Mr. Taffys, I missed that about the WEP and sharia, but thanks for mentioning it.
Miss Pinkrose, nothing says equality like being totally obedient to another human being because of gender.
If a women chooses to be obedient to her husband that is her choice. What business is it of yours, mine or anyone else's what happens in other people's marriages? Would you clutch your pearls over bdsm relationships, where one person chooses to be obedient to another?
Just live and let live. Muslims aren't saying you have to have the same kind of marriage as they do, so people should just mind their own business.
I see someone has invented time travel and has brought someone back from 952AD.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
Ruth is a goddess. That is all we know and all we need to know.
It's a long way off but how might the tories' Scottish boost translate into Westminster seats Mr L - an extra one or two?
Good chance of 3 more I would say. 2 more in the borders, one each side of Mundell and the Eastwood equivalent where the Labour vote will get squeezed even tighter now it is clear who the Unionist is. Edinburgh and Aberdeenshire look a lot trickier.
Miss Pinkrose, if it's an individual couple making a free choice, fair enough.
If a couple within a group (whether that's a religion or, to use your example, a fetish club) is socially/culturally obliged to follow the group's collective perspective on marriage, that's a different kettle of monkeys.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
Welsh Conservative members reported (on BBC Wales) as unhappy with Cameron over his referendum comments at the welsh Conservative AGM. Seen as unecessarily divisive.
moment Downing St believed could replace Lab as SNP opposition - when saw state of Scottish Labour's ground game inside Better Together
Hmm... Their complete lack of canvassing info in places like Dundee West was a serious disappointment but I heard several Labour people complain that the Better Together campaign was a job opportunity scheme in which Labour taught a new generation of Tories how to win elections and there was enough truth in that to hurt.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
The people who vote for them in droves are increasingly the people who want women to be second class citizens. That's Labour's problem.
Welsh Conservative members reported (on BBC Wales) as unhappy with Cameron over his referendum comments at the welsh Conservative AGM. Seen as unecessarily divisive.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
The people who vote for them in droves are increasingly the people who want women to be second class citizens. That's Labour's problem.
Evidence please? Or is this the usual 'fruitcake' propaganda that is spouted out on right-wing blogs like this...
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
I do love the moralising of the right...
Anyway. If a woman wants to wear the Hijab then great. If a woman feels she has no choice but to wear one thats wrong. I am supportive of cultural rules and preferences where they are by choice - whether thats orthodox Jews wearing black or women in a burkha or BA check-in staff wearing a crucifix.
But not where its forced and especially not where a patriach demands it. This is Britain. People are free to religious expression but not free to dump basic human rights.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
The people who vote for them in droves are increasingly the people who want women to be second class citizens. That's Labour's problem.
Given the women get postal votes - and aren't allowed to leave the house unchaperoned to post them, I doubt if they're participating in democracy at all.
Can someone please tell me where the SCON surge came from ? It seems to me to have happened over night after years of either flatlining or going backwards.
The explanations that Scotland wanted an effective opposition doesn't make sense considering Labour were second in most seats. I mean tories now second in Clydesdale is that normal?
You think that the desire for an effective opposition didn't make sense? Have you ever heard Scottish Labour? Idiocies liked the Named Person legislation were forced through the Parliament when they were sleepwalking and only the Tories were making a fuss. The message we needed an opposition who, you know, actually oppose was very powerful.
@KennyFarq: In any negotiations, Greens will want concessions on tax and fracking. My gut feeling is these may a price Nicola is unwilling to pay.
Going to be hilarious when the fracking starts
Nicola should put the Green's Andy Wightman in charge of land reform legislation and watch the Tory landowners, big farmers and secret offshore-registered company owners squirm.
PS - just hope the anti-SNP alliance riposte isn't another poison pill a la the Edinburgh Trams fiasco!
A sure fire way of further depressing Scottish growth over the Uk. Come to Scotland and we will steal your assets.
Nobody is talking about stealing anything - the very limited community buyouts are a tiny proportion of overall holdings. What is proposed is open and transparent ownership and productive management for the good of the whole country.
Just to say, it appears there has been a small swing TO LABOUR in England compared to this point in the last parliament (2011).
