Jeb: I support any US involvement, with europe and the arabs, we have to lead, europe can't lead, we have to deal with a sunni army and in Libya, Obama sees it incrementally, we need to lead aggressively.
Carson: I was the first to talk about Libya, ISIS is going after Libya, Chad, Sudan , Niger, Iraq, how we can stop them getting there, talking with generals, I will support it in conjunction if the generals support it, no one on this stage is a general.
Cruz: Under the law torture is not torture its' enhanced interrogation, i will not bring it back, I join with McCain , bad things happen, but the president can authorize it with an imminent terrorist attack.
Trump: in the Middle East people are chopping heads, we live in medieval times, I will bring it back and much worse.
Jeb: I will not, what we stand is appropriate, killing people is more acceptable, human intechological interrogation.
Rubio: Law enforcement is not anti-terrorism, we should not say how we will torture people, we should not close guantanamo bay.
Cruz: There are 3 ways, executive power is the preffered Obama method, everything done can be deleted, I will delete everything that Obama did on day 1, I can end common core on day 1, foreign policy can change, Reagan released hostages, flat tax abolish the IRS.
Whao. Did Cruz say he would not bring back "widespread" use of torture???
That was a scary answer. Did he really say that it's only torture if you lose organs and 'systems'?
Yep. Competition to see who is the most in favour of torture (although Christie or Kasich didn't get shots at this one). Sickening. I'm going to bed, before someone bursts into my house and waterboards me.
Trump: people get together and make deals, you have to be able top get a consensus, Iran deal is bad, with congress you have to get people in to make the deal you want.
Kasich: there is no leadership, the problem is there is no leader, Trump is saying the truth, we have to remind people we are americans, the point is you have to work with people, Obama is not a king, Ohio, solve problems by coming together, america first.
Jeb: I agree with everything said here, in the Bush administration I will trust Kasich and Christie to build roads, shrink power.
Kasich: you need a 100 day scedule, reduce taxes, reduce taxes, fix social security, build a border all in 100 days.
Jeb: repeal obamacare, reduce regulations, state medicare insurance, i trust governors.
Question about drugs on Cruz. What can you say to the police?
Cruz: This is a problem that i understand, my sister had alcohol addiction, she married a jail guy, she ended up in jail, she ended up in a crack house, she was angry, i took a 20$ thousand loan with a credit card with my first job, my sister died of a drug overdose, secure the border, mexican carterls, i will secure the border.
Christie: I was an attorney, in New Jersey we help N.H. , I proposed a law, people don't go to jail anymore but they go into a drug rehabilitation facility, it's a disease, i'm pro-life, 16 year old addicted, 42 year old lawyer, i;m pro-life, drug overdose deaths went down for the first time in 23 years last year.
Question from conservative Radio hosts. How can you win?
Trump: I do very well against Hillary in the polls, last night i was in S.C 12 thousand people came, built a real wall, we will galvanize the people, assuming that she gets away from the emails, the democrats are protecting her, i will win the election by a lot, no more Obama.
Rubio: Iowa, rally numbers, 2016 is a referendum on our identity, we are going to defeat her because she is unqualified to be president, Benghazi.
Carson: It will be pretty easy, in one case you have someone who is deceitful, if we can just hold on, Benghazi, a referendum on honesty.
Question to Trump about minorities and the police.
Trump: there is a divide, the police are mistreated, they do a mistake and the press have it on the front page all the time, the police are afraid of their jobs, the minorities respect the police, we need to respect the police. The families should sue, the police is tremendous people, you have to weed problems.
Kasich: its a win win here, get the community leaders and the police together, Ohio, bring the community and the police together win win.
Question about Obama mosque.
Rubio: I would visit a mosque, there is no discrimination against muslims in america, we face a strong threat, we need a strong link we the islamic community, christians are discriminated in america.
Christie: I will quarantine all people coming back from the Rio olympics, that nurse had symptoms, we released her after 48 hrs, i was an attorney, i went to mosques to build bridges, we cant mix muslims with jihadists, they need our understanding.
Carson: It's not simple, virus in saliva and urine, we should quarantine people but not simply those who come from brazil, we need a rapid response with the CDC, we need to support them.
