@DPJHodges: Hilary Benn doesn't just look like the leader of the opposition at the moment. He looks like the prime minister.
Can't help but agree with that. That was Churchillian.
Simply astonishing.
I have just watched it. A fantastic speech. The ending was very good indeed. Passionate and right. That's a leader's speech. That is Labour - real Labour - at its very best. Good to see.
I didn't see it, but you can guarantee it was better than the rubbish Corbyn was spouting..
I'd love to see Corbyn reason with an IS terrorist with an AK47 pointed at him.
I
I hope Benn will be sacked long before then.
Tonight the government has put ISIS on the driving seat, and it's fate is linked to what ISIS does.
Yes nice and easy for you.
As we are already bombing in Syria as part of coalition forces would said resignation be demanded as a result of Iraq bombing or Syria bombing and how would you know? Of course ISIS will probably say it's as a result of Syria and of course you would no doubt except that without question and would actually place ISIS in the driving seat yourself.
Of course we could do absolutely nothing and just wait for them to turn up here. It's inevitable really they will whatever decision was achieved tonight they are coming as we have already headed of several potential attacks to date. If we did nothing to day we would then be in an unenviable position of asking for help that wouldn't be forthcoming as we would have failed to stand by our neighbours previously.
For the record I am not comfortable with it but one has to face reality. Negotiation with these people is impossible so military action is the only other option as the United Nations have already agreed.
I'm all for defeating ISIS by military means, but Britain cannot do it as it is military weaker than ISIS, and the West can't do it to avoid making it appear as a Crusade. Someone has to commit 250 thousand troops that are necessary to defeat them, a force comprising of third world countries under the UN is the only practical solution, not bombing Syria with a tiny force of 16 planes.
That's the reason why I oppose the PM's war plans, because those plans are absurd and will never succeed, Cameron is simply talking loudly while carrying a very small stick. And now his fate is on the hands of the enemy, since he can't do anything to them to defeat them. It's only a matter of time for the fact to be realized by the public that whatever the PM loudly declares on foreign affairs, the reality is that he's impotent.
@tnewtondunn: One other smaller rebellion of note in #SyriaVote: UKIP's only MP @DouglasCarswell voted against Nigel Farage's wishes to back air strikes
They had said they needed two days of debate. War. Peace. To bomb Isil. Not to bomb Isil. The issues were too complex. The stakes too high. The arguments too nuanced.
They were wrong. It boiled down to one speech and one moment. Parliamentary history distilled in a way few of us have seen in our lifetime.
Hilary Benn’s speech. It is about to become the House of Commons “where were you when Kennedy was shot” moment. Where were you sitting. Who were you with. What were you thinking.
Christmas is an ideal time, the media will get all roused up as usual but public attention will be very limited over the 2 weeks of Christmas and New Year holidays.
"Parliament has just voted to launch airstrikes in Syria. I am reminded of the messages I have received in recent days from my constituents who have expressed deep concern for family in Syria. I also think of our armed forces whose lives will be put in danger.
The fact of the matter is, David Cameron’s case was not convincing, lacking either credible ground troops or a plan for a diplomatic settlement. Since he first made his case for airstrikes in Syria, last Thursday, opposition has mounted; in the country, in parliament and in the Labour Party.
It is impossible to avoid the conclusion that the Prime Minister realised opposition to his ill thought-out rush to war was growing – and he needed to hold the vote before it slipped from his hands. I have argued, and will continue to do so, that we should re-double our efforts to secure a diplomatic and political end to the conflict in Syria.
British service men and women will now be in harm’s way and the loss of innocent lives is sadly almost inevitable."
- Corbyn via facebook
To ss er
It is easy to negotiate with people who hold similar values and beliefs to you.
Negotiating with a medieval death cult that has no respect for lives and dreams of heavenly virgins is not possible.
I suspect the Russians will be raining down cluster bombs, phosphorous and possibly Napalm (They'll stop short of nukes, unless IS continue to really piss them off) and all those things we're not allowed to do.
