On topic, I think Michael Gove or Theresa May are in pole position.
That's whom I'm betting on, for now, amongst a number of longer shots.
Gove has publicly stated that he doesn't want the top job. That need not in itself be a problem ("don't seek the office but if persuaded by one's friends that it is the best way I can serve" and all that crap). However he also at the same time publicly stated that he knew he did not have the attributes and skills required of a party leader, let alone a PM. That has to be fatal. Even if you believe that he was lying in the first part how does he overcome the second? "I know I said, I'd be useless at the job but I want you to give it to me anyway" - it doesn't and can't work.
@L_Springthorpe: Secretary of Croydon Labour Party says Livingstone's comments describing Hitler as a Zionist,were "largely accurate" https://t.co/MhpFxNEDJp
no sireee, no problem, not at all........ Riiiiiight
You should look back at some of the threads back on here around 2007 when I said it was a load of rubbish, and was pretty much in a minority of one! The global warming apologists surprise surprise aren't so numerous these days.
I'd love to know if Dr David Viner is still around!
We've a split Tory party, a dead Liberal party and Labour finding innovative ways to discover new lows. Only the SNP look vaguely on top of things. Taken together, the party leaders are the weakest generation since 45. Political debate itself is dire. There hasn't been a good new idea in ages.
It's abysmal.
You are giving far too much salience to the referendum, which will be over in a few weeks. Yes, I agree that Labour's leadership is in a dire state, but the Conservative leadership certainly isn't, barmy posts here notwithstanding (I laughed out loud at some of the usual suspects saying, apparently with a straight face, that it was a 'disgrace' that Cameron had penned an article with Brendan Barber).
"Racism is normally an attribute of the right" says Jon Trickett
Staggering comments. I don't think I've seen a mainstream party so effectively hit the self destruct button as the Labour party today. Even the worst days of the Tories under John Major, and there were many, seem miniscule in comparison to today.
Will Cameron still be going on the campaign trail for the EU with Corbyn?
I assume that Zac will be calling for Cameron to stand down for sharing a platform with Corbyn. Not saying Cameron's an extremist, but he clearly provides cover and oxygen (etc)
I like the comment that I’ve just seen from Bernie Sanders "We have a situation now where Wall Street banks are not only too big to fail, they are too big to jail. That is unacceptable and that has got to change because America is based on a system of law and justice.”
Doesn’t the same apply here? When did we last see a big tax evader being taken from a dock to prison?
I think he stole that from Elizabeth Warren. It's still a real shame she didn't run.
Then she stole it from an excellent Matt Taibbi article in Rolling Stone about the antics of HSBC that honestly made my jaw drop.
This refers to the HSBC that requires that, to become a signatory for a club account which turns over some £6k p.a. I attend a branch in person with a copy of the form I’ve signed, bringing two pieces of evidence, one with a reasonably recent photograph, and the other a recent (i.e. not more than three month old) utility bill. It also wanted, as well as my current address, where I’ve lived for 15 years, my previous address!
Well in fairness how many suitcases of rolled up money were you offering to deposit?
Cameron, for all of his faults, is an election winner, and they do not grow on trees - as both the Tories and now Labour are discovering very painfully. A successful leader has to be a great frontman (or woman, oops), has to be a brilliant communicator, politically astute, has to look well, and has to appeal right across the board. But most important, I think, a good leader has to be ruthless. Cameron is certainly that (Mr Corbyn most certainly isn't). When he steps down, whatever their protestations are currently, the Tories will sorely miss him, as Labour have missed Blair, electorally at least, to the point of destruction. Isn't the sole purpose of a political party to win elections, where said party can at least try and implement what it believes to be right for the electorate?
Regarding Cameron's successor, I have been quietly impressed by Theresa May, who has done well in a notoriously difficult brief for a very long time indeed. But I go back to the core characteristics required of a successful leader (and most certainly to be a PM) - is she good enough as an all rounder to win a general election? Not so sure (unless Corbyn's still Labour leader, of course).
I find it very difficult to bet against Boris, accepting he's not covered himself in glory regarding the EU issue.
Here's the rub - do the Tories want an individual to win elections in the name of the Conservative party, like Blair and Labour, or do they want a blue blooded Conservative who the core will love, but the wider public shy away from, like Hague, IDS, or Howard?
It seems a new contender in town,from the left of the party and the tory right will love her ;-)
Nothing new in that news - but Hunt will not back down and he has nothing to lose now
Not surprised even more people blame the Government than they did in February?
Not really interested. Hunt will win
The Contract may well be implemented, but the rota gaps will get worse and be harder to cover. This will drive further doctors to quit or burnout. It will be a hollow victory.
"Racism is normally an attribute of the right" says Jon Trickett
One of the most unattractive things about politics is when people seem to genuinely believe their supposed position on the left-right spectrum (I say 'supposed' because I think the spectrum is largely a nonsense idea, as people flit about all across supposed left to right positions without necessarily realizing it) gives them moral superiority. You do see it all over, and it's how people can say horrible things while thinking they are the good guys, because if what they said was horrible, they'd be on the wrong side of the spectrum, the horrible side.
"Racism is normally an attribute of the right" says Jon Trickett
Staggering comments. I don't think I've seen a mainstream party so effectively hit the self destruct button as the Labour party today. Even the worst days of the Tories under John Major, and there were many, seem miniscule in comparison to today.
It'll blow over, I suspect. I don't know the extent of the problem within labour, or other parties for that matter, but we've already seen the insistence it is not that prevalent, ie not as big a deal as made out, though thankfully most seem to accept it is a concern. So some noises in the right direction, a few months of quiet will emerge at some point on this front, and things will go back to normal.
