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  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited September 2014



    Why does the government want to tell people to work weekends?

    Because they pay them, on our behalf.

    What's the problem Bob, you're not a doctor.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    At least the Conservatives actually have a position.

    I doubt even if ed's mansion tax would make it through the commons, so ardent is the opposition amongst his senior colleagues.

  • taffys said:

    Daft policy.

    Well there is this....

    Whoever runs the severn bridge toll will make a fortune as hoards more Welsh people head over the border to escape labour's health catastrophe in Wales.

    Isn;t devolution wonderful?

    You only have to pay the toll to cross the Severn bridge into Wales.

    If the Welsh choose to return from England via the M50/A40 they won't have to pay the toll.
  • The politics from this is that the Government are promising sweeties to the public in the form of better GP services, which is inconsistent with what should be their primary message of needing to eliminate the deficit and then start repaying the huge quantity of debt we have accumulated..

    Wrong. It's primarily about easing the pressure on A&E from a whole bunch of people who shouldn't be there, but who have no choice at the moment.
  • If people fall sick on a Sunday, they can see the doc on Monday.

    If it's an emergency they can go to hospital.

    Why does the government want to tell people to work weekends?

    The concept of a weekend as you want to imagine it is long gone.

    Whether or not that is a good or a bad thing, it is the reality of life in Britain as it is lived by many, many, many people.
  • If people fall sick on a Sunday, they can see the doc on Monday.

    If it's an emergency they can go to hospital.

    Why does the government want to tell people to work weekends?

    I thought we had a massive top-down NHS re-organization so that clinicians, in particular GPs, could run the service and commission resources as they saw fit. Or did I miss something?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Why does the government want to tell people to work weekends?

    Default labour reaction: side with the provider and not the consumer.
  • Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

  • hucks67 said:

    Is there any interest in the Tory conference or only the news of any more defections ? Osborne may be proved to be extremely unwise to atack the working poor, as some of these will have voted Tory in 2010.

    Fair enough.

    Who are Labour going to 'attack' (as you call it) instead?

    At least the Conservatives actually have a position.

    From Labour? Nothing. Nada. Not a sausage. And yet they expect to be in government in a few months' time.
    Tories claim they have tested the 'Welfare' freeze to destruction in focus groups and it is highly popular. The jury is out...
  • The politics from this is that the Government are promising sweeties to the public in the form of better GP services, which is inconsistent with what should be their primary message of needing to eliminate the deficit and then start repaying the huge quantity of debt we have accumulated..

    Wrong. It's primarily about easing the pressure on A&E from a whole bunch of people who shouldn't be there, but who have no choice at the moment.
    No. That might be the underlying technocratic reason for the change, but the "politics" in this context is about how things look and are presented.
  • Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621



    Why does the government want to tell people to work weekends?

    Because they pay them, on our behalf.

    What's the problem Bob, you're not a doctor.
    Problem might be that its a popular policy that addresses a real need and it was suggested by a baby-eater.

    Tediously partisan.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    I think Lord A is doing a poll in H&M.... Gord bless you sir.

    Labour have let it be known that they are very worried about next week’s Heywood and Middleton by-election. But Nigel Farage says the seat is probably “too big a mountain to climb” for UKIP. Are they both bluffing? If only someone would do a poll and find out what is really going on…

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/09/69578.html

    What are the bookies saying ? They usually know.
  • Voxpop in Clacton town centre could not find anyone intending to vote Conservative at the by-election.

    http://order-order.com/2014/09/29/guy-news-clacton-special-report/
  • Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited September 2014
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Smarmeron said:

    "The reason is simple - as one GP put it to me recently. "Longer opening is a fine idea, but the problem is that the people who see us the most - young children and the elderly - are the ones that don't have a problem with appointments on a Monday afternoon."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29424713

    That's where the profit is, they aren't in the slightest bit interested in reasonably healthy working adults.
    Suck it up and work for a living like the rest of us, Doctors.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ed Milband upstaged by a brick...
  • taffys said:

    Daft policy.

    Well there is this....

    Whoever runs the severn bridge toll will make a fortune as hoards more Welsh people head over the border to escape labour's health catastrophe in Wales.

    Isn;t devolution wonderful?

    You only have to pay the toll to cross the Severn bridge into Wales.

    If the Welsh choose to return from England via the M50/A40 they won't have to pay the toll.
    Is it me or is there something astounding about the idea that getting into England is free whereas getting into Wales costs money?

    Can any of our Scotch nats explain this or has every cowardly losery bugger among them buggered off in a cowardly fashion?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Smarmeron said:

    "The reason is simple - as one GP put it to me recently. "Longer opening is a fine idea, but the problem is that the people who see us the most - young children and the elderly - are the ones that don't have a problem with appointments on a Monday afternoon."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29424713

    A classic example of how someone can be very bright and not have any common sense. The people that come to see him most during his workday opening hours are the ones that are most able to come during workday opening hours? You don't say!


  • Why does the government want to tell people to work weekends?

    Because they pay them, on our behalf.

    What's the problem Bob, you're not a doctor.

    And what about all the other people who work in surgeries and will have to be paid for their time, not to mention the additional running costs of actually opening a surgery at the weekend? It is certainly a good headline, but it may not actually be a very sensible policy. We'll have to see the detail.
  • Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    Hoovering up things?
  • Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    surbiton said:

    I think Lord A is doing a poll in H&M.... Gord bless you sir.

