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  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited October 2014

    As such we no longer really even have control over our economy as dumbfounded Dave has just demonstrated.

    You Kippers seem to have lost all touch with reality. How in the name of heaven is a disputed membership fee even remotely 'not having control over our economy'?

    It's a haggle over a bill, that's all. And Dave ain't gonna pay it, but if UKIP succeed in their goal of putting Ed M into No 10, I expect he will.
    If you do not know how much money you are going to have to pay out as seemingly Dave and George didn't (or so they claim) then how can they effectively plan or control the economy. its the same concept as immigration. How can you plan the public sector if you do not know how many people it is there to serve?

    Its very simple Westminster and Whitehall are no longer in charge.
    You're mad, blinded by an obsession. We have lots of international obligations which we can't always exactly predict - the UN, IMF, NATO, WTO. That's life.

    In this particular case, there has been an unexpected, back-dated demand for an extra payment, which is being rejected. Such a demand might equally be demanded under the terms of the trade treaty which even UKIP admit (in their saner moments) we would have to sign up to with the EU. So by your reasoning Westminster and Whitehall would still not be in charge, under UKIP's proposal (such as it is) for Brexit.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @JBriskin
    Damn....you know that is a secret commie plot to destabilize Dundee....
    Drat, foiled again!
  • JBriskin said:

    JBriskin said:

    I must applaud our establishment parties and our government. They have outdone themselves this time. Only such morons could sign up to what is in effectively a National Turnover Tax so that whenever we grow as an economy the parasites in Brussels syphon more ill-gotten gains in a brazen act of daylight robbery. Its a disgrace.


    Keep pretending these payments are a tax - it only shows your ignorance. Payment to regional structiral funds are paid by countries not even in the EU. It is in our econoimic interest to see the poorer countries in Europe grow and be markets for our goods and services.
    The arguement is how the payments are calculated. The black economy for a start is purely hypothetical.
    Welly, welly, welly, well. Is it is in our economic interest to see the poorer countries in Asia and Africa grow and be markets for our goods and services?
    I wish I had Excel... :(

    Haven't you got Microsoft Office on your computer? (honest question!)
    I've got Word, Sunil, so it's not all bad...

    Better than nothing I suppose. Other people have mentioned OpenOffice which does the same thing as MS Office.
  • rullkorullko Posts: 161
    Sarwar isn't an MSP.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited October 2014
    Don;t listen to what the tory leadership says, look at what it does.

    1. Our payments to the EU will certainly increase

    2. We will opt in to an arrest warrant arrangement that deals a blow to rights that free Britons have enjoyed for centuries.
  • As such we no longer really even have control over our economy as dumbfounded Dave has just demonstrated.

    You Kippers seem to have lost all touch with reality. How in the name of heaven is a disputed membership fee even remotely 'not having control over our economy'?

    It's a haggle over a bill, that's all. And Dave ain't gonna pay it, but if UKIP succeed in their goal of putting Ed M into No 10, I expect he will.
    Think it's you that has lost all touch of reality if you really think 'Dave ain't gonna pay it'
    "I woke up. The pain and sickness all over me like an animal. Then I realized what it was. The music coming up from the floor was our old friend, Ludwig Van, and the dreaded Ninth Symphony."
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    <
    Reply to Andy

    Huge LD vote to squeeze. And Labour gained something like 8 seats at the locals (on a council they already control). The wider area (Hammersmith & Fulham, Brent etc) has been turning markedly red and that's not likely to change no matter how badly Ed continues to do.

    Thanks for the reply. Btw, there's an interesting discussion on UKPR if you haven't already seen it:

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/ealingcentralandacton/
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380

    JBriskin said:

    JBriskin said:

    I must applaud our establishment parties and our government. They have outdone themselves this time. Only such morons could sign up to what is in effectively a National Turnover Tax so that whenever we grow as an economy the parasites in Brussels syphon more ill-gotten gains in a brazen act of daylight robbery. Its a disgrace.


    Keep pretending these payments are a tax - it only shows your ignorance. Payment to regional structiral funds are paid by countries not even in the EU. It is in our econoimic interest to see the poorer countries in Europe grow and be markets for our goods and services.
    The arguement is how the payments are calculated. The black economy for a start is purely hypothetical.
    Welly, welly, welly, well. Is it is in our economic interest to see the poorer countries in Asia and Africa grow and be markets for our goods and services?
    I wish I had Excel... :(

    Haven't you got Microsoft Office on your computer? (honest question!)
    I've got Word, Sunil, so it's not all bad...

    Better than nothing I suppose. Other people have mentioned OpenOffice which does the same thing as MS Office.
    Serious Gisajob face.

    It's a lot better.

    I presume you know that OpenOffice is not Exactly the same as MS Office. I prefer MS to be honest - if only for CV purposes (which you put in your manbag to meet the recruitment consultant and then throw out - either the CV or the manbag)

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    There was no dog whistle. He used an entirely everyday word to say something was happening in great numbers. e.g. "I have been swamped with the new accounts recently", "I feel like I've been swamped with grandkids this weekend". What was pathetic was the climb down and apology when the PC police kicked off.

    I've also noted in the last couple of years that the PC police have started a couple of new fronts in trying to make people feel marginalised. Now, you're not only part of the great oppressed if you're female, black, brown, gay or bisexual, but now if you're fat you can be a victim of "thin privilege" or if you are covered in tattoos, employers are unjustly waging a war against "alternative people".
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited October 2014
    Plato said:

    For our anoraks

    RT @OED: Before it referred to long speeches to prevent the passage of laws, "filibuster" referred to 18th-century Caribbean pirates.

    Aaaaaarrrrrrrrgh me hearties! :)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Latest Rochester odds:

    UKIP 1.13
    Con 8.2
    Lab 50
    Oth 1000

    http://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/market?id=1.115707446
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    If someone finds out when the Chancelor and PM "discovered" this bill, it could leave Dave with no trousers.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Smarmeron said:

    If someone finds out when the Chancelor and PM "discovered" this bill, it could leave Dave with no trousers.

