Just checking in after a day of DIY and golf. No libertarian, left or right, should take any pleasure from this purile sting by the papers. Live and let live.
Could this be the Mirror's equivalent to Gordon's letter-of-condolence brouhaha by The Sun? Gordon gained a lot of sympathy from that (even with me) and Labour's fortunes just started to turn thereafter. Bad news for Ed Miliband?
In a way, I hope so. But I doubt it because the public is still ludicrously judgmental on this stuff.
I's be betting against Reckless holding his seat. Carswell seems to generate warmth and is principled. Reckless's most famous moment was being too hammered to vote on the budget when he couldn't open the door into Strangers bar and according to a story I heard ended up in Kent rather than London afterwards because the taxi driver took him to the wrong house.
He did increase his majority by 6% in 2010 though.
It's a tough one to price up. I'd guess the bookies would probably look at the Clacton odds as a guide - they'll be expecting most punters to bet on UKIP and set the price accordingly.
A random stab in the dark guess at the bookies opening offer would be something like;
1/3 UKIP 3/1 Con 8/1 Lab
Jesus man! Just offer some odds without the disclaimers!!
The Tories will be forced to do an electoral pact with UKIP. Simple as. Either now (unlikely) or in 2020.
All the Tories who affect to be scandalised by this need to grow up.
Any electoral pact with UKIP will cost the Tories more voters than it gains.
Utter nonsense. Tories will vote for Tories, kippers will vote for kippers, each side will hold noses and agree to disagree. This is how Coalitions work. Britain is headed for European style government, where "decent" right wing parties govern with the aid of unsavoury hard-right parties.
1) You can't guarantee Kippers will follow orders (see Wells 2010 as an example)
2) I know of several Tories, activists, MPs, members, who will not remain part of the party, if we form a pact with UKIP, in its current form.
Re 1. irrelevant
Re 2. who cares. Power is power. The British people already want a rightwing government - trouble is, some want Tories, some want UKIP. After 5 years of utterly feeble Milibandism (an exact copy of Hollande) we will get a Tory-UKIP Coalition government that delivers what the votets request.
Effete Tories who would rather remain in Opposition FOREVER, than contemplate this, will either leave, or wise up.
1) Is very relevant
2) For better part of two decades, a significant strand of the Tory party, usually on the socially conservative right wing of the party have preferred the purity of opposition to power.
1. isn't
2. they'll get over it, after 5 years of Miliband
1) Oh yes it is.
2) No they won't
What happened to the Progressive Canadian Party (the Progressive Conservatives who couldn't stomach merger with Reform?)
Come the day, most Conservatives and UKIP will collaborate with each other.
It was a notional majority. In 2005 Labour won the old version of the seat. Bob Marshall Andrews beat him by 210 votes*. Boundary changes were slightly favourable for Conservatives and therefor the notionals had them 1% ahead instead of 0.5 behind
*it was the GE night when BMA announced his defeat blaming Blair only to win the seat 2 hours later. IIRC he refused to shake Reckless's hand because of something that was written into a Con leaflet
The Tories will be forced to do an electoral pact with UKIP. Simple as. Either now (unlikely) or in 2020.
All the Tories who affect to be scandalised by this need to grow up.
Any electoral pact with UKIP will cost the Tories more voters than it gains.
Utter nonsense. Tories will vote for Tories, kippers will vote for kippers, each side will hold noses and agree to disagree. This is how Coalitions work. Britain is headed for European style government, where "decent" right wing parties govern with the aid of unsavoury hard-right parties.
1) You can't guarantee Kippers will follow orders (see Wells 2010 as an example)
2) I know of several Tories, activists, MPs, members, who will not remain part of the party, if we form a pact with UKIP, in its current form.
Re 1. irrelevant
Re 2. who cares. Power is power. The British people already want a rightwing government - trouble is, some want Tories, some want UKIP. After 5 years of utterly feeble Milibandism (an exact copy of Hollande) we will get a Tory-UKIP Coalition government that delivers what the votets request.
Effete Tories who would rather remain in Opposition FOREVER, than contemplate this, will either leave, or wise up.
1) Is very relevant
2) For better part of two decades, a significant strand of the Tory party, usually on the socially conservative right wing of the party have preferred the purity of opposition to power.
1. isn't
2. they'll get over it, after 5 years of Miliband
1) Oh yes it is.
2) No they won't
What happened to the Progressive Canadian Party (the Progressive Conservatives who couldn't stomach merger with Reform?)
Come the day, most Conservatives and UKIP will collaborate with each other.
Labour got a margin of error bounce following a conference when they release a load of populist policies that will unravel.
Has Labour even had a conference bounce this year? So far everything has been within MOE I think?
Well the -3 and + 3 swings do not suggest a bounce. I do not see the tory party changing. It would just be a gift to labour and LDs if it swing knee jerk to the right and the tory party is and has been a centrist party. Cameron has already announced his opposition to ever closer union in a perfectly viable wise and coherent speech. The issue is clear and the policy sound. But the EU is not a real issue with UKIP anymore. Its just base racism firmly centred on anti muslimism. It sees it can get votes there. It has to be left to do what it will and bring on what harm it will on our country.
