The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Oh dear - stick to the day job - fiction is defo your thing.
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
I'm not sure the polling shows that but even if it does you sound like the obverse of the trendy lefties on twitter with such silly remarks.
COUNCILS are spending hundreds of millions of pounds every year taking children of Eastern European migrant workers into care, despite growing calls for them to be looked after in their parents' home countries.
Figures obtained by The Telegraph suggest that up to 8,000 children of Eastern European origins have entered care proceedings in Britain in the last decade alone. The figures have nearly doubled in the last five years as the number of Eastern Europeans living in Britain has reached one million.
If he decided to lead the LEAVE campaign - or even just figure "prominently" - he would probably take it to victory, or at least to very narrow defeat.
Either way, he would then be assured of the Tory leadership after Cameron's departure. The party would demand it.
And if it was a decisive Remain vote he would have gambled and lost. It is time that all the politicians campaign on their believes and not on their political futures, but maybe that is too much to ask
If as expected more than half the Conservatives members vote to Leave then that is a very powerful group to be on the right side of. All who join the Leave camp may almost have their careers guaranteed.
You are assuming in your scenario that after any successful Leave vote Cameron would resign sooner than later and further that irrespective of whenever any leadership election happened the membership would have a closed mind to any candidate who did not support Leave. In short you are suggesting that the Referendum campaign is a proxy for the tory leadership or some pseudo general election campaign and not about the place of our country in the world. You may be right, but it is a speculation which is merely based on a supposition.
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
I'm not sure the polling shows that but even if it does you sound like the obverse of the trendy lefties on twitter with such silly remarks.
What's silly about it?
You may like the EU, but outside the circle of ex-pats living in Spain, that's a very small proportion of the electorate.
Michael Wood's TV series on China is very good. He nails it. What is happening to China is just another cycle in a 3000 year history of civilizational rise, fall, decline and rebirth. Right now they are on the ascent, after 300 years of diminution.
Communism is basically irrelevant. A weird political blip in the larger scheme of things.
Agree. It's both impressive and thought-provoking.
If he decided to lead the LEAVE campaign - or even just figure "prominently" - he would probably take it to victory, or at least to very narrow defeat.
Either way, he would then be assured of the Tory leadership after Cameron's departure. The party would demand it.
The problem is that Boris is on record being very pro EU at various City events as Mayor. He'll look like an opportunist flip flopper, if he suddenly decides that Out is best.
Boris' only political platform is based on him becoming the next PM. I think he will not give a straight opinion on the Remain/Leave question until late night of the referendum when the early results are coming in..
Michael Wood's TV series on China is very good. He nails it. What is happening to China is just another cycle in a 3000 year history of civilizational rise, fall, decline and rebirth. Right now they are on the ascent, after 300 years of diminution.
Communism is basically irrelevant. A weird political blip in the larger scheme of things.
Indeed, China and India were the world's largest economies until the 17th century so this is just a reversion to the norm. As they are the 2 most populous nations on the planet they really should be the world's largest economies in the normal scheme of things
Boris is overwhelmingly the most popular politician in the country, with a 40% favourable rating, almost 10% higher than Cameron and the only politician of any party with a net positive approval rating. If Boris were Tory leader in 2020 it could well be a landslide, if Osborne replaces Cameron as leader it looks like it could be a hung parliament, especially if Labour replace Corbyn
Boris is overwhelmingly popular as a politician, but when it comes to choosing a party leader the membership will struggle to take him seriously.
Being able to speak Latin does not make a statesman, he gives the impression of the man who would put a whoopee cushion under Mr Putin's chair as they sit down at a conference. The incumbent PM sets the bar very high for knowing how to conduct himself in a manner appropriate to the occasion.
Boris is not that dissimilar to Berlusconi and George W Bush on that score and both won elections!
Its only possible for Boris to be popular as a politician (in the same way that Clegg was before he became part of government) because he as yet has never had to actually do anything, never had to make a real political decision or choice that would hit people in different ways. It was thus with Blair until he had some difficult decisions to make. Popularity is not something that politicians can expect and its not something that should be a major criterion in judging them. Its one of the reasons why politicians seem time limited.
If you are looking for an election winner though it is better to pick someone popular than unpopular
If Boris were to be teleported into No.10 tomorrow morning there is no guarantee as to what his popularity would be in 2020. This is my point. Doing things, anything no matter what, creates unpopularity. When you are a government faced with a massive deficit you must inevitably do things which are unpopular. The latest scare is higher rate taxpayers and pensions. If the government seeks its money standard rate payers then another great swathe of people suddenly turn on them. If it cuts benefits than both groups get angry.
