My Scottish relatives will also take my barbs in the right spirit, likewise, I hope, the half Scottish mother of my beloved, quarter Scottish daughter. Here she is:
"One can only hope no one digs through your list of diatribes, and discovers your normal view of Scots and Scotland."
To be fair, it has been such a pretty romance.
SeanT, having spent years reviling and lambasting the Scots, suddenly falls head-over-heels in love with Scotland after catching sight of a YouGov poll.
I do hope it lasts.
I fear once the Yougov Viagra wears off it'll be back to bouts of drunken abuse, hangovers and bad breath sex.
He who hath no stomach for this fight let him depart. His (UK) passport will be made out....
Seriously, any PBer in Scotland or with friends and relatives in it. Have you got anything more important to do than to save your country in the next 7 days? BT needs you now. Your country needs you now. Get out and help.
I was discussing Rotheram with a neighbour, an ex policeman, and after an initial defence of the force, even he had to admit that something corrupt that way went.
As was the case with Plebgate, only fools would believe otherwise.
I've got no doubt the majority of the police are well-intentioned and do a good job - certainly, they performed excellently when they dealt with me last year. There will be corrupt officers, incompetents and ner-do-wells, but these are almost certainly in the minority.
So the question is: what happened that made this possible? Was it command from above ("we must squash these investigations"), a more sinister corporate culture (c.f. 'institutional racism'), council involvement, or something else?
What made the police force go wrong on such a grand scale?
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Lurking since 2004? You must have the patience of a saint!
I have no objections to you being a Tory, but the "agreeing ... with Gordon Brown" is a bit dicy!!!
;-)
I hope you can persuade lots of your friends to vote NO
I did post a couple of times before the last GE but I scurried off after a bit of abuse. But I have to say that I found Gordon Brown very moving . Jim Murphy, completely changed my opinion of him, and I was horrified yesterday when I heard Cameron was coming to Scotland but I think he did OK.
too much information Aggie , but I do agree Brown would give anybody diahorrea
I am surely preaching to the converted but - especially with the blogs - there is always the chance they might go viral. Even if I can convert ten people, who then tell ten other people, each, then I've done my best.
Are you sure that one of your blogs going viral would have the effect that you want it to have?
A risk with any viral sensation no doubt, but it might work - we could have used more people speaking urgently earlier.
Robert Peston at the BBC almost gets it, in this article. If Yes wins, then Scottish-registered banks will relocate south, and depositors who live in rUK will stay protected after independence day. OK, so he's got that bit right. As for those who live in Scotland, the position is "more vague", apparently. Talk about circumlocution! Out with it, man!
@malcolmg Malcolm, give it a rest? I have had several run ins with Jack, and many others on here, but if they have a misfortune in their lives, I am genuinely sympathetic. Humanity is above politics.
He who hath no stomach for this fight let him depart. His (UK) passport will be made out....
Seriously, any PBer in Scotland or with friends and relatives in it. Have you got anything more important to do than to save your country in the next 7 days? BT needs you now. Your country needs you now. Get out and help.
I totally agree. But I think I am best employed using my major skill - which, such as it is - happens to be writing and polemic. I have done blogs in the last couple of days, and I've a Speccie article coming out, and I am planning a blog tomorrow or soon after in the Telegraph.
I am surely preaching to the converted but - especially with the blogs - there is always the chance they might go viral. Even if I can convert ten people, who then tell ten other people, each, then I've done my best.
Right now I think the main thing is to show Salmond for the liar he is. I will try to do that.
your pathetic wimpy lies will do no such thing , you will be seen for the fake fanny that you are
@SeanT One can only hope no one digs through your list of diatribes, and discovers your normal view of Scots and Scotland.
Hah. Go on then, feel free, knock yerself out - most of the salty, sassy, rather smart Scots I know will take them for the ridiculous humour that they clearly represent.
I LOVE Scotland, I admire Scots enormously. I have set my next book - my most important, and probably my best - in one of my favourite place, a small humble island, off southern Skye, in Scotland, owned by a friend of mine - which I have been regularly visiting since I was 21.
My Scottish relatives will also take my barbs in the right spirit, likewise, I hope, the half Scottish mother of my beloved, quarter Scottish daughter. Here she is:
I was at wedding in Scotland in 2011 and the independence issue came up. A young Scottish gentleman took the view that it was really interesting now because having a referendum would force Westminster to see what they would offer Scotland to say no. In other words the referendum was a bargaining chip. So after all the constitutional wrangling of the last few days I suspect we'll get a no vote.
Serious question, do you have a clear idea of what Westminster is offering? Fukked if I do, but interested if it's any clearer from outside.
Not really, but it will have to be substantial or the Nats will make hay. I think the unionists have backed themselves into a corner on more powers and there's no way out.
I t has perhaps not been emphasised enough that many people will be suspicious after 1979 and the more recent breach of the Edinburgh Agreement. I am assured by LiaMT that it is technically correct to argue that the latter does not have the force of law binding the UK Gmt - which I find that LiaMT is not the only lawyer to note. And that it does not bind political parties. However, to invoke such techncialities can be seen as dishonest and certainly in breach of the spirit of the agreement (I am not thinking of LiaMT here, I hasten to add).
Perhaps still more to the point, it is precisely those same agents, the UK Gmt and the parties, whom we are asked to trust over any offer, substantial or not. If a written top level agreement can't secure their assent without quibbling over technicalities ....
And on top of that, Mr Darling said this morning that it was nothing new but the same old stuff that has been on offer for months ... while othe people are upsetting the rest of the UK with spurious talk of Devomax ...
I think there will be Devomax for Scotland if the vote is no and then the clamour for an answer to the WLQ will become unstoppable. Ironically it could mean Labour lose either way with respect to their Scottish MPs
Again serious question: what do you perceive Devomax to be? All income tax, CT, oil, VAT, duties etc?
