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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Survation Indyref poll gives Better Together some good news

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  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    The HMIC verdict of Most Improved Force is really like a progress prize for failing kids. I worked in a force that got one of those gongs. It just meant going from really crap to quite reasonable.

    Sure it tends to mean that the CCons lit a fire under a lot of arses, but that can also lead to a lot of dubious figure bending to meet the demands of an autocratic leader. Again, personal experience here - it's easier to get creative than deal with an awkward issue, especially if the person is charge is ambitious.

    SeanT said:

    SeanT - whatever the council were doing, or not as the case may be, the job of preventing crime is ultimately up to the police. I still think that is the biggest mystery in all this.

    I suspect collusion between police and council. They covered it up together. I now believe, as I said, that this will end in criminal prosecutions.
    It ought to, whether it will or not is another matter. We already have allegations in the public domain of corrupt behaviour by officers whose identity is known, yet no arrests have been made, no suspensions from duty have taken place. We have astonishing admissions in Parliament today one of which you quoted up-thread.

    However, what we don't have is any energy in actually putting together a criminal investigation into those who were responsible for the cover-ups and conspiracies to pervert the course of justice. Just a lot of enquiries that really are just a means of knocking the whole thing into the long grass.
    To be honest, if there were arrests or suspensions at this stage then I'd be tempted to think they were fall guys, with the real culprits hiding behind them.

    People will be in severe CYA mode. Certainly the ex-chief constable Meredydd Hughes has serious questions to answer, as do the HMIC for stating SYP was a 'most improved' force during his time.

    I'd rather get the right people soon than the easy people now. They're not going anywhere.
  • DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    I am doing what I can at the moment within the constraints of a family illness and I follow the BT events on Facebook I appreciate the efforts you are all making.
  • DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland.
    Your canvas returns must tell you the same.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    Ishmael_X said:

    Sun Politics @Sun_Politics · now

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Labour have six point lead, Lib Dems equal lowest YouGov polling: CON 32% LAB 38% LD 6% UKIP 14% GRN 5%

    Lab leads this week 6,5,6.

    Feck.

    Yes - in order it's been 5, 6, 6.

    Last week was 1, 3, 3, 4, 2 = average 2.6

    So a pretty significant change.

    Set against that, we should add that Monday's Populus was only a 2% lead - low by Monday Populus standards.

    But even so, it all adds up to a pointer that the lead may have ticked upwards.
  • Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    George Galloway (@georgegalloway)
    10/09/2014 18:06
    I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded

    If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
    Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
    Slimeball or not, it's outrageous that the SNP has been allowed to censor someone like that!
    He hasn't been prevented from speaking - see the newspaper piece I posted earlier.

    I've been trying to read the whole thread; I must have missed that.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    George Galloway (@georgegalloway)
    10/09/2014 18:06
    I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded

    If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
    Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
    Slimeball or not, it's outrageous that the SNP has been allowed to censor someone like that!
    I agree. Why should the SNP get a veto on who's on question time?
    Who, besides Galloway, says that they have?

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    My Scottish relatives will also take my barbs in the right spirit, likewise, I hope, the half Scottish mother of my beloved, quarter Scottish daughter. Here she is:

    http://tinyurl.com/mq93266

    She is lovely. A real pixie!

    Thankyou! I fear she may turn out to be a real beauty, and I will therefore be forced to defend her - and her pretty half-sister - with shotguns.
    In this modern age do we still need to look at teenage daughters as precious things that are incapable of making their own good decisions in relationships?

    (I am aware Rotherham is lurking in the back of my mind as I say this.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578


    Is it possible that we could have a 'Highlights of Today's PB' page where those of us who actually work could see the best / funniest / most insightful comments made during the day.

    Similar to cricket highlights programs.
    I'll ask Mike to bring back the like button.

    If only you could multi-task, some of us can work and read PB.
    Some of us cannot access PB through our work computers, alas
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Welcome to Ally too!
    AggieD said:



    I did post a couple of times before the last GE but I scurried off after a bit of abuse. But I have to say that I found Gordon Brown very moving . Jim Murphy, completely changed my opinion of him, and I was horrified yesterday when I heard Cameron was coming to Scotland but I think he did OK.

    My Scottish wife (who is basically non-political) said when Gordon was PM that he was a recognisable decent Scottish type and the media were unfairly monstering him for not being a smoothie like Tony. I wasn't an undiluted fan and flirted with the DM coup-that-wasn't, but he's certainly in his element at the moment. Jim Murphy was always good in Parliament - not a spellbinder, but clever, resilient, and oddly good at avoiding enemies, even when getting European legislation through. He had that good helicopter moment too when he could easily have driven off to safety. The media say he's out of favour in the Westminster party (no idea if that's true), but if No wins this I'd like to see him promoted.

    Labour does seem to be having a good week with YG - presumably because of the Scottish coverage. There's just been a Green conference which may have put them up a point or two.
  • AllyM said:

    Evening.

    Inspired by Aggie D, I'm another lurker here, albeit, just the last few weeks.

    Also a Scottish Conservative and already voted 'No' in the referendum. Might be worth pointing out I also like a wee gamble!

    Anyway, as with Aggie, I too feel strongly and have really ramped up the visibility of my support in keeping of the Union the last couple weeks.

    Looking forward to being a 'non-lurker'.

    Hi AllyM, comforting to know we're not alone.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Just a fly-by comment.
    I've a simple mind.
    What I say is this:
    It's all crystal bollocks.
    Let's have the real thing.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I can't think of any in YEARS.
    Carnyx said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @AllyM
    If you come drinking with us, we will mark you down as "undecided" anyway.
    And since you are a Tory, it is your round you rich b8sturd!