Dieing for your cause is one thing but having half your face ripped off and being blinded with searing pain might cause a few Jihadis to reconsider.
@johnmcdonnellMP 2 mins2 minutes ago Despite big majorities in both Shadow Cabinet & PLP against bombing, we lost the vote & bombers will be in air tonight & people will die.
Kate Godfrey @KateVotesLabour 1m1 minute ago Andy Burnham telling people he did want to vote for the government, but was upset by Cameron's comment Just going to leave that right there
Kate Godfrey @KateVotesLabour 1m1 minute ago Andy Burnham telling people he did want to vote for the government, but was upset by Cameron's comment
Just going to leave that right there
At least he showed himself as a man of conviction not easily swayed by emotion on such a serious vote.
Lol, it would be interesting to hear his reasons for wanting to vote for airstrikes, if the counter argument of a few well targeted words was so overwhelming...
@johnmcdonnellMP 2 mins2 minutes ago Despite big majorities in both Shadow Cabinet & PLP against bombing, we lost the vote & bombers will be in air tonight & people will die.
@Maomentum_: Of course one man's terrorist sympathiser is another man's shadow chancellor.
@johnmcdonnellMP 2 mins2 minutes ago Despite big majorities in both Shadow Cabinet & PLP against bombing, we lost the vote & bombers will be in air tonight & terrorists will die. This saddens me greatly.
@johnmcdonnellMP 2 mins2 minutes ago Despite big majorities in both Shadow Cabinet & PLP against bombing, we lost the vote & bombers will be in air tonight & people will die.
"Big majorities" in the Shadow Cabinet? Can McDonnell count? And he's hoping to be chancellor. Heaven help us.
@iankatz1000: Tho @jeremycorbyn took majority of shad cabinet w him, both his defence + foreign shadow mins + his dep and most snr woman voted for strikes
@johnmcdonnellMP 2 mins2 minutes ago Despite big majorities in both Shadow Cabinet & PLP against bombing, we lost the vote & bombers will be in air tonight & people will die.
He doesn't really get this "parliamentary arithmetic" lark does he?
@johnmcdonnellMP 2 mins2 minutes ago Despite big majorities in both Shadow Cabinet & PLP against bombing, we lost the vote & bombers will be in air tonight & people will die.
Well, sometimes you have to fight with the bomb and the bullet eh John.
Labour MP David Lammy has filed a complaint with the BBC over the lack of ethnic diversity among Question Time panelists, providing research claiming that more than 60% of shows in the last five years had no figures from a black, Asian or other minority ethnic background.
Given standard variations if you got 5 random Brits that's probably about the right proportion of shows not to have a minority. White British are over 80% of the UK right? Besides the panel should be made up of talented people plus a Labour MP.
@Speedy We're all here to debate politics but yr fact "military weaker than ISIS" (Ours) is a nonsense.
Britain's ground forces are certainly weaker than the ones of ISIS. And you can't drive a navy destroyer to Mosul.
Don't be ridiculous - Britain's ground forces would easily beat ISIS in a straight fight. And that's even without taking into account the self imposed handicaps put in place to protect civilians.
"Parliament has just voted to launch airstrikes in Syria. I am reminded of the messages I have received in recent days from my constituents who have expressed deep concern for family in Syria. I also think of our armed forces whose lives will be put in danger.
The fact of the matter is, David Cameron’s case was not convincing, lacking either credible ground troops or a plan for a diplomatic settlement. Since he first made his case for airstrikes in Syria, last Thursday, opposition has mounted; in the country, in parliament and in the Labour Party.
It is impossible to avoid the conclusion that the Prime Minister realised opposition to his ill thought-out rush to war was growing – and he needed to hold the vote before it slipped from his hands. I have argued, and will continue to do so, that we should re-double our efforts to secure a diplomatic and political end to the conflict in Syria.
British service men and women will now be in harm’s way and the loss of innocent lives is sadly almost inevitable."
