Hang on. I'm confused about the four years and seven years. So it's a four year restriction on claiming benefits, but eventually that rule will end after seven years? Thanks Dave, but no deal.
The restriction will end in 2028 by which time the UK will no doubt have amended the benefit system to a pay in get out basis
George Galloway? The Leave side want to woo Tory waverers with George Galloway???
Well he could win Leave some of the Socialist Worker vote!
Well, if you want to gain left wing votes for Leave, you have to be willing to work with left wing people, horrible as it may seem. Leave can't be an exclusively right wing campaign.
Leave's problem is that there is virtually noone from the soft left onboard. Kate Hoey has always seen to be at odds with the Labour leadership anyway and is too low profile. I was wondering if my MP, Natascha Engel might come out for "Leave" (Some of her voting patterns have been euroscpetic before she became Ways and means) but it seems she is remain. The void from moderate Labour is enourmous, and Leave's biggest problem.
And they thought someone who is practically a fascist would help, did they? FFS!
It shows a complete lack of political awareness about the "left" from GO to my mind.
Bone: "We need someone from the left"
Farage: "Oh I know, lets invite Galloway"
Bone: "Great idea ! Lefties love Galloway !"
You'd be thought Hoey would have known a bit about it?
Hmm I reckon Farage is calling the shots, Bone 2nd in command there.
Masterful nonsense from Cameron on the second referendum question. "People who want to leave should have the confidence to vote for that and not for something else!" Yes, but the question is whether people who want to stay should vote Leave in the hope of a more significant renegotiation.
It was certainly pretty damned stupid to have bigged up his "surprise speaker" status at the top of the bill. How many of those who walked thought it was going to be Boris?
To be fair, the surprise was bigger than it would have been if it had been Boris.
Hang on. I'm confused about the four years and seven years. So it's a four year restriction on claiming benefits, but eventually that rule will end after seven years? Thanks Dave, but no deal.
The restriction will end in 2028 by which time the UK will no doubt have amended the benefit system to a pay in get out basis
Not if Labour are back in power before then! I'd have more respect for the Tories if they went down the road of cutting benefits for everyone and not relying on the EU being nice to us.
Trying to have a conversation with felix reminds me of negotiating with this guy back in 1992-95 when he was Iraqi Foreign Minister (before becoming our beloved comical Minister of Information on the roof of the Palestine Hotel).
I've been on a flight and missed all the excitement. What emotions have I missed?
Astonishment, mainly.
Lets ignore Galloway and that earlier SC poll - and cheer ourselves up with this: Latest Emerson tracking poll in SC GOP: Trump 36% Rubio 20% Cruz 19% Bush 10% Kasich 10% Carson 6%
George Galloway? The Leave side want to woo Tory waverers with George Galloway???
Well he could win Leave some of the Socialist Worker vote!
Well, if you want to gain left wing votes for Leave, you have to be willing to work with left wing people, horrible as it may seem. Leave can't be an exclusively right wing campaign.
Leave's problem is that there is virtually noone from the soft left onboard. Kate Hoey has always seen to be at odds with the Labour leadership anyway and is too low profile. I was wondering if my MP, Natascha Engel might come out for "Leave" (Some of her voting patterns have been euroscpetic before she became Ways and means) but it seems she is remain. The void from moderate Labour is enourmous, and Leave's biggest problem.
I don't actually know much about internal Labour divisions and who is left/right etc within the party except for the very obvious ones. But Labour LEAVE supporters include
Gisella Stuart Kelvin Hopkins Jon Cryer Kate Hoey Graham Stringer Roger Godsiff Khalid Mahmood
Hang on. I'm confused about the four years and seven years. So it's a four year restriction on claiming benefits, but eventually that rule will end after seven years? Thanks Dave, but no deal.
The restriction will end in 2028 by which time the UK will no doubt have amended the benefit system to a pay in get out basis
Not if Labour are back in power before then! I'd have more respect for the Tories if they went down the road of cutting benefits for everyone and not relying on the EU being nice to us.