    Seriously, are there no regular Slabbers on PB at all? I'd got some folk tentatively marked down as such, but for all I know they are with the Scottish Greens or Socialists ...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    isam said:

    Smarmeron said:

    I was discussing Rotheram with a neighbour, an ex policeman, and after an initial defence of the force, even he had to admit that something corrupt that way went.

    As was the case with Plebgate, only fools would believe otherwise.

    I've got no doubt the majority of the police are well-intentioned and do a good job - certainly, they performed excellently when they dealt with me last year. There will be corrupt officers, incompetents and ner-do-wells, but these are almost certainly in the minority.

    So the question is: what happened that made this possible? Was it command from above ("we must squash these investigations"), a more sinister corporate culture (c.f. 'institutional racism'), council involvement, or something else?

    What made the police force go wrong on such a grand scale?
    Its extremely easy.. they were too scared of being called racist to do their job properly

    Nick Griffin called it about 8 years ago, and got taken to court for racial hatred

    Working in a politically correct environment, for an institution that had been told its every decision had roots in racism, how difficult must it be to side with the leader of the BNP with the risk of losing your job?

    Look up Jahingar Akhtar on Rotherham politics website

    Beware easy answers. I've no doubt that what you say was part of it, but I doubt it is the whole story. Blaming it on PC may hide other issues we need to learn from, and protect culprits.

    For instance, there *may* have been collusion and conspiracy higher up in the force (with outside agencies), and those high heidyins used such fears as a tool to stop their officers from doing their jobs.

    We just cannot know at the moment. And we need to know.
    We also need to know what has happened in the TWENTY OTHER TOWNS with other abuse patterns. Yet what do we get from our government over the worse rape crime wave we've ever known about? Nothing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    George Galloway (@georgegalloway)
    10/09/2014 18:06
    I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded

    If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
    Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
    Slimeball or not, it's outrageous that the SNP has been allowed to censor someone like that!
    He hasn't been prevented from speaking - see the newspaper piece I posted earlier.

    I've been trying to read the whole thread; I must have missed that.
    Here it is for your convenience. I see there was a memory slip on my part, sorry - but it is an odd story. And the BBC and Herald don't back him up.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/row-over-george-galloway-slot-on-question-time.1410378979

  • Mr. J. In putting together a case against a conspiracy a standard tactic is you start of with the little people, they will give you the next level, and so on. However, there is no excuse for holding back on this we have senior people, police and council, in the frame already.

    What is needed is some energy and drive from the top to get things moving. This is going to be a very big investigation, it will need a lot of people (none from South Yorks Police) and a lot of money. That cannot happen without the Home office behind it and so far all I have heard from Teresa May is the usual waffle.

    The little people may not know anything relevant: if iSam's conjecture is right and it was a culture of PC that caused it, then the majority of the junior officers will know little of importance. And it may be hard (or at least time-consuming) to work out which ones did know things of importance, especially if (as seems likely) there was a cover-up.

    Also, who does the suspensions and firings? You cannot trust the senior officers within the force to do it, and we all saw what happened when Balls cocked up Sharon Shoesmith's dismissal. It took well over a year for the guilty officers in Plebgate to face justice of varying forms; it may take longer to untangle Rotherham's tentacles.

    As an aside, there is also the issue of what to do with officers (and councillors / council staff) who have retired or moved on. They should not escape justice.

    I'm concerned that in rushing to sharpen the pitchforks and boil the tar, we'll get the wrong people and not discover how it was allowed to happen. And as it (or certainly similar) things have been going on in other councils, then it is vitally important to learn how it happened. Prof. Alexis Jay's report gave us good indications of the symptoms of the disease; we now need to isolate it and work out how to stop future infections.

    The danger, as we have seen countless times in the past, is that a few people will get sacked and jailed, and the same things will happen again and again.
  • malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    Aggie, do not listen you will be bored to death with lies , gloom and more lies
    Hi malcolmg, I must admit you used to wind me up big time, but I've decided you're a parody and I now much enjoy your daily rants.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Sturgeon talking the same nonsense about banks as Eck on ITV News.

    As deluded as Malcolmg.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited September 2014
    SeanT said:

    Hah. News at Ten.

    Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.

    That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.

    It's the sort of thing No have been warning would happen, but it doesn't seem to have been effective or even arrested Yes momentum yet - will the potential reality of it achieve results, or will the 'good riddance' argument continue to work?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland.
    Your canvas returns must tell you the same.

    I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
  • Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    My Scottish relatives will also take my barbs in the right spirit, likewise, I hope, the half Scottish mother of my beloved, quarter Scottish daughter. Here she is:

    http://tinyurl.com/mq93266

    She is lovely. A real pixie!

    Thankyou! I fear she may turn out to be a real beauty, and I will therefore be forced to defend her - and her pretty half-sister - with shotguns.
    In this modern age do we still need to look at teenage daughters as precious things that are incapable of making their own good decisions in relationships?

    (I am aware Rotherham is lurking in the back of my mind as I say this.)
    Daughters and sons.

    Barnardo's believes that one third of the victims of child sexual abuse are male. Like domestic violence, there is a common belief that it only affects females.
  • AllyM said:

    Evening.

    Inspired by Aggie D, I'm another lurker here, albeit, just the last few weeks.

    Also a Scottish Conservative and already voted 'No' in the referendum. Might be worth pointing out I also like a wee gamble!

    Anyway, as with Aggie, I too feel strongly and have really ramped up the visibility of my support in keeping of the Union the last couple weeks.

    Looking forward to being a 'non-lurker'.

    PB is an odd place. There are more Scottish Tories on here than in Scotland itself.
    Maybe we outnumber the pandas after all.
  • SeanT said:

    Hah. News at Ten.

    Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.

    That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.

    That's the Royal Bank of Scotland that Alex Salmond worked many years for.

    Also the Bank of Scotland will follow RBS' lead
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    George Galloway (@georgegalloway)
    10/09/2014 18:06
    I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded

    If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
    Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
    Slimeball or not, it's outrageous that the SNP has been allowed to censor someone like that!
    He hasn't been prevented from speaking - see the newspaper piece I posted earlier.

    I've been trying to read the whole thread; I must have missed that.
    Here it is for your convenience. I see there was a memory slip on my part, sorry - but it is an odd story. And the BBC and Herald don't back him up.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/row-over-george-galloway-slot-on-question-time.1410378979
    It's a disgrace and you know it. Shame on the SNP. Shame on the BBC.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    George Galloway (@georgegalloway)
    10/09/2014 18:06
    I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded

    If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
    Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
    Slimeball or not, it's outrageous that the SNP has been allowed to censor someone like that!
    He hasn't been prevented from speaking - see the newspaper piece I posted earlier.

    I've been trying to read the whole thread; I must have missed that.
    Here it is for your convenience. I see there was a memory slip on my part, sorry - but it is an odd story. And the BBC and Herald don't back him up.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/row-over-george-galloway-slot-on-question-time.1410378979
    They don't deny any part of what he said -as good as a full admission let's be honest. It's an outrageous move, but probably a clever one at this late stage. Galloway would completely destroy her. Though frankly if I were the BBC I would have just accepted her decision and not had her on the show. Galloway gives better vfm.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    My Scottish relatives will also take my barbs in the right spirit, likewise, I hope, the half Scottish mother of my beloved, quarter Scottish daughter. Here she is:

    http://tinyurl.com/mq93266

    She is lovely. A real pixie!

    Thankyou! I fear she may turn out to be a real beauty, and I will therefore be forced to defend her - and her pretty half-sister - with shotguns.
    In this modern age do we still need to look at teenage daughters as precious things that are incapable of making their own good decisions in relationships?

    (I am aware Rotherham is lurking in the back of my mind as I say this.)
    Dunno, as I have never had a daughter, but as a father I would say it is perfectly natural and right to worry about what relationships one's child (of either gender) is forming and what they are up to and such worry doesn't stop at teenage either.

    (If I had been blessed with a daughter, I think my views might be even stronger, prospective boyfriends being greeted at the door with a shotgun pointed at their groin etc.)
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    SeanT said:

    Hah. News at Ten.

    Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.

    That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.

    Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    SeanT said:

    Hah. News at Ten.

    Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.

    That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.

    That's the Royal Bank of Scotland that Alex Salmond worked many years for.

    Also the Bank of Scotland will follow RBS' lead
    No HBOS will move to London with other bits back to Halifax....
  • AllyMAllyM Posts: 260
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland.
    Your canvas returns must tell you the same.

    I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
    I've got my badge, window poster up et al.

    Even popped along to the Ed Balls, Labour driven BT campaign up here in Aberdeen on Monday.

    I decided to openly show my support, as best I can. I admire those though who are really going the extra mile.

    Good luck!
  • DavidL and seant: keep up the good work, chaps. As for me I'll continue plodding the mean streets of Moray for BT. Met a few No voters tonight almost speechless with rage about Salmond and Yes. My view is that Salmond's cheeky chappy, quipping, having a laugh persona is seriously antagonising some voters. Above all, given the gravity of what is proposed it is totally inappropriate. Wavering voters need reassurance. He promises Cameron a bus ticket (ho ho). I think the joke, ultimately, may be on him.
    One final thing - I don't think the 16-24 demographic has much respect for him either. Think he's a twat.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Tonights You Gov LAB 363 CON 244 LD 17 Other 26 (UKPR)

    Ed is Crap is PM
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    My Scottish relatives will also take my barbs in the right spirit, likewise, I hope, the half Scottish mother of my beloved, quarter Scottish daughter. Here she is:

    http://tinyurl.com/mq93266

    She is lovely. A real pixie!

    Thankyou! I fear she may turn out to be a real beauty, and I will therefore be forced to defend her - and her pretty half-sister - with shotguns.
    In this modern age do we still need to look at teenage daughters as precious things that are incapable of making their own good decisions in relationships?

    (I am aware Rotherham is lurking in the back of my mind as I say this.)
    Dunno, as I have never had a daughter, but as a father I would say it is perfectly natural and right to worry about what relationships one's child (of either gender) is forming and what they are up to and such worry doesn't stop at teenage either.

    (If I had been blessed with a daughter, I think my views might be even stronger, prospective boyfriends being greeted at the door with a shotgun pointed at their groin etc.)
    Of course. But we still seem to have this double standard of saying "boys will be boys" with teenage males, while feeling we need to scare off all suitors with a shotgun with teenage females.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    George Galloway (@georgegalloway)
    10/09/2014 18:06
    I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded

    If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
    Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
    Slimeball or not, it's outrageous that the SNP has been allowed to censor someone like that!
    I agree. Why should the SNP get a veto on who's on question time?
    Who, besides Galloway, says that they have?

    Why do they even have a choice? It's none of the SNP's business...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    DavidL and seant: keep up the good work, chaps. As for me I'll continue plodding the mean streets of Moray for BT. Met a few No voters tonight almost speechless with rage about Salmond and Yes. My view is that Salmond's cheeky chappy, quipping, having a laugh persona is seriously antagonising some voters. Above all, given the gravity of what is proposed it is totally inappropriate. Wavering voters need reassurance. He promises Cameron a bus ticket (ho ho). I think the joke, ultimately, may be on him.
    One final thing - I don't think the 16-24 demographic has much respect for him either. Think he's a twat.

