Of all the things wrong with the BBC, it would be hard to argue that a shortage of gay people making and presenting programmes is one of them. As Andrew Marr observed a decade ago: ‘The BBC is not impartial or neutral. It’s a publicly funded, urban organisation with an abnormally large number of young people, ethnic minorities, and gay people. It has a liberal bias, not so much a party-political bias. It is better expressed as a cultural liberal bias.’
Why, then, is the government intent on making the BBC even more gay? In one of the less-reported sections of this week’s white paper on the future of the corporation, John Whittingdale lays down a target that 10 per cent of senior leadership roles at the BBC be filled by LGBT staff by 2020.
Boris has won The Spectator’s President Erdogan Offensive Poetry competition, and here it is:
There was a young fellow from Ankara Who was a terrific wankerer Till he sowed his wild oats With the help of a goat But he didn’t even stop to thankera.
I'm sorry, this is typical posh boy Boris being rewarded disproportionately to his talents self-congratulatedly by the Spectator. I can think of far more offensive poetry, to wit:
Erdogan is a [redacted] Erdogan is a [redacted] Erdogan is a [redacted] And so's his mum.
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
More likely people who are in the middle who have worked hard to get where they are, perhaps have a mortgage, and aren't able to see anything in the Leavers economic argument to justify the risk of supporting them.
If WHITTINDALE wants 10% of upper management at the BBC to be Gay by 2020 ..he will have to sack a few of the present staff to get the numbers down to that level
Presumably, there is no allowance for personal privacy in these matters - the policy could only be enacted if individuals were forced to reveal their sexual preferences (and some may prefer celibacy).
I fail to see what possible reason there is today to puff up being gay as an employment quota. It's like employing vegans. Only they love to tell us about it. And Matthew Parris who twaddles on about it endlessly.
Q: how do you know if someone is vegan? A: they tell you.
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Was that to exclude us from certain aspects ?
This time the amendment seems to be from the left, giving the NHS a veto over TTIP rather than cracking down on worker's rights or w/e the 1993 amendment was.
I'd imagine the amendment would command majority support in the country !
Mr. T, if it's a missile fired from a boat that would raise more questions about policing the Mediterranean.
Mr. Viewcode, must agree. I tried to think of something for that competition (was under the impression the winner would be announced in June), and had one or two nice ideas (wanted to rhyme 'ISIS penetrated his Sublime Porte, he welcomed them into his inner court') but poetry isn't really my thing.
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
The Euronutters in the Tory party proving Einsteins definition of insanity.
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Was that to exclude us from certain aspects ?
This time the amendment seems to be from the left, giving the NHS a veto over TTIP rather than cracking down on worker's rights or w/e the 1993 amendment was.
I'd imagine the amendment would command majority support in the country !
No, the Eurosceptics wanted us to adopt the social chapter.
John Major had said he would never sign us up to the social chapter, so the eurosceptics thought it would be a good idea to derail the whole Maastricht vote by backing Labour's amendment, who were in favour of the social chapter.
They're not due to be given the Open again until 2023 so I guess there is still a bit of time for them to change their minds on this. I had wondered if Turnberry would be snubbed given its controversial owner but I suspect it will get 202.
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Was that to exclude us from certain aspects ?
This time the amendment seems to be from the left, giving the NHS a veto over TTIP rather than cracking down on worker's rights or w/e the 1993 amendment was.
I'd imagine the amendment would command majority support in the country !
No, the Eurosceptics wanted us to adopt the social chapter.
John Major had said he would never sign us up to the social chapter, so the eurosceptics thought it would be a good idea to derail the whole Maastricht vote.
The UK has won Eurovision only ONCE since Maastricht!
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Was that to exclude us from certain aspects ?
This time the amendment seems to be from the left, giving the NHS a veto over TTIP rather than cracking down on worker's rights or w/e the 1993 amendment was.
I'd imagine the amendment would command majority support in the country !
No, the Eurosceptics wanted us to adopt the social chapter.
John Major had said he would never sign us up to the social chapter, so the eurosceptics thought it would be a good idea to derail the whole Maastricht vote.
Funny when you consider it was immaterial anyway. The ECJ just reclassified it as a health and safety issue and forced it on us irrespective of what Parliament voted for.
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Gosh, you really can't understand what happened in 1992, can you?
John Major was almost solely responsible for pro-European policy that wiped out a carefully crafted coalition of self-employed and home owners. There's a reason that Ukip's emblem is a £. Instead of taking the blame himself, he blamed Italians, Germans and anyone but himself. The Tory party itself ended up tearing itself apart because of his egotism. Stop trying to offload the blame from it should lie.
Very likely a bomb or some other terror attack. ISIS "claiming responsibility"
What will this do to European security? Expect enormous queues at airports through the summer.
What will this do to French tourism? The plane took off from Paris. Unless it turns out this was a missile fired from a boat then ... eeesh.