    Labour have let it be known that they are very worried about next week’s Heywood and Middleton by-election. But Nigel Farage says the seat is probably “too big a mountain to climb” for UKIP. Are they both bluffing? If only someone would do a poll and find out what is really going on…

    http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/09/69578.html

    What are the bookies saying ? They usually know.
    Relatively easy Labour win according to Betfair
  • Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    If you look at the retail sector, you will see that hours were generally not increased - just redistributed.

    The same will happen here. The workload will be differently distributed.

    Yes, there will be extra costs - but there will be savings from avoiding unnecessary trips to A&E and similar emergency services.

    The aim appears to be to bring this in over a 5 year period which is adequate time for the necessary changes to be implemented.
  • Dick defects according to the Indy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited September 2014
    Boris: Tories new fisheries policy, chuck Salmond overboard and eat Kippers for breakfast.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @dyedwoolie
    Cameron to smash the "doctors union"?
    I will get the popcorn, you fetch the ales?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    BoJo: New fisheries policy; throw Salmond overboard and eat the Kippers for breakfast
  • Oxford

    You decry the end of the weekend and decide to tackle this issue by... Making more people work weekends. Great stuff. Great for family life. Great for childcare. Just all round brilliant. Well done.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    I don't think their lives are as disappointing as the poor Africans spending their meagre incomes on a smoking addiction after his role lobbying for Big Tobacco.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Smarmeron said:

    @dyedwoolie
    Cameron to smash the "doctors union"?
    I will get the popcorn, you fetch the ales?

    Could be a doozie of a dust up
  • Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
  • Did Boris just say the word "wang"
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Did Boris just say the word "wang"

    He did, with reference to Soho
  • Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    bit of a mistake, Its one thing to be rude about UKIP politicians (and even that can seem 'bad form' sometimes ) its another to be rude about UKIP voters especially as many of them are ex tory ones
  • Scott_P said:

    Did Boris just say the word "wang"

    He did, with reference to Soho
    Oh my
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited September 2014

    Oxford

    You decry the end of the weekend and decide to tackle this issue by... Making more people work weekends. Great stuff. Great for family life. Great for childcare. Just all round brilliant. Well done.

    You're making an awful lot of unnecessary noise about this. Perhaps you should declare an interest.
  • taffys said:

    Daft policy.

    Well there is this....

    Whoever runs the severn bridge toll will make a fortune as hoards more Welsh people head over the border to escape labour's health catastrophe in Wales.

    Isn;t devolution wonderful?

    You only have to pay the toll to cross the Severn bridge into Wales.

    If the Welsh choose to return from England via the M50/A40 they won't have to pay the toll.
    Is it me or is there something astounding about the idea that getting into England is free whereas getting into Wales costs money?

    Can any of our Scotch nats explain this or has every cowardly losery bugger among them buggered off in a cowardly fashion?
    MalcolmG is still around and fields questions with his customary good humour.

    And Scotch is a drink, not a people - as if you didn't know.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    The purpose is to provide access to healthcare in a country where state control monopolises access, even for those with private insurance. Given that hard-working professionals are paying for the damn thing, they can at least be open when they're off work. If they need to close a couple days during the week, than do them during the workweek.
  • Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
    You can say many things about Ken Clarke, but to say he's had a disappointing life is not one of them.

    He's been Chancellor, Home Secretary, Justice Secretary, Education Secretary, Health Secretary, at 74 years he's still a dominant figure in British politics.
  • Voxpop in Clacton town centre could not find anyone intending to vote Conservative at the by-election.

    http://order-order.com/2014/09/29/guy-news-clacton-special-report/

    What time of day dis they show up? I don't men this snarkily and if anyone has facts to counter my predjudices feel free to post them but I'd imagine the Con vs UKIP split closely tracks "people with jobs" vs "retired or unemployed".
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Oxford

    You decry the end of the weekend and decide to tackle this issue by... Making more people work weekends. Great stuff. Great for family life. Great for childcare. Just all round brilliant. Well done.

    So, no weekends for the public sector, so they can enjoy their weekends shopping, drinking and eating with their families as those of us in the private sector fall over ourselves to provide them services they don't want to return in kind?
    Labour policy in a nutshell
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Any ideas why the govt wants to make GPs work on Sundays?

    I'd be royally pissed off if a politician told me I had to work weekends.

    We already have 24/7 medical care - in hospitals.

    Daft policy.

    People get sick on Sundays? And the 24/7 'Medical Care' is 'Accident & Emergency' - the vast majority of GP visits are neither.....
    There is a danger of spending a lot of government money on "the worried well". People do indeed get ill at weekends but by and large, they need out-of-hours cover or hospitals. There probably aren't that many patients contracting new acute conditions so serious they need to visit their GP immediately yet so trivial they can still go to work.
    Who's talking about "immediately"? We're just talking about getting access within a week. They don't have this problem in other countries.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    "Virgin asks Ofcom to probe Premier League TV costs"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29426570

    "issa free market innit?"
  • Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    If you look at the retail sector, you will see that hours were generally not increased - just redistributed.

    The same will happen here. The workload will be differently distributed.

    Yes, there will be extra costs - but there will be savings from avoiding unnecessary trips to A&E and similar emergency services.

    The aim appears to be to bring this in over a 5 year period which is adequate time for the necessary changes to be implemented.

    If you add two days to a work rota you either need to increase staff numbers or increase the number of hours current staff have to work. Either way it costs more. I may be thick, but I don't see a way round that. It makes sense for supermarkets because they make more money at the weekend. And 7-day a week surgeries are great for people who get poorly at the weekend and can't wait until Monday. But for the taxpayer generally it may not be such a great deal. It is, though, an excellent headline.

