Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
Thatcher closed grammar schools and introduced the poll tax into Scotland. She signed us into the single market and made no attempt to leave the EU. She also lost the Falkland Islands before having to fight a damn close run thing to retake them.
Its not Thatcher as was, it the use of her invented memory to invoke something you want to promote. The loony right are as bad as the lying left, Its a bit like saying the memory of Thatcher is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
I am a big big fan of Thatcher; of course one of her most able lieutenants in taking on the vested interests in Health Education was Ken Clarke who under Major regained control of spending and bequeathed a rapidly falling deficit. The loonys will not credit him for that. But did she cut public sector jobs like Cameron is? Did we see the level of job creation? Did she ever offer a referendum on the EU? Take NHS spending between 1980 and 1990; it went from 11 billion to 50 billion. Has Cameron increased NHS spending 5 fold? He is working to contain it to a fraction of that and there is silence from cretins like Reckless as Labour make politics out of it. Faced with that level of honesty from the fruity right does the nation have chance? The Right letting the nation down again. As a supporter of the Right I think I am entitled to be angry.
Whichever way you look at it the criticism of Cameron is hysteric baloney used by people who are fundamentally cowards, bigots and cowardly bigots, exploiting dark fears for their own nefarious ends. Just as Thatcher was not perfect neither is Cameron. None of this is the point. Europhile Miliband, who could not bring himself to talk about the deficit in public, and Labour are far worse.
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
But, he confesses, he has already had cause to contemplate his political mortality, admitting that he wanted to resign if Scotland had voted for independence.
He said: “I thought about it a lot. Emotionally I would have been very winded and wounded,” he said. “I thought in many ways that is what I would want to do.”
.....In the end, Cameron says he would have stayed on. “I just don’t think [resigning is] the right thing to do. The job of the United Kingdom prime minister, whatever the outcome, would be to knuckle down and get on with the job. I think it would not have been doing your duty.”
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
I'm aghast to say it was their maitre-d' who collared me as a lady of dubious virtue.
It was hilarious. We'd spent lunchtime at Petreus and popped into Claridges for fancy cakes. I was merely being nice to a glum looking patron when I was intercepted.
My host was appalled. It really made my day and I still laugh like a drain about it.
PS A friend of mine was mates with the maitre'd at The Ivy - who was called Dermot...
So the England captain has had sex with a prostitute gran but a lower league minister has to resign for suggesting he will play away?
In Claridges? Good grief. I bet it was not an English gentleman. Not that I would ever take you for a lady of negotiable virtue anywhere, Miss P, but only a cad would expect to find such a lady in Claridges. The Mayfair Hotel is the place to go for that sort of thing, you can't move in the bar for them.
Thanks for all the UKIP supporters for explaining their Cameron hatred. I found it genuinely interesting. Although as someone inherently distrustful of government and those who run it, I find it difficult to get that het up over the slipperiness of one particular politician. That's the difference between me and you big-government/utopian types, I guess. (And, of course, Farage is currently the most untested politician in Britain, which does give his supporters the luxury of imposing highly exacting standards on everyone else.)
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
And still no comment on your homophobic councillors? Should I assume that is because you agree with them?
But, he confesses, he has already had cause to contemplate his political mortality, admitting that he wanted to resign if Scotland had voted for independence.
He said: “I thought about it a lot. Emotionally I would have been very winded and wounded,” he said. “I thought in many ways that is what I would want to do.”
.....In the end, Cameron says he would have stayed on. “I just don’t think [resigning is] the right thing to do. The job of the United Kingdom prime minister, whatever the outcome, would be to knuckle down and get on with the job. I think it would not have been doing your duty.”
Mr Cameron gives me the impression of someone keen to get onto the post-PM speaking junket circuit. He doesn't seem to want to actually achieve anything in government.
Your comment on a "Cast Iron Promise" is either: (a) deliberately misremembering, (b) mischievously misremembering, or (c) actually misremembering. Which is it?
There was no point holding a Ref after Brown snuck in and already signed it, and Cameron never promised to do so.
There is no mis-remembering. The Cast Iron Promise was deliberately misleading and a number of us were saying so when it was originally made. It was designed specifically to make people think it meant one thing when it meant entirely something else. It is very sad that so many people fell for it.
Of course you will try to claim otherwise as you were caught out by the fact that after the event so many people came to see it as the lie it was intended to be.
The fact that you Cameroon's are still in denial about this after all this time shows just how out of touch you are.
Likewise the immigration pledge to 'reduce net migration to the tens of thousands' would have been read by many as reducing immigration to ten thousand.
Then there's Cameron lying in a PPB "we are paying down Britain's debts".
So the England captain has had sex with a prostitute gran but a lower league minister has to resign for suggesting he will play away?
In Claridges? Good grief. I bet it was not an English gentleman. Not that I would ever take you for a lady of negotiable virtue anywhere, Miss P, but only a cad would expect to find such a lady in Claridges. The Mayfair Hotel is the place to go for that sort of thing, you can't move in the bar for them.
PB where you meet a better class of people, TSE included.
But, he confesses, he has already had cause to contemplate his political mortality, admitting that he wanted to resign if Scotland had voted for independence.
He said: “I thought about it a lot. Emotionally I would have been very winded and wounded,” he said. “I thought in many ways that is what I would want to do.”
.....In the end, Cameron says he would have stayed on. “I just don’t think [resigning is] the right thing to do. The job of the United Kingdom prime minister, whatever the outcome, would be to knuckle down and get on with the job. I think it would not have been doing your duty.”
Mr Cameron gives me the impression of someone keen to get onto the post-PM speaking junket circuit. He doesn't seem to want to actually achieve anything in government.