That points to a hung parliament in 2020. I'm sure the Tories will carry on being obliviously complacent though.
#rattled
Except I was one of the most pessimistic Labourites on PB in the run-up to the 2015 election
While these results are hardly spectacular for Labour, they simply do not AT ALL support the theory that 2020 is going to be a walkover for the Tories. Remember, they barely scraped over the majority line last year, and they now look to have deteriorated since this point in the last parliament.
no comment needed really. mainly cos I'm knackered.
There will be quite a few hundred Conservative candidates wondering "what if" today about the timing and opening up of splits inside the party by Cameron and Osborne which dominated the local campaigns. The recent ConHome survey largely blames Cameron for the division. IMHO if he had either waited until after these results or not fronted the referendum campaign, we would have been staring at a major crisis for the Labour party having lost hundreds of councillors - and possibly a few more AMs in Wales. Ironically Cameron and Osborne's blunder may have staved off the day of departure for Corbyn.
Are people voting more for personalities than policies nowadays?
If voters don't read newspapers anymore nor take the trouble to search out what the party policies are then they will make a judgement on the brief TV appearances of party leaders.
Would that explain the rise of Conservatives in Scotland because Ruth Davidson comes across better than Kezia Dugdale regadless of policies?
"OT One of the most significant political events of the last 24 hours was Nigel Lawson's claim on Question Time that a vote for 'Remain' would mean 77 million Turks flooding into this country."
It's a battle to see who can make the daftest claim.
And what's wrong with 77 million Turks coming? Think of the boost to GDP and the millions of jobs created. I hope you're not a racist.
That reminds me ... was the 3 million jobs lost claim based on the loss of immigration which might occur? If not, Remain have missed a trick. If leaving would cost 77 million more people then they could count in the loss of GDP in their figures.
Ah. bless.
There's an appalling story of female subjugation in the Times - edicts from Blackburn mosque. This stuff needs stamping out. I await anything being done about it.
"I await anything being done about it" Probably when hell freezes over.
"appalling story of female subjugation"
LOL what?
Advising women not to wear pants, obey their husbands and dont travel more than 48miles without a male chaperone is female subjugation????? Even if women want and agree with such advice? If the 3 east london schoolgirls abided by this they wouldnt have travelled thousands of miles to join the isis in syria!!
Subjugation: To make subordinate or subject to the dominion of something else.
Someone telling others what to wear, where to travel, and to obey someone else is, by definition, subjugation.
I am not subjugating you if I tell you to wear a pink hat. I am only subjugating you if I make you do it.
But if culturally I am expected to follow your pronouncements, then that is effectively making someone do it.
Quite. If so eons chooses to be so obedient it is in theory fine if depressing, but there can be all manner of ways someone is coerced into specific behaviours and has less choice than it seems.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
I do love the moralising of the right...
Anyway. If a woman wants to wear the Hijab then great. If a woman feels she has no choice but to wear one thats wrong. I am supportive of cultural rules and preferences where they are by choice - whether thats orthodox Jews wearing black or women in a burkha or BA check-in staff wearing a crucifix.
But not where its forced and especially not where a patriach demands it. This is Britain. People are free to religious expression but not free to dump basic human rights.
If a woman wants to wear clothes then great. If a woman feels she has no choice but to wear clothes that's wrong.
If you are brought up that it is both meet and proper to where one then where's your free choice?
The latest set of PMI figures seem to show that the rate of growth of UK economy is slowing, in some sectors quite sharply. If that trend continues we will be in recession possibly in early 2017, which would fit with the long term trend - the UK tends to have recession every ten years or so. If that happens the politics of it will be very interesting.
Osborne's credibility would surely be finally blown out of the water, putting paid to his leadership ambitions, and more generally the Conservative reputation for economic competence would again take a nasty knock. Whether Labour will be capable of taking advantage of the situation I am not so sure, but I suspect that, depending on the depth and duration of the recession, Conservative hopes of another majority will prove forlorn.