  • After Johnson and Osborne's flat performances,my investment on Ms Theresa May remains in play-Teresa May,TSE informs me,is more one for the Paisley pyjamas.Ms May excellent on repeal of the SUS laws.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    edited September 2014

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    Well, quite. UKIP is a party of disconnections. I don't just mean things like their claiming to be the real Conservatives while being opposed to free trade. The most obvious disconnection the typical UKIPper exhibits is to be in insistent denial about who else supports UKIP.

    The ones shouting online in the DTR comments for pogroms of Muslims? That's not official UKIP policy. The ones blaming floods on gay marriage? He used to be a Tory so he's not real UKIP. Calling women sluts? That's OK, he's not UKIP anymore. Getting jailed for expenses fraud? That's OK, he's not UKIP anymore. Getting jailed for benefit fraud? That's OK, he's not UKIP anymore. MEPs having to repay thousands in fiddled expenses? Huff puff huff puff. Whatabout-whatabout-whatabout. Farage's wife being an immigrant? Huff puff huff puff. Whatabout-whatabout-whatabout.

    They will have their moment of clarity, I suppose. I just hope it's not when they let Miliband into #10.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2014
    Politics aside Boris' speech is really entertaining

    His Dad was very good on Daily Politics earlier too
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited September 2014
    This surveillance thing is utter crap!
    literally now apparently...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29421952
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    If you look at the retail sector, you will see that hours were generally not increased - just redistributed.

    The same will happen here. The workload will be differently distributed.

    Yes, there will be extra costs - but there will be savings from avoiding unnecessary trips to A&E and similar emergency services.

    The aim appears to be to bring this in over a 5 year period which is adequate time for the necessary changes to be implemented.

    If you add two days to a work rota you either need to increase staff numbers or increase the number of hours current staff have to work. Either way it costs more. I may be thick, but I don't see a way round that. It makes sense for supermarkets because they make more money at the weekend. And 7-day a week surgeries are great for people who get poorly at the weekend and can't wait until Monday. But for the taxpayer generally it may not be such a great deal. It is, though, an excellent headline.

    Let supermarkets trial running surgeries - perhaps they can get it to work, if doctors themselves are incapable of organising shift working.
  • Socrates said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    The purpose is to provide access to healthcare in a country where state control monopolises access, even for those with private insurance. Given that hard-working professionals are paying for the damn thing, they can at least be open when they're off work. If they need to close a couple days during the week, than do them during the workweek.

    People tend to be off work when they are unwell. But even if that is not the case, I am struggling to see how opening at the weekends and closing a couple of days during the week to compensate makes much sense.

  • Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    If you look at the retail sector, you will see that hours were generally not increased - just redistributed.

    The same will happen here. The workload will be differently distributed.

    Yes, there will be extra costs - but there will be savings from avoiding unnecessary trips to A&E and similar emergency services.

    The aim appears to be to bring this in over a 5 year period which is adequate time for the necessary changes to be implemented.

    If you add two days to a work rota you either need to increase staff numbers or increase the number of hours current staff have to work. Either way it costs more. I may be thick, but I don't see a way round that. It makes sense for supermarkets because they make more money at the weekend. And 7-day a week surgeries are great for people who get poorly at the weekend and can't wait until Monday. But for the taxpayer generally it may not be such a great deal. It is, though, an excellent headline.

    Good summary. Normally the Tories are quite sensible about costing things . Maybe something happens at party conferences that make politicians think they are more powerful than they are
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited September 2014

    Voxpop in Clacton town centre could not find anyone intending to vote Conservative at the by-election.

    http://order-order.com/2014/09/29/guy-news-clacton-special-report/

    What time of day dis they show up? I don't men this snarkily and if anyone has facts to counter my predjudices feel free to post them but I'd imagine the Con vs UKIP split closely tracks "people with jobs" vs "retired or unemployed".
    I don't know. It looked like a saturday afternoon to me. They did find LD and Labour supporters.

    The 2010 result in Clacton was: Con 53%, Lab 25%, LD 13% (no UKIP candidate)

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/clacton/
  • dyed

    You do realise loads of public servants work 24/7 saving people's lives and stuff don't you?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited September 2014

    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.

    Grammar school, Cambridge, President of the Cambridge Union, called to the Bar, Queen's Counsel, MP at 29, junior transport minister, Paymaster General, Health Secretary, Home Secretary, Chancellor of the Exchequeur, opposed the Iraq War, Lord Chancellor, Justice Secretary, multiple non-exec directorships of major companies, presented radio programmes, happily married for (so far) 50 years, two children, and a huge range of interests including jazz, real ale, motor sports, birdwatching, cigars, political history, and parliament as a whole, and still chirpy and in good health at 74.

    Richard, if you think that is a 'disappointing life', you are a fool of the highest order.
  • Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    If you look at the retail sector, you will see that hours were generally not increased - just redistributed.

    The same will happen here. The workload will be differently distributed.

    Yes, there will be extra costs - but there will be savings from avoiding unnecessary trips to A&E and similar emergency services.

    The aim appears to be to bring this in over a 5 year period which is adequate time for the necessary changes to be implemented.

    If you add two days to a work rota you either need to increase staff numbers or increase the number of hours current staff have to work. Either way it costs more. I may be thick, but I don't see a way round that. It makes sense for supermarkets because they make more money at the weekend. And 7-day a week surgeries are great for people who get poorly at the weekend and can't wait until Monday. But for the taxpayer generally it may not be such a great deal. It is, though, an excellent headline.