Isn't that the problem, Mr. Divvie? Everyone has their own idea of what Devomax is that actually a debate about whether it should happen is pretty much worthless. Furthermore if Scotland does vote No then there is going to be even more acrimony about whatever new powers are granted (too much, too few etc.).
From here the best solution is a Yes vote. Independence is going to happen eventually, Devomax (whatever it ends up meaning) will just be another stepping stone as was Devolution, let us just split.
Wards: Bamford, Castleton, East Middleton, Hopwood Hall, Norden, North Heywood, North Middleton, South Middleton, West Heywood, West Middleton.
Thanks - I was about to start doing that but was faced with the tedium of cut and paste from multiple pages of the Rochdale council website. I believe that that includes a couple of wards where UKIP didn't stand as well.
Yes UKIP didn't contest Bamford or Castleton. Bamford is the Tory stronghold in the constituency.
He who hath no stomach for this fight let him depart. His (UK) passport will be made out....
Seriously, any PBer in Scotland or with friends and relatives in it. Have you got anything more important to do than to save your country in the next 7 days? BT needs you now. Your country needs you now. Get out and help.
I totally agree. But I think I am best employed using my major skill - which, such as it is - happens to be writing and polemic. I have done blogs in the last couple of days, and I've a Speccie article coming out, and I am planning a blog tomorrow or soon after in the Telegraph.
I am surely preaching to the converted but - especially with the blogs - there is always the chance they might go viral. Even if I can convert ten people, who then tell ten other people, each, then I've done my best.
Right now I think the main thing is to show Salmond for the liar he is. I will try to do that.
All Scots know Salmond is a liar. Some don't care because they want independence more than anything which is fair enough. Cameron was, for once , spot on today. Scots need to be reminded why they should love their country and want to remain a part of it. Giving Scots the choice of head and heart was always pretty stupid. We need to fight for the heart and soul of this country. Patriotism is not about pounds and pence. It is insulting to think it is.
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?
One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
Aggie, do not listen you will be bored to death with lies , gloom and more lies
He who hath no stomach for this fight let him depart. His (UK) passport will be made out....
Seriously, any PBer in Scotland or with friends and relatives in it. Have you got anything more important to do than to save your country in the next 7 days? BT needs you now. Your country needs you now. Get out and help.
they get ever more desperate these no hopers
Is there something wrong with throwing everything and the kitchen sink at something one supports a great deal? Sure, it's desperate, finally people have woken up to the fact that 'Crap, Yes actually have a lot of support, momentum and talent, we need to do something' , but this was always likely to end in an undignified, knock down brawl. If it won't, the aftermath certainly will be.
@malcolmg Malcolm, give it a rest? I have had several run ins with Jack, and many others on here, but if they have a misfortune in their lives, I am genuinely sympathetic. Humanity is above politics.
You mean he is ill an its not another of his fake mince pathetic polemics.
I was discussing Rotheram with a neighbour, an ex policeman, and after an initial defence of the force, even he had to admit that something corrupt that way went.
As was the case with Plebgate, only fools would believe otherwise.
I've got no doubt the majority of the police are well-intentioned and do a good job - certainly, they performed excellently when they dealt with me last year. There will be corrupt officers, incompetents and ner-do-wells, but these are almost certainly in the minority.
So the question is: what happened that made this possible? Was it command from above ("we must squash these investigations"), a more sinister corporate culture (c.f. 'institutional racism'), council involvement, or something else?
What made the police force go wrong on such a grand scale?
Its extremely easy.. they were too scared of being called racist to do their job properly
Nick Griffin called it about 8 years ago, and got taken to court for racial hatred
Working in a politically correct environment, for an institution that had been told its every decision had roots in racism, how difficult must it be to side with the leader of the BNP with the risk of losing your job?
Look up Jahingar Akhtar on Rotherham politics website
Isn't that the problem, Mr. Divvie? Everyone has their own idea of what Devomax is that actually a debate about whether it should happen is pretty much worthless. Furthermore if Scotland does vote No then there is going to be even more acrimony about whatever new powers are granted (too much, too few etc.).
From here the best solution is a Yes vote. Independence is going to happen eventually, Devomax (whatever it ends up meaning) will just be another stepping stone as was Devolution, let us just split.
Mebbes, but it's pretty depressing how the 'max' part of the term is endlessly abused.
But it makes sense, as all the scares about mortgages, pensions, jobs, currency, bank deposits, have suddenly become VERY real as the markets have got spooked. It's been all over the papers.
And we know women are more risk-averse than men, so they are more likely to be spooked by this stuff.
I have had some twitter exchanges today with a Yes supporter, who still reckons the statement from Standard Life was scaremongering, and they were bluffing.
Of course she lives in London...
I thought that was a fatuously stupid remark by Salmond "Standard Life are lying", is what he said, in effect. He callied their statement "Nonsense" and "scaremongering".
Scaremongering. Again. Can he really use this word all the way through to Sept 18?
He should have said Yes a few tiny offices may go but with lower corporation tax they will be back in a week.
This is most of the board of Standard Life:
Garry Grimstone, Chairman, “lead non-executive” at the Ministry of Defence, London
Keith Skeoch, Executive Director, right wing political lobbyist
Crawford Gillies, Non Executive Director, Chairman of Control Risk Group, of London, the “security consultancy” of choice for ex MI5 and MI6 officers
Noel Harwerth, non-executive Director, Director of “London First” – [Honestly, I am not making this up]
David Nish – Chief Executive, Member of the “UK Strategy Committee” of “TheCity UK”. “TheCity UK” being a body of the City of London.
John Paynter, non-executive Director, was vice chairman of JP Morgan Cazenove until the 2008 crash.