We've a split Tory party, a dead Liberal party and Labour finding innovative ways to discover new lows. Only the SNP look vaguely on top of things. Taken together, the party leaders are the weakest generation since 45. Political debate itself is dire. There hasn't been a good new idea in ages.
It's abysmal.
You are giving far too much salience to the referendum, which will be over in a few weeks. Yes, I agree that Labour's leadership is in a dire state, but the Conservative leadership certainly isn't, barmy posts here notwithstanding (I laughed out loud at some of the usual suspects saying, apparently with a straight face, that it was a 'disgrace' that Cameron had penned an article with Brendan Barber).
Quite right. This is the Tories' equivalent to the debate on unilateralism that ravaged the Left in the 1980s. Once the position is settled everyone will shrug and move on, being too exhausted to return to what is essentially a technocratic and esoteric matter. Life's too short.
"Racism is normally an attribute of the right" says Jon Trickett
Staggering comments. I don't think I've seen a mainstream party so effectively hit the self destruct button as the Labour party today. Even the worst days of the Tories under John Major, and there were many, seem miniscule in comparison to today.
It'll blow over, I suspect. I don't know the extent of the problem within labour, or other parties for that matter, but we've already seen the insistence it is not that prevalent, ie not as big a deal as made out, though thankfully most seem to accept it is a concern. So some noises in the right direction, a few months of quiet will emerge at some point on this front, and things will go back to normal.
The key is will it affect their vote next week and beyond. Time will tell. I hope the stupidity continues because deep down they are evil.
We've a split Tory party, a dead Liberal party and Labour finding innovative ways to discover new lows. Only the SNP look vaguely on top of things. Taken together, the party leaders are the weakest generation since 45. Political debate itself is dire. There hasn't been a good new idea in ages.
It's abysmal.
You are giving far too much salience to the referendum, which will be over in a few weeks. Yes, I agree that Labour's leadership is in a dire state, but the Conservative leadership certainly isn't, barmy posts here notwithstanding (I laughed out loud at some of the usual suspects saying, apparently with a straight face, that it was a 'disgrace' that Cameron had penned an article with Brendan Barber).
Oh so you are ok that Cameron who promised getting back the social contract powers from the EU now signs a statement saying that we must stay in the EU to have them set these policies.....?
Here's the rub - do the Tories want an individual to win elections in the name of the Conservative party, like Blair and Labour, or do they want a blue blooded Conservative who the core will love, but the wider public shy away from, like Hague, IDS, or Howard?
Although some thought and think Corbyn can in fact win elections nationally, many at the time of his accession claimed they preferred opting for a red blooded Labourite who the core would love, even if that meant the wider public shied away from.
Are the Tories at the point they would like to do the same? 2 months ago I'd have said no. Now, I'd say maybe.
"Racism is normally an attribute of the right" says Jon Trickett
Staggering comments. I don't think I've seen a mainstream party so effectively hit the self destruct button as the Labour party today. Even the worst days of the Tories under John Major, and there were many, seem miniscule in comparison to today.
It'll blow over, I suspect. I don't know the extent of the problem within labour, or other parties for that matter, but we've already seen the insistence it is not that prevalent, ie not as big a deal as made out, though thankfully most seem to accept it is a concern. So some noises in the right direction, a few months of quiet will emerge at some point on this front, and things will go back to normal.
The key is will it affect their vote next week and beyond. Time will tell. I hope the stupidity continues because deep down they are evil.
By 'they' do you mean Labour, the Left generally or Corbynites?
It was unambiguously worse from the mid 1960s until 1979, arguably worse from around 1989 until 1997, unambiguously worse from 2003 until 2010.
If you mean the Labour Party has never been in a worse state, then I might agree, although we are talking the precedence between a louse and a flea in comparing Labour today to Labour circa 1982.
We've a split Tory party, a dead Liberal party and Labour finding innovative ways to discover new lows. Only the SNP look vaguely on top of things. Taken together, the party leaders are the weakest generation since 45. Political debate itself is dire. There hasn't been a good new idea in ages.
It's abysmal.
Just wait until all the corruption around 788 790 Finchley Road comes out into the mainstream. That will like today be one heck of a day to behold and witness.
Its all part of the wider cycle of declining confidence in governments worldwide. 1st October 2015 was the peak in government. Its all downhill into January 2020. As for there not being a good new idea in ages, the best idea would be largely for the government to get out of peoples lives as far as possible full stop. Yes we need some government - national defence / foreign policy and locally administered public services along the Swiss model if you ask me as a Libertarian. Throughout history when the going has got tough for governments, far from being there for the people, they've always turned AGAINST the people. 788 790 Finchley Road, the large scale child abuse despite the best attempts of the establishment to cover it up, the abuses of the secretive family courts, the total scam to collect more tax through supposed global warming, these and many more things show that the government is well and truly out of control.
Well, Khan is odds on 1/15 on average and Zac is 8/1 on average. A 2 horse race, Zac's party in power, Khan's party in meltdown.You betters are keeping mighty quiet but if I were you I would put something on Zac.
I do have something big to share but I cannot until Tuesday night at earliest. It might be less important by then. Anyway, just have a look at Zac's odds, spend a quid or two.
Zac is still 11 with Betfair Exchange.
But still a massive value bet. I will stop nagging. I just thought you chaps would bite, but you plainly think he has lost.