    Let supermarkets trial running surgeries - perhaps they can get it to work, if doctors themselves are incapable of organising shift working.

    I am sure that supermarkets would if they were paid (or could make some money from it). But as with opening surgeries at the weekend it means extra spending.

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    dyed

    You do realise loads of public servants work 24/7 saving people's lives and stuff don't you?

    Yes, obviously. Which is why I don't understand the reticence for an essential service that we all pay for through the nose to be available at convenient hours.
    Doctors make a fortune, they should be providing a much better service, or take a huge pay cut.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    edited September 2014

    Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    If you look at the retail sector, you will see that hours were generally not increased - just redistributed.

    The same will happen here. The workload will be differently distributed.

    Yes, there will be extra costs - but there will be savings from avoiding unnecessary trips to A&E and similar emergency services.

    The aim appears to be to bring this in over a 5 year period which is adequate time for the necessary changes to be implemented.

    If you add two days to a work rota you either need to increase staff numbers or increase the number of hours current staff have to work. Either way it costs more. I may be thick, but I don't see a way round that. It makes sense for supermarkets because they make more money at the weekend. And 7-day a week surgeries are great for people who get poorly at the weekend and can't wait until Monday. But for the taxpayer generally it may not be such a great deal. It is, though, an excellent headline.

    Let supermarkets trial running surgeries - perhaps they can get it to work, if doctors themselves are incapable of organising shift working.
    I would prefer to see a doctor not a cashier if I had a medical problem though . Its not the venue that is the problem but the calibre of staff. If that staff has taken the trouble to spend years studying and long hours working in stressful conditions then they deserve the power that can tell politicians to get stuffed with their sunday working

    Doctors derive their power from their skill and hard work. That's fair enough and distinguishable from those who get power from who they know or because they control assets in a state monopoly (like tube drivers) or because they have inherited money or land.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    If you look at the retail sector, you will see that hours were generally not increased - just redistributed.

    The same will happen here. The workload will be differently distributed.

    Yes, there will be extra costs - but there will be savings from avoiding unnecessary trips to A&E and similar emergency services.

    The aim appears to be to bring this in over a 5 year period which is adequate time for the necessary changes to be implemented.

    If you add two days to a work rota you either need to increase staff numbers or increase the number of hours current staff have to work. Either way it costs more. I may be thick, but I don't see a way round that. It makes sense for supermarkets because they make more money at the weekend. And 7-day a week surgeries are great for people who get poorly at the weekend and can't wait until Monday. But for the taxpayer generally it may not be such a great deal. It is, though, an excellent headline.

    Let supermarkets trial running surgeries - perhaps they can get it to work, if doctors themselves are incapable of organising shift working.

    I am sure that supermarkets would if they were paid (or could make some money from it). But as with opening surgeries at the weekend it means extra spending.

    Not necessarily, one would assume the same amount of illness etc, so it's just spreading that out over a longer period and shift working to meet demand. If de,and spikes through fewer A and E weekend visits then the NHS will have resource to provide locum cover. Simples.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    taffys said:

    Daft policy.

    Well there is this....

    Whoever runs the severn bridge toll will make a fortune as hoards more Welsh people head over the border to escape labour's health catastrophe in Wales.

    Isn;t devolution wonderful?

    You only have to pay the toll to cross the Severn bridge into Wales.

    If the Welsh choose to return from England via the M50/A40 they won't have to pay the toll.
    Is it me or is there something astounding about the idea that getting into England is free whereas getting into Wales costs money?

    Can any of our Scotch nats explain this or has every cowardly losery bugger among them buggered off in a cowardly fashion?
    Are you drunk? You seem very pot-valiant about the losery Scots, did you defeat them single-handed? And why do they have to answer your imbecilic question about Wales?

    How it works is, you work out how much you want per crossing and then charge twice that one way and nothing the other: same revenue, half the cost of collecting it. Clever, eh?

  • Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
    You can say many things about Ken Clarke, but to say he's had a disappointing life is not one of them.

    He's been Chancellor, Home Secretary, Justice Secretary, Education Secretary, Health Secretary, at 74 years he's still a dominant figure in British politics.
    He has been consistently wrong about what he has claimed to be one of the most important issues of his whole career.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited September 2014
    Boris on the EU: "That is the new fisheries policy we need: first chuck Salmond overboard, then eat the Kippers."
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    If you look at the retail sector, you will see that hours were generally not increased - just redistributed.

    The same will happen here. The workload will be differently distributed.

    Yes, there will be extra costs - but there will be savings from avoiding unnecessary trips to A&E and similar emergency services.

    The aim appears to be to bring this in over a 5 year period which is adequate time for the necessary changes to be implemented.

    If you add two days to a work rota you either need to increase staff numbers or increase the number of hours current staff have to work. Either way it costs more. I may be thick, but I don't see a way round that. It makes sense for supermarkets because they make more money at the weekend. And 7-day a week surgeries are great for people who get poorly at the weekend and can't wait until Monday. But for the taxpayer generally it may not be such a great deal. It is, though, an excellent headline.

    Good summary. Normally the Tories are quite sensible about costing things . Maybe something happens at party conferences that make politicians think they are more powerful than they are
    Typical socialists - quite happy to pay GPs (or public sector producer interests in general) considerably more to do considerably less and then whinge when someone actually tries to redress the balance.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited September 2014

    Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    If you look at the retail sector, you will see that hours were generally not increased - just redistributed.

