Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Aren't you a very wet Tory, though?
Yes, and I rejected Blair and what he represented - I've just got him again wearing a blue tie instead. My principles haven't changed.
What is it the government is doing that you oppose?
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Aren't you a very wet Tory, though?
Yes, and I rejected Blair and what he represented - I've just got him again wearing a blue tie instead. My principles haven't changed.
What is it the government is doing that you oppose?
What is the government actually doing other than backtracking on everything...
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
About what I'd have expected, really - there's a 16% Tory vote in the ward, of which say half might be for Leave, some left-wing anti-TTIP people and a few random variations. I'd guess that there's a 20% Remain vote in deepest Surrey...
There is much more than 20% Remain in deepest Surrey. More like 45%. Lots of AB voters.
Yes. The reverse to what Nick P is experiencing would be in places like Havering, Thanet, or Canvey Island.
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
I find a figure of 20% for LEAVE in Islington encouraging for LEAVE.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Alas, you did. Miss P. , but maybe you were not paying attention: Cameron said he was the "True heir to Blair". No fault on your behalf I am sure because Cameron says so many things that are mutually contradictory that working out what he actually thinks let alone will do, given the chance, cannot be more than a guessing game.
Mr L
last week we had our village assembly ( elected reps meet the community ) and the hot topic was where's our high speed broadband ? ( it should have been in 3 years ago ).
The parish councillor, the district councillor and the county councillor ( all Conservative ) sang in unison that EU clearance was one of the main factors causing a delay. Next day up pops Osborne as chief ramper to the masses to say leaving the EU wouldn't speed up broadband installation in rural areas. So one of the bunch of Tories has to be lying to our faces.
I live 10 miles south of the UKs second largest conurbation and we are in the dark ages. I had better service last week in a small village in the highlands then in posh commuter belt Warwickshire.
I concluded we should just shoot all the useless Tories and elect the SNP if we want broadband round here and yes I did just write that :-)
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
About what I'd have expected, really - there's a 16% Tory vote in the ward, of which say half might be for Leave, some left-wing anti-TTIP people and a few random variations. I'd guess that there's a 20% Remain vote in deepest Surrey...
Probably much higher than 20% remain in Surrey- the E.U favours the wealthy. If Nick is saying Leave is getting 20% in Islington it's probably more like 40% for leave.
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
About what I'd have expected, really - there's a 16% Tory vote in the ward, of which say half might be for Leave, some left-wing anti-TTIP people and a few random variations. I'd guess that there's a 20% Remain vote in deepest Surrey...
There is much more than 20% Remain in deepest Surrey. More like 45%. Lots of AB voters.
Yes. The reverse to what Nick P is experiencing would be in places like Havering, Thanet, or Canvey Island.
St George's ward is very mixed socially. Some very wealthy folk (Damien Lewis etc) and a few estates. Given the engagement, I suspect Nick and co may have been knocking on the house doors, not the flat ones.
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
I find a figure of 20% for LEAVE in Islington encouraging for LEAVE.
I wouldn't advise taking my or anyone else's canvass reports too seriously - like Ashcroft focus groups. they're mainly posted for flavour, and are a biased subsample with interviewer effects. But the level of interest (on both sides) and shortage of undecideds did surprise me.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Alas, you did. Miss P. , but maybe you were not paying attention: Cameron said he was the "True heir to Blair". No fault on your behalf I am sure because Cameron says so many things that are mutually contradictory that working out what he actually thinks let alone will do, given the chance, cannot be more than a guessing game.
Mr L
last week we had our village assembly ( elected reps meet the community ) and the hot topic was where's our high speed broadband ? ( it should have been in 3 years ago ).
The parish councillor, the district councillor and the county councillor all sang in unison that EU clearance was one of the main factors causing a delay. Next day up pops Osborne as chief ramper to the masses to say leaving the EU wouldn't speed up broadband installation in rural areas. So one of the bunch of Tories has to be lying to our faces.
I live 10 miles south of the UKs second largest conurbation and we are in the dark ages. I had better service last week in a small village in the highlands then in posh commuter belt Warwickshire.
I concluded we should just shoot all the useless Tories and elect the SNP if we want broadband round here and yes I did just write that :-)
Our main barrier to high speed broadband is that part of our community can get, allegedly, get it, via a small provider. So the rest of us can’t. Nothing to do with the EU, more to do with Central Govt incompetence.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Aren't you a very wet Tory, though?
