all in the Lords, he's going to struggle to pass any legislation at all and could well lose a vote of confidence if he doesn't stand down soon.

    12/1 on a General Election this year with Sky by the way. Also 12/1 on it being next year.
    Edit: yes there's the fixed term Parliament Act, but that was designed to hold a coalition together. With the HoC as it's currently constructed almost no-one is going to be able to quickly command the Confidence of the House - a Tory stitch-up for Theresa May, maybe?
    I don't think the Fixed Term Parliament Act would be an issue here, the PM would say "We want new elections" and Corbyn would have to reply "Bring it on". It's only really an issue for NOM situations where the PM tries to screw his coalition partner, and instead of "Bring it on" the Leader of the Opposition could say "Actually I think I'd rather be Prime Minister instead".
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited May 2016
    If Sanders beats H. Clinton in `California, even by a whisker, she is cold meat.

    Sanders will be mush in The Donald's jaws if he is the nominee.

    So who else from the Democrats could jump in to save the wreck of a campaign? There is still five months campaigning weather between June 7th and Nov 4th.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,564
    Morning all,

    Talking US: I see Bill Kristol of Weekly Standard has kept up the tweeking of Trump over a indie candidate. It could be Romney if you read a lot (too much?) into one of his tweets over the weekend.

    @BillKristol
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,564
    Scott_P said:

    Interesting indeed...

    @FT: Hedge funds and investment banks commission private EU referendum exit polls for early bets https://t.co/w5H2xsWsey https://t.co/fuWVAqoHKC

    @drjennings: What happens if there's a run on the pound at 4pm and polls are still open? Could be interesting... https://t.co/3oKcc0mHJe

    they are wasting their money. IIRC polling industry has told the broadcasters it cant deliver an exit poll as nothing to base the background data on.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,252
    edited May 2016
    MikeK said:

    So who else from the Democrats could jump in to save the wreck of a campaign? There is still five months campaigning weather between June 7th and Nov 4th.

    The most speculated upon ticket is Biden-Warren although perhaps reversing those names would be better.

    On the Republican/Independent side, the chatter seems to be that the plan is/was a Romney-Kasich ticket.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    TOPPING said:

    Boris this, EURef that. But, where do we stand on gorilla-gate?

    Sounds to me that the gorilla was better at childcare than the parents.
    The following is doing the rounds on Facebook this morning:

    Police are investigating the parents of the 4 year old child who fell into the gorilla enclosure in a Cincinatti Zoo which resulted in Zoo officials killing the gorilla. Gonna do the parents for neglect.

    Funny...I recall 2 parents who left their children alone in a hotel room in Portugal which resulted in a child going missing and they weren't done for neglect.
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    Very best wishes to JackW.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    TOPPING said:

    Boris this, EURef that. But, where do we stand on gorilla-gate?

    Sounds to me that the gorilla was better at childcare than the parents.
    There was a Facebook picture to that effect. Can’t find it noiw, though.
    The comments on this one are instructive: https://m.facebook.com/cincinnatizoo/photos/a.96076385478.116723.61800120478/10154077695885479/?type=3&theater
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Given May's close identification with immigration, is she really a viable leadership candidate? She has clearly failed utterly.

    The border force is a real problem. Albanians rocking up in Rye harbour in the small hours has changed the game. Reports on Sky that French skippers are making £1k per person - rubber dingies towed halfway in Channel and left to finish under own power. Apparently such craft can only manage an hour or two before taking on water.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,019
    edited May 2016
    Okay. Betfair turnout market: 5% increments, back prices.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.122981377

    6.60 for 45-50%
    3.65 for 50-55%
    3.00 for 55-60%
    6.20 for 60-65%
    25.0 for 65-70%
    48.0 for over 70%

    Value in the higher turnouts? Surely it will be 60% or more after another three weeks of this, or by then will people be interested only in the football?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,564
    MikeK said:

    If Sanders beats H. Clinton in `California, even by a whisker, she is cold meat.

    Sanders will be mush in The Donald's jaws if he is the nominee.

    So who else from the Democrats could jump in to save the wreck of a campaign? There is still five months campaigning weather between June 7th and Nov 4th.

    no one. hillary will be the candidate unless the fbi move in.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,027
    Good morning, everyone.

    Best wishes to Mr. W. With luck, he'll be back in rude health soon.

    Mr. K, hope your flu abates presently.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    TOPPING said:

    Boris this, EURef that. But, where do we stand on gorilla-gate?

    Sounds to me that the gorilla was better at childcare than the parents.
    The following is doing the rounds on Facebook this morning:

    Police are investigating the parents of the 4 year old child who fell into the gorilla enclosure in a Cincinatti Zoo which resulted in Zoo officials killing the gorilla. Gonna do the parents for neglect.