Lol you should read the article, Cameron lists the things he wants to achieve in government
Thanks for all the UKIP supporters for explaining their Cameron hatred. I found it genuinely interesting. Although as someone inherently distrustful of government and those who run it, I find it difficult to get that het up over the slipperiness of one particular politician. That's the difference between me and you big-government/utopian types, I guess. (And, of course, Farage is currently the most untested politician in Britain, which does give his supporters the luxury of imposing highly exacting standards on everyone else.)
I don't hate Cameron at all, his fruitcake remarks weren't nice but al least it was what he thinks. My problem with him is he could have been a really good PM, but he is too lazy.
How hard can it be to really get your head down for five years, most of us have done it without the huge rewards that go with it.
"the criticism of Cameron is hysteric baloney used by people who are fundamentally cowards, bigots and cowardly bigots, exploiting dark fears for their own nefarious ends."
Got that folks? Any criticism of the Dear Leader makes you a cowardly bigot out for your own nefarious ends and exploiting dark fears as you do so.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
It was the lefty BBC that came up with the name Ting Tong:
Your comment on a "Cast Iron Promise" is either: (a) deliberately misremembering, (b) mischievously misremembering, or (c) actually misremembering. Which is it?
There was no point holding a Ref after Brown snuck in and already signed it, and Cameron never promised to do so.
There is no mis-remembering. The Cast Iron Promise was deliberately misleading and a number of us were saying so when it was originally made. It was designed specifically to make people think it meant one thing when it meant entirely something else. It is very sad that so many people fell for it.
Of course you will try to claim otherwise as you were caught out by the fact that after the event so many people came to see it as the lie it was intended to be.
The fact that you Cameroon's are still in denial about this after all this time shows just how out of touch you are.
You are terribly desperate to keep repeating lies like this . The issue was quite clearly put forward at a time when there was total uncertainty about when the treaty might be ratified. Both the 2009 and 2010 manifestos were quite clear and not misleading at all. And as promised Cameron has made clear that he does not want ever closer union and is proposing a referendum just as soon as he can get a majority for it in parliament.
You need to keep peddling your rubbish to keep yourself happy in your fantasy... and before you start off with all your whinging again, its a tough job having to point it out and the nasty habits of the ting tong tendancy in UKIP, but someone's got to do it.
Important not to over react to the events of today. Yes, this is a setback for the Tories. But it's not terminal for their chances in 2015.
There probably will be a further defection on Wednesday. But that'll probably be it. It's clear UKIP haven't been able to convince anyone else to jump ship, and the window for by-elections before the general election is rapidly closing. Any further defectors will have to either be those standing down in 2015, or those gambling on winning in the general.
Farage's strategy is clear: he wants a cadre of MPs to be able to make a watertight case for his inclusion in the debates next year. He then hopes to leverage that profile to win a dozen or so MPs in the election itself, and hold the balance of power in a hung parliament.
The trouble is that Farage won't be one of the (three max) UKIP MPs next year. He probably will get some sort of national stage, but not on a level pegging with Ed Miliband and Cameron.
I do expect him to win several MPs next year (probably 6-7 MPs) but in the key marginals it will be a straight Con-Lab fight where UKIP haven't established themselves. The data and polling above supports that: it is a close race and a choice between the lesser of two evils.
A Conservative minority government is still a strong possibility.
Really? Hasn't there been very little Lab-Con or Con-Lab switching? In which case the winner is who can grow on 2010, or if the gap with a Con lead can be retained. The Tories will not be growing on 2010, not with UKIP eating into their support and some measure of those displeased with the government at the least staying home, and even a narrow Tory lead results in Labour being in the driving seat.
All of 3 of tonight's polls have one thing in common, LD's polling 6&7, LD's are still slowly digging lower.
You wouldn't think it possible for them to go lower.
But apparently it is.
Actually they have picked up a bit, at the moment they are averaging just under 8, a couple of weeks ago it was just over 7.5%. UKIP have fallen back from about 15.5% to 14% but seem to be moving up a bit again. The Labour lead did stretch to over 4 but is now back to just over 3.5%
(based on the unscientific method of a spreadsheet which averages the polls over approximately the same time period as the graph on the Wikipedia polls page)
Some of the LDs stand for more state control than any Liberals could claim to stomach; and some are almost as green as the authoritarians led by Bennet and Lucas.
The LDs are not 'liberals' are they? There still is a 'Liberal Party' Its hard to say what it is - but I'd have to guess its hand wringing Social Democrat. Its a plausible stance to take. It comes a long way second best to me, but in the main the criticism I have of them is that in govt they just want to dis their partners and milk what they can for themselves. The last 5 years are not about high sounding principles at all, its just about fiddling an angle to look good and survive.
You seem fundamentally confused about the nature of politics and coalition.
Thanks for all the UKIP supporters for explaining their Cameron hatred. I found it genuinely interesting. Although as someone inherently distrustful of government and those who run it, I find it difficult to get that het up over the slipperiness of one particular politician. That's the difference between me and you big-government/utopian types, I guess. (And, of course, Farage is currently the most untested politician in Britain, which does give his supporters the luxury of imposing highly exacting standards on everyone else.)
I think for many people interested in politics who come from the Right the fact that Cameron turned out to be just another dishonest politician like the rest of them came as no huge surprise. I do think there were a lot of people though who were rather more idealistic for whom his betrayal was all the more hard to bear.
On your other point I have no illusions that Farage will necessarily turn out to be any better. All I do know is that at the moment he is at least taking the fight to the established parties on issues I agree with and that there is some chance, however small, that we will see a genuine small state/ Libertarian party emerge from this transitional phase.
If I am being honest I think that the current direction of the party mitigates against that but at the same time the arrival of people like Carswell and Reckless might help my side.