Yes, and I rejected Blair and what he represented - I've just got him again wearing a blue tie instead. My principles haven't changed.
What is it the government is doing that you oppose?
What is the government actually doing other than backtracking on everything...
It's following an economic and fiscal policy predicated on high levels of immigration and EU membership. This was hardly a secret.
Mr. F, accepting the lack of choice, Cameron's still mishandled it.
It seems likely we'll have a recession at some point between now and 2020. If Leave win, this will be blamed on Leave. Indeed, any difficulty that arises will be blamed on Leave. If Remain win, then Leave supporters will say " told you so", every time the EU does something we don't like. UKIP will keep chipping away at Conservative support. Some Conservatives who reluctantly voted Remain will feel like Labour supporters who reluctantly backed Tony Blair over Iraq.
Agreed. One way REMAIN could lower the problems inside the Conservative party is if LEAVErs take over many of the key roles starting with the PM. But since Cameron and Osborne no longer care for the party I cannot see sense prevailing.
If Remain win then we will have a Remain PM it is as simple as that. If Leave want a Leave backing PM they need to win the referendum
Not how it may work out inside the party. 2/3 of members are for LEAVE and they will decide.
Evidence for that statement please.
Many ConHome surveys. Have you missed them?
So no evidence. ConHome surveys are surveys of ContinuityIDS members, not party members.
Clearly you have not followed the past evidence such as the last leadership election result and having the guidance of a Yougov part owner in the checks made.
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
I find a figure of 20% for LEAVE in Islington encouraging for LEAVE.
I wouldn't advise taking my or anyone else's canvass reports too seriously - like Ashcroft focus groups. they're mainly posted for flavour, and are a biased subsample with interviewer effects. But the level of interest (on both sides) and shortage of undecideds did surprise me.
Certainly the presence of posters is a surprise. Not a sign of a one in my part of the East Midlands. Although I shall be putting my own 'Remain' one up later next week.
I'm a Leaver (as is Richard Tyndall), and we will both say that there is no realistic possibility than Turkey will join the EU given: (a) the French requirement to have a referendum, (b) Greece and Cyprus, and (c) that Turkey will not meet any of the accession criteria.
And this is why leave will lose. The honesty of your answer and also it's accuracy blows Penny Mordaunt out of the water and again shows how leave are in chaos, but that was to be expected when there are so many competing visions within leave, thereby diluting the credibility of the proposition to leave the EU
Depends how you define the question.
Do we (the British electorate who are voting next month) have a veto? No we do not. Does the British government with a stated policy of accepting Turkey as soon as possible have a veto? Yes.
Is this the last chance we (as the British electorate) have to stop Turkish membership? Almost certainly yes.
With respect that is just nonsense. If and when Turkey are in a position to meet membership rules not only David Cameron, but most of today's politicians will have left office, and the government of the day will have the right to veto or otherwise Turkey's membersghip
--------------------------------
Good post !
Alan, impossible, Carlotta keeps telling me Scotland is falling to bits, she gets CCHQ reports sent to her on her tax exile island to prove it.
OOOPs no idea what happened there, it is to another post.
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
I find a figure of 20% for LEAVE in Islington encouraging for LEAVE.
I wouldn't advise taking my or anyone else's canvass reports too seriously - like Ashcroft focus groups. they're mainly posted for flavour, and are a biased subsample with interviewer effects. But the level of interest (on both sides) and shortage of undecideds did surprise me.
You don’t wear a Remain rosette while canvassing, do you?
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
About what I'd have expected, really - there's a 16% Tory vote in the ward, of which say half might be for Leave, some left-wing anti-TTIP people and a few random variations. I'd guess that there's a 20% Remain vote in deepest Surrey...
You surprise me, Nick. I would have thought that the Tory vote in a place like Islington would lean quite heavily to Remain.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Alas, you did. Miss P. , but maybe you were not paying attention: Cameron said he was the "True heir to Blair". No fault on your behalf I am sure because Cameron says so many things that are mutually contradictory that working out what he actually thinks let alone will do, given the chance, cannot be more than a guessing game.
Mr L
last week we had our village assembly ( elected reps meet the community ) and the hot topic was where's our high speed broadband ? ( it should have been in 3 years ago ).