    The same will happen here. The workload will be differently distributed.

    Yes, there will be extra costs - but there will be savings from avoiding unnecessary trips to A&E and similar emergency services.

    The aim appears to be to bring this in over a 5 year period which is adequate time for the necessary changes to be implemented.

    If you add two days to a work rota you either need to increase staff numbers or increase the number of hours current staff have to work. Either way it costs more. I may be thick, but I don't see a way round that. It makes sense for supermarkets because they make more money at the weekend. And 7-day a week surgeries are great for people who get poorly at the weekend and can't wait until Monday. But for the taxpayer generally it may not be such a great deal. It is, though, an excellent headline.

    Let supermarkets trial running surgeries - perhaps they can get it to work, if doctors themselves are incapable of organising shift working.
    I would prefer to see a doctor not a cashier if I had a medical problem though . Its not the venue that is the problem but the calibre of staff. If that staff has taken the trouble to spend years studying and long hours working in stressful conditions then they deserve the power that can tell politicians to get stuffed with their sunday working
    I'm sure the supermarkets could source medical staff of the same quality as the NHS.

    Doctors are rewarded handsomely for those many years of study; unless you think £80K+ is a pittance.

    One does wonder who Labour supporters think that 'Everyones NHS' is really run for - the staff or the patients? Reading through todays comments, it looks like the former,
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    Well, quite. UKIP is a party of disconnections. I don't just mean things like their claiming to be the real Conservatives while being opposed to free trade. The most obvious disconnection the typical UKIPper exhibits is to be in insistent denial about who else supports UKIP.

    The ones shouting online in the DTR comments for pogroms of Muslims? That's not official UKIP policy. The ones blaming floods on gay marriage? He used to be a Tory so he's not real UKIP. Calling women sluts? That's OK, he's not UKIP anymore. Getting jailed for expenses fraud? That's OK, he's not UKIP anymore. Getting jailed for benefit fraud? That's OK, he's not UKIP anymore. MEPs having to repay thousands in fiddled expenses? Huff puff huff puff. Whatabout-whatabout-whatabout. Farage's wife being an immigrant? Huff puff huff puff. Whatabout-whatabout-whatabout.

    They will have their moment of clarity, I suppose. I just hope it's not when they let Miliband into #10.
    They have also managed to persuade people what their policies are without actually having any. Their most popular "policy" that people think they have is to make foreign people leave the country. I have asked on here what UKIPs approach to foreign people currently living in the country is and have never got a response. Everyone who defends UKIP with extreme gusto should anyone ever dare say anything negative about UKIP, all claimed not to be part of UKIPs policy unit so didn't know. It is clever though to portray a perception without having a policy whatsoever.

    My favourite line from one of our sparks this morning was that he was voting UKIP as they will get rid off all the blacks. He genuinely said that. He is clearly a racist who has found a home with UKIP beleiving that they will implememnt his racist ideals. Clearly they will not, but as long as he thinks they will then he will vote for them.
  • Norm said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @oxfordsimon
    24/7 doctors surgeries? I mean the supermarkets manage it?
    Off topic, but when Margret "smashed the unions", she left quite a few alone.
    "we had to stuff their mouths with gold" (I may be paraphrasing)

    Supermarkets are not compelled to open on Sundays. They do it because it makes them money.

    Doctors surgeries staying open at the weekends will clearly mean a lot more salary expenditure as it will not just be doctors who have to be working in them. There'll be other staff - receptionists, nurses, other health workers - who will need paying for the extra work they do. And there will be a significant increase in general running costs. I am struggling to see how this is an efficient use of finite resources. We need a lot more detail.

    If you look at the retail sector, you will see that hours were generally not increased - just redistributed.

    The same will happen here. The workload will be differently distributed.

    Yes, there will be extra costs - but there will be savings from avoiding unnecessary trips to A&E and similar emergency services.

    The aim appears to be to bring this in over a 5 year period which is adequate time for the necessary changes to be implemented.

    If you add two days to a work rota you either need to increase staff numbers or increase the number of hours current staff have to work. Either way it costs more. I may be thick, but I don't see a way round that. It makes sense for supermarkets because they make more money at the weekend. And 7-day a week surgeries are great for people who get poorly at the weekend and can't wait until Monday. But for the taxpayer generally it may not be such a great deal. It is, though, an excellent headline.

    Good summary. Normally the Tories are quite sensible about costing things . Maybe something happens at party conferences that make politicians think they are more powerful than they are
    Typical socialists - quite happy to pay GPs (or public sector producer interests in general) considerably more to do considerably less and then whinge when someone actually tries to redress the balance.

    I am not a socialist ,far from it (can you still challenge somebody to a duel if they insult you like this?) and am happy for the tories to sort out many lax non-jobs in the public sector. However nobody argues being a doctor is a non-job and so you have to respect the skill
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    The classic thing we need to do with GP surgeries is make them have to publicly state on their website how long it takes to get (a) an appointment, (b) an evening appointment and (c) a weekend appointment. They should also release the average time it takes to get through on the phone.
  • Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
    You can say many things about Ken Clarke, but to say he's had a disappointing life is not one of them.

    He's been Chancellor, Home Secretary, Justice Secretary, Education Secretary, Health Secretary, at 74 years he's still a dominant figure in British politics.
    He has been consistently wrong about what he has claimed to be one of the most important issues of his whole career.
    A lot of us think he's been right all along and although it isn't my Party, the Conservatives might have been a whole lot better placed today had they acknowledged this many years ago.
  • Boris on the EU: "That is the new fisheries policy we need: first chuck Salmond overboard, then eat the Kippers."