Labour will be lucky to be back in power before 2030
George Galloway? The Leave side want to woo Tory waverers with George Galloway???
Well he could win Leave some of the Socialist Worker vote!
Well, if you want to gain left wing votes for Leave, you have to be willing to work with left wing people, horrible as it may seem. Leave can't be an exclusively right wing campaign.
Leave's problem is that there is virtually noone from the soft left onboard. Kate Hoey has always seen to be at odds with the Labour leadership anyway and is too low profile. I was wondering if my MP, Natascha Engel might come out for "Leave" (Some of her voting patterns have been euroscpetic before she became Ways and means) but it seems she is remain. The void from moderate Labour is enourmous, and Leave's biggest problem.
And they thought someone who is practically a fascist would help, did they? FFS!
It shows a complete lack of political awareness about the "left" from GO to my mind.
Bone: "We need someone from the left"
Farage: "Oh I know, lets invite Galloway"
Bone: "Great idea ! Lefties love Galloway !"
IMO, Leave should be wooing Owen Jones to get the youth/Guardianista vote, and someone like Prescott or Blunkett to win over the traditional Labour vote.
I've been on a flight and missed all the excitement. What emotions have I missed?
Astonishment, mainly.
Lets ignore Galloway and that earlier SC poll - and cheer ourselves up with this: Latest Emerson tracking poll in SC GOP: Trump 36% Rubio 20% Cruz 19% Bush 10% Kasich 10% Carson 6%
I've been on a flight and missed all the excitement. What emotions have I missed?
A zen-like calm has prevailed all evening.
What on earth are you talking about? There was the sensational revelation that we may actually be getting an AV-related thread this weekend
Sunil J. Prasannan is calling for a total and complete shut-down of AV threads entering PB.com, until our forum's representatives can work out what the hell is going on!
George Galloway? The Leave side want to woo Tory waverers with George Galloway???
Well he could win Leave some of the Socialist Worker vote!
Well, if you want to gain left wing votes for Leave, you have to be willing to work with left wing people, horrible as it may seem. Leave can't be an exclusively right wing campaign.
Leave's problem is that there is virtually noone from the soft left onboard. Kate Hoey has always seen to be at odds with the Labour leadership anyway and is too low profile. I was wondering if my MP, Natascha Engel might come out for "Leave" (Some of her voting patterns have been euroscpetic before she became Ways and means) but it seems she is remain. The void from moderate Labour is enourmous, and Leave's biggest problem.
And they thought someone who is practically a fascist would help, did they? FFS!
It shows a complete lack of political awareness about the "left" from GO to my mind.
Bone: "We need someone from the left"
Farage: "Oh I know, lets invite Galloway"
Bone: "Great idea ! Lefties love Galloway !"
IMO, Leave should be wooing Owen Jones to get the youth/Guardianista vote, and someone like Prescott or Blunkett to win over the traditional Labour vote.
Is Owen Jones an outer ? - I know he gets alot of flak on here, but he can appeal to a certain constituency.
George Galloway? The Leave side want to woo Tory waverers with George Galloway???
Well he could win Leave some of the Socialist Worker vote!
Well, if you want to gain left wing votes for Leave, you have to be willing to work with left wing people, horrible as it may seem. Leave can't be an exclusively right wing campaign.
Leave's problem is that there is virtually noone from the soft left onboard. Kate Hoey has always seen to be at odds with the Labour leadership anyway and is too low profile. I was wondering if my MP, Natascha Engel might come out for "Leave" (Some of her voting patterns have been euroscpetic before she became Ways and means) but it seems she is remain. The void from moderate Labour is enourmous, and Leave's biggest problem.
I don't actually know much about internal Labour divisions and who is left/right etc within the party except for the very obvious ones. But Labour LEAVE supporters include
Gisella Stuart Kelvin Hopkins Jon Cryer Kate Hoey Graham Stringer Roger Godsiff Khalid Mahmood
That's most of my favourite Labour MPs.
What about Ian Lavery ?
I think there are others certainly. But these are the ones who are active in either the Labour Europe Safeguards group or Labour Leave.
