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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » First post EU deal referendum poll has REMAIN with 15% lead

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    No one has previously won NH and SC and failed to win GOP nomination. It's Trump v Clinton. And Trump wins that handily.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "DAVID WASSERMAN 7:43 PM
    If I had to bet on second place, I’d put a very slight bet on Rubio over Cruz at the moment. Very early returns in Charleston County show him leading Cruz there 2-to-1, and very early returns in Greenville County show a virtual three-way tie between Trump, Rubio, and Cruz."

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/nevada-caucus-south-carolina-primary-presidential-election-2016/
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,780
    edited February 2016
    Rubio is now favourite to finish 2nd. Not much in it.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    HYUFD said:

    CNN 5% in and projects Trump has won South Carolina as well
    32.2% Trump
    22.4% Rubio
    20.9% Cruz
    10.6% Bush
    8.0% Kasich
    6.0% Carson
    http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/sc/Rep

    Not far off the polls. Late surge by Rubio picked up. No-where near enough...
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    stjohn said:

    Rubio is now favourite to finish 2nd. Not much in it.

    Ah. Might be a story there.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    AndyJS said:

    "DAVID WASSERMAN 7:43 PM
    If I had to bet on second place, I’d put a very slight bet on Rubio over Cruz at the moment. Very early returns in Charleston County show him leading Cruz there 2-to-1, and very early returns in Greenville County show a virtual three-way tie between Trump, Rubio, and Cruz."

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/nevada-caucus-south-carolina-primary-presidential-election-2016/

    Could be.
    Not entirely convinced but could be.

    I say its still 50-50.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941

    stjohn said:

    Rubio is now favourite to finish 2nd. Not much in it.

    Ah. Might be a story there.
    Rubio's 3-5-3 strategy.
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013

    No one has previously won NH and SC and failed to win GOP nomination. It's Trump v Clinton. And Trump wins that handily.

    He has huge negative figures, even among his own party, without THAT much in the line of attacks from the Democrats
    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges
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    stjohn said:

    Rubio is now favourite to finish 2nd. Not much in it.

    Ah. Might be a story there.
    Betfair have suspended the market (?!)
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    CNN 5% in and projects Trump has won South Carolina as well
    32.2% Trump
    22.4% Rubio
    20.9% Cruz
    10.6% Bush
    8.0% Kasich
    6.0% Carson
    http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/sc/Rep

    Not far off the polls. Late surge by Rubio picked up. No-where near enough...
    Cruz back in second with 7% in

    Trump 34.2%
    Cruz 21.5%
    Rubio 21.1%
    Bush 9.6%
    Kasich 7.4%
    Carson 6.1%
    http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/sc/Rep
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,351
    If Rubio makes it to 2nd I think he's going to get all the "momentum" media coverage, and a bunch of money from the establishment as they give up on Bush. Wouldn't like to bet much ainst him despite Trump's strength.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    CHeerio Jeb.

    FUCK OFF BACK TO DUBYA

    CHEERIO
    CHEERIO
    CHEERIO
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Betfair have suspended the SC GOP market.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Come on CRUUUZ
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    EPG said:

    No one has previously won NH and SC and failed to win GOP nomination. It's Trump v Clinton. And Trump wins that handily.

    He has huge negative figures, even among his own party, without THAT much in the line of attacks from the Democrats
    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges
    2 national polls this week showed Trump beating Hillary by 2 and losing to Hillary by 3, with Bloomberg in he wins convincingly.

    And those where not Fox News polls that where the only ones previously that showed good numbers for Trump.

    Look at favourabilities:

    Hillary 37/57
    Trump 37/57

    Hillary has fallen to Trump levels.
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    EPG said:

    No one has previously won NH and SC and failed to win GOP nomination. It's Trump v Clinton. And Trump wins that handily.

    He has huge negative figures, even among his own party, without THAT much in the line of attacks from the Democrats
    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges
    You could paint a face on my left testie and it would beat Hillary in the election.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Why does DecisionDesk have different figures to CNN? They have the race much closer.

    http://www.decisiondeskhq.com/south-carolina-gop-primary/
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    AndyJS said:

    Betfair have suspended the SC GOP market.