Maybe but Boris would be unlikely to take over until around 2019 at the earliest by which time Osborne would have taken most of the flack
COUNCILS are spending hundreds of millions of pounds every year taking children of Eastern European migrant workers into care, despite growing calls for them to be looked after in their parents' home countries.
Figures obtained by The Telegraph suggest that up to 8,000 children of Eastern European origins have entered care proceedings in Britain in the last decade alone. The figures have nearly doubled in the last five years as the number of Eastern Europeans living in Britain has reached one million.
Off the top of my head (and my initial thought might be spectacularly wrong) this does not add up. 'hundreds' of millions 'every year' is being spent on 8000 children over 10 years. This is 800 a year over the whole country. The report also says ''The 2015 figures show that 2,500 children in the “White Other” are currently in the UK care system, either via children's homes, foster care or adoption. That compares with around 1,500 in 2006. The numbers of Gypsy Roma children also increased from 90 in 2011 to 250 in 2015.'' So of this 8000 figure over 10 years there are currently 2500 in the system which is costing 'hundreds' of millions. Can this be true? I do not say that these numbers are acceptable or that the children should not go back to their homeland. I just wonder about the alleged costs. Does everything have to cost a billion these days?
Michael Wood's TV series on China is very good. He nails it. What is happening to China is just another cycle in a 3000 year history of civilizational rise, fall, decline and rebirth. Right now they are on the ascent, after 300 years of diminution.
Communism is basically irrelevant. A weird political blip in the larger scheme of things.
Almost any intelligent China-watcher in the late 19th century expected the country to be a superpower in the 20th. It had a vast population, lots of entrepreneurs and professionals, thousands of students studying abroad, the Manchus would either reform or be swept aside, and the country would take off. The Warlords and Mao retarded that development by about 80 years.
PB comments become visibly more tense when the contributors are actually politically divided for a change
It would perhaps be nice to take time out to discuss political betting events like the US and Irish elections. Unfortunately, the markets in the latter event are highly uncompetitive. I like the 4s generally available on Trump to make it to the White House especially now the race has evolved into New Hampshire winner v Iowa evangelical with the field straggling, a matchup which tends to go one way; furthermore, he has hardly abrogated a single word of his record of egregious political moderation outside identity issues (e.g. healthcare) and this will serve him well with both genders against a Clinton campaign which seems overeager to indulge in hectoring feminism against women
COUNCILS are spending hundreds of millions of pounds every year taking children of Eastern European migrant workers into care, despite growing calls for them to be looked after in their parents' home countries.
Figures obtained by The Telegraph suggest that up to 8,000 children of Eastern European origins have entered care proceedings in Britain in the last decade alone. The figures have nearly doubled in the last five years as the number of Eastern Europeans living in Britain has reached one million.
Off the top of my head (and my initial thought might be spectacularly wrong) this does not add up. 'hundreds' of millions 'every year' is being spent on 8000 children over 10 years. This is 800 a year over the whole country. The report also says ''The 2015 figures show that 2,500 children in the “White Other” are currently in the UK care system, either via children's homes, foster care or adoption. That compares with around 1,500 in 2006. The numbers of Gypsy Roma children also increased from 90 in 2011 to 250 in 2015.'' So of this 8000 figure over 10 years there are currently 2500 in the system which is costing 'hundreds' of millions. Can this be true? I do not say that these numbers are acceptable or that the children should not go back to their homeland. I just wonder about the alleged costs. Does everything have to cost a billion these days?
Michael Wood's TV series on China is very good. He nails it. What is happening to China is just another cycle in a 3000 year history of civilizational rise, fall, decline and rebirth. Right now they are on the ascent, after 300 years of diminution.
Communism is basically irrelevant. A weird political blip in the larger scheme of things.
Almost any intelligent China-watcher in the late 19th century expected the country to be a superpower in the 20th. It had a vast population, lots of entrepreneurs and professionals, thousands of students studying abroad, the Manchus would either reform or be swept aside, and the country would take off. The Warlords and Mao retarded that development by about 80 years.
Maybe Britain and Opium had something to do with it.
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
Personally I would much prefer that we lived on a different planet. I'm sure it would be much nicer there if we could just get there. Sadly...
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
I'm not sure the polling shows that but even if it does you sound like the obverse of the trendy lefties on twitter with such silly remarks.
What's silly about it?
You may like the EU, but outside the circle of ex-pats living in Spain, that's a very small proportion of the electorate.
