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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Neil Findlay – Henry G Manson’s tip for next Scottish LAB lead

So far the bookmakers appear to have worked on the assumption that it was there for the taking for the so-called Westminster ‘big beasts’ of Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy with Anas Sarwar the Scottish Labour Deputy the main MSP contender. However with both Brown and Sarwar now ruling themselves out, the field opens considerably.

Read the full story here

HenryGManson

At the moment Findlay is said to be currently encouraging Gordon Brown to stand. If Brown continues to decline the offer then this puts Findlay in a very strong position. The Brown network in the Scottish Labour party will support pretty much anyone but Jim Murphy.

Morris_Dancer

Interesting piece, Mr. Manson. Why does Brown (or his network) loathe Murphy so?

TCPoliticalBetting

Good news, after the Unions got their man in as Labour (UK) Leader we now have the Unions getting in their choice as SLAB Leader. And it worked out so well last time?

Scott_P

I'm on.

I took the 14, 16 and 20 on offer and declined Shadsy's 5/2

SouthamObserver

The most important issue for Labour in Scotland is that it should be set free from London in terms of policy-making and set-up. The new leader should lead what is effectively an independent party that sits with English and Welsh Labour MPs in Westminster, and calls all the shots for Holyrood.

SouthamObserver

HenryGManson said:

At the moment Findlay is said to be currently encouraging Gordon Brown to stand. If Brown continues to decline the offer then this puts Findlay in a very strong position. The Brown network in the Scottish Labour party will support pretty much anyone but Jim Murphy.

Yep - as I said yesterday, Brown will pretty much decide who gets the job. The bigger call, though, is the Scottish party's relationship with London. If that is not properly sorted then whoever leads in Scotland will be on a hiding to nothing.

Pulpstar

In for £20 at 16s (£5) and £15 (14s)

OldKingCole

Morris_Dancer said:

Interesting piece, Mr. Manson. Why does Brown (or his network) loathe Murphy so?

I will never understand why some individuals in political parties, especially the Labour Party, appear to hate each other to the degree to which they do.
You’d think they would have some fellow-feeling!

Pulpstar

SouthamObserver said:

HenryGManson said:

At the moment Findlay is said to be currently encouraging Gordon Brown to stand. If Brown continues to decline the offer then this puts Findlay in a very strong position. The Brown network in the Scottish Labour party will support pretty much anyone but Jim Murphy.

Yep - as I said yesterday, Brown will pretty much decide who gets the job. The bigger call, though, is the Scottish party's relationship with London. If that is not properly sorted then whoever leads in Scotland will be on a hiding to nothing.

Don't you dare go backing Mr Findlay !

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Observer, won't that also necessitate an effective split between Scottish MPs and MSPs, though? The latter would be responsible to the Scottish leader and the former to the British leader (who could also be Scottish...).

There might well be Scottish MSPs and MPs on differing sides on certain issues.

Pulpstar

Hills into 3s, Skybet still available at 14s for anyone who wants to join the party.

Morris_Dancer

King Cole, some think heretics are worse than heathens.

DavidL

I simply can't resist pointing out that one of the problems that Lamont had with Ed was his refusal to condemn the bedroom tax for over a year.

In the heading the quote from Findlay points out that there are 180,000 families stuck on waiting lists in Scotland while tens of thousands of public sector houses have under occupancy. Just maybe Ed had a reason to hesitate?

From a Tory point of view Labour and the SNP having a competition as to who can be the most left wing must surely open up opportunities. That said tories will have to pay the consequences and bills of the socialist republic of Scotland whoever wins between these two.

JBriskin

"We are the only hope for the people of Scotland" Katy Clark MP, Labour, Daily politics (it's still on...)

felix

SouthamObserver said:

HenryGManson said:

At the moment Findlay is said to be currently encouraging Gordon Brown to stand. If Brown continues to decline the offer then this puts Findlay in a very strong position. The Brown network in the Scottish Labour party will support pretty much anyone but Jim Murphy.

Yep - as I said yesterday, Brown will pretty much decide who gets the job. The bigger call, though, is the Scottish party's relationship with London. If that is not properly sorted then whoever leads in Scotland will be on a hiding to nothing.

The whole setup of the party just reeks of cronyism - the product of too much one party rule in much of Scotland. In many ways I think a yes vote in the referendum might have been the healthiest long-term result for both Scotland and the rest of the UK.

SouthamObserver

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Observer, won't that also necessitate an effective split between Scottish MPs and MSPs, though? The latter would be responsible to the Scottish leader and the former to the British leader (who could also be Scottish...).

There might well be Scottish MSPs and MPs on differing sides on certain issues.

MPs would be sent to Westminster as Scottish Labour. Yes, it may well mean the odd split. But a few splits with 40 Scottish Labour MPs is better than rock solid support from 20 to 25 London Labour MPs. And if Labour in Scotland does not establish an independent voice it is going to start losing seats big time.

AndyJS

Update — UKPR polling average:

Lab 34%
Con 32%
UKIP 16%
LD 8%
Greens 5%

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/uk-polling-report-average-2

Richard_Nabavi

Thanks, Henry.

edmundintokyo

SouthamObserver said:

The most important issue for Labour in Scotland is that it should be set free from London in terms of policy-making and set-up. The new leader should lead what is effectively an independent party that sits with English and Welsh Labour MPs in Westminster, and calls all the shots for Holyrood.