    But WHHHYYY
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013
    Speedy said:

    EPG said:

    No one has previously won NH and SC and failed to win GOP nomination. It's Trump v Clinton. And Trump wins that handily.

    He has huge negative figures, even among his own party, without THAT much in the line of attacks from the Democrats
    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges
    2 national polls this week showed Trump beating Hillary by 2 and losing to Hillary by 3, with Bloomberg in he wins convincingly.

    And those where not Fox News polls that where the only ones previously that showed good numbers for Trump.

    Look at favourabilities:

    Hillary 37/57
    Trump 37/57

    Hillary has fallen to Trump levels.
    Precisely my point is not that Clinton is currently ahead, but that Trump has further to fall and not just in favourable numbers - for one thing, 100 per cent of Democrats will be behind Clinton
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,097
    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Just possible someone other than Trump wins a CD.

    Wouldn't surprise me either if it's 50-0 to Trump.
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    Kasich now ahead of Bush.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2016

    If Rubio makes it to 2nd I think he's going to get all the "momentum" media coverage, and a bunch of money from the establishment as they give up on Bush. Wouldn't like to bet much ainst him despite Trump's strength.

    Rubio would still theoretically have a chance of winning the nomination if he could consolidate the anti-Trump vote (obviously Kasich and Bush's voters should be his targets, but also I still think he has a chance of picking off some of Cruz's less-hardcore Christians) -- but the problem is it's getting very late in the day for that consolidation to take place in time. By this time in two weeks, nearly 50% of states will have voted already.

    On paper his path to the nomination is there, but he needs all the stars to align, and QUICKLY.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Decision desk and CNN numbers are totally out of whack
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,013

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    Decision desk and CNN numbers are totally out of whack

    Decision Desk has Rubio much higher than CNN.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    Danny565 said:

    If Rubio makes it to 2nd I think he's going to get all the "momentum" media coverage, and a bunch of money from the establishment as they give up on Bush. Wouldn't like to bet much ainst him despite Trump's strength.

    Rubio would still theoretically have a chance of winning the nomination if he could consolidate the anti-Trump vote (obviously Kasich and Bush's voters should be his targets, but also I still think he has a chance of picking off some of Cruz's less-hardcore Christians) -- but the problem is it's getting very late in the day for that consolidation to take place in time. By this time in two weeks, nearly 50% of states will have voted already.

    On paper his path to the nomination is there, but he needs all the stars to align, and QUICKLY.
    Some of Kasich and Bush's voters will go to Trump and Cruz and most of Carson's. No candidate, GOP or Democrat, has lost Iowa, NH and SC and gone on to win their party's nomination, the odds very much do not favour Rubio at this point
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    RodCrosby said:

    Just possible someone other than Trump wins a CD.

    Wouldn't surprise me either if it's 50-0 to Trump.

    I think he will get all 50 delegates, so much for the myth states being proportional before March 15th, the reality is that most states are still winner take all under certain conditions.
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    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Decision desk and CNN numbers are totally out of whack

    Decision Desk has Rubio much higher than CNN.
    CNN moves into line with DD
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    Trump has the same 34% strategy as the Labour party - except it is a winning strategy for Trump.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Speedy said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Just possible someone other than Trump wins a CD.

    Wouldn't surprise me either if it's 50-0 to Trump.

    I think he will get all 50 delegates, so much for the myth states being proportional before March 15th, the reality is that most states are still winner take all under certain conditions.
    Well this one was WTA under quite explicit conditions, moderated only (perhaps) by the cube rule...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    edited February 2016
    Speedy said:

    EPG said:

    No one has previously won NH and SC and failed to win GOP nomination. It's Trump v Clinton. And Trump wins that handily.

    He has huge negative figures, even among his own party, without THAT much in the line of attacks from the Democrats
    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges
    2 national polls this week showed Trump beating Hillary by 2 and losing to Hillary by 3, with Bloomberg in he wins convincingly.

    And those where not Fox News polls that where the only ones previously that showed good numbers for Trump.

    Look at favourabilities:

    Hillary 37/57
    Trump 37/57

    Hillary has fallen to Trump levels.
    Fox news this week had Hillary beating Trump by 5% and Bloomberg will likely not run against Hillary. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/02/18/fox-news-poll-trump-still-leads-national-race-for-gop-nomination.html

    It will be close but I think Hillary beats Trump by about 1% or less
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,097
    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    I'm not sure Jeb -> Rubio is a 1:1 transfer, Rubio comes across as way more right wing.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm not sure Jeb -> Rubio is a 1:1 transfer, Rubio comes across as way more right wing.