I think a bomb or land-based firing is more likely. I am not an expert on these issues, so if Yokel is around, he can correct me, but AFAIK ground-to-air missiles that reach that altitude usually require multiple vehicles, including upward-looking radar. So it's unlikely all that would be easily packed onto a small boat.
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Gosh, you really can't understand what happened in 1992, can you?
John Major was almost solely responsible for pro-European policy that wiped out a carefully crafted coalition of self-employed and home owners. There's a reason that Ukip's emblem is a £. Instead of taking the blame himself, he blamed Italians, Germans and anyone but himself. The Tory party itself ended up tearing itself apart because of his egotism. Stop trying to offload the blame from it should lie.
Cameron looks like he is repeating Major's mistake.
Very likely a bomb or some other terror attack. ISIS "claiming responsibility"
What will this do to European security? Expect enormous queues at airports through the summer.
What will this do to French tourism? The plane took off from Paris. Unless it turns out this was a missile fired from a boat then ... eeesh.
I think a bomb or land-based firing is more likely. I am not an expert on these issues, so if Yokel is around, he can correct me, but AFAIK ground-to-air missiles that reach that altitude usually require multiple vehicles, including upward-looking radar. So it's unlikely all that would be easily packed onto a small boat.
Whatever the explanation, security in France has serious questions to answer if a bomb or bomber were aboard
Seems the plane veered left and right, wildly, before crashing - implying, heavily, that someone got to the pilot (unless it WAS the pilot) in the cockpit.
I thought all cockpits had doors locked, now?
Either way it must surely have been an inside job. A steward or a co-pilot. Someone able to get in there, evading security, and crash the bastard.
Hard to do anything about that. Don't allow Muslims to work on planes? Difficult if you're Egyptair.
Indeed, the flight changes sound like cockpit interference. I thought that was near impossible post 911 too.
Seems the plane veered left and right, wildly, before crashing - implying, heavily, that someone got to the pilot (unless it WAS the pilot) in the cockpit.
I thought all cockpits had doors locked, now?
Either way it must surely have been an inside job. A steward or a co-pilot. Someone able to get in there, evading security, and crash the bastard.
Hard to do anything about that. Don't allow Muslims to work on planes? Difficult if you're Egyptair.
Indeed, the flight changes sound like cockpit interference. I thought that was near impossible post 911 too.
The Germanwings bloke crashed the plane himself, though he waited till the other pilot vacated the cockpit.
Geoffrey Boycott "What an awful shot. It's shocking. England are getting themselves out. Compton is the only one who was got out. The rest are just playing airy-fairy. "
Mr. T, explosion damaging the engine/flight controls?
Against cockpit interference is that the German chap who flew into a mountain had to do it steadily over a long time, gradually decreasing the altitude (planes, I heard at the time, don't apparently allow for a deliberate nose dive). If the altitude had been gradually declining, presumably radar will reveal that.
Very likely a bomb or some other terror attack. ISIS "claiming responsibility"
What will this do to European security? Expect enormous queues at airports through the summer.
What will this do to French tourism? The plane took off from Paris. Unless it turns out this was a missile fired from a boat then ... eeesh.
I think a bomb or land-based firing is more likely. I am not an expert on these issues, so if Yokel is around, he can correct me, but AFAIK ground-to-air missiles that reach that altitude usually require multiple vehicles, including upward-looking radar. So it's unlikely all that would be easily packed onto a small boat.
But it was quite far from land, and over the sea?
The reports of it veering wildly sound more like a violent hijack than an explosion.
I'd be careful.
The Greek reports are radar returns which may well be from a breaking up aircraft - which send out apparently rapid changes of direction, but are just returns from larger chunks of the aircraft heading in different directions.
Whatever happened was sudden and catastrophic - with a hijacker there would usually be time to get out a distress message.
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Gosh, you really can't understand what happened in 1992, can you?
John Major was almost solely responsible for pro-European policy that wiped out a carefully crafted coalition of self-employed and home owners. There's a reason that Ukip's emblem is a £. Instead of taking the blame himself, he blamed Italians, Germans and anyone but himself. The Tory party itself ended up tearing itself apart because of his egotism. Stop trying to offload the blame from it should lie.
Rubbish. Gentleman John got us all the opt outs we could possibly expect: adoption of the euro and the Social Chapter. But IDS and his weird mates still insisted on humiliating the man, softening him up for Blair and New Labour to deliver the final, lethal blow. On any number of issues - not least Europe and Iraq - IDS was Blair's butler.
Seems the plane veered left and right, wildly, before crashing - implying, heavily, that someone got to the pilot (unless it WAS the pilot) in the cockpit.
I thought all cockpits had doors locked, now?
Either way it must surely have been an inside job. A steward or a co-pilot. Someone able to get in there, evading security, and crash the bastard.
Hard to do anything about that. Don't allow Muslims to work on planes? Difficult if you're Egyptair.