- Corbyn via facebook
As Hopi Sen observes:
Hopi Sen @hopisen 1m1 minute ago Hopi Sen Retweeted Jeremy Corbyn MP Four years of fighting and atrocities. 250,000 dead. Millions of refugees. Some 'rush to war'. Some 'almost'.
Labour MP David Lammy has filed a complaint with the BBC over the lack of ethnic diversity among Question Time panelists, providing research claiming that more than 60% of shows in the last five years had no figures from a black, Asian or other minority ethnic background.
Given standard variations if you got 5 random Brits that's probably about the right proportion of shows not to have a minority. White British are over 80% of the UK right? Besides the panel should be made up of talented people plus a Labour MP.
One of the comments on the Guardian article did the maths, and it came out to 59% of all panels should have no non-white members on average, assuming 90% white population in UK. David Lammy is an arse.
I suspect the Russians will be raining down cluster bombs, phosphorous and possibly Napalm (They'll stop short of nukes, unless IS continue to really piss them off) and all those things we're not allowed to do.
Dieing for your cause is one thing but having half your face ripped off and being blinded with searing pain might cause a few Jihadis to reconsider.
I hope Putin fucks em royally.
Infantry. They haven't deployed any mass formation of multiple divisions of infantry that is necessary to beat them, that is why regardless of the Russian bombing it has produced no results, the frontline is not moving.
Infantry is the name of the game in today's modern land war. As the wars of Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Libya, Ukraine, Syria and Yemen show an infantry group supplied with anti-tank and anti-air missiles is a far superior one than an armoured or aerial one.
Times reporting Muslim vote will give Labour the win in Oldham
Thought that was always likely to be honest... Someone's laying 5k of Lab at 1.3 on the fair, but I reckon they're probably the same person trying to back 5k at 1.35 just playing the market
They had said they needed two days of debate. War. Peace. To bomb Isil. Not to bomb Isil. The issues were too complex. The stakes too high. The arguments too nuanced.
They were wrong. It boiled down to one speech and one moment. Parliamentary history distilled in a way few of us have seen in our lifetime.
Hilary Benn’s speech. It is about to become the House of Commons “where were you when Kennedy was shot” moment. Where were you sitting. Who were you with. What were you thinking.
Dan Hodges is a tit tho really. A few random quotes about Hitler and Franco and it's the best speech ever?
"And what we know about fascists is that they need to be defeated. And it is why as we have heard tonight socialists and trade unionists and others joined the international brigade in the 1930s to fight against Franco. It’s why this entire House stood up against Hitler and Mussolini. It is why our party has always stood up against the denial of human rights and for justice."
Somewhat ahistorical maybe?
International bridages were terribly successful too, weren't they. Franco only stayed in power for another 40 years after that. Actually maybe the republican side could be a pretty good analogy for the 70000 strong free Syrian army.
Kate Godfrey @KateVotesLabour 1m1 minute ago Andy Burnham telling people he did want to vote for the government, but was upset by Cameron's comment
Just going to leave that right there
The House is asked to vote on what should be one of the most difficult and solemn decisions of any MP, and he voted one way because the PM said something nasty?
I suspect the Russians will be raining down cluster bombs, phosphorous and possibly Napalm (They'll stop short of nukes, unless IS continue to really piss them off) and all those things we're not allowed to do.
Dieing for your cause is one thing but having half your face ripped off and being blinded with searing pain might cause a few Jihadis to reconsider.
I hope Putin fucks em royally.
Infantry. They haven't deployed any mass formation of multiple divisions of infantry that is necessary to beat them, that is why regardless of the Russian bombing it has produced no results, the frontline is not moving.
Infantry is the name of the game in today's modern land war. As the wars of Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Libya, Ukraine, Syria and Yemen show an infantry group supplied with anti-tank and anti-air missiles is a far superior one than an armoured or aerial one.
Kate Godfrey @KateVotesLabour 1m1 minute ago Andy Burnham telling people he did want to vote for the government, but was upset by Cameron's comment
Just going to leave that right there
The House is asked to vote on what should be one of the most difficult and solemn decisions of any MP, and he voted one way because the PM said something nasty?