I've thought about it some more, there's only three things that will change my mind and make me back Remain
i) Dave gets protection for the City of London and the Financial Services Industry
ii) The French announce they want us to leave
iii) The Tory Right use the referendum as a way of trying to topple Dave and undo the Cameroon project
The Cameroon project is self destructing on Europe. It's tragic. If Gove backs out it is all over.
Calm down. It's not self destructing. Cameron has been Tory leader for ten years, he is just reaching the inevitable end of all political careers: failure. Either it will be the failure of a referendum victory that turns sour, or the harsher failure of an actual referendum loss.
His error of judgment on the deal was a symptom of his fading powers. He bought into the idea he was such a brilliant salesman he could sell a cup of cold sick.
His judgement was fine. His goal was to get a second term, and he did.
It's just possible that in doing so he's lost the referendum, but it's highly unlikely: People are talking about it now, but whether the "renegotiation" was pants or not won't be the main focus of the referendum. And even if he did, he's not massively, passionately committed to the EU or anything, so that would be a small price to pay for winning the election.
Rubio: There are already women in combat, i have no problem so long as the minimum requirements, if there is a draft both women and men should be drafted, out army is the smallest in hundreds of years, we will rebuild the us military.
Jeb: I do believe that women have a right to be drafted, they should boost morale, the military is what we need to project our force, why should people be worried that their daughters be drafted, i'm not suggesting that we should have the draft.
Christie: I have 2 daughters, life comes from within, if women want to fight they should be allowed to do so, anything that women can dream they can do.
Carson: 14% decrease for people applying for the military because of the veterans, we treat veterans terribly, we need to integrate them in society.
Kasich: the pentagon should work with the veterans agency, we need to take care of them and we will.
Rubio: my brother is a veteran from 1961 till something, he lost his teeth in a parachute drop, when im president veterans can take their health care in any hospital.
Cruz: i sympathized with the family, we don't pay ransoms, no deals with Iran, it puts a bounty on americans, the president should go after the terrorists.
Trump: i know Diane Fowley, i fully understand, you cannot negotiate that way with terrorists, I raised 6$ million for the veterans in the last debate, there is tremendous fraud in the veterans affairs.
Question on Rubio about social policy for younger people.
Rubio: I don't believe that being against gay marriage makes you a bigot, abortion is a human rights issue not a political issue, the right of women vs embryos i choose embryos, the democrats are extremists, why Hillary supports abortion even a day before birth.
Jeb: I'm against abortion, I abolished it in florida, florida, florida, but there should be exceptions for rape and life threatening conditions and that's a sweatspot for a GOP nominee.
Rubio: I do support an expection, but it's not a political issue, i would rather lose the election rather that change my mind.
Christie: We cut funding, Hillary supports murdering babies, Hillary and the democrats are extremists, in case of rape or incest there is self defence and abortion is self defence.
Only seen the last 20-30 minutes or so and Christie has stood out for me. Rubio's answer on abortion is very scary - that would put off many, many moderates.
Very boring, no attacks except on Obama and Hillary, just self congratulations.
So far this debate has been very good for Kasich and Jeb, the opposite for Rubio and Trump.
Very good for Trump, not because he did well in the debate, but that Bush, Kasich and Christie did well, and Rubio will have not hurt himself, so the anti-Trump/Cruz vote will remain split 4 ways, with the chance that 2 or more of the 4 will fail to hit the 10% threshold so that their delegates will go to the winner, probably Trump. Ie it will up the Trump delegate representation at the expense of the Establishment.
Very boring, no attacks except on Obama and Hillary, just self congratulations.
So far this debate has been very good for Kasich and Jeb, the opposite for Rubio and Trump.
Net winner: Probably Cruz. Technically value @ 7/1, although that price could well drift further after NH.
Marco Rubio is very vulnerable to the "not ready yet" narrative - and tonights performance will play into that and could really undermine him. After rebacking a couple of days ago, I've traded out of Rubio, taking a small loss.
Over the next 72 hrs, watch the late NH polling like a hawk - especially Kasich.