From Craig Murray's blog.
exactly a bunch of tory arse licking halfwitted cretins, when do we get our gongs Dave twunks.
And whatever they're called they will move 92% or so of Std Life's business south. I am a trustee of our pension fund at work ( with Std Life as it happens). We have already decided it is our legal duty to move that fund out of Scotland in the event of independence for the security of our members. 100% certain. If Std Life do it for us fine, no problem. If not we'll do it with someone else. Same applies to the actuary based in Edinburgh that we use. In the event of independence he moves or we will do it for him. This is the reality. Our ( 95% Welsh as it happens) members don't give a stuff about Salmond's fantasy, and we have to respond to that as trustees.
Thank you for the welcomes. I feel so passionate about this I thought I'd put my head above the parapet. I have been shaken a bit in the last few days by a few people who were solid No changing to Yes. They seem to believe we will get currency union, because Alex Salmond keeps saying it. Also his scaremongering on the NHS is resonating.
Stick to your guns, get out there and good luck for what you believe. Tell your friends Salmond's peddling nonsense on the currency. It's not in his gift or even the Scottish people's gift to get one. It's rUK's decision, and rUK's people in my view will not have it, not out of spite but self interest. We don't want to be a Germany to an Ireland. EVERYONE I've had a talk about in this is solidly behind not sharing our currency, and I'm not in deep UKIP or a Tory Middle England shires I can just about see the Milennium Stadium in Cardiff from the house. Thank you for your support. I too think rUK would be mad to consider a currency union and I hope they wouldn't cave in, even if I am stuck in Scotland after a Yes vote! It's. Very scary time for us Unionists up here and I have to admit were were too complacent about a No vote.
@SeanT One can only hope no one digs through your list of diatribes, and discovers your normal view of Scots and Scotland.
Hah. Go on then, feel free, knock yerself out - most of the salty, sassy, rather smart Scots I know will take them for the ridiculous humour that they clearly represent.
I LOVE Scotland, I admire Scots enormously. I have set my next book - my most important, and probably my best - in one of my favourite place, a small humble island, off southern Skye, in Scotland, owned by a friend of mine - which I have been regularly visiting since I was 21.
My Scottish relatives will also take my barbs in the right spirit, likewise, I hope, the half Scottish mother of my beloved, quarter Scottish daughter. Here she is:
Your daughter, SeanT, will still be a quarter Scottish even after a YES outcome. Has the whole of Britain gone stark raving bonkers?
I was going to ask if it is Soay, Muck, or Eilean Iarmain - but ignore that if it is rude/ you don't want to let the cat ut of the bag (certainly can't be Rum, Eigg or Canna).
He who hath no stomach for this fight let him depart. His (UK) passport will be made out....
Seriously, any PBer in Scotland or with friends and relatives in it. Have you got anything more important to do than to save your country in the next 7 days? BT needs you now. Your country needs you now. Get out and help.
I totally agree. But I think I am best employed using my major skill - which, such as it is - happens to be writing and polemic. I have done blogs in the last couple of days, and I've a Speccie article coming out, and I am planning a blog tomorrow or soon after in the Telegraph.
I am surely preaching to the converted but - especially with the blogs - there is always the chance they might go viral. Even if I can convert ten people, who then tell ten other people, each, then I've done my best.
Right now I think the main thing is to show Salmond for the liar he is. I will try to do that.
All Scots know Salmond is a liar. Some don't care because they want independence more than anything which is fair enough. Cameron was, for once , spot on today. Scots need to be reminded why they should love their country and want to remain a part of it. Giving Scots the choice of head and heart was always pretty stupid. We need to fight for the heart and soul of this country. Patriotism is not about pounds and pence. It is insulting to think it is.
David, you really sound desperate now, put away your violin , get a new hanky and put the stopper on the bottle. Tired and emotional is fine but maudlin is pathetic. Patriotic my arse.
SeanT - whatever the council were doing, or not as the case may be, the job of preventing crime is ultimately up to the police. I still think that is the biggest mystery in all this.
I suspect collusion between police and council. They covered it up together. I now believe, as I said, that this will end in criminal prosecutions.
It ought to, whether it will or not is another matter. We already have allegations in the public domain of corrupt behaviour by officers whose identity is known, yet no arrests have been made, no suspensions from duty have taken place. We have astonishing admissions in Parliament today one of which you quoted up-thread.
However, what we don't have is any energy in actually putting together a criminal investigation into those who were responsible for the cover-ups and conspiracies to pervert the course of justice. Just a lot of enquiries that really are just a means of knocking the whole thing into the long grass.
To be honest, if there were arrests or suspensions at this stage then I'd be tempted to think they were fall guys, with the real culprits hiding behind them.
People will be in severe CYA mode. Certainly the ex-chief constable Meredydd Hughes has serious questions to answer, as do the HMIC for stating SYP was a 'most improved' force during his time.
I'd rather get the right people soon than the easy people now. They're not going anywhere.
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Lurking since 2004? You must have the patience of a saint!
I have no objections to you being a Tory, but the "agreeing ... with Gordon Brown" is a bit dicy!!!
;-)
I hope you can persuade lots of your friends to vote NO
I did post a couple of times before the last GE but I scurried off after a bit of abuse. But I have to say that I found Gordon Brown very moving . Jim Murphy, completely changed my opinion of him, and I was horrified yesterday when I heard Cameron was coming to Scotland but I think he did OK.
I agree, I was surprised by Brown to a degree. I've always given him a real kicking (when I say always, I suppose in the 12 years since I end been old enough to vote!) he came across with a passion in his voice that felt like a real shot in the arm.
Cameron was ok. I too was really nervous. His 'effing' Tory line was pretty good I thought.
He who hath no stomach for this fight let him depart. His (UK) passport will be made out....