I don't know much about Scotland but I'm not sure that works. In British politics everything is either wonderful or evil, and it's going to be hard for the Scottish leader to say X is Wonderful while the leader of her party is saying X is Evil, and vice versa.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Observer, that would be more complicated, though. English people won't fail to notice Labour is saying one thing to them and another to Scotland. If all MPs are responsible to and directed by the British leader, that issue doesn't arise. If Scottish MPs are responsible to the Scottish Labour leader then that could and (in all likelihood) would lead to Labour MPs north and south of the border having differing opinions on key areas.

I don't know whether that would be sustainable.

AlastairMeeks

DavidL said:

I simply can't resist pointing out that one of the problems that Lamont had with Ed was his refusal to condemn the bedroom tax for over a year.

In the heading the quote from Findlay points out that there are 180,000 families stuck on waiting lists in Scotland while tens of thousands of public sector houses have under occupancy. Just maybe Ed had a reason to hesitate?

From a Tory point of view Labour and the SNP having a competition as to who can be the most left wing must surely open up opportunities. That said tories will have to pay the consequences and bills of the socialist republic of Scotland whoever wins between these two.

On this specific point, I have no sympathy for Johann Lamont. If she wanted to condemn the bedroom tax, she should have just gone ahead and done it. She was an elected figure with her own mandate, and she should have exercised it.

felix

I love the Owen Jones quote in the header. If that is what Scotland needs it's not just another country it's on a different planet!

DavidL

It is very likely that the Unions and west coast mafia (in conjunction with Gordon Brown) will determine the outcome of this but from those I heard and spoke to in the referendum campaign Jenny Marra, a regional list MSP from Dundee, really stood out. She dealt well with the media, she was an extremely active campaigner (unlike so many who earn their living from positions to which they were appointed/elected by Labour) and she is moderate enough to broaden the support that SLAB need to get.

The last point will probably be fatal to her in this race to the left but sanity has a certain attraction, even in Scotland.

JonnyJimmy

Last night I said "I'm thinking there must be some value in the skybet 50/1 on Pochettino being next PL manager sacked"

He's now 20/1, did someone listen to me?

JBriskin

DavidL said:

It is very likely that the Unions and west coast mafia (in conjunction with Gordon Brown) will determine the outcome of this but from those I heard and spoke to in the referendum campaign Jenny Marra, a regional list MSP from Dundee, really stood out. She dealt well with the media, she was an extremely active campaigner (unlike so many who earn their living from positions to which they were appointed/elected by Labour) and she is moderate enough to broaden the support that SLAB need to get.

The last point will probably be fatal to her in this race to the left but sanity has a certain attraction, even in Scotland.

I think the term was east coast mafia - the clues in his constituency...

Carnyx

DavidL said:

I simply can't resist pointing out that one of the problems that Lamont had with Ed was his refusal to condemn the bedroom tax for over a year.

In the heading the quote from Findlay points out that there are 180,000 families stuck on waiting lists in Scotland while tens of thousands of public sector houses have under occupancy. Just maybe Ed had a reason to hesitate?

From a Tory point of view Labour and the SNP having a competition as to who can be the most left wing must surely open up opportunities. That said tories will have to pay the consequences and bills of the socialist republic of Scotland whoever wins between these two.

The problem is whether there are any smaller houses at all to downgrade to. Mr Findlay's quote does not consider this issue. IIRC Labour built about 6 (six) council houses during their last term of government in Scotland, which I suppose proves his point in a way he might not like ...

However, more generally, Mr F has a huge advantage - to any rational being, that is - in that he is not a Westminster MP. To have SLAB - or what pretends to be SLAB - controlled by MPs as both leader and dep leader (as Mr Sarwar already is) would only reinforce the problems they have been having, and give the SNP a huge own goal given that about 35% of Labour voters voted Yes.

I am also extremely sceptical that anyone would seriously want the position of leader, with the prospects of the 2015 and 2016 elections, and no obvious reform of the relationship with London GHQ. If I were Kezia Dugdale I'd think I was young enough to be better to wait for the contest after the - presumed - defeat in those elections and the ejection of another leader.

There is also some very interesting stuff in the reportage in the Herald today, though some of it is just about the "he did! No, she did!" acrimony that has erupted. and an interesting piece by Lesley Riddoch:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/lesley-riddoch-labour-s-great-divide-is-laid-bare-1-3584509

JBriskin

antifrank said:

DavidL said:

I simply can't resist pointing out that one of the problems that Lamont had with Ed was his refusal to condemn the bedroom tax for over a year.

In the heading the quote from Findlay points out that there are 180,000 families stuck on waiting lists in Scotland while tens of thousands of public sector houses have under occupancy. Just maybe Ed had a reason to hesitate?

From a Tory point of view Labour and the SNP having a competition as to who can be the most left wing must surely open up opportunities. That said tories will have to pay the consequences and bills of the socialist republic of Scotland whoever wins between these two.

On this specific point, I have no sympathy for Johann Lamont. If she wanted to condemn the bedroom tax, she should have just gone ahead and done it. She was an elected figure with her own mandate, and she should have exercised it.

She did just about every Thursday (Fmqs)

I take Felix's point.