The Tories will be forced to do an electoral pact with UKIP. Simple as. Either now (unlikely) or in 2020.
All the Tories who affect to be scandalised by this need to grow up.
Any electoral pact with UKIP will cost the Tories more voters than it gains.
Utter nonsense. Tories will vote for Tories, kippers will vote for kippers, each side will hold noses and agree to disagree. This is how Coalitions work. Britain is headed for European style government, where "decent" right wing parties govern with the aid of unsavoury hard-right parties.
I think its rather inaccurate to describe the Tories as 'hard right'.....
This demonstrates Cameron's biggest weaknesses: his laziness and his aloofness. He simply hasn't been bothered to do the kind of conciliatory listening to the concerns of his backbenchers that all successful leaders have to do. It's an object lesson in how important that kind of stuff is.
You really think the fruit loops are interested in listening? The EU is quickly dissappearing into the distance for UKIP. It has learned it can peddle a racist homophobic anti outsider agenda. I'm right wing but I'm not a bigot. The real issue is the parking of an underclass on benefits its the lack of preparation for work of our young. The issue of immigration is because of the success of our economy and the need to serve it and the unwillingness and unfitness of some Brits to take part. UKIP simply blame the hardworking Poles and smear everyone with a dark skin.
I am currently trying to work out if you have ever made a post on here that wasn't an ignorant bigoted smear. You really are a dinosaur.
I suppose we should be grateful. It is just this sort of moronic behaviour that drives more people out of the Tory party.
After a generation the Tories are finally paying the price for betraying Thatcher's legacy to aspiring blue collar workers. It does not surprise me that Essex and Kent are going purple first and quickest. Labour betrayed their own WWC vote too, bit handily have replaced the need for them with copious immigration.
Just what you need is a party that's more Tory than the Tories and it's called Ukip.
I find the Newmark "scandal" feeble. Couldn't he say he was doing his bit for the "cock-in-a-sock" campaign to raise awareness of male cancers but just forgot to put a sock on it?
I find the Newmark "scandal" feeble. Couldn't he say he was doing his bit for the "cock-in-a-sock" campaign to raise awareness of male cancers but just forgot to put a sock on it?
Not really, as any married man would tell you, your wife would never believe that.
It's up there with "I slipped and fell, penis first...."
This demonstrates Cameron's biggest weaknesses: his laziness and his aloofness. He simply hasn't been bothered to do the kind of conciliatory listening to the concerns of his backbenchers that all successful leaders have to do. It's an object lesson in how important that kind of stuff is.
He would not even listen to his own mother over gay marriage.Sinful.
So the England captain has had sex with a prostitute gran but a lower league minister has to resign for suggesting he will play away?
Is that what jokes about him and older ladies have been about on talk and game shows for years? I was never clear on that, but didn't care enough to find out.
Married father-of-five Brooks Newmark, 56, said he was “so sorry” after the investigation found he had contacted the freelance male reporter online before swapping sexually explicit images.
The new Minister for Civil Society, who co-founded the campaign group Women2Win, initiated a private message conversation on a social networking site and as part of a series of exchanges sent a graphic picture exposing himself while wearing a pair of paisley pyjamas
Rather dull by the standards of political sex scandals.
What is interesting is that it was clearly a setup. He thought he was sexting with a hot young FEMALE and it was actually an undercover MALE reporter.
Have the Mirror been on a fishing exercise looking to catch pervy old male politicians (given it is the Mirror, they would only set up Tories), or was there some specific intell on this guy.
If it was a fishing exercise, you have to think more than one MP, would get in involved in this, if they thought they could bonk a hot young reporter.
Another bullshit sting by the Mirror - the paper that got Will Straw to buy an eighth of weed to try to get into a hot girl's knickers. I despair if this is what sets the agenda these days. Hope this guy can save his family.
Yes that nasty old mirror making people take drugs and let their family down... If only there was such a thing as free will
After a generation the Tories are finally paying the price for betraying Thatcher's legacy to aspiring blue collar workers. It does not surprise me that Essex and Kent are going purple first and quickest. Labour betrayed their own WWC vote too, bit handily have replaced the need for them with copious immigration.
Just what you need is a party that's more Tory than the Tories and it's called Ukip.
And it appeals to the WWC, bit of a worry for you?
This demonstrates Cameron's biggest weaknesses: his laziness and his aloofness. He simply hasn't been bothered to do the kind of conciliatory listening to the concerns of his backbenchers that all successful leaders have to do. It's an object lesson in how important that kind of stuff is.
You really think the fruit loops are interested in listening? The EU is quickly dissappearing into the distance for UKIP. It has learned it can peddle a racist homophobic anti outsider agenda. I'm right wing but I'm not a bigot. The real issue is the parking of an underclass on benefits its the lack of preparation for work of our young. The issue of immigration is because of the success of our economy and the need to serve it and the unwillingness and unfitness of some Brits to take part. UKIP simply blame the hardworking Poles and smear everyone with a dark skin.