    Will Ed Miliband pay it?
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    rullko said:

    Sarwar isn't an MSP.

    Very good point.

    I'll let Morris do the introductions...

  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    Socrates said:

    There was no dog whistle. He used an entirely everyday word to say something was happening in great numbers. e.g. "I have been swamped with the new accounts recently", "I feel like I've been swamped with grandkids this weekend". What was pathetic was the climb down and apology when the PC police kicked off.

    I've also noted in the last couple of years that the PC police have started a couple of new fronts in trying to make people feel marginalised. Now, you're not only part of the great oppressed if you're female, black, brown, gay or bisexual, but now if you're fat you can be a victim of "thin privilege" or if you are covered in tattoos, employers are unjustly waging a war against "alternative people".
    PGA of America president Ted Bishop called Ian Poulter a "little girl" and was sacked for "insensitive gender-based statements"....
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/24/golf-pga-bishop-idUKL2N0SJ31F20141024
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Smarmeron said:

    If someone finds out when the Chancelor and PM "discovered" this bill, it could leave Dave with no trousers.

    Briskin and co - we don't know how we know this (it could even be from pb.com...) - but apparently the treasury got the bill in Jan...

  • HenryGMansonHenryGManson Posts: 149
    edited October 2014
    Alex Massie over at The Spector makes a clear Blairite case for Jim Murphy:

    'But anyone who thinks public service reform is necessary, moral and overdue in Scotland needs – whether we like it or not - a reinvigorated, renewed, intellectually confident Labour party. Someone needs to challenge the SNP’s shibboleths. It can’t just be left to the Tories. On health and education, the Blair government’s record in England was something you could defend (in some places much more than that); no defence can be made of what Scottish Labour did in Scotland.

    Murphy might help change that (and for as long as Miliband is around Murphy can certainly do more as a Blairite in Scotland than as a Blairite in England). He might also have some ideas for reviving Labour’s decayed local organisation and infrastructure. He has, after all, turned Eastwood from a safe Tory seat into one in which Murphy might as well run unopposed.'

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/10/jim-murphy-is-scottish-labours-only-hope/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Socrates, people sometimes like victimhood, as some run around seeking offence. It means you get to feel all special as you shoot down arguments not by reason but outrage.

    Not heard of this 'thin privilege' stuff before, but doesn't surprise me.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Afternoon all. I know Labour keeps Holyrood for its political pygmies but who the hell is Neil Findlay? Clearly the man isn't even a legend in his own living room. I have never heard of the man let alone have any idea he is an MSP. Johann frae Pollock was bad enough but at least people had heard of her. I am waiting for Ian Gray to step forward as saviour of SLAB. That way in 2016 it could win fewer seats than the Scottish LibDems.

    And only a list MSP - and therefore 2nd/3rd Xl in his own party's original rating (1st XI having been seen off in the constituency vote in 2011).

    Here's why I think there's a chance Jim Murphy may not for Scottish Labour leader. 1) He doesn't think Ed will win in May and that in less than a year's time there'll be a new Labour leader by which time the party 'will have come to its senses' and have elected someone of his political persuasion under whom he could prosper. 2) He thinks the party in Scotland will be deeply divided and struggle against Nicola Sturgeon in her honeymoon period - which may last until 2016. 3) He doesn't think the spoils are worth all the hassle.

    Very good: and by implication the new leader will only be a lower grade Labour person.


    Very good explanation about how the Scottish Labour leadership will be run and explains the electoral college. This is what gives Findlay a serious chance. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29784568

    I'd imagine that Murphy vs Findlay would come down to the membership, as I guess Murphy would win the MPs/MSPs and Findlay would win the trade union section, assuming that Miliband isn't both able and interested enough to expend political capital to get the unions to back Murphy.
    There are also the longer term ramifications of the Falkirk CLP affair. Not sure how that plays out for Mr M, good or bad, though.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Socrates
    I have not a clue if Ed would pay it or not. I am only pointing out that, a lot of highly paid accountants never noticed an incoming bill of 1.7 billion?
    If it was your accountant doing the equivalent to you, you might consider him to be a little incompetent?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Will Ed Miliband pay it?

    Ed is at least honest in his commitment to Europe and there being no need for a referendum. He is standing on that platform.

    You may not agree with him, but you have to admit he's honest about it.

  • As such we no longer really even have control over our economy as dumbfounded Dave has just demonstrated.

    You Kippers seem to have lost all touch with reality. How in the name of heaven is a disputed membership fee even remotely 'not having control over our economy'?

    It's a haggle over a bill, that's all. And Dave ain't gonna pay it, but if UKIP succeed in their goal of putting Ed M into No 10, I expect he will.
    If you do not know how much money you are going to have to pay out as seemingly Dave and George didn't (or so they claim) then how can they effectively plan or control the economy. its the same concept as immigration. How can you plan the public sector if you do not know how many people it is there to serve?

    Its very simple Westminster and Whitehall are no longer in charge.
    They don't know how much they are going to have to pay out for all sorts of things. For example, how many people will be out of work in a year's time? What about other benefits? There's much greater uncertainty there than there is about how much we'll have to pay to Europe, but somehow the country manages to continue in any case.
    They do seem to have a reasonable idea although granted with debt at £1.3 trillion and rising I do take your point. However that the government seems to have been so totally blind sided by this would suggest they have no control at all over it whereas I am sure they would argue that despite the difficulties they have control over the other issues to the greater extent.


  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Smarmeron said:

    @Socrates
    I have not a clue if Ed would pay it or not. I am only pointing out that, a lot of highly paid accountants never noticed an incoming bill of 1.7 billion?
    If it was your accountant doing the equivalent to you, you might consider him to be a little incompetent?

    Smarmy -

    You may have not been following Briskin and co's analysis this afternoon,

    In summary,

    Osborne's got this covered.


  • taffys said:

    Will Ed Miliband pay it?

    Ed is at least honest in his commitment to Europe and there being no need for a referendum. He is standing on that platform.

    You may not agree with him, but you have to admit he's honest about it.