FTR - Briskin and co are not labour

felix

antifrank said:

DavidL said:

I simply can't resist pointing out that one of the problems that Lamont had with Ed was his refusal to condemn the bedroom tax for over a year.

In the heading the quote from Findlay points out that there are 180,000 families stuck on waiting lists in Scotland while tens of thousands of public sector houses have under occupancy. Just maybe Ed had a reason to hesitate?

From a Tory point of view Labour and the SNP having a competition as to who can be the most left wing must surely open up opportunities. That said tories will have to pay the consequences and bills of the socialist republic of Scotland whoever wins between these two.

On this specific point, I have no sympathy for Johann Lamont. If she wanted to condemn the bedroom tax, she should have just gone ahead and done it. She was an elected figure with her own mandate, and she should have exercised it.

I think that's unfair. The whole setup is clearly dysfunctional and you can't blame that all on the junior partner.

Pulpstar

Hope everyone got on, Sky Bet have taken the market down.

dr_spyn

David Cameron will "open up a Pandora's box" if he refuses to pay an extra £1.7bn (2.1bn euros) demanded from the UK by the European Union, the EU budgets commissioner has warned.

Jacek Dominik said UK representatives had "never raised this issue with me".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29784488

Anyone know any more about Cameron's visit to Leeds, Twitter full of rumours about him being pushed about by a protester.

Pulpstar

This bet sort of reminds me of when I backed Kingston Hill at 16s for the Derby.

Unfortunately there is no Each Way option in political betting >< !

Carnyx

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Observer, that would be more complicated, though. English people won't fail to notice Labour is saying one thing to them and another to Scotland. If all MPs are responsible to and directed by the British leader, that issue doesn't arise. If Scottish MPs are responsible to the Scottish Labour leader then that could and (in all likelihood) would lead to Labour MPs north and south of the border having differing opinions on key areas.

I don't know whether that would be sustainable.

If I may interject: many folk (including, IIRC, some PBers) would say that Labour have already been trying to say one thing to the Scots and something different to those south of the border, as their motivation for setting up the Scottish Pmt and Welsh Assembly. The problems which Ms Lamont had in trying to pretend to be a socialist while following London Labour policies show very well that that is, arguably, already demonstrably unsustainable. Of course, if the Scots split off from London Labour, that would not be an issue. But it would defeat the entire purpose of Labour in the UK, in more than one sense.

Bond_James_Bond

Is anyone else tittering at the way Labour's Scottish elite are all furiously taking Ed Miliband for task for having no idea about what's happening up here on the ground in Scottish politics?

Where have I heard that before?

Stuart?

Stuuuuuuuuart!

felix

I think it's pretty clear that UK Labour's only real interest in Scotland is to prohibiting lobby fodder for London. Their devomax suggestions are much less generous than either the Con. or LD offer - the contempt shines through.

Carnyx

felix said:

antifrank said:

DavidL said:

I simply can't resist pointing out that one of the problems that Lamont had with Ed was his refusal to condemn the bedroom tax for over a year.

In the heading the quote from Findlay points out that there are 180,000 families stuck on waiting lists in Scotland while tens of thousands of public sector houses have under occupancy. Just maybe Ed had a reason to hesitate?

From a Tory point of view Labour and the SNP having a competition as to who can be the most left wing must surely open up opportunities. That said tories will have to pay the consequences and bills of the socialist republic of Scotland whoever wins between these two.

On this specific point, I have no sympathy for Johann Lamont. If she wanted to condemn the bedroom tax, she should have just gone ahead and done it. She was an elected figure with her own mandate, and she should have exercised it.

I think that's unfair. The whole setup is clearly dysfunctional and you can't blame that all on the junior partner.

Talk of election reminds me: a lot of the candidates for SLAB boss who have been touted in the media are only List MSPs - not elected in the first round from constituencies. That's not an obstacle in principle - Ms Davidson (the Tory one) is a List MSP too. But it may be a weakness in some eyes.

JBriskin

Carnyx said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Observer, that would be more complicated, though. English people won't fail to notice Labour is saying one thing to them and another to Scotland. If all MPs are responsible to and directed by the British leader, that issue doesn't arise. If Scottish MPs are responsible to the Scottish Labour leader then that could and (in all likelihood) would lead to Labour MPs north and south of the border having differing opinions on key areas.

I don't know whether that would be sustainable.

If I may interject: many folk (including, IIRC, some PBers) would say that Labour have already been trying to say one thing to the Scots and something different to those south of the border, as their motivation for setting up the Scottish Pmt and Welsh Assembly. The problems which Ms Lamont had in trying to pretend to be a socialist while following London Labour policies show very well that that is, arguably, already demonstrably unsustainable. Of course, if the Scots split off from London Labour, that would not be an issue. But it would defeat the entire purpose of Labour in the UK, in more than one sense.

You missed off the "#45"

Smarmeron

Beeb breaking...

"SA prosecutors says they are appealing Oscar Pistorius' conviction and sentence for the killing of Reeva Steenkamp"

Carnyx

felix said:

I think it's pretty clear that UK Labour's only real interest in Scotland is to prohibiting lobby fodder for London. Their devomax suggestions are much less generous than either the Con. or LD offer - the contempt shines through.

Quite so. 'Provide', presumably, rather than 'prohibit' - but yes.