    There's a reason for that - he is way more right wing.
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    Pulpstar said:

    I'm not sure Jeb -> Rubio is a 1:1 transfer, Rubio comes across as way more right wing.

    Never in the history of politics has there been a 1:1 transfer. Not even where you get multiple votes.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Kasich close to leapfrogging Bush.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm not sure Jeb -> Rubio is a 1:1 transfer, Rubio comes across as way more right wing.

    Rubio will probably get 80% of Bush votes, Kasich the other 20, maybe Trump will get some crumbs.

    But Bush doesn't have many votes, apart from Florida he is usually at 2,3,4%.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Donald Trump is an implied 3.3 right now for Pres !!
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    Danny565 said:

    Kasich close to leapfrogging Bush.

    Kasich has barely bothered to turn up.

    Also why oh why is betfair down?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    Danny565 said:

    Kasich close to leapfrogging Bush.

    Kasich just tweeted he is staying in at least until Super Tuesday, bad news for Rubio

    'We're hitting up four states over the next four days. In VA, GA, MS or LA? Check out our events page to RSVP! '
    https://twitter.com/JohnKasich?lang=en-gb
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    The media narrative might be all Rubio and the GOP establishment will be cheering him on but what states does he actually win on Super Tuesday? Not as many as Trump or Cruz thats for sure. The race for the nomination is over. Trump's won.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Kasich close to leapfrogging Bush.

    Kasich just tweeted he is staying in at least until Super Tuesday, bad news for Rubio

    'We're hitting up four states over the next four days. In VA, GA, MS or LA? Check out our events page to RSVP! '
    https://twitter.com/JohnKasich?lang=en-gb
    The Others just continue to cancel each other out...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    Hispanics, minorities and women will win it for Hillary
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
    Says who?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Arf Rubio and Cruz identical
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    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Kasich close to leapfrogging Bush.

    Kasich just tweeted he is staying in at least until Super Tuesday, bad news for Rubio

    'We're hitting up four states over the next four days. In VA, GA, MS or LA? Check out our events page to RSVP! '
    https://twitter.com/JohnKasich?lang=en-gb
    The Others just continue to cancel each other out...
    Christie said his trip to SC was already booked.

    Basically you're in until you aren't.

    Having said that Kasich has barely tried here, so that's different from Christie who poured everything into NH
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
    Says who?
    Punters judging by their implied odds.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Arf Rubio and Cruz identical

    DD keeps showing Rubio ahead...

    I'm cashing out at a small loss so my win on Trump can stand.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2016
    Looking at Super Tuesday, Kasich could maybe win Vermont? Left-wing state with a primary open to all voters. Doesn't seem like great territory for the "Big 3".

    He ain't winning the nomination obviously, but I guess he may as well stay in to make a pitch for the VP spot / a future presidential run.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    It's confirmed Trump will get all 50 delegates.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    0.2% separating Cruz and Rubio.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Speedy said:

    It's confirmed Trump will get all 50 delegates.

    Confirmed by who?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Trump is going to CRUSH Nevada. He's a massive employer there for one./
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    It seems the endorsement by all elected officials, except Sanford and Graham, and every local media for Rubio got him an extra 7 points.

    So endorsements matter, but only in close races.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2016
    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    Hispanics, minorities and women will win it for Hillary
    It might be difficult for Hillary to maintain the same level of turnout among minorities that Obama did.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Pong said:

    Speedy said:

    It's confirmed Trump will get all 50 delegates.

    Confirmed by who?
    MSNBC.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Danny565 said:

    Looking at Super Tuesday, Kasich could maybe win Vermont? Left-wing state with a primary open to all voters. Doesn't seem like great territory for the "Big 3".

    He ain't winning the nomination obviously, but I guess he may as well stay in to make a pitch for the VP spot / a future presidential run.

    Trump is leading in Vermont by a lot.