Very boring, no attacks except on Obama and Hillary, just self congratulations.
So far this debate has been very good for Kasich and Jeb, the opposite for Rubio and Trump.
Net winner: Probably Cruz. Technically value @ 7/1, although that price could well drift further after NH.
Marco Rubio is very vulnerable to the "not ready yet" narrative - and tonights performance will play into that and could really undermine him. After rebacking a couple of days ago, I've traded out of Rubio, taking a small loss.
Over the next 72 hrs, watch the late NH polling like a hawk - especially Kasich.
Kasich and Jeb are clear winners. Rubio and Trump clear losers. Christie is still alive.
Christie hit Rubio again and again and again and exposed him as a lightweight, Rubio was simply repeating the same boring speech again and again and Christie told him so, Rubio hit back with Christie's appalling record of governance. Kasich and Jeb shined in comparison and used the rules to their advantage to dominate speaking time. Trump was going up and down, he was very great with healthcare but Bush destroyed him with the old lady. Cruz was largely forgotten after the initial Iowa issue with Carson. Carson is still trying to show that he is a foreign policy expert, he had though a pretty awkward entrance.
After a rough first half for the candidates, the second half was simply coasting quietly till the end and that smoothed some of major damage for Rubio and Trump by the end.
Looking at google trends Rubio is dominating interest in N.H. during the course of the debate, so this means that either Rubio is going to win N.H. or he will end up fourth or fifth, but he won't get second after this debate.
It seems clear that the Republicans don't fear Sanders at all - I don't think he got a significant mention during the final segment and I don't see his name as having been mentioned.
Is that because they don't see any way he can beat Hilary or are they confident that they can wipe the floor with him if he does?
It seems clear that the Republicans don't fear Sanders at all - I don't think he got a significant mention during the final segment and I don't see his name as having been mentioned.
Is that because they don't see any way he can beat Hilary or are they confident that they can wipe the floor with him if he does?
It doesn't press the Republican electorate's buttons to mention Sanders whereas it does if you mention Hillary?
It seems clear that the Republicans don't fear Sanders at all - I don't think he got a significant mention during the final segment and I don't see his name as having been mentioned.
Is that because they don't see any way he can beat Hilary or are they confident that they can wipe the floor with him if he does?
It doesn't press the Republican electorate's buttons to mention Sanders whereas it does if you mention Hillary?
I would have thought his socialism might be an easy target for them - but I must admit that I can only see Sanders losing a General Election - no matter who he is up against
I don't know if Trump or Rubio are going to win N.H., but I do know that Kasich and Jeb now have a chance.
Until the final poll and the weather on polling day you can never be sure.
Rubio and Trump in my opinion did the worst in the debate overall, however the media is dumping Rubio right now, that is significant because Rubio's strength is the support from the media establishment and now they are drooling over Kasich, so Rubio might be dominating the internet right now but he's lost the TV and the press.
By comparison you might say that Rubio's troubles are Trump's gains, but I'm not sure that is enough for him to win N.H at the moment.
Matt Walsh @MattWalshBlog 3m3 minutes ago Good Lord, Fox just played clips of Rubio repeating the same line 5 times. Embarrassing.
He's simply a one trick pony.
daveweigel Retweeted Matt Cover @MattCover 2h2 hours ago Sen. Rubio, your thoughts on taxes?
Obama is systematically...
War?
Obama is systematically...
Pizza?
Systematically...
With those who watch the debate, yes. There will probably be a lot of voters who have had their fill of debates. So the question is whether that rises from being something Fox put on loop to something that people talk about at the water cooler on Monday back at work. if they do, it's bad for Rubio. Not convinced it rises to that level though.
I had thought that 'Please clap" was the nail in Bush' coffin, but he did well enough tonight to more than offset that embarrassment.
Kasich is my man, whom I had given up on having a chance to win the nomination, so I am very glad he did well tonight. He still have a hard time getting to the nomination, but at least he has helped his chances of a win or emphatic 2nd in NH catapulting him into Establishment favorite position (which is the only way he gets the nomination).