It has been pointed out that having SLAB leaderless (except for Mr Sarwar MP, deputy and acting leader) does not help sorting out the Smith Commission consensus. So basically Ms Lamont has also had a good go at wrecking that too (inadvertently or otherwise).

JBriskin

Smarmeron said:

Beeb breaking...

"SA prosecutors says they are appealing Oscar Pistorius' conviction and sentence for the killing of Reeva Steenkamp"

They've got a lawyer yapping on Sky news already...

Pulpstar

Smarmeron said:

Beeb breaking...

"SA prosecutors says they are appealing Oscar Pistorius' conviction and sentence for the killing of Reeva Steenkamp"

Good.

For me the court read far too much into Oscar's actions after the event. I'm sure he was very sorry indeed, and probably wallowing in self pity too for blowing Reeva's brains out.

Carnyx

JBriskin said:

Carnyx said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Observer, that would be more complicated, though. English people won't fail to notice Labour is saying one thing to them and another to Scotland. If all MPs are responsible to and directed by the British leader, that issue doesn't arise. If Scottish MPs are responsible to the Scottish Labour leader then that could and (in all likelihood) would lead to Labour MPs north and south of the border having differing opinions on key areas.

I don't know whether that would be sustainable.

If I may interject: many folk (including, IIRC, some PBers) would say that Labour have already been trying to say one thing to the Scots and something different to those south of the border, as their motivation for setting up the Scottish Pmt and Welsh Assembly. The problems which Ms Lamont had in trying to pretend to be a socialist while following London Labour policies show very well that that is, arguably, already demonstrably unsustainable. Of course, if the Scots split off from London Labour, that would not be an issue. But it would defeat the entire purpose of Labour in the UK, in more than one sense.

You missed off the "#45"

Hmm, so I did. What happens with the pro-indy wing of Labour remains to be seen, as with the faction which wants to split off completely from London (as a party, anyway, not necessarily [I think! but may be wrong] in terms of dissolving the union).

felix

Carnyx said:

felix said:

I think it's pretty clear that UK Labour's only real interest in Scotland is to prohibiting lobby fodder for London. Their devomax suggestions are much less generous than either the Con. or LD offer - the contempt shines through.

Quite so. 'Provide', presumably, rather than 'prohibit' - but yes.

It has been pointed out that having SLAB leaderless (except for Mr Sarwar MP, deputy and acting leader) does not help sorting out the Smith Commission consensus. So basically Ms Lamont has also had a good go at wrecking that too (inadvertently or otherwise).

Oops sorry - the perils of not checking predictive text!

JBriskin

Carnyx said:

JBriskin said:

Carnyx said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Observer, that would be more complicated, though. English people won't fail to notice Labour is saying one thing to them and another to Scotland. If all MPs are responsible to and directed by the British leader, that issue doesn't arise. If Scottish MPs are responsible to the Scottish Labour leader then that could and (in all likelihood) would lead to Labour MPs north and south of the border having differing opinions on key areas.

I don't know whether that would be sustainable.

If I may interject: many folk (including, IIRC, some PBers) would say that Labour have already been trying to say one thing to the Scots and something different to those south of the border, as their motivation for setting up the Scottish Pmt and Welsh Assembly. The problems which Ms Lamont had in trying to pretend to be a socialist while following London Labour policies show very well that that is, arguably, already demonstrably unsustainable. Of course, if the Scots split off from London Labour, that would not be an issue. But it would defeat the entire purpose of Labour in the UK, in more than one sense.

You missed off the "#45"

Hmm, so I did. What happens with the pro-indy wing of Labour remains to be seen, as with the faction which wants to split off completely from London (as a party, anyway, not necessarily [I think! but may be wrong] in terms of dissolving the union).

Sehr Guht - Touche.

(Southern britains - there is no pro-indy wing of Labour)

felix

dr_spyn said:

David Cameron will "open up a Pandora's box" if he refuses to pay an extra £1.7bn (2.1bn euros) demanded from the UK by the European Union, the EU budgets commissioner has warned.

Jacek Dominik said UK representatives had "never raised this issue with me".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29784488

Anyone know any more about Cameron's visit to Leeds, Twitter full of rumours about him being pushed about by a protester.

I think the EU tactics here seriously risk a boo result. In the current economic climate that would probably hurt the EU almost as much as the UK at least in the short term.

TGOHF

felix said:

I think it's pretty clear that UK Labour's only real interest in Scotland is to prohibiting lobby fodder for London. Their devomax suggestions are much less generous than either the Con. or LD offer - the contempt shines through.

Wah wah - I want 40 votes in the commons - that's Ed's strategy.

Labour are one the terminal decline - north and south of the border. Won't end until Miliband is gone.

Carnyx

JBriskin said:

Carnyx said:

JBriskin said:

Carnyx said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Observer, that would be more complicated, though. English people won't fail to notice Labour is saying one thing to them and another to Scotland. If all MPs are responsible to and directed by the British leader, that issue doesn't arise. If Scottish MPs are responsible to the Scottish Labour leader then that could and (in all likelihood) would lead to Labour MPs north and south of the border having differing opinions on key areas.

I don't know whether that would be sustainable.