Along with Mr Skinner of course who seems to follow Marx's rule when it comes to clubs. And this is a rare case where I probably have to confirm I am talking Groucho not Karl. :-)
If - and it is of course a big if - that snapshot that the FT and Telegraph are showing is all there is for safeguarding the city against the Eurozone then I do wonder what Boris will make of it?
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 9m9 minutes ago PM: emergency brake could start in 2017 - that's taking into account European Parliament legislative process - but well after referendum
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 3m3 minutes ago PM: we accept free movement, we've been clear, but this helps us change important aspects of how welfare and migration interact
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 28m28 minutes ago I do not love Brussels I love Britain - PM
I've been on a flight and missed all the excitement. What emotions have I missed?
Astonishment, mainly.
Lets ignore Galloway and that earlier SC poll - and cheer ourselves up with this: Latest Emerson tracking poll in SC GOP: Trump 36% Rubio 20% Cruz 19% Bush 10% Kasich 10% Carson 6%
George Galloway? The Leave side want to woo Tory waverers with George Galloway???
Well he could win Leave some of the Socialist Worker vote!
Well, if you want to gain left wing votes for Leave, you have to be willing to work with left wing people, horrible as it may seem. Leave can't be an exclusively right wing campaign.
Leave's problem is that there is virtually noone from the soft left onboard. Kate Hoey has always seen to be at odds with the Labour leadership anyway and is too low profile. I was wondering if my MP, Natascha Engel might come out for "Leave" (Some of her voting patterns have been euroscpetic before she became Ways and means) but it seems she is remain. The void from moderate Labour is enourmous, and Leave's biggest problem.
And they thought someone who is practically a fascist would help, did they? FFS!
It shows a complete lack of political awareness about the "left" from GO to my mind.
Bone: "We need someone from the left"
Farage: "Oh I know, lets invite Galloway"
Bone: "Great idea ! Lefties love Galloway !"
IMO, Leave should be wooing Owen Jones to get the youth/Guardianista vote, and someone like Prescott or Blunkett to win over the traditional Labour vote.
Is Owen Jones an outer ? - I know he gets alot of flak on here, but he can appeal to a certain constituency.
George Galloway? The Leave side want to woo Tory waverers with George Galloway???
Well he could win Leave some of the Socialist Worker vote!
Well, if you want to gain left wing votes for Leave, you have to be willing to work with left wing people, horrible as it may seem. Leave can't be an exclusively right wing campaign.
Leave's problem is that there is virtually noone from the soft left onboard. Kate Hoey has always seen to be at odds with the Labour leadership anyway and is too low profile. I was wondering if my MP, Natascha Engel might come out for "Leave" (Some of her voting patterns have been euroscpetic before she became Ways and means) but it seems she is remain. The void from moderate Labour is enourmous, and Leave's biggest problem.
And they thought someone who is practically a fascist would help, did they? FFS!
It shows a complete lack of political awareness about the "left" from GO to my mind.
Bone: "We need someone from the left"
Farage: "Oh I know, lets invite Galloway"
Bone: "Great idea ! Lefties love Galloway !"
IMO, Leave should be wooing Owen Jones to get the youth/Guardianista vote, and someone like Prescott or Blunkett to win over the traditional Labour vote.
Is Owen Jones an outer ? - I know he gets alot of flak on here, but he can appeal to a certain constituency.
I think "O-Jo" has publicly flirted with an Out vote in the past. Though he can often come across annoyingly sanctimonious sometimes, he does IMO cut through to the Yoof more than most politicians, and CERTAINLY a hell of a lot more than Farage and co.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 9m9 minutes ago PM: emergency brake could start in 2017 - that's taking into account European Parliament legislative process - but well after referendum.
So what happens when we vote to stay in the EU and then this doesn't happen?
What does George Galloway bring to Leave that Frank Field and Kate Hoey don't?
You do remember Galloway campaigned for NO during IndyRef in 2014?
I do, but that wasn't my fight. That was a matter for Scots.