Indeed, the flight changes sound like cockpit interference. I thought that was near impossible post 911 too.
The direction changes given could be a red herring, as the radar tries to plot something disintegrating on the screen rather than being evidence of a fight for control. The transponder showed nothing amiss at all until it went dead.
British investigators the AAIB have offered assistance to Egypt, will probably work with the French on black box recovery as soon as possible.
Of all the things wrong with the BBC, it would be hard to argue that a shortage of gay people making and presenting programmes is one of them. As Andrew Marr observed a decade ago: ‘The BBC is not impartial or neutral. It’s a publicly funded, urban organisation with an abnormally large number of young people, ethnic minorities, and gay people. It has a liberal bias, not so much a party-political bias. It is better expressed as a cultural liberal bias.’
Why, then, is the government intent on making the BBC even more gay? In one of the less-reported sections of this week’s white paper on the future of the corporation, John Whittingdale lays down a target that 10 per cent of senior leadership roles at the BBC be filled by LGBT staff by 2020.
Very likely a bomb or some other terror attack. ISIS "claiming responsibility"
What will this do to European security? Expect enormous queues at airports through the summer.
What will this do to French tourism? The plane took off from Paris. Unless it turns out this was a missile fired from a boat then ... eeesh.
I think a bomb or land-based firing is more likely. I am not an expert on these issues, so if Yokel is around, he can correct me, but AFAIK ground-to-air missiles that reach that altitude usually require multiple vehicles, including upward-looking radar. So it's unlikely all that would be easily packed onto a small boat.
But it was quite far from land, and over the sea?
The reports of it veering wildly sound more like a violent hijack than an explosion.
I'd be careful.
The Greek reports are radar returns which may well be from a breaking up aircraft - which send out apparently rapid changes of direction, but are just returns from larger chunks of the aircraft heading in different directions.
Whatever happened was sudden and catastrophic - with a hijacker there would usually be time to get out a distress message.
Yes, quite possibly. I'm no expert.
Haaretz is reporting that the pilot suddenly stopped responding, minutes before he entered Egyptian airspace. And at this point the plane was still on its normal path
So maybe it was the pilot himself.... Who knows....
Apparently there is a 'dead spot' in transmissions from hand-off from Greek control to saying hello to Egyptian Control - so 10 minute gaps need not be suspicious.
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Gosh, you really can't understand what happened in 1992, can you?
John Major was almost solely responsible for pro-European policy that wiped out a carefully crafted coalition of self-employed and home owners. There's a reason that Ukip's emblem is a £. Instead of taking the blame himself, he blamed Italians, Germans and anyone but himself. The Tory party itself ended up tearing itself apart because of his egotism. Stop trying to offload the blame from it should lie.
Rubbish. Gentleman John got us all the opt outs we could possibly expect: adoption of the euro and the Social Chapter. But IDS and his weird mates still insisted on humiliating the man, softening him up for Blair and New Labour to deliver the final, lethal blow. On any number of issues - not least Europe and Iraq - IDS was Blair's butler.
Very likely a bomb or some other terror attack. ISIS "claiming responsibility"
What will this do to European security? Expect enormous queues at airports through the summer.
What will this do to French tourism? The plane took off from Paris. Unless it turns out this was a missile fired from a boat then ... eeesh.
I think a bomb or land-based firing is more likely. I am not an expert on these issues, so if Yokel is around, he can correct me, but AFAIK ground-to-air missiles that reach that altitude usually require multiple vehicles, including upward-looking radar. So it's unlikely all that would be easily packed onto a small boat.
But it was quite far from land, and over the sea?
The reports of it veering wildly sound more like a violent hijack than an explosion.
I'd be careful.
The Greek reports are radar returns which may well be from a breaking up aircraft - which send out apparently rapid changes of direction, but are just returns from larger chunks of the aircraft heading in different directions.
Whatever happened was sudden and catastrophic - with a hijacker there would usually be time to get out a distress message.
Yes, quite possibly. I'm no expert.
Haaretz is reporting that the pilot suddenly stopped responding, minutes before he entered Egyptian airspace. And at this point the plane was still on its normal path
So maybe it was the pilot himself.... Who knows....
The Germanwings pilot waited until the other pilot vacated the cockpit.
Very likely a bomb or some other terror attack. ISIS "claiming responsibility"
What will this do to European security? Expect enormous queues at airports through the summer.
What will this do to French tourism? The plane took off from Paris. Unless it turns out this was a missile fired from a boat then ... eeesh.
I think a bomb or land-based firing is more likely. I am not an expert on these issues, so if Yokel is around, he can correct me, but AFAIK ground-to-air missiles that reach that altitude usually require multiple vehicles, including upward-looking radar. So it's unlikely all that would be easily packed onto a small boat.
But it was quite far from land, and over the sea?