    Funny...I recall 2 parents who left their children alone in a hotel room in Portugal which resulted in a child going missing and they weren't done for neglect.


    I can see circumstances in which we'd have let our kids run around at a zoo. In fact, I am sure we did. There is no way on God's earth we'd have left them in a house alone to go off and have a meal - even if it only involved a 50 yard journey. The McCanns made a terrible mistake. One they have to live with every day of their lives. There is no punishment they could suffer that is worse than what they have been through. And the fact they did what they did does not excuse the Portuguese police's mistakes or the lack of security at the resort.

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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    PlatoSaid said:

    Given May's close identification with immigration, is she really a viable leadership candidate? She has clearly failed utterly.

    The border force is a real problem. Albanians rocking up in Rye harbour in the small hours has changed the game. Reports on Sky that French skippers are making £1k per person - rubber dingies towed halfway in Channel and left to finish under own power. Apparently such craft can only manage an hour or two before taking on water.
    But May has been failing for years. It's not a recent phenomoenon
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    If you're interested, Gove on Sky at 0815. He's also on GMB.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I trust that those who poured scorn on me when I suggested a few months ago that migrants could try to make their way across the Channel in makeshift boats are now going to apologise to me?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    edited May 2016

    PlatoSaid said:

    Given May's close identification with immigration, is she really a viable leadership candidate? She has clearly failed utterly.

    The border force is a real problem. Albanians rocking up in Rye harbour in the small hours has changed the game. Reports on Sky that French skippers are making £1k per person - rubber dingies towed halfway in Channel and left to finish under own power. Apparently such craft can only manage an hour or two before taking on water.
    But May has been failing for years. It's not a recent phenomoenon

    And Tory Leavers were very happy to vote with May and Dave in favour of big cuts to the Royal Navy and the coastguard service.

  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    Given May's close identification with immigration, is she really a viable leadership candidate? She has clearly failed utterly.

    The border force is a real problem. Albanians rocking up in Rye harbour in the small hours has changed the game. Reports on Sky that French skippers are making £1k per person - rubber dingies towed halfway in Channel and left to finish under own power. Apparently such craft can only manage an hour or two before taking on water.
    But May has been failing for years. It's not a recent phenomoenon
    She has, I've generally given her a pass as HO is total hospital pass of a job - and courts have thwarted her.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Sandpit said:

    Okay. Betfair turnout market: 5% increments, back prices.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.122981377

    6.60 for 45-50%
    3.65 for 50-55%
    3.00 for 55-60%
    6.20 for 60-65%
    25.0 for 65-70%
    48.0 for over 70%

    Value in the higher turnouts? Surely it will be 60% or more after another three weeks of this, or by then will people be interested only in the football?

    Those are not the turnout odds that I see. Do you have the Remain vote band odds there perhaps?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    I trust that those who poured scorn on me when I suggested a few months ago that migrants could try to make their way across the Channel in makeshift boats are now going to apologise to me?

    Government cuts - supported by Boris, Priti, Michael & Co - have made our coastline particularly vulnerable.

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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,352
    The Gorilla fiasco is leading to predictable reactions. Social media at its worst. Would those people calling for sanctions against the zoo feel the same if it was their son in the enclosure?

    And knowing a tranquiliser dart won't act immediately, but would certainly antagonise the animal, what other option did the zoo have? Congratulations to the sharpshooter.

    Yes, the parents bear some responsibility, but the child needed to be saved. The zoo made the only decision possible.

    Best wishes to Messrs W and K.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,019

    PlatoSaid said:

    Given May's close identification with immigration, is she really a viable leadership candidate? She has clearly failed utterly.

    The border force is a real problem. Albanians rocking up in Rye harbour in the small hours has changed the game. Reports on Sky that French skippers are making £1k per person - rubber dingies towed halfway in Channel and left to finish under own power. Apparently such craft can only manage an hour or two before taking on water.
    But May has been failing for years. It's not a recent phenomoenon

    And Tory Leavers were very happy to vote with May and Dave in favour of big cuts to the Royal Navy and the coastguard service.

    Did they not have their hands tied somewhat by Brown's contract for two planeless carriers to be built in his own constituency?

    Of all the messes that were left behind by the outgoing government in 2010, the military was probably the worst.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,564
    Sandpit said:

    Okay. Betfair turnout market: 5% increments, back prices.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.122981377

    6.60 for 45-50%
    3.65 for 50-55%
    3.00 for 55-60%
    6.20 for 60-65%
    25.0 for 65-70%
    48.0 for over 70%

    Value in the higher turnouts? Surely it will be 60% or more after another three weeks of this, or by then will people be interested only in the football?