But one thing you can be sure of is that unlike a lot of the Tories on here if and when UKIP do decide to be just like any other party and abandon the core principles then I will no longer be a member or supporter.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
Do tell why you think its so clever to use a rather lame BBC Comedy show racial stereotype? You do realise 'Ting Tong' is a character from Little Britain?
If they are still polling 6pts by December they might as well cut and run on some point of principle, hoping for a bounce.
6%
FFS. I voted for them in 2010.
Whilst they still poll at tiny numbers, the fact is that in local elections, they're still doing OKish. Suspect there's a disconnect here still between the national view of LD - my own would be dim, and I also voted for them - and the realpolitik view - I might still vote for them locally, because they're better than the alternatives in the context of my constituency.
BBC news This shows the scale of the difference between Cameron and his backbenchers on the right - ironically detoxifying the Tories for centrist floating voters
Really looking forward to Cameron and Marr at 9.00 a.m. tomorrow morning!
I find it very difficult to listen to Cameron as he comes across as a slippery salesman. Also quite often he becomes a little bit angsty, if he does not like the line of questioning.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
"the criticism of Cameron is hysteric baloney used by people who are fundamentally cowards, bigots and cowardly bigots, exploiting dark fears for their own nefarious ends."
Got that folks? Any criticism of the Dear Leader makes you a cowardly bigot out for your own nefarious ends and exploiting dark fears as you do so.
Its the hate filled sense of privileged entitlement which has been the revelation to me.
Richard_Tyndall, the difficulty as I believe from the very little I have heard, was that Lisbon incorporated majority voting. It is not like Kyoto where you can vote to join and then later vote to leave. A referedum to unsign Lisbon won't reestablish the veto. The referendum only made sense before Lisbon was ratified by all the states.
Your comment on a "Cast Iron Promise" is either: (a) deliberately misremembering, (b) mischievously misremembering, or (c) actually misremembering. Which is it?
There was no point holding a Ref after Brown snuck in and already signed it, and Cameron never promised to do so.
There is no mis-remembering. The Cast Iron Promise was deliberately misleading and a number of us were saying so when it was originally made. It was designed specifically to make people think it meant one thing when it meant entirely something else. It is very sad that so many people fell for it.
Of course you will try to claim otherwise as you were caught out by the fact that after the event so many people came to see it as the lie it was intended to be.
The fact that you Cameroon's are still in denial about this after all this time shows just how out of touch you are.
You are terribly desperate to keep repeating lies like this . The issue was quite clearly put forward at a time when there was total uncertainty about when the treaty might be ratified. Both the 2009 and 2010 manifestos were quite clear and not misleading at all. And as promised Cameron has made clear that he does not want ever closer union and is proposing a referendum just as soon as he can get a majority for it in parliament.
You need to keep peddling your rubbish to keep yourself happy in your fantasy... and before you start off with all your whinging again, its a tough job having to point it out and the nasty habits of the ting tong tendancy in UKIP, but someone's got to do it.
As Quincel showed earlier when he posted the actual Cameron quote, your position and that of the Cameroons in general on the question of Lisbon is intellectually bankrupt.
How are your homophobic councillors doing by the way? Still hoping colleagues die of Aids?
All of 3 of tonight's polls have one thing in common, LD's polling 6&7, LD's are still slowly digging lower.
You wouldn't think it possible for them to go lower.
But apparently it is.
Actually they have picked up a bit, at the moment they are averaging just under 8, a couple of weeks ago it was just over 7.5%. UKIP have fallen back from about 15.5% to 14% but seem to be moving up a bit again. The Labour lead did stretch to over 4 but is now back to just over 3.5%
(based on the unscientific method of a spreadsheet which averages the polls over approximately the same time period as the graph on the Wikipedia polls page)
Well the three most recent polls (tonight) have them 6-7.
At what stage do they cut and run?
There is a great scene in The Great Race where Tony Curtis, when marooned on an iceberg with his opponent Jack Lemmon, tells Lemmon not to panic. Lemmon responds "I'm not panicking. But when the water reaches my bottom lip I'm sure as hell going to do something...."
Thanks for all the UKIP supporters for explaining their Cameron hatred. I found it genuinely interesting. Although as someone inherently distrustful of government and those who run it, I find it difficult to get that het up over the slipperiness of one particular politician. That's the difference between me and you big-government/utopian types, I guess. (And, of course, Farage is currently the most untested politician in Britain, which does give his supporters the luxury of imposing highly exacting standards on everyone else.)
You can''t help trying to stereotype people into your image of your opponents and thats why the Tories are going to get well and truly beaten.
Thanks for all the UKIP supporters for explaining their Cameron hatred. I found it genuinely interesting. Although as someone inherently distrustful of government and those who run it, I find it difficult to get that het up over the slipperiness of one particular politician. That's the difference between me and you big-government/utopian types, I guess. (And, of course, Farage is currently the most untested politician in Britain, which does give his supporters the luxury of imposing highly exacting standards on everyone else.)
You can''t help trying to stereotype people into your image of your opponents and thats why the Tories are going to get well and truly beaten.
I disagree. I think Stark is absolutely right on this. We all hope that Farage will be different but until he is actually there helping to make the decisions we really have very little idea of what sort of person he would be.
I say that as someone who hasa met him and like him personally very much. But I would probably have said the same of Cameron if I had met him pre-2007.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Grow up once and for all TSE.
What I said was that I believe in years to come there is a strong chance that Sharia Law will be forced upon this country, one other poster has said he can see major violence here, all I said was if that occurs people will need to decide which side they are on.
Actually, while you have childishly raised it once again, if Sharia Law is forcibly opposed on us will you oppose it?
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Sadly it seems there are parts of this country where Muslims do have to choose which side they are on.