The reports of it veering wildly sound more like a violent hijack than an explosion.
I'd be careful.
The Greek reports are radar returns which may well be from a breaking up aircraft - which send out apparently rapid changes of direction, but are just returns from larger chunks of the aircraft heading in different directions.
Whatever happened was sudden and catastrophic - with a hijacker there would usually be time to get out a distress message.
Yes, quite possibly. I'm no expert.
Haaretz is reporting that the pilot suddenly stopped responding, minutes before he entered Egyptian airspace. And at this point the plane was still on its normal path
So maybe it was the pilot himself.... Who knows....
The Germanwings pilot waited until the other pilot vacated the cockpit.
I thought that since that incident airlines had forbid that now.
At around the same time AfD declared themselves an openly anti-Islam party saying that Islamic people are rolling back equality for men and women in Germany and are a threat to national security. They have begun campaigning on an openly anti-Islamic basis, they want no new Mosques built in Germany, no new Muslim immigrants and a repatriation of all recent migrants/refugees back to their home countries. In all other areas they are not fussed by immigration it seems.
Interestingly, Marion Marechel-Le Pen is pushing for a very similar change in the Front National, arguing that the EU should be at the forefront of fighting for Christian values.
Mr. T, explosion damaging the engine/flight controls?.
Again, unlikely to lead to an instantaneous loss of data transmission - whatever happened was catastrophic and it would appear, without warning.
But if it was a bomb that is extremely disquieting in terms of European airport security. It means ISIS/whoeever have found a new way to get bombs on planes, in big European cities - or a way to get bombs on planes in the Middle East which can then go undetected in France.
I find that hard to believe. Maybe because I don't WANT to believe.
TBH there are so many ways in which a bomb could be delivered onto a plane. All the screening of passengers is here nor there. You only need a handful of corrupted individuals in the correct roles.
Mr. T, explosion damaging the engine/flight controls?
Against cockpit interference is that the German chap who flew into a mountain had to do it steadily over a long time, gradually decreasing the altitude (planes, I heard at the time, don't apparently allow for a deliberate nose dive). If the altitude had been gradually declining, presumably radar will reveal that.
Long before that incident people were pointing out that securing the cockpit only helps keep bad guys out. If the bad guy gets into the cockpit by threat or subterfuge, or as in the Germanwings case they are already in the cockpit, then the security will prevent them from being stopped.
There's an old joke that one day planes will be so advanced that the flight crew will consist of a man and a dog. A dog to guard the controls from interference, and a man to feed the dog. But there's a lot of truth in that joke, human factors are some of the main weak points of airliner safety and security.
Mr. T, explosion damaging the engine/flight controls?
Against cockpit interference is that the German chap who flew into a mountain had to do it steadily over a long time, gradually decreasing the altitude (planes, I heard at the time, don't apparently allow for a deliberate nose dive). If the altitude had been gradually declining, presumably radar will reveal that.
pprune have got some photos from one of the S&R (check me out!) ships.
Mr. T, explosion damaging the engine/flight controls?.
Again, unlikely to lead to an instantaneous loss of data transmission - whatever happened was catastrophic and it would appear, without warning.
But if it was a bomb that is extremely disquieting in terms of European airport security. It means ISIS/whoeever have found a new way to get bombs on planes, in big European cities - or a way to get bombs on planes in the Middle East which can then go undetected in France.
I find that hard to believe. Maybe because I don't WANT to believe.
Yes, although its possible a bomb was smuggled aboard in Cairo or an earlier stop (tho unlikely...)
Tellingly Le Monde's knee jerk reaction was (the highly unlikely) 'missile from Libya or Syria'....
Very likely a bomb or some other terror attack. ISIS "claiming responsibility"
What will this do to European security? Expect enormous queues at airports through the summer.
What will this do to French tourism? The plane took off from Paris. Unless it turns out this was a missile fired from a boat then ... eeesh.
I think a bomb or land-based firing is more likely. I am not an expert on these issues, so if Yokel is around, he can correct me, but AFAIK ground-to-air missiles that reach that altitude usually require multiple vehicles, including upward-looking radar. So it's unlikely all that would be easily packed onto a small boat.
But it was quite far from land, and over the sea?
The reports of it veering wildly sound more like a violent hijack than an explosion.
I'd be careful.
The Greek reports are radar returns which may well be from a breaking up aircraft - which send out apparently rapid changes of direction, but are just returns from larger chunks of the aircraft heading in different directions.
Whatever happened was sudden and catastrophic - with a hijacker there would usually be time to get out a distress message.
Yes, quite possibly. I'm no expert.
Haaretz is reporting that the pilot suddenly stopped responding, minutes before he entered Egyptian airspace. And at this point the plane was still on its normal path
So maybe it was the pilot himself.... Who knows....
Apparently there is a 'dead spot' in transmissions from hand-off from Greek control to saying hello to Egyptian Control - so 10 minute gaps need not be suspicious.