"Racism is normally an attribute of the right" says Jon Trickett
Staggering comments. I don't think I've seen a mainstream party so effectively hit the self destruct button as the Labour party today. Even the worst days of the Tories under John Major, and there were many, seem miniscule in comparison to today.
It'll blow over, I suspect. I don't know the extent of the problem within labour, or other parties for that matter, but we've already seen the insistence it is not that prevalent, ie not as big a deal as made out, though thankfully most seem to accept it is a concern. So some noises in the right direction, a few months of quiet will emerge at some point on this front, and things will go back to normal.
Possibly. All parties have their problems with racism, homophobia, etc. etc. from time to time, and really the big issue today is about message discipline (don't express any strong opinions unless they clearly advance the party's current narrative; and if that's too difficult, just don't say anything completely fucking moronic). I don't remember the last time I saw a politician of any party go even half as far past that line as Ken did today. And we still have idiots defending the content of what he said, rather than recognising that the truth of it is now irrelevant: the important bit is to stop talking. Right now, they're making UKIP's worst days look like a Mandelson/Campbell spin masterclass by comparison.
If it was only about anti-semitism, real and perceived, I'd agree with you that things would go back to normal, but if it's about a basic disintegration of party management, messaging and unity then it's going to get worse, because whenever an ill-judged comment by someone in the Labour party is fished out by Guido, 3 other morons will jump up to explain why it's OK.
We've a split Tory party, a dead Liberal party and Labour finding innovative ways to discover new lows. Only the SNP look vaguely on top of things. Taken together, the party leaders are the weakest generation since 45. Political debate itself is dire. There hasn't been a good new idea in ages.
It's abysmal.
You are giving far too much salience to the referendum, which will be over in a few weeks. Yes, I agree that Labour's leadership is in a dire state, but the Conservative leadership certainly isn't, barmy posts here notwithstanding (I laughed out loud at some of the usual suspects saying, apparently with a straight face, that it was a 'disgrace' that Cameron had penned an article with Brendan Barber).
Regarding Barber, the Tories did a bit of snuggling up to the unions under Hague in about 1998. Consensus on pension reform was the hot topic if I recall. Curiously, Hague wasn't berated by the Right back then for treachery; instead he was ridiculed by the Left for a transparent and doomed attempt to appear moderate and sensible. How times change!
Hope so. I backed him months ago on the basis that Cameron wouldn't alienate Tory voters and there would be an obvious blow up in Labour about religion.
I was right with the second assumption.
Cameron and IDS were the 2 things that held Zac back.
We've a split Tory party, a dead Liberal party and Labour finding innovative ways to discover new lows. Only the SNP look vaguely on top of things. Taken together, the party leaders are the weakest generation since 45. Political debate itself is dire. There hasn't been a good new idea in ages.
It's abysmal.
You are giving far too much salience to the referendum, which will be over in a few weeks. Yes, I agree that Labour's leadership is in a dire state, but the Conservative leadership certainly isn't, barmy posts here notwithstanding (I laughed out loud at some of the usual suspects saying, apparently with a straight face, that it was a 'disgrace' that Cameron had penned an article with Brendan Barber).
Oh so you are ok that Cameron who promised getting back the social contract powers from the EU now signs a statement saying that we must stay in the EU to have them set these policies.....?
Whatever Big Brother says must be right, even if he said precisely the opposite yesterday.
There's a London Mayoral phone poll out at midnight.
I'll be watching Captain America: Civil War then....
Interesting. I suspect Khan will be 10 points ahead. But the silent minority of 6 to 10 points may back Zac. So, as long as it is within 10, then there is hope for the good guys.
We've a split Tory party, a dead Liberal party and Labour finding innovative ways to discover new lows. Only the SNP look vaguely on top of things. Taken together, the party leaders are the weakest generation since 45. Political debate itself is dire. There hasn't been a good new idea in ages.
It's abysmal.
You are giving far too much salience to the referendum, which will be over in a few weeks. Yes, I agree that Labour's leadership is in a dire state, but the Conservative leadership certainly isn't, barmy posts here notwithstanding (I laughed out loud at some of the usual suspects saying, apparently with a straight face, that it was a 'disgrace' that Cameron had penned an article with Brendan Barber).
Regarding Barber, the Tories did a bit of snuggling up to the unions under Hague in about 1998. Consensus on pension reform was the hot topic if I recall. Curiously, Hague wasn't berated by the Right back then for treachery; instead he was ridiculed by the Left for a transparent and doomed attempt to appear moderate and sensible. How times change!
You've got to feel for the right wing of the PLP. Previously they could have stormed off and joined the Tories over this anti-semitism blow up, but they'd never feel at home in a party with Cameron's left-wing views on trade unions.
' Born in Bradford,[4] Shah was abandoned by her father when six years old after he ran off with their neighbour's sixteen-year-old daughter. At age 12, she was sent to Pakistan to avoid her mother, Zoora's, violent partner, whom Zoora fatally poisoned because she believed he was planning to sexually abuse her daughters. She served 14 years in prison for his murder. While in Pakistan, Shah was forced into an arranged marriage.[4][5] '
We've a split Tory party, a dead Liberal party and Labour finding innovative ways to discover new lows. Only the SNP look vaguely on top of things. Taken together, the party leaders are the weakest generation since 45. Political debate itself is dire. There hasn't been a good new idea in ages.
It's abysmal.
You are giving far too much salience to the referendum, which will be over in a few weeks. Yes, I agree that Labour's leadership is in a dire state, but the Conservative leadership certainly isn't, barmy posts here notwithstanding (I laughed out loud at some of the usual suspects saying, apparently with a straight face, that it was a 'disgrace' that Cameron had penned an article with Brendan Barber).