The parish councillor, the district councillor and the county councillor ( all Conservative ) sang in unison that EU clearance was one of the main factors causing a delay. Next day up pops Osborne as chief ramper to the masses to say leaving the EU wouldn't speed up broadband installation in rural areas. So one of the bunch of Tories has to be lying to our faces.
I live 10 miles south of the UKs second largest conurbation and we are in the dark ages. I had better service last week in a small village in the highlands then in posh commuter belt Warwickshire.
I concluded we should just shoot all the useless Tories and elect the SNP if we want broadband round here and yes I did just write that :-)
Alan, impossible, Carlotta keeps telling me Scotland is falling to bits, she gets CCHQ reports sent to her on her tax exile island to prove it.
Interesting, too much money around. "as rate cuts have now outpaced rate rises for seven consecutive months, according to new data." "One of the major reasons that rates have fallen so drastically is that providers have an overabundance of cash. Banks and building societies balance their savings book against their lending book, with returns from lending funding the rates paid to savers." http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/05/22/the-next-recession/#vanilla-comments
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Alas, you did. Miss P. , but maybe you were not paying attention: Cameron said he was the "True heir to Blair". No fault on your behalf I am sure because Cameron says so many things that are mutually contradictory that working out what he actually thinks let alone will do, given the chance, cannot be more than a guessing game.
Mr L
last week we had our vi all the useless Tories and elect the SNP if we want broadband round here and yes I did just write that :-)
Our main barrier to high speed broadband is that part of our community can get, allegedly, get it, via a small provider. So the rest of us can’t. Nothing to do with the EU, more to do with Central Govt incompetence.
Certainly HMG has just fkd it up by giving Openreach a monopoly and no major penalties for delays. The EU argument is apparently that state subsidy is involved in each area and needs approval.
I somehow cant see that being a barrier in France or Germany. I often get better mobile reception at the top of the Alps than in my own village.
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
I find a figure of 20% for LEAVE in Islington encouraging for LEAVE.
I wouldn't advise taking my or anyone else's canvass reports too seriously - like Ashcroft focus groups. they're mainly posted for flavour, and are a biased subsample with interviewer effects. But the level of interest (on both sides) and shortage of undecideds did surprise me.
Certainly the presence of posters is a surprise. Not a sign of a one in my part of the East Midlands. Although I shall be putting my own 'Remain' one up later next week.
Absolutely no sign of a referendum campaign in Leamington, though a couple of farmers have put big Leave banners up in their fields just outside the town. Same ones had Tory banners last year for the GE.
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
About what I'd have expected, really - there's a 16% Tory vote in the ward, of which say half might be for Leave, some left-wing anti-TTIP people and a few random variations. I'd guess that there's a 20% Remain vote in deepest Surrey...
Probably much higher than 20% remain in Surrey- the E.U favours the wealthy. If Nick is saying Leave is getting 20% in Islington it's probably more like 40% for leave.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Aren't you a very wet Tory, though?
Yes, and I rejected Blair and what he represented - I've just got him again wearing a blue tie instead. My principles haven't changed.
What is it the government is doing that you oppose?
What is the government actually doing other than backtracking on everything...
Someone said the other day, that half of what HMG is doing wasn't in the manifesto - and the other half isn't what we were promised. Sounds fair to me.
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
About what I'd have expected, really - there's a 16% Tory vote in the ward, of which say half might be for Leave, some left-wing anti-TTIP people and a few random variations. I'd guess that there's a 20% Remain vote in deepest Surrey...
Probably much higher than 20% remain in Surrey- the E.U favours the wealthy. If Nick is saying Leave is getting 20% in Islington it's probably more like 40% for leave.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Aren't you a very wet Tory, though?
Yes, and I rejected Blair and what he represented - I've just got him again wearing a blue tie instead. My principles haven't changed.
You have Blair in a blue tie and Brown in a blue tie.
"What is it the government is doing that you oppose?"
That seems an unfair question to ask as it's not doing anything at all. Unless you go count going around pissing off its own supporters. I'd be happy to see it tear itself apart if it wasn't for the threat of Jezza lurking in the background.
I used to think that all the student Trots from the late sixties had grown up or died out but it appears our current students are taking over the mantle from them.
"What is it the government is doing that you oppose?"
That seems an unfair question to ask as it's not doing anything at all. Unless you go count going around pissing off its own supporters. I'd be happy to see it tear itself apart if it wasn't for the threat of Jezza lurking in the background.