We should all pray that it is a mad steward, jihadist co-pilot: the idea it was a bomb, on a plane which took off at CDGaulle, is just too scary.
Plus wouldn't they have picked LON - JFK or somesuch, if they could breach CDG security.
Edit: hahaha it's been a long day. I mean CDG - JFK
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Gosh, you really can't understand what happened in 1992, can you?
John Major was almost solely responsible for pro-European policy that wiped out a carefully crafted coalition of self-employed and home owners. There's a reason that Ukip's emblem is a £. Instead of taking the blame himself, he blamed Italians, Germans and anyone but himself. The Tory party itself ended up tearing itself apart because of his egotism. Stop trying to offload the blame from it should lie.
Rubbish. Gentleman John got us all the opt outs we could possibly expect: adoption of the euro and the Social Chapter. But IDS and his weird mates still insisted on humiliating the man, softening him up for Blair and New Labour to deliver the final, lethal blow. On any number of issues - not least Europe and Iraq - IDS was Blair's butler.
I love the fact you actually believe that rubbish
Blair owes more to IDS than he does to any other politician. IDS's wrecking of John Major's imaged paved the way to the 1997 landslide. As for the Iraq folly, it's not even that IDS's opposition to Blair was cr*p - he actually gave him his grovelling and unquestioning loyalty. 1997 and Iraq are the defining moments of Blair's career. IDS was chief enabler on both occasions.
Mr. T, explosion damaging the engine/flight controls?.
Again, unlikely to lead to an instantaneous loss of data transmission - whatever happened was catastrophic and it would appear, without warning.
But if it was a bomb that is extremely disquieting in terms of European airport security. It means ISIS/whoeever have found a new way to get bombs on planes, in big European cities - or a way to get bombs on planes in the Middle East which can then go undetected in France.
I find that hard to believe. Maybe because I don't WANT to believe.
It's also possible a bomb was planted in Egypt, but only successfully detonated (air pressure trigger?) on the return journey.
Sabotage in Egypt is also a possibility; again, you could probably ensure things shorted out, but you wouldn't know exactly when.
Bomb on plane in Paris is always possible, of course. Not every bag is X-rayed, and if you don't mind going down with the plane, then checking in a bomb might work. That said, if they were going to do that, I'm sure they'd have done it out of a secondary airport. Charles de Gaulle (assuming they flew from there) is much more security conscious than some other places.
Very likely a bomb or some other terror attack. ISIS "claiming responsibility"
What will this do to European security? Expect enormous queues at airports through the summer.
What will this do to French tourism? The plane took off from Paris. Unless it turns out this was a missile fired from a boat then ... eeesh.
I think a bomb or land-based firing is more likely. I am not an expert on these issues, so if Yokel is around, he can correct me, but AFAIK ground-to-air missiles that reach that altitude usually require multiple vehicles, including upward-looking radar. So it's unlikely all that would be easily packed onto a small boat.
But it was quite far from land, and over the sea?
The reports of it veering wildly sound more like a violent hijack than an explosion.
I'd be careful.
The Greek reports are radar returns which may well be from a breaking up aircraft - which send out apparently rapid changes of direction, but are just returns from larger chunks of the aircraft heading in different directions.
Whatever happened was sudden and catastrophic - with a hijacker there would usually be time to get out a distress message.
Yes, quite possibly. I'm no expert.
Haaretz is reporting that the pilot suddenly stopped responding, minutes before he entered Egyptian airspace. And at this point the plane was still on its normal path
So maybe it was the pilot himself.... Who knows....
Apparently there is a 'dead spot' in transmissions from hand-off from Greek control to saying hello to Egyptian Control - so 10 minute gaps need not be suspicious.
We should all pray that it is a mad steward, jihadist co-pilot: the idea it was a bomb, on a plane which took off at CDGaulle, is just too scary.
It need not have got on a CDG. If it was a bomb, it might have got on at Egypt and remained hidden until detonated. These busses tend to go backwards and forwards on the same route. There were stories a while back that security amongst ground crew wasn't great in Egypt.
Mr. T, explosion damaging the engine/flight controls?.
Again, unlikely to lead to an instantaneous loss of data transmission - whatever happened was catastrophic and it would appear, without warning.
But if it was a bomb that is extremely disquieting in terms of European airport security. It means ISIS/whoeever have found a new way to get bombs on planes, in big European cities - or a way to get bombs on planes in the Middle East which can then go undetected in France.
I find that hard to believe. Maybe because I don't WANT to believe.
TBH there are so many ways in which a bomb could be delivered onto a plane. All the screening of passengers is here nor there. You only need a handful of corrupted individuals in the correct roles.
Although, in that case, I'm not sure 66 passengers on an A320 to Cairo would have been my choice.
Mr. T, explosion damaging the engine/flight controls?.