There will be quite a few hundred Conservative candidates wondering "what if" today about the timing and opening up of splits inside the party by Cameron and Osborne which dominated the local campaigns. The recent ConHome survey largely blames Cameron for the division. IMHO if he had either waited until after these results or not fronted the referendum campaign, we would have been staring at a major crisis for the Labour party having lost hundreds of councillors - and possibly a few more AMs in Wales. Ironically Cameron and Osborne's blunder may have staved off the day of departure for Corbyn.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
whats the alternative? how are you going to enforce some mythical "equality" that Islamophobes use as a metaphorical stick to beat Muslims with? Do you really want the state to interfere in people's marriages? why do you assume that muslim women are weak?
Gender segregation is a fundamental part of Islam because of it's strict moral codes. Its not extremism its mainstream Islam. Trevor Philips was 100% accurate when he said Islam will not change and Muslims are different to other minority groups and they will never "integrate" in the way you want them to. Just accept it and live and let live.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
I do love the moralising of the right...
Anyway. If a woman wants to wear the Hijab then great. If a woman feels she has no choice but to wear one thats wrong. I am supportive of cultural rules and preferences where they are by choice - whether thats orthodox Jews wearing black or women in a burkha or BA check-in staff wearing a crucifix.
But not where its forced and especially not where a patriach demands it. This is Britain. People are free to religious expression but not free to dump basic human rights.
You don't see any difference between someone wearing a crucifix or turban and the burqa? The latter is clearly very different. Doesn't mean people should be pilloried for wearing it but I think there are certain situations where it should be banned, such as schools.
I am amazed how these results are somehow being spun as positive for Labour. On national issues at a general election, they will be slaughtered. Oh well - as long as the members are happy.
They are probably better in England for Labour than the 2011 results - the equivalent point in the last Parliament.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
The people who vote for them in droves are increasingly the people who want women to be second class citizens. That's Labour's problem.
Evidence please? Or is this the usual 'fruitcake' propaganda that is spouted out on right-wing blogs like this...
What is the evidence for the claim this is a right wing blog?
Has Our Genial Host switched allegiance away from Lib Dem to Conservative?
It's nice to read all those articles about the SNP being past its peak and having to concentrate on bread and butter subjects, a mere five months after I wrote this:
"In the longer term, with Holyrood assuming a steadily increasing importance in decision-making in Scotland, the Scottish public are going to become increasingly concerned with pocket book decisions when voting in Holyrood elections. The next Scottish government is going to have bigger decisions to take and bigger decisions lead to more disaffected voters. The SNP has successfully for many years positioned itself as a party for all Scotland. That time may well be drawing to a close in the next couple of years."
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
whats the alternative? how are you going to enforce some mythical "equality" that Islamophobes use as a metaphorical stick to beat Muslims with? Do you really want the state to interfere in people's marriages? why do you assume that muslim women are weak?
Gender segregation is a fundamental part of Islam because of it's strict moral codes. Its not extremism its mainstream Islam. Trevor Philips was 100% accurate when he said Islam will not change and Muslims are different to other minority groups and they will never "integrate" in the way you want them to. Just accept it and live and let live.
If that actually were the case then it has no place in Britain.
I do not actually accept your definitions so and do consider gender segregation to be extremism. It doesn't matter whether it is mainstream islam or not, it is extremist as far as what is acceptable in British society. We should not change our rules and our societal norms to tolerate religious extremism.
So 7 seats for UKIP in W Assembly - Labour largest party but 2 seats short of majority
Mark Reckless and Hamilton in the Welsh Assembly - you couldn't make it up
I enjoyed the tweet saying someone ought to celebrate Neil Hamilton's political resurrection by writing a musical about a politician called "Hamilton."
There will be quite a few hundred Conservative candidates wondering "what if" today about the timing and opening up of splits inside the party by Cameron and Osborne which dominated the local campaigns. The recent ConHome survey largely blames Cameron for the division. IMHO if he had either waited until after these results or not fronted the referendum campaign, we would have been staring at a major crisis for the Labour party having lost hundreds of councillors - and possibly a few more AMs in Wales. Ironically Cameron and Osborne's blunder may have staved off the day of departure for Corbyn.
Hodges called this 'Cameron's bespoke result'.
But, caused great harm inside his party. There is also no guarantee that Corbyn will not stand down and a stronger person chosen. There are several years still left.