I am currently trying to work out if you have ever made a post on here that wasn't an ignorant bigoted smear. You really are a dinosaur.
I suppose we should be grateful. It is just this sort of moronic behaviour that drives more people out of the Tory party.
Oh so, I've invented the remarks by UKIPers have I? Shall i start calling you Mr Ting Tong - and that 'smear' was at one of the odious woman's own supporters! I think I know what UKIPO are all about nthank myou very much. i can be right wing but I amk not a bigot like some.
Shall I tell you what I want? Its not to have Miliband as PM. Its to have a sane broadchurch centre right tory party. One thats electable. What we have are thick tory backbenchers who endlessly shoot their own party in the foot and totally lose any opportunity to see any form of right wing govt or policy enacted by a tory govt.
You and people like you are meat and drink to Miliband. Useful idiots.
So the England captain has had sex with a prostitute gran but a lower league minister has to resign for suggesting he will play away?
Is that what jokes about him and older ladies have been about on talk and game shows for years? I was never clear on that, but didn't care enough to find out.
Back in 2004, he slept with a prostitute, who was, how can I say this would sounding a cad and bounder, erm, experienced.
This demonstrates Cameron's biggest weaknesses: his laziness and his aloofness. He simply hasn't been bothered to do the kind of conciliatory listening to the concerns of his backbenchers that all successful leaders have to do. It's an object lesson in how important that kind of stuff is.
You really think the fruit loops are interested in listening? The EU is quickly dissappearing into the distance for UKIP. It has learned it can peddle a racist homophobic anti outsider agenda. I'm right wing but I'm not a bigot. The real issue is the parking of an underclass on benefits its the lack of preparation for work of our young. The issue of immigration is because of the success of our economy and the need to serve it and the unwillingness and unfitness of some Brits to take part. UKIP simply blame the hardworking Poles and smear everyone with a dark skin.
I am currently trying to work out if you have ever made a post on here that wasn't an ignorant bigoted smear. You really are a dinosaur.
I suppose we should be grateful. It is just this sort of moronic behaviour that drives more people out of the Tory party.
Oh so, I've invented the remarks by UKIPers have I? Shall i start calling you Mr Ting Tong - and that 'smear' was at one of the odious woman's own supporters! I think I know what UKIPO are all about nthank myou very much. i can be right wing but I amk not a bigot like some.
Shall I tell you what I want? Its not to have Miliband as PM. Its to have a sane broadchurch centre right tory party. One thats electable. What we have are thick tory backbenchers who endlessly shoot their own party in the foot and totally lose any opportunity to see any form of right wing govt or policy enacted by a tory govt.
You and people like you are meat and drink to Miliband. Useful idiots.
Like I said, keep it up. It only helps drive more and more people out of the Tory party. Of course you will thrash around and blame everyone but yourselves when you are beaten, which is of course sad as it means you will never learn.
On the subject of bigots, a Tory party supporter has no right what so ever to criticise any other party as long as Ken 'with a bit of luck you'll get Aids' Gregory is still one of your councillors.Or maybe you think that homophobia is acceptable for Tory councillors?
Married father-of-five Brooks Newmark, 56, said he was “so sorry” after the investigation found he had contacted the freelance male reporter online before swapping sexually explicit images.
The new Minister for Civil Society, who co-founded the campaign group Women2Win, initiated a private message conversation on a social networking site and as part of a series of exchanges sent a graphic picture exposing himself while wearing a pair of paisley pyjamas
Rather dull by the standards of political sex scandals.
What is interesting is that it was clearly a setup. He thought he was sexting with a hot young FEMALE and it was actually an undercover MALE reporter.
Have the Mirror been on a fishing exercise looking to catch pervy old male politicians (given it is the Mirror, they would only set up Tories), or was there some specific intell on this guy.
If it was a fishing exercise, you have to think more than one MP, would get in involved in this, if they thought they could bonk a hot young reporter.
Another bullshit sting by the Mirror - the paper that got Will Straw to buy an eighth of weed to try to get into a hot girl's knickers. I despair if this is what sets the agenda these days. Hope this guy can save his family.
Yes that nasty old mirror making people take drugs and let their family down... If only there was such a thing as free will
Twentysomething buys sexy girl weed to impress her. What a shocker.
This demonstrates Cameron's biggest weaknesses: his laziness and his aloofness. He simply hasn't been bothered to do the kind of conciliatory listening to the concerns of his backbenchers that all successful leaders have to do. It's an object lesson in how important that kind of stuff is.
You really think the fruit loops are interested in listening? The EU is quickly dissappearing into the distance for UKIP. It has learned it can peddle a racist homophobic anti outsider agenda. I'm right wing but I'm not a bigot. The real issue is the parking of an underclass on benefits its the lack of preparation for work of our young. The issue of immigration is because of the success of our economy and the need to serve it and the unwillingness and unfitness of some Brits to take part. UKIP simply blame the hardworking Poles and smear everyone with a dark skin.