If I may interject: many folk (including, IIRC, some PBers) would say that Labour have already been trying to say one thing to the Scots and something different to those south of the border, as their motivation for setting up the Scottish Pmt and Welsh Assembly. The problems which Ms Lamont had in trying to pretend to be a socialist while following London Labour policies show very well that that is, arguably, already demonstrably unsustainable. Of course, if the Scots split off from London Labour, that would not be an issue. But it would defeat the entire purpose of Labour in the UK, in more than one sense.

You missed off the "#45"

Hmm, so I did. What happens with the pro-indy wing of Labour remains to be seen, as with the faction which wants to split off completely from London (as a party, anyway, not necessarily [I think! but may be wrong] in terms of dissolving the union).

Sehr Guht - Touche.

(Southern britains - there is no pro-indy wing of Labour)

Ooh yes there is, JB, it's called Labour for Independence! Though I'm not sure if it is still particularly active just now as opposed to waiting to see what their opponents come up with.

Anyway must go and check my bills for the month ... have been procrastinating ...

SouthamObserver

Carnyx said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Observer, that would be more complicated, though. English people won't fail to notice Labour is saying one thing to them and another to Scotland. If all MPs are responsible to and directed by the British leader, that issue doesn't arise. If Scottish MPs are responsible to the Scottish Labour leader then that could and (in all likelihood) would lead to Labour MPs north and south of the border having differing opinions on key areas.

I don't know whether that would be sustainable.

If I may interject: many folk (including, IIRC, some PBers) would say that Labour have already been trying to say one thing to the Scots and something different to those south of the border, as their motivation for setting up the Scottish Pmt and Welsh Assembly. The problems which Ms Lamont had in trying to pretend to be a socialist while following London Labour policies show very well that that is, arguably, already demonstrably unsustainable. Of course, if the Scots split off from London Labour, that would not be an issue. But it would defeat the entire purpose of Labour in the UK, in more than one sense.

The likelihood of Scottish Labour going it alone immediately is very small, I accept. But it needs to happen - perhaps as a step by step process. Edinburgh is where the action is going to increasingly be for Scotland-based politicians of all parties and having to second guess London or, even worse, being directed from London is not only going to be electorally damaging, but also impossible in practice. The UK is changing and will change even more dramatically over the next ten years. Labour across the UK can either be a part of that or it can reap the dividends of refusing to accept the inevitable.

isam

Imagine a UKIP politician being touted for big things being in a group called "Hey Negrita"

Assuming this is the same Neil Findlay that is the drummer in that band, I am surprised the Labour wimmins group for racial awareness and female exploitation allow a man that is in a band named after a song glamorising paying black women for sex in the party

Luis Suarez got into a lot of trouble for sing the masculine form of that word

I couldn't care less personally but this would be the main focus if it was a UKIP politician

SouthamObserver

edmundintokyo said:

SouthamObserver said:

The most important issue for Labour in Scotland is that it should be set free from London in terms of policy-making and set-up. The new leader should lead what is effectively an independent party that sits with English and Welsh Labour MPs in Westminster, and calls all the shots for Holyrood.

I don't know much about Scotland but I'm not sure that works. In British politics everything is either wonderful or evil, and it's going to be hard for the Scottish leader to say X is Wonderful while the leader of her party is saying X is Evil, and vice versa.

British politics is going to be far less of an issue in the future in most key areas. The primary duty of Scottish Labour MPs and MSPs is to represent their constituents, not the central leadership in London.

TGOHF

felix said:

dr_spyn said:

David Cameron will "open up a Pandora's box" if he refuses to pay an extra £1.7bn (2.1bn euros) demanded from the UK by the European Union, the EU budgets commissioner has warned.

Jacek Dominik said UK representatives had "never raised this issue with me".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29784488

Anyone know any more about Cameron's visit to Leeds, Twitter full of rumours about him being pushed about by a protester.

I think the EU tactics here seriously risk a boo result. In the current economic climate that would probably hurt the EU almost as much as the UK at least in the short term.

Certainly will - its the equivalent of the left wanting to chase rich people out of the Uk - we are large net contributors to the EU - perhaps that would be the only plus point of Labour getting in May - they could realign our economy such that we paid in less.

JBriskin

Sky - Cammo not giving Brussels their 2Bn quid

Tykejohnno

David Cameron shoved by protester in Leeds

Security around Prime Minister is breached outside Leeds Civic Centre when member of public pushes David Cameron


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11190075/David-Cameron-shoved-by-protester-in-leeds.html

Pulpstar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hey_Negrita

Neil Findlay drums, percussion
Hey Negrita is an English country blues band formed in London in 2002.

Same person ?

isam

Pulpstar said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hey_Negrita

Neil Findlay drums, percussion
Hey Negrita is an English country blues band formed in London in 2002.

Same person ?

Thinking about it, its probably not him is it?!

AndreaParma_82

From BBC:

A man ran into the PM as he left the city's Civic Hall, but he did not fall over and was driven away from the scene, apparently uninjured.

Police took the 28-year-old man away. He was arrested but later released.

West Yorkshire Police later tweeted that no threat had been made, adding: "Nothing sinister, just a man in the wrong place at the wrong time."

TGOHF

isam said:

Imagine a UKIP politician being touted for big things being in a group called "Hey Negrita"

It would be a "huge boost" for Ukip - but not as big a boost as if he wasn't in a band called that - that would be an "even bigger boost".