Seriously, any PBer in Scotland or with friends and relatives in it. Have you got anything more important to do than to save your country in the next 7 days? BT needs you now. Your country needs you now. Get out and help.
they get ever more desperate these no hopers
Is there something wrong with throwing everything and the kitchen sink at something one supports a great deal? Sure, it's desperate, finally people have woken up to the fact that 'Crap, Yes actually have a lot of support, momentum and talent, we need to do something' , but this was always likely to end in an undignified, knock down brawl. If it won't, the aftermath certainly will be.
Pity they did not have the brains to do it earlier
George Galloway (@georgegalloway) 10/09/2014 18:06 I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded
If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
Why on Earth would Yes force Galloway out? Almost guaranteed to say something ludicrous and quote possibly downright offensive.
He who hath no stomach for this fight let him depart. His (UK) passport will be made out....
Seriously, any PBer in Scotland or with friends and relatives in it. Have you got anything more important to do than to save your country in the next 7 days? BT needs you now. Your country needs you now. Get out and help.
they get ever more desperate these no hopers
Is there something wrong with throwing everything and the kitchen sink at something one supports a great deal? Sure, it's desperate, finally people have woken up to the fact that 'Crap, Yes actually have a lot of support, momentum and talent, we need to do something' , but this was always likely to end in an undignified, knock down brawl. If it won't, the aftermath certainly will be.
Pity they did not have the brains to do it earlier
But it makes sense, as all the scares about mortgages, pensions, jobs, currency, bank deposits, have suddenly become VERY real as the markets have got spooked. It's been all over the papers.
And we know women are more risk-averse than men, so they are more likely to be spooked by this stuff.
I have had some twitter exchanges today with a Yes supporter, who still reckons the statement from Standard Life was scaremongering, and they were bluffing.
Of course she lives in London...
I thought that was a fatuously stupid remark by Salmond "Standard Life are lying", is what he said, in effect. He callied their statement "Nonsense" and "scaremongering".
Scaremongering. Again. Can he really use this word all the way through to Sept 18?
He should have said Yes a few tiny offices may go but with lower corporation tax they will be back in a week.
This is most of the board of Standard Life:
Garry Grimstone, Chairman, “lead non-executive” at the Ministry of Defence, London
Keith Skeoch, Executive Director, right wing political lobbyist
Crawford Gillies, Non Executive Director, Chairman of Control Risk Group, of London, the “security consultancy” of choice for ex MI5 and MI6 officers
Noel Harwerth, non-executive Director, Director of “London First” – [Honestly, I am not making this up]
David Nish – Chief Executive, Member of the “UK Strategy Committee” of “TheCity UK”. “TheCity UK” being a body of the City of London.
John Paynter, non-executive Director, was vice chairman of JP Morgan Cazenove until the 2008 crash.
From Craig Murray's blog.
exactly a bunch of tory arse licking halfwitted cretins, when do we get our gongs Dave twunks.
And whatever they're called they will move 92% or so of Std Life's business south. I am a trustee of our pension fund at work ( with Std Life as it happens). We have already decided it is our legal duty to move that fund out of Scotland in the event of independence for the security of our members. 100% certain. If Std Life do it for us fine, no problem. If not we'll do it with someone else. Same applies to the actuary based in Edinburgh that we use. In the event of independence he moves or we will do it for him. This is the reality. Our ( 95% Welsh as it happens) members don't give a stuff about Salmond's fantasy, and we have to respond to that as trustees.
Big deal , go make the pension funds lots of money as they skim fools swapping their money , glad I am not in a pension fund run by idiots like you. I am sure we don't give a toss about your welsh members either.
@malcolmg I have no idea, but I am willing to believe him and his wife until proved otherwise. It is the decent thing, and stops me looking like an absolute idiot.
@SeanT One can only hope no one digs through your list of diatribes, and discovers your normal view of Scots and Scotland.
My Scottish relatives will also take my barbs in the right spirit, likewise, I hope, the half Scottish mother of my beloved, quarter Scottish daughter. Here she is:
One possibility for the strong No vote among the over 60s is that many of them will have children living in England, Wales or Northern Ireland and have no desire to see their grandchildren growing up in another country.
Certainly, if my parents were wavering or Yes voters this is what I would be pointing out to them.
@malcolmg Malcolm, give it a rest? I have had several run ins with Jack, and many others on here, but if they have a misfortune in their lives, I am genuinely sympathetic. Humanity is above politics.
You mean he is ill an its not another of his fake mince pathetic polemics.
Oh Yuck! And clowns like this want to run an iScotland.
And whatever they're called they will move 92% or so of Std Life's business south. I am a trustee of our pension fund at work ( with Std Life as it happens). We have already decided it is our legal duty to move that fund out of Scotland in the event of independence for the security of our members. 100% certain. If Std Life do it for us fine, no problem. If not we'll do it with someone else. Same applies to the actuary based in Edinburgh that we use. In the event of independence he moves or we will do it for him. This is the reality. Our ( 95% Welsh as it happens) members don't give a stuff about Salmond's fantasy, and we have to respond to that as trustees.
Similar considerations would apply to banks lending to Scottish customers I guess. How could they have confidence that loans could be repaid if they didn't know what currency customers would be paid in or its value in sterling terms? Most lenders would shut up shop at least temporarily until the currency question was resolved.
I was discussing Rotheram with a neighbour, an ex policeman, and after an initial defence of the force, even he had to admit that something corrupt that way went.
As was the case with Plebgate, only fools would believe otherwise.
I've got no doubt the majority of the police are well-intentioned and do a good job - certainly, they performed excellently when they dealt with me last year. There will be corrupt officers, incompetents and ner-do-wells, but these are almost certainly in the minority.