    But who's going to hoover up the Sturgeon?
  • Socrates said:

    The classic thing we need to do with GP surgeries is make them have to publicly state on their website how long it takes to get (a) an appointment, (b) an evening appointment and (c) a weekend appointment. They should also release the average time it takes to get through on the phone.

    but that's not the most important criteria is it? Surely being competent is more important . If a GP rushes through appointments to cut down a waiting list they are doing their job worse not better
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Richard_Tyndall

    'I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.'

    The most stupid post of the month.
  • Voxpop in Clacton town centre could not find anyone intending to vote Conservative at the by-election.

    http://order-order.com/2014/09/29/guy-news-clacton-special-report/

    I don't men this snarkily and if anyone has facts to counter my predjudices feel free to post them but I'd imagine the Con vs UKIP split closely tracks "people with jobs" vs "retired or unemployed".
    In the recent Ashcroft poll, Conservative 'loyalists', were older than 'defectors'.

    p.30 of PDF
    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/LORD-ASHCROFT-POLLS-Project-Blueprint-Phase-5.pdf
  • Boris on the EU: "That is the new fisheries policy we need: first chuck Salmond overboard, then eat the Kippers."

    But who's going to hoover up the Sturgeon?
    There is a suggestion that that is being subcontracted to Gordon Brown.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.

    Grammar school, Cambridge, President of the Cambridge Union, called to the Bar, Queen's Counsel, MP at 29, junior transport minister, Paymaster General, Health Secretary, Home Secretary, Chancellor of the Exchequeur, opposed the Iraq War, Lord Chancellor, Justice Secretary, multiple non-exec directorships of major companies, presented radio programmes, happily married for (so far) 50 years, two children, and a huge range of interests including jazz, real ale, motor sports, birdwatching, cigars, political history, and parliament as a whole, and still chirpy and in good health at 74.

    Richard, if you think that is a 'disappointing life', you are a fool of the highest order.
    You missed out his time lobbying for loosening health requirements on addictive products in the third world.
  • Ed's interview with the British people:

    “Hi, come on in. Sorry to keep you waiting but we’ve had quite a few of these interviews to get through…It’s Ed, isn’t it? Let me introduce everyone – we’re the British people. I understand you’ve met quite a few of us already.

    Do you have a copy of your CV to hand?…No, that’s fine, everyone forgets things. I think we have one here…yes, that’s all very impressive. What about in your spare time? It says here you like walks in the park and meeting new people…”


    http://labourlist.org/2014/09/eds-interview-with-the-british-people/
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited September 2014

    Socrates said:

    The classic thing we need to do with GP surgeries is make them have to publicly state on their website how long it takes to get (a) an appointment, (b) an evening appointment and (c) a weekend appointment. They should also release the average time it takes to get through on the phone.

    but that's not the most important criteria is it? Surely being competent is more important . If a GP rushes through appointments to cut down a waiting list they are doing their job worse not better
    Get them to release average appointment durations too then.

    Having said that, I'd rather a rushed appointment than having to wait three weeks to get one.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
    You can say many things about Ken Clarke, but to say he's had a disappointing life is not one of them.

    He's been Chancellor, Home Secretary, Justice Secretary, Education Secretary, Health Secretary, at 74 years he's still a dominant figure in British politics.
    Disappointment = aspiration minus achievement. He had three stabs at the party leadership.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
    You can say many things about Ken Clarke, but to say he's had a disappointing life is not one of them.

    He's been Chancellor, Home Secretary, Justice Secretary, Education Secretary, Health Secretary, at 74 years he's still a dominant figure in British politics.
    He has been consistently wrong about what he has claimed to be one of the most important issues of his whole career.
    Curry, lager and cheroots?
  • Opinium tables... must have Opinium tables...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited September 2014
    Can we also start forcing GPs to organise prescriptions over the phone? It's absurd you have to make two visits to the GP and one to the pharmacist to get your medicine in this day and age. A classic case of Douglas Carswell's point that the rest of the world has moved on and public-sector dominated areas are stuck in the dark age.
  • Ishmael_X said:

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
    You can say many things about Ken Clarke, but to say he's had a disappointing life is not one of them.

    He's been Chancellor, Home Secretary, Justice Secretary, Education Secretary, Health Secretary, at 74 years he's still a dominant figure in British politics.
    Disappointment = aspiration minus achievement. He had three stabs at the party leadership.
    1997 and 2001 were possibly the biggest errors in Tory history.

    1997 - Ultimately damaged William Hague in the long run by becoming Tory Leaders

    2001 - We chose IDS over Ken Clarke, FerFuxsSake.

    2001 - Really did depress the poop out of me.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil's diary of an opinium addict? Your working title just wrote itself. ;-)
  • Socrates said:

    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.

    Grammar school, Cambridge, President of the Cambridge Union, called to the Bar, Queen's Counsel, MP at 29, junior transport minister, Paymaster General, Health Secretary, Home Secretary, Chancellor of the Exchequeur, opposed the Iraq War, Lord Chancellor, Justice Secretary, multiple non-exec directorships of major companies, presented radio programmes, happily married for (so far) 50 years, two children, and a huge range of interests including jazz, real ale, motor sports, birdwatching, cigars, political history, and parliament as a whole, and still chirpy and in good health at 74.