Really? I remember you being rather vocal about it on here at the time.
I wanted Scotland to remain a part of the Union, in the same way I want Leicester to win the Premier League
The form of the current Leicester team is good for Football. In the same way Scotland is good for the Union and the Union is good for Scotland. I have no desire to play hamfisted sick jokes with the future of my country... unlike Grassroots Out!
I think we can, with great confidence, conclude that the divisions between Leave.EU/GO and Vote.Leave are not going to heal any time soon.
Half of these people campaigning to LEAVE really want to stay (the likes of Farage for example, who is firmly on the EU gravy train, while hating every minute of it )
We need a huge, popular personality who really wants to leave and isn't concerned about anything else, to come on the scene and take the LEAVE campaign by the scruff of the neck.
Unfortunately I don't think there's anybody who can do it. So, REMAIN probably wins narrowly, and Cameron and Osborne (and whoever comes after them) will see it as the green light to go "further and faster" into the Superstate.
UK in the Euro by 2030?
As soon as a "Huge Popular Personality" comes out for Leave they stop being a huge popular personality and look like a fruitcake
I can't get too excited about tonight's rally. We already knew Leave leaders lacked judgement. That should have been priced in.
This is what a Eurosceptic looks like Spokesmen? Well there's Gove, a lady from Northern Ireland who is somehow Labour's main Eurosceptic, and the loopers...
I've been on a flight and missed all the excitement. What emotions have I missed?
It's like been the last days of the Roman empire, but without the booze, sex, orgies, and violence.
Fantastic analogy Screaming Eagles! As I've said before, Schengen has collapsed and the rest is a domino effect waiting to go down like the Titanic....and this so called agreement is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Meanwhile amidst all the smoke and mirrors on this so called agreement, Christine Lagarde has been won a second term unopposed at the IMF, part of the unelected troika that largely governs European affairs these days.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 9m9 minutes ago PM: emergency brake could start in 2017 - that's taking into account European Parliament legislative process - but well after referendum.
So what happens when we vote to stay in the EU and then this doesn't happen?
They will say "oopps, too late", or a more civilized version of this:
I think we can, with great confidence, conclude that the divisions between Leave.EU/GO and Vote.Leave are not going to heal any time soon.
Half of these people campaigning to LEAVE really want to stay (the likes of Farage for example, who is firmly on the EU gravy train, while hating every minute of it )
We need a huge, popular personality who really wants to leave and isn't concerned about anything else, to come on the scene and take the LEAVE campaign by the scruff of the neck.
Unfortunately I don't think there's anybody who can do it. So, REMAIN probably wins narrowly, and Cameron and Osborne (and whoever comes after them) will see it as the green light to go "further and faster" into the Superstate.
UK in the Euro by 2030?
You are self evidently deranged.
Wait and see what the establishment does when we vote to remain... Will be seen as the green light to go further and faster.
Cameron's will probably be had enough of trying to sell the EU to the British people after the referendum to be fair, but you can bet your life Osborne will he hankering to "integrate" further if he becomes PM.
And lets think what happens when Labour gets back in to power with someone like Ummuna.
I really think it's possible the establishment will have us in the Euro within most of our lifetimes after we vote to remain. That's the End Game surely?
A few months back in the first round of the French local elections Le Pen did well. And what happened? In the second round everyone else rallied round to ensure that her party did not win control of regions.
If you pollute a reasonable argument with revolting people, you lose. It's the emotional vs the rational brain, as MTimT explained earlier.
And people generally decide on emotion rather than reason.
Spot on. I am VERY angry about this. Very fucking angry.
Hang on. I'm confused about the four years and seven years. So it's a four year restriction on claiming benefits, but eventually that rule will end after seven years? Thanks Dave, but no deal.
The restriction will end in 2028 by which time the UK will no doubt have amended the benefit system to a pay in get out basis
The present government is busy doing its best to make significant cuts to benefits. I suppose people could always vote Labour.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 9m9 minutes ago PM: emergency brake could start in 2017 - that's taking into account European Parliament legislative process - but well after referendum.