So the question is: what happened that made this possible? Was it command from above ("we must squash these investigations"), a more sinister corporate culture (c.f. 'institutional racism'), council involvement, or something else?
What made the police force go wrong on such a grand scale?
Its extremely easy.. they were too scared of being called racist to do their job properly
Nick Griffin called it about 8 years ago, and got taken to court for racial hatred
Working in a politically correct environment, for an institution that had been told its every decision had roots in racism, how difficult must it be to side with the leader of the BNP with the risk of losing your job?
Look up Jahingar Akhtar on Rotherham politics website
That as an excuse for keeping your head down and not making waves sort of works. Except any copper that did that would be in breach of his/her oath and so should be sacked as a matter of course. However, some of the allegations go much further and pertain to actual acts to suppress evidence and intimidate witnessed, for that their can be no excuse.
I was discussing Rotheram with a neighbour, an ex policeman, and after an initial defence of the force, even he had to admit that something corrupt that way went.
As was the case with Plebgate, only fools would believe otherwise.
I've got no doubt the majority of the police are well-intentioned and do a good job - certainly, they performed excellently when they dealt with me last year. There will be corrupt officers, incompetents and ner-do-wells, but these are almost certainly in the minority.
So the question is: what happened that made this possible? Was it command from above ("we must squash these investigations"), a more sinister corporate culture (c.f. 'institutional racism'), council involvement, or something else?
What made the police force go wrong on such a grand scale?
Its extremely easy.. they were too scared of being called racist to do their job properly
Nick Griffin called it about 8 years ago, and got taken to court for racial hatred
Working in a politically correct environment, for an institution that had been told its every decision had roots in racism, how difficult must it be to side with the leader of the BNP with the risk of losing your job?
Look up Jahingar Akhtar on Rotherham politics website
Beware easy answers. I've no doubt that what you say was part of it, but I doubt it is the whole story. Blaming it on PC may hide other issues we need to learn from, and protect culprits.
For instance, there *may* have been collusion and conspiracy higher up in the force (with outside agencies), and those high heidyins used such fears as a tool to stop their officers from doing their jobs.
We just cannot know at the moment. And we need to know.
@malcolmg I have no idea, but I am willing to believe him and his wife until proved otherwise. It is the decent thing, and stops me looking like an absolute idiot.
Get a life , his fake posts as his wife or KW are just that , he is a fake.
Patriotism is not about pounds and pence. It is insulting to think it is.
Voting NO to protect the money in your bank account seems canny and sussed from where I'm standing.
Yes, you're all for that. Let us know when this gains traction and starts influencing votes up there.
It has already started. I just spent three days on the Isle of Lewis and spoke to several older people who wavered towards Yes in the past week (not because of poll figures but because the Yes campaigners are making much more effort and the No propaganda was seen as insulting) but who decided to keep with NO because they care about protecting their bank accounts.
And whatever they're called they will move 92% or so of Std Life's business south. I am a trustee of our pension fund at work ( with Std Life as it happens). We have already decided it is our legal duty to move that fund out of Scotland in the event of independence for the security of our members. 100% certain. If Std Life do it for us fine, no problem. If not we'll do it with someone else. Same applies to the actuary based in Edinburgh that we use. In the event of independence he moves or we will do it for him. This is the reality. Our ( 95% Welsh as it happens) members don't give a stuff about Salmond's fantasy, and we have to respond to that as trustees.
Similar considerations would apply to banks lending to Scottish customers I guess. How could they have confidence that loans could be repaid if they didn't know what currency customers would be paid in or its value in sterling terms? Most lenders would shut up shop at least temporarily until the currency question was resolved.
Will be plenty of banks ready to come in and mop up the business, we get rid of the English zombie banks and get real banks in their place.
I assume that there are ethnic Russians in the territory of Scotland. If Scotland bails from the UK, it will presumably also be out of NATO. So will the Russian military show up and take over the joint? Seems to be their MO these days.
@AllyM If you come drinking with us, we will mark you down as "undecided" anyway. And since you are a Tory, it is your round you rich b8sturd!
Seriously, are there no regular Slabbers on PB at all? I'd got some folk tentatively marked down as such, but for all I know they are with the Scottish Greens or Socialists ...
I was discussing Rotheram with a neighbour, an ex policeman, and after an initial defence of the force, even he had to admit that something corrupt that way went.
As was the case with Plebgate, only fools would believe otherwise.
I've got no doubt the majority of the police are well-intentioned and do a good job - certainly, they performed excellently when they dealt with me last year. There will be corrupt officers, incompetents and ner-do-wells, but these are almost certainly in the minority.
So the question is: what happened that made this possible? Was it command from above ("we must squash these investigations"), a more sinister corporate culture (c.f. 'institutional racism'), council involvement, or something else?
What made the police force go wrong on such a grand scale?
Its extremely easy.. they were too scared of being called racist to do their job properly
Nick Griffin called it about 8 years ago, and got taken to court for racial hatred
Working in a politically correct environment, for an institution that had been told its every decision had roots in racism, how difficult must it be to side with the leader of the BNP with the risk of losing your job?
Look up Jahingar Akhtar on Rotherham politics website
Beware easy answers. I've no doubt that what you say was part of it, but I doubt it is the whole story. Blaming it on PC may hide other issues we need to learn from, and protect culprits.
For instance, there *may* have been collusion and conspiracy higher up in the force (with outside agencies), and those high heidyins used such fears as a tool to stop their officers from doing their jobs.
We just cannot know at the moment. And we need to know.
I spelt the name wrong, Jahangir Akhtar
Taxi firm owner and ex Labour Councillor in Rotherham
@AllyM If you come drinking with us, we will mark you down as "undecided" anyway. And since you are a Tory, it is your round you rich b8sturd!