I am currently trying to work out if you have ever made a post on here that wasn't an ignorant bigoted smear. You really are a dinosaur.
I suppose we should be grateful. It is just this sort of moronic behaviour that drives more people out of the Tory party.
Oh so, I've invented the remarks by UKIPers have I? Shall i start calling you Mr Ting Tong - and that 'smear' was at one of the odious woman's own supporters! I think I know what UKIPO are all about nthank myou very much. i can be right wing but I amk not a bigot like some.
Shall I tell you what I want? Its not to have Miliband as PM. Its to have a sane broadchurch centre right tory party. One thats electable. What we have are thick tory backbenchers who endlessly shoot their own party in the foot and totally lose any opportunity to see any form of right wing govt or policy enacted by a tory govt.
You and people like you are meat and drink to Miliband. Useful idiots.
Like I said, keep it up. It only helps drive more and more people out of the Tory party. Of course you will thrash around and blame everyone but yourselves when you are beaten, which is of course sad as it means you will never learn.
On the subject of bigots, a Tory party supporter has no right what so ever to criticise any other party as long as Ken 'with a bit of luck you'll get Aids' Gregory is still one of your councillors.Or maybe you think that homophobia is acceptable for Tory councillors?
Your reward will be a decade of Milliband.
Most of the hardcore elderly Kippers will be six feet under the golf course by then.
TSE I thought at first you had morphed into OGH whose distaste for all things Tory is well recorded. Most voters wont pay any attention to today's fun and games.
If another MP defects s/he will feel obliged to resign and fight a by-election but if Dan Hannan resigns we just get another Tory MEP. If he doesn't resign and does defect, he will be no better than those former Tory MEPs who defected to the LibDems 2009-2014. Incidentally where are they now?
As for Comedy Resolutions side splitting poll, does anyone care what they say?
TSE I thought at first you had morphed into OGH whose distaste for all things Tory is well recorded. Most voters wont pay any attention to today's fun and games.
If another MP defects s/he will feel obliged to resign and fight a by-election but if Dan Hannan resigns we just get another Tory MEP. If he doesn't resign and does defect, he will be no better than those former Tory MEPs who defected to the LibDems 2009-2014. Incidentally where are they now?
Or the UKIP MEP who defected to the Tories and is still a Tory MEP?
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
TSE I thought at first you had morphed into OGH whose distaste for all things Tory is well recorded. Most voters wont pay any attention to today's fun and games.
If another MP defects s/he will feel obliged to resign and fight a by-election but if Dan Hannan resigns we just get another Tory MEP. If he doesn't resign and does defect, he will be no better than those former Tory MEPs who defected to the LibDems 2009-2014. Incidentally where are they now?
As for Comedy Resolutions side splitting poll, does anyone care what they say?
Mike has such a distaste for all things Tory that he leaves me in charge for nearly three weeks.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Most Kippers will tell you that there job isn't to prop up the Tory Party.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
One only has to see how Tory toxicity has poisoned the Libdem party to know to keep well away!
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Most Kippers will tell you that their job isn't to prop up the Tory Party.
Most of the hardcore elderly Kippers will be six feet under the golf course by then.
Nope that will be all the fault of the Tories
Once again since you seem to find this concept difficult to understand. Voters are abandoning the Tory party in droves not because of UKIP but because of what the Tories under Cameron have become.
They are becoming unelectable as a party and when they fail in 2015 that will be because of Cameron and his blind supporters.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Most Kippers will tell you that there job isn't to prop up the Tory Party.
It's to replace them.
We are the UK's oldest political party and will still be around long after Nigel's kippers have been eaten for breakfast by Gideon's pet cat.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
And here we see the pathology of the Tories. They're so angry when they are deprived of their perceived entitlement that they will put punishing the 'traitors' ahead of what's best for the country.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Most Kippers will tell you that there job isn't to prop up the Tory Party.
It's to replace them.
We are the UK's oldest political party and will still be around long after Nigel's kippers have been eaten for breakfast by Gideon's pet cat.
I believe there's still a few continuity-Liberal Party councillors around.
Most of the hardcore elderly Kippers will be six feet under the golf course by then.
Nope that will be all the fault of the Tories
Once again since you seem to find this concept difficult to understand. Voters are abandoning the Tory party in droves not because of UKIP but because of what the Tories under Cameron have become.
They are becoming unelectable as a party and when they fail in 2015 that will be because of Cameron and his blind supporters.
"Britain's public finances remain in an appalling state, partly because the coalition has acted like a Labour government in protecting so much spending from both the axe and, just as importantly, from reform. "
I well remember when Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler defected to the SDP and we remember what happened to him a few months later. I do at least give both Carswell and Reckless the credit for having the decency to stand down and fight a by-election.
Most of the hardcore elderly Kippers will be six feet under the golf course by then.
Nope that will be all the fault of the Tories
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about Miliband in No 10.