Not everything is about Ukip you know - there's a name for that sort of complex..

edmundintokyo

SouthamObserver said:

edmundintokyo said:

SouthamObserver said:

The most important issue for Labour in Scotland is that it should be set free from London in terms of policy-making and set-up. The new leader should lead what is effectively an independent party that sits with English and Welsh Labour MPs in Westminster, and calls all the shots for Holyrood.

I don't know much about Scotland but I'm not sure that works. In British politics everything is either wonderful or evil, and it's going to be hard for the Scottish leader to say X is Wonderful while the leader of her party is saying X is Evil, and vice versa.

British politics is going to be far less of an issue in the future in most key areas. The primary duty of Scottish Labour MPs and MSPs is to represent their constituents, not the central leadership in London.

Sure, but they still get news about the UK up there, don't they? You can't have the same brand represent a bunch of contradictory things.

What you could do is rebrand Scottish Labour and stop calling them Labour, but I'd have thought that would lose them more than they'd gain from the ability to act independently. And it still gets tricky when they're in government, because they'd presumably be part of the governing coalition.

Pulpstar

isam said:

Pulpstar said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hey_Negrita

Neil Findlay drums, percussion
Hey Negrita is an English country blues band formed in London in 2002.

Same person ?

Thinking about it, its probably not him is it?!

Probably not.

GIN1138

AndyJS said:

Update — UKPR polling average:

Lab 34%
Con 32%
UKIP 16%
LD 8%
Greens 5%

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/uk-polling-report-average-2

Looks like the 35% strategy has turned into a 34% strategy, LOL?

OldKingCole

Morris_Dancer said:

King Cole, some think heretics are worse than heathens.

Sorry to be so long coming back, but too often these disputes seem to be personality based, rather than based on some arcane political point.

isam

TGOHF said:

isam said:

Imagine a UKIP politician being touted for big things being in a group called "Hey Negrita"

It would be a "huge boost" for Ukip - but not as big a boost as if he wasn't in a band called that - that would be an "even bigger boost".

Not everything is about Ukip you know - there's a name for that sort of complex..

I am sure there will be a time in the future where everything is pretty bad for ukip. At the moment things are undeniably going really well for ukip... you shouldn't get so annoyed by people who support them mentioning it, especially when it is usually in response to a desperate claim that its all going wrong

A bit like when you used to post the YouGovs at 10.01pm every night back in June/or July and say "UKIP just don't get 14% any more..."

There's a name for that sort of complex too!

dr_spyn

AndreaParma_82 said:

From BBC:

A man ran into the PM as he left the city's Civic Hall, but he did not fall over and was driven away from the scene, apparently uninjured.

Police took the 28-year-old man away. He was arrested but later released.

West Yorkshire Police later tweeted that no threat had been made, adding: "Nothing sinister, just a man in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Web report.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29784493

isam

Pulpstar said:

isam said:

Pulpstar said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hey_Negrita

Neil Findlay drums, percussion
Hey Negrita is an English country blues band formed in London in 2002.

Same person ?

Thinking about it, its probably not him is it?!

Probably not.

Although...

"Findlay, who is originally from Scotland and who has worked both as a drums tutor and also as a session musician, was a late addition to the group, joining the band in April of this year when Bectolsheimer and Heiman decided that they needed a drummer for gigging purposes"

http://www.pennyblackmusic.co.uk/MagSitePages/Article.aspx?id=3682

HenryGManson

This article has a reminder near the bottom of how the Scottish Labour leadership result came about last time through the electoral college that will be used again this time. Suffice to say this blog is not exactly enthusiastic about a Jim Murphy leadership.

http://www.leftfutures.org/2014/10/murphy-as-leader-would-destroy-scottish-labour-only-one-from-the-left-can-save-it/

GIN1138

Anthony's graph not great for Lab;

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2

After arresting their spring decline over the summer Labour appears to be dropping again through autumn.

If they fall any more they surely will find themselves going UNDER Con?

Flightpath

SouthamObserver said:

edmundintokyo said:

SouthamObserver said:

The most important issue for Labour in Scotland is that it should be set free from London in terms of policy-making and set-up. The new leader should lead what is effectively an independent party that sits with English and Welsh Labour MPs in Westminster, and calls all the shots for Holyrood.

I don't know much about Scotland but I'm not sure that works. In British politics everything is either wonderful or evil, and it's going to be hard for the Scottish leader to say X is Wonderful while the leader of her party is saying X is Evil, and vice versa.

British politics is going to be far less of an issue in the future in most key areas. The primary duty of Scottish Labour MPs and MSPs is to represent their constituents, not the central leadership in London.

And if they believe that the best interests of their constituents is a Labour Govt in Westminster? Then why shoot themselves in the foot? Labour MSPs are showing themselves to be as thick as the nutjob tendency amongst the tory backbench.
Don't get me wrong, I am quit happy for them to. But I fail to see how supporting their main party in Westminster is mutually exclusive for any MSP in any party. There sems to be an obsession in all circles to get your own way and damn the consequences for everything else.
Nothing is ever entirely wholly right and nothing is ever entirely wholly wrong and nothing is ever entirely wholly 100% possible.
We have a strange situation where the Scottish Leader cannot bear to work with the Labour leadership, but Farage can happily cosy up to a Polish neo-nazi.