    The only state that Trump is losing in the polls is Texas, and that one to Cruz.
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    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    Hispanics, minorities and women will win it for Hillary
    Nothing like taking your voters for granted. Without Obama on the ticket Dem turnout will be lower. Ohio and Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Florida all go Trump he wins.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
    Says who?
    Punters judging by their implied odds.
    Ignore them. The last DEM to win an election after 2 (or more) previous terms was almost 70 years ago, and he was a new incumbent...

    Only one non-incumbent DEM has achieved it. Van Buren in 1836, and he at least was Veep.

    It's the GOP's to lose.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Speedy said:

    It seems the endorsement by all elected officials, except Sanford and Graham, and every local media for Rubio got him an extra 7 points.

    So endorsements matter, but only in close races.

    Haley's approval rating is almost 90%. Sen. Tim Scott also has sky high approval ratings. I think it depends who and where it is. The dream endorsements used to be local papers, but no more.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Trump defended planned parenthood in the last debate, and he's winning amongst evangelicals in South Carolina.

    THAT is astounding
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited February 2016
    Speedy said:

    Pong said:

    Speedy said:

    It's confirmed Trump will get all 50 delegates.

    Confirmed by who?
    MSNBC.
    Oh dear. That's hardly even a news outfit.

    But the winner takes all in SC
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    Cruz back to 2nd.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    Pulpstar said:

    Trump defended planned parenthood in the last debate, and he's winning amongst evangelicals in South Carolina.

    THAT is astounding

    Though he has now said he is pro life and has threatened to sue Cruz for suggesting otherwise
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Bush less than 5,000 votes ahead of Carson in sixth place.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    @Tim_B Decided who you're voting for, and where if I may ask. TimT was Georgia/Rubio iirc..
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Trump defended planned parenthood in the last debate, and he's winning amongst evangelicals in South Carolina.

    THAT is astounding

    Though he has now said he is pro life and has threatened to sue Cruz for suggesting otherwise
    Sounds reasonable to me.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    Hispanics, minorities and women will win it for Hillary
    Nothing like taking your voters for granted. Without Obama on the ticket Dem turnout will be lower. Ohio and Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Florida all go Trump he wins.
    No, wrong. Hispanics despise Trump and would vote for Satan if he was on the ballot against him, women will also vote for Hillary over Trump, though Trump will win white men by a large margin. North Carolina and Florida go to Trump, maybe New Hampshire, Colorado and Iowa too but Hillary wins Nevada, Ohio and Pennsylvania and Virginia, enough for a narrow Clinton win
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    Hispanics, minorities and women will win it for Hillary
    Nothing like taking your voters for granted. Without Obama on the ticket Dem turnout will be lower. Ohio and Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Florida all go Trump he wins.
    No, wrong. Hispanics despise Trump and would vote for Satan if he was on the ballot against him, women will also vote for Hillary over Trump, though Trump will win white men by a large margin. North Carolina and Florida go to Trump, maybe New Hampshire, Colorado and Iowa too but Hillary wins Nevada, Ohio and Pennsylvania and Virginia, enough for a narrow Clinton win
    Florida?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    edited February 2016
    RodCrosby said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
    Says who?
    Punters judging by their implied odds.
    Ignore them. The last DEM to win an election after 2 (or more) previous terms was almost 70 years ago, and he was a new incumbent...

    Only one non-incumbent DEM has achieved it. Van Buren in 1836, and he at least was Veep.

    It's the GOP's to lose.
    Yes, well looks like they are quite willing to lose it!!! If Rubio or Kascih were GOP nominee the GOP would almost certainly win, Trump or Cruz offers the Dems a get out of jail free card! Bush Snr also managed it for the GOP in 1988
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,097
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    Hispanics, minorities and women will win it for Hillary
    Nothing like taking your voters for granted. Without Obama on the ticket Dem turnout will be lower. Ohio and Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Florida all go Trump he wins.
    No, wrong. Hispanics despise Trump and would vote for Satan if he was on the ballot against him, women will also vote for Hillary over Trump, though Trump will win white men by a large margin. North Carolina and Florida go to Trump, maybe New Hampshire, Colorado and Iowa too but Hillary wins Nevada, Ohio and Pennsylvania and Virginia, enough for a narrow Clinton win
    Not true.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/12/breaking-poll-40-of-blacks-line-behind-trump-45-of-hispanics/

    Trump will not do worse than Romney with these groups.
  • Options
    With the (currently) Six Cabinet Ministers lined up with Vote Leave does that increase their chance of being the 'official' Electoral Commission body? Instead of 'Barking' or 'Whining' ('Moaning' - the Nats already have 'Whining' - ed)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Jeb's votes will split to Kasich, Rubio and Trump methinks.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited February 2016
    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
    Says who?
    Punters judging by their implied odds.
    Ignore them. The last DEM to win an election after 2 (or more) previous terms was almost 70 years ago, and he was a new incumbent...