Seriously, are there no regular Slabbers on PB at all? I'd got some folk tentatively marked down as such, but for all I know they are with the Scottish Greens or Socialists ...
They are put of by the braying Tory frothers and go elsewhere
My Scottish relatives will also take my barbs in the right spirit, likewise, I hope, the half Scottish mother of my beloved, quarter Scottish daughter. Here she is:
Let us gird ourselves for the final battle, let us be like Beowulf, strapping on his sword, to slay the Grendel of Scottish Nationalism. We may not return from the mire. But the monster will breathe its last.
Patriotism is not about pounds and pence. It is insulting to think it is.
Voting NO to protect the money in your bank account seems canny and sussed from where I'm standing.
Unlucky for David who is loaded, most people would love to have money in their bank account.
Malcolm I am not loaded. I come from working class stock as does my wife. I earn reasonable money but that does not make me loaded (unfortunately). It's a cheap shot and if your various posts over the years have had any truth I suspect you are richer than me.
Let's put it this way. A guarantee of £85k will cover any bank account I have ever had several times over.
SeanT - whatever the council were doing, or not as the case may be, the job of preventing crime is ultimately up to the police. I still think that is the biggest mystery in all this.
I suspect collusion between police and council. They covered it up together. I now believe, as I said, that this will end in criminal prosecutions.
It ought to, whether it will or not is another matter. We already have allegations in the public domain of corrupt behaviour by officers whose identity is known, yet no arrests have been made, no suspensions from duty have taken place. We have astonishing admissions in Parliament today one of which you quoted up-thread.
However, what we don't have is any energy in actually putting together a criminal investigation into those who were responsible for the cover-ups and conspiracies to pervert the course of justice. Just a lot of enquiries that really are just a means of knocking the whole thing into the long grass.
To be honest, if there were arrests or suspensions at this stage then I'd be tempted to think they were fall guys, with the real culprits hiding behind them.
People will be in severe CYA mode. Certainly the ex-chief constable Meredydd Hughes has serious questions to answer, as do the HMIC for stating SYP was a 'most improved' force during his time.
I'd rather get the right people soon than the easy people now. They're not going anywhere.
Mr. J. In putting together a case against a conspiracy a standard tactic is you start of with the little people, they will give you the next level, and so on. However, there is no excuse for holding back on this we have senior people, police and council, in the frame already.
What is needed is some energy and drive from the top to get things moving. This is going to be a very big investigation, it will need a lot of people (none from South Yorks Police) and a lot of money. That cannot happen without the Home office behind it and so far all I have heard from Teresa May is the usual waffle.
My Scottish relatives will also take my barbs in the right spirit, likewise, I hope, the half Scottish mother of my beloved, quarter Scottish daughter. Here she is:
Let us gird ourselves for the final battle, let us be like Beowulf, strapping on his sword, to slay the Grendel of Scottish Nationalism. We may not return from the mire. But the monster will breathe its last.
Patriotism is not about pounds and pence. It is insulting to think it is.
Voting NO to protect the money in your bank account seems canny and sussed from where I'm standing.
Unlucky for David who is loaded, most people would love to have money in their bank account.
Malcolm I am not loaded. I come from working class stock as does my wife. I earn reasonable money but that does not make me loaded (unfortunately). It's a cheap shot and if your various posts over the years have had any truth I suspect you are richer than me.
Let's put it this way. A guarantee of £85k will cover any bank account I have ever had several times over.
David , I have no worries on bank accounts, I spend all my money. Mine is all in my pension luckily or I would have spent that as well. Don't take it all so seriously , it will be YES and life will go on.
I think National Health Action might dispute UKIP's claim to be the 'party of the NHS', but it's a decent leaflet.
It's a very decent leaflet. Though I did chuckle at the part about "UKIP will end maternity pay!" which refuted it by discussing the EU's role in Employment Law...and conspicuously failing to promise not to end maternity pay once it is back in British hands.
@malcolmg I have no idea, but I am willing to believe him and his wife until proved otherwise. It is the decent thing, and stops me looking like an absolute idiot.
Get a life , his fake posts as his wife or KW are just that , he is a fake.
New "Scot" Malcolmg used to pose as a Rangers supporter and disillusioned ex-Tory, unconvincingly.
@Carnyx I would have been one years ago, but Tony and his friends put the complete mockers on them for me.
Oh dear.
It's a shame our bidoversity is so deficient. One would have loved, so often this last few years, to be able to ask a real live slabber what on earth was going on.
But I have to say that I found Gordon Brown very moving . Jim Murphy, completely changed my opinion of him, and I was horrified yesterday when I heard Cameron was coming to Scotland but I think he did OK.
In a way I feel sorry for Gordon Brown. I think he is sincere in his own way but he seems to be such a prisoner of his politics. My youngest has a touch of Asperger's Syndrome and I can see many of the same traits in Gordon Brown so if he has that then I can understand why he struggles so much on the social side of things.
I actually think most politicians in this Country have the best of motives, whatever side the are on, and have the best of motives. I think they are much maligned and the media whip up the ant politician hysteria. Very discouraging for anyone thinking of going into politics.
Well I do care about my (Welsh) pension scheme members. Not only because I have to but because it's the right thing to do . These are salt of the earth factory workers in the main who want some security, dignity, and yes a bit of fun in their dotage to look forward to. So yes it bloody well matters and I will defend their hopes to the best of my ability. If that means cheesing off a load of misty eyed delusional folk in Scotland so be it. I'm not "running" the scheme, we are not bankers or financiers, we make things. I am a trustee. That means aching as a guardian, and that includes guarding the members' old age from delusional Scottish politicians. I make no apology for so doing.