    I wonder what the comparative figures for twattery are for other politicians?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    Welcome to Ally too!

    AggieD said:



    I did post a couple of times before the last GE but I scurried off after a bit of abuse. But I have to say that I found Gordon Brown very moving . Jim Murphy, completely changed my opinion of him, and I was horrified yesterday when I heard Cameron was coming to Scotland but I think he did OK.

    My Scottish wife (who is basically non-political) said when Gordon was PM that he was a recognisable decent Scottish type and the media were unfairly monstering him for not being a smoothie like Tony. I wasn't an undiluted fan and flirted with the DM coup-that-wasn't, but he's certainly in his element at the moment. Jim Murphy was always good in Parliament - not a spellbinder, but clever, resilient, and oddly good at avoiding enemies, even when getting European legislation through. He had that good helicopter moment too when he could easily have driven off to safety. The media say he's out of favour in the Westminster party (no idea if that's true), but if No wins this I'd like to see him promoted.

    Labour does seem to be having a good week with YG - presumably because of the Scottish coverage. There's just been a Green conference which may have put them up a point or two.
    Nick Labour does not have nearly enough talent or morality to ignore someone like Jim Murphy. I have also been seriously impressed by Jenny Marra MSP who has really been working very hard on this. To my knowledge (which in fairness may be incomplete) Jim McGovern MP has been out once. I really don't get so many of the SLAB cohort. Do they not realise their jobs are at risk ?
  • Sturgeon talking the same nonsense about banks as Eck on ITV News.

    As deluded as Malcolmg.

    Oh don't worry. Scotland can easily manage without banks for a few years. An independent Scotland won't need to buy houses or cars or do any business lending.

    On a more serious note I have heard from a credible source that Spain will ensure that an EU application from an independent Scotland will disappear into the bureaucracy for a very very long time - long enough to make sure Catalonia gets the message.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    malcolmg said:

    welshowl said:



    And whatever they're called they will move 92% or so of Std Life's business south. I am a trustee of our pension fund at work ( with Std Life as it happens). We have already decided it is our legal duty to move that fund out of Scotland in the event of independence for the security of our members. 100% certain. If Std Life do it for us fine, no problem. If not we'll do it with someone else. Same applies to the actuary based in Edinburgh that we use. In the event of independence he moves or we will do it for him. This is the reality. Our ( 95% Welsh as it happens) members don't give a stuff about Salmond's fantasy, and we have to respond to that as trustees.

    Similar considerations would apply to banks lending to Scottish customers I guess. How could they have confidence that loans could be repaid if they didn't know what currency customers would be paid in or its value in sterling terms? Most lenders would shut up shop at least temporarily until the currency question was resolved.
    Will be plenty of banks ready to come in and mop up the business, we get rid of the English zombie banks and get real banks in their place.
    So your real banks will have your pocket money as capital?

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    murali_s said:

    Neil said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    George Galloway (@georgegalloway)
    10/09/2014 18:06
    I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded

    If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
    Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
    Slimeball or not, it's outrageous that the SNP has been allowed to censor someone like that!
    I agree. Why should the SNP get a veto on who's on question time?
    Who, besides Galloway, says that they have?

    Why do they even have a choice? It's none of the SNP's business...
    Again, who, besides Galloway, says they were given a choice?

  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    Hah. News at Ten.

    Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.

    That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.

    Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
    Wings over Scotland?
  • Carnyx said:

    DavidL and seant: keep up the good work, chaps. As for me I'll continue plodding the mean streets of Moray for BT. Met a few No voters tonight almost speechless with rage about Salmond and Yes. My view is that Salmond's cheeky chappy, quipping, having a laugh persona is seriously antagonising some voters. Above all, given the gravity of what is proposed it is totally inappropriate. Wavering voters need reassurance. He promises Cameron a bus ticket (ho ho). I think the joke, ultimately, may be on him.
    One final thing - I don't think the 16-24 demographic has much respect for him either. Think he's a twat.

    I wonder what the comparative figures for twattery are for other politicians?
    Probably quite high but they aren't trying to lead Scotland to independence and break up a 300 year old union.
  • JohnO said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    Hah. News at Ten.

    Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.

    That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.

    Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
    Wings over Scotland?
    Shurely: Whinge Frae Bath?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Ed is Crap is PM

    And yet on this thread we are openly discussing the prospect of labour potentially losing a by-election where any government in waiting should be romping home with an increased majority.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098


    Mr. J. In putting together a case against a conspiracy a standard tactic is you start of with the little people, they will give you the next level, and so on. However, there is no excuse for holding back on this we have senior people, police and council, in the frame already.

    What is needed is some energy and drive from the top to get things moving. This is going to be a very big investigation, it will need a lot of people (none from South Yorks Police) and a lot of money. That cannot happen without the Home office behind it and so far all I have heard from Teresa May is the usual waffle.

    The little people may not know anything relevant: if iSam's conjecture is right and it was a culture of PC that caused it, then the majority of the junior officers will know little of importance. And it may be hard (or at least time-consuming) to work out which ones did know things of importance, especially if (as seems likely) there was a cover-up.

    Also, who does the suspensions and firings? You cannot trust the senior officers within the force to do it, and we all saw what happened when Balls cocked up Sharon Shoesmith's dismissal. It took well over a year for the guilty officers in Plebgate to face justice of varying forms; it may take longer to untangle Rotherham's tentacles.

    As an aside, there is also the issue of what to do with officers (and councillors / council staff) who have retired or moved on. They should not escape justice.