Regarding Barber, the Tories did a bit of snuggling up to the unions under Hague in about 1998. Consensus on pension reform was the hot topic if I recall. Curiously, Hague wasn't berated by the Right back then for treachery; instead he was ridiculed by the Left for a transparent and doomed attempt to appear moderate and sensible. How times change!
You've got to feel for the right wing of the PLP. Previously they could have stormed off and joined the Tories over this anti-semitism blow up, but they'd never feel at home in a party with Cameron's left-wing views on trade unions.
We've a split Tory party, a dead Liberal party and Labour finding innovative ways to discover new lows. Only the SNP look vaguely on top of things. Taken together, the party leaders are the weakest generation since 45. Political debate itself is dire. There hasn't been a good new idea in ages.
It's abysmal.
You are giving far too much salience to the referendum, which will be over in a few weeks. Yes, I agree that Labour's leadership is in a dire state, but the Conservative leadership certainly isn't, barmy posts here notwithstanding (I laughed out loud at some of the usual suspects saying, apparently with a straight face, that it was a 'disgrace' that Cameron had penned an article with Brendan Barber).
Regarding Barber, the Tories did a bit of snuggling up to the unions under Hague in about 1998. Consensus on pension reform was the hot topic if I recall. Curiously, Hague wasn't berated by the Right back then for treachery; instead he was ridiculed by the Left for a transparent and doomed attempt to appear moderate and sensible. How times change!
You've got to feel for the right wing of the PLP. Previously they could have stormed off and joined the Tories over this anti-semitism blow up, but they'd never feel at home in a party with Cameron's left-wing views on trade unions.
if they nationalise steel - combined with the living wage and trade union deals, I might just rip up my membership card.
Well, Khan is odds on 1/15 on average and Zac is 8/1 on average. A 2 horse race, Zac's party in power, Khan's party in meltdown.You betters are keeping mighty quiet but if I were you I would put something on Zac.
I do have something big to share but I cannot until Tuesday night at earliest. It might be less important by then. Anyway, just have a look at Zac's odds, spend a quid or two.
Zac is still 11 with Betfair Exchange.
But still a massive value bet. I will stop nagging. I just thought you chaps would bite, but you plainly think he has lost.
I've put a bit on Zac hoping his price will shrink.
' Born in Bradford,[4] Shah was abandoned by her father when six years old after he ran off with their neighbour's sixteen-year-old daughter. At age 12, she was sent to Pakistan to avoid her mother, Zoora's, violent partner, whom Zoora fatally poisoned because she believed he was planning to sexually abuse her daughters. She served 14 years in prison for his murder. While in Pakistan, Shah was forced into an arranged marriage.[4][5] '
Quite honestly, that still doesn't give her the right to espouse deeply troubling views that put her well outside the mainstream of what is considered acceptable in a modern society.
Burnham very powerful on Hillsborough. Quite right on the millions of taxpayers money spent to perpetuate the lies. But Hillsborough is far from an isolated case where this has gone on sadly. I would love a fresh inquiry into the Chinook helicopter crash on the Mull of Kintyre - thankfully under Liam Fox the pilots were exonerated back in 2011, but the real cause of the accident has never been got to the bottom of.....and the original pathologist report on the crash should be made freely available for all to see - fat chance of that though.
You should look back at some of the threads back on here around 2007 when I said it was a load of rubbish, and was pretty much in a minority of one! The global warming apologists surprise surprise aren't so numerous these days.
I'd love to know if Dr David Viner is still around!
Those global warmists are quite literally in full retreat right now. They really are as pathetic as Ken Livingstone today.
It's a shame it all turned out to be a hoax because I'd actually like it to get a bit warmer.
Absolutely. The better times in history generally occur when the climate is warmer. Its going to get a lot lot colder between now and 2030, all the serious global climate experts agree on that.
Is she not just top of the Lothian List? Don't think she is standing in a constituency at all.
Really ???
But I've read endlessly about how popular Ruth Davidson is.
Perhaps Davidson's chickenrunning should have given a clue.
It turns out I was wrong and she is standing in Edinburgh Central. Not a seat I would give the tories a huge chance in under normal circumstances but she is.
@lindasgrant 9m9 minutes ago Thought has grown all day that Ken Livingstone is showing early signs of dementia. Not just memory loss but a verbal incontinence.
There was something very "odd" about his TV performance. Not just drunk, but off-kilter.
He needs a carer, who, if they can supply 35 hours of personal care per week, would qualify for Carer's Allowance of £62.10 per week. Livingstone himself might qualify for Attendance Allowance (£82 a week).
Is she not just top of the Lothian List? Don't think she is standing in a constituency at all.
Really ???
But I've read endlessly about how popular Ruth Davidson is.
Perhaps Davidson's chickenrunning should have given a clue.
It turns out I was wrong and she is standing in Edinburgh Central. Not a seat I would give the tories a huge chance in under normal circumstances but she is.
Odd that she's giving up her guaranteed list seat in favour of probably losing a constituency like Edinburgh Central.
' Born in Bradford,[4] Shah was abandoned by her father when six years old after he ran off with their neighbour's sixteen-year-old daughter. At age 12, she was sent to Pakistan to avoid her mother, Zoora's, violent partner, whom Zoora fatally poisoned because she believed he was planning to sexually abuse her daughters. She served 14 years in prison for his murder. While in Pakistan, Shah was forced into an arranged marriage.[4][5] '
Quite honestly, that still doesn't give her the right to espouse deeply troubling views that put her well outside the mainstream of what is considered acceptable in a modern society.