    Richard, if you think that is a 'disappointing life', you are a fool of the highest order.
    You missed out his time lobbying for loosening health requirements on addictive products in the third world.
    He found that disappointing, did he?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Ishmael_X said:

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
    You can say many things about Ken Clarke, but to say he's had a disappointing life is not one of them.

    He's been Chancellor, Home Secretary, Justice Secretary, Education Secretary, Health Secretary, at 74 years he's still a dominant figure in British politics.
    Disappointment = aspiration minus achievement. He had three stabs at the party leadership.
    1997 and 2001 were possibly the biggest errors in Tory history.

    1997 - Ultimately damaged William Hague in the long run by becoming Tory Leaders

    2001 - We chose IDS over Ken Clarke, FerFuxsSake.

    2001 - Really did depress the poop out of me.
    We'd be in the Euro doldrums by now had we elected him on either occasion.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    edited September 2014
    Ishmael_X said:

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
    You can say many things about Ken Clarke, but to say he's had a disappointing life is not one of them.

    He's been Chancellor, Home Secretary, Justice Secretary, Education Secretary, Health Secretary, at 74 years he's still a dominant figure in British politics.
    Disappointment = aspiration minus achievement. He had three stabs at the party leadership.
    not sure aspiration minus achievement equals disappointment (but good formula!!). If Clarke had not had had a stab at the leadership each opportunity he could then surely he would be more disappointed with 'what if I---' with the crucial bit of that sentence
    being the 'I'

    David Miliband on the other hand may die 'disappointed'
  • Ishmael_X said:

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
    You can say many things about Ken Clarke, but to say he's had a disappointing life is not one of them.

    He's been Chancellor, Home Secretary, Justice Secretary, Education Secretary, Health Secretary, at 74 years he's still a dominant figure in British politics.
    Disappointment = aspiration minus achievement. He had three stabs at the party leadership.
    1997 and 2001 were possibly the biggest errors in Tory history.

    1997 - Ultimately damaged William Hague in the long run by becoming Tory Leaders

    2001 - We chose IDS over Ken Clarke, FerFuxsSake.

    2001 - Really did depress the poop out of me.
    Choosing Ken in 2001 would simply have meant the Tory party ripping itself apart even earlier than it has.
  • FYI - The next thread should be going up in the next half hour or so.

    It contains some very bad language, so if you're easily offended by bad language you might want to give it a miss.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Socrates said:

    Can we also start forcing GPs to organise prescriptions over the phone? It's absurd you have to make two visits to the GP and one to the pharmacist to get your medicine in this day and age. A classic case of Douglas Carswell's point that the rest of the world has moved on and public-sector dominated areas are stuck in the dark age.

    You don't have to do any such thing . I drop off my repeat prescription at the GP and the pharmacy deliver it to my home within 36 hours .
  • Ishmael_X said:

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
    You can say many things about Ken Clarke, but to say he's had a disappointing life is not one of them.

    He's been Chancellor, Home Secretary, Justice Secretary, Education Secretary, Health Secretary, at 74 years he's still a dominant figure in British politics.
    Disappointment = aspiration minus achievement. He had three stabs at the party leadership.
    1997 and 2001 were possibly the biggest errors in Tory history.

    1997 - Ultimately damaged William Hague in the long run by becoming Tory Leaders

    2001 - We chose IDS over Ken Clarke, FerFuxsSake.

    2001 - Really did depress the poop out of me.
    Choosing Ken in 2001 would simply have meant the Tory party ripping itself apart even earlier than it has.
    Better to get it out of the way Richard :-)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    edited September 2014
    Socrates said:

    Can we also start forcing GPs to organise prescriptions over the phone? It's absurd you have to make two visits to the GP and one to the pharmacist to get your medicine in this day and age. A classic case of Douglas Carswell's point that the rest of the world has moved on and public-sector dominated areas are stuck in the dark age.

    System already exists and is being rolled out. There's also a system whereby GP's can write 6 months prescriptions and gives to the pharmacy of the patients choice.
    Problems around GP's co-operation and at least one of the big multiple pharmacies abusing it.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Socrates said:

    Can we also start forcing GPs to organise prescriptions over the phone? It's absurd you have to make two visits to the GP and one to the pharmacist to get your medicine in this day and age. A classic case of Douglas Carswell's point that the rest of the world has moved on and public-sector dominated areas are stuck in the dark age.

    Mine does them over the phone or by email, and dispenses from the surgery. I am pretty certain there are also arrangements whereby I could get the prescription sent automatically to the pharmacist at the local supermarket, and even get the medication delivered to my house.

  • Socrates said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    I would have thought that elderly male people who have had disappointing lives is a perfect description of Ken.
    You can say many things about Ken Clarke, but to say he's had a disappointing life is not one of them.

    He's been Chancellor, Home Secretary, Justice Secretary, Education Secretary, Health Secretary, at 74 years he's still a dominant figure in British politics.
    Disappointment = aspiration minus achievement. He had three stabs at the party leadership.
    1997 and 2001 were possibly the biggest errors in Tory history.

    1997 - Ultimately damaged William Hague in the long run by becoming Tory Leaders

    2001 - We chose IDS over Ken Clarke, FerFuxsSake.

    2001 - Really did depress the poop out of me.
    We'd be in the Euro doldrums by now had we elected him on either occasion.
    true
  • FYI - The next thread should be going up in the next half hour or so.

    It contains some very bad language, so if you're easily offended by bad language you might want to give it a miss.