@Carnyx Quite a few of the people who would "normally" be labour went to the SNP when they appeared to be more "left wing" than Tony's lot. Even more just got tired of the same crap, no matter who got into Downing Street. As I said downthread, "Yes" has far more passion behind it than most of the Labour "No's"
But I have to say that I found Gordon Brown very moving . Jim Murphy, completely changed my opinion of him, and I was horrified yesterday when I heard Cameron was coming to Scotland but I think he did OK.
In a way I feel sorry for Gordon Brown. I think he is sincere in his own way but he seems to be such a prisoner of his politics. My youngest has a touch of Asperger's Syndrome and I can see many of the same traits in Gordon Brown so if he has that then I can understand why he struggles so much on the social side of things.
I actually think most politicians in this Country have the best of motives, whatever side the are on, and have the best of motives. I think they are much maligned and the media whip up the ant politician hysteria. Very discouraging for anyone thinking of going into politics.
BAILED out banking giant Lloyds will move its HQ out of Scotland if the nation votes ‘Yes’, the Sun can reveal. The bank last night sensationally confirmed it was drawing up contingency plans to move south of the border - in a huge blow to Alex Salmond.
In the event of a “Yes” vote, the bank, which also owns Halifax and Bank of Scotland, would switch its registered office from Edinburgh to London.
And senior sources at Royal Bank of Scotland said tonight they too would almost certainly follow suit in a hugely symbolic move.
And still the LDs have further the fall. They get headlines, their support falls. They avoid headlines, their support falls. I used to think they'd managed to hold on to 40ish seats in 2015 thanks to clumps of support, but with such a drop even many fairly strong areas previously will be at risk. 30ish is now looking as good as they can hope for.
George Galloway (@georgegalloway) 10/09/2014 18:06 I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded
If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
Slimeball or not, it's outrageous that the SNP has been allowed to censor someone like that!
I was discussing Rotheram with a neighbour, an ex policeman, and after an initial defence of the force, even he had to admit that something corrupt that way went.
As was the case with Plebgate, only fools would believe otherwise.
I've got no doubt the majority of the police are well-intentioned and do a good job - certainly, they performed excellently when they dealt with me last year. There will be corrupt officers, incompetents and ner-do-wells, but these are almost certainly in the minority.
So the question is: what happened that made this possible? Was it command from above ("we must squash these investigations"), a more sinister corporate culture (c.f. 'institutional racism'), council involvement, or something else?
What made the police force go wrong on such a grand scale?
Its extremely easy.. they were too scared of being called racist to do their job properly
Nick Griffin called it about 8 years ago, and got taken to court for racial hatred
Working in a politically correct environment, for an institution that had been told its every decision had roots in racism, how difficult must it be to side with the leader of the BNP with the risk of losing your job?
Look up Jahingar Akhtar on Rotherham politics website
Is it possible that we could have a 'Highlights of Today's PB' page where those of us who actually work could see the best / funniest / most insightful comments made during the day.
"Men and women are best content when they can feel that they live in a stable world of enduring values. Conservatism, then, is not simply the concern of the people who have much property and influence; it is not simply the defense of privilege and status. Most conservatives are neither rich nor powerful. ... They have liberty, security of person and home, equal protection of the laws, the right to the fruits of their industry, and opportunity to do the best that is in them... Conservative principles shelter the hopes of everyone in society. And conservatism is a social concept important to everyone who desires equal justice and personal freedom and all the lovable old ways of humanity."
"Power is full of danger; therefore the good state is one in which power is checked and balanced, restricted by sound constitutions and customs. So far as possible, political power ought to be kept in the hands of private persons and local institutions. Centralization is ordinarily a sign of social decadence."
To which I think one only has to add a consideration of the individual as the primary mechanism for social improvement to have the basis of conservative thinking, of the sort with which few would disagree but some might de-prioritise.
Is it possible that we could have a 'Highlights of Today's PB' page where those of us who actually work could see the best / funniest / most insightful comments made during the day.
Similar to cricket highlights programs.
I'll ask Mike to bring back the like button.
If only you could multi-task, some of us can work and read PB.
But I have to say that I found Gordon Brown very moving . Jim Murphy, completely changed my opinion of him, and I was horrified yesterday when I heard Cameron was coming to Scotland but I think he did OK.
In a way I feel sorry for Gordon Brown. I think he is sincere in his own way but he seems to be such a prisoner of his politics. My youngest has a touch of Asperger's Syndrome and I can see many of the same traits in Gordon Brown so if he has that then I can understand why he struggles so much on the social side of things.
I actually think most politicians in this Country have the best of motives, whatever side the are on, and have the best of motives. I think they are much maligned and the media whip up the ant politician hysteria. Very discouraging for anyone thinking of going into politics.
Couldnt agree more.
As fun as it can be to get swept away by the hysteria, that's true enough. Sadly the politicians play to the media, and so live and die by it, but see politicians local or national, and despite the occasional sign of the worst aspects of political life, so many are decent minded and diligent whose successes are never acknowledged. There are good reasons to focus on the bad parts, but I try to be more reasonable now and then.
George Galloway (@georgegalloway) 10/09/2014 18:06 I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded
If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
Slimeball or not, it's outrageous that the SNP has been allowed to censor someone like that!
I agree. Why should the SNP get a veto on who's on question time?
Patriotism is not about pounds and pence. It is insulting to think it is.
Voting NO to protect the money in your bank account seems canny and sussed from where I'm standing.
Yes, you're all for that. Let us know when this gains traction and starts influencing votes up there.
It has already started. I just spent three days on the Isle of Lewis and spoke to several older people who wavered towards Yes in the past week (not because of poll figures but because the Yes campaigners are making much more effort and the No propaganda was seen as insulting) but who decided to keep with NO because they care about protecting their bank accounts.
It's a quaint but valuable PB tradition that before skittering off on some totally unverifiable anecdote to prove a political point, one identifies it as such.