So what happens when we vote to stay in the EU and then this doesn't happen?
They will say "oopps, too late", or a more civilized version of this:
I can't get too excited about tonight's rally. We already knew Leave leaders lacked judgement. That should have been priced in.
This is what a Eurosceptic looks like Spokesmen? Well there's Gove, a lady from Northern Ireland who is somehow Labour's main Eurosceptic, and the loopers...
And proberly thousands of labour voters,not to forget them.
If that does turn out to be the case it will certainly drag things back for LEAVE.
The really infuriating thing about today is that if you ignore the Galloway fiasco (a big ask I know but bear with me) then it has been a fantastic day for LEAVE. Gove coming off the fence in our favour and Cameron's deal turning out to be even worse than advertised. This should have been a day to celebrate.
It can be saved over the weekend if Boris and Priti join Michael, hopefully along with at least a couple more cabinet members. We will have to see.
Does anyone know about the opening up of the market to services. I've read before that the EU doesn't do free trade with things like financial services. Cameron says that he's made progress on this - do we have any details and has he got anything worthwhile?
George Galloway? The Leave side want to woo Tory waverers with George Galloway???
Well he could win Leave some of the Socialist Worker vote!
Well, if you want to gain left wing votes for Leave, you have to be willing to work with left wing people, horrible as it may seem. Leave can't be an exclusively right wing campaign.
Yes but to be fair there are other Eurosceptics they could have chosen. Skinner is supporting LEAVE. Galloway could have supported LEAVE in the streets and townhalls without having to be splashed all over the main stage.
It was certainly pretty damned stupid to have bigged up his "surprise speaker" status at the top of the bill. How many of those who walked thought it was going to be Boris?
A lot.
The problem is that it was heavily trailed to be a Tory bigwig, the thinking was either a (new) cabinet minister or Boris.
Even if that was never the case, you never ever ever ever make your SPECIAL guest George FUCKING Galloway.
I think we can, with great confidence, conclude that the divisions between Leave.EU/GO and Vote.Leave are not going to heal any time soon.
Half of these people campaigning to LEAVE really want to stay (the likes of Farage for example, who is firmly on the EU gravy train, while hating every minute of it )
We need a huge, popular personality who really wants to leave and isn't concerned about anything else, to come on the scene and take the LEAVE campaign by the scruff of the neck.
Unfortunately I don't think there's anybody who can do it. So, REMAIN probably wins narrowly, and Cameron and Osborne (and whoever comes after them) will see it as the green light to go "further and faster" into the Superstate.
UK in the Euro by 2030?
You are self evidently deranged.
Wait and see what the establishment does when we vote to remain... Will be seen as the green light to go further and faster.
Cameron's will probably be had enough of trying to sell the EU to the British people after the referendum to be fair, but you can bet your life Osborne will he hankering to "integrate" further if he becomes PM.
And lets think what happens when Labour gets back in to power with someone like Ummuna.
I really think it's possible the establishment will have us in the Euro within most of our lifetimes after we vote to remain. That's the End Game surely?
I will draw a veil over your rant. Not that you deserve it.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 9m9 minutes ago PM: emergency brake could start in 2017 - that's taking into account European Parliament legislative process - but well after referendum.
So what happens when we vote to stay in the EU and then this doesn't happen?
They will say "oopps, too late", or a more civilized version of this:
A few months back in the first round of the French local elections Le Pen did well. And what happened? In the second round everyone else rallied round to ensure that her party did not win control of regions.
If you pollute a reasonable argument with revolting people, you lose. It's the emotional vs the rational brain, as MTimT explained earlier.
And people generally decide on emotion rather than reason.
Spot on. I am VERY angry about this. Very fucking angry.
Wankers.
Don't rush to judgment, The Galloway thing was given no worse than neutral coverage on the News and Newsnight.
This whole campaign could take on a life of its own and lead to some very unpredictable places. Think of the Corbyn election. Who would have thought it? LEAVE could turn into a great vote against the Establishment and all its works.