Except those views ARE mainstream in the society she comes from.
We've a split Tory party, a dead Liberal party and Labour finding innovative ways to discover new lows. Only the SNP look vaguely on top of things. Taken together, the party leaders are the weakest generation since 45. Political debate itself is dire. There hasn't been a good new idea in ages.
It's abysmal.
You are giving far too much salience to the referendum, which will be over in a few weeks. Yes, I agree that Labour's leadership is in a dire state, but the Conservative leadership certainly isn't, barmy posts here notwithstanding (I laughed out loud at some of the usual suspects saying, apparently with a straight face, that it was a 'disgrace' that Cameron had penned an article with Brendan Barber).
Regarding Barber, the Tories did a bit of snuggling up to the unions under Hague in about 1998. Consensus on pension reform was the hot topic if I recall. Curiously, Hague wasn't berated by the Right back then for treachery; instead he was ridiculed by the Left for a transparent and doomed attempt to appear moderate and sensible. How times change!
You've got to feel for the right wing of the PLP. Previously they could have stormed off and joined the Tories over this anti-semitism blow up, but they'd never feel at home in a party with Cameron's left-wing views on trade unions.
if they nationalise steel - combined with the living wage and trade union deals, I might just rip up my membership card.
You card is safe - EU laws prevent nationalisation.
Is she not just top of the Lothian List? Don't think she is standing in a constituency at all.
Really ???
But I've read endlessly about how popular Ruth Davidson is.
Perhaps Davidson's chickenrunning should have given a clue.
It turns out I was wrong and she is standing in Edinburgh Central. Not a seat I would give the tories a huge chance in under normal circumstances but she is.
Odd that she's giving up her guaranteed list seat in favour of probably losing a constituency like Edinburgh Central.
No she is on both. She is #1 for the Tories on the list and will be elected.
Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn I would like to make it very clear that we do not tolerate anti-Semitism in any form within the Labour Party
We'll see as the weekend papers come in, I suspect.
He made it very clear what he really thinks when he failed to act against Livingstone (and Shah) until the pressure had built up to such an extent that he couldn't not act.
His lack of authority within the party hierarchy is becoming more evident. The whips stopped him acting against Mann today. Who is actually running Labour now?
Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn I would like to make it very clear that we do not tolerate anti-Semitism in any form within the Labour Party
We'll see as the weekend papers come in, I suspect.
He made it very clear what he really thinks when he failed to act against Livingstone (and Shah) until the pressure had built up to such an extent that he couldn't not act.
His lack of authority within the party hierarchy is becoming more evident. The whips stopped him acting against Mann today. Who is actually running Labour now?
Just had a look at the front pages for tomorrow and they are pretty toxic for Labour. Surprisingly The Sun doesn't run with it on the front - which seems an odd choice.
Is she not just top of the Lothian List? Don't think she is standing in a constituency at all.
Really ???
But I've read endlessly about how popular Ruth Davidson is.
Perhaps Davidson's chickenrunning should have given a clue.
It turns out I was wrong and she is standing in Edinburgh Central. Not a seat I would give the tories a huge chance in under normal circumstances but she is.
Odd that she's giving up her guaranteed list seat in favour of probably losing a constituency like Edinburgh Central.
But wont she be on both the List and standing in a constituency ?
Jeremy Corbyn MP @jeremycorbyn I would like to make it very clear that we do not tolerate anti-Semitism in any form within the Labour Party
We'll see as the weekend papers come in, I suspect.
He made it very clear what he really thinks when he failed to act against Livingstone (and Shah) until the pressure had built up to such an extent that he couldn't not act.
His lack of authority within the party hierarchy is becoming more evident. The whips stopped him acting against Mann today. Who is actually running Labour now?
Milne.
If Milne was running it, Mann would have been out today.
It is beyond any political shambles that I can remember.
You should look back at some of the threads back on here around 2007 when I said it was a load of rubbish, and was pretty much in a minority of one! The global warming apologists surprise surprise aren't so numerous these days.
I'd love to know if Dr David Viner is still around!
Those global warmists are quite literally in full retreat right now. They really are as pathetic as Ken Livingstone today.
It's a shame it all turned out to be a hoax because I'd actually like it to get a bit warmer.
Absolutely. The better times in history generally occur when the climate is warmer. Its going to get a lot lot colder between now and 2030, all the serious global climate experts agree on that.
Is she not just top of the Lothian List? Don't think she is standing in a constituency at all.
Really ???
But I've read endlessly about how popular Ruth Davidson is.
Perhaps Davidson's chickenrunning should have given a clue.
It turns out I was wrong and she is standing in Edinburgh Central. Not a seat I would give the tories a huge chance in under normal circumstances but she is.
Odd that she's giving up her guaranteed list seat in favour of probably losing a constituency like Edinburgh Central.
But wont she be on both the List and standing in a constituency ?
I thought it wasn't allowed but it is apparently. It is prohibited in Wales IIRC.
' Born in Bradford,[4] Shah was abandoned by her father when six years old after he ran off with their neighbour's sixteen-year-old daughter. At age 12, she was sent to Pakistan to avoid her mother, Zoora's, violent partner, whom Zoora fatally poisoned because she believed he was planning to sexually abuse her daughters. She served 14 years in prison for his murder. While in Pakistan, Shah was forced into an arranged marriage.[4][5] '
Quite honestly, that still doesn't give her the right to espouse deeply troubling views that put her well outside the mainstream of what is considered acceptable in a modern society.
Except those views ARE mainstream in the society she comes from.