James Fallows @JamesFallows 52m52 minutes ago Most self-destructive debate performance since Quayle ’88 and J.B. Stockdale ’92: Rubio.
ABC News PoliticsVerified account @ABCPolitics 37m37 minutes ago .@matthewjdowd: "This debate was @marcorubio's worst, at a time when he needed his best." #GOPDebate
Chuck Todd @chucktodd 24m24 minutes ago What makes Rubio's performance even more perplexing, he seemed unprepared for the attacks even though it was telegraphed all week
The Rubio campaign lived by the establishment media and died by the establishment media, his biggest supporters are dumping him over a single debate.
Rubio's problem isn't those that watched the debates. As @Speedy says it is the media reaction and the breakfast/following news shows.
The media pendulum perhaps swung too far in Rubio's direction after he Iowa where he did only come third. You suggested earlier that Rubio looked unwell, which might explain things.
So a good night for the Establishment and also for Trump insofar as it was bad for Rubio and indifferent for Cruz.
Rubio's problem isn't those that watched the debates. As @Speedy says it is the media reaction and the breakfast/following news shows.
The problem with these primaries is that the political pundits on the media have got it wrong pretty much every time. I can't remember how many times we've been told that Trump's performance has cooked his goose.
The governors had a good night, Rubio not so much. I'd rather wait until Tuesday to assess how Rubio's bad night translates into how he'll do in this marathon.
Comments
Question to Jeb.
What would you do?
Jeb: I support any US involvement, with europe and the arabs, we have to lead, europe can't lead, we have to deal with a sunni army and in Libya, Obama sees it incrementally, we need to lead aggressively.
Carson: I was the first to talk about Libya, ISIS is going after Libya, Chad, Sudan , Niger, Iraq, how we can stop them getting there, talking with generals, I will support it in conjunction if the generals support it, no one on this stage is a general.
Cruz: Under the law torture is not torture its' enhanced interrogation, i will not bring it back, I join with McCain , bad things happen, but the president can authorize it with an imminent terrorist attack.
Trump: in the Middle East people are chopping heads, we live in medieval times, I will bring it back and much worse.
Jeb: I will not, what we stand is appropriate, killing people is more acceptable, human intechological interrogation.
Rubio: Law enforcement is not anti-terrorism, we should not say how we will torture people, we should not close guantanamo bay.
Cruz: There are 3 ways, executive power is the preffered Obama method, everything done can be deleted, I will delete everything that Obama did on day 1, I can end common core on day 1, foreign policy can change, Reagan released hostages, flat tax abolish the IRS.
Trump: people get together and make deals, you have to be able top get a consensus, Iran deal is bad, with congress you have to get people in to make the deal you want.
Kasich: there is no leadership, the problem is there is no leader, Trump is saying the truth, we have to remind people we are americans, the point is you have to work with people, Obama is not a king, Ohio, solve problems by coming together, america first.
Jeb: I agree with everything said here, in the Bush administration I will trust Kasich and Christie to build roads, shrink power.
Kasich: you need a 100 day scedule, reduce taxes, reduce taxes, fix social security, build a border all in 100 days.
Jeb: repeal obamacare, reduce regulations, state medicare insurance, i trust governors.
Kasich; thanks for being patient with us.
Carson has had barely any time I think.
What can you say to the police?
Cruz: This is a problem that i understand, my sister had alcohol addiction, she married a jail guy, she ended up in jail, she ended up in a crack house, she was angry, i took a 20$ thousand loan with a credit card with my first job, my sister died of a drug overdose, secure the border, mexican carterls, i will secure the border.
Christie: I was an attorney, in New Jersey we help N.H. , I proposed a law, people don't go to jail anymore but they go into a drug rehabilitation facility, it's a disease, i'm pro-life, 16 year old addicted, 42 year old lawyer, i;m pro-life, drug overdose deaths went down for the first time in 23 years last year.
How can you win?
Trump: I do very well against Hillary in the polls, last night i was in S.C 12 thousand people came, built a real wall, we will galvanize the people, assuming that she gets away from the emails, the democrats are protecting her, i will win the election by a lot, no more Obama.
Rubio: Iowa, rally numbers, 2016 is a referendum on our identity, we are going to defeat her because she is unqualified to be president, Benghazi.