    He's not honest about it all. He's trying to distract from the question by making a synthetic fuss about the date of the demand.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @JBriskin
    When was George informed? I heard he got fantastic maths grades.
  • JBriskin said:

    JBriskin said:

    JBriskin said:

    I must applaud our establishment parties and our government. They have outdone themselves this time. Only such morons could sign up to what is in effectively a National Turnover Tax so that whenever we grow as an economy the parasites in Brussels syphon more ill-gotten gains in a brazen act of daylight robbery. Its a disgrace.


    Keep pretending these payments are a tax - it only shows your ignorance. Payment to regional structiral funds are paid by countries not even in the EU. It is in our econoimic interest to see the poorer countries in Europe grow and be markets for our goods and services.
    The arguement is how the payments are calculated. The black economy for a start is purely hypothetical.
    Welly, welly, welly, well. Is it is in our economic interest to see the poorer countries in Asia and Africa grow and be markets for our goods and services?
    I wish I had Excel... :(

    Haven't you got Microsoft Office on your computer? (honest question!)
    I've got Word, Sunil, so it's not all bad...

    Better than nothing I suppose. Other people have mentioned OpenOffice which does the same thing as MS Office.
    Serious Gisajob face.

    It's a lot better.

    I presume you know that OpenOffice is not Exactly the same as MS Office. I prefer MS to be honest - if only for CV purposes (which you put in your manbag to meet the recruitment consultant and then throw out - either the CV or the manbag)

    I used OpenOffice on a Linux machine (non-Windows) a few years back. I noticed a few minor glitches with some files (eg. Powerpoint) opening them in proper Office, but nothing too serious.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380

    taffys said:

    Will Ed Miliband pay it?

    Ed is at least honest in his commitment to Europe and there being no need for a referendum. He is standing on that platform.

    You may not agree with him, but you have to admit he's honest about it.

    He's not honest about it all. He's trying to distract from the question by making a synthetic fuss about the date of the demand.
    We're not surely still giving such credence to Ed M's economics thinking are we??
  • @Richard_Nabavi

    " And Dave ain't gonna pay it..."

    Dear me, but that is to be very forthright, Mr. Nabavi. He certainly will not pay it by the 1st December 2014, but paid it will be. It would appear that the demand is within the rules therefore the UK will pay

    Of course he is going to pay it. He just obfuscating to push it beyond next May which in turn will likely cost us a considerable level of penalties and interest for late payment on top.
    I do find it so very amusing that the Tory supporters on here who keep telling us that there are all these benefits to EU membership are the same ones who are now saying that Dave should break the rules and not pay what the country owes.

    At least the UKIP position is consistent. AS long as we remain a member of the EU these things will keep happening because, contrary to what they seem to think, the EU is not run for the benefit of the UK. It is the same reason why Cameron will get no where with his renegotiations.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT For @tyson‌

    After our chat a few days ago about Arctic Monkey's track A Certain Romance. I now find it rather hard to listen to it without welling up too. Your perspective was quite an eye-opener.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    taffys said:

    Will Ed Miliband pay it?

    Ed is at least honest in his commitment to Europe and there being no need for a referendum. He is standing on that platform.

    You may not agree with him, but you have to admit he's honest about it.

    He's not honest about it all. He's trying to distract from the question by making a synthetic fuss about the date of the demand.
    It's not synthetic though. If the Government has known for quite some time, the natural conclusion is that the Government is using this for stirring up a frenzy.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Smarmeron said:

    @JBriskin
    When was George informed? I heard he got fantastic maths grades.

    Does it matter?

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Richard_Nabavi
    No one seen this coming well before? It was in the EU statutes?
    Either someone has been lax in their duty to work it out beforehand, or failed to pass on the memo?
    Doesn't this concern you?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    AndyJS said:

    <
    Reply to Andy

    Huge LD vote to squeeze. And Labour gained something like 8 seats at the locals (on a council they already control). The wider area (Hammersmith & Fulham, Brent etc) has been turning markedly red and that's not likely to change no matter how badly Ed continues to do.

    Thanks for the reply. Btw, there's an interesting discussion on UKPR if you haven't already seen it:

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/ealingcentralandacton/
    Thanks - yes, an interesting discussion. The observation that it is a very polite campaign is borne out by Angie Bray's campaign leaflet, which is all about govt achievements on jobs, NHS and the economy, without even one 'Don't let Labour wreck it', or any tendentious bar-charts. In fact, she doesn't mention her opponents at all.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Thanks to the Morning Star for Neil Findlay,the same source as George Galloway in Bradford.

    http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-5add-Labour-must-outflank-the-SNP-from-the-left#.VE6NXcFFDIV
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    antifrank said:

    taffys said:

    Will Ed Miliband pay it?

    Ed is at least honest in his commitment to Europe and there being no need for a referendum. He is standing on that platform.

    You may not agree with him, but you have to admit he's honest about it.

    He's not honest about it all. He's trying to distract from the question by making a synthetic fuss about the date of the demand.
    It's not synthetic though. If the Government has known for quite some time, the natural conclusion is that the Government is using this for stirring up a frenzy.
    Lol - was someone taping the Hoc in the afternoon on HD again?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    edited October 2014
    Artist said:

    It's not impossible that Murphy will decide not to stand now,. He must be looking at the third of the vote that the trade unions will get and think he'll really struggle against Findlay. Not to mention the MSP's all seemingly standing aside today to give Findlay a clear run. A Westminster versus Scottish parliament battle is the last thing Scottish Labour needs right now.

    And yet ... Nicola Sturgeon, and (to some) Gordon Brown, to name two examples of party leader changes, were obvious successors. Very highly ranked in their parties, plenty of experience of government. But Labour were sniping at Ms Sturgeon not being 'elected'.

    What would it say of Labour if they think someone who few people have heard of (relatively) is elected unopposed, deemed good enough, and what would the Scottish electorate think, when there are so many more impressive characters [edit: at least in the sense of established reputation]?

    Mr Findlay would certainly be a wild card in that sense as someone said - he might well do a good job, but it's a heck of a handicap, and with London Labour still I/C. I'm getting the sense of someone who's been volunteered to bell the SNP cat - it's a job nobody else wants and he might manage to do it but he might get eaten.

