Interesting intervention by the very political (for a coomentator) Paul Mason on Question Time last night. He's a strong Brexiteer who says he will very possibly vote Remain because he would prefer to be in an anti democratic EU than face the likelihood of Johnson or Gove or any of the leaders of LEAVE becoming Prime Minister.
It's a perfectly respectable argument if leaving the EU is less important to him than stopping Boris Johnson or Michael Gove becoming Prime Minister. The incredulity with which this argument has been received by many Leavers shows that they don't understand that not everyone sees the subject of the EU as the top priority (though only a small minority in fact do so).
Leavers tend to feel they have a monopoly of patriotism. They have a far deeper passion for the issue than Remainders do. If there's no value bet on the result itself, how about trying to start a book on a Leaver trying to kill a Remainder with a view to pleading "justifiable homicide" in court?
I'll go 7-2 on that. Wager to be settled at year end. £20 max.
I do hope that the luvvvie letter is dismissed by someone who is popular amongst the groups most likely to vote Leave - someone like Ian Botham - as people used to the limelight who don't have enough faith in the public they want to watch their shows making a good decision.
Apparently we also have Liz Hurley. TBH, I'm just glad the worst self-righteous luvvies are getting told to bugger off. The Guardian's frontpage is so awkward - a whole slab of celeb mugshots, next to a giant headline about child sex abuse.
If that was the Mail, I could understand the piss-taking...
Interesting intervention by the very political (for a coomentator) Paul Mason on Question Time last night. He's a strong Brexiteer who says he will very possibly vote Remain because he would prefer to be in an anti democratic EU than face the likelihood of Johnson or Gove or any of the leaders of LEAVE becoming Prime Minister.
It's a perfectly respectable argument if leaving the EU is less important to him than stopping Boris Johnson or Michael Gove becoming Prime Minister. The incredulity with which this argument has been received by many Leavers shows that they don't understand that not everyone sees the subject of the EU as the top priority (though only a small minority in fact do so).
The idea of a Gove / Johnson govt is a massive disincentive to vote Leave. A dreadful prospect.
Yep - those thinking Labour voters will vote Leave to kick out Dave and George forget that most Labour voters believe - correctly - that Labour will lose in 2020. If the current PM and Chancellor go, all it will mean is a further Tory move to the right. Why facilitate that? And wo in their right mind would want Boris anywhere near power? The referendum campaign has proved just how unsuited to it he is.
To be fair SO, no one has covered themselves in glory on this.
A few have remained quiet - but those who have got involved, including our PM, have revealed many faults.
I agree, but when you're sane and on the centre left - like the majority of Labour voters (as opposed to members) - you have to play the percentages. It's a crap choice, but Dave and George are a better option than Boris and Mike (and Piri, Chris, John etc).
Interesting intervention by the very political (for a coomentator) Paul Mason on Question Time last night. He's a strong Brexiteer who says he will very possibly vote Remain because he would prefer to be in an anti democratic EU than face the likelihood of Johnson or Gove or any of the leaders of LEAVE becoming Prime Minister.
It's a perfectly respectable argument if leaving the EU is less important to him than stopping Boris Johnson or Michael Gove becoming Prime Minister. The incredulity with which this argument has been received by many Leavers shows that they don't understand that not everyone sees the subject of the EU as the top priority (though only a small minority in fact do so).
The principle he objected to was that we would have an ultra right Prime Minister (as he sees it) without ever having voted for one.
Who are you suggesting is ultra right?
Gove, who freed schools from government control
Wut? He simply moved them from local government control and put them under central government control.
I see that ComRes had current Tories splitting evenly for Leave/Remain, and Tory voters from 2015 favouring Leave. That does suggest that Ipsos MORI's finding that Tories favoured Remain by 60/34 is an outlier.
Both samples fall into the usual telephone failing of finding an EICIPM sample. After that it's a competition to see who performs the most accurate adjustments and applies the most accurate weightings.
Interesting intervention by the very political (for a coomentator) Paul Mason on Question Time last night. He's a strong Brexiteer who says he will very possibly vote Remain because he would prefer to be in an anti democratic EU than face the likelihood of Johnson or Gove or any of the leaders of LEAVE becoming Prime Minister.