Again, unlikely to lead to an instantaneous loss of data transmission - whatever happened was catastrophic and it would appear, without warning.
But if it was a bomb that is extremely disquieting in terms of European airport security. It means ISIS/whoeever have found a new way to get bombs on planes, in big European cities - or a way to get bombs on planes in the Middle East which can then go undetected in France.
I find that hard to believe. Maybe because I don't WANT to believe.
It's also possible a bomb was planted in Egypt, but only successfully detonated (air pressure trigger?) on the return journey.
Sabotage in Egypt is also a possibility; again, you could probably ensure things shorted out, but you wouldn't know exactly when.
Bomb on plane in Paris is always possible, of course. Not every bag is X-rayed, and if you don't mind going down with the plane, then checking in a bomb might work. That said, if they were going to do that, I'm sure they'd have done it out of a secondary airport. Charles de Gaulle (assuming they flew from there) is much more security conscious than some other places.
Wasn't that basically the bombs in printers plan that was foiled a number of years ago. Packaged in Africa and then injected into the international cargo system and sit back and watch it blow up planes somewhere in the world.
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Gosh, you really can't understand what happened in 1992, can you?
John Major was almost solely responsible for pro-European policy that wiped out a carefully crafted coalition of self-employed and home owners. There's a reason that Ukip's emblem is a £. Instead of taking the blame himself, he blamed Italians, Germans and anyone but himself. The Tory party itself ended up tearing itself apart because of his egotism. Stop trying to offload the blame from it should lie.
Rubbish. Gentleman John got us all the opt outs we could possibly expect: adoption of the euro and the Social Chapter. But IDS and his weird mates still insisted on humiliating the man, softening him up for Blair and New Labour to deliver the final, lethal blow. On any number of issues - not least Europe and Iraq - IDS was Blair's butler.
I love the fact you actually believe that rubbish
Blair owes more to IDS than he does to any other politician. IDS's wrecking of John Major's imaged paved the way to the 1997 landslide. As for the Iraq folly, it's not even that IDS's opposition to Blair was cr*p - he actually gave him his grovelling and unquestioning loyalty. 1997 and Iraq are the defining moments of Blair's career. IDS was chief enabler on both occasions.
The real kicker is Black Wednesday. Nobody remembered that the Labour Party wanted to enter the Exchange rate mechanism. The Tories were tires and in office for a long time, without a record of economic competence to run on they basically had nothing - they were seen to have achieved all they were going to on any other front.
Greek TV now reporting debris field sighted by airborne SAR crews.
I've just seen a tweet saying CNN are reporting a "fight in the cockpit"
But I can't see the actual CNN report, so caveat emptor
Sounds like CNN are adding up 2 and 2 to make 17, as they usually do when they don't understand what is actually happening or has happened.
Yes, we saw the same thing earlier when Bloomberg reported 'distress call from cockpit' which turned out to be 'distress call from automatic beacon'......
Greek TV now reporting debris field sighted by airborne SAR crews.
I've just seen a tweet saying CNN are reporting a "fight in the cockpit"
But I can't see the actual CNN report, so caveat emptor
Sounds like CNN are adding up 2 and 2 to make 17, as they usually do when they don't understand what is actually happening or has happened.
They have to make their hourly quota of "breaking news" flashing banners.
Don't start me!
If almost everything I hear about a complicated subject I actually understand (computers and aeroplanes in my case) is so obviously bollocks, then how's about the rest of the stuff, on which I rely on them to inform me?
Mr. T, explosion damaging the engine/flight controls?.
Again, unlikely to lead to an instantaneous loss of data transmission - whatever happened was catastrophic and it would appear, without warning.
But if it was a bomb that is extremely disquieting in terms of European airport security. It means ISIS/whoeever have found a new way to get bombs on planes, in big European cities - or a way to get bombs on planes in the Middle East which can then go undetected in France.
I find that hard to believe. Maybe because I don't WANT to believe.
TBH there are so many ways in which a bomb could be delivered onto a plane. All the screening of passengers is here nor there. You only need a handful of corrupted individuals in the correct roles.
Although, in that case, I'm not sure 66 passengers on an A320 to Cairo would have been my choice.
No agreed. Also, my first thought if you were a suicidal pilot not that far off landing, why not plough it into a highly populated city? Bomb smuggled into the cargo system would seem most logical as you wouldn't know only 66 people were going to be on the plane.
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Gosh, you really can't understand what happened in 1992, can you?
John Major was almost solely responsible for pro-European policy that wiped out a carefully crafted coalition of self-employed and home owners. There's a reason that Ukip's emblem is a £. Instead of taking the blame himself, he blamed Italians, Germans and anyone but himself. The Tory party itself ended up tearing itself apart because of his egotism. Stop trying to offload the blame from it should lie.