    One person who doesn't seem to have been considered, BTW: A. Darling MP.

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @JBriskin
    That our chancellor is aware of our finances? I would have thought that would be in the job title. Yes it matters...if only from a betting standpoint
  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    edited October 2014

    As such we no longer really even have control over our economy as dumbfounded Dave has just demonstrated.

    You Kippers seem to have lost all touch with reality. How in the name of heaven is a disputed membership fee even remotely 'not having control over our economy'?

    It's a haggle over a bill, that's all. And Dave ain't gonna pay it, but if UKIP succeed in their goal of putting Ed M into No 10, I expect he will.
    If you do not know how much money you are going to have to pay out as seemingly Dave and George didn't (or so they claim) then how can they effectively plan or control the economy. its the same concept as immigration. How can you plan the public sector if you do not know how many people it is there to serve?

    Its very simple Westminster and Whitehall are no longer in charge.
    You're mad, blinded by an obsession. We have lots of international obligations which we can't always exactly predict - the UN, IMF, NATO, WTO. That's life.

    In this particular case, there has been an unexpected, back-dated demand for an extra payment, which is being rejected. Such a demand might equally be demanded under the terms of the trade treaty which even UKIP admit (in their saner moments) we would have to sign up to with the EU. So by your reasoning Westminster and Whitehall would still not be in charge, under UKIP's proposal (such as it is) for Brexit.
    You sad pathetic sycophantic little doormat and in how many of those obligations have we agreed to a turnover tax? The only other one I can think of are the ridiculous Aid targets.

    I doubt very much that UKIP would sign up to an annual National domestic product tax (which is effectively what it is) with anyone (and I certainly would not support it). In all the agreements we had before our dalliance with Brussels can you name an agreement which demanded we pay such a tax on domestic product?

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    At the moment Findlay is said to be currently encouraging Gordon Brown to stand. If Brown continues to decline the offer then this puts Findlay in a very strong position. The Brown network in the Scottish Labour party will support pretty much anyone but Jim Murphy.

    Good , Findlay is a donkey of the first order, and will be a puppet as usual. He could not run a bath.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2014
    MikeL said:

    Can anyone explain the movement on Betfair over the last couple of weeks?

    The Con price (for both most seats and majority) has drifted significantly - yet Con is in a much better position than it was a couple of weeks ago.

    One can obviously argue about what chance they have but it is surely unarguable that they have a better chance than they had two weeks ago.

    The media is horrendous for providing superficial analysis yet lots of people lap it up and act as though they have been informed.

    UKIP in Clacton led to a feeding frenzy, but in the end it was just a by election.

    Normally, the main opposition starts taking seats off the government in the run up to a change of PM/government. Here, we have the third way pinching them, which is usually a sign that the government isn't going to change because the opposition have failed to convince.

    Labour should win Rochester if they are going to win in May 2015.



  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Tyndall, worth mentioning that some named as 'PB Tories' are not, and would like us to leave the EU.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Smarmeron said:

    @JBriskin
    That our chancellor is aware of our finances? I would have thought that would be in the job title. Yes it matters...if only from a betting standpoint

    Smarmy you've gone from accusing me of being an accountant to elsewhere.

    Let me assure you that Osborne should and would have been made aware of the bill at some point - from my employment experience.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    @Richard_Nabavi

    " And Dave ain't gonna pay it..."

    Dear me, but that is to be very forthright, Mr. Nabavi. He certainly will not pay it by the 1st December 2014, but paid it will be. It would appear that the demand is within the rules therefore the UK will pay

    Of course he is going to pay it. He just obfuscating to push it beyond next May which in turn will likely cost us a considerable level of penalties and interest for late payment on top.
    I do find it so very amusing that the Tory supporters on here who keep telling us that there are all these benefits to EU membership are the same ones who are now saying that Dave should break the rules and not pay what the country owes.

    At least the UKIP position is consistent. AS long as we remain a member of the EU these things will keep happening because, contrary to what they seem to think, the EU is not run for the benefit of the UK. It is the same reason why Cameron will get no where with his renegotiations.
    Is it? If there is negotistic to be made, and say, £300m to be saved, why should UKIP not what that? Farage has said quite clearly he would pay because he "would have to". Yet surely the more coherent position is to limit the UKs contribution as much as possible pending withdrawal.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Funny thing, this wouldn't have happened if we hadn't decided to recalculate our GDP.
    Those responsible should pay!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    DavidL said:

    It is very likely that the Unions and west coast mafia (in conjunction with Gordon Brown) will determine the outcome of this but from those I heard and spoke to in the referendum campaign Jenny Marra, a regional list MSP from Dundee, really stood out. She dealt well with the media, she was an extremely active campaigner (unlike so many who earn their living from positions to which they were appointed/elected by Labour) and she is moderate enough to broaden the support that SLAB need to get.

    The last point will probably be fatal to her in this race to the left but sanity has a certain attraction, even in Scotland.

    David, Marra is as crap as the rest of them , a whining no user.
  • antifrank said:

    It's not synthetic though. If the Government has known for quite some time, the natural conclusion is that the Government is using this for stirring up a frenzy.

    I expect they have had some indications, but the actual specific demand for an explicit sum seems to be very recent.

    It won't be paid, unless PM Miliband decides to pay it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    Not all decisions made by Labour in the last few years have been good ones but choosing Neil Findlay as Labour leader in Scotland seven months before a General election would be a political misjudgement not seen since John Major chose Norman Lamont as chancellor

    Move on nothing to see......
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Smarmeron said:

    Funny thing, this wouldn't have happened if we hadn't decided to recalculate our GDP.
    Those responsible should pay!

    That's what Ed M said...

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @JBriskin
    He might have informed Dave earlier? Was the battery in his Casio flat?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    It's not synthetic though. If the Government has known for quite some time, the natural conclusion is that the Government is using this for stirring up a frenzy.

    I expect they have had some indications, but the actual specific demand for an explicit sum seems to be very recent.