Re: Scotland - in the north-east around the Aberdeenshire west gain the Tories are second in nearly every seat and most would be winnable if the SNP falter over the next 4 years. The performance is really quite remarkable and even more so against the background of difficult economic times and the divisions over Europe.
If you are brought up that it is both meet and proper to where one then where's your free choice?
Except in a few clinical cases the underlying assumption of law is to assume you have free choice and not get into an argument about environment vs conditioning etc. Otherwise whenever you signed a contract you'd have to tick a box saying "I was not brought up to think that anything related to this contract is meet and proper".
Re: Scotland - in the north-east around the Aberdeenshire west gain the Tories are second in nearly every seat and most would be winnable if the SNP falter over the next 4 years. The performance is really quite remarkable and even more so against the background of difficult economic times and the divisions over Europe.
SNP failed at the expectations game.
So did Labour but, by fluke, they've got away with it as they've done well enough for no one to notice.
The Tories will naturally draw attention to their Scottish result.
Mr. Taffys, I missed that about the WEP and sharia, but thanks for mentioning it.
Miss Pinkrose, nothing says equality like being totally obedient to another human being because of gender.
If a women chooses to be obedient to her husband that is her choice. What business is it of yours, mine or anyone else's what happens in other people's marriages? Would you clutch your pearls over bdsm relationships, where one person chooses to be obedient to another?
Just live and let live. Muslims aren't saying you have to have the same kind of marriage as they do, so people should just mind their own business.
I was re-elected to my council seat last night and almost doubled my majority. Very relieved as the Tories were working so hard and the ward was lost badly last year. Tories were targeting 6 gains (3 from Lab, 3 from LD and lost every one.
Seems like green shoots for Lib Dems but still desert areas where local party has disappeared, but this is the first election night in a long time that hasn't been crushing,so I guess that's progress.
Hope other Peebies who've been up for election have done well.
Mr. Taffys, I missed that about the WEP and sharia, but thanks for mentioning it.
Miss Pinkrose, nothing says equality like being totally obedient to another human being because of gender.
If a women chooses to be obedient to her husband that is her choice. What business is it of yours, mine or anyone else's what happens in other people's marriages? Would you clutch your pearls over bdsm relationships, where one person chooses to be obedient to another?
Just live and let live. Muslims aren't saying you have to have the same kind of marriage as they do, so people should just mind their own business.
I was re-elected to my council seat last night and almost doubled my majority. Very relived as the Tories were working so hard and the ward was lost badly last year. Tories were targeting 6 gains (3 from Lab, 3 from LD and lost every one.
Seems like green shoots for Lib Dems but still desert areas where local party has disappeared, but this is the first election night in a long time that hasn't been crushing,so I guess that's progress.
Hope other Peebies who've been up for electron have done well.
A possible lesson for the Conservatives from the Scottish revival is that Cameron's successor should be someone to whom non-traditional supporters can relate, and if possible someone younger than most of the obvious candidates.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
whats the alternative? how are you going to enforce some mythical "equality" that Islamophobes use as a metaphorical stick to beat Muslims with? Do you really want the state to interfere in people's marriages? why do you assume that muslim women are weak?
Gender segregation is a fundamental part of Islam because of it's strict moral codes. Its not extremism its mainstream Islam. Trevor Philips was 100% accurate when he said Islam will not change and Muslims are different to other minority groups and they will never "integrate" in the way you want them to. Just accept it and live and let live.
"Gender segregation is a fundamental part of Islam because of it's strict moral codes."
But, presumably, this strict moral code has not been applied in Cologne, Rotherham, Rochdale, Malmo and mant 1000s of other instances.
Re: Scotland - in the north-east around the Aberdeenshire west gain the Tories are second in nearly every seat and most would be winnable if the SNP falter over the next 4 years. The performance is really quite remarkable and even more so against the background of difficult economic times and the divisions over Europe.
SNP failed at the expectations game.
So did Labour but, by fluke, they've got away with it as they've done well enough for no one to notice.
The Tories will naturally draw attention to their Scottish result.
Which I still can't believe.