    SeanT goes head to head with Malcolm ?
  • I see Continuity Blair has been tweeting about growf. Like Brown and Balls he is a member of the Cult of Growf.

    Has he any comment on the Balance of Payments, which was again far worse than predicted.

    The last time the BoP was this bad was in 1989.

    There were other similarities between 1989 and now - housing becoming unaffordable and retail sales at an all time high.

    But in 1989 government debt was below 30%, had been falling for several years and the government was running a fiscal surplus. Now government debt is at 80% and rising and £100bn more gets borrowed each and every year.

    In 1989 industrial production had risen by 60% during the previous generation and productivity was continually rising. Now industrial production is lower than it was in 1989 and productivity has been stagnant for nearly a decade.

    It should be remembered that a year after 1989 the economy entered recession.

    What happens if we have a recession next year ?

    Didn't someone once make a comment about repairing the roof when the sun was shining ?

    But all I see this week is the magic money tree getting another shaking and no roof repairing.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Can we also start forcing GPs to organise prescriptions over the phone? It's absurd you have to make two visits to the GP and one to the pharmacist to get your medicine in this day and age. A classic case of Douglas Carswell's point that the rest of the world has moved on and public-sector dominated areas are stuck in the dark age.

    You don't have to do any such thing . I drop off my repeat prescription at the GP and the pharmacy deliver it to my home within 36 hours .
    It sounds like there's a huge variety in service quality throughout the country.
  • currystar said:

    Ukip Voters 'Elderly Male People Who've Had Disappointing Lives', Says Ken Clarke

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/ukip-voters-ken-clarke_n_5903940.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

    LOL. You can count on Ken to tell it how it is....
    The full quote....

    Clarke added that while Farage had "absorbed the BNP vote" and "taken on board BNP followers. He said there was "a nasty undertone" in Farage's movement. "He does attract elderly male people who have had disappointing lives," Clarke said.
    Well, quite. UKIP is a party of disconnections. I don't just mean things like their claiming to be the real Conservatives while being opposed to free trade. The most obvious disconnection the typical UKIPper exhibits is to be in insistent denial about who else supports UKIP.

    The ones shouting online in the DT comments for pogroms of Muslims? That's not official UKIP policy. The ones blaming floods on gay marriage? He used to be a Tory so he's not real UKIP. Calling women sluts? That's OK, he's not UKIP anymore. Getting jailed for expenses fraud? That's OK, he's not UKIP anymore. Getting jailed for benefit fraud? That's OK, he's not UKIP anymore. MEPs having to repay thousands in fiddled expenses? Huff puff huff puff. Whatabout-whatabout-whatabout. Farage's wife being an immigrant? Huff puff huff puff. Whatabout-whatabout-whatabout.

    They will have their moment of clarity, I suppose. I just hope it's not when they let Miliband into #10.
    I have asked on here what UKIPs approach to foreign people currently living in the country is and have never got a response. Everyone who defends UKIP with extreme gusto should anyone ever dare say anything negative about UKIP, all claimed not to be part of UKIPs policy unit so didn't know.
    Quite. They have no actual suggestions for what do about all these foreigners they hate (who are in fact third generation British in many cases, eg Rotherham).

    UKIP has what a mate of mine called the Ford Capri Problem, back when you saw those around. The Ford Capri is a nicely-styled well-appointed and sporty car, with a powerful engine and a bit of road presence. It looks like the kind of car you'd consider for yourself - right up until the point where you look at who actually drives them. And at that point, you realise you were on the verge of an appalling lapse of taste and judgement.

    At some point sane UKIPpers will realise that Cameron and Clarke are right. It's just a question of whether they do this after they have let Miliband in or before.
  • hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    Have we got to the stage where we can change the term PB Tories to PB Fruitcakes ?

    I think there are many PM regulars who were Tories that have gone over to UKIP. This does mirror comments pages elsewhere online, where Tories are saying that they have moved to UKIP. I don't know how representative this is. Polls suggest that about 20% of Tory 2010 votes may switch to UKIP.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    boulay said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Miss Cyclefree, apparently both the Sun and the Mail (or Mail on Sunday, I forget which) turned the story down.

    Furthermore, Maguire's rubbish claim it's in 'the public interest' because of the MP's job simply doesn't stack up, because contact was made with a significant number of (exclusively Conservative) MPs.

    Why is it than when young female slebs had their naked photos misappropriated they got sympathy and the perp scorn and the attention of law enforcement; whereas when a Tory MP's naked photos are misappropriated he gets the scorn and the perp gets off scot free?

    Has there really been no crime committed here by the journalist?

    I'm not an expert in this area of the law but using someone's photo without their consent to pass them off as someone else (as has happened to the two women) seems highly questionable to me. Arguably, it could amount to defamation.

    Maybe a legal eagle with expertise can comment?

    this was an interesting view on the matter from a legal perspective.....

    http://barristerblogger.com/2014/09/28/tricked-sex-fraud-sunday-mirrors-sting-brookes-newmark-criminal/
    Thank you.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Socrates said:

    Can we also start forcing GPs to organise prescriptions over the phone? It's absurd you have to make two visits to the GP and one to the pharmacist to get your medicine in this day and age. A classic case of Douglas Carswell's point that the rest of the world has moved on and public-sector dominated areas are stuck in the dark age.

    You have e-prescriptions now. So 1 visit to the doctor, 1 to pharmacist. Scrip refills can be approved online and delivered remoted by the pharmacist.

    But I'm sure Douglas Carswell is absolutely right about everything ;-)
This discussion has been closed.