I used to think that all the student Trots from the late sixties had grown up or died out but it appears our current students are taking over the mantle from them.
Jezzas meant to scare you. Call their bluff and vote for what you want not what you're afraid of.
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
I find a figure of 20% for LEAVE in Islington encouraging for LEAVE.
Remember "the tories are giving up I'm going to win easily". lol.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Aren't you a very wet Tory, though?
Yes. Except she hates foreigners.
Have you changed your position on open borders to everyone in the world yet ?
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
About what I'd have expected, really - there's a 16% Tory vote in the ward, of which say half might be for Leave, some left-wing anti-TTIP people and a few random variations. I'd guess that there's a 20% Remain vote in deepest Surrey...
Probably much higher than 20% remain in Surrey- the E.U favours the wealthy. If Nick is saying Leave is getting 20% in Islington it's probably more like 40% for leave.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
About what I'd have expected, really - there's a 16% Tory vote in the ward, of which say half might be for Leave, some left-wing anti-TTIP people and a few random variations. I'd guess that there's a 20% Remain vote in deepest Surrey...
Probably much higher than 20% remain in Surrey- the E.U favours the wealthy. If Nick is saying Leave is getting 20% in Islington it's probably more like 40% for leave.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Aren't you a very wet Tory, though?
Yes. Except she hates foreigners.
Have you changed your position on open borders to everyone in the world yet ?
Certainly not. Open borders in all countries as they were until just 100 years ago. I don't think the Brits faced any immigration controls when we went to North America and Australasia.
Oh, I will, but my success rate is on a par with Mr Observer's. I voted Labour when Foot was in charge. I voted LD when the hero of Chilcot came to power, and I voted Ukip at the last GE when David "you didn't take me seriously when I said I meant what I said no ifs and no buts, did you?" Cameron was returned.
I may vote Green next time just to give them the kiss of death.
Mr. F, accepting the lack of choice, Cameron's still mishandled it.
It seems likely we'll have a recession at some point between now and 2020. If Leave win, this will be blamed on Leave. Indeed, any difficulty that arises will be blamed on Leave. If Remain win, then Leave supporters will say " told you so", every time the EU does something we don't like. UKIP will keep chipping away at Conservative support. Some Conservatives who reluctantly voted Remain will feel like Labour supporters who reluctantly backed Tony Blair over Iraq.
Agreed. One way REMAIN could lower the problems inside the Conservative party is if LEAVErs take over many of the key roles starting with the PM. But since Cameron and Osborne no longer care for the party I cannot see sense prevailing.
If Remain win then we will have a Remain PM it is as simple as that. If Leave want a Leave backing PM they need to win the referendum
Not how it may work out inside the party. 2/3 of members are for LEAVE and they will decide.
Evidence for that statement please.
Many ConHome surveys. Have you missed them?
So no evidence. ConHome surveys are surveys of ContinuityIDS members, not party members.
Clearly you have not followed the past evidence such as the last leadership election result and having the guidance of a Yougov part owner in the checks made.
So your so called evidence is a sample of one from over a decade ago and the involvement of a part owner of a proper polling company that spectacularly called the General Election very wrong?
Interest at general election levels equates to around 65%, which is the 10/10 to vote mark being self certified in many of the opinion polls.
Who wins at 10/10 turnout according to the polls? I'm I right in saying Leave has a lead on that turnout? Also what were the polls predicting at the GE at 10/10 turnout?
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
About what I'd have expected, really - there's a 16% Tory vote in the ward, of which say half might be for Leave, some left-wing anti-TTIP people and a few random variations. I'd guess that there's a 20% Remain vote in deepest Surrey...
Probably much higher than 20% remain in Surrey- the E.U favours the wealthy. If Nick is saying Leave is getting 20% in Islington it's probably more like 40% for leave.
That ruck in the Turkish parliament is quite something, isn't it? Was it the Kurdish MPs complaining about their rights being taken away?
Coming soon!
The fact that Kurdish MPs rights are infringed is itself a bar to Turkish membership of the EU.
So: Not coming here soon!
I don't think only the Kurdish MPs immunity is being taken away. It affects all MPs.
By the way, do our MPs have immunity from prosecution ? Chris Huhne would have been better of in Turkey !
ROFL
right so you think an Erdogan MP is just as likely to be prosecuted as a Kurdish one ?