It's a perfectly respectable argument if leaving the EU is less important to him than stopping Boris Johnson or Michael Gove becoming Prime Minister. The incredulity with which this argument has been received by many Leavers shows that they don't understand that not everyone sees the subject of the EU as the top priority (though only a small minority in fact do so).
The idea of a Gove / Johnson govt is a massive disincentive to vote Leave. A dreadful prospect.
Yep - those thinking Labour voters will vote Leave to kick out Dave and George forget that most Labour voters believe - correctly - that Labour will lose in 2020. If the current PM and Chancellor go, all it will mean is a further Tory move to the right. Why facilitate that? And wo in their right mind would want Boris anywhere near power? The referendum campaign has proved just how unsuited to it he is.
To be fair SO, no one has covered themselves in glory on this.
A few have remained quiet - but those who have got involved, including our PM, have revealed many faults.
I agree, but when you're sane and on the centre left - like the majority of Labour voters (as opposed to members) - you have to play the percentages. It's a crap choice, but Dave and George are a better option than Boris and Mike (and Piri, Chris, John etc).
If Leave win, we'll be in LIMBO (Liam, Iain, Michael, Boris, Owen).
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
Being a Spurs fan seems to have doomed you to a life of pessimism. I blame your parents.
I do hope that the luvvvie letter is dismissed by someone who is popular amongst the groups most likely to vote Leave - someone like Ian Botham - as people used to the limelight who don't have enough faith in the public they want to watch their shows making a good decision.
Apparently we also have Liz Hurley. TBH, I'm just glad the worst self-righteous luvvies are getting told to bugger off. The Guardian's frontpage is so awkward - a whole slab of celeb mugshots, next to a giant headline about child sex abuse.
If that was the Mail, I could understand the piss-taking...
Mr. Meeks, because respecting the wishes of the electorate is how democracy works?
The public was not offered Michael Gove or Boris Johnson as Prime Minister at the last election.
We weren't offered Callaghan, Major or Brown either, but this is a parliamentary democracy. We do not directly elect the PM.
So you will have absolutely no problem with voters casting their vote in such a way as to maximise their chances of securing the government that they wish to see from the likely options.
Interesting intervention by the very political (for a coomentator) Paul Mason on Question Time last night. He's a strong Brexiteer who says he will very possibly vote Remain because he would prefer to be in an anti democratic EU than face the likelihood of Johnson or Gove or any of the leaders of LEAVE becoming Prime Minister.
It's a perfectly respectable argument if leaving the EU is less important to him than stopping Boris Johnson or Michael Gove becoming Prime Minister. The incredulity with which this argument has been received by many Leavers shows that they don't understand that not everyone sees the subject of the EU as the top priority (though only a small minority in fact do so).
The idea of a Gove / Johnson govt is a massive disincentive to vote Leave. A dreadful prospect.
Yep - those thinking Labour voters will vote Leave to kick out Dave and George forget that most Labour voters believe - correctly - that Labour will lose in 2020. If the current PM and Chancellor go, all it will mean is a further Tory move to the right. Why facilitate that? And wo in their right mind would want Boris anywhere near power? The referendum campaign has proved just how unsuited to it he is.
To be fair SO, no one has covered themselves in glory on this.
A few have remained quiet - but those who have got involved, including our PM, have revealed many faults.
I agree, but when you're sane and on the centre left - like the majority of Labour voters (as opposed to members) - you have to play the percentages. It's a crap choice, but Dave and George are a better option than Boris and Mike (and Piri, Chris, John etc).
If Leave win, we'll be in LIMBO (Liam, Iain, Michael, Boris, Owen).
Limbo was housed in hell...
The idea of a puffed up Boris, fresh from a Leave win and drunk on faux Churchillian rhetoric, is a dreadful prospect for PM.
That alone is enough to extinguish any thoughts of a Leave vote,
In terms of what Leave should be doing my thoughts are this.
Remain told a pack of lies about the nature and got away with it in 1975 because there was no social media and only the pro Soviet Left and a few eccentrics supported leave.
Leaves task this time is to stop Remain doing the same. Call Remains lies out and explain what the EU is really about.