What's the plan - Kipper MPs propping up a minority Labour government in exchange for a referendum?! (Except Nigel's gone a bit cold on the EU - he hardly mentioned it in his speech)
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
And here we see the pathology of the Tories. They're so angry when they are deprived of their perceived entitlement that they will put punishing the 'traitors' ahead of what's best for the country.
These are not UKIP-elected MPs in a normal election.
They are Conservative MPs; supported by the party, and voted by people supporting the Conservative party; jumping ship as they perceive their own personal careers will (they hope) be better off by doing so.
Traitors, in the circumstances, seems a reasonable word to use.
They may well win in the current difficult circumstances. Heck, Miliband may win next year in the circumstances. None of that changes what they are.
I well remember when Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler defected to the SDP and we remember what happened to him a few months later. I do at least give both Carswell and Reckless the credit for having the decency to stand down and fight a by-election.
They are learning from others' mistakes. Had the 1981 defectors stood in by-elections they mostly would have won, and had much better chances of holding their seats in 1983...
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Political treachery is making a cast iron guarantee and then breaking it.
Kippers have long memories too and we haven't forgotten or forgiven.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
I well remember when Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler defected to the SDP and we remember what happened to him a few months later. I do at least give both Carswell and Reckless the credit for having the decency to stand down and fight a by-election.
I would contend that the SDP is a poor example for the current split on the Right. The SDP split towards the middle of the political spectrum. As I have always contended, most recently today, that ground is far too crowded to ever be able to support a single party on its own. That is what Cameron is finding and why he is having so much trouble now that he has abandoned his Right wing.
That is also what the SDP found. They were doomed really before they started because all it took was for the Labour party to shift towards the middle and those natural Labour supporters flowed back.
UKIP is different. They have split away from the political centre ground and as such have an easier time of it, all the more so because as others have pointed out there is a disconnect between the political centre and the middle ground amongst the general public.
This is not to say that UKIP will survive. Right now they appear to be unsure of exactly what sort of party they want to be and that is untenable in the medium term.
But I do think that using the SDP as an analogue is mistaken.
I well remember when Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler defected to the SDP and we remember what happened to him a few months later. I do at least give both Carswell and Reckless the credit for having the decency to stand down and fight a by-election.
There have been 16 further defections from the Tory Party since then. Could you not find one a little more recent instead of one 33 years old to fit your narrative?
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Most Kippers will tell you that there job isn't to prop up the Tory Party.
It's to replace them.
We are the UK's oldest political party and will still be around long after Nigel's kippers have been eaten for breakfast by Gideon's pet cat.
I believe there's still a few continuity-Liberal Party councillors around.
The so-called continuity Liberal party is a new party created in 1989.
The Liberal Democrats are the continuation of the old Liberal party and could make a claim about being the oldest political party (whether the Liberals or Conservatives are older is a very abitrary and semantic based discussion iirc).
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Most Kippers will tell you that their job isn't to prop up the Tory Party.
It's to replace them.
Oh, I hope that isn't true. If it were to be true then UKIP would be defining itself against another party and that would be a very bad thing to do. As I have said many times to succeed UKIP has to as acceptable on the council estate as on the private three-bed semi developments and the big houses. I think it is making progress.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
And here we see the pathology of the Tories. They're so angry when they are deprived of their perceived entitlement that they will put punishing the 'traitors' ahead of what's best for the country.
These are not UKIP-elected MPs in a normal election.
They are Conservative MPs; supported by the party, and voted by people supporting the Conservative party; jumping ship as they perceive their own personal careers will (they hope) be better off by doing so.
Traitors, in the circumstances, seems a reasonable word to use.
They may well win in the current difficult circumstances. Heck, Miliband may win next year in the circumstances. None of that changes what they are.
LOL What twaddle. Politics is not about my party right or wrong but about principles. Cameron has abandoned his and that is why both the public and now his own MPs are abandoning him. I am not sure about Reckless but Carswell would have walked the next GE as a Tory. It is to his great credit he could no longer stomach the thought of doing so.
I assume you consider Churchill a traitor as well?
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
And here we see the pathology of the Tories. They're so angry when they are deprived of their perceived entitlement that they will put punishing the 'traitors' ahead of what's best for the country.
These are not UKIP-elected MPs in a normal election.
They are Conservative MPs; supported by the party, and voted by people supporting the Conservative party; jumping ship as they perceive their own personal careers will (they hope) be better off by doing so.
Traitors, in the circumstances, seems a reasonable word to use.
They may well win in the current difficult circumstances. Heck, Miliband may win next year in the circumstances. None of that changes what they are.
That would have been true if they had crossed the floor, however they have given the people who voted for them because they were Tories the opportunity to continue voting Tory.
Most of the hardcore elderly Kippers will be six feet under the golf course by then.
Nope that will be all the fault of the Tories
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about Miliband in No 10.
What's the plan - Kipper MPs propping up a minority Labour government in exchange for a referendum?! (Except Nigel's gone a bit cold on the EU - he hardly mentioned it in his speech)
Miliband or Cameron in No 10 makes no difference to me. They are both as bad as each other.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
Quite. Until such a time as the Tories are both not led by Cameron (so less than a year from now) or a leader even slightly Cameroonish, at the least, a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party. Depending on how successful they are going after disaffected Labour votes and how much a new Tory leader sucks up to them, UKIP keeping their distance from the Tories may not end even after the Cameroon era either.