I am talking about the law. Do blacks in the US have the same chance of getting killed by policemen as whites ? The law is still the same.
Oh good. On tht basis of course no-one in the States should protest about it's uneven application.
We can trust good old Mr Erdogan to apply the law as it is meant to be applied by kicking the shit out of the Kurds.
So your position is that Turkish MPs should remain above the law as they were. No matter what they do, they cannot be prosecuted. That is your position, Great !
Mr. F, accepting the lack of choice, Cameron's still mishandled it.
It seems likely we'll have a recession at some point between now and 2020. If Leave win, this will be blamed on Leave. Indeed, any difficulty that arises will be blamed on Leave. If Remain win, then Leave supporters will say " told you so", every time the EU does something we don't like. UKIP will keep chipping away at Conservative support. Some Conservatives who reluctantly voted Remain will feel like Labour supporters who reluctantly backed Tony Blair over Iraq.
Agreed. One way REMAIN could lower the problems inside the Conservative party is if LEAVErs take over many of the key roles starting with the PM. But since Cameron and Osborne no longer care for the party I cannot see sense prevailing.
If Remain win then we will have a Remain PM it is as simple as that. If Leave want a Leave backing PM they need to win the referendum
Not how it may work out inside the party. 2/3 of members are for LEAVE and they will decide.
Evidence for that statement please.
Many ConHome surveys. Have you missed them?
So no evidence. ConHome surveys are surveys of ContinuityIDS members, not party members.
Clearly you have not followed the past evidence such as the last leadership election result and having the guidance of a Yougov part owner in the checks made.
So your so called evidence is a sample of one from over a decade ago and the involvement of a part owner of a proper polling company that spectacularly called the General Election very wrong?
and your evidence is that you know eff all about the party and previous samples?
Half a dozen of us canvassing Corbyn heartland (St George's Ward Islington) for Remain this morning. About 75% Remain, 20% Leave, 5% unsure. Main points of interest were that interest is very high - at General Election levels, people anxiously checking the register, where they'll be on the day, etc., and there are almost no "don't knows". Lots of Remain posters but the Leave people were very definite too.
20% Leave in Islington? Golly.
About what I'd have expected, really - there's a 16% Tory vote in the ward, of which say half might be for Leave, some left-wing anti-TTIP people and a few random variations. I'd guess that there's a 20% Remain vote in deepest Surrey...
Probably much higher than 20% remain in Surrey- the E.U favours the wealthy. If Nick is saying Leave is getting 20% in Islington it's probably more like 40% for leave.
That ruck in the Turkish parliament is quite something, isn't it? Was it the Kurdish MPs complaining about their rights being taken away?
Coming soon!
The fact that Kurdish MPs rights are infringed is itself a bar to Turkish membership of the EU.
So: Not coming here soon!
I don't think only the Kurdish MPs immunity is being taken away. It affects all MPs.
By the way, do our MPs have immunity from prosecution ? Chris Huhne would have been better of in Turkey !
ROFL
right so you think an Erdogan MP is just as likely to be prosecuted as a Kurdish one ?
I am talking about the law. Do blacks in the US have the same chance of getting killed by policemen as whites ? The law is still the same.
Oh good. On tht basis of course no-one in the States should protest about it's uneven application.
We can trust good old Mr Erdogan to apply the law as it is meant to be applied by kicking the shit out of the Kurds.
So your position is that Turkish MPs should remain above the law as they were. No matter what they do, they cannot be prosecuted. That is your position, Great !
My position is that until I believe that the law will be fairly applied in Turkey I think this is simply Erdogan opening the door to getting rid of his opponents.
There are more than enough questions to be answered by Erdogan's crew on corruption, I think the chances any of them will be prosecuted are zero.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Aren't you a very wet Tory, though?
Yes. Except she hates foreigners.
Have you changed your position on open borders to everyone in the world yet ?
Certainly not. Open borders in all countries as they were until just 100 years ago. I don't think the Brits faced any immigration controls when we went to North America and Australasia.
Open borders in all countries as they were until just 100 years ago - got to Question that.
Maybe those in charge of those large commonwealth countries wanted Brit immigration then with the size but want you want for this small country is Quite mad.
The main thing I'm taking out of @NickPalmer's account of canvassing is that turnout may possibly surprise on the high side.