What is clear from all tonight's polls is Labour has got zero bounce from its last pre-election conference. Although it has started badly, we will see if the Tories can get one from theirs! Cameron is still a far better speaker than Miliband
Agreed. A pretty dire return for Labour from its conference. That said many supporters will admit to being slightly relieved the polling didn't collapse - so bad was the coverage of the conference.
I'm not sure, however, that Cam is a better speaker. I think both are decent speakers.
But Ed had a bad day at the office at a very bad time.
I am not a socialist or remotely agreeable to anything Miliband or Balls says, so its hard to jusdge his 'speaking'. I find it hard to believe that his own party are enthused by him personally but they know that he will deliver socialism. Miliband is afraid to speak economic facts of life, but since when did that ever stop a labour leader peddling socialism?
All of 3 of tonight's polls have one thing in common, LD's polling 6&7, LD's are still slowly digging lower.
You wouldn't think it possible for them to go lower.
But apparently it is.
Actually they have picked up a bit, at the moment they are averaging just under 8, a couple of weeks ago it was just over 7.5%. UKIP have fallen back from about 15.5% to 14% but seem to be moving up a bit again. The Labour lead did stretch to over 4 but is now back to just over 3.5%
(based on the unscientific method of a spreadsheet which averages the polls over approximately the same time period as the graph on the Wikipedia polls page)
Well the three most recent polls (tonight) have them 6-7.
At what stage do they cut and run?
There is a great scene in The Great Race where Tony Curtis, when marooned on an iceberg with his opponent Jack Lemmon, tells Lemmon not to panic. Lemmon responds "I'm not panicking. But when the water reaches my bottom lip I'm sure as hell going to do something...."
Close to being my all time favourite film.. after Casablanca and Blade Runner.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Grow up once and for all TSE.
What I said was that I believe in years to come there is a strong chance that Sharia Law will be forced upon this country, one other poster has said he can see major violence here, all I said was if that occurs people will need to decide which side they are on.
Actually, while you have childishly raised it once again, if Sharia Law is forcibly opposed on us will you oppose it?
No, you were exposed for the bigot you are that night, Mr The EDL are the voice of reason.
I said that night, I've always opposed Sharia Law, perhaps you'll finally understand that.
All of 3 of tonight's polls have one thing in common, LD's polling 6&7, LD's are still slowly digging lower.
You wouldn't think it possible for them to go lower.
But apparently it is.
Actually they have picked up a bit, at the moment they are averaging just under 8, a couple of weeks ago it was just over 7.5%. UKIP have fallen back from about 15.5% to 14% but seem to be moving up a bit again. The Labour lead did stretch to over 4 but is now back to just over 3.5%
(based on the unscientific method of a spreadsheet which averages the polls over approximately the same time period as the graph on the Wikipedia polls page)
Well the three most recent polls (tonight) have them 6-7.
At what stage do they cut and run?
There is a great scene in The Great Race where Tony Curtis, when marooned on an iceberg with his opponent Jack Lemmon, tells Lemmon not to panic. Lemmon responds "I'm not panicking. But when the water reaches my bottom lip I'm sure as hell going to do something...."
The political party accounts released this year showed the LDs actually increasing their revenue 2012: £6 million > 2013: £7.3 million.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Sadly it seems there are parts of this country where Muslims do have to choose which side they are on.
Not to mention Catholics and Protestants. The recent indyref opened that one up.
The problem is the Tories despise them. Well, so do the LDs and Labour. Not yet sure about UKIP.
No, the Tories don't. As a rule, Tories don't despise anyone.
The metropolitan elite that has temporarily captured our party may do, however...
The deeply frustrating thing is that UKIP has a good deal of sensible policies (as well as some very stupid ones) and clearly connect with many of the disenfranchised voters in a way the mainstream parties do not.
But while they have such a lightweight as leader and are so many of their supporters are intolerant towards their fellow citizens (I'm not suggesting this is necessarily party policy, although Farage has indulged in dog whistling from time to time) they are unsupportable as the next government.
The only thing worse than Miliband as PM would be Farage having any senior role in the executive.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Sadly it seems there are parts of this country where Muslims do have to choose which side they are on.
Well I live in Hope, well I live in Dore, which ain't that far from Hope.
Important not to over react to the events of today. Yes, this is a setback for the Tories. But it's not terminal for their chances in 2015.
There probably will be a further defection on Wednesday. But that'll probably be it. It's clear UKIP haven't been able to convince anyone else to jump ship, and the window for by-elections before the general election is rapidly closing. Any further defectors will have to either be those standing down in 2015, or those gambling on winning in the general.
Farage's strategy is clear: he wants a cadre of MPs to be able to make a watertight case for his inclusion in the debates next year. He then hopes to leverage that profile to win a dozen or so MPs in the election itself, and hold the balance of power in a hung parliament.
The trouble is that Farage won't be one of the (three max) UKIP MPs next year. He probably will get some sort of national stage, but not on a level pegging with Ed Miliband and Cameron.
I do expect him to win several MPs next year (probably 6-7 MPs) but in the key marginals it will be a straight Con-Lab fight where UKIP haven't established themselves. The data and polling above supports that: it is a close race and a choice between the lesser of two evils.
A Conservative minority government is still a strong possibility.
Really? Hasn't there been very little Lab-Con or Con-Lab switching? In which case the winner is who can grow on 2010, or if the gap with a Con lead can be retained. The Tories will not be growing on 2010, not with UKIP eating into their support and some measure of those displeased with the government at the least staying home, and even a narrow Tory lead results in Labour being in the driving seat.
The key data for me is that voters in the key marginals prefer Cameron to Miliband as PM 58%-31% (Ashcroft) and no opposition has ever won an election that far behind on leadership, and the economy. 90% of Conservative defectors to UKIP prefer Cameron as PM.