What would happen after Brexit is for the government to explain not Leave, because it is the government not leave who will do the negotiating. (one reason Wilson was so much wiser than Cameron in staying largely neutral in 1975)
Problem is both sides are exaggerating and lying and I suspect most voters know that.
Many will decide based on which side they believe least and that is where I expect Remain to win as Leave has never really succeeded in breaking out from being a UKIP/ Tory Right campaign.
With the Tories split down the middle for Leave to build a winning coalition it would need heavyweight support from sections of Labour, Trade Unions, Lib Dems, Greens or SNP. It's not happening and it's not going to happen.
On PB the referendum is rarely discussed outside of the fight within the Tory party. Out there in the real world it's not quite like that.
Mr. Meeks, because respecting the wishes of the electorate is how democracy works?
The public was not offered Michael Gove or Boris Johnson as Prime Minister at the last election.
We weren't offered Callaghan, Major or Brown either, but this is a parliamentary democracy. We do not directly elect the PM.
So you will have absolutely no problem with voters casting their vote in such a way as to maximise their chances of securing the government that they wish to see from the likely options.
Of course not. The people are free to vote in which ever way and for whatever purpose as they like.
To all intents and purposes, the Government no longer has a reliable majority.
Further down there's an interview with Khan which may interest Cyclefree and others. I think he's got a fair point that Trump and others may well think that nearly all Muslims are bonkers since that's the only news reports they see about them.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
Being a Spurs fan seems to have doomed you to a life of pessimism. I blame your parents.
My Dad. My Mum's family were all Arsenal. But she didn't take me to my first game (Spurs won 6-0 against Lynn Oslo (?), Ralph Coates hat-trick). If she had Spurs would have won many more trophies and Arsenal would still be at Highbury ;-)
To all intents and purposes, the Government no longer has a reliable majority.
Further down there's an interview with Khan which may interest Cyclefree and others. I think he's got a fair point that Trump and others may well think that nearly all Muslims are bonkers since that's the only news reports they see about them.
Whilst we distract ourselves with euref this govt is turning out to be the weakest I can remember.
To all intents and purposes, the Government no longer has a reliable majority.
Further down there's an interview with Khan which may interest Cyclefree and others. I think he's got a fair point that Trump and others may well think that nearly all Muslims are bonkers since that's the only news reports they see about them.
The government is now a coalition. The only question is whether its component parts will stand against each other at the next election.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
Being a Spurs fan seems to have doomed you to a life of pessimism. I blame your parents.
My Dad. My Mum's family were all Arsenal. But she didn't take me to my first game (Spurs won 6-0 against Lynn Oslo (?), Ralph Coates hat-trick). If she had Spurs would have won many more trophies and Arsenal would still be at Highbury ;-)
In reality we have a economy with retail sales at an all time high, the current account deficit at an all time high, the savings ration at an all time low and the government having borrowed £172bn more than Osborne said it would.
Thank you. Looking at those tables, I'm struck by the bizarrely low numbers for dk. Surely we have shy dkers pretending to have plumped for a side - like a reverse pb. I can't think of another explanation.
It'll probably move a few votes into the Leave camp.
I doubt it will move many votes at all but many of the names on that list are far more highly regarded by people than most of the politicians on both sides of the debate.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
John
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
So Canada gets added to the list of countries who Leave are not going to be fwiends wiv. The list of fwiendly countries shrinks by the day.
Trump has backed BREXIT though as has Marine Le Pen, so Leave need to cheer on The Donald and Marine in the US and French presidential elections if they win
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
There are things I really don't want to happen and there are things I'm neutral about. Mostly I can detach. The Tories last year were very obviously going to win most seats - everything pointed to it. There was nothing emotional guiding my belief there. With the referendum in Scotland there was. With Romney it was the very basic error of mistaking my peer group for being in any way representative. I did also say there'd be a hung Parliament with Tories most seats in 2010.
My bottom line - only stake serious money when losing it would not be emotionally painful. It works.
I'm not sure this govt could deliver the Cones Hotline.
It must be very unlikely that it delivers the seat reduction and boundary review.
Yes, good point and, furthermore, a good thing. Cameron is so useless: if he were serious about reducing the costs of democracy, his government would make a priority of taking out the large pruners on the massively overgrown House of Lords .... But, then, Cameron's not serious about lots of things, unless it's things like increasing representation of gays in BBC senior management ...