You also see a similar pattern in the seats to the north of the 'border blue' zone. On another note I watched the BBC coverage this time - previously I only had access to Sky. Sadly, the anti-Tory bias was only too evident for too much of the time from presenter to pundit. Very disappointing.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
whats the alternative? how are you going to enforce some mythical "equality" that Islamophobes use as a metaphorical stick to beat Muslims with? Do you really want the state to interfere in people's marriages? why do you assume that muslim women are weak?
Gender segregation is a fundamental part of Islam because of it's strict moral codes. Its not extremism its mainstream Islam. Trevor Philips was 100% accurate when he said Islam will not change and Muslims are different to other minority groups and they will never "integrate" in the way you want them to. Just accept it and live and let live.
If that actually were the case then it has no place in Britain.
I do not actually accept your definitions so and do consider gender segregation to be extremism. It doesn't matter whether it is mainstream islam or not, it is extremist as far as what is acceptable in British society. We should not change our rules and our societal norms to tolerate religious extremism.
I agree, but doesn't that also apply to golf clubs etc that refuse to allow women members?
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
The people who vote for them in droves are increasingly the people who want women to be second class citizens. That's Labour's problem.
Evidence please? Or is this the usual 'fruitcake' propaganda that is spouted out on right-wing blogs like this...
What is the evidence for the claim this is a right wing blog?
Has Our Genial Host switched allegiance away from Lib Dem to Conservative?
What I meant to say is that the comments section is very-right. Our Genial Host is always first-class and he talks a LOT of sense.
It would interesting to note the political leaning of the various posters but there is a significant right-wing wing bias.
Anywhere showing the actual % of London assembly votes verified by party - and I do not mean that graph without a scale (designed probably by a Lib Dem)?
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
whats the alternative? how are you going to enforce some mythical "equality" that Islamophobes use as a metaphorical stick to beat Muslims with? Do you really want the state to interfere in people's marriages? why do you assume that muslim women are weak?
Gender segregation is a fundamental part of Islam because of it's strict moral codes. Its not extremism its mainstream Islam. Trevor Philips was 100% accurate when he said Islam will not change and Muslims are different to other minority groups and they will never "integrate" in the way you want them to. Just accept it and live and let live.
If that actually were the case then it has no place in Britain.
I do not actually accept your definitions so and do consider gender segregation to be extremism. It doesn't matter whether it is mainstream islam or not, it is extremist as far as what is acceptable in British society. We should not change our rules and our societal norms to tolerate religious extremism.
The clash between these two cultures is unavoidable in the UK and Labour's attitude here is both deplorable and tragic at the same time.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
whats the alternative? how are you going to enforce some mythical "equality" that Islamophobes use as a metaphorical stick to beat Muslims with? Do you really want the state to interfere in people's marriages? why do you assume that muslim women are weak?
Gender segregation is a fundamental part of Islam because of it's strict moral codes. Its not extremism its mainstream Islam. Trevor Philips was 100% accurate when he said Islam will not change and Muslims are different to other minority groups and they will never "integrate" in the way you want them to. Just accept it and live and let live.
If that actually were the case then it has no place in Britain.
I do not actually accept your definitions so and do consider gender segregation to be extremism. It doesn't matter whether it is mainstream islam or not, it is extremist as far as what is acceptable in British society. We should not change our rules and our societal norms to tolerate religious extremism.
I agree, but doesn't that also apply to golf clubs etc that refuse to allow women members?
Is that still common among golf clubs? (I have no idea of the answer, other than remembering hearing bits and piece of lots of the famous clubs have changed their rules FINALLY).
I was re-elected to my council seat last night and almost doubled my majority. Very relieved as the Tories were working so hard and the ward was lost badly last year. Tories were targeting 6 gains (3 from Lab, 3 from LD and lost every one.
Seems like green shoots for Lib Dems but still desert areas where local party has disappeared, but this is the first election night in a long time that hasn't been crushing,so I guess that's progress.
Hope other Peebies who've been up for election have done well.
Re: Scotland - in the north-east around the Aberdeenshire west gain the Tories are second in nearly every seat and most would be winnable if the SNP falter over the next 4 years. The performance is really quite remarkable and even more so against the background of difficult economic times and the divisions over Europe.