It's silly to talk about 'liking' in that way. lots of silly teachers want their students to 'like' them - it's not what the job's all about. Same with the EU - who cares about whether it is 'liked' - maybe it's enough to be the best of a bad job. Most of the ex-pats in spain are likke everyone else they don't 'like' politics, political institutions, or much else for that matter. their votes will be governed by self-interest. Must say I used to think you were a more serious contributor.
Michael Wood's TV series on China is very good. He nails it. What is happening to China is just another cycle in a 3000 year history of civilizational rise, fall, decline and rebirth. Right now they are on the ascent, after 300 years of diminution.
Communism is basically irrelevant. A weird political blip in the larger scheme of things.
Almost any intelligent China-watcher in the late 19th century expected the country to be a superpower in the 20th. It had a vast population, lots of entrepreneurs and professionals, thousands of students studying abroad, the Manchus would either reform or be swept aside, and the country would take off. The Warlords and Mao retarded that development by about 80 years.
Maybe Britain and Opium had something to do with it.
Britain had turned against the Opium trade by the 1890s. China ought to have boomed, after 1900.
COUNCILS are spending hundreds of millions of pounds every year taking children of Eastern European migrant workers into care, despite growing calls for them to be looked after in their parents' home countries.
Figures obtained by The Telegraph suggest that up to 8,000 children of Eastern European origins have entered care proceedings in Britain in the last decade alone. The figures have nearly doubled in the last five years as the number of Eastern Europeans living in Britain has reached one million.
Off the top of my head (and my initial thought might be spectacularly wrong) this does not add up. 'hundreds' of millions 'every year' is being spent on 8000 children over 10 years. This is 800 a year over the whole country. The report also says ''The 2015 figures show that 2,500 children in the “White Other” are currently in the UK care system, either via children's homes, foster care or adoption. That compares with around 1,500 in 2006. The numbers of Gypsy Roma children also increased from 90 in 2011 to 250 in 2015.'' So of this 8000 figure over 10 years there are currently 2500 in the system which is costing 'hundreds' of millions. Can this be true? I do not say that these numbers are acceptable or that the children should not go back to their homeland. I just wonder about the alleged costs. Does everything have to cost a billion these days?
£2500 x 40000 = £100,000,000. You take your pick.
I am looking at the figure of 'hundreds' not 'one hundred'. Your figure may well be correct, but 'hundreds' to me is a figure not far short of 500 million.
Michael Wood's TV series on China is very good. He nails it. What is happening to China is just another cycle in a 3000 year history of civilizational rise, fall, decline and rebirth. Right now they are on the ascent, after 300 years of diminution.
Communism is basically irrelevant. A weird political blip in the larger scheme of things.
Almost any intelligent China-watcher in the late 19th century expected the country to be a superpower in the 20th. It had a vast population, lots of entrepreneurs and professionals, thousands of students studying abroad, the Manchus would either reform or be swept aside, and the country would take off. The Warlords and Mao retarded that development by about 80 years.
Maybe Britain and Opium had something to do with it.
Its revealing that the metropolitan leftist's pavlovian response is to always blame Britain for the failures of other countries.
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
I'm not sure the polling shows that but even if it does you sound like the obverse of the trendy lefties on twitter with such silly remarks.
What's silly about it?
You may like the EU, but outside the circle of ex-pats living in Spain, that's a very small proportion of the electorate.
It's silly to talk about 'liking' in that way. lots of silly teachers want their students to 'like' them - it's not what the job's all about. Same with the EU - who cares about whether it is 'liked' - maybe it's enough to be the best of a bad job. Most of the ex-pats in spain are likke everyone else they don't 'like' politics, political institutions, or much else for that matter. their votes will be governed by self-interest. Must say I used to think you were a more serious contributor.
I can see I've touched a raw nerve.
Political campaigns appeal to emotion and reason. At the emotional level, Remain have lost. At the rational level, everything is still to play for.
So the voters think Labour are shite and doomed under Corbyn; Tories are pretty much on the right track; but Cameron has been slapped about the head with an enormo-haddock for taking them for fools.