Rubbish. Gentleman John got us all the opt outs we could possibly expect: adoption of the euro and the Social Chapter. But IDS and his weird mates still insisted on humiliating the man, softening him up for Blair and New Labour to deliver the final, lethal blow. On any number of issues - not least Europe and Iraq - IDS was Blair's butler.
I love the fact you actually believe that rubbish
Blair owes more to IDS than he does to any other politician. IDS's wrecking of John Major's imaged paved the way to the 1997 landslide. As for the Iraq folly, it's not even that IDS's opposition to Blair was cr*p - he actually gave him his grovelling and unquestioning loyalty. 1997 and Iraq are the defining moments of Blair's career. IDS was chief enabler on both occasions.
Major destroyed his own image. He was responsible for the push to enter ERM and it is serendipity that he was in charge when that idiotic decision came back to destroy the Tory party for a decade or more.
Very likely a bomb or some other terror attack. ISIS "claiming responsibility"
What will this do to European security? Expect enormous queues at airports through the summer.
What will this do to French tourism? The plane took off from Paris. Unless it turns out this was a missile fired from a boat then ... eeesh.
I think a bomb or land-based firing is more likely. I am not an expert on these issues, so if Yokel is around, he can correct me, but AFAIK ground-to-air missiles that reach that altitude usually require multiple vehicles, including upward-looking radar. So it's unlikely all that would be easily packed onto a small boat.
But it was quite far from land, and over the sea?
The reports of it veering wildly sound more like a violent hijack than an explosion.
I'd be careful.
The Greek reports are radar returns which may well be from a breaking up aircraft - which send out apparently rapid changes of direction, but are just returns from larger chunks of the aircraft heading in different directions.
Whatever happened was sudden and catastrophic - with a hijacker there would usually be time to get out a distress message.
Yes, quite possibly. I'm no expert.
Haaretz is reporting that the pilot suddenly stopped responding, minutes before he entered Egyptian airspace. And at this point the plane was still on its normal path
So maybe it was the pilot himself.... Who knows....
Apparently there is a 'dead spot' in transmissions from hand-off from Greek control to saying hello to Egyptian Control - so 10 minute gaps need not be suspicious.
We should all pray that it is a mad steward, jihadist co-pilot: the idea it was a bomb, on a plane which took off at CDGaulle, is just too scary.
It need not have got on a CDG. If it was a bomb, it might have got on at Egypt and remained hidden until detonated. These busses tend to go backwards and forwards on the same route. There were stories a while back that security amongst ground crew wasn't great in Egypt.
That has to be the hope, that the problem is originating from Egypt. That way all Western airlines can boycot the place and the problem goes away.
If they could get through Paris security one assumes they would have chosen a better target then a small plane half empty going to Egypt, rather than say an A380 heading for JFK?
The more I see of Remainers, the more I think it would do them a power of good to be losers for once. They do seem all too often to express the views of people who have had life handed to them on a plate - and hate the notion of anything that would put that at risk...
I'm also an admirer of not repeating the same mistakes.
This is all very reminiscent of the Tory Eurosceptics voting in favour of the Social Chapter amendment back in 1993, and that turned out so well for them in 1997
Gosh, you really can't understand what happened in 1992, can you?
John Major was almost solely responsible for pro-European policy that wiped out a carefully crafted coalition of self-employed and home owners. There's a reason that Ukip's emblem is a £. Instead of taking the blame himself, he blamed Italians, Germans and anyone but himself. The Tory party itself ended up tearing itself apart because of his egotism. Stop trying to offload the blame from it should lie.
Rubbish. Gentleman John got us all the opt outs we could possibly expect: adoption of the euro and the Social Chapter. But IDS and his weird mates still insisted on humiliating the man, softening him up for Blair and New Labour to deliver the final, lethal blow. On any number of issues - not least Europe and Iraq - IDS was Blair's butler.
I love the fact you actually believe that rubbish
Blair owes more to IDS than he does to any other politician. IDS's wrecking of John Major's imaged paved the way to the 1997 landslide. As for the Iraq folly, it's not even that IDS's opposition to Blair was cr*p - he actually gave him his grovelling and unquestioning loyalty. 1997 and Iraq are the defining moments of Blair's career. IDS was chief enabler on both occasions.
Major had wrecked his image and that of the Conservative party over the ERM.
IDS had nothing to do with that nor would 1% of the electorate have known who IDS was in 1997.
If you want subsequent factors to the wrecking of the Conservative party's image in the 1990s then remember all the sleeze associated with it, its complacent arrogance from being in office too long, its hypocrisy (the 'back to basics' campaign) and its out of touch irrelevance (the traffic cones hotline etc).
And for your information Major never ruled out joining the Euro even after the ERM disaster - all he ever promised was not to join the Euro in 1996 or 1997 which was never a possibility.
Comments
(b) The European Union
Inshallah.
Erdogan is a [redacted]
Erdogan is a [redacted]
Erdogan is a [redacted]
And so's his mum.
Honestly, no talent that boy...