Burnham very powerful on Hillsborough. Quite right on the millions of taxpayers money spent to perpetuate the lies. But Hillsborough is far from an isolated case where this has gone on sadly. I would love a fresh inquiry into the Chinook helicopter crash on the Mull of Kintyre - thankfully under Liam Fox the pilots were exonerated back in 2011, but the real cause of the accident has never been got to the bottom of.....and the original pathologist report on the crash should be made freely available for all to see - fat chance of that though.
Burnham has been immensely impressive about Hillsborough achieving a level of recognition and respect very, very few politicians achieve in their entire careers.
It frankly makes his truly pathetic leadership campaign even more bewildering.
Nothing new in that news - but Hunt will not back down and he has nothing to lose now
Not surprised even more people blame the Government than they did in February?
Not really interested. Hunt will win
The Contract may well be implemented, but the rota gaps will get worse and be harder to cover. This will drive further doctors to quit or burnout. It will be a hollow victory.
I do respect your views as you are very involved but the threats have become too over the top by the doctors and talking about an indefinite strike is plain absurd. Hunt announced to the HOC that there will be 11,500 new doctors by 2020 to address the 7 day issue and he has also taken action to invest in more GP's. Where the additional doctors come from I have no idea but no doubt they will come from the EU and the commonwealth and he will also replace those who leave by the same means
Am I the only one who finds it bizarre that a year ago the leader of the opposition (and possible PM) was a lapsed Jew and now the leader of the opposition has spent all afternoon deciding whether to suspend a Nazi revisionist? And then claims that all this is some plot by people worried about the renewed strength of local labour parties.
Is she not just top of the Lothian List? Don't think she is standing in a constituency at all.
Really ???
But I've read endlessly about how popular Ruth Davidson is.
Perhaps Davidson's chickenrunning should have given a clue.
It turns out I was wrong and she is standing in Edinburgh Central. Not a seat I would give the tories a huge chance in under normal circumstances but she is.
You should look back at some of the threads back on here around 2007 when I said it was a load of rubbish, and was pretty much in a minority of one! The global warming apologists surprise surprise aren't so numerous these days.
I'd love to know if Dr David Viner is still around!
Those global warmists are quite literally in full retreat right now. They really are as pathetic as Ken Livingstone today.
It's a shame it all turned out to be a hoax because I'd actually like it to get a bit warmer.
Absolutely. The better times in history generally occur when the climate is warmer. Its going to get a lot lot colder between now and 2030, all the serious global climate experts agree on that.
Apparently, it'll get much colder if we Brexit.
That's about the standard of the Remain arguments in this campaign!
Is she not just top of the Lothian List? Don't think she is standing in a constituency at all.
Really ???
But I've read endlessly about how popular Ruth Davidson is.
Perhaps Davidson's chickenrunning should have given a clue.
It turns out I was wrong and she is standing in Edinburgh Central. Not a seat I would give the tories a huge chance in under normal circumstances but she is.
Odd that she's giving up her guaranteed list seat in favour of probably losing a constituency like Edinburgh Central.
No she is on both. She is #1 for the Tories on the list and will be elected.
Surely she wouldn't be elected if the SCON won a couple of Edinburgh constituencies and so weren't eligible for list MSPs ?
Some thick people in the QT audience, unaware of the popularity of mobile phones in Africa.
Not the 'they aren't proper refugees, they have smartphones' crowd are they?
(Leaving aside smartphones may not necessarily be that expensive, if one is embarking upon risky long distance journey's, maintaining a phone seems like a good priority, as well as very easy to keep on your person even when much else is lost)
Burnham very powerful on Hillsborough. Quite right on the millions of taxpayers money spent to perpetuate the lies. But Hillsborough is far from an isolated case where this has gone on sadly. I would love a fresh inquiry into the Chinook helicopter crash on the Mull of Kintyre - thankfully under Liam Fox the pilots were exonerated back in 2011, but the real cause of the accident has never been got to the bottom of.....and the original pathologist report on the crash should be made freely available for all to see - fat chance of that though.
Burnham has been immensely impressive about Hillsborough achieving a level of recognition and respect very, very few politicians achieve in their entire careers.
It frankly makes his truly pathetic leadership campaign even more bewildering.
Except a friend in the pub last night pointed out that Burnham did nothing when he was Sports and Culture Minister. I've no idea, I can't recall what he was doing at the time.
Burnham very powerful on Hillsborough. Quite right on the millions of taxpayers money spent to perpetuate the lies. But Hillsborough is far from an isolated case where this has gone on sadly. I would love a fresh inquiry into the Chinook helicopter crash on the Mull of Kintyre - thankfully under Liam Fox the pilots were exonerated back in 2011, but the real cause of the accident has never been got to the bottom of.....and the original pathologist report on the crash should be made freely available for all to see - fat chance of that though.
Burnham has been immensely impressive about Hillsborough achieving a level of recognition and respect very, very few politicians achieve in their entire careers.
It frankly makes his truly pathetic leadership campaign even more bewildering.
Not really. His Hillsborough campaign was essentially a back-bench campaign (even though Burnham was a front bencher). Leadership requires a very different set of skills
Is she not just top of the Lothian List? Don't think she is standing in a constituency at all.
Really ???
But I've read endlessly about how popular Ruth Davidson is.
Perhaps Davidson's chickenrunning should have given a clue.
It turns out I was wrong and she is standing in Edinburgh Central. Not a seat I would give the tories a huge chance in under normal circumstances but she is.
Not a huge chance in any circumstance.