    It won't be paid, unless PM Miliband decides to pay it.
    We're clearly gearing up for a British Sausage campaign. It's not very edifying, but we're in the run-up to a general election, I suppose.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Smarmeron said:

    @JBriskin
    He might have informed Dave earlier? Was the battery in his Casio flat?

    Lol - Casio's not so bad now eh Smarmy.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    I simply can't resist pointing out that one of the problems that Lamont had with Ed was his refusal to condemn the bedroom tax for over a year.

    In the heading the quote from Findlay points out that there are 180,000 families stuck on waiting lists in Scotland while tens of thousands of public sector houses have under occupancy. Just maybe Ed had a reason to hesitate?

    From a Tory point of view Labour and the SNP having a competition as to who can be the most left wing must surely open up opportunities. That said tories will have to pay the consequences and bills of the socialist republic of Scotland whoever wins between these two.

    The problem is whether there are any smaller houses at all to downgrade to. Mr Findlay's quote does not consider this issue. IIRC Labour built about 6 (six) council houses during their last term of government in Scotland, which I suppose proves his point in a way he might not like ...

    However, more generally, Mr F has a huge advantage - to any rational being, that is - in that he is not a Westminster MP. To have SLAB - or what pretends to be SLAB - controlled by MPs as both leader and dep leader (as Mr Sarwar already is) would only reinforce the problems they have been having, and give the SNP a huge own goal given that about 35% of Labour voters voted Yes.

    I am also extremely sceptical that anyone would seriously want the position of leader, with the prospects of the 2015 and 2016 elections, and no obvious reform of the relationship with London GHQ. If I were Kezia Dugdale I'd think I was young enough to be better to wait for the contest after the - presumed - defeat in those elections and the ejection of another leader.

    There is also some very interesting stuff in the reportage in the Herald today, though some of it is just about the "he did! No, she did!" acrimony that has erupted. and an interesting piece by Lesley Riddoch:

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/lesley-riddoch-labour-s-great-divide-is-laid-bare-1-3584509
    Carnyx, Findlay is stupid enough to think it is a good job, what a laugh FM's Questions will be with him as lead donkey for Labour. How can they find so many nonentities for leaders.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Congrats to Pulpstar for a convincing solo win at PB Diplomacy 4.

    A triumph of the blues after the yellows were squeezed while the reds and purples turned on each other. Who would have thought?
  • I doubt very much that UKIP would sign up to an annual National domestic product tax (which is effectively what it is) with anyone

    Well, that might be what they propose, since they've mentioned Norway as a possible model, but who knows? I've been asking our Kipper friends for four years about what trade agreement with the EU they think could be available, but no-one in UKIP seems to know, or indeed have the slightest interest in this rather fundamental question.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Richard_Nabavi
    "I expect they have had some indications"
    For the money they get paid, you would expect them to have it pretty much spot on?
    They had access to the data and rules, or was it an EU secret?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    Why am I not surprised David Cameron is boasting about welshing on his debt to the EU? Being an Old Etonian seventh cousin of the Queen doesn't automatically mean you have class.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    It's not synthetic though. If the Government has known for quite some time, the natural conclusion is that the Government is using this for stirring up a frenzy.

    I expect they have had some indications, but the actual specific demand for an explicit sum seems to be very recent.

    It won't be paid, unless PM Miliband decides to pay it.
    We're clearly gearing up for a British Sausage campaign. It's not very edifying, but we're in the run-up to a general election, I suppose.
    The concerning thing is what have dave and george had to concede to get a "victory" ?
  • Grandiose said:

    @Richard_Nabavi

    " And Dave ain't gonna pay it..."

    Dear me, but that is to be very forthright, Mr. Nabavi. He certainly will not pay it by the 1st December 2014, but paid it will be. It would appear that the demand is within the rules therefore the UK will pay

    Of course he is going to pay it. He just obfuscating to push it beyond next May which in turn will likely cost us a considerable level of penalties and interest for late payment on top.
    I do find it so very amusing that the Tory supporters on here who keep telling us that there are all these benefits to EU membership are the same ones who are now saying that Dave should break the rules and not pay what the country owes.

    At least the UKIP position is consistent. AS long as we remain a member of the EU these things will keep happening because, contrary to what they seem to think, the EU is not run for the benefit of the UK. It is the same reason why Cameron will get no where with his renegotiations.
    Is it? If there is negotistic to be made, and say, £300m to be saved, why should UKIP not what that? Farage has said quite clearly he would pay because he "would have to". Yet surely the more coherent position is to limit the UKs contribution as much as possible pending withdrawal.
    Do you have a link that shows Farage explicitly saying if there were a UKIP government that had already indicated it was leaving the EU that it would pay the full amount?
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    antifrank said:

    antifrank said:

    It's not synthetic though. If the Government has known for quite some time, the natural conclusion is that the Government is using this for stirring up a frenzy.

    I expect they have had some indications, but the actual specific demand for an explicit sum seems to be very recent.

    It won't be paid, unless PM Miliband decides to pay it.
    We're clearly gearing up for a British Sausage campaign. It's not very edifying, but we're in the run-up to a general election, I suppose.
    2nd Yes Prime Minister reference of the day.

    And I didn't even need my Casio...
  • antifrank said:


    We're clearly gearing up for a British Sausage campaign. It's not very edifying, but we're in the run-up to a general election, I suppose.

    Since the sausages have conveniently be brought into play by the EU itself, it would be churlish of Cameron not to respond.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    JBriskin said:

    Anas Sarwar - Acting leader of the Scottish Labour party. young and talented, but he may not be quick enough to cope with Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon.

    Kezia Dugdale - Shadow education minister. At 33, she has been an MSP for three years. Capable, but she is inexperienced and would probably prefer to go for the deputy leadership.

    Neil Findlay - Shadow health minister. Tough and talented and being from the left of the party he would have the union's backing. But he may be too left-wing for fellow MSPs.

    5 absolute donkeys Brisket , you wasted a minute of your life there
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I've a cornucopia of technology arriving this week - Sony X3c, then wi-fi Panasonic TV, Humax DVR and new BBand router - if they can all talk to my Acer laptop cum media drive, I'll be delighted.