It was the same across Angus and into Perthshire. Big swings against the SNP but not enough to topple what had been very large majorities. This was on a brilliant night for the Tories which they might struggle to repeat but there is a significant swathe of long ex Tory seats in which they are once again well placed to gain if the SNP trip up substantially.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
I do love the moralising of the right...
Anyway. If a woman wants to wear the Hijab then great. If a woman feels she has no choice but to wear one thats wrong. I am supportive of cultural rules and preferences where they are by choice - whether thats orthodox Jews wearing black or women in a burkha or BA check-in staff wearing a crucifix.
But not where its forced and especially not where a patriach demands it. This is Britain. People are free to religious expression but not free to dump basic human rights.
If a woman wants to wear clothes then great. If a woman feels she has no choice but to wear clothes that's wrong.
If you are brought up that it is both meet and proper to where one then where's your free choice?
When I lived in Brum in the 80s in a strongly Moslem area (Sparkbrook) you literally never saw women in hijabs or burqas. Now it is common. That says to me it is a cultural choice much more than the result of repressive societal pressure. The interesting and worrying issue is why such choices are being made.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
whats the alternative? how are you going to enforce some mythical "equality" that Islamophobes use as a metaphorical stick to beat Muslims with? Do you really want the state to interfere in people's marriages? why do you assume that muslim women are weak?
Gender segregation is a fundamental part of Islam because of it's strict moral codes. Its not extremism its mainstream Islam. Trevor Philips was 100% accurate when he said Islam will not change and Muslims are different to other minority groups and they will never "integrate" in the way you want them to. Just accept it and live and let live.
If that actually were the case then it has no place in Britain.
I do not actually accept your definitions so and do consider gender segregation to be extremism. It doesn't matter whether it is mainstream islam or not, it is extremist as far as what is acceptable in British society. We should not change our rules and our societal norms to tolerate religious extremism.
It doesn't matter whether you say Islam has no place in Britain, it's here and its not going anywhere.
And who exactly gets to decide "our rules and societal norms"? Muslims who are born and raised in Britain can live by their own social rules as long as they dont break the law. They too are British and will not have norms imposed on them that are not compliant with Islam, their faith.
A possible lesson for the Conservatives from the Scottish revival is that Cameron's successor should be someone to whom non-traditional supporters can relate, and if possible someone younger than most of the obvious candidates.
Lucy Fisher was funny on Sky earlier - she said Ruth wasn't pale/male/stale and she swore a lot.
Just to say, it appears there has been a small swing TO LABOUR in England compared to this point in the last parliament (2011).
That points to a hung parliament in 2020. I'm sure the Tories will carry on being obliviously complacent though.
#rattled
Except I was one of the most pessimistic Labourites on PB in the run-up to the 2015 election
While these results are hardly spectacular for Labour, they simply do not AT ALL support the theory that 2020 is going to be a walkover for the Tories. Remember, they barely scraped over the majority line last year, and they now look to have deteriorated since this point in the last parliament.
There's a difference between "walkover" and "win".
Even Corbyn is talking of "holding on". Benn says there's a long way to go, etc, etc.
What do you define as "win"? The Tories are still favourites to be biggest party, but the swing from 2011 points to a hung parliament with the Tories having to rely on the Lib Dems or Northern Ireland parties to survive.
Of course we could also go back to the 1959 Parliament , and point out that despite having already been in power for 9/10 years the Tories managed to make significant gains from Labour at the local elections of 1960 and 1961. Despite that , Labour did win the 1964 election!
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
whats the alternative? how are you going to enforce some mythical "equality" that Islamophobes use as a metaphorical stick to beat Muslims with? Do you really want the state to interfere in people's marriages? why do you assume that muslim women are weak?
Gender segregation is a fundamental part of Islam because of it's strict moral codes. Its not extremism its mainstream Islam. Trevor Philips was 100% accurate when he said Islam will not change and Muslims are different to other minority groups and they will never "integrate" in the way you want them to. Just accept it and live and let live.
Yes - we do accept that the state should interfere in people's marriages when, for instance, a husband rapes his wife or beats her or exercises excessive control (see, for instance, the latest Archers storyline or the posters all round Camden saying that this a crime and people should not put up with it) or prevents her exercising her rights as a British citizen.