    I'm concerned that in rushing to sharpen the pitchforks and boil the tar, we'll get the wrong people and not discover how it was allowed to happen. And as it (or certainly similar) things have been going on in other councils, then it is vitally important to learn how it happened. Prof. Alexis Jay's report gave us good indications of the symptoms of the disease; we now need to isolate it and work out how to stop future infections.

    The danger, as we have seen countless times in the past, is that a few people will get sacked and jailed, and the same things will happen again and again.
    All good points as ever, Mr. J. However, please don't forget what I said in my second paragraph. This investigation, if it ever gets going, will be very large and it needs the Home Office behind it (else it won't get the resources it needs) and so far Teresa May has been utterly useless. Now why is that do you think?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    edited September 2014

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    isam said:

    George Galloway (@georgegalloway)
    10/09/2014 18:06
    I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded

    If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
    Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
    Slimeball or not, it's outrageous that the SNP has been allowed to censor someone like that!
    He hasn't been prevented from speaking - see the newspaper piece I posted earlier.

    I've been trying to read the whole thread; I must have missed that.
    Here it is for your convenience. I see there was a memory slip on my part, sorry - but it is an odd story. And the BBC and Herald don't back him up.
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/row-over-george-galloway-slot-on-question-time.1410378979
    They don't deny any part of what he said -as good as a full admission let's be honest. It's an outrageous move, but probably a clever one at this late stage. Galloway would completely destroy her. Though frankly if I were the BBC I would have just accepted her decision and not had her on the show. Galloway gives better vfm.
    Ah, just noticed a tweet: perhaps a case of BBC double booking.

    Nicola Sturgeon ‏@NicolaSturgeon · 9 hrs
    Asked by @ScotlandTonight to debate live with @Ed_Miliband tonight. I said yes. Seems he's said no. #indyref

    edit: anyway we may or may not hear more. Goodnight!


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    taffys said:

    Ed is Crap is PM

    And yet on this thread we are openly discussing the prospect of labour potentially losing a by-election where any government in waiting should be romping home with an increased majority.

    A testament to Tory weakness I think.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    AllyM said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland.
    Your canvas returns must tell you the same.

    I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
    I've got my badge, window poster up et al.

    Even popped along to the Ed Balls, Labour driven BT campaign up here in Aberdeen on Monday.

    I decided to openly show my support, as best I can. I admire those though who are really going the extra mile.

    Good luck!
    Ed Balls? Pah! I went and clapped Gordon bleeding Brown, a man who I think should probably be in jail for what he did to this country.

    Desperate times.
  • By the way I thought the BBC News was pretty good for BT - what I saw of it. All the stuff about banks etc. I have to qualify that by saying that Brian Taylor (BBC Scotland political correspondent) certainly seems to lean to the nationalists.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    DavidL said:

    AllyM said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland.
    Your canvas returns must tell you the same.

    I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
    I've got my badge, window poster up et al.

    Even popped along to the Ed Balls, Labour driven BT campaign up here in Aberdeen on Monday.

    I decided to openly show my support, as best I can. I admire those though who are really going the extra mile.

    Good luck!
    Ed Balls? Pah! I went and clapped Gordon bleeding Brown, a man who I think should probably be in jail for what he did to this country.

    Desperate times.
    Heroic indeed. Above and beyond the call of duty that.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Fact: some people aged 15 today will be voting in the Scottish referendum.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    Hah. News at Ten.

    Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.

    That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.

    Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
    Anyone asked J Chandler & Co Buckfast Ltd, currently of Andover?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    JohnO said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    Hah. News at Ten.

    Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.

    That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.

    Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
    Wings over Scotland?
    Good one. But I was being serious, the hypothetical traffic appears to all be going one way at the moment.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,878
    So after the panic of the last week, the Yes momentum goes...backwards, maybe the union will be saved after all
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I hope it backfires all over Mr Salmond.
    AndyJS said:

    Fact: some people aged 15 today will be voting in the Scottish referendum.

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @AndyJS
    "some people aged 15 today will be voting in the Scottish referendum."
    Will they have sobered up enough to hold the pencil the right way round by then?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited September 2014
    perdix said:

    malcolmg said:

    welshowl said:



    And whatever they're called they will move 92% or so of Std Life's business south. I am a trustee of our pension fund at work ( with Std Life as it happens). We have already decided it is our legal duty to move that fund out of Scotland in the event of independence for the security of our members. 100% certain. If Std Life do it for us fine, no problem. If not we'll do it with someone else. Same applies to the actuary based in Edinburgh that we use. In the event of independence he moves or we will do it for him. This is the reality. Our ( 95% Welsh as it happens) members don't give a stuff about Salmond's fantasy, and we have to respond to that as trustees.

    Similar considerations would apply to banks lending to Scottish customers I guess. How could they have confidence that loans could be repaid if they didn't know what currency customers would be paid in or its value in sterling terms? Most lenders would shut up shop at least temporarily until the currency question was resolved.
    Will be plenty of banks ready to come in and mop up the business, we get rid of the English zombie banks and get real banks in their place.
    So your real banks will have your pocket money as capital?

    Malcolm's confused.

    He thinks the loan sharks who advertise APR's of 5000% on daytime TV are banks.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Ishmael_X said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    Hah. News at Ten.

    Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.

    That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.

    Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
    Anyone asked J Chandler & Co Buckfast Ltd, currently of Andover?
    Buckfast should move to its spiritual home in the west of Ireland. (I remember a spoof student newspaper called the "Buckfast Times" when I was younger it was that popular with drinkers of a certain age.)

  • Amid it all, decent UK polling numbers for Labour going into conference season. Probably nothing more than more exposure for Lab politicians on telly however, although that in itself is interesting.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I'm aware some people think I'm a racist etc because of the Enoch Powell worship etc, but I can promise you I'm not, I just don't let PC get in the way of what seems right or wrong to me...