    I'm about to copy my DVDs to another external drive > this looks like the best SWare = Aimersoft DVD Ripper. It's a right pain in the arse having loads of .AVI files that work fine with DivX, but the DVD VTS/VOB will only play
    from original DVD on Windows Media Player.

    Maybe @MaxPB‌ knows how to do this? I've no idea - this is way beyond my Google-Fu/download expertise.

    JBriskin said:

    JBriskin said:

    JBriskin said:

    I must applaud our establishment parties and our government. They have outdone themselves this time. Only such morons could sign up to what is in effectively a National Turnover Tax so that whenever we grow as an economy the parasites in Brussels syphon more ill-gotten gains in a brazen act of daylight robbery. Its a disgrace.


    Keep pretending these payments are a tax - it only shows your ignorance. Payment to regional structiral funds are paid by countries not even in the EU. It is in our econoimic interest to see the poorer countries in Europe grow and be markets for our goods and services.
    The arguement is how the payments are calculated. The black economy for a start is purely hypothetical.
    Welly, welly, welly, well. Is it is in our economic interest to see the poorer countries in Asia and Africa grow and be markets for our goods and services?
    I wish I had Excel... :(

    Haven't you got Microsoft Office on your computer? (honest question!)
    I've got Word, Sunil, so it's not all bad...

    Better than nothing I suppose. Other people have mentioned OpenOffice which does the same thing as MS Office.
    Serious Gisajob face.

    It's a lot better.

    I presume you know that OpenOffice is not Exactly the same as MS Office. I prefer MS to be honest - if only for CV purposes (which you put in your manbag to meet the recruitment consultant and then throw out - either the CV or the manbag)

    I used OpenOffice on a Linux machine (non-Windows) a few years back. I noticed a few minor glitches with some files (eg. Powerpoint) opening them in proper Office, but nothing too serious.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Roger
    It's a Bullingdon tradition. Order a huge meal, then whine about it, make a complete fuss, then walk out without paying.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    malcolmg said:

    JBriskin said:

    Anas Sarwar - Acting leader of the Scottish Labour party. young and talented, but he may not be quick enough to cope with Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon.

    Kezia Dugdale - Shadow education minister. At 33, she has been an MSP for three years. Capable, but she is inexperienced and would probably prefer to go for the deputy leadership.

    Neil Findlay - Shadow health minister. Tough and talented and being from the left of the party he would have the union's backing. But he may be too left-wing for fellow MSPs.

    5 absolute donkeys Brisket , you wasted a minute of your life there
    It was more than a minute. I would be very interested in the words per minute though...

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    JBriskin said:

    Jenny Marra - Shadow minister for youth employment. She, too is young and inexperienced but has won praise for her parliamentary work and is well regarded, particularly in Dundee.

    where are you getting this absolute bollocks from Brisket, Hans Christian Anderson could have made that up.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Carnyx said:

    This article has a reminder near the bottom of how the Scottish Labour leadership result came about last time through the electoral college that will be used again this time. Suffice to say this blog is not exactly enthusiastic about a Jim Murphy leadership.

    http://www.leftfutures.org/2014/10/murphy-as-leader-would-destroy-scottish-labour-only-one-from-the-left-can-save-it/

    Thanks for posting that. Very interesting in its perspective from the Scottish Labour left.

    Ha Ha Ha , Labour Left is Tory
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Roger said:

    Not all decisions made by Labour in the last few years have been good ones but choosing Neil Findlay as Labour leader in Scotland seven months before a General election would be a political misjudgement not seen since John Major chose Norman Lamont as chancellor

    Move on nothing to see......

    Correct , he does not even make lightweight
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Smarmeron said:

    @Roger
    It's a Bullingdon tradition. Order a huge meal, then whine about it, make a complete fuss, then walk out without paying.

    I thought the Bullingdon Club got drunk, wrecked the place, were rude to the staff but always coughed up the bill.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT - I'm a fan of liver, how much can one eat before getting ODed?

    Congrats to Pulpstar for a convincing solo win at PB Diplomacy 4.

    A triumph of the blues after the yellows were squeezed while the reds and purples turned on each other. Who would have thought?

  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    malcolmg said:

    JBriskin said:

    Jenny Marra - Shadow minister for youth employment. She, too is young and inexperienced but has won praise for her parliamentary work and is well regarded, particularly in Dundee.

    where are you getting this absolute bollocks from Brisket, Hans Christian Anderson could have made that up.
    It's direct (admittedly via me touch-typing) from the Times.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @foxinsox.
    Yes, in the end up Cameron will pay, He might tell you he won't, and you might not see the money change hands.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Hard to believe the stampede we have seen NOT to be Scottish Labour regional puppet. I wonder when any of the plethora of talent that is Labour will come forward and actually put their hat in the ring. Maybe they will try to copy the SNP and have only one person contest it to show how united they all are.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    edited October 2014
    Well, seeing how crap European partners have been on Typhoon, I hope this flutter in the dove cote brings an end to any Taranis based project sharing.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    Carnyx said:



    Afternoon all. I know Labour keeps Holyrood for its political pygmies but who the hell is Neil Findlay? Clearly the man isn't even a legend in his own living room. I have never heard of the man let alone have any idea he is an MSP. Johann frae Pollock was bad enough but at least people had heard of her. I am waiting for Ian Gray to step forward as saviour of SLAB. That way in 2016 it could win fewer seats than the Scottish LibDems.

    And only a list MSP - and therefore 2nd/3rd Xl in his own party's original rating (1st XI having been seen off in the constituency vote in 2011).
    3rd XI. The 1st XI (metaphorically), is at Westminster as was painfully obvious during the referendum. The 2nd XI missed out, as you say, in the constituencies. What's left is Labour's third tier.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    JBriskin said:

    malcolmg said:

    JBriskin said:

    Jenny Marra - Shadow minister for youth employment. She, too is young and inexperienced but has won praise for her parliamentary work and is well regarded, particularly in Dundee.

    where are you getting this absolute bollocks from Brisket, Hans Christian Anderson could have made that up.
    It's direct (admittedly via me touch-typing) from the Times.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/
    I should have known it was linked to the Daily Retard that well known Labour rag. Fantasists.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Plato said:

    OT - I'm a fan of liver, how much can one eat before getting ODed?