Pathetic.
the labour party's problems go deeper than Jez, clearly
@Speedy We're all here to debate politics but yr fact "military weaker than ISIS" (Ours) is a nonsense.
Britain's ground forces are certainly weaker than the ones of ISIS. And you can't drive a navy destroyer to Mosul.
Don't be ridiculous - Britain's ground forces would easily beat ISIS in a straight fight. And that's even without taking into account the self imposed handicaps put in place to protect civilians.
Britain has only got 30 thousand troops. ISIS has a much larger number, are battle hardened, has better training, greater motivation, greater morale, has better officer staff, has the latest american weapons ( including but not limited to a 1000 american main battle tanks [Britain has 407]) and is swimming with cash compared with the cash strapped British army.
Britain is not the military power that it was in 1991 at the end of the cold war, it has declined severely in numbers, quality and effectiveness and since Iraq that decline only accelerated.
Back in 2003 the army was stuck outside of Basra and needed 4 days to capture the village of Umm-Qasr a few miles from Kuwait. Imagine the state of the british army on the battlefield after an extra decade of decay.
Some Tory rebels opposed on grounds that all out war was not on the cards (they kinda have a point)
I expect Julian Lewis's preferred option was to drop a nuclear bomb on the place. After all why waste the existing delivery system before it is replaced?
ISIS has a much larger number, are battle hardened, has better training, greater motivation, greater morale, has better officer staff, has the latest american weapons ( including but not limited to a 1000 american main battle tanks [Britain has 407]) and is swimming with cash compared with the cash strapped British army.
@Speedy We're all here to debate politics but yr fact "military weaker than ISIS" (Ours) is a nonsense.
Britain's ground forces are certainly weaker than the ones of ISIS. And you can't drive a navy destroyer to Mosul.
Don't be ridiculous - Britain's ground forces would easily beat ISIS in a straight fight. And that's even without taking into account the self imposed handicaps put in place to protect civilians.
Britain has only got 30 thousand troops. ISIS has a much larger number, are battle hardened, has better training, greater motivation, greater morale, has better officer staff, has the latest american weapons ( including but not limited to a 1000 american main battle tanks [Britain has 407]) and is swimming with cash compared with the cash strapped British army.
Britain is not the military power that it was in 1991 at the end of the cold war, it has declined severely in numbers, quality and effectiveness and since Iraq that decline only accelerated.
Back in 2003 the army was stuck outside of Basra and needed 4 days to capture the village of Umm-Qasr a few miles from Kuwait. Imagine the state of the british army on the battlefield after an extra decade of decay.
I suspect the Russians will be raining down cluster bombs, phosphorous and possibly Napalm (They'll stop short of nukes, unless IS continue to really piss them off) and all those things we're not allowed to do.
Dieing for your cause is one thing but having half your face ripped off and being blinded with searing pain might cause a few Jihadis to reconsider.
I hope Putin fucks em royally.
Infantry. They haven't deployed any mass formation of multiple divisions of infantry that is necessary to beat them, that is why regardless of the Russian bombing it has produced no results, the frontline is not moving.
Infantry is the name of the game in today's modern land war. As the wars of Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Libya, Ukraine, Syria and Yemen show an infantry group supplied with anti-tank and anti-air missiles is a far superior one than an armoured or aerial one.
They came to the same conclusion in 2006 after they crashed their faces on Hezbollah. It led their PM and their senior military leadership to resign over the war failure.
Britain has only got 30 thousand troops. ISIS has a much larger number, are battle hardened, has better training, greater motivation, greater morale, has better officer staff, has the latest american weapons ( including but not limited to a 1000 american main battle tanks [Britain has 407]) and is swimming with cash compared with the cash strapped British army.
they've got a very good bass section, mind, but no top tenors, that's for sure.
@Speedy We're all here to debate politics but yr fact "military weaker than ISIS" (Ours) is a nonsense.
Britain's ground forces are certainly weaker than the ones of ISIS. And you can't drive a navy destroyer to Mosul.