It also hardly matters about assigning who is at 'fault' for Ed M becoming PM - Cameron for splitting the right further, or UKIP for, well, existing and doing well - as either way UKIP's rise plays into that happening. UKIP currently seem happy to accept that, so Tories remonstrating with them over it is unlikely to achieve anything.
Most of the hardcore elderly Kippers will be six feet under the golf course by then.
Nope that will be all the fault of the Tories
Once again since you seem to find this concept difficult to understand. Voters are abandoning the Tory party in droves not because of UKIP but because of what the Tories under Cameron have become.
They are becoming unelectable as a party and when they fail in 2015 that will be because of Cameron and his blind supporters.
"Britain's public finances remain in an appalling state, partly because the coalition has acted like a Labour government in protecting so much spending from both the axe and, just as importantly, from reform. "
I was at the College of Law with Mark Reckless and got to know Brooks Newmark when campaigning for him in 2001 in Braintree so sad to hear the news on both fronts. But this is not the 1990s, for starters we are only 4 years into a Tory-led government, not 15 years, and Miliband is certainly no Blair at his peak and he still trails Cameron. The 35% share Labour is on tonight is also only 1% more than Kinnock got in 1992 and is not a share of a party destined to enter government. If UKIP win Heywood and Middleton it will be Miliband who also has a problem, Brooks was just caught in a rather ridiculous Mirror 'sting' on social media and he has now done the honourable thing and resigned and the privacy of he and his family should be respected at this time
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Most Kippers will tell you that there job isn't to prop up the Tory Party.
It's to replace them.
We are the UK's oldest political party and will still be around long after Nigel's kippers have been eaten for breakfast by Gideon's pet cat.
I believe there's still a few continuity-Liberal Party councillors around.
The so-called continuity Liberal party is a new party created in 1989.
The Liberal Democrats are the continuation of the old Liberal party and could make a claim about being the oldest political party (whether the Liberals or Conservatives are older is a very abitrary and semantic based discussion iirc).
Maybe that's legally the case, but (as I do not know), does the continuity Liberal party have a good claim to be a closer spiritual successor to the old Liberal party than the LDs? If the merger into the LDs had enough of an influence on the identity of the party, I could conceive of an technically new party adhering closer to the old views to have a claim to be the real successors.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
And here we see the pathology of the Tories. They're so angry when they are deprived of their perceived entitlement that they will put punishing the 'traitors' ahead of what's best for the country.
These are not UKIP-elected MPs in a normal election.
They are Conservative MPs; supported by the party, and voted by people supporting the Conservative party; jumping ship as they perceive their own personal careers will (they hope) be better off by doing so.
Traitors, in the circumstances, seems a reasonable word to use.
They may well win in the current difficult circumstances. Heck, Miliband may win next year in the circumstances. None of that changes what they are.
If they are re-elected by their electorates then their actions will be fully vindicated. End Of Story. That you seem to put party before the voter demonstrates exactly the issue that has lost the Tories so much support and forced these MPs to defect
Most of the hardcore elderly Kippers will be six feet under the golf course by then.
Nope that will be all the fault of the Tories
Once again since you seem to find this concept difficult to understand. Voters are abandoning the Tory party in droves not because of UKIP but because of what the Tories under Cameron have become.
They are becoming unelectable as a party and when they fail in 2015 that will be because of Cameron and his blind supporters.
"Britain's public finances remain in an appalling state, partly because the coalition has acted like a Labour government in protecting so much spending from both the axe and, just as importantly, from reform. "
I well remember when Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler defected to the SDP and we remember what happened to him a few months later. I do at least give both Carswell and Reckless the credit for having the decency to stand down and fight a by-election.
This is not to say that UKIP will survive. Right now they appear to be unsure of exactly what sort of party they want to be and that is untenable in the medium term.
I think the Direct Democracy platform (if UKIP choose to embrace it!) helps them sidestep that issue. Decentralisation of political power lets voters shape policies to their liking.
Most of the hardcore elderly Kippers will be six feet under the golf course by then.
Nope that will be all the fault of the Tories
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about Miliband in No 10.
What's the plan - Kipper MPs propping up a minority Labour government in exchange for a referendum?! (Except Nigel's gone a bit cold on the EU - he hardly mentioned it in his speech)
Miliband or Cameron in No 10 makes no difference to me. They are both as bad as each other.
Well they will be bad in slightly different ways I imagine, and in what areas particularly which might sway a few people one way or the other on the UKIP side, but it's hardly a surprise many do not care who wins. Still, with a Labour minority much more likely than a Tory one (even if I think Ed M will win a majority), I'm sure UKIP have some ideas in place for what they could offer as conditional support if they can get 5 MPs or so, still no easy task even with a couple at least now looking likely.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Most Kippers will tell you that there job isn't to prop up the Tory Party.