So let's all Remain in the big European La La Land; the biggest Ponzi Scheme in the world.
To be fair, Mike, every debt crisis in history is "solved" via the process of "extend and pretend". If you keep pushing back maturities and giving interest holidays, eventually inflation solved the problem.
I do hope that the luvvvie letter is dismissed by someone who is popular amongst the groups most likely to vote Leave - someone like Ian Botham - as people used to the limelight who don't have enough faith in the public they want to watch their shows making a good decision.
Joan Collins, Roger Daltrey, Jim Davidson, Geoff Boycott, Michael Caine and Liz Hurley as mentioned are also celebrities backing Leave
Morning. Yes that did look like it was one stunt too far for Ryanair, someone could be in hot water for tying a discount on a service to a vote for a specific outcome.
Maybe quite a few ex-pats will take advantage of the offer to fly home to vote Leave.
Two pieces currently running on Telegraph Money section -
One saying that UK pensions could be frozen in EU if we Brexit (as they are in Canada and Australia now)
One saying that the European EHIC Health card would cease if we Brexit and leave EEA (which I believe is Leave's current preferred option)
Don't there will be many EU expats rushing back to vote Leave.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
John
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
You're only as old as you feel. So I'm with the youthful care-free twenty-somethings and voting REMAIN.
Remain = Tories against closet Kippers on the Tory backbenches seizing power
If you can't understand, even when someone like Paul Mason spells it out in the most explicit of ways, then you are beyond help.
The left are voting Remain to ensure that we don't have a full blown Tory government and that we have the EU keeping them on a lead until such time that someone like Comrade Corbyn wins.
Remain = Tories against closet Kippers on the Tory backbenches seizing power
If you can't understand, even when someone like Paul Mason spells it out in the most explicit of ways, then you are beyond help.
The left are voting Remain to ensure that we don't have Tory government and that we have the EU keeping them on a lead until such time that someone like Comrade Corbyn wins.
That's Remain.
I usually enjoy most of Mason's analyses but he had some odd stuff on QT last night. Unless I misunderstood - he's probably going to vote Remain as this is the wrong time to bring the whole EU project down, but it needs to be done at some point as the whole thing is undemocratic.
I do hope that the luvvvie letter is dismissed by someone who is popular amongst the groups most likely to vote Leave - someone like Ian Botham - as people used to the limelight who don't have enough faith in the public they want to watch their shows making a good decision.
Joan Collins, Roger Daltrey, Jim Davidson, Geoff Boycott, Michael Caine and Liz Hurley as mentioned are also celebrities backing Leave
Noticeably, these OUT celebrities have spoken as individuals, unlike these ("creative and imaginative" luvvies) who have acted collectively.
Interesting intervention by the very political (for a coomentator) Paul Mason on Question Time last night. He's a strong Brexiteer who says he will very possibly vote Remain because he would prefer to be in an anti democratic EU than face the likelihood of Johnson or Gove or any of the leaders of LEAVE becoming Prime Minister.
There was a similar opinion piece in the Guardian a few days ago essentially saying that there are problems with the EU but now is not the time to vote to exit and hand a political victory to UKIP, IDS & Gove.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
John
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
You're only as old as you feel. So I'm with the youthful care-free twenty-somethings...
Does that mean you won't bother to turn out in the end?
I do hope that the luvvvie letter is dismissed by someone who is popular amongst the groups most likely to vote Leave - someone like Ian Botham - as people used to the limelight who don't have enough faith in the public they want to watch their shows making a good decision.
Joan Collins, Roger Daltrey, Jim Davidson, Geoff Boycott, Michael Caine and Liz Hurley as mentioned are also celebrities backing Leave
Noticeably, these OUT celebrities have spoken as individuals, unlike these ("creative and imaginative" luvvies) who have acted collectively.
Perhaps Farage should hold a 'celebrities' for Leave rally!
Interesting intervention by the very political (for a coomentator) Paul Mason on Question Time last night. He's a strong Brexiteer who says he will very possibly vote Remain because he would prefer to be in an anti democratic EU than face the likelihood of Johnson or Gove or any of the leaders of LEAVE becoming Prime Minister.