And there is no reason on earth why these laws should not be applied to people just because they are Muslim.
Some Muslims may not want to integrate - but when you live in a country you have obligations towards it - not just rights and the question is not just what Muslims want but what the effect of what they want and how they live has on the rest of us and the social cohesion of our society.
So - no to live and let live with behaviours which are criminal or hostile to or incompatible with British values.
Lds look pretty dead to me. Can win the occasional council seat, maybe carve out minor strongholds in s otland say, but nothing large, nothing wide or deep, not in this decade and probably the next.
Most places they are nowhere, and the exceptions seek like unusual points of light amidst the darkness.
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
The people who vote for them in droves are increasingly the people who want women to be second class citizens. That's Labour's problem.
Evidence please? Or is this the usual 'fruitcake' propaganda that is spouted out on right-wing blogs like this...
What is the evidence for the claim this is a right wing blog?
Has Our Genial Host switched allegiance away from Lib Dem to Conservative?
What I meant to say is that the comments section is very-right. Our Genial Host is always first-class and he talks a LOT of sense.
It would interesting to note the political leaning of the various posters but there is a significant right-wing wing bias.
With the referendum the LD and Labour REMAINers have become more pro Cameron in their posts so that may give the "moreright wing" impression. Quite why opponents to the Conservatives would be encouraging Cameron in banging on and on about Europe is a puzzle?.....
Interesting to see left wingers down thread saying we should take a "live and let live" approach to women being second class citizens in their own homes. How far the left has fallen.
And yet people still vote for them in droves. Rather depressing.
I do love the moralising of the right...
Anyway. If a woman wants to wear the Hijab then great. If a woman feels she has no choice but to wear one thats wrong. I am supportive of cultural rules and preferences where they are by choice - whether thats orthodox Jews wearing black or women in a burkha or BA check-in staff wearing a crucifix.
But not where its forced and especially not where a patriach demands it. This is Britain. People are free to religious expression but not free to dump basic human rights.
If a woman wants to wear clothes then great. If a woman feels she has no choice but to wear clothes that's wrong.
If you are brought up that it is both meet and proper to where one then where's your free choice?
When I lived in Brum in the 80s in a strongly Moslem area (Sparkbrook) you literally never saw women in hijabs or burqas. Now it is common. That says to me it is a cultural choice much more than the result of repressive societal pressure. The interesting and worrying issue is why such choices are being made.
Is it? Or is it immigration from different countries / areas? e.g. in the 80's, I am guessing there were virtually no Somali's in the UK. Now in some cities e.g. Bristol, there is a significant population and from what I understand it is women from that community that you will see covered up, wanting single sex only this and that, not those from say Pakistani origins.
A possible lesson for the Conservatives from the Scottish revival is that Cameron's successor should be someone to whom non-traditional supporters can relate, and if possible someone younger than most of the obvious candidates.
Spot on - but that is the kind of 'naughty' comment liable to rile quite a few regulars on here
Comments
If a couple within a group (whether that's a religion or, to use your example, a fetish club) is socially/culturally obliged to follow the group's collective perspective on marriage, that's a different kettle of monkeys.
What does it mean, scott?
How can the odds be 100% accurate if the favourite lost in 40% of the constituencies?
@GuardianAnushka: One Labour MP (group: hostile) told me they hoped that Sadiq would win so he would be an "alternative leadership" figure.
LDem gain 2 from Labour
Anyway. If a woman wants to wear the Hijab then great. If a woman feels she has no choice but to wear one thats wrong. I am supportive of cultural rules and preferences where they are by choice - whether thats orthodox Jews wearing black or women in a burkha or BA check-in staff wearing a crucifix.
But not where its forced and especially not where a patriach demands it. This is Britain. People are free to religious expression but not free to dump basic human rights.
There's a vast yawning chasm between an act that's voluntary, and act that's forced. It's the difference between euthanasia and murder.
If voters don't read newspapers anymore nor take the trouble to search out what the party policies are then they will make a judgement on the brief TV appearances of party leaders.
Would that explain the rise of Conservatives in Scotland because Ruth Davidson comes across better than Kezia Dugdale regadless of policies?