PB comments become visibly more tense when the contributors are actually politically divided for a change
It would perhaps be nice to take time out to discuss political betting events like the US and Irish elections. Unfortunately, the markets in the latter event are highly uncompetitive. I like the 4s generally available on Trump to make it to the White House especially now the race has evolved into New Hampshire winner v Iowa evangelical with the field straggling, a matchup which tends to go one way; furthermore, he has hardly abrogated a single word of his record of egregious political moderation outside identity issues (e.g. healthcare) and this will serve him well with both genders against a Clinton campaign which seems overeager to indulge in hectoring feminism against women
Sanders is even better value at 8/1, especially as he is competitive with Trump in general election polls
Boris is overwhelmingly the most popular politician in the country, with a 40% favourable rating, almost 10% higher than Cameron and the only politician of any party with a net positive approval rating. If Boris were Tory leader in 2020 it could well be a landslide, if Osborne replaces Cameron as leader it looks like it could be a hung parliament, especially if Labour replace Corbyn
I cannot see any circumstance that George Osborne will take over from David Cameron. Boris has not held a high profile cabinet position and until he does it is difficult to judge his competence. If the referendum goes ahead in June then until the result and the dust has settled I do not expect that a clear heir to Cameron will become obvious.
If it is Leave or close then the likes of Fox will come into play, Osborne will inevitably be a contendor as Chancellor as may Hammond as Foreign Secretary, Boris has been Mayor of the biggest city in the country so it is not as if he has had no responsibility at all!
The referendum campaign will give the opportunity to several conservatives to star in their role, on either side, and should make the succession, whenever it is, very interesting. I do not see George Osborne or Hammond succeeding and you do not mention Teresa May. Boris has been London mayor but it is a huge step to Prime Minister as that will be the position the successor to DC will enter
Yes, if the election of Tory leader is to immediately take over as PM they will need to be someone of sufficient stature and experience in government.
Theresa May would be a safe pair of hands if DC stands down in the next year or so, she also has the added bonus of making the lefty feminists go ballistic at a second Tory woman PM.
I cannot see Fox ascending. And if he did, I don't think I could vote for him, on the basis that he's an idiot.
He lost his position (quite rightly) due to idiocy, so I have to concur.
@DanHannanMEP: In just over a week's time, Boris Johnson will make a highly Eurosceptic speech in which he backs continued EU membership.
Basically, how bad it is and it is Britain's duty to reform the EU.
We've been saying we would reform the EU since just after we joined. If we haven't been able to make any significant change to it in the last 43 years I don't see why we should have any more success in the next 43 years.
So the voters think Labour are shite and doomed under Corbyn; Tories are pretty much on the right track; but Cameron has been slapped about the head with an enormo-haddock for taking them for fools.
Is that about right?
We have an issue of the day being treated with crude self interest by the press. It goes with the job.
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
I'm not sure the polling shows that but even if it does you sound like the obverse of the trendy lefties on twitter with such silly remarks.
What's silly about it?
You may like the EU, but outside the circle of ex-pats living in Spain, that's a very small proportion of the electorate.
It's silly to talk about 'liking' in that way. lots of silly teachers want their students to 'like' them - it's not what the job's all about. Same with the EU - who cares about whether it is 'liked' - maybe it's enough to be the best of a bad job. Most of the ex-pats in spain are likke everyone else they don't 'like' politics, political institutions, or much else for that matter. their votes will be governed by self-interest. Must say I used to think you were a more serious contributor.
I can see I've touched a raw nerve.
Political campaigns appeal to emotion and reason. At the emotional level, Remain have lost. At the rational level, everything is still to play for.
My nerves are untouched and your comments remain silly and meaningless. You'll be telling us next how UKIP really 'won' in May because Nige is so 'likeable'. You'd have more fun on twitter.
So the voters think Labour are shite and doomed under Corbyn; Tories are pretty much on the right track; but Cameron has been slapped about the head with an enormo-haddock for taking them for fools.
Is that about right?
We have an issue of the day being treated with crude self interest by the press. It goes with the job.
Indeed - this poll is a very good lesson for the single issue fanatics.
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
Yes but as indyref showed Referendums are rarely won on an emotional level
There couldn't be a worst time for that to happen, just before a presidential election there will be the mother of all political fights about the composition of the Supreme Court.
I'll be voting LEAVE because I believe in Britain.
How about you?
I'll be voting REMAIN because I believe in Britain in Europe [ and the World ].
I want trade and human movement barriers coming down everywhere. Any country not doing so should have to pay an extra tariff.
What happens when they all come here, the infrastructure breaks down the schools are full to bursting and the NHS is overrun into collapse, the rule of law breaks down and anarchy reigns?
There couldn't be a worst time for that to happen, just before a presidential election there will be the mother of all political fights about the composition of the Supreme Court.
Wow.
And we were talking about Ginsburg's and Breyer's age the other night.
I'll be voting LEAVE because I believe in Britain.
How about you?