I expect the results of the 2015 general election to be highly balkanised. Both the SNP and UKIP will make gains, Labour will pick up some seats from the Lib Dems, and probably do well in London. The Tories will gain a few from the Lib Dems, and lose some to UKIP. I don't think they will lose that many to Labour, though.
In the highly targeted straight Con-Lab fights in the key marginals floating voters will pluck for the least worse option and, on the key indicators we have, that will be Cameron.
All of 3 of tonight's polls have one thing in common, LD's polling 6&7, LD's are still slowly digging lower.
You wouldn't think it possible for them to go lower.
But apparently it is.
Actually they have picked up a bit, at the moment they are averaging just under 8, a couple of weeks ago it was just over 7.5%. UKIP have fallen back from about 15.5% to 14% but seem to be moving up a bit again. The Labour lead did stretch to over 4 but is now back to just over 3.5%
(based on the unscientific method of a spreadsheet which averages the polls over approximately the same time period as the graph on the Wikipedia polls page)
Well the three most recent polls (tonight) have them 6-7.
At what stage do they cut and run?
There is a great scene in The Great Race where Tony Curtis, when marooned on an iceberg with his opponent Jack Lemmon, tells Lemmon not to panic. Lemmon responds "I'm not panicking. But when the water reaches my bottom lip I'm sure as hell going to do something...."
Close to being my all time favourite film.. after Casablanca and Blade Runner.
As I have said before, we would get on well. Agreeing on social issues and cinema, but nothing on economics.
"the criticism of Cameron is hysteric baloney used by people who are fundamentally cowards, bigots and cowardly bigots, exploiting dark fears for their own nefarious ends."
Got that folks? Any criticism of the Dear Leader makes you a cowardly bigot out for your own nefarious ends and exploiting dark fears as you do so.
Similar views have been expressed many many times on Coffee House by a particularly nasty little troll on there but as they have been repeated so often the regulars on their treat him with the utter contempt he deserves. In between telling everyone how Tory backbenchers are thick and how UKIP supporters are evil bigots he then expects the evil bigots to vote for the thick tory backbenchers too save him from the even more evil Labour Party.
You couldn't make it up that its that hysterically ridiculous...
All of 3 of tonight's polls have one thing in common, LD's polling 6&7, LD's are still slowly digging lower.
You wouldn't think it possible for them to go lower.
But apparently it is.
Actually they have picked up a bit, at the moment they are averaging just under 8, a couple of weeks ago it was just over 7.5%. UKIP have fallen back from about 15.5% to 14% but seem to be moving up a bit again. The Labour lead did stretch to over 4 but is now back to just over 3.5%
(based on the unscientific method of a spreadsheet which averages the polls over approximately the same time period as the graph on the Wikipedia polls page)
Well the three most recent polls (tonight) have them 6-7.
At what stage do they cut and run?
There is a great scene in The Great Race where Tony Curtis, when marooned on an iceberg with his opponent Jack Lemmon, tells Lemmon not to panic. Lemmon responds "I'm not panicking. But when the water reaches my bottom lip I'm sure as hell going to do something...."
Close to being my all time favourite film.. after Casablanca and Blade Runner.
As I have said before, we would get on well. Agreeing on social issues and cinema, but nothing on economics.
Casablanca is my favourite film.
My business partner and I have exactly that relationship, agreeing on almost everything except economic/size of state issues. It actually works very well :-)
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Grow up once and for all TSE.
What I said was that I believe in years to come there is a strong chance that Sharia Law will be forced upon this country, one other poster has said he can see major violence here, all I said was if that occurs people will need to decide which side they are on.
Actually, while you have childishly raised it once again, if Sharia Law is forcibly opposed on us will you oppose it?
How. Supply your scenario. You might advise us just what sharia law is. Is it like the Code of Canon Law or the Ecclesiastical Courts. Its worth asking don't you think.
Hopefully in an ideal world the defections can help complete Cameron's modernisation project in the same way as Blair moved Labour on from the far left. It will be a shame to see Labour return to power next year if they do but hopefully then a socially liberal and sensible Conservative Party can return at the following election.
The problem is the Tories despise them. Well, so do the LDs and Labour. Not yet sure about UKIP.
No, the Tories don't. As a rule, Tories don't despise anyone.
The metropolitan elite that has temporarily captured our party may do, however...
The deeply frustrating thing is that UKIP has a good deal of sensible policies (as well as some very stupid ones) and clearly connect with many of the disenfranchised voters in a way the mainstream parties do not.
But while they have such a lightweight as leader and are so many of their supporters are intolerant towards their fellow citizens (I'm not suggesting this is necessarily party policy, although Farage has indulged in dog whistling from time to time) they are unsupportable as the next government.
The only thing worse than Miliband as PM would be Farage having any senior role in the executive.
You are calling Farage a lightweight with Cameron, Clegg and Milliband heading up the establishment parties? The only thing that makes Cameron a heavyweight is his ever expanding girth and nothing could make the other two anything but featherweights.
As for intolerance its not Kippers going round accusing people who they have no knowledge of being swivel-eyed nutters, fruitcakes and closet racists. You Tories really are priceless. You need to take a long long look in the mirror......
Hopefully in an ideal world the defections can help complete Cameron's modernisation project in the same way as Blair moved Labour on from the far left. It will be a shame to see Labour return to power next year if they do but hopefully then a socially liberal and sensible Conservative Party can return at the following election.
Given that the defections so far have been of two MPs generally considered to be socially liberal and radical in their views of government reform I fail to see how you can reach that conclusion.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Sadly it seems there are parts of this country where Muslims do have to choose which side they are on.
Well I live in Hope, well I live in Dore, which ain't that far from Hope.
Co Durham has a Pity Me. It's near No Place (and Quebec).
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Sadly it seems there are parts of this country where Muslims do have to choose which side they are on.
Well I live in Hope, well I live in Dore, which ain't that far from Hope.