Don't be ridiculous - Britain's ground forces would easily beat ISIS in a straight fight. And that's even without taking into account the self imposed handicaps put in place to protect civilians.
Britain has only got 30 thousand troops. ISIS has a much larger number, are battle hardened, has better training, greater motivation, greater morale, has better officer staff, has the latest american weapons ( including but not limited to a 1000 american main battle tanks [Britain has 407]) and is swimming with cash compared with the cash strapped British army.
Britain is not the military power that it was in 1991 at the end of the cold war, it has declined severely in numbers, quality and effectiveness and since Iraq that decline only accelerated.
Back in 2003 the army was stuck outside of Basra and needed 4 days to capture the village of Umm-Qasr a few miles from Kuwait. Imagine the state of the british army on the battlefield after an extra decade of decay.
ISIS have 1000 tanks? When did this happen?
They are continuously capturing equipment in Iraq.
@SkipLicker: then he said I was a bloody terrorist sympathiser. I was shocked Gerry my old mucker. Shocked I tell you. #SyriaVote https://t.co/P9P6suExqh
@Speedy We're all here to debate politics but yr fact "military weaker than ISIS" (Ours) is a nonsense.
Britain's ground forces are certainly weaker than the ones of ISIS. And you can't drive a navy destroyer to Mosul.
Don't be ridiculous - Britain's ground forces would easily beat ISIS in a straight fight. And that's even without taking into account the self imposed handicaps put in place to protect civilians.
Britain has only got 30 thousand troops. ISIS has a much larger number, are battle hardened, has better training, greater motivation, greater morale, has better officer staff, has the latest american weapons ( including but not limited to a 1000 american main battle tanks [Britain has 407]) and is swimming with cash compared with the cash strapped British army.
Britain is not the military power that it was in 1991 at the end of the cold war, it has declined severely in numbers, quality and effectiveness and since Iraq that decline only accelerated.
Back in 2003 the army was stuck outside of Basra and needed 4 days to capture the village of Umm-Qasr a few miles from Kuwait. Imagine the state of the british army on the battlefield after an extra decade of decay.
ISIS have 1000 tanks? When did this happen?
They are continuously capturing equipment in Iraq.
"There will be Tory rebels going against their party line but it is the LAB split that will get the most attention."
Well it is extremely unlikely that the tory rebels will be the subject of hate mail, bricks thrown through their windows, being personally assaulted - which no doubt will follow to those of Labour who had the courage to vote rationally against the threats made by the sinister Momentum organisation. - Shall we call Momentum the 'redshirts?
@Speedy We're all here to debate politics but yr fact "military weaker than ISIS" (Ours) is a nonsense.
Britain's ground forces are certainly weaker than the ones of ISIS. And you can't drive a navy destroyer to Mosul.
Don't be ridiculous - Britain's ground forces would easily beat ISIS in a straight fight. And that's even without taking into account the self imposed handicaps put in place to protect civilians.
Britain has only got 30 thousand troops. ISIS has a much larger number, are battle hardened, has better training, greater motivation, greater morale, has better officer staff, has the latest american weapons ( including but not limited to a 1000 american main battle tanks [Britain has 407]) and is swimming with cash compared with the cash strapped British army.
Britain is not the military power that it was in 1991 at the end of the cold war, it has declined severely in numbers, quality and effectiveness and since Iraq that decline only accelerated.
Back in 2003 the army was stuck outside of Basra and needed 4 days to capture the village of Umm-Qasr a few miles from Kuwait. Imagine the state of the british army on the battlefield after an extra decade of decay.
I might be a dim scot nit, but the british army has fought with one hand tied behind it's back in Iraq and Afghanistan. Given a free hand the Infantry,artillery and tank corps of the british army would wipe isis out in 1 month.
Speedy you sound like an idiot, surely not? Any of the major countries in our world could destroy ISIS IN Syria if they tried. The problem is that there will then be some in their own country who will then become terrorists and attempt to kill innocent people there. The equation is how much do I need to degrade you vs how much of a problem will you cause me if I don't.