I'll be voting REMAIN because I believe in Britain in Europe [ and the World ].
I want trade and human movement barriers coming down everywhere. Any country not doing so should have to pay an extra tariff.
What happens when they all come here, the infrastructure breaks down the schools are full to bursting and the NHS is overrun into collapse, the rule of law breaks down and anarchy reigns?
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
I'm not sure the polling shows that but even if it does you sound like the obverse of the trendy lefties on twitter with such silly remarks.
What's silly about it?
You may like the EU, but outside the circle of ex-pats living in Spain, that's a very small proportion of the electorate.
It's silly to talk about 'liking' in that way. lots of silly teachers want their students to 'like' them - it's not what the job's all about. Same with the EU - who cares about whether it is 'liked' - maybe it's enough to be the best of a bad job. Most of the ex-pats in spain are likke everyone else they don't 'like' politics, political institutions, or much else for that matter. their votes will be governed by self-interest. Must say I used to think you were a more serious contributor.
I can see I've touched a raw nerve.
Political campaigns appeal to emotion and reason. At the emotional level, Remain have lost. At the rational level, everything is still to play for.
My nerves are untouched and your comments remain silly and meaningless. You'll be telling us next how UKIP really 'won' in May because Nige is so 'likeable'. You'd have more fun on twitter.
I don't know why my completely unexceptional comments are bugging you so much.
There couldn't be a worst time for that to happen, just before a presidential election there will be the mother of all political fights about the composition of the Supreme Court.
Wow.
And we were talking about Ginsburg's and Breyer's age the other night.
You know the republicans will block any appointment from Obama and they have the votes to do so. There will be screaming to the heavens from both sides.
This will definitely affect the presidential race.
There couldn't be a worst time for that to happen, just before a presidential election there will be the mother of all political fights about the composition of the Supreme Court.
Scalia was a very conservative justice, if Obama or a Democrat gets to pick his replacement that will shift the Court to the left
I am convinced he is a long term Tory sleeper agent. I mean how can anybody look at every decision and think which side of the argument will be the most unpopular and go for it. But then he is as thick as two short planks, goes to one of the best publicly funded schools in the country and get 2 E's.
There couldn't be a worst time for that to happen, just before a presidential election there will be the mother of all political fights about the composition of the Supreme Court.
Scalia was a very conservative justice, if Obama or a Democrat gets to pick his replacement that will shift the Court to the left
Can he? I don't think he has the votes in Congress. But what happens politically now?
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
I'm not sure the polling shows that but even if it does you sound like the obverse of the trendy lefties on twitter with such silly remarks.
What's silly about it?
You may like the EU, but outside the circle of ex-pats living in Spain, that's a very small proportion of the electorate.
It's silly to talk about 'liking' in that way. lots of silly teachers want their students to 'like' them - it's not what the job's all about. Same with the EU - who cares about whether it is 'liked' - maybe it's enough to be the best of a bad job. Most of the ex-pats in spain are likke everyone else they don't 'like' politics, political institutions, or much else for that matter. their votes will be governed by self-interest. Must say I used to think you were a more serious contributor.
The EU are desperate to be liked as political union is not possible without there being a pan-EU identity.
I'll be voting LEAVE because I believe in Britain.
How about you?
I'll be voting REMAIN because I believe in Britain in Europe [ and the World ].
I want trade and human movement barriers coming down everywhere. Any country not doing so should have to pay an extra tariff.
What happens when they all come here, the infrastructure breaks down the schools are full to bursting and the NHS is overrun into collapse, the rule of law breaks down and anarchy reigns?
I am convinced he is a long term Tory sleeper agent. I mean how can anybody look at every decision and think which side of the argument will be the most unpopular and go for it. But then he is as thick as two short planks, goes to one of the best publicly funded schools in the country and get 2 E's.
Is "Surbiton " Corbyns PB monika?.... He just said the same thing up thread.
Political campaigns appeal to emotion and reason. At the emotional level, Remain have lost. At the rational level, everything is still to play for.
I think you are right. Remain lost on an emotional level years ago. That's in essence why I think Leave will win, beyond anything to do with migration.
Of course you're also right that there's a rational side to this and that Remain can still win that, so it's not free money.
I am convinced he is a long term Tory sleeper agent. I mean how can anybody look at every decision and think which side of the argument will be the most unpopular and go for it. But then he is as thick as two short planks, goes to one of the best publicly funded schools in the country and get 2 E's.
Was just about to post this. Barmy individual intent on destroying the party
Antonin Scalia has died. That's going to complicate the primaries.