There was a similar opinion piece in the Guardian a few days ago essentially saying that there are problems with the EU but now is not the time to vote to exit and hand a political victory to UKIP, IDS & Gove.
I suspect that'll play a big part in the last two weeks of the election. Cameron got in because he didn't frighten the horses.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
John
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
You're only as old as you feel. So I'm with the youthful care-free twenty-somethings and voting REMAIN.
A friend of mine (a strong Corbynite) told me last night that he's decided to abstain on the EU Referendum. He wants to vote Remain but can't bring himself to vote for Cameron under any circumstances.
Anecdote, but I suspect he's not the only one.
I do hope so Or as some others are doing, voting Leave to bring Cameron down.
Duh, Cameron has already said he's leaving so why would anyone vote against what they really believed to "bring him down"? . Another wizard strategy from Leave
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
John
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
You're only as old as you feel. So I'm with the youthful care-free twenty-somethings and voting REMAIN.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
John
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
You're only as old as you feel. So I'm with the youthful care-free twenty-somethings and voting REMAIN.
I do hope that the luvvvie letter is dismissed by someone who is popular amongst the groups most likely to vote Leave - someone like Ian Botham - as people used to the limelight who don't have enough faith in the public they want to watch their shows making a good decision.
Apparently we also have Liz Hurley. TBH, I'm just glad the worst self-righteous luvvies are getting told to bugger off. The Guardian's frontpage is so awkward - a whole slab of celeb mugshots, next to a giant headline about child sex abuse.
If that was the Mail, I could understand the piss-taking...
Why do you get so exercised about other people expressing their opinion? We all get a vote, we can all voice our opinions. If what other people is so inconsequential why do you regularly post links to any old nonentity that has said something in favour of Leave?
Your attempt to infer a link between the celebrity Remainers and child abuse is beneath contempt, but not really surprising unfortunately.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
John
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
You're only as old as you feel. So I'm with the youthful care-free twenty-somethings and voting REMAIN.
Youre reliving that 1975 moment again.
Precisely. "You've got to stay in to move on".
I took it more that you were trying to disprove the old adage that age brings wisdom :-)
I was musing on the way home from Sandown last evening on the nature of polls when I saw the ComRes numbers. There seems to be two assumptions on here at present - a) a lot of people have given a lot of thought to the EU Referendum and b) the polls are an accurate reflection of the current state of opinion.
I'm happy to go with the latter but much less convinced about the former. If a week is a long time in politics, a month is an eternity. It suits REMAIN to play up strong polls for them as part of the psychology of the campaign, to demoralise and weaken their opponents but in a binary situation, opinion moves can be very sharp. In a multi-party election, small opinion polls move can mask considerable churn between and across the parties.
In a referendum, there are only three states - Yes, No or Don't Know. As we are still to have the set piece debates and Q&A sessions, I think there's a lot to play for. Neither side has really acquitted themselves that well so far but that's down to the length of the campaign and has shades of 1997 about it.
The problem is, the two sides feel they have to "win" every day so in lieu of proper speeches and the like, it's war by tweet. Most tweets from anyone and everyone are a waste of computing power and betray the intellectual vacuity of the sender (and of course anyone re-tweeting simply compounds and extends that) but it's how a key aspect of politics - the media war - functions.
Anything you have ever said is used against you by the opposite tide and heaven help you if you change your mind - for some reason, politicians, unlike everyone else, have to hold the same opinions on every subject without change. As an example, if you supported Britain joining the Euro in the 90s, that's used as a stick to beat you with for reasons I can't comprehend.
@PeterMannionMP: Vote Leave happily pimped support of Michael Caine, Beefy and fella from The Who, now 282 sign a #Remain letter it's all 'keep out luvvies'.
@PeterMannionMP: Vote Leave happily pimped support of Michael Caine, Beefy and fella from The Who, now 282 sign a #Remain letter it's all 'keep out luvvies'.
Beyond stupid;
“From the Bard to Bowie, British creativity inspires and influences the rest of the world,” it says. “We believe that being part of the EU bolsters Britain’s leading role on the world stage.”