One cannot rule out the phone polls are wrong, the online trend is to Leave (so far) and an upset on the night.
A: they tell you.
"An EgyptAir flight from Paris to Cairo made two sharp turns before plunging into the Mediterranean Sea, Greece's defence minister says."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36333992
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/280447-clinton-world-criticism-of-bill-mind-boggling
Mind-bogglingly mind-boggling that Clinton World should think it's mind-boggling to criticize St Bill. Just how out of touch are they?
This time the amendment seems to be from the left, giving the NHS a veto over TTIP rather than cracking down on worker's rights or w/e the 1993 amendment was.
I'd imagine the amendment would command majority support in the country !
Mr. Viewcode, must agree. I tried to think of something for that competition (was under the impression the winner would be announced in June), and had one or two nice ideas (wanted to rhyme 'ISIS penetrated his Sublime Porte, he welcomed them into his inner court') but poetry isn't really my thing.
Also, Boris won't notice the £1,000 prize....
John Major had said he would never sign us up to the social chapter, so the eurosceptics thought it would be a good idea to derail the whole Maastricht vote by backing Labour's amendment, who were in favour of the social chapter.
Believe in BRITAIN
Be LEAVE!
John Major was almost solely responsible for pro-European policy that wiped out a carefully crafted coalition of self-employed and home owners. There's a reason that Ukip's emblem is a £. Instead of taking the blame himself, he blamed Italians, Germans and anyone but himself. The Tory party itself ended up tearing itself apart because of his egotism. Stop trying to offload the blame from it should lie.
Cameron looks like he is repeating Major's mistake.
Fatslogger • May 19, 2016 11:15 AM BST
Couldn't refuse more SL at 19s. I now have a comedy £10.5k green on them. Wickets please!
"What an awful shot. It's shocking. England are getting themselves out. Compton is the only one who was got out. The rest are just playing airy-fairy. "
Against cockpit interference is that the German chap who flew into a mountain had to do it steadily over a long time, gradually decreasing the altitude (planes, I heard at the time, don't apparently allow for a deliberate nose dive). If the altitude had been gradually declining, presumably radar will reveal that.
The Greek reports are radar returns which may well be from a breaking up aircraft - which send out apparently rapid changes of direction, but are just returns from larger chunks of the aircraft heading in different directions.
Whatever happened was sudden and catastrophic - with a hijacker there would usually be time to get out a distress message.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/733283679947132928
British investigators the AAIB have offered assistance to Egypt, will probably work with the French on black box recovery as soon as possible.
It also reports that debris and pieces of plastic were found.
"Do you ev a berm?"
Poor people, useless French, murderous bastards. I guess if you're stupid enough to believe in virgins in heaven you'll believe anything.
There's an old joke that one day planes will be so advanced that the flight crew will consist of a man and a dog. A dog to guard the controls from interference, and a man to feed the dog. But there's a lot of truth in that joke, human factors are some of the main weak points of airliner safety and security.
This one wasn't a problem with people in the cockpit, this was a plane that was flying straight and level until it suddenly very much wasn't.
Tellingly Le Monde's knee jerk reaction was (the highly unlikely) 'missile from Libya or Syria'....
Edit: hahaha it's been a long day. I mean CDG - JFK
Sabotage in Egypt is also a possibility; again, you could probably ensure things shorted out, but you wouldn't know exactly when.
Bomb on plane in Paris is always possible, of course. Not every bag is X-rayed, and if you don't mind going down with the plane, then checking in a bomb might work. That said, if they were going to do that, I'm sure they'd have done it out of a secondary airport. Charles de Gaulle (assuming they flew from there) is much more security conscious than some other places.
Clinton 54 .. Sanders 40
Clinton 45 .. Trump 38
Sanders 49 .. Trump 37
https://www.qu.edu/images/polling/nj/nj05192016_Nwh73tr.pdf
If almost everything I hear about a complicated subject I actually understand (computers and aeroplanes in my case) is so obviously bollocks, then how's about the rest of the stuff, on which I rely on them to inform me?
But obviously this is all just guess work.
NEW VAPID BILGE THREAD!
Clinton 46 .. Trump 42
http://c5.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/National - McLaughlin - 5-16-16 Presentation - NEW SPECIAL.pdf
If they could get through Paris security one assumes they would have chosen a better target then a small plane half empty going to Egypt, rather than say an A380 heading for JFK?
IDS had nothing to do with that nor would 1% of the electorate have known who IDS was in 1997.
If you want subsequent factors to the wrecking of the Conservative party's image in the 1990s then remember all the sleeze associated with it, its complacent arrogance from being in office too long, its hypocrisy (the 'back to basics' campaign) and its out of touch irrelevance (the traffic cones hotline etc).
And for your information Major never ruled out joining the Euro even after the ERM disaster - all he ever promised was not to join the Euro in 1996 or 1997 which was never a possibility.