Carson: It will be pretty easy, in one case you have someone who is deceitful, if we can just hold on, Benghazi, a referendum on honesty.
Kasich and Jeb are flattering each other and are using the rules to dominate the debate time by passing to each other.
No one else is coming through, though Cruz had a bit of a problem with his inconsistency over torture.
Trump is still dead after the old lady scuffle with Bush.
Trump: there is a divide, the police are mistreated, they do a mistake and the press have it on the front page all the time, the police are afraid of their jobs, the minorities respect the police, we need to respect the police. The families should sue, the police is tremendous people, you have to weed problems.
Kasich: its a win win here, get the community leaders and the police together, Ohio, bring the community and the police together win win.
Question about Obama mosque.
Rubio: I would visit a mosque, there is no discrimination against muslims in america, we face a strong threat, we need a strong link we the islamic community, christians are discriminated in america.
Christie: I will quarantine all people coming back from the Rio olympics, that nurse had symptoms, we released her after 48 hrs, i was an attorney, i went to mosques to build bridges, we cant mix muslims with jihadists, they need our understanding.
Carson: It's not simple, virus in saliva and urine, we should quarantine people but not simply those who come from brazil, we need a rapid response with the CDC, we need to support them.
It's just possible that in doing so he's lost the referendum, but it's highly unlikely: People are talking about it now, but whether the "renegotiation" was pants or not won't be the main focus of the referendum. And even if he did, he's not massively, passionately committed to the EU or anything, so that would be a small price to pay for winning the election.
Rubio: There are already women in combat, i have no problem so long as the minimum requirements, if there is a draft both women and men should be drafted, out army is the smallest in hundreds of years, we will rebuild the us military.
Jeb: I do believe that women have a right to be drafted, they should boost morale, the military is what we need to project our force, why should people be worried that their daughters be drafted, i'm not suggesting that we should have the draft.
Christie: I have 2 daughters, life comes from within, if women want to fight they should be allowed to do so, anything that women can dream they can do.
Carson: 14% decrease for people applying for the military because of the veterans, we treat veterans terribly, we need to integrate them in society.
Or something.
Rubio: my brother is a veteran from 1961 till something, he lost his teeth in a parachute drop, when im president veterans can take their health care in any hospital.
Cruz: i sympathized with the family, we don't pay ransoms, no deals with Iran, it puts a bounty on americans, the president should go after the terrorists.
Trump: i know Diane Fowley, i fully understand, you cannot negotiate that way with terrorists, I raised 6$ million for the veterans in the last debate, there is tremendous fraud in the veterans affairs.
Rubio: I don't believe that being against gay marriage makes you a bigot, abortion is a human rights issue not a political issue, the right of women vs embryos i choose embryos, the democrats are extremists, why Hillary supports abortion even a day before birth.
Jeb: I'm against abortion, I abolished it in florida, florida, florida, but there should be exceptions for rape and life threatening conditions and that's a sweatspot for a GOP nominee.
Rubio: I do support an expection, but it's not a political issue, i would rather lose the election rather that change my mind.
Christie: We cut funding, Hillary supports murdering babies, Hillary and the democrats are extremists, in case of rape or incest there is self defence and abortion is self defence.
Jeb: Colorado
Trump Carolina
Rubio Carolina
Carson Denver or Carolina
Christie Denver.
Very boring, no attacks except on Obama and Hillary, just self congratulations.
So far this debate has been very good for Kasich and Jeb, the opposite for Rubio and Trump.
Kasich: I did 100 town hall meetings, you changed me, you hugged me, i have a positive conservative message, give me a chance, god bless you.
Christie: I spend 13 years to serve people, putting the people first, 9/11, hurricane sandy, N.H i spent 70 days with you.
Jeb: I thank people of N.H, Reagan birthday, Reagan, limited government peace through strength.
Carson: for many months the media have tried to bury me, i'm still here and i'm not going anywhere, there is still a place for decency and honesty.
Rubio: My kids joined me, in N.H in 72 hrs we will decide what country we will be, vote for me and we will defeat Hillary.