    Congrats to Pulpstar for a convincing solo win at PB Diplomacy 4.

    A triumph of the blues after the yellows were squeezed while the reds and purples turned on each other. Who would have thought?

    No idea!

    Polar bear liver contains toxic levels of Vitamin A, but in most supermarkets the liver is Lambs. I suspect the LD50 is far beyond human consumption.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    malcolmg said:

    JBriskin said:

    malcolmg said:

    JBriskin said:

    Jenny Marra - Shadow minister for youth employment. She, too is young and inexperienced but has won praise for her parliamentary work and is well regarded, particularly in Dundee.

    where are you getting this absolute bollocks from Brisket, Hans Christian Anderson could have made that up.
    It's direct (admittedly via me touch-typing) from the Times.

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/
    I should have known it was linked to the Daily Retard that well known Labour rag. Fantasists.
    Lol - I think we call it the paper of record here...

    Blame Smarmy

  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    If it is Welsh lamb's liver, probably a bit radio active still...
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    PAW said:

    If it is Welsh lamb's liver, probably a bit radio active still...

    Oh my,

    Hello PAW,

    How are you doing today?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Plato said:

    I've a cornucopia of technology arriving this week - Sony X3c, then wi-fi Panasonic TV, Humax DVR and new BBand router - if they can all talk to my Acer laptop cum media drive, I'll be delighted.

    I'm about to copy my DVDs to another external drive > this looks like the best SWare = Aimersoft DVD Ripper. It's a right pain in the arse having loads of .AVI files that work fine with DivX, but the DVD VTS/VOB will only play
    from original DVD on Windows Media Player.

    Maybe @MaxPB‌ knows how to do this? I've no idea - this is way beyond my Google-Fu/download expertise.

    JBriskin said:

    JBriskin said:

    JBriskin said:

    I must applaud our establishment parties and our government. They have outdone themselves this time. Only such morons could sign up to what is in effectively a National Turnover Tax so that whenever we grow as an economy the parasites in Brussels syphon more ill-gotten gains in a brazen act of daylight robbery. Its a disgrace.


    Keep pretending these payments are a tax - it only shows your ignorance. Payment to regional structiral funds are paid by countries not even in the EU. It is in our econoimic interest to see the poorer countries in Europe grow and be markets for our goods and services.
    The arguement is how the payments are calculated. The black economy for a start is purely hypothetical.
    Welly, welly, welly, well. Is it is in our economic interest to see the poorer countries in Asia and Africa grow and be markets for our goods and services?
    I wish I had Excel... :(

    Haven't you got Microsoft Office on your computer? (honest question!)
    I've got Word, Sunil, so it's not all bad...

    Better than nothing I suppose. Other people have mentioned OpenOffice which does the same thing as MS Office.
    Serious Gisajob face.

    It's a lot better.

    I presume you know that OpenOffice is not Exactly the same as MS Office. I prefer MS to be honest - if only for CV purposes (which you put in your manbag to meet the recruitment consultant and then throw out - either the CV or the manbag)

    I used OpenOffice on a Linux machine (non-Windows) a few years back. I noticed a few minor glitches with some files (eg. Powerpoint) opening them in proper Office, but nothing too serious.
    I'm still using VHS. Just prefer it to DVD.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    JBriskin - not so bad, I have a little work to do but I almost think I will take the evening off...
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    PAW said:

    JBriskin - not so bad, I have a little work to do but I almost think I will take the evening off...

    Does it involve Excel or Word (serious question) ?

  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    edited October 2014

    I doubt very much that UKIP would sign up to an annual National domestic product tax (which is effectively what it is) with anyone

    Well, that might be what they propose, since they've mentioned Norway as a possible model, but who knows? I've been asking our Kipper friends for four years about what trade agreement with the EU they think could be available, but no-one in UKIP seems to know, or indeed have the slightest interest in this rather fundamental question.
    Well perhaps you should be more focused on the details of Dave's renegotiation as if it ever happens it will happen sooner than any post withdrawal trade agreement. Frankly it is very difficult and rather pointless to specify what an agreement might entail given that Lisbon is not yet fully implemented (QMV doesn't come fully into being until next month) and both the unspecified changes that the UK government wants and the as yet unspecified further integration of the EU and Eurozone are not known. If the Tory Government cannot specify what it wants now, why on earth do you expect UKIP to outline an agreement that with the best will in the world would not be relevant for years ahead?

    With so much else is in flux it would be rather irresponsible for UKIP to start hypothesising about some theoretical future agreement so far ahead. Furthermore we would not want such hypotheticals to interfere with or confuse the far more imminent negotiations that the Tories envisage.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    I doubt very much that UKIP would sign up to an annual National domestic product tax (which is effectively what it is) with anyone

    Well, that might be what they propose, since they've mentioned Norway as a possible model, but who knows? I've been asking our Kipper friends for four years about what trade agreement with the EU they think could be available, but no-one in UKIP seems to know, or indeed have the slightest interest in this rather fundamental question.
    Can you quote when they've mentioned Norway as a possible model? The only thing I've ever heard them say is that Norway is evidence that free trade and EU membership are not synonymous.
  • As such we no longer really even have control over our economy as dumbfounded Dave has just demonstrated.

    You Kippers seem to have lost all touch with reality. How in the name of heaven is a disputed membership fee even remotely 'not having control over our economy'?

    It's a haggle over a bill, that's all. And Dave ain't gonna pay it, but if UKIP succeed in their goal of putting Ed M into No 10, I expect he will.
    If you do not know how much money you are going to have to pay out as seemingly Dave and George didn't (or so they claim) then how can they effectively plan or control the economy. its the same concept as immigration. How can you plan the public sector if you do not know how many people it is there to serve?