    Only one non-incumbent DEM has achieved it. Van Buren in 1836, and he at least was Veep.

    It's the GOP's to lose.
    Yes, well looks like they are quite willing to lose it!!! If Rubio or Kascih were GOP nominee the GOP would almost certainly win, Trump or Cruz offers the Dems a get out of jail free card! Bush Snr also managed it for the GOP in 1988
    You forget Clinton, who cancels any toxicity in the GOP candidate.

    She trumps Trump in that department!

    Besides, candidates are shown to have negligible impact on the fundamentals of the cycle...
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Pulpstar said:

    Jeb's votes will split to Kasich, Rubio and Trump methinks.

    Mostly to Kasich and Rubio, in that order. Don't think there'll be many going to Trump or Cruz.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
    Says who?
    The polls. Rubio leads Clinton by 4.7% in the RCP poll average, Clinton leads Trump by 2.8%. Rubio and Sanders are tied, Sanders leads Trump by 7.8%
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Tim_B said:

    Speedy said:

    It seems the endorsement by all elected officials, except Sanford and Graham, and every local media for Rubio got him an extra 7 points.

    So endorsements matter, but only in close races.

    Haley's approval rating is almost 90%. Sen. Tim Scott also has sky high approval ratings. I think it depends who and where it is. The dream endorsements used to be local papers, but no more.
    And that was worth only 7%.
    I told you that the Haley endorsement isn't worth much, it didn't give victory to Romney in 2012 and it didn't for Rubio in 2016.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    @Tim_B Decided who you're voting for, and where if I may ask. TimT was Georgia/Rubio iirc..

    I'm the one who lives in GA. TimT lives in the DC suburbs. He - I think, but he can speak for himself - is a Rubio / Kasich supporter.

    I haven't decided yet. I'll be spending next week going to a lot of meetings.

    I wish I could find my post comparing TimB and TimT to remove any confusion.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    Hispanics, minorities and women will win it for Hillary
    Nothing like taking your voters for granted. Without Obama on the ticket Dem turnout will be lower. Ohio and Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Florida all go Trump he wins.
    No, wrong. Hispanics despise Trump and would vote for Satan if he was on the ballot against him, women will also vote for Hillary over Trump, though Trump will win white men by a large margin. North Carolina and Florida go to Trump, maybe New Hampshire, Colorado and Iowa too but Hillary wins Nevada, Ohio and Pennsylvania and Virginia, enough for a narrow Clinton win
    Ohio and Pennsylvania blue-collar W/C voters will give them to Trump (no matter how often they wheel out Bill and Biden. Virginia trending GOP, Nevada - Trump casinos - it goes Trump. Trump wins (and he doesnt need to try particularly hard)
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Looks like Bush has spent around $230 per vote won. $14 million for about 60,000 votes.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    MTimT said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jeb's votes will split to Kasich, Rubio and Trump methinks.

    Mostly to Kasich and Rubio, in that order. Don't think there'll be many going to Trump or Cruz.
    Bush doesn't have many votes, he has 3% in Nevada, 5% nationally.
    That's why those who drop out dont matter a lot since they already have very few votes.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
    Says who?
    The polls. Rubio leads Clinton by 4.7% in the RCP poll average, Clinton leads Trump by 2.8%. Rubio and Sanders are tied, Sanders leads Trump by 7.8%
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
    National polls based on hypothetical match-ups this far out are even more meaningless than usual; its state polls that matter.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    The CNN anchor is great.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
    Says who?
    The polls. Rubio leads Clinton by 4.7% in the RCP poll average, Clinton leads Trump by 2.8%. Rubio and Sanders are tied, Sanders leads Trump by 7.8%
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
    If all you needed was the polls, you wouldn't need PB and its successful contrarian pundits now, would you?