    Here is more fuel to the fire, a match to gunpowder maybe... Nick Griffin in 2004 on the problem of Northern England and Pakistani rape of young girls... Was he wrong? Look at the bbc interviewer... He literally can't believe what he is hearing

    http://youtu.be/6uyU3dfd3pE
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    A testament to Tory weakness I think.

    When Cameron puts his back into something, he is a formidable campaigner. Look at AV. It was largely he who left it smashed and broken on the rocks.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited September 2014
    glw said:

    JohnO said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    Hah. News at Ten.

    Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.

    That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.

    Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
    Wings over Scotland?
    Good one. But I was being serious, the hypothetical traffic appears to all be going one way at the moment.
    It would be entertaining to discover that some of the 'Yes' campaign's wealthy backers have made contingency plans to re-domicile fortunes and businesses south of the border.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:


    My Scottish relatives will also take my barbs in the right spirit, likewise, I hope, the half Scottish mother of my beloved, quarter Scottish daughter. Here she is:

    http://tinyurl.com/mq93266

    She is lovely. A real pixie!

    Thankyou! I fear she may turn out to be a real beauty, and I will therefore be forced to defend her - and her pretty half-sister - with shotguns.
    In this modern age do we still need to look at teenage daughters as precious things that are incapable of making their own good decisions in relationships?

    (I am aware Rotherham is lurking in the back of my mind as I say this.)
    Dunno, as I have never had a daughter, but as a father I would say it is perfectly natural and right to worry about what relationships one's child (of either gender) is forming and what they are up to and such worry doesn't stop at teenage either.

    (If I had been blessed with a daughter, I think my views might be even stronger, prospective boyfriends being greeted at the door with a shotgun pointed at their groin etc.)
    Of course. But we still seem to have this double standard of saying "boys will be boys" with teenage males, while feeling we need to scare off all suitors with a shotgun with teenage females.
    Double standard? I don't know. I would expect the fathers of my boy's girlfriends to behave in the same way that I would in their situation. I would possibly call it good manners, which is something that we used to take for granted.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Emily Maitliss suggesting to Danny Alexander that the Lib Dems are nowhere near as unpopular in Scotland as the Tories. Er ... I dont think so!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Latest Tweet from George
    I will be turning up at the BBC event tomorrow whether Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond like it or not. Get the popcorn in...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    taffys said:

    A testament to Tory weakness I think.

    When Cameron puts his back into something, he is a formidable campaigner. Look at AV. It was largely he who left it smashed and broken on the rocks.

    Cameron has some admirable skills, but they are not enough to overcome how divided his party are, even in the event of a No vote, when you add that factor to the unpopularity of the 'cuts', general incompetence of government and the demise of the LDs helping Labour more if they are going to hold onto to some seats, it will probably be in areas where the Tories are second).

    Labour are not offering an appealing alternative in the two Eds, despite some populist announcements, but they don't have as high a bar to hit as Cameron, so whatever his strong points, I don't see how he has it in him to improve on 2010.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Malc will be cheering RBS and Lloyds leaving.

    Scotland will keep the good banks, like Clydesdale...

    @bbclaurak: I'm hearing Clydesdale would move it's HQ too
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    HYUFD said:

    So after the panic of the last week, the Yes momentum goes...backwards, maybe the union will be saved after all

    Damn. We could be heading into the worst possible result, a narrow NO win.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Neil said:

    Emily Maitliss suggesting to Danny Alexander that the Lib Dems are nowhere near as unpopular in Scotland as the Tories. Er ... I dont think so!

    Either she's running a few years behind, or has only visited Shetland, maybe?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61408-2/fulltext

    Re NHS in Scotland and privatization/TTIP (thanks to @CalJamieson on Twitter). Signed by several dozen, presumably medics (I recognise one or two of the names and I'm not one).
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    I rarely praise the guy but Danny Alexander walking rings around Emily Maitliss who seems obsessed about the relatively trivial point of whether he will resign after a 'yes' vote (I mean, who cares?).
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland.
    Your canvas returns must tell you the same.

    I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
    DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?

    I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    An excellent article on the tragedy in Roterham:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/07/opinion/sunday/ross-douthat-rape-and-rotherham.html?_r=0

    Show me what a culture values, prizes, puts on a pedestal, and I’ll tell you who is likely to get away with rape....

    And in Rotherham, it meant men whose ethnic and religious background made them seem politically untouchable, and whose victims belonged to a class that both liberal and conservative elements in British society regard with condescension or contempt.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    welshowl said:

    DavidL said:

    AllyM said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland.
    Your canvas returns must tell you the same.

    I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
    I've got my badge, window poster up et al.

    Even popped along to the Ed Balls, Labour driven BT campaign up here in Aberdeen on Monday.

    I decided to openly show my support, as best I can. I admire those though who are really going the extra mile.

    Good luck!
    Ed Balls? Pah! I went and clapped Gordon bleeding Brown, a man who I think should probably be in jail for what he did to this country.

    Desperate times.
    Heroic indeed. Above and beyond the call of duty that.
    In 2009 Broon saved the world ! In 2014, he saved the United Kingdom.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Rupert Murdoch says that Scots are too good to be dictated to by London. FFS the last government was run by Scots! Murdoch is poison, I won't buy anything associated with him.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    taffys said:

    Ed is Crap is PM

    And yet on this thread we are openly discussing the prospect of labour potentially losing a by-election where any government in waiting should be romping home with an increased majority.

    Who do you think will be PM in GE2015?


  • AllyM said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland.
    Your canvas returns must tell you the same.

    I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
    I've got my badge, window poster up et al.