I think we can, with great confidence, conclude that the divisions between Leave.EU/GO and Vote.Leave are not going to heal any time soon.
Half of these people campaigning to LEAVE really want to stay (the likes of Farage for example, who is firmly on the EU gravy train, while hating every minute of it )
We need a huge, popular personality who really wants to leave and isn't concerned about anything else, to come on the scene and take the LEAVE campaign by the scruff of the neck.
Unfortunately I don't think there's anybody who can do it. So, REMAIN probably wins narrowly, and Cameron and Osborne (and whoever comes after them) will see it as the green light to go "further and faster" into the Superstate.
UK in the Euro by 2030?
80% of the country does not want the Euro, 95% of the Tory Party, not going to happen however EU ref goes!!
If that does turn out to be the case it will certainly drag things back for LEAVE.
The really infuriating thing about today is that if you ignore the Galloway fiasco (a big ask I know but bear with me) then it has been a fantastic day for LEAVE. Gove coming off the fence in our favour and Cameron's deal turning out to be even worse than advertised. This should have been a day to celebrate.
It can be saved over the weekend if Boris and Priti join Michael, hopefully along with at least a couple more cabinet members. We will have to see.
And still, the Leavers go on with this Tory-centric view of the world, blissfully unaware that Labour voters are essential for a win. Your funeral I suppose.
If that does turn out to be the case it will certainly drag things back for LEAVE.
The really infuriating thing about today is that if you ignore the Galloway fiasco (a big ask I know but bear with me) then it has been a fantastic day for LEAVE. Gove coming off the fence in our favour and Cameron's deal turning out to be even worse than advertised. This should have been a day to celebrate.
It can be saved over the weekend if Boris and Priti join Michael, hopefully along with at least a couple more cabinet members. We will have to see.
Ignoring Galloway today was shaping up to be really good for Leave. Galloway is not doubt damaging but he isn't on the front pages tomorrow. Far more people will wake up to see Gove's name across every front page.
Rightly so. I do believe this is a calamity for LEAVE.
I'm feeling sad. I wanted a proper, close debate and then to make a proper, tightly contested decision. But it now looks foregone.
Pffff.
I've been burying my head in my hands, angrily, over the past hour.
I don't know who was in on this "surprise" but it'll go down as one of the stupidest decisions in political history.
It's clear: Farage doesn't want to win.
Prick.
Everyone else on tonight presumably also knew who the surprise guest was. You can't just blame Nigel Farage. David Davis , eg, is culpable also.
David Davis the worst prime minister we never had. He also works out as the best advert for Vergin Trains. PS Mr Meeks.... To me its not that they thought he would be a good ally. That's bad enough for their nouse and attention span. They, whoever they were, actually thought he would be a good surprise guest and top of the bill headline act speaker. 'Dur... Huh?' These people are imbicilles and we are expected to treat them as people of knowledge?
I presume the MEPs still have to vote on this to approve the agreement...... After the referendum of course.
Yes. This is by no means water tight at all. It is also possible that legislatures in a number of other EU countries could vote it down even if their PM/President has agreed it
Is there any reason why Dan Hannan isn't leading the Leave campaign.
I know no politician ticks everyone's box but Hannan is articulate, considered, unfailingly polite and - most importantly of all - very bloody persuasive.
I'd say he's the best informed anti-EU'r I'm the world.
His past comments on the NHS are a hindrance
Hannan almost single handedly cost the Tories the 2010 election and indeed you could argue that his absurd comments did undermine the Tories at a vital pre election time.
I take the point on his domestic policies but he is undeniably robust on the EU.
I'm a Remainer but if I were trying to convince voters to dislike the EU, he'd be the bloke I'd be sticking on telly.
Whatever happened to Douglas Carswell? Farage can share a platform with Galloway but not with Carswell. I think we can be sure that if Leave win then the fighting will only have just begun.
I've been on a flight and missed all the excitement. What emotions have I missed?
Astonishment, mainly.