Obama has less than one year in which to get a nomination through the Senate. I think this complicates the Senate campaigns more than the nomination, and perhaps will help drive Dem turnout up. That being the case, they may take the Senate and so protect the new Dem majority (counting Stevens as Dem these days) in the Supreme Court for at least two more years.
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
I'm not sure the polling shows that but even if it does you sound like the obverse of the trendy lefties on twitter with such silly remarks.
Given that you are an expat I can...
Heh. Nah. Fuck off. You guys shouldn't even have a vote. And you will be duly ignored.
You sound like a Corbynite - ' tory scum will be 'duly ignored' oh wait...
Antonin Scalia has died. That's going to complicate the primaries.
Obama has less than one year in which to get a nomination through the Senate. I think this complicates the Senate campaigns more than the nomination, and perhaps will help drive Dem turnout up. That being the case, they may take the Senate and so protect the new Dem majority (counting Stevens as Dem these days) in the Supreme Court for at least two more years.
It will definitely focus interest on what Cruz and Rubio do in the Senate about the Supreme Court nomination. But what happens on the GOP Presidential race ?
You never will either - I believe many on the left don't get why people vote Tory - it's a mystery...However, if it makes you feel better we can agree about your comments being 'unexceptional'
I'll be voting LEAVE because I believe in Britain.
How about you?
I'll be voting REMAIN because I believe in Britain in Europe [ and the World ].
I want trade and human movement barriers coming down everywhere. Any country not doing so should have to pay an extra tariff.
What happens when they all come here, the infrastructure breaks down the schools are full to bursting and the NHS is overrun into collapse, the rule of law breaks down and anarchy reigns?
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
I'm not sure the polling shows that but even if it does you sound like the obverse of the trendy lefties on twitter with such silly remarks.
What's silly about it?
You may like the EU, but outside the circle of ex-pats living in Spain, that's a very small proportion of the electorate.
It's silly to talk about 'liking' in that way. lots of silly teachers want their students to 'like' them - it's not what the job's all about. Same with the EU - who cares about whether it is 'liked' - maybe it's enough to be the best of a bad job. Most of the ex-pats in spain are likke everyone else they don't 'like' politics, political institutions, or much else for that matter. their votes will be governed by self-interest. Must say I used to think you were a more serious contributor.
I can see I've touched a raw nerve.
Political campaigns appeal to emotion and reason. At the emotional level, Remain have lost. At the rational level, everything is still to play for.
The other big issue is that Leave are dealing in actuals, while Remain are dealing in hypotheticals
The migrant crisis is actually happening The Euro crisis has actually happened 3 million people may hypothetically lose their jobs if we don't vote remain
If he decided to lead the LEAVE campaign - or even just figure "prominently" - he would probably take it to victory, or at least to very narrow defeat.
Either way, he would then be assured of the Tory leadership after Cameron's departure. The party would demand it.
And if it was a decisive Remain vote he would have gambled and lost. It is time that all the politicians campaign on their believes and not on their political futures, but maybe that is too much to ask
If as expected more than half the Conservatives members vote to Leave then that is a very powerful group to be on the right side of. All who join the Leave camp may almost have their careers guaranteed.
I think the word is almost - it seems the leave campaign think they have the momentum but by next weekend many unknown factors should have materialised and at that point all careers may be on the line
Antonin Scalia has died. That's going to complicate the primaries.
Obama has less than one year in which to get a nomination through the Senate. I think this complicates the Senate campaigns more than the nomination, and perhaps will help drive Dem turnout up. That being the case, they may take the Senate and so protect the new Dem majority (counting Stevens as Dem these days) in the Supreme Court for at least two more years.
It will focus attention on what Rubio and Cruz do in the Senate. But the Supreme Court Senate battle won't start soon, perhaps Obama will wait after the early primaries.
How will this affect the presidential race? Well Rubio and Cruz will be forced to be pushed even further to the right, but it undercuts the argument that the next president will appoint supreme court replacements since it's too late for that, Obama will get the opportunity now, it ruins Hillary's point too.
The poll is yet another lesson for the twitterati and facebook fanatics that in the real world forget overpaid medics and the eurofanatics - Jo Public hates politicians but knows which side its bread is buttered when it comes to basic politics. Not a bad lesson also for a few on here.
This poll proves that I am right. As I predicted weeks ago, REMAIN will probably win, but it will come at an enormous cost: all the europhile establishment will be reviled, especially within the Tory party, as the emotional and patriotic backlash kicks in (cf Scotland after indyref, when the losing Nats benefited).