Artist

"This is all very good news for Neil Findlay the likely trade union candidate and Shadow Cabinet Member for Health. He wouldn’t be favourite to beat Jim Murphy, but he’d certainly have a chance"

I don't see how Findlay wouldn't be favourite to win all three groups. He'd surely win the trade union vote, the MSP's are going to want someone from the Scottish parliament to be leader (Tom Harris MP came a distant third to his two MSP opponents in the PLP vote in 2011) and his tact left would make him more favourable to members than Murphy.

isam

Flightpath said:

SouthamObserver said:

edmundintokyo said:

SouthamObserver said:

The most important issue for Labour in Scotland is that it should be set free from London in terms of policy-making and set-up. The new leader should lead what is effectively an independent party that sits with English and Welsh Labour MPs in Westminster, and calls all the shots for Holyrood.

I don't know much about Scotland but I'm not sure that works. In British politics everything is either wonderful or evil, and it's going to be hard for the Scottish leader to say X is Wonderful while the leader of her party is saying X is Evil, and vice versa.

British politics is going to be far less of an issue in the future in most key areas. The primary duty of Scottish Labour MPs and MSPs is to represent their constituents, not the central leadership in London.

And if they believe that the best interests of their constituents is a Labour Govt in Westminster? Then why shoot themselves in the foot? Labour MSPs are showing themselves to be as thick as the nutjob tendency amongst the tory backbench.
Don't get me wrong, I am quit happy for them to. But I fail to see how supporting their main party in Westminster is mutually exclusive for any MSP in any party. There sems to be an obsession in all circles to get your own way and damn the consequences for everything else.
Nothing is ever entirely wholly right and nothing is ever entirely wholly wrong and nothing is ever entirely wholly 100% possible.
We have a strange situation where the Scottish Leader cannot bear to work with the Labour leadership, but Farage can happily cosy up to a Polish neo-nazi.

.. and what about that awful UKIP politician yesterday who said English people were being "swamped" by immigrants? Eurgh how disgusting!

dr_spyn

Guido has posted video of Cameron being shoved.
http://order-order.com/2014/10/27/pictures-cameron-shoved-by-protester-in-leeds/#comments

Think it was linked from ITN.

FrancisUrquhart

Great work from the security detail around Cameron...NOT...

http://order-order.com/2014/10/27/pictures-cameron-shoved-by-protester-in-leeds/

Crowded location...nope...
Difficult to see protester coming...nope..
Security detail fast asleep on the job...yeap

JBriskin

Briskmeister away to commit copyright fraud.

I check my f-ing privaleges - every f-ing second.

PS - It's from the Scottish Times...

dr_spyn

Glad I got that on Camera!

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-10-27/video-shows-hs3-protester-pushing-prime-minister/

ITN coverage.

Smarmeron

@FrancisUrquhart
"Difficult to see protester coming"

Protester? Do you have information the police should know?

JBriskin

The Likely Contenders-

Jim Murphy - Shadow international development secretary. He revelled in the high-profile role he got from his now famous "100 towns in 100 days" tour for Better Together during the referendum. Affable, combative and authoritative.

Douglas Alexander - Shadow foreign secretary and the man Ed Miliband may well turn to for advice on what can be done to solve this crisis. But he may wish to stay at Westminster, with the hope of a top job, if Labour wins the election

Carnyx

HenryGManson said:

This article has a reminder near the bottom of how the Scottish Labour leadership result came about last time through the electoral college that will be used again this time. Suffice to say this blog is not exactly enthusiastic about a Jim Murphy leadership.

http://www.leftfutures.org/2014/10/murphy-as-leader-would-destroy-scottish-labour-only-one-from-the-left-can-save-it/

Thanks for posting that. Very interesting in its perspective from the Scottish Labour left.

MikeK

I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the f*ckin' flu!

JBriskin

Anas Sarwar - Acting leader of the Scottish Labour party. young and talented, but he may not be quick enough to cope with Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon.

Kezia Dugdale - Shadow education minister. At 33, she has been an MSP for three years. Capable, but she is inexperienced and would probably prefer to go for the deputy leadership.

Neil Findlay - Shadow health minister. Tough and talented and being from the left of the party he would have the union's backing. But he may be too left-wing for fellow MSPs.

Garethofthevale

Artist said:

"This is all very good news for Neil Findlay the likely trade union candidate and Shadow Cabinet Member for Health. He wouldn’t be favourite to beat Jim Murphy, but he’d certainly have a chance"

I don't see how Findlay wouldn't be favourite to win all three groups. He'd surely win the trade union vote, the MSP's are going to want someone from the Scottish parliament to be leader (Tom Harris MP came a distant third to his two MSP opponents in the PLP vote in 2011) and his tact left would make him more favourable to members than Murphy.

A few points to that:

1) There may be more than 2 candidates standing
2) is Findlay well known amongst Scottish Labour members?
3) How left wing is the Scottish Labour membership now? if they have lost some leftwing members to the SNP/SSP then maybe the remaining members are more Blairite

Smarmeron

@MikeK
"Man" flu is not an illness....Just get on with things you soft sod.

JBriskin

Jenny Marra - Shadow minister for youth employment. She, too is young and inexperienced but has won praise for her parliamentary work and is well regarded, particularly in Dundee.

GIN1138

MikeK said:

I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the f*ckin' flu!

At least it'll be out of the way by Christmas.