    Even popped along to the Ed Balls, Labour driven BT campaign up here in Aberdeen on Monday.

    I decided to openly show my support, as best I can. I admire those though who are really going the extra mile.

    Good luck!
    I put my window poster up yesterday, although I was a bit worried about showing open support. I was shaken though about hearing of two definite No voters (female) swaying towards Yes. One was convinced by the currency union being nailed on and the NHS scare story and the other was the Bairns not Bombs about spending money not on Trident but on childcare. There'll be many more like them who need to be talked off the ledge.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Interesting to see the number of people still predicting a Yes vote despite the fact that only 1 poll out of 55 this year has put Yes ahead.
  • Socrates said:

    Interesting tonight. Two new sensible, pleasant and well mannered Scottish NO posters, in addition to the existing polite ones we have.

    Next to that the abusive rantings and ravings of a few embittered cybernats. Tells you everything you need to know, and why they will lose.

    Which two?
    Ally and Aggie. A very warm welcome to them both.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited September 2014
    @HurstLlama
    That is the worst part about it, a decisive vote either way I could come to terms with, but if it is close, and I think it will be, it will fester on like an infected wound between us.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: This is precisely what I was asking Salmond about two weeks ago. How can you have a massive banking system and no central bank?

    @faisalislam: The answer to that question is of course: you stop having a massive banking system, and then get a central bank...

    Yoonyoonist bluffing...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    surbiton said:

    welshowl said:

    DavidL said:

    AllyM said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland.
    Your canvas returns must tell you the same.

    I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
    I've got my badge, window poster up et al.

    Even popped along to the Ed Balls, Labour driven BT campaign up here in Aberdeen on Monday.

    I decided to openly show my support, as best I can. I admire those though who are really going the extra mile.

    Good luck!
    Ed Balls? Pah! I went and clapped Gordon bleeding Brown, a man who I think should probably be in jail for what he did to this country.

    Desperate times.
    Heroic indeed. Above and beyond the call of duty that.
    In 2009 Broon saved the world ! In 2014, he saved the United Kingdom.
    Felix may be along to call you an idiot for suggesting such a thing anytime soon!!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @benrileysmith: Just seen front pages. Can't remember a more brutal Record splash for Salmond. #indyref http://t.co/bM1YhBJEJK
  • <

    I've got my badge, window poster up et al.

    Even popped along to the Ed Balls, Labour driven BT campaign up here in Aberdeen on Monday.

    I decided to openly show my support, as best I can. I admire those though who are really going the extra mile.

    Good luck!

    Ed Balls? Pah! I went and clapped Gordon bleeding Brown, a man who I think should probably be in jail for what he did to this country.

    Desperate times.

    Labour has a new contact system, obviously acquired from the Obama campaign, and they have emailed all members across the UK with a link enabling them log on and call Scottish voters. I don't know how many have responded but it's a very impressive system and will no doubt be deployed at the general election. FWIW I spoke to about 10 people, all but one of whom were solidly for no.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Oh, God. Robertson on Newsnight. Hold on to your hats.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    If you read The Times, Danny Fink has a remarkable piece on Jim Davidson and Operation Yewtree, this had me gawping.
    All the questions raised by the Cliff Richard house search are raised even more strongly by the Davidson case. Davidson’s arrest took place on the morning he was to go in to the Big Brotherhouse. The accusations were decades old, so why choose that day? The suspicion must be that the action was timed to get maximum publicity for the operation so that, after notorious failings over Jimmy Savile, it looked as if the police were “doing something”.

    This suspicion is strengthened by the fact that Davidson was joining the show a day late, a secret only known to those working on the show. To arrest him on the correct date, the officers had to plan it. And then, not long after, who shows up on Big Brother? Unbelievably, a former officer from Operation Yewtree. I am not making that up.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    taffys said:

    A testament to Tory weakness I think.

    When Cameron puts his back into something, he is a formidable campaigner. Look at AV. It was largely he who left it smashed and broken on the rocks.

    Completely agree. Which is why it was a mistake to give him such a back seat in this. Having the PM of the UK apparently indifferent was very poor tactics by BT. We were left with leadership which thinks the UK is nothing to be proud of, that having a Tory/Lib Dem coalition is something of a disaster and who are trapped by the ridiculous hyperbole of their party on matter such as the NHS, Social Security and the economy.

    None of this has helped BT put forward a positive message and it has made the tone of their campaign more negative than it should have been. I am a part of it but there are times when I think Scots will vote no despite BT, not because of it.

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    taffys said:

    Ed is Crap is PM

    And yet on this thread we are openly discussing the prospect of labour potentially losing a by-election where any government in waiting should be romping home with an increased majority.

    Who do you think will be PM in GE2015?


    Jeeeeesus. Probably Ed Miliband. Your problem isn't being wrong, it's being unbelievably boring.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Who do you think will be PM in GE2015?

    I don;t know. But what I do think is that the political sands are shifting quickly and dramatically. And I don;t think they are shifting in labour's direction.

    Look at Scotland. Labour clearly does not retain the confidence of its vast swathe of voters there
  • Looking at the survation tables there is some interesting data. Almost every opinion poll has shown more No voters on raw numbers than the weighted number. The weightings may have worked well for party elections but do they work well for referendums?

    The tables suggest that the SNP would now get 45% of the vote at Holyrood. Is this credible?

    The Tories may have only 1 MP from Scotland but they make up 30% of the No vote base. It appears that they have increased their vote slightly.

    The Lib Dems may be the big losers in Scotland. They have been way too quiet in this referendum campaign.

    The campaign has become exactly what the SNP did not want which is a vote on Salmond and the SNP. The next week will be fought in the homes of Labour voters. I spoke to one Labour Yes voter today who is having second thoughts. He has never voted anything but Labour in his life and turning his back on them is not easy.