Co Durham has a Pity Me. It's near No Place (and Quebec).
Casino The UK has the fastest growth in the G7 I doubt it would be a Labour walkover, though you are right that Cameron polls ahead of his party, Miliband behind his
All of 3 of tonight's polls have one thing in common, LD's polling 6&7, LD's are still slowly digging lower.
You wouldn't think it possible for them to go lower.
But apparently it is.
Actually they have picked up a bit, at the moment they are averaging just under 8, a couple of weeks ago it was just over 7.5%. UKIP have fallen back from about 15.5% to 14% but seem to be moving up a bit again. The Labour lead did stretch to over 4 but is now back to just over 3.5%
(based on the unscientific method of a spreadsheet which averages the polls over approximately the same time period as the graph on the Wikipedia polls page)
Well the three most recent polls (tonight) have them 6-7.
they are getting 9s and 10s with the likes of Ashcroft, Populus and ICM.
Miserable day for Cameron. I'd like to shed Crocodile Tears, but hey, I'm sure the PB Tories and AudreyAvery will find reasons why it's bad for Ed!
It's 50/50 whether the morning thread is going to be an Ed is crap thread.
C'mon, you know it's true: you feel it. Lemme at him.
I write Ed is crap threads, I get criticised, I write Ed is not crap threads, I get criticised.
Is a no win scenario.
Serves you right. Weeks and weeks ago you promised us a Cameron Is Crap thread, but you have never delivered and I laid in stocks of snacks and beer in anticipation.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Sadly it seems there are parts of this country where Muslims do have to choose which side they are on.
Well I live in Hope, well I live in Dore, which ain't that far from Hope.
Co Durham has a Pity Me. It's near No Place (and Quebec).
Hopefully in an ideal world the defections can help complete Cameron's modernisation project in the same way as Blair moved Labour on from the far left. It will be a shame to see Labour return to power next year if they do but hopefully then a socially liberal and sensible Conservative Party can return at the following election.
You do realise that Brown virtually completely purged, disgraced or nullified the Blairites so now they have absolutely no influence on the Labour Party don't you? That is of course after Labour had lost 4 million votes with another million on the way out of the door.
Oh and of course Blair's Clause IV moment was the moment when Labour deserted the WWC who now they are increasingly getting in a panic over seeing as their votes are disappearing off to UKIP.
Still if you do still fancy an Oozlum Bird strategy by all means go for it!
PS And you must be about the only person in the UK who hasn't read various commentators who having watched Cameron split the centre right have declared his modernisation project a complete failure. Haven't you noticed no one talks about it anymore. Its followed the Big Society into the lists of Dave's bad ideas.
Hopefully in an ideal world the defections can help complete Cameron's modernisation project in the same way as Blair moved Labour on from the far left. It will be a shame to see Labour return to power next year if they do but hopefully then a socially liberal and sensible Conservative Party can return at the following election.
Given that the defections so far have been of two MPs generally considered to be socially liberal and radical in their views of government reform I fail to see how you can reach that conclusion.
I didn't say it was inevitable I said it was wishful thinking. The hard right especially voters are the ones switching more it seems to me hence the ones I personally would consider bigoted over Eg gay marriage are switching. That leaves the more what I consider to be mainstream centre right behind.
All of 3 of tonight's polls have one thing in common, LD's polling 6&7, LD's are still slowly digging lower.
You wouldn't think it possible for them to go lower.
But apparently it is.
Actually they have picked up a bit, at the moment they are averaging just under 8, a couple of weeks ago it was just over 7.5%. UKIP have fallen back from about 15.5% to 14% but seem to be moving up a bit again. The Labour lead did stretch to over 4 but is now back to just over 3.5%
(based on the unscientific method of a spreadsheet which averages the polls over approximately the same time period as the graph on the Wikipedia polls page)
Well the three most recent polls (tonight) have them 6-7.
they are getting 9s and 10s with the likes of Ashcroft, Populus and ICM.
No doubt they will be on 19 with the Good Lord next week John
Your comment on a "Cast Iron Promise" is either: (a) deliberately misremembering, (b) mischievously misremembering, or (c) actually misremembering. Which is it?
There was no point holding a Ref after Brown snuck in and already signed it, and Cameron never promised to do so.
....
You are terribly desperate to keep repeating lies like this . The issue was quite clearly put forward at a time when there was total uncertainty about when the treaty might be ratified. Both the 2009 and 2010 manifestos were quite clear and not misleading at all. And as promised Cameron has made clear that he does not want ever closer union and is proposing a referendum just as soon as he can get a majority for it in parliament.
You need to keep peddling your rubbish to keep yourself happy in your fantasy... and before you start off with all your whinging again, its a tough job having to point it out and the nasty habits of the ting tong tendancy in UKIP, but someone's got to do it.
As Quincel showed earlier when he posted the actual Cameron quote, your position and that of the Cameroons in general on the question of Lisbon is intellectually bankrupt.
How are your homophobic councillors doing by the way? Still hoping colleagues die of Aids?
"the criticism of Cameron is hysteric baloney used by people who are fundamentally cowards, bigots and cowardly bigots, exploiting dark fears for their own nefarious ends."
Got that folks? Any criticism of the Dear Leader makes you a cowardly bigot out for your own nefarious ends and exploiting dark fears as you do so.
Its the hate filled sense of privileged entitlement which has been the revelation to me.
Anyone is entitled to criticise Cameron and he and all politicians are deserving of criticism. Thats their job - to make the inevitable mistakes that the rest of us could never face up to.
But despite your desperate try to switch it all around it was not me who said that, 'I would not piss in Cameron's ear if his brains were on fire'.
Go lecture someone else about 'hate filled' thank you very much. The sensitivity of UKIPers to any criticism of poor Farage is pathetic to behold. If I did not know any better I would say all they want is 15 minutes of fame.