Lets ignore Galloway and that earlier SC poll - and cheer ourselves up with this: Latest Emerson tracking poll in SC GOP: Trump 36% Rubio 20% Cruz 19% Bush 10% Kasich 10% Carson 6%
I think we can, with great confidence, conclude that the divisions between Leave.EU/GO and Vote.Leave are not going to heal any time soon.
Half of these people campaigning to LEAVE really want to stay (the likes of Farage for example, who is firmly on the EU gravy train, while hating every minute of it )
We need a huge, popular personality who really wants to leave and isn't concerned about anything else, to come on the scene and take the LEAVE campaign by the scruff of the neck.
Unfortunately I don't think there's anybody who can do it. So, REMAIN probably wins narrowly, and Cameron and Osborne (and whoever comes after them) will see it as the green light to go "further and faster" into the Superstate.
UK in the Euro by 2030?
80% of the country does not want the Euro, 95% of the Tory Party, not going to happen however EU ref goes!!
I missed the whole Galloway thing this evening. It sounded farcical but I'm not sure it's as big a deal as some on here are making it out to be. I don't like the guy and don't have much time for his views, but if he thinks that we should leave the EU then that's fine. Not sure the Leave campaign should make him out to be some sort of star, but I don't think it makes much difference.
I presume the MEPs still have to vote on this to approve the agreement...... After the referendum of course.
Yes. This is by no means water tight at all. It is also possible that legislatures in a number of other EU countries could vote it down even if their PM/President has agreed it
I'm sure said PM/President would explain that it was 'unfortunate' but that 'democracy has to be respected'.
A bit of PR orchestrated by Cameron (which everyone knew was going to happen) and an issue which no-one in the public will care about (Galloway) and the leavers on here are in panic mode. Get a grip, leave is in a better position today than yesterday. It's looking like there is a credible and broad spectrum of leave candidates coming forward whilst Cameron has brought back absolutely nothing.
If that does turn out to be the case it will certainly drag things back for LEAVE.
The really infuriating thing about today is that if you ignore the Galloway fiasco (a big ask I know but bear with me) then it has been a fantastic day for LEAVE. Gove coming off the fence in our favour and Cameron's deal turning out to be even worse than advertised. This should have been a day to celebrate.
It can be saved over the weekend if Boris and Priti join Michael, hopefully along with at least a couple more cabinet members. We will have to see.
And still, the Leavers go on with this Tory-centric view of the world, blissfully unaware that Labour voters are essential for a win. Your funeral I suppose.
Sorry Danny you misunderstand me. I think that we are far better off having Frank Field, Jon Cryer and Dennis Skinner than Priti Patel or even Gove.
But Galloway is a special case where he is probably hated as much by most of the Left wing as he is by the right. He is no asset to a campaign except in very specifically targeted areas.
I think we can, with great confidence, conclude that the divisions between Leave.EU/GO and Vote.Leave are not going to heal any time soon.
Half of these people campaigning to LEAVE really want to stay (the likes of Farage for example, who is firmly on the EU gravy train, while hating every minute of it )
We need a huge, popular personality who really wants to leave and isn't concerned about anything else, to come on the scene and take the LEAVE campaign by the scruff of the neck.
Unfortunately I don't think there's anybody who can do it. So, REMAIN probably wins narrowly, and Cameron and Osborne (and whoever comes after them) will see it as the green light to go "further and faster" into the Superstate.
UK in the Euro by 2030?
80% of the country does not want the Euro, 95% of the Tory Party, not going to happen however EU ref goes!!
I still think Leave has a trump card. And that is Cameron cannot give a straight forward answer to the question: "Did you secure that Britain chooses who comes into its borders, Prime Minister?" And that issue can still be what decides this referendum.
What dimwits some of the Grassroots Outers are, booing and walking out in response to George Galloway. Don't they understand it's a single-issue campaign?
BTW was he the first choice as the "surprise speaker"?
Comments
Your leave bet is underwater now too. Probably permanently.
Just not in a way helpful to the Leave cause.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/the-eu-has-just-called-camerons-bluff-and-won/
Latest Emerson tracking poll in SC GOP: Trump 36% Rubio 20% Cruz 19% Bush 10% Kasich 10% Carson 6%
Shared 2 min ago
What about Ian Lavery ?