It's to replace them.
We are the UK's oldest political party and will still be around long after Nigel's kippers have been eaten for breakfast by Gideon's pet cat.
I believe there's still a few continuity-Liberal Party councillors around.
The so-called continuity Liberal party is a new party created in 1989.
The Liberal Democrats are the continuation of the old Liberal party and could make a claim about being the oldest political party (whether the Liberals or Conservatives are older is a very abitrary and semantic based discussion iirc).
Maybe that's legally the case, but (as I do not know), does the continuity Liberal party have a good claim to be a closer spiritual successor to the old Liberal party than the LDs? If the merger into the LDs had enough of an influence on the identity of the party, I could conceive of an technically new party adhering closer to the old views to have a claim to be the real successors.
*shrugs*
Was New Labour the spiritual successor to Old Labour? And so on and so on (or if you're feeling mischevious, are Cameron and Blair both spiritual successors to the Alliance?)
I well remember when Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler defected to the SDP and we remember what happened to him a few months later. I do at least give both Carswell and Reckless the credit for having the decency to stand down and fight a by-election.
This is not to say that UKIP will survive. Right now they appear to be unsure of exactly what sort of party they want to be and that is untenable in the medium term.
I think the Direct Democracy platform (if UKIP choose to embrace it!) helps them sidestep that issue. Decentralisation of political power lets voters shape policies to their liking.
I agree that would help greatly. But as with so many things my natural antipathy towards all politicians (even the ones I support) leaves me in the position of only believing it when it actually happens. Cameron and Clegg had a couple of very good political reforms written into the Coalition agreement and conveniently forgot about them.
Some of the LDs stand for more state control than any Liberals could claim to stomach; and some are almost as green as the authoritarians led by Bennet and Lucas.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
And here we see the pathology of the Tories. They're so angry when they are deprived of their perceived entitlement that they will put punishing the 'traitors' ahead of what's best for the country.
These are not UKIP-elected MPs in a normal election.
They are Conservative MPs; supported by the party, and voted by people supporting the Conservative party; jumping ship as they perceive their own personal careers will (they hope) be better off by doing so.
Traitors, in the circumstances, seems a reasonable word to use.
They may well win in the current difficult circumstances. Heck, Miliband may win next year in the circumstances. None of that changes what they are.
LOL What twaddle. Politics is not about my party right or wrong but about principles. Cameron has abandoned his
No he has just abandoned berks like you. Thankfully.
All this talk of defections. I was starting to panic that Neil Hamilton might defect from UKIP to the Tory Party. We would politely have to decline.
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
Kippers hate Cameron more than they hate Miliband and vice versa.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
a UKIP-Tory pact could not work because they hate Cameroons more than Miliband, and would prefer no pledge for a referendum from Labour to a pledge to hold a referendum from a Cameron led Tory party.
Yes, the raw hatred of UKIP members towards Cameron is curious. I wonder what brought it on. Yes, he was privately schooled but so was Nigel Farage. Cameron has dabbled in one policy that could be deemed progressive and anti-Christian - gay marriage. But Thatcher abolished corporal punishment in schools and introduced Sunday trading, which is surely just as bad or worse, yet most of them still adore her. No, I just can't work it out!
Generally speaking clearing out the loony fringe is no bad thing. It's preferable it happens further out, but a week is a long time in politics. Seven months is an aeon.
Whatever the tub thumpers on here may think, this will all be forgotten soon enough. I'm looking forward to proper politics next spring when UKIP will find life extremely uncomfortable.
The problem for UKIP is premature ejaculation, I think out of desperation or over-excitement.
Comments
So the England captain has had sex with a prostitute gran but a lower league minister has to resign for suggesting he will play away?
Cameron wouldn't survive 20 MPs defecting to UKIP.
Almost certainly not 15.
Probably 10.
But would 5 force him out?
Interested on an evens bet on Reckless' majority? How confident are you?
*it was the GE night when BMA announced his defeat blaming Blair only to win the seat 2 hours later. IIRC he refused to shake Reckless's hand because of something that was written into a Con leaflet
Still don't think Reckless has the appeal of Carswell. I hope the bookies price up on this sooner rather than later.
I do not see the tory party changing. It would just be a gift to labour and LDs if it swing knee jerk to the right and the tory party is and has been a centrist party.
Cameron has already announced his opposition to ever closer union in a perfectly viable wise and coherent speech. The issue is clear and the policy sound. But the EU is not a real issue with UKIP anymore. Its just base racism firmly centred on anti muslimism. It sees it can get votes there. It has to be left to do what it will and bring on what harm it will on our country.
I suppose we should be grateful. It is just this sort of moronic behaviour that drives more people out of the Tory party.
It's up there with "I slipped and fell, penis first...."
This was his reaction when his defensive error allowed Leicester to equalise last week. Also note how none of his team are interested in his opinions.
https://mediacru.sh/4e3-zJN-7Yn1
Bit of a reality check today. Palace have much better defence than Man United.