It really depends on where in the ward they were canvassing. If it was in the estates then you will be right. If it was the very affluent roads just off Tufnell Psrk Road then they were mainly speaking to highly engaged, wealthy ABs. That said, I suspect London may be one of the higher turnout areas of the country on 23rd June.
Interest at general election levels equates to around 65%, which is the 10/10 to vote mark being self certified in many of the opinion polls.
Who wins at 10/10 turnout according to the polls? I'm I right in saying Leave has a lead on that turnout? Also what were the polls predicting at the GE at 10/10 turnout?
The 10/10 are certainly more favourable for leave than some of the headline numbers.
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Mr. F, accepting the lack of choice, Cameron's still mishandled it.
It seems likely we'll have a recession at some point between now and 2020. If Leave win, this will be blamed on Leave. Indeed, any difficulty that arises will be blamed on Leave. If Remain win, then Leave supporters will say " told you so", every time the EU does something we don't like. UKIP will keep chipping away at Conservative support. Some Conservatives who reluctantly voted Remain will feel like Labour supporters who reluctantly backed Tony Blair over Iraq.
Agreed. One way REMAIN could lower the problems inside the Conservative party is if LEAVErs take over many of the key roles starting with the PM. But since Cameron and Osborne no longer care for the party I cannot see sense prevailing.
If Remain win then we will have a Remain PM it is as simple as that. If Leave want a Leave backing PM they need to win the referendum
Not how it may work out inside the party. 2/3 of members are for LEAVE and they will decide.
Evidence for that statement please.
Many ConHome surveys. Have you missed them?
So no evidence. ConHome surveys are surveys of ContinuityIDS members, not party members.
Clearly you have not followed the past evidence such as the last leadership election result and having the guidance of a Yougov part owner in the checks made.
So your so called evidence is a sample of one from over a decade ago and the involvement of a part owner of a proper polling company that spectacularly called the General Election very wrong?
and your evidence is that you know eff all about the party and previous samples?
I know about the party, I am a member of the party, I am not a member of ConHome. ConHome is not the party.
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
He doesn't appear to hate Johnny Foreigner enough for some people
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Blair won 3 elections for Labour and is a pariah.
Yes, but there was the Iraq war and he was pursuing pretty much Tory policies. So you can see why Labour members dislike him. What's the Tory reason for disliking Cameron, is it just Europe or is there something else?
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
He doesn't appear to hate Johnny Foreigner enough for some people
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Blair won 3 elections for Labour and is a pariah.
And Labour are idiots for making him a pariah.
let's see how that goes after Chilcott.
I'm not convinced Chilcott is going to change anybody's minds at all.
Whether Blair was right or wrong on Iraq, to dismiss him entirely is foolhardy of Labour.
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Blair won 3 elections for Labour and is a pariah.
Yes, but there was the Iraq war and he was pursuing pretty much Tory policies. So you can see why Labour members dislike him. What's the Tory reason for disliking Cameron, is it just Europe or is there something else?
oddly I'd say it was the mirror image of Blair.
The party supporters didn't elect him to implement the other sides policies.
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Blair won 3 elections for Labour and is a pariah.
And Labour are idiots for making him a pariah.
let's see how that goes after Chilcott.
I'm not convinced Chilcott is going to change anybody's minds at all.
Whether Blair was right or wrong on Iraq, to dismiss him entirely is foolhardy of Labour.
I'm struggling to see atm where they could use him in a positive role tbh.
His reputation is shot - spin, lies, self enrichment, Murdoch, middle east wars, slipppery etc.
He;s from another era when voters were naive and trusting. Today when they're suspicious, under pressure and disgruntled he's best left in the background.
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Blair won 3 elections for Labour and is a pariah.
Yes, but there was the Iraq war and he was pursuing pretty much Tory policies. So you can see why Labour members dislike him. What's the Tory reason for disliking Cameron, is it just Europe or is there something else?
Cameron is continuity Blair.
Which is why Conservative supporters say "why do Labour supporters hate Blair" and why Labour supporters say "why do Conservative supporters hate Cameron".
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Blair won 3 elections for Labour and is a pariah.
And Labour are idiots for making him a pariah.
let's see how that goes after Chilcott.
And handing back a huge chunk of rebate, immigration, political correctness, not standing up to Brown, Iraq... I'm sure we can add to his massive mill-stone legacy for us today.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Nor do I, Mr. C., and why should we since what he says now is a direct contradiction of what he said a year or two back. Then he said the UK could thrive outside the EU now he says leaving would mean armageddon. How can anyone trust such a man?