Remain = Tories against closet Kippers on the Tory backbenches seizing power
If you can't understand, even when someone like Paul Mason spells it out in the most explicit of ways, then you are beyond help.
The left are voting Remain to ensure that we don't have a full blown Tory government and that we have the EU keeping them on a lead until such time that someone like Comrade Corbyn wins.
@PeterMannionMP: Vote Leave happily pimped support of Michael Caine, Beefy and fella from The Who, now 282 sign a #Remain letter it's all 'keep out luvvies'.
Beyond stupid;
“From the Bard to Bowie, British creativity inspires and influences the rest of the world,” it says. “We believe that being part of the EU bolsters Britain’s leading role on the world stage.”
Perhaps Vote Leave will apply for a super-injunction to stop reporting of it.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
John
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
You're only as old as you feel. So I'm with the youthful care-free twenty-somethings and voting REMAIN.
Youre reliving that 1975 moment again.
Precisely. "You've got to stay in to move on".
I took it more that you were trying to disprove the old adage that age brings wisdom :-)
Grow old disgracefully....I mean, look at Jack: he must be 120 by now.
@PeterMannionMP: Vote Leave happily pimped support of Michael Caine, Beefy and fella from The Who, now 282 sign a #Remain letter it's all 'keep out luvvies'.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
John
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
You're only as old as you feel. So I'm with the youthful care-free twenty-somethings and voting REMAIN.
Youre reliving that 1975 moment again.
Precisely. "You've got to stay in to move on".
I took it more that you were trying to disprove the old adage that age brings wisdom :-)
Grow old disgracefully....I mean, look at Jack: he must be 120 by now.
If you were growing lod disgracefully you'd be off playing tennis :-)
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
John
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
You're only as old as you feel. So I'm with the youthful care-free twenty-somethings and voting REMAIN.
Youre reliving that 1975 moment again.
Precisely. "You've got to stay in to move on".
I took it more that you were trying to disprove the old adage that age brings wisdom :-)
Grow old disgracefully....I mean, look at Jack: he must be 120 by now.
My default position is always that when I support something it will fail. Over the years it has stood me in very good stead! I never, ever bet on something happening that I want to happen.
And your record here exemplifies the corollary: everything you don't want to happen, invariably doesn't either. Thus Romney will be President, the Scots will vote to leave the UK, the Tories will win in 2015 (actually you got that one right!).
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
John
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
You're only as old as you feel. So I'm with the youthful care-free twenty-somethings and voting REMAIN.
Youre reliving that 1975 moment again.
Precisely. "You've got to stay in to move on".
I took it more that you were trying to disprove the old adage that age brings wisdom :-)
Grow old disgracefully....I mean, look at Jack: he must be 120 by now.
If you were growing old disgracefully you'd be off playing tennis :-)
Comments
Limbo was housed in hell...
Why the EU is keeping quiet about Greek debt
The eurozone should stop pussyfooting around and accept the country will never pay back its creditors
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/why-the-eu-is-keeping-quiet-about-greek-debt-f3s9bw39n
So let's all Remain in the big European La La Land; the biggest Ponzi Scheme in the world.
Remain = Tories against closet Kippers on the Tory backbenches seizing power
That alone is enough to extinguish any thoughts of a Leave vote,
Two can play at your game of being very pedantic in what one uses as evidence for their argument.
Brexiteers this morning
We will be like CanadaWe will trade with Canada
Oh, FCK OFF Canada
I wholeheartedly agree with Southerm on this. If go all out to support something political, it - whatever it is - rarely succeeds.
Many will decide based on which side they believe least and that is where I expect Remain to win as Leave has never really succeeded in breaking out from being a UKIP/ Tory Right campaign.
With the Tories split down the middle for Leave to build a winning coalition it would need heavyweight support from sections of Labour, Trade Unions, Lib Dems, Greens or SNP. It's not happening and it's not going to happen.
On PB the referendum is rarely discussed outside of the fight within the Tory party. Out there in the real world it's not quite like that.
http://link.huffingtonpost.com/view/524aa3dc3227b874ccf8030140x1g.5pb/51583237
To all intents and purposes, the Government no longer has a reliable majority.