One of the people on my timeline most enjoying Galloway as a negative happens to be an affluent BBC employee.
Along with Mr Skinner of course who seems to follow Marx's rule when it comes to clubs. And this is a rare case where I probably have to confirm I am talking Groucho not Karl. :-)
PM will unveil proposals for British sovereignty act in next coming days
PM: emergency brake could start in 2017 - that's taking into account European Parliament legislative process - but well after referendum
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 3m3 minutes ago
PM: we accept free movement, we've been clear, but this helps us change important aspects of how welfare and migration interact
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 28m28 minutes ago
I do not love Brussels I love Britain - PM
That doesn't ring with confidence.
Clinton/Field -6
Rubio +5
Biden +2
Trump +19
Cruz +9
Bush -7
Kasich +7
Rubio +0
Trump +5
Cruz +7
Bush -10
Kasich +8
Carson +3
Ryan +0
Romney +1
Rubio's job tommorow is to beat Jeb Bush and no more than that.
I don't know who was in on this "surprise" but it'll go down as one of the stupidest decisions in political history.
It's clear: Farage doesn't want to win.
Prick.
I have no desire to play hamfisted sick jokes with the future of my country... unlike Grassroots Out!
Spokesmen? Well there's Gove, a lady from Northern Ireland who is somehow Labour's main Eurosceptic, and the loopers...
Meanwhile amidst all the smoke and mirrors on this so called agreement, Christine Lagarde has been won a second term unopposed at the IMF, part of the unelected troika that largely governs European affairs these days.
Let the people arise. Vote LEAVE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsW9MlYu31g
Cameron's will probably be had enough of trying to sell the EU to the British people after the referendum to be fair, but you can bet your life Osborne will he hankering to "integrate" further if he becomes PM.
And lets think what happens when Labour gets back in to power with someone like Ummuna.
I really think it's possible the establishment will have us in the Euro within most of our lifetimes after we vote to remain. That's the End Game surely?
I've been told there was a focus group conducted on behalf of a media organisation, on who should be the front man for Leave.
The focus group said, if leave wanted to win, the person should have the following characteristics
1) Competent
2) Likeable
3) Good economic reputation.
You know who the focus group suggested as their top two choices?
David Cameron and Ken Clarke!
Wankers.
The really infuriating thing about today is that if you ignore the Galloway fiasco (a big ask I know but bear with me) then it has been a fantastic day for LEAVE. Gove coming off the fence in our favour and Cameron's deal turning out to be even worse than advertised. This should have been a day to celebrate.
It can be saved over the weekend if Boris and Priti join Michael, hopefully along with at least a couple more cabinet members. We will have to see.
The problem is that it was heavily trailed to be a Tory bigwig, the thinking was either a (new) cabinet minister or Boris.
Even if that was never the case, you never ever ever ever make your SPECIAL guest George FUCKING Galloway.
Total dickwads.
Never heard of him.
But lets ignore that too.
This whole campaign could take on a life of its own and lead to some very unpredictable places. Think of the Corbyn election. Who would have thought it? LEAVE could turn into a great vote against the Establishment and all its works.
PS Mr Meeks.... To me its not that they thought he would be a good ally. That's bad enough for their nouse and attention span. They, whoever they were, actually thought he would be a good surprise guest and top of the bill headline act speaker. 'Dur... Huh?'
These people are imbicilles and we are expected to treat them as people of knowledge?
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 28m28 minutes ago
I do not love Brussels I love Britain - PM
When no one asked him.
Trump 28, Cruz 19, Rubio 15, Bush 10, Kasich 9, Carson 6
http://newsstand.clemson.edu/mediarelations/palmetto-poll-frequent-voters-in-south-carolina-favor-trump/
But Galloway is a special case where he is probably hated as much by most of the Left wing as he is by the right. He is no asset to a campaign except in very specifically targeted areas.
BTW was he the first choice as the "surprise speaker"?