RT Carswell voted against gay marriage and is sceptical of climate change, Reckless wants a much tougher line on immigration, they are not social liberals
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Sadly it seems there are parts of this country where Muslims do have to choose which side they are on.
Well I live in Hope, well I live in Dore, which ain't that far from Hope.
Hopefully in an ideal world the defections can help complete Cameron's modernisation project in the same way as Blair moved Labour on from the far left. It will be a shame to see Labour return to power next year if they do but hopefully then a socially liberal and sensible Conservative Party can return at the following election.
You do realise that Brown virtually completely purged, disgraced or nullified the Blairites so now they have absolutely no influence on the Labour Party don't you? That is of course after Labour had lost 4 million votes with another million on the way out of the door.
Oh and of course Blair's Clause IV moment was the moment when Labour deserted the WWC who now they are increasingly getting in a panic over seeing as their votes are disappearing off to UKIP.
Still if you do still fancy an Oozlum Bird strategy by all means go for it!
You do realise I abhor Labour and all they stand for and I think Brown is one of the worst leaders ever. He did so after Blair won 13 years of power.
If they are still polling 6pts by December they might as well cut and run on some point of principle, hoping for a bounce.
6%
FFS. I voted for them in 2010.
I don't know. Ashdown was a man mountain compared to our current crop - just look at the Ed is Crap/Dave is Crap stuff on here. The current trio make Neil, Paddy and John look like a trio of giants!
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Grow up once and for all TSE.
What I said was that I believe in years to come there is a strong chance that Sharia Law will be forced upon this country, one other poster has said he can see major violence here, all I said was if that occurs people will need to decide which side they are on.
Actually, while you have childishly raised it once again, if Sharia Law is forcibly opposed on us will you oppose it?
No, you were exposed for the bigot you are that night, Mr The EDL are the voice of reason.
I said that night, I've always opposed Sharia Law, perhaps you'll finally understand that.
If you did I missed it and apologise for that.
I also apologized for my terminology, and have done numerous times since though you have chosen to ignore it, which says more about you than me.
However as you obviously know and fail to acknowledge is that the point I was making was that the EDL and the loathsome Griffin were 100% correct about the disgusting grooming and rape of young white girls.
I am not a bigot I am a realist, the fact you ignored the point I was making and played the race card ( though to be fair I made it easy for you) seems to indicate you were diverting attention from the point I was hamfistedly trying to make.
Hopefully in an ideal world the defections can help complete Cameron's modernisation project in the same way as Blair moved Labour on from the far left. It will be a shame to see Labour return to power next year if they do but hopefully then a socially liberal and sensible Conservative Party can return at the following election.
Given that the defections so far have been of two MPs generally considered to be socially liberal and radical in their views of government reform I fail to see how you can reach that conclusion.
I didn't say it was inevitable I said it was wishful thinking. The hard right especially voters are the ones switching more it seems to me hence the ones I personally would consider bigoted over Eg gay marriage are switching. That leaves the more what I consider to be mainstream centre right behind.
I know others will disagree.
Apologies I thought you were talking about the actual MP defections. I would have thought that the two who have defected so far would not have been the ones you would have wished to see go given their reforming views.
I am actually very glad that some of the old guard bigots who still exist on the Tory back benches have not chosen to be the ones to jump.
Comments
But apparently it is.
From the Cameron interview with the Sunday Times
But, he confesses, he has already had cause to contemplate his political mortality, admitting that he wanted to resign if Scotland had voted for independence.
He said: “I thought about it a lot. Emotionally I would have been very winded and wounded,” he said. “I thought in many ways that is what I would want to do.”
.....In the end, Cameron says he would have stayed on. “I just don’t think [resigning is] the right thing to do. The job of the United Kingdom prime minister, whatever the outcome, would be to knuckle down and get on with the job. I think it would not have been doing your duty.”
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article1464734.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_09_27
It was hilarious. We'd spent lunchtime at Petreus and popped into Claridges for fancy cakes. I was merely being nice to a glum looking patron when I was intercepted.
My host was appalled. It really made my day and I still laugh like a drain about it.
PS A friend of mine was mates with the maitre'd at The Ivy - who was called Dermot...
If they are still polling 6pts by December they might as well cut and run on some point of principle, hoping for a bounce.
6%
FFS. I voted for them in 2010.
The reality that is facing us all is that the nationalists - SNP, UKIP, Plaid - are probably driving the big 3 all down towards record lows.
None of them are popular.
Then there's Cameron lying in a PPB "we are paying down Britain's debts".
One thing is for certain, it wont be as cozy as his chats with Ed.
How hard can it be to really get your head down for five years, most of us have done it without the huge rewards that go with it.
A load of rich Tories. A load of rich Tories who don't understand people or indeed politics.
Got that folks? Any criticism of the Dear Leader makes you a cowardly bigot out for your own nefarious ends and exploiting dark fears as you do so.
http://littlebritain.wikia.com/wiki/Dudley_and_Ting_Tong
Both the 2009 and 2010 manifestos were quite clear and not misleading at all.
And as promised Cameron has made clear that he does not want ever closer union and is proposing a referendum just as soon as he can get a majority for it in parliament.
You need to keep peddling your rubbish to keep yourself happy in your fantasy... and before you start off with all your whinging again, its a tough job having to point it out and the nasty habits of the ting tong tendancy in UKIP, but someone's got to do it.
Would that be classed as "blue on blue"??
(based on the unscientific method of a spreadsheet which averages the polls over approximately the same time period as the graph on the Wikipedia polls page)
On your other point I have no illusions that Farage will necessarily turn out to be any better. All I do know is that at the moment he is at least taking the fight to the established parties on issues I agree with and that there is some chance, however small, that we will see a genuine small state/ Libertarian party emerge from this transitional phase.