Russia's attacking everyone other than the Syrian government forces. In fact they might even be hitting them seeing as Tu-22M's are apparently dropping unguided bombs from altitude. It's the complete opposite of the approach the RAF have taken.
ISIS has a much larger number, are battle hardened, has better training, greater motivation, greater morale, has better officer staff, has the latest american weapons ( including but not limited to a 1000 american main battle tanks [Britain has 407]) and is swimming with cash compared with the cash strapped British army.
Utter nonsense.
Correct - the lunatic is infantile. (Wiki) ''The assault on the port was spearheaded by British Royal Marines,US Marines from the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit and Polish GROM troops, but Iraqi forces put up unexpectedly strong resistance, requiring several days' fighting before the area was cleared of defenders.[8] After the waterway was de-mined by Australian Clearance Diving Team Three, Helicopter Mine Countermeasures Squadron FOURTEEN Detachment ONE and Naval Special Clearance Team ONE of the U.S. Navy and a Royal Navy Clearance Diving Detachment and reopened, Umm Qasr played an important role in the shipment of humanitarian supplies to Iraqi civilians.[9] During a debate in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom in late March 2003, British Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon somewhat inadvisedly compared Umm Qasr to the southern English city of Southampton. The analogy was met with scepticism among the troops on the ground. A British soldier was widely quoted as retorting, "There's no beer, no prostitutes and people are shooting at us. It's more like Portsmouth." ''
@Speedy We're all here to debate politics but yr fact "military weaker than ISIS" (Ours) is a nonsense.
Britain's ground forces are certainly weaker than the ones of ISIS. And you can't drive a navy destroyer to Mosul.
Don't be ridiculous - Britain's ground forces would easily beat ISIS in a straight fight. And that's even without taking into account the self imposed handicaps put in place to protect civilians.
Britain has only got 30 thousand troops. ISIS has a much larger number, are battle hardened, has better training, greater motivation, greater morale, has better officer staff, has the latest american weapons ( including but not limited to a 1000 american main battle tanks [Britain has 407]) and is swimming with cash compared with the cash strapped British army.
Britain is not the military power that it was in 1991 at the end of the cold war, it has declined severely in numbers, quality and effectiveness and since Iraq that decline only accelerated.
Back in 2003 the army was stuck outside of Basra and needed 4 days to capture the village of Umm-Qasr a few miles from Kuwait. Imagine the state of the british army on the battlefield after an extra decade of decay.
ISIS have 1000 tanks? When did this happen?
I'm sure the Iraqi army were surprised by this too, their active tank strength was less than 400.
@WikiGuido 2h2 hours ago "It was awesome. Absolutely awesome. He was the leader of the opposition and the government." Labour MP on Hilary Benn speech.
@johnmcdonnellMP 2 mins2 minutes ago Despite big majorities in both Shadow Cabinet & PLP against bombing, we lost the vote & bombers will be in air tonight & people will die.
"Big majorities" in the Shadow Cabinet? Can McDonnell count? And he's hoping to be chancellor. Heaven help us.
We can probably conclude he said something like that, but that it's not a direct quotation.
The BBC does have it as a quote, a couple of lines further down: So what is happening is that they are backing the butcher Assad, which is a terrible mistake for them and for the world; it's going to make the region more unstable, it will lead to further radicalisation and increased terrorism.
@Speedy We're all here to debate politics but yr fact "military weaker than ISIS" (Ours) is a nonsense.
Britain's ground forces are certainly weaker than the ones of ISIS. And you can't drive a navy destroyer to Mosul.
Don't be ridiculous - Britain's ground forces would easily beat ISIS in a straight fight. And that's even without taking into account the self imposed handicaps put in place to protect civilians.
Britain has only got 30 thousand troops. ISIS has a much larger number, are battle hardened, has better training, greater motivation, greater morale, has better officer staff, has the latest american weapons ( including but not limited to a 1000 american main battle tanks [Britain has 407]) and is swimming with cash compared with the cash strapped British army.