Me neither. I didn't vote for Tony Mk II. Yet, I've got it.
Alas, you did. Miss P. , but maybe you were not paying attention: Cameron said he was the "True heir to Blair". No fault on your behalf I am sure because Cameron says so many things that are mutually contradictory that working out what he actually thinks let alone will do, given the chance, cannot be more than a guessing game.
Mr L
last week we had our vi all the useless Tories and elect the SNP if we want broadband round here and yes I did just write that :-)
Our main barrier to high speed broadband is that part of our community can get, allegedly, get it, via a small provider. So the rest of us can’t. Nothing to do with the EU, more to do with Central Govt incompetence.
Certainly HMG has just fkd it up by giving Openreach a monopoly and no major penalties for delays. The EU argument is apparently that state subsidy is involved in each area and needs approval.
I somehow cant see that being a barrier in France or Germany. I often get better mobile reception at the top of the Alps than in my own village.
Of course mobile (with many competing suppliers) is not the same a broadband. In 1985 in Stuttgart they were laying down cable all over the city, quite a bit ahead of the UK.
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Blair won 3 elections for Labour and is a pariah.
Yes, but there was the Iraq war and he was pursuing pretty much Tory policies. So you can see why Labour members dislike him. What's the Tory reason for disliking Cameron, is it just Europe or is there something else?
oddly I'd say it was the mirror image of Blair.
The party supporters didn't elect him to implement the other sides policies.
There's not really any difference in the political philosophies of Blair and Cameron - 'internationalism', Middle Eastern warmongering, nanny stateism, metropolitanism, open door immigration, the corporate state / crony capitalism and an economic policy based upon rising house prices and government debt fuelled welfare consumerism.
Its the 'gentleman in Whitehall / City knows best' philosophy.
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Blair won 3 elections for Labour and is a pariah.
Yes, but there was the Iraq war and he was pursuing pretty much Tory policies. So you can see why Labour members dislike him. What's the Tory reason for disliking Cameron, is it just Europe or is there something else?
Cameron is continuity Blair.
Which is why Conservative supporters say "why do Labour supporters hate Blair" and why Labour supporters say "why do Conservative supporters hate Cameron".
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
He doesn't appear to hate Johnny Foreigner enough for some people
Labour anti-Semitism tsar's praise for militant who says the 'crimes' of Israel are worse than the Taliban's
Shami Chakrabarti appointed to lead inquiry into anti-Semitism in party Once described Moazzam Begg as 'wonderful advocate… for human rights' He went to Afghanistan to build schools for children of Al Qaeda fighters Mr Begg recently caused a storm on Twitter by declaring: 'Israel's crimes far outweigh Taliban's who are in their own country. Zionist Israelis aren't'
What the f*ck is wrong with some of you right-wingers!
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Blair won 3 elections for Labour and is a pariah.
Yes, but there was the Iraq war and he was pursuing pretty much Tory policies. So you can see why Labour members dislike him. What's the Tory reason for disliking Cameron, is it just Europe or is there something else?
Cameron is continuity Blair.
Which is why Conservative supporters say "why do Labour supporters hate Blair" and why Labour supporters say "why do Conservative supporters hate Cameron".
Spot on.
Well you can hate both because you keep switching sides. Frankly I don't hate anyone, I loathed Brown with a passion, but hate,.. ?? Brown was utterly bonkers
Comments
e.g Dan Hodges, Ian Birrell.
As Rawnsley points out in Observer, this is a massive mistake.
last week we had our village assembly ( elected reps meet the community ) and the hot topic was where's our high speed broadband ? ( it should have been in 3 years ago ).
The parish councillor, the district councillor and the county councillor ( all Conservative ) sang in unison that EU clearance was one of the main factors causing a delay. Next day up pops Osborne as chief ramper to the masses to say leaving the EU wouldn't speed up broadband installation in rural areas. So one of the bunch of Tories has to be lying to our faces.
I live 10 miles south of the UKs second largest conurbation and we are in the dark ages. I had better service last week in a small village in the highlands then in posh commuter belt Warwickshire.
I concluded we should just shoot all the useless Tories and elect the SNP if we want broadband round here and yes I did just write that :-)
Frau Merkel's doing the negotiation anything could happen.