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    edited February 2016

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    Hispanics, minorities and women will win it for Hillary
    Nothing like taking your voters for granted. Without Obama on the ticket Dem turnout will be lower. Ohio and Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Florida all go Trump he wins.
    No, wrong. Hispanics despise Trump and would vote for Satan if he was on the ballot against him, women will also vote for Hillary over Trump, though Trump will win white men by a large margin. North Carolina and Florida go to Trump, maybe New Hampshire, Colorado and Iowa too but Hillary wins Nevada, Ohio and Pennsylvania and Virginia, enough for a narrow Clinton win
    Not true.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/12/breaking-poll-40-of-blacks-line-behind-trump-45-of-hispanics/

    Trump will not do worse than Romney with these groups.
    No, the statement was correct. The Quinnipiac general election poll last week had Trump winning just 17% of Hispanics against Hillary, Rubio won 30% of Hispanics. Romney won 27% of the Hispanic vote in 2012 so Trump does 10% worse than he did!
    http://www.quinnipiac.edu/images/polling/us/us02182016_Urpfd42.pdf
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Tim_B said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @Tim_B Decided who you're voting for, and where if I may ask. TimT was Georgia/Rubio iirc..

    I'm the one who lives in GA. TimT lives in the DC suburbs. He - I think, but he can speak for himself - is a Rubio / Kasich supporter.

    I haven't decided yet. I'll be spending next week going to a lot of meetings.
    Ah my apologies !
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Greenville and Spartanburg will decide who comes second.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    JEB BUSH DROPPING OUT.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Bush drops out.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    If you've got the capital, lay Jeb Bush at any price about to suspend
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Speedy said:

    Bush drops out.

    As I predicted a couple of hours ago.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Wow. Bush gone.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075
    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
    Says who?
    The polls. Rubio leads Clinton by 4.7% in the RCP poll average, Clinton leads Trump by 2.8%. Rubio and Sanders are tied, Sanders leads Trump by 7.8%
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
    If all you needed was the polls, you wouldn't need PB and its successful contrarian pundits now, would you?

    Indeed but until the evidence changes I will go on the evidence we have, delightful though these arguments are
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    CNN: 60 votes separating Rubio and Cruz.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,075

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
    Says who?
    The polls. Rubio leads Clinton by 4.7% in the RCP poll average, Clinton leads Trump by 2.8%. Rubio and Sanders are tied, Sanders leads Trump by 7.8%
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
    National polls based on hypothetical match-ups this far out are even more meaningless than usual; its state polls that matter.
    Only once has the loser of the popular vote won the EC vote in the last 50 years, George W Bush and he lost the popular vote by less than 1%
  • Options
    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,780
    I like Jeb Bush.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Clinton has had all the attacks from the Republicans already; she wins if she is not subjected to criminal charges

    She's never had to face someone with Trump's gift for trolling. She backed off very quickly when he showed he was willing to bring up the details of her past as a fixer for her husband.
    That is one way to look at it - another way is that she insulted him, he insulted her, scores even - I don't think that it will be a surfeit of negatives from Democrats but a deficit of positives among Republicans that will defeat Trump qua nominee
    It's a geographic election. Trump will win over enough Reagan democrats in the flyover states to swing the election. It won't matter if some Republicans aren't willing to hold their nose and vote Trump because they'll all be in the places where Clinton will pile up votes anyway.
    The pendulum, aka regressive component, favours the GOP massively in 2016.

    my first long-range 2016 forecast...

    REP 53.4% 353
    DEM 46.6% 185


    If Kasich or Rubio were the GOP candidate it would favour them, but if it is Trump and Cruz then it does not and Hillary must be favourite to narrowly win
    Says who?
    The polls. Rubio leads Clinton by 4.7% in the RCP poll average, Clinton leads Trump by 2.8%. Rubio and Sanders are tied, Sanders leads Trump by 7.8%
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
    If all you needed was the polls, you wouldn't need PB and its successful contrarian pundits now, would you?

    Indeed but until the evidence changes I will go on the evidence we have, delightful though these arguments are
    Polls at this stage are not evidence of anything - except perhaps too many polls...
This discussion has been closed.