Further down there's an interview with Khan which may interest Cyclefree and others. I think he's got a fair point that Trump and others may well think that nearly all Muslims are bonkers since that's the only news reports they see about them.
"We could be like Albania." - Gove.
"You don't want to be, trust me." - Albanian PM.
And next on the list is your mantra Dave reaping what he says on immigration inexorably leading to Brexit on June 23rd.....
I do genuinely marvel at the despairing, almost dolorous, tone of resigned certitude of each and every apocalypse. You are pb's little ray of sunshine.
They're leaving it late.
Mr. Jonathan, it need not have been so weak. Cameron's mishandled his party badly.
Now what was it that George Osborne promised in his 2010 Budget:
"Our policy is to raise from the ruins of an economy built on debt a new, balanced economy where we save, invest and export."
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jun/22/emergency-budget-full-speech-text
In reality we have a economy with retail sales at an all time high, the current account deficit at an all time high, the savings ration at an all time low and the government having borrowed £172bn more than Osborne said it would.
VI, EU headline and supplementals on most important two or three factors influencing EU vote.
https://twitter.com/DanHannanMEP/status/733563656718278658
Are they hoping for Fergie-time ?
Are you an OUTER or will you be voting with your demographic?
My bottom line - only stake serious money when losing it would not be emotionally painful. It works.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36323823
No wonder he got on so well with Clegg.
One saying that UK pensions could be frozen in EU if we Brexit (as they are in Canada and Australia now)
One saying that the European EHIC Health card would cease if we Brexit and leave EEA (which I believe is Leave's current preferred option)
Don't there will be many EU expats rushing back to vote Leave.
The left are voting Remain to ensure that we don't have a full blown Tory government and that we have the EU keeping them on a lead until such time that someone like Comrade Corbyn wins.
That's Remain.
There was a similar opinion piece in the Guardian a few days ago essentially saying that there are problems with the EU but now is not the time to vote to exit and hand a political victory to UKIP, IDS & Gove.
The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of the latest ARSE4EU Referendum Projection :
Should The United Kingdom Remain A Member Of The European Union Or Leave The European Union?
Remain 56% (+2) .. Leave 44% (-2)
Turnout Projection 65% (+1)
Changes from 17th May.
......................................................................
WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
JNN - Jacobite News Network
ARSE4EU - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors For European Union
Sales of L'Oreal must be booming in Hersham.
My take is thus:
Remain 51.5%
Leave 48.5%
Turnout 59%
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZVpOg8qHL0
http://www.livingroomcandidate.org/commercials/1968/laughter
Your attempt to infer a link between the celebrity Remainers and child abuse is beneath contempt, but not really surprising unfortunately.
I was musing on the way home from Sandown last evening on the nature of polls when I saw the ComRes numbers. There seems to be two assumptions on here at present - a) a lot of people have given a lot of thought to the EU Referendum and b) the polls are an accurate reflection of the current state of opinion.
I'm happy to go with the latter but much less convinced about the former. If a week is a long time in politics, a month is an eternity. It suits REMAIN to play up strong polls for them as part of the psychology of the campaign, to demoralise and weaken their opponents but in a binary situation, opinion moves can be very sharp. In a multi-party election, small opinion polls move can mask considerable churn between and across the parties.
In a referendum, there are only three states - Yes, No or Don't Know. As we are still to have the set piece debates and Q&A sessions, I think there's a lot to play for. Neither side has really acquitted themselves that well so far but that's down to the length of the campaign and has shades of 1997 about it.
The problem is, the two sides feel they have to "win" every day so in lieu of proper speeches and the like, it's war by tweet. Most tweets from anyone and everyone are a waste of computing power and betray the intellectual vacuity of the sender (and of course anyone re-tweeting simply compounds and extends that) but it's how a key aspect of politics - the media war - functions.
Anything you have ever said is used against you by the opposite tide and heaven help you if you change your mind - for some reason, politicians, unlike everyone else, have to hold the same opinions on every subject without change. As an example, if you supported Britain joining the Euro in the 90s, that's used as a stick to beat you with for reasons I can't comprehend.
“From the Bard to Bowie, British creativity inspires and influences the rest of the world,” it says. “We believe that being part of the EU bolsters Britain’s leading role on the world stage.”
LEXIT!!