Labour can be ignored under Corbyn, the interesting stuff will happen to the Tories. I predict a peasants' revolt. The members will demand, and get, a very sceptic leader, and the whole referendum debate will begin once again, heading for a revote in 2025 or so.
Osborne will not be leader. The senior Tory who most successfully harnesses scepticism will lead.
Remain have already lost, at an emotional level. Very few people like the EU.
The argument is whether the lesser evil is to Leave or to Remain.
I'm not sure the polling shows that but even if it does you sound like the obverse of the trendy lefties on twitter with such silly remarks.
What's silly about it?
You may like the EU, but outside the circle of ex-pats living in Spain, that's a very small proportion of the electorate.
It's silly to talk about 'liking' in that way. lots of silly teachers want their students to 'like' them - it's not what the job's all about. Same with the EU - who cares about whether it is 'liked' - maybe it's enough to be the best of a bad job. Most of the ex-pats in spain are likke everyone else they don't 'like' politics, political institutions, or much else for that matter. their votes will be governed by self-interest. Must say I used to think you were a more serious contributor.
I can see I've touched a raw nerve.
Political campaigns appeal to emotion and reason. At the emotional level, Remain have lost. At the rational level, everything is still to play for.
The other big issue is that Leave are dealing in actuals, while Remain are dealing in hypotheticals
The migrant crisis is actually happening The Euro crisis has actually happened 3 million people may hypothetically lose their jobs if we don't vote remain
Remind us of the 'real' plan that leave have put so eloquently of how things are to be organised post-Brexit? You know the detailed one like the one the SNP produced for Sindy.
You never will either - I believe many on the left don't get why people vote Tory - it's a mystery...However, if it makes you feel better we can agree about your comments being 'unexceptional'
Not sure if you intended it to sound this way but it does sound like you are claiming Sean is on the Left. This is very much not the case. Until Recently Sean was one of the Tory party's staunchest defenders. It appears to be Cameron's policy on the EU that has driven Sean out, just as it did many more of us.
If he decided to lead the LEAVE campaign - or even just figure "prominently" - he would probably take it to victory, or at least to very narrow defeat.
Either way, he would then be assured of the Tory leadership after Cameron's departure. The party would demand it.
And if it was a decisive Remain vote he would have gambled and lost. It is time that all the politicians campaign on their believes and not on their political futures, but maybe that is too much to ask
If as expected more than half the Conservatives members vote to Leave then that is a very powerful group to be on the right side of. All who join the Leave camp may almost have their careers guaranteed.
I think the word is almost - it seems the leave campaign think they have the momentum but by next weekend many unknown factors should have materialised and at that point all careers may be on the line
Yes - like the way May/Hammond/Gove and all the other leading members of the government have come out so publicly against Cameron. Oh wait..
Remind us of the 'real' plan that leave have put so eloquently of how things are to be organised post-Brexit? You know the detailed one like the one the SNP produced for Sindy.
You never will either - I believe many on the left don't get why people vote Tory - it's a mystery...However, if it makes you feel better we can agree about your comments being 'unexceptional'
Not sure if you intended it to sound this way but it does sound like you are claiming Sean is on the Left. This is very much not the case. Until Recently Sean was one of the Tory party's staunchest defenders. It appears to be Cameron's policy on the EU that has driven Sean out, just as it did many more of us.
I'm hoping you'll claim montie too before much longer... he's such a bore.
Antonin Scalia has died. That's going to complicate the primaries.
Obama has less than one year in which to get a nomination through the Senate. I think this complicates the Senate campaigns more than the nomination, and perhaps will help drive Dem turnout up. That being the case, they may take the Senate and so protect the new Dem majority (counting Stevens as Dem these days) in the Supreme Court for at least two more years.
It will focus attention on what Rubio and Cruz do in the Senate. But the Supreme Court Senate battle won't start soon, perhaps Obama will wait after the early primaries.
How will this affect the presidential race? Well Rubio and Cruz will be forced to be pushed even further to the right, but it undercuts the argument that the next president will appoint supreme court replacements since it's too late for that, Obama will get the opportunity now, it ruins Hillary's point too.
We don't know who'll win the Senate. I don't think Obama could appoint a Justice who was unacceptable to the Republican majority at present.
I'm still not sure how Scalia's death affects the Presidential race. Unless Trump says he'll fill the vacancy by appointing his horse.....
It diminishes the importance of the presidential race a bit. The focus will turn on Senate electoral battles, Rubio retiring from the Senate looks less smart.