A few years ago I started coming down with Flu the day before Christmas Eve and spent Christmas Day in bed. Was still ill for New Year.

Whole holiday was a write off!

MikeK

Smarmeron said:

@MikeK
"Man" flu is not an illness....Just get on with things you soft sod.

You ignorant lump of cods wallop! I have a very bad flu, developing into Pneumonia if not careful.

Scrapheap_as_was

MikeK said:

I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the flu!I have the f*ckin' flu!

Go and lie down and sleep it off. FLUKIP

Smarmeron

@MikeK
The country needs strivers, not skivers, go about your normal business like a good Tory should.
(It's about the only thing a Tory will willingly give away for free)

isam

Lorely Burt on Daily Politics

"There are almost as many British people in other parts of the EU as there are EU migrants working over in this country"

Isn't the rest of the EU combined a lot bigger than the UK though?

Scrapheap_as_was

this bloke shoving cammo - he didn't have a wonky jaw and an obsession with the tories, the tories, the tories did he?

MikeK

Smarmeron said:

@MikeK
The country needs strivers, not skivers, go about your normal business like a good Tory should.
(It's about the only thing a Tory will willingly give away for free)

Are you going to give an old codger like me some work? I won't take less that £20 per hour; and I'm only going so low 'cause I get free transport on the buses.

Scrapheap_as_was

Dan Hodges‏@DPJHodges·1 min1 minute ago Greenwich, London
If story that the guy was rushing to the gym is true, that's even worse. Didn't even try to get round security, but did.

I heard he's called Gareth and was running away from the park after a man called David approached him there again.

edmundintokyo

isam said:

Lorely Burt on Daily Politics

"There are almost as many British people in other parts of the EU as there are EU migrants working over in this country"

Isn't the rest of the EU combined a lot bigger than the UK though?

Yes but the UK is the same size as the UK.

Smarmeron

@MikeK
Typical of the older generation, feigning illness and demanding to much for the little use they are.
No wonder the stocks are taking a pounding!

AndyJS

Cameron has been shoved? Good, so he knows how the rest of us feel on the train every day.

OldKingCole

MikeK said:

Smarmeron said:

@MikeK
"Man" flu is not an illness....Just get on with things you soft sod.

You ignorant lump of cods wallop! I have a very bad flu, developing into Pneumonia if not careful.

If you can post about it, you haven't got it!

Anyway as a Kipper you were probably eligible for a flu-jab! Didn't you have it?

JBriskin

Smarmeron said:

No wonder the stocks are taking a pounding!

Arf - How are your graphs looking today Smarmy?

GIN1138

Smarmeron said:

@MikeK
"Man" flu is not an illness....Just get on with things you soft sod.

People that say they have "Flu" when really they just have a cold have never had proper Flu, IMO.

Real Influenza is an awful virus.

I don't think most people have it more than 4-5 times in a life-time thankfully. I've got to 37 and I've only had proper Flu twice.

Once in 1990 (was off school for two weeks, went back to school too early and it came back again with another two weeks off school)

And again over Christmas/New Year 2002. What I remember most about that Christmas Flu is how painful it was. Even my teeth and gums hurt.

Because I have Asthma I'm eligible for a Flu jab. Up until 2002 I never bothered but I've had it every year since. Not sure how much good it does, but if there's a chance it can help prevent that sort of pain I'm willing to have it LOL.

isam

edmundintokyo said:

isam said:

Lorely Burt on Daily Politics

"There are almost as many British people in other parts of the EU as there are EU migrants working over in this country"

Isn't the rest of the EU combined a lot bigger than the UK though?

Yes but the UK is the same size as the UK.

Actually the misrepresentation on her part was that a big chunk of the Brits in the EU are retirees, therefore not competing for jobs.. The jobs market was the context of the quote

Smarmeron

@JBriskin
I am thrilled to note that "Returned To Unit" Smith is getting his own TV special on Monday night.
I would post the link, but you get upset when I do.

"Jobcentre whistleblower tells Dispatches that computerised benefits scheme is ‘unworkable, poorly designed and out of date"

AlastairMeeks

Peter Kellner's analysis of the Greens and UKIP:

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/10/27/ukip-greens-and-new-politics-protest/

MikeK

OldKingCole said:

MikeK said:

Smarmeron said:

@MikeK
"Man" flu is not an illness....Just get on with things you soft sod.

You ignorant lump of cods wallop! I have a very bad flu, developing into Pneumonia if not careful.

If you can post about it, you haven't got it!

Anyway as a Kipper you were probably eligible for a flu-jab! Didn't you have it?

I don't believe in flu vaccine, as the vaccine is for last years variety/ies. But seriously, first time I'm up in 2 days. It's a rotten flu this year. You have been warned.

AlastairMeeks

Get well soon, MikeK.

JBriskin

Smarmeron said:

@JBriskin
I am thrilled to note that "Returned To Unit" Smith is getting his own TV special on Monday night.
I would post the link, but you get upset when I do.

"Jobcentre whistleblower tells Dispatches that computerised benefits scheme is ‘unworkable, poorly designed and out of date"

Ahhh, you see - without the link I can debate with you.

A - Is that specifically about Universal credit?

I think the main point about UC is monthly payments where people become responsible enough to pay their landlord direct. Something I thought you would agree with. Apart from the landlord part, obvs.