Pentlands was the one she could have had a chance of taking but Gordon Lindhurst is standing there. I agree Edinburgh Central is a seat where the tories normally struggle to come 3rd.
I like the comment that I’ve just seen from Bernie Sanders "We have a situation now where Wall Street banks are not only too big to fail, they are too big to jail. That is unacceptable and that has got to change because America is based on a system of law and justice.”
Doesn’t the same apply here? When did we last see a big tax evader being taken from a dock to prison?
I think he stole that from Elizabeth Warren. It's still a real shame she didn't run.
She might have been the first Red Indian President.
Don’t be racist! Native American is the term. And unless my calculations are awry, she’s somewhat less NA than Boris is Circassian. Allegedly.
First Nations, I believe these days?
Isn't First Nations the Canadian term, whereas Native American is the US term.
Is she not just top of the Lothian List? Don't think she is standing in a constituency at all.
Really ???
But I've read endlessly about how popular Ruth Davidson is.
Perhaps Davidson's chickenrunning should have given a clue.
It turns out I was wrong and she is standing in Edinburgh Central. Not a seat I would give the tories a huge chance in under normal circumstances but she is.
Odd that she's giving up her guaranteed list seat in favour of probably losing a constituency like Edinburgh Central.
No she is on both. She is #1 for the Tories on the list and will be elected.
Surely she wouldn't be elected if the SCON won a couple of Edinburgh constituencies and so weren't eligible for list MSPs ?
Burnham very powerful on Hillsborough. Quite right on the millions of taxpayers money spent to perpetuate the lies. But Hillsborough is far from an isolated case where this has gone on sadly. I would love a fresh inquiry into the Chinook helicopter crash on the Mull of Kintyre - thankfully under Liam Fox the pilots were exonerated back in 2011, but the real cause of the accident has never been got to the bottom of.....and the original pathologist report on the crash should be made freely available for all to see - fat chance of that though.
Burnham has been immensely impressive about Hillsborough achieving a level of recognition and respect very, very few politicians achieve in their entire careers.
It frankly makes his truly pathetic leadership campaign even more bewildering.
Except a friend in the pub last night pointed out that Burnham did nothing when he was Sports and Culture Minister. I've no idea, I can't recall what he was doing at the time.
Burnham got involved in it after he turned up to address the 20th anniversary memorial service in 2009 (as a local MP and minister for Sport) and got booed off the stage. Fair play to him for the huge efforts he has put into the cause since that day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z3mBIi084Q
Some thick people in the QT audience, unaware of the popularity of mobile phones in Africa.
Absolutely. Even if you told them that they've gone straight to mobile networks as they never had the landline infrastructure of developed countries, they still wouldn't get it. The general lack of knowledge about development issues in Africa and South America amongst people who have never travelled there is staggering. Still when you get all the fraudulent £2 for this, £3 for that a month campaigns in the MSM that willfully keep the general population ignorant about these countries then that is what you get.
I never forget walking around the streets of La Paz in October 2007, lots of black market street stalls in the shadow economy with people getting along fine with no need for government in their lives, and strong family units much more effective than know all state welfare ever will be.
Burnham very powerful on Hillsborough. Quite right on the millions of taxpayers money spent to perpetuate the lies. But Hillsborough is far from an isolated case where this has gone on sadly. I would love a fresh inquiry into the Chinook helicopter crash on the Mull of Kintyre - thankfully under Liam Fox the pilots were exonerated back in 2011, but the real cause of the accident has never been got to the bottom of.....and the original pathologist report on the crash should be made freely available for all to see - fat chance of that though.
Burnham has been immensely impressive about Hillsborough achieving a level of recognition and respect very, very few politicians achieve in their entire careers.
It frankly makes his truly pathetic leadership campaign even more bewildering.
Except a friend in the pub last night pointed out that Burnham did nothing when he was Sports and Culture Minister. I've no idea, I can't recall what he was doing at the time.
Burnham got involved in it after he turned up to address the 20th anniversary memorial service in 2009 (as a local MP and minister for Sport) and got booed off the stage. Fair play to him for the huge efforts he has put into the cause since that day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z3mBIi084Q
Ok, fair play. I thought my friend's comment seemed a bit unlikely.
' Born in Bradford,[4] Shah was abandoned by her father when six years old after he ran off with their neighbour's sixteen-year-old daughter. At age 12, she was sent to Pakistan to avoid her mother, Zoora's, violent partner, whom Zoora fatally poisoned because she believed he was planning to sexually abuse her daughters. She served 14 years in prison for his murder. While in Pakistan, Shah was forced into an arranged marriage.[4][5] '
Quite honestly, that still doesn't give her the right to espouse deeply troubling views that put her well outside the mainstream of what is considered acceptable in a modern society.
Except those views ARE mainstream in the society she comes from.
That society is not a modern one. We shouldn't accept medieval thought just because it comes from a different 'culture'
'We' have accepted it - from 'honour' killings to electoral fraud to industrial scale racist child rape to FGM to cousin marriage to sharia law and so on.
Interesting snooker world championships. Absolutely gutted on Monday night when Ronnie lost - Hawkins quarter final showed just how much that had taken out of him.
I'm now hoping that Ding will win it - would be a staggering achievement after having to play 3 qualifiers, and now in his 7th match. Having yesterday off did him a power of good. Likely final of Ding Selby.....and Ding would need to ensure that he doesn't get tied down in long safety exchanges with him.
John Pienaar said on 10 O'cloock news: "Labour's reputation as the Party of Diversity and Tolerance is On THe Line" .... Labour will have to split into two.