    I think this is actually a market for Remains %.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,019
    Wanderer said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay. Betfair turnout market: 5% increments, back prices.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.122981377

    6.60 for 45-50%
    3.65 for 50-55%
    3.00 for 55-60%
    6.20 for 60-65%
    25.0 for 65-70%
    48.0 for over 70%

    Value in the higher turnouts? Surely it will be 60% or more after another three weeks of this, or by then will people be interested only in the football?

    Those are not the turnout odds that I see. Do you have the Remain vote band odds there perhaps?
    Oh Crap. Mods please delete my post!
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    Sandpit said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Given May's close identification with immigration, is she really a viable leadership candidate? She has clearly failed utterly.

    The border force is a real problem. Albanians rocking up in Rye harbour in the small hours has changed the game. Reports on Sky that French skippers are making £1k per person - rubber dingies towed halfway in Channel and left to finish under own power. Apparently such craft can only manage an hour or two before taking on water.
    But May has been failing for years. It's not a recent phenomoenon

    And Tory Leavers were very happy to vote with May and Dave in favour of big cuts to the Royal Navy and the coastguard service.

    Did they not have their hands tied somewhat by Brown's contract for two planeless carriers to be built in his own constituency?

    Of all the messes that were left behind by the outgoing government in 2010, the military was probably the worst.

    They made choices. And their choice was to spend less on the navy and the coastguard than Labour did.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,026
    CD13 said:

    The Gorilla fiasco is leading to predictable reactions. Social media at its worst. Would those people calling for sanctions against the zoo feel the same if it was their son in the enclosure?

    And knowing a tranquiliser dart won't act immediately, but would certainly antagonise the animal, what other option did the zoo have? Congratulations to the sharpshooter.

    Yes, the parents bear some responsibility, but the child needed to be saved. The zoo made the only decision possible.

    Best wishes to Messrs W and K.

    Personally I'm a bigger fan of gorillas than children :(
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,027
    Mr. CD13, plus the gorilla could've collapsed onto the child.

    I agree. It's sad, but was necessary.

    Mr. Observer, I do wonder about that. If more money gets poured in, and boats and crews supplied, all that will happen is the taxi service to Britain will be more efficient.

    Cameron needs to get a grip on this, or people will think that inside the EU we don't have a secure border. [Of course, we might not outside the EU, but that's a maybe whereas the insecurity within will be certain].
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    edited May 2016
    MikeK said:

    If Sanders beats H. Clinton in `California, even by a whisker, she is cold meat.

    Sanders will be mush in The Donald's jaws if he is the nominee.

    So who else from the Democrats could jump in to save the wreck of a campaign? There is still five months campaigning weather between June 7th and Nov 4th.

    Hillary will still have the delegates to win even if she loses California and I still think she will scrape a win in the state. Polling actually suggests Sanders would beat Trump by more than Hillary would, Sanders would be able to run more effectively against Wall Street and the establishment than she would and that would blunt the appeal of Trump's populism, it would be a battle over who Americans hate more, Wall Street and billionaires or Mexican migrants, Muslims and China
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Sandpit said:

    Wanderer said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay. Betfair turnout market: 5% increments, back prices.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.122981377

    6.60 for 45-50%
    3.65 for 50-55%
    3.00 for 55-60%
    6.20 for 60-65%
    25.0 for 65-70%
    48.0 for over 70%

    Value in the higher turnouts? Surely it will be 60% or more after another three weeks of this, or by then will people be interested only in the football?

    Those are not the turnout odds that I see. Do you have the Remain vote band odds there perhaps?
    Oh Crap. Mods please delete my post!
    I was briefly very excited by 60-65 at 6.2 :)
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    You can buy turnout on Sporting Index at 63.5 (this has been rising over the last couple of months). It's probably still a buy, but of course you risk substantial losses if turnout is on the low side after all.

    I bought at 62 and I'm very comfortable with that.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    CD13 said:

    The Gorilla fiasco is leading to predictable reactions. Social media at its worst. Would those people calling for sanctions against the zoo feel the same if it was their son in the enclosure?

    And knowing a tranquiliser dart won't act immediately, but would certainly antagonise the animal, what other option did the zoo have? Congratulations to the sharpshooter.

    Yes, the parents bear some responsibility, but the child needed to be saved. The zoo made the only decision possible.

    Best wishes to Messrs W and K.

    Some animal lovers are even stranger than me. A PETA lady on Twitter said owners should give their pets gender neutral names so they don't feel labelled - "because they know".

    I get uncomfortable around people who calls their pets human names. I confess to calling a cat Richard Parker, but that was making a whole other point.
This discussion has been closed.