    Its very simple Westminster and Whitehall are no longer in charge.
    You're mad, blinded by an obsession. We have lots of international obligations which we can't always exactly predict - the UN, IMF, NATO, WTO. That's life.

    In this particular case, there has been an unexpected, back-dated demand for an extra payment, which is being rejected. Such a demand might equally be demanded under the terms of the trade treaty which even UKIP admit (in their saner moments) we would have to sign up to with the EU. So by your reasoning Westminster and Whitehall would still not be in charge, under UKIP's proposal (such as it is) for Brexit.
    It was not unexpected. The UK was warned it would have to pay extra under the new rules back in January. The Dutch Government knew about it and set aside a reserve fund to pay it. The claims from the UK Government are about as convincing as a schoolkid claiming the dog ate their homework.
  • PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    JBriskin - no, it is mostly odd ball ASP.NET web services with JQuery. For example a Prince2 primer with the visual qualities of a text book, but actually capable of putting through real work, to be part of a project management blog - not much money in it though.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    PAW said:

    JBriskin - no, it is mostly odd ball ASP.NET web services with JQuery. For example a Prince2 primer with the visual qualities of a text book, but actually capable of putting through real work, to be part of a project management blog - not much money in it though.

    Sounds Kosher.

    Please don't mess with me again.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    I doubt very much that UKIP would sign up to an annual National domestic product tax (which is effectively what it is) with anyone

    Well, that might be what they propose, since they've mentioned Norway as a possible model, but who knows? I've been asking our Kipper friends for four years about what trade agreement with the EU they think could be available, but no-one in UKIP seems to know, or indeed have the slightest interest in this rather fundamental question.
    Except every time you raise this question I point to the Mexico, Korea and Canada FTAs as examples. You only hear what you want to hear.
  • Socrates said:

    I doubt very much that UKIP would sign up to an annual National domestic product tax (which is effectively what it is) with anyone

    Well, that might be what they propose, since they've mentioned Norway as a possible model, but who knows? I've been asking our Kipper friends for four years about what trade agreement with the EU they think could be available, but no-one in UKIP seems to know, or indeed have the slightest interest in this rather fundamental question.
    Can you quote when they've mentioned Norway as a possible model? The only thing I've ever heard them say is that Norway is evidence that free trade and EU membership are not synonymous.
    Moer to the point I have regularly set out the various options when asked this question by Richard and others and have also indicated what the UKIP position is and what my preferred position is - making clear that mine and UKIPs position are not the same.

    Other UKIP members on here have done the same.

    So the claim that no one on here has answered Richard's questions is another of his many "statements of dubious reliability"
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Richard_Tyndall

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29794227

    This guy reckons someone should have told him, watch for the bit where he is searching for a diplomatic way of saying "Of course he would have known"
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Smarmeron said:

    @Richard_Tyndall

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29794227

    This guy reckons someone should have told him, watch for the bit where he is searching for a diplomatic way of saying "Of course he would have known"

    Lol - we're nae Paxo grade yet Smarmy

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Smarmeron said:

    @Socrates
    I have not a clue if Ed would pay it or not. I am only pointing out that, a lot of highly paid accountants never noticed an incoming bill of 1.7 billion?
    If it was your accountant doing the equivalent to you, you might consider him to be a little incompetent?

    As long as we don't hand it over, I don't care. Cameron is, for the time-being, being strong on this. We need to know Ed Miliband's position. We already know he wants to keep the flood gates open on immigration, and wants Brussels to keep all the power it currently has over the UK. But will he hand over more money too? Will it be surrender on all three fronts from Miliband the lesser?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    I doubt very much that UKIP would sign up to an annual National domestic product tax (which is effectively what it is) with anyone

    Well, that might be what they propose, since they've mentioned Norway as a possible model, but who knows? I've been asking our Kipper friends for four years about what trade agreement with the EU they think could be available, but no-one in UKIP seems to know, or indeed have the slightest interest in this rather fundamental question.
    Can you quote when they've mentioned Norway as a possible model? The only thing I've ever heard them say is that Norway is evidence that free trade and EU membership are not synonymous.
    Moer to the point I have regularly set out the various options when asked this question by Richard and others and have also indicated what the UKIP position is and what my preferred position is - making clear that mine and UKIPs position are not the same.

    Other UKIP members on here have done the same.

    So the claim that no one on here has answered Richard's questions is another of his many "statements of dubious reliability"
    Yes. It's reminiscent of his claims about there being proper scrutiny of the NSA - a point thoroughly destroyed by Edmund's link showing the overseer was a complete numpty earlier today.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Socrates
    Cameron is posturing.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Smarmeron said:

    @Socrates
    Cameron is posturing.

    Better.

    Socrates probably already knows this in his mind somewhere though.

    New Thread Please

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Smarmeron said:

    @Socrates
    Cameron is posturing.

    If he backs down, I'll be the first to castigate him for it. But right now he's making a stand. Ed Miliband seems to support the position of giving the EU whatever it wants. He clearly regards his boss as Jean-Claude Juncker, not the British people.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Socrates
    What legal basis does he have to dispute the figures? It was his treasury that signed it off?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    It was not unexpected. The UK was warned it would have to pay extra under the new rules back in January. The Dutch Government knew about it and set aside a reserve fund to pay it. The claims from the UK Government are about as convincing as a schoolkid claiming the dog ate their homework.

    So they are choosing to pick a political fight over it.

    Something they can probably drag out all the way until May 2015 if they choose?




  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited October 2014
    Ed Miliband's platform:

    - Ongoing powers for Brussels over the UK
    - Continued mass immigration
    - "Positive" discrimination against whites
    - An extra £1.7 billion handed over to the EU, no questions asked
    - No parliament for the English

    That could go on every UKIP leaflet in the north of England. It's almost like he agrees with his Dad:

    "The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world . . . you sometimes want them almost to lose (the war) to show them how things are."
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Smarmeron said:

    @Socrates
    What legal basis does he have to dispute the figures? It was his treasury that signed it off?

    Lol - Cammo ain't paying it Smarmy!!!

This discussion has been closed.