You will be told later what it means for you and conform.
Do we (the British electorate who are voting next month) have a veto? No we do not.
Does the British government with a stated policy of accepting Turkey as soon as possible have a veto? Yes.
Is this the last chance we (as the British electorate) have to stop Turkish membership? Almost certainly yes.
With respect that is just nonsense. If and when Turkey are in a position to meet membership rules not only David Cameron, but most of today's politicians will have left office, and the government of the day will have the right to veto or otherwise Turkey's membersghip
--------------------------------
Good post !
Alan, impossible, Carlotta keeps telling me Scotland is falling to bits, she gets CCHQ reports sent to her on her tax exile island to prove it.
OOOPs no idea what happened there, it is to another post.
"as rate cuts have now outpaced rate rises for seven consecutive months, according to new data."
"One of the major reasons that rates have fallen so drastically is that providers have an overabundance of cash. Banks and building societies balance their savings book against their lending book, with returns from lending funding the rates paid to savers."
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/05/22/the-next-recession/#vanilla-comments
I somehow cant see that being a barrier in France or Germany. I often get better mobile reception at the top of the Alps than in my own village.
By the way, do our MPs have immunity from prosecution ? Chris Huhne would have been better of in Turkey !
right so you think an Erdogan MP is just as likely to be prosecuted as a Kurdish one ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYMD_W_r3Fg
"Meet the new boss ... same as the old boss"
"What is it the government is doing that you oppose?"
That seems an unfair question to ask as it's not doing anything at all. Unless you go count going around pissing off its own supporters. I'd be happy to see it tear itself apart if it wasn't for the threat of Jezza lurking in the background.
I used to think that all the student Trots from the late sixties had grown up or died out but it appears our current students are taking over the mantle from them.
This was Boris Johnson before he was born again.
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/733996551324852229
Anyway, since when have you become friends of the PKK ? ISIS next ?
We can trust good old Mr Erdogan to apply the law as it is meant to be applied by kicking the shit out of the Kurds.
"Call their bluff and vote for what you want."
Oh, I will, but my success rate is on a par with Mr Observer's. I voted Labour when Foot was in charge. I voted LD when the hero of Chilcot came to power, and I voted Ukip at the last GE when David "you didn't take me seriously when I said I meant what I said no ifs and no buts, did you?" Cameron was returned.
I may vote Green next time just to give them the kiss of death.
Mind you - I have seen No-one in Bishop Auckland with a 'Stronger in' one, nor any other businesses with any Stronger In posters.
So Bishop Auckland will be voting 100% LEAVE.
Maybe they could try Europians to leave the EU.
There are more than enough questions to be answered by Erdogan's crew on corruption, I think the chances any of them will be prosecuted are zero.
Maybe those in charge of those large commonwealth countries wanted Brit immigration then with the size but want you want for this small country is Quite mad.
Cameron won two elections for you lot, one against all the odds. No-one in the Conservative party could have achieved what he has achieved. He has detoxified the Tory party and made the Tories a party of Government. Bottom line, he's a very smart cookie.
Whether Blair was right or wrong on Iraq, to dismiss him entirely is foolhardy of Labour.
The party supporters didn't elect him to implement the other sides policies.
His reputation is shot - spin, lies, self enrichment, Murdoch, middle east wars, slipppery etc.
He;s from another era when voters were naive and trusting. Today when they're suspicious, under pressure and disgruntled he's best left in the background.
Which is why Conservative supporters say "why do Labour supporters hate Blair" and why Labour supporters say "why do Conservative supporters hate Cameron".
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
In 1985 in Stuttgart they were laying down cable all over the city, quite a bit ahead of the UK.
Its the 'gentleman in Whitehall / City knows best' philosophy.
Labour anti-Semitism tsar's praise for militant who says the 'crimes' of Israel are worse than the Taliban's
Shami Chakrabarti appointed to lead inquiry into anti-Semitism in party
Once described Moazzam Begg as 'wonderful advocate… for human rights'
He went to Afghanistan to build schools for children of Al Qaeda fighters
Mr Begg recently caused a storm on Twitter by declaring: 'Israel's crimes far outweigh Taliban's who are in their own country. Zionist Israelis aren't'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3602888/Labour-anti-Semitism-tsar-s-praise-militant-says-crimes-Israel-worse-Taliban-s.html#ixzz49OROSuIZ