If you are brought up that it is both meet and proper to where one then where's your free choice?
Osborne's credibility would surely be finally blown out of the water, putting paid to his leadership ambitions, and more generally the Conservative reputation for economic competence would again take a nasty knock. Whether Labour will be capable of taking advantage of the situation I am not so sure, but I suspect that, depending on the depth and duration of the recession, Conservative hopes of another majority will prove forlorn.
how are you going to enforce some mythical "equality" that Islamophobes use as a metaphorical stick to beat Muslims with?
Do you really want the state to interfere in people's marriages?
why do you assume that muslim women are weak?
Gender segregation is a fundamental part of Islam because of it's strict moral codes. Its not extremism its mainstream Islam. Trevor Philips was 100% accurate when he said Islam will not change and Muslims are different to other minority groups and they will never "integrate" in the way you want them to. Just accept it and live and let live.
https://www.facebook.com/MrJohnRentoul/posts/1617433581913124
Has Our Genial Host switched allegiance away from Lib Dem to Conservative?
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/12/10/turning-on-taxes-the-tectonic-plates-of-scotlands-politics-are-moving/
"In the longer term, with Holyrood assuming a steadily increasing importance in decision-making in Scotland, the Scottish public are going to become increasingly concerned with pocket book decisions when voting in Holyrood elections. The next Scottish government is going to have bigger decisions to take and bigger decisions lead to more disaffected voters. The SNP has successfully for many years positioned itself as a party for all Scotland. That time may well be drawing to a close in the next couple of years."
I do not actually accept your definitions so and do consider gender segregation to be extremism. It doesn't matter whether it is mainstream islam or not, it is extremist as far as what is acceptable in British society. We should not change our rules and our societal norms to tolerate religious extremism.
@janinegibson: Don’t give us your “Sky News innocent face”… it’s too bloody late now. https://t.co/8pyqWQQWJS
Labour HQ sighing: "You did Ken."
Ken: "You sure? Damn." https://t.co/4TRJSeEMgg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-36220568?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2016/councils&link_location=live-reporting-story
So did Labour but, by fluke, they've got away with it as they've done well enough for no one to notice.
The Tories will naturally draw attention to their Scottish result.
Which I still can't believe.
Seems like green shoots for Lib Dems but still desert areas where local party has disappeared, but this is the first election night in a long time that hasn't been crushing,so I guess that's progress.
Hope other Peebies who've been up for election have done well.
But, presumably, this strict moral code has not been applied in Cologne, Rotherham, Rochdale, Malmo and mant 1000s of other instances.
It would interesting to note the political leaning of the various posters but there is a significant right-wing wing bias.
She seems very feisty, and bloody loyal to him, always sticks up for him.
I remember when Angus Deayton had his difficulties on HIGNFY, he introduced her as 'the wife of disgraced former Tory MP Neil Hamilton'
she replied with
'If he's disgraced, what are you?'
And who exactly gets to decide "our rules and societal norms"? Muslims who are born and raised in Britain can live by their own social rules as long as they dont break the law. They too are British and will not have norms imposed on them that are not compliant with Islam, their faith.
I've long suspected that you're a plastic prod (whilst retaining the authentic bigotry of course).
'Bungling Jack Cooper coated Light Blues boozer the Louden Tavern, in Glasgow’s east end, in the colours of rivals Celtic, below.'
http://tinyurl.com/z5cz43y
Yes - we do accept that the state should interfere in people's marriages when, for instance, a husband rapes his wife or beats her or exercises excessive control (see, for instance, the latest Archers storyline or the posters all round Camden saying that this a crime and people should not put up with it) or prevents her exercising her rights as a British citizen.
And there is no reason on earth why these laws should not be applied to people just because they are Muslim.
Some Muslims may not want to integrate - but when you live in a country you have obligations towards it - not just rights and the question is not just what Muslims want but what the effect of what they want and how they live has on the rest of us and the social cohesion of our society.
So - no to live and let live with behaviours which are criminal or hostile to or incompatible with British values.
Most places they are nowhere, and the exceptions seek like unusual points of light amidst the darkness.
Whichever can get Ken to say Hitler quickest wins