Cruz: Every one says that they will stand up to Washington, I was against enthanol and i beat everyone, I hate ethanol, constitution.
Trump: that's because he got Carson's vote, we don't win anymore, in N.H. they have a big drug problem, we don't win anymore, we will win win win.
Marco Rubio is very vulnerable to the "not ready yet" narrative - and tonights performance will play into that and could really undermine him. After rebacking a couple of days ago, I've traded out of Rubio, taking a small loss.
Over the next 72 hrs, watch the late NH polling like a hawk - especially Kasich.
Both have very odd-shaped ears. Unpresidential ears.
£1,119.31
Jeb Bush
-£1,309.57
Kasich and Jeb are clear winners.
Rubio and Trump clear losers.
Christie is still alive.
Christie hit Rubio again and again and again and exposed him as a lightweight, Rubio was simply repeating the same boring speech again and again and Christie told him so, Rubio hit back with Christie's appalling record of governance.
Kasich and Jeb shined in comparison and used the rules to their advantage to dominate speaking time.
Trump was going up and down, he was very great with healthcare but Bush destroyed him with the old lady.
Cruz was largely forgotten after the initial Iowa issue with Carson.
Carson is still trying to show that he is a foreign policy expert, he had though a pretty awkward entrance.
After a rough first half for the candidates, the second half was simply coasting quietly till the end and that smoothed some of major damage for Rubio and Trump by the end.
My marks.
Kasich 7/10
Bush 7/10
Cruz 6/10
Christie 5/10
Carson 5/10
Trump 4/10
Rubio 4/10
Looking at google trends Rubio is dominating interest in N.H. during the course of the debate, so this means that either Rubio is going to win N.H. or he will end up fourth or fifth, but he won't get second after this debate.
Is that because they don't see any way he can beat Hilary or are they confident that they can wipe the floor with him if he does?
Until the final poll and the weather on polling day you can never be sure.
Rubio and Trump in my opinion did the worst in the debate overall, however the media is dumping Rubio right now, that is significant because Rubio's strength is the support from the media establishment and now they are drooling over Kasich, so Rubio might be dominating the internet right now but he's lost the TV and the press.
By comparison you might say that Rubio's troubles are Trump's gains, but I'm not sure that is enough for him to win N.H at the moment.
Goodnight.
Matt Walsh @MattWalshBlog 3m3 minutes ago
Good Lord, Fox just played clips of Rubio repeating the same line 5 times. Embarrassing.
He's simply a one trick pony.
daveweigel Retweeted
Matt Cover @MattCover 2h2 hours ago
Sen. Rubio, your thoughts on taxes?
Obama is systematically...
War?
Obama is systematically...
Pizza?
Systematically...
I had thought that 'Please clap" was the nail in Bush' coffin, but he did well enough tonight to more than offset that embarrassment.
Kasich is my man, whom I had given up on having a chance to win the nomination, so I am very glad he did well tonight. He still have a hard time getting to the nomination, but at least he has helped his chances of a win or emphatic 2nd in NH catapulting him into Establishment favorite position (which is the only way he gets the nomination).
James Fallows @JamesFallows 52m52 minutes ago
Most self-destructive debate performance since Quayle ’88 and J.B. Stockdale ’92: Rubio.
ABC News PoliticsVerified account @ABCPolitics 37m37 minutes ago
.@matthewjdowd: "This debate was @marcorubio's worst, at a time when he needed his best."
#GOPDebate
Chuck Todd @chucktodd 24m24 minutes ago
What makes Rubio's performance even more perplexing, he seemed unprepared for the attacks even though it was telegraphed all week
The Rubio campaign lived by the establishment media and died by the establishment media, his biggest supporters are dumping him over a single debate.
Just a hunch.
(yes yes, I know, gambling hunches can turn out to be very expensive!)
A more sensible man would wait for polling.
Anyways. Goodnight!
So a good night for the Establishment and also for Trump insofar as it was bad for Rubio and indifferent for Cruz.
The governors had a good night, Rubio not so much. I'd rather wait until Tuesday to assess how Rubio's bad night translates into how he'll do in this marathon.