' Born in Bradford,[4] Shah was abandoned by her father when six years old after he ran off with their neighbour's sixteen-year-old daughter. At age 12, she was sent to Pakistan to avoid her mother, Zoora's, violent partner, whom Zoora fatally poisoned because she believed he was planning to sexually abuse her daughters. She served 14 years in prison for his murder. While in Pakistan, Shah was forced into an arranged marriage.[4][5] '
Quite honestly, that still doesn't give her the right to espouse deeply troubling views that put her well outside the mainstream of what is considered acceptable in a modern society.
Except those views ARE mainstream in the society she comes from.
That society is not a modern one. We shouldn't accept medieval thought just because it comes from a different 'culture'
'We' have accepted it - from 'honour' killings to electoral fraud to industrial scale racist child rape to FGM to cousin marriage to sharia law and so on.
And we have to undo that acceptance/tolerance. Rapidly.
Nothing new in that news - but Hunt will not back down and he has nothing to lose now
Not surprised even more people blame the Government than they did in February?
Not really interested. Hunt will win
The Contract may well be implemented, but the rota gaps will get worse and be harder to cover. This will drive further doctors to quit or burnout. It will be a hollow victory.
I do respect your views as you are very involved but the threats have become too over the top by the doctors and talking about an indefinite strike is plain absurd. Hunt announced to the HOC that there will be 11,500 new doctors by 2020 to address the 7 day issue and he has also taken action to invest in more GP's. Where the additional doctors come from I have no idea but no doubt they will come from the EU and the commonwealth and he will also replace those who leave by the same means
The number of WTE GP's in England is decreasing and in my own region half of GP training places are vacant. Nationally about 20% of junior doctors posts are vacant for August with the recruitment round complete.
Chorley recently could not employ enough doctors to staff their emergency department from anywhere in the world:
Comments
Will Cameron still be going on the campaign trail for the EU with Corbyn?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/04/28/labour-mps-need-to-confront-jeremy-corbyn-over-anti-semitism/
http://www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2016/04/profile-anna-soubry-the-street-fighter-emerging-as-the-leader-of-the-tory-left.html
Are the Tories at the point they would like to do the same? 2 months ago I'd have said no. Now, I'd say maybe.
Emma Thompson sprayed with manure.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36160025
Its all part of the wider cycle of declining confidence in governments worldwide. 1st October 2015 was the peak in government. Its all downhill into January 2020. As for there not being a good new idea in ages, the best idea would be largely for the government to get out of peoples lives as far as possible full stop. Yes we need some government - national defence / foreign policy and locally administered public services along the Swiss model if you ask me as a Libertarian. Throughout history when the going has got tough for governments, far from being there for the people, they've always turned AGAINST the people. 788 790 Finchley Road, the large scale child abuse despite the best attempts of the establishment to cover it up, the abuses of the secretive family courts, the total scam to collect more tax through supposed global warming, these and many more things show that the government is well and truly out of control.
If it was only about anti-semitism, real and perceived, I'd agree with you that things would go back to normal, but if it's about a basic disintegration of party management, messaging and unity then it's going to get worse, because whenever an ill-judged comment by someone in the Labour party is fished out by Guido, 3 other morons will jump up to explain why it's OK.
' Born in Bradford,[4] Shah was abandoned by her father when six years old after he ran off with their neighbour's sixteen-year-old daughter. At age 12, she was sent to Pakistan to avoid her mother, Zoora's, violent partner, whom Zoora fatally poisoned because she believed he was planning to sexually abuse her daughters. She served 14 years in prison for his murder. While in Pakistan, Shah was forced into an arranged marriage.[4][5] '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naz_Shah
More details here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11458810/Murderers-daughter-Naz-Shah-tells-why-she-is-standing-for-Parliament.html
http://www.vijayvaani.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?aid=1813
O/T Just got back from a very good performance of Sunset Boulevard with Glenn Close outstanding as Norma Desmond
But I've read endlessly about how popular Ruth Davidson is.
Perhaps Davidson's chickenrunning should have given a clue.
I would like to make it very clear that we do not tolerate anti-Semitism in any form within the Labour Party
We'll see as the weekend papers come in, I suspect.
Remember not just George Galloway but also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ward_(British_politician)
His lack of authority within the party hierarchy is becoming more evident. The whips stopped him acting against Mann today. Who is actually running Labour now?
It is beyond any political shambles that I can remember.
It frankly makes his truly pathetic leadership campaign even more bewildering.
How far Labour have travelled, how far...
As happened in Wales in 2011:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Bourne
(Leaving aside smartphones may not necessarily be that expensive, if one is embarking upon risky long distance journey's, maintaining a phone seems like a good priority, as well as very easy to keep on your person even when much else is lost)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z3mBIi084Q
I never forget walking around the streets of La Paz in October 2007, lots of black market street stalls in the shadow economy with people getting along fine with no need for government in their lives, and strong family units much more effective than know all state welfare ever will be.
I'm now hoping that Ding will win it - would be a staggering achievement after having to play 3 qualifiers, and now in his 7th match. Having yesterday off did him a power of good. Likely final of Ding Selby.....and Ding would need to ensure that he doesn't get tied down in long safety exchanges with him.
Good night all.
Chorley recently could not employ enough doctors to staff their emergency department from anywhere in the world:
http://m.chorley-guardian.co.uk/news/local/no-date-for-reopening-of-chorley-hospital-s-accident-and-emergency-unit-says-trust-chief-executive-1-7877346
This is what the future will bring with Hunt in charge. He will be OK. Millionaires will be fine. It is the rest of us who have to worry.