That's why Labour is little more than a coalition of minorities these days south of the Pennines.
I'll get up early to make sure I'm First.
i can be right wing but I amk not a bigot like some.
Shall I tell you what I want?
Its not to have Miliband as PM.
Its to have a sane broadchurch centre right tory party. One thats electable. What we have are thick tory backbenchers who endlessly shoot their own party in the foot and totally lose any opportunity to see any form of right wing govt or policy enacted by a tory govt.
You and people like you are meat and drink to Miliband. Useful idiots.
Most amusing at the time though I do appreciate you had to be there!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/wayne-rooneys-auld-slapper-my-heart-245674
I don't know why people use prostitutes.
I'd be scared of using one.
After two hours with her, and my panther like prowess to bring women to hidden realms of ecstasy, I'd be demanding she pays me,
Then her pimp would re-arrange my face.
"She's a condom seller, and she was providing me with a free demo on how to use them"
http://www.youtube.com
/watch?v=JYwlbANUoxg
On the subject of bigots, a Tory party supporter has no right what so ever to criticise any other party as long as Ken 'with a bit of luck you'll get Aids' Gregory is still one of your councillors.Or maybe you think that homophobia is acceptable for Tory councillors?
"Dr Mark Hanson steps aside in Rochester and Strood for @MarkReckless and is awarded a Party Gold Medal "
twitter.com/UKIP/status/515879579500949504
Opinium tables... must have Opinium tables...
Most of the hardcore elderly Kippers will be six feet under the golf course by then.
Reckless by nature.
If another MP defects s/he will feel obliged to resign and fight a by-election but if Dan Hannan resigns we just get another Tory MEP. If he doesn't resign and does defect, he will be no better than those former Tory MEPs who defected to the LibDems 2009-2014. Incidentally where are they now?
As for Comedy Resolutions side splitting poll, does anyone care what they say?
UKIP Over 47.5% @ Evens?
Edit - these are the ukip clacton % odds;
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/clacton-by-election/ukip-vote-share
Tories have long memories and never forgive political treachery. Kippers are kidding themselves if they think we will form a coalition with them. They can climb into bed with the Labour party they are doing their best to help get elected.
It's to replace them.
Mike Smithson retweeted
Iain Martin Iain Martin
@iainmartin1
Can't believe Farage forgot the EU in his conference speech...
10:20 PM - 26 Sep 14
It's to replace them.
Once again since you seem to find this concept difficult to understand. Voters are abandoning the Tory party in droves not because of UKIP but because of what the Tories under Cameron have become.
They are becoming unelectable as a party and when they fail in 2015 that will be because of Cameron and his blind supporters.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4217277.ece
What's the plan - Kipper MPs propping up a minority Labour government in exchange for a referendum?! (Except Nigel's gone a bit cold on the EU - he hardly mentioned it in his speech)
They are Conservative MPs; supported by the party, and voted by people supporting the Conservative party; jumping ship as they perceive their own personal careers will (they hope) be better off by doing so.
Traitors, in the circumstances, seems a reasonable word to use.
They may well win in the current difficult circumstances. Heck, Miliband may win next year in the circumstances. None of that changes what they are.
Kippers have long memories too and we haven't forgotten or forgiven.
And Kippers are increasingly incoherent in their rage and policies. I cannot see a Kipper Tory coalition working.
That is also what the SDP found. They were doomed really before they started because all it took was for the Labour party to shift towards the middle and those natural Labour supporters flowed back.
UKIP is different. They have split away from the political centre ground and as such have an easier time of it, all the more so because as others have pointed out there is a disconnect between the political centre and the middle ground amongst the general public.
This is not to say that UKIP will survive. Right now they appear to be unsure of exactly what sort of party they want to be and that is untenable in the medium term.
But I do think that using the SDP as an analogue is mistaken.
Will Dave order air strikes against UKIP targets?
The Liberal Democrats are the continuation of the old Liberal party and could make a claim about being the oldest political party (whether the Liberals or Conservatives are older is a very abitrary and semantic based discussion iirc).
I assume you consider Churchill a traitor as well?
It also hardly matters about assigning who is at 'fault' for Ed M becoming PM - Cameron for splitting the right further, or UKIP for, well, existing and doing well - as either way UKIP's rise plays into that happening. UKIP currently seem happy to accept that, so Tories remonstrating with them over it is unlikely to achieve anything.
Vote Ukip get Tory. Vote Tory get a photo of a penis. Vote LibDem get counselling.
Would be foolish for Farage to over-promise and under-deliver.
.....and apparently more important questions than everything Ed Miliband covered in his speech. So what?
Was New Labour the spiritual successor to Old Labour? And so on and so on (or if you're feeling mischevious, are Cameron and Blair both spiritual successors to the Alliance?)
What a daft comment. Bubble and froth.
Watch and wait.
Whatever the tub thumpers on here may think, this will all be forgotten soon enough. I'm looking forward to proper politics next spring when UKIP will find life extremely uncomfortable.
The problem for UKIP is premature ejaculation, I think out of desperation or over-excitement.