If I am being honest I think that the current direction of the party mitigates against that but at the same time the arrival of people like Carswell and Reckless might help my side.
But one thing you can be sure of is that unlike a lot of the Tories on here if and when UKIP do decide to be just like any other party and abandon the core principles then I will no longer be a member or supporter.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ukipwebmaster/videos
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
How are your homophobic councillors doing by the way? Still hoping colleagues die of Aids?
At what stage do they cut and run?
There is a great scene in The Great Race where Tony Curtis, when marooned on an iceberg with his opponent Jack Lemmon, tells Lemmon not to panic. Lemmon responds "I'm not panicking. But when the water reaches my bottom lip I'm sure as hell going to do something...."
I say that as someone who hasa met him and like him personally very much. But I would probably have said the same of Cameron if I had met him pre-2007.
Healthy skepticism of politicians is a necessity.
What I said was that I believe in years to come there is a strong chance that Sharia Law will be forced upon this country, one other poster has said he can see major violence here, all I said was if that occurs people will need to decide which side they are on.
Actually, while you have childishly raised it once again, if Sharia Law is forcibly opposed on us will you oppose it?
I said that night, I've always opposed Sharia Law, perhaps you'll finally understand that.
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/political-parties-annual-accounts/details-of-accounts
Is a no win scenario.
The problem is the Tories despise them. Well, so do the LDs and Labour. Not yet sure about UKIP.
No, the Tories don't. As a rule, Tories don't despise anyone.
The metropolitan elite that has temporarily captured our party may do, however...
The deeply frustrating thing is that UKIP has a good deal of sensible policies (as well as some very stupid ones) and clearly connect with many of the disenfranchised voters in a way the mainstream parties do not.
But while they have such a lightweight as leader and are so many of their supporters are intolerant towards their fellow citizens (I'm not suggesting this is necessarily party policy, although Farage has indulged in dog whistling from time to time) they are unsupportable as the next government.
The only thing worse than Miliband as PM would be Farage having any senior role in the executive.
Do a thread on AV.
I expect the results of the 2015 general election to be highly balkanised. Both the SNP and UKIP will make gains, Labour will pick up some seats from the Lib Dems, and probably do well in London. The Tories will gain a few from the Lib Dems, and lose some to UKIP. I don't think they will lose that many to Labour, though.
In the highly targeted straight Con-Lab fights in the key marginals floating voters will pluck for the least worse option and, on the key indicators we have, that will be Cameron.
Casablanca is my favourite film.
You couldn't make it up that its that hysterically ridiculous...
It has been a very bad day for the Tories already so all I shall spare the detail and just leave it at EICIPM*6
Is this why more people didn't answer Dave's call to arms on the Big Society?
You do some voluntary work to help out others, and they either thanklessly take it all for granted or just snipe at you.
I'm amused by the attacks, at various stages I've been called a deluded Labour supporter, or a deluded Lib Dem, a Cybernat, a Farage fan boy.
The high point is when other journalists use my articles.
News night for example this week, asked the question I posed on Monday, will Labour's brand bring them power.
As for intolerance its not Kippers going round accusing people who they have no knowledge of being swivel-eyed nutters, fruitcakes and closet racists. You Tories really are priceless. You need to take a long long look in the mirror......
If Ed was less crap and incompetent, and Dave less statesmanlike and 'credible', it would be a Labour walkover.
Three contiguous constituencies. A bridgehead.
A UKIP Riviera in Kent...
Wilsford Cum Lake being one of the best.
Oh and of course Blair's Clause IV moment was the moment when Labour deserted the WWC who now they are increasingly getting in a panic over seeing as their votes are disappearing off to UKIP.
Still if you do still fancy an Oozlum Bird strategy by all means go for it!
PS And you must be about the only person in the UK who hasn't read various commentators who having watched Cameron split the centre right have declared his modernisation project a complete failure. Haven't you noticed no one talks about it anymore. Its followed the Big Society into the lists of Dave's bad ideas.
I know others will disagree.
But despite your desperate try to switch it all around it was not me who said that, 'I would not piss in Cameron's ear if his brains were on fire'.
Go lecture someone else about 'hate filled' thank you very much.
The sensitivity of UKIPers to any criticism of poor Farage is pathetic to behold. If I did not know any better I would say all they want is 15 minutes of fame.
Is my sense of humour here as perverse as it sounds?!
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
...
There it is that face of the nasty party alive and well!
Have we another Mr Ting Tong?
You do know that the former chief Cameroon cheerleader here referred to Muslims as 'ragheads' ?
To be fair I've said worse things about Muslims.
Fortunately Avery never told me, as a Muslim to choose which side I am on as one Kipper did here
Grow up once and for all TSE.
What I said was that I believe in years to come there is a strong chance that Sharia Law will be forced upon this country, one other poster has said he can see major violence here, all I said was if that occurs people will need to decide which side they are on.
Actually, while you have childishly raised it once again, if Sharia Law is forcibly opposed on us will you oppose it?
No, you were exposed for the bigot you are that night, Mr The EDL are the voice of reason.
I said that night, I've always opposed Sharia Law, perhaps you'll finally understand that.
If you did I missed it and apologise for that.
I also apologized for my terminology, and have done numerous times since though you have chosen to ignore it, which says more about you than me.
However as you obviously know and fail to acknowledge is that the point I was making was that the EDL and the loathsome Griffin were 100% correct about the disgusting grooming and rape of young white girls.
I am not a bigot I am a realist, the fact you ignored the point I was making and played the race card ( though to be fair I made it easy for you) seems to indicate you were diverting attention from the point I was hamfistedly trying to make.
I am actually very glad that some of the old guard bigots who still exist on the Tory back benches have not chosen to be the ones to jump.