Comments
Figures obtained by The Telegraph suggest that up to 8,000 children of Eastern European origins have entered care proceedings in Britain in the last decade alone. The figures have nearly doubled in the last five years as the number of Eastern Europeans living in Britain has reached one million.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12156044/Britain-takes-thousands-of-migrant-children-into-care.html
In short you are suggesting that the Referendum campaign is a proxy for the tory leadership or some pseudo general election campaign and not about the place of our country in the world.
You may be right, but it is a speculation which is merely based on a supposition.
You may like the EU, but outside the circle of ex-pats living in Spain, that's a very small proportion of the electorate.
Lab 27
Broken, sleazy Labour on the slide
How about you?
I want trade and human movement barriers coming down everywhere. Any country not doing so should have to pay an extra tariff.
'hundreds' of millions 'every year' is being spent on 8000 children over 10 years.
This is 800 a year over the whole country.
The report also says ''The 2015 figures show that 2,500 children in the “White Other” are currently in the UK care system, either via children's homes, foster care or adoption. That compares with around 1,500 in 2006. The numbers of Gypsy Roma children also increased from 90 in 2011 to 250 in 2015.''
So of this 8000 figure over 10 years there are currently 2500 in the system which is costing 'hundreds' of millions.
Can this be true?
I do not say that these numbers are acceptable or that the children should not go back to their homeland.
I just wonder about the alleged costs. Does everything have to cost a billion these days?
SNP: 45%
CON: 21%
LAB: 14%
LD: 10%
UKIP: 6%
GRN: 4% https://t.co/BbV3wQmCrd
It would perhaps be nice to take time out to discuss political betting events like the US and Irish elections. Unfortunately, the markets in the latter event are highly uncompetitive. I like the 4s generally available on Trump to make it to the White House especially now the race has evolved into New Hampshire winner v Iowa evangelical with the field straggling, a matchup which tends to go one way; furthermore, he has hardly abrogated a single word of his record of egregious political moderation outside identity issues (e.g. healthcare) and this will serve him well with both genders against a Clinton campaign which seems overeager to indulge in hectoring feminism against women
But Britain will still be in Europe. You can't change geography.
/disengage
Political campaigns appeal to emotion and reason. At the emotional level, Remain have lost. At the rational level, everything is still to play for.
Is that about right?
Interesting. Would you be interested in some lessons in basic geography?
Chris Cillizza @TheFix 1m1 minute ago
Antonin Scalia reportedly found dead at a West Texas ranch. http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/us-world/article/Senior-Associate-Justice-Antonin-Scalia-found-6828930.php …
There couldn't be a worst time for that to happen, just before a presidential election there will be the mother of all political fights about the composition of the Supreme Court.
That's a genuine question by the way.....
And we were talking about Ginsburg's and Breyer's age the other night.
There will be screaming to the heavens from both sides.
This will definitely affect the presidential race.
@GdnPolitics: Jeremy Corbyn set to condemn Tory limits on EU migration https://t.co/myAZUYdpPR
I don't think he has the votes in Congress.
But what happens politically now?
Which candidate does this favour ?
https://twitter.com/evanasmith/status/698628077581004800
But who does this favour?
Of course you're also right that there's a rational side to this and that Remain can still win that, so it's not free money.
"Scalia, 79, was a guest at the Cibolo Creek Ranch, a resort in the Big Bend region south of Marfa.
According to a report, Scalia arrived at the ranch on Friday and attended a private party with about 40 people."
Scalia was a Supreme Court judge.
Right?
EU = The First Order
But what happens on the GOP Presidential race ?
I want Britain in Europe because I want Britain to think it is in Europe like, e.g.Turkey.
EU = The Borg
You never will either - I believe many on the left don't get why people vote Tory - it's a mystery...However, if it makes you feel better we can agree about your comments being 'unexceptional'
The migrant crisis is actually happening
The Euro crisis has actually happened
3 million people may hypothetically lose their jobs if we don't vote remain
Come on spurs, England and England. Let's have a good one tomorrow pretty please.
But the Supreme Court Senate battle won't start soon, perhaps Obama will wait after the early primaries.
How will this affect the presidential race?
Well Rubio and Cruz will be forced to be pushed even further to the right, but it undercuts the argument that the next president will appoint supreme court replacements since it's too late for that, Obama will get the opportunity now, it ruins Hillary's point too.
Do we need one?
There are a couple of hundred non-EU nations that seem to get by.
http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf
The focus will turn on Senate electoral battles, Rubio retiring from the Senate looks less smart.