  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @AggieD
    When it comes to childcare, not bombs, be careful you are not standing on a ledge, and it is her on the ground?
    There are enough bombs even without disarmament to blow the world well past the stoneage and would be still going strong at the pre cambrian.
  • perdix said:

    malcolmg said:


    Will be plenty of banks ready to come in and mop up the business, we get rid of the English zombie banks and get real banks in their place.

    Er! Malkie! RBS and BoS are headquartered in iEckand and will move south over the separatists border which means that there will be no, that is NO Scottish banks unless the AyrTSB expands rather radically very fast.

    Standard Life (Aviva, Prudential, LLoyds, RBS, etc.) can, and probably others will move not only their corporate HQ but most of their offices to Newcastle and south of the border - cheaper staff, rUK government loans and what have you to provide services legally to the majority of their clients.

    SL, Scottish Widows and Scottish Gas have computer systems set up so that marginally trained people can actually provide an exemplary service to their customers. Yes, I do have experience.

    Scottish Gas (and also looking after BG customers) in Granton was at one time going to be closed and moved down south, Centrica will certainly be now looking how to maintain their customer services to the majority of their customers. Any one want a large birdcage?

    So far, I have only looked at approx 50,000 staff based in Scotland. Multiply that by the accepted ratio of 4 to 1, that means that there could be 200,000 unemployed in iEckland.

    And for a short order cook, that means, you, too could be soon looking for a new job.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    glw said:

    JohnO said:

    glw said:

    SeanT said:

    Hah. News at Ten.

    Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.

    That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.

    Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
    Wings over Scotland?
    Good one. But I was being serious, the hypothetical traffic appears to all be going one way at the moment.
    Well it will do. 5m v 59m people. It's the reality of the world post a Yes that the Nats fail to acknowledge ( bluff bluster and bullying ). Now I'm sure most fervent Yes supporters are well aware of the reality but don't want to frighten off their more unsure potential voters till about ten o'clock next Thursday night. The only way a new Scotland would stem the gigantic sucking sound of people, capital, and business, leaving would be to introduce incentives to stay like competitive tax rates v England. But that means actually balancing the books or even real serious cuts and that's too scary to let on about isn't it?

    Honest independence is fine. The snake oil version will make a lot of ordinary folk's lives worse than they need be.
  • Socrates said:

    Interesting tonight. Two new sensible, pleasant and well mannered Scottish NO posters, in addition to the existing polite ones we have.

    Next to that the abusive rantings and ravings of a few embittered cybernats. Tells you everything you need to know, and why they will lose.

    Which two?
    Ally and Aggie. A very warm welcome to them both.
    Thank you.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Smarmeron said:

    @HurstLlama
    That is the worst part about it, a decisive vote either way I could come to terms with, but if it is close, and I think it will be, it will fester on like an infected wound between us.

    A narrow YES would be fine, from down here at any rate. You would be on your way and we just have to, jointly, deal with consequences. A narrow No vote would be awful, as you say a festering wound for years to come, made worse by idiots like Cameron trying to apply more one sided devolution, leading to more strife, more ill-feeling. An awful situation.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    AggieD said:

    Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.

    Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?

    One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
    Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland.
    Your canvas returns must tell you the same.

    I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
    DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?

    I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
    I've registered just to reply to this; the best thing you can do is go to Scotland and campaign. I'm a card-carrying Tory who will be driving up to the Scottish Borders with a Labour Party friend for the weekend to canvass for Better Together. We're confident that the only people who won't listen to us because we sound English are Salmond's acolytes, who will never change their minds. If that's a more widespread belief, then the Union is already over.

    If you can't travel up, then Blether Together!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,878
    Hurst At this stage I will take any win at all
  • DavidL said:

    taffys said:

    A testament to Tory weakness I think.

    When Cameron puts his back into something, he is a formidable campaigner. Look at AV. It was largely he who left it smashed and broken on the rocks.

    Completely agree. Which is why it was a mistake to give him such a back seat in this. Having the PM of the UK apparently indifferent was very poor tactics by BT. We were left with leadership which thinks the UK is nothing to be proud of, that having a Tory/Lib Dem coalition is something of a disaster and who are trapped by the ridiculous hyperbole of their party on matter such as the NHS, Social Security and the economy.

    None of this has helped BT put forward a positive message and it has made the tone of their campaign more negative than it should have been. I am a part of it but there are times when I think Scots will vote no despite BT, not because of it.

    I agree. I was one of the few posters who thought it was a good idea he got stuck in yesterday and today.

    Also calling himself an effing Tory was a master stroke, a funny way of neutralising the issue.

    PS. What happened to drawing this "sting" of which the SNP spoke tonight? It seems they're getting stung all over the place.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Neil said:

    Oh, God. Robertson on Newsnight. Hold on to your hats.

    His opponent is talking complete crap about Typhoons. Taking into account the costs of maintenance, training, procurement, and certification running a fleet of them the size that iScotland proposes having is unaffordable.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Neil said:

    Oh, God. Robertson on Newsnight. Hold on to your hats.

    Between him and Gordon it is like Zombie SLAB. Where is my cricket bat when I need it?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    At this rate, Scotland won't have any banks left... Central bank? Who needs 'em?
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: This is precisely what I was asking Salmond about two weeks ago. How can you have a massive banking system and no central bank?

    @faisalislam: The answer to that question is of course: you stop having a massive banking system, and then get a central bank...

    Yoonyoonist bluffing...

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited September 2014
    @Unionist1707
    The Borders should be an "easy ticket" for you and your friend. being at a future actual border could cause them more problems than most.
This discussion has been closed.