Britain is not the military power that it was in 1991 at the end of the cold war, it has declined severely in numbers, quality and effectiveness and since Iraq that decline only accelerated.
Back in 2003 the army was stuck outside of Basra and needed 4 days to capture the village of Umm-Qasr a few miles from Kuwait. Imagine the state of the british army on the battlefield after an extra decade of decay.
ISIS have 1000 tanks? When did this happen?
They are continuously capturing equipment in Iraq.
@JeremyCorbyn4PM 5 mins5 minutes ago Our thoughts are with the people of Syria tonight. There will be a heavy human cost to this gesture politics.
Does he not know when to stop?
No, that is the whole point of him
There was once a convention that whatever one felt personally about military action, political leaders made a point of supporting the soldiers to the hilt in the field. Of course there have always been those on the backbenches who haven't particularly paid much attention to this, but now the backbenchers are on the front bench...
Speedy you sound like an idiot, surely not? Any of the major countries in our world could destroy ISIS IN Syria if they tried. The problem is that there will then be some in their own country who will then become terrorists and attempt to kill innocent people there. The equation is how much do I need to degrade you vs how much of a problem will you cause me if I don't.
You are correct that any major country in the world could destroy ISIS if they wanted to, however Britain is not a major country, although it still has nukes that it can use against ISIS it doesn't have the conventional forces.
Comments
Someone has to commit 250 thousand troops that are necessary to defeat them, a force comprising of third world countries under the UN is the only practical solution, not bombing Syria with a tiny force of 16 planes.
That's the reason why I oppose the PM's war plans, because those plans are absurd and will never succeed, Cameron is simply talking loudly while carrying a very small stick.
And now his fate is on the hands of the enemy, since he can't do anything to them to defeat them. It's only a matter of time for the fact to be realized by the public that whatever the PM loudly declares on foreign affairs, the reality is that he's impotent.
http://labourlist.org/2015/12/ed-miliband-opposes-airstrikes-in-syria/
Andy Burnham telling people he did want to vote for the government, but was upset by Cameron's comment
Just going to leave that right there
Thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py3u3P9OpBE
It is easy to negotiate with people who hold similar values and beliefs to you.
Negotiating with a medieval death cult that has no respect for lives and dreams of heavenly virgins is not possible.
Dieing for your cause is one thing but having half your face ripped off and being blinded with searing pain might cause a few Jihadis to reconsider.
I hope Putin fucks em royally.
"Betting in an ever more bat shit crazy world" that covers that
Despite big majorities in both Shadow Cabinet & PLP against bombing, we lost the vote & bombers will be in air tonight & people will die.
http://ukgeneralelection2020.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/the-66-labour-mps-who-voted-for.html
Vaz voted 'for' in the end....
What a shock.
And you can't drive a navy destroyer to Mosul.
11 Shadow Cabinet supported airstrikes:A Eagle, Watson, de Piero, Dugher, M Eagle, Powell, Benn, Alexander, Berger, Bryant, Coaker
My, you are taking jezbollah's loss to heart
Stan Collymore has joined the SNP
Done. No more Tories infiltrating the grand old party of working people anymore. Time to change.
Given standard variations if you got 5 random Brits that's probably about the right proportion of shows not to have a minority. White British are over 80% of the UK right? Besides the panel should be made up of talented people plus a Labour MP.
Hopi Sen @hopisen 1m1 minute ago
Hopi Sen Retweeted Jeremy Corbyn MP
Four years of fighting and atrocities.
250,000 dead. Millions of refugees.
Some 'rush to war'.
Some 'almost'.
They haven't deployed any mass formation of multiple divisions of infantry that is necessary to beat them, that is why regardless of the Russian bombing it has produced no results, the frontline is not moving.
Infantry is the name of the game in today's modern land war.
As the wars of Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Libya, Ukraine, Syria and Yemen show an infantry group supplied with anti-tank and anti-air missiles is a far superior one than an armoured or aerial one.
Campaign sources estimated that more than 6,000 votes had already been cast by post, with about 15 per cent of the electorate eligible to do so.
Dan Hodges is a tit tho really. A few random quotes about Hitler and Franco and it's the best speech ever?
"And what we know about fascists is that they need to be defeated. And it is why as we have heard tonight socialists and trade unionists and others joined the international brigade in the 1930s to fight against Franco. It’s why this entire House stood up against Hitler and Mussolini. It is why our party has always stood up against the denial of human rights and for justice."
Somewhat ahistorical maybe?
International bridages were terribly successful too, weren't they. Franco only stayed in power for another 40 years after that. Actually maybe the republican side could be a pretty good analogy for the 70000 strong free Syrian army.
Pathetic.
Indicates possibly that he wants the leadership yet ?
Ukip activists have been stationed outside Islamic centres in the constituency over the past week, in an attempt to win over Muslim voters
ISIS has a much larger number, are battle hardened, has better training, greater motivation, greater morale, has better officer staff, has the latest american weapons ( including but not limited to a 1000 american main battle tanks [Britain has 407]) and is swimming with cash compared with the cash strapped British army.
Britain is not the military power that it was in 1991 at the end of the cold war, it has declined severely in numbers, quality and effectiveness and since Iraq that decline only accelerated.
Back in 2003 the army was stuck outside of Basra and needed 4 days to capture the village of Umm-Qasr a few miles from Kuwait. Imagine the state of the british army on the battlefield after an extra decade of decay.
Our thoughts are with the people of Syria tonight. There will be a heavy human cost to this gesture politics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winograd_Commission
They came to the same conclusion in 2006 after they crashed their faces on Hezbollah.
It led their PM and their senior military leadership to resign over the war failure.
Nigel Farage: Ukip will wipe out Labour in the north – just as the SNP did in Scotland
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/12029975/Nigel-Farage-Ukip-will-wipe-out-Labour-in-the-north-just-as-the-SNP-did-in-Scotland.html
https://twitter.com/gjpaterson/status/672175237027536896
Edit: taken out of context to be fair
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/10/04/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-britain-idUKKCN0RY08520151004
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/05/20/isis-captures-hundreds-of-us-vehicles-and-tanks-in-ramadi-from-i.html
http://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/isis-seized-2500-armored-military-vehicles-says-pentagon/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/01/iraq-isis-humvees_n_7487254.html
Not to mention the flow of arms from the Turkish border.
Well it is extremely unlikely that the tory rebels will be the subject of hate mail, bricks thrown through their windows, being personally assaulted - which no doubt will follow to those of Labour who had the courage to vote rationally against the threats made by the sinister Momentum organisation. - Shall we call Momentum the 'redshirts?
A later Guardian article (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/17/russian-bombs-terror-vladimir-putin-syria-david-cameron) then converted that into a quote.
We can probably conclude he said something like that, but that it's not a direct quotation.
(Wiki)
''The assault on the port was spearheaded by British Royal Marines,US Marines from the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit and Polish GROM troops, but Iraqi forces put up unexpectedly strong resistance, requiring several days' fighting before the area was cleared of defenders.[8] After the waterway was de-mined by Australian Clearance Diving Team Three, Helicopter Mine Countermeasures Squadron FOURTEEN Detachment ONE and Naval Special Clearance Team ONE of the U.S. Navy and a Royal Navy Clearance Diving Detachment and reopened, Umm Qasr played an important role in the shipment of humanitarian supplies to Iraqi civilians.[9]
During a debate in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom in late March 2003, British Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon somewhat inadvisedly compared Umm Qasr to the southern English city of Southampton. The analogy was met with scepticism among the troops on the ground. A British soldier was widely quoted as retorting, "There's no beer, no prostitutes and people are shooting at us. It's more like Portsmouth." ''
(the army has something like 82,000 personnel)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343270/Is-giving-Margaret-Beckett-finger-Labour-MP-appears-make-rude-gesture-party-colleague-argues-extending-airstrikes-against-ISIS-Syria.html
"It was awesome. Absolutely awesome. He was the leader of the opposition and the government." Labour MP on Hilary Benn speech.
You could argue the context is different.