George Galloway (@georgegalloway) 10/09/2014 18:06 I was the official NO voice on BBC QT tomorrow and the SNP have forced the invitation to be rescinded
If that is true, it's an outrage. I call on decent SNP PBers to condemn it.
Wow! The SNP have actually done something right. I cannot stand George Galloway. He is worse than my previous "Mr Slimeball" Chris Huhne.
Slimeball or not, it's outrageous that the SNP has been allowed to censor someone like that!
He hasn't been prevented from speaking - see the newspaper piece I posted earlier.
@Carnyx Quite a few of the people who would "normally" be labour went to the SNP when they appeared to be more "left wing" than Tony's lot. Even more just got tired of the same crap, no matter who got into Downing Street. As I said downthread, "Yes" has far more passion behind it than most of the Labour "No's"
That is certainly true, although it's noteworthy that when some in No do get passionate it is derided as merely being desperate, even though it is the former causing the latter, not something separate. No can be discouraged and depressed out of the fight, as we can see from many, including me, being so despondent about the future of the Union even if No wins, but Yes? Indefatigable. Hugely impressive even if it can be disconcerting and, since I'm on the opposite side, unfortunate.
Comments
If yes, tonight's is a bit critical.
BTW AngrySalmond on twitter is utterly, utterly hilarious. Best single thing about the whole campaign.
I've got no doubt the majority of the police are well-intentioned and do a good job - certainly, they performed excellently when they dealt with me last year. There will be corrupt officers, incompetents and ner-do-wells, but these are almost certainly in the minority.
So the question is: what happened that made this possible? Was it command from above ("we must squash these investigations"), a more sinister corporate culture (c.f. 'institutional racism'), council involvement, or something else?
What made the police force go wrong on such a grand scale?
Malcolm, give it a rest? I have had several run ins with Jack, and many others on here, but if they have a misfortune in their lives, I am genuinely sympathetic.
Humanity is above politics.
From here the best solution is a Yes vote. Independence is going to happen eventually, Devomax (whatever it ends up meaning) will just be another stepping stone as was Devolution, let us just split.
Inspired by Aggie D, I'm another lurker here, albeit, just the last few weeks.
Also a Scottish Conservative and already voted 'No' in the referendum. Might be worth pointing out I also like a wee gamble!
Anyway, as with Aggie, I too feel strongly and have really ramped up the visibility of my support in keeping of the Union the last couple weeks.
Looking forward to being a 'non-lurker'.
Nick Griffin called it about 8 years ago, and got taken to court for racial hatred
Working in a politically correct environment, for an institution that had been told its every decision had roots in racism, how difficult must it be to side with the leader of the BNP with the risk of losing your job?
Look up Jahingar Akhtar on Rotherham politics website
https://rotherhampolitics.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/ukip-leaflet-rshow-20141.jpg
People will be in severe CYA mode. Certainly the ex-chief constable Meredydd Hughes has serious questions to answer, as do the HMIC for stating SYP was a 'most improved' force during his time.
I'd rather get the right people soon than the easy people now. They're not going anywhere.
Cameron was ok. I too was really nervous. His 'effing' Tory line was pretty good I thought.
I have no idea, but I am willing to believe him and his wife until proved otherwise.
It is the decent thing, and stops me looking like an absolute idiot.
Certainly, if my parents were wavering or Yes voters this is what I would be pointing out to them.
Believe it or not, I've still got friends and, even a Wife!
For instance, there *may* have been collusion and conspiracy higher up in the force (with outside agencies), and those high heidyins used such fears as a tool to stop their officers from doing their jobs.
We just cannot know at the moment. And we need to know.
If you come drinking with us, we will mark you down as "undecided" anyway.
And since you are a Tory, it is your round you rich b8sturd!
A right-wing American's view of the prospect of Scottish independence:
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=26343
Contains some absolute corkers, including:
Though, I'm not sure a Retail worker can be viewed as rich
Taxi firm owner and ex Labour Councillor in Rotherham
http://rotherhampolitics.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/akhtara-spider-at-the-centre-of-the-taxi-trade-web/
2+2=....
Edit: interesting to see that the manifesto will be released at the conference. Is that the same for Con/LD/Lab?
I was slightly iritated as I was bouncing and angry baby on my knee as I manually worked out the excluding DK numbers
I would have been one years ago, but Tony and his friends put the complete mockers on them for me.
Let's put it this way. A guarantee of £85k will cover any bank account I have ever had several times over.
What is needed is some energy and drive from the top to get things moving. This is going to be a very big investigation, it will need a lot of people (none from South Yorks Police) and a lot of money. That cannot happen without the Home office behind it and so far all I have heard from Teresa May is the usual waffle.
It is just really fun.
It's a shame our bidoversity is so deficient. One would have loved, so often this last few years, to be able to ask a real live slabber what on earth was going on.
YouGov/Sun poll tonight: Labour have six point lead, Lib Dems equal lowest YouGov polling: CON 32% LAB 38% LD 6% UKIP 14% GRN 5%
Thanks to the wonderful chap that offered me 20/1 on the Greens outpolling the Yellow Peril
Feck.
Next to that the abusive rantings and ravings of a few embittered cybernats. Tells you everything you need to know, and why they will lose.
There is nothing wrong with a bit of common decency.
Well I do care about my (Welsh) pension scheme members. Not only because I have to but because it's the right thing to do . These are salt of the earth factory workers in the main who want some security, dignity, and yes a bit of fun in their dotage to look forward to. So yes it bloody well matters and I will defend their hopes to the best of my ability. If that means cheesing off a load of misty eyed delusional folk in Scotland so be it. I'm not "running" the scheme, we are not bankers or financiers, we make things. I am a trustee. That means aching as a guardian, and that includes guarding the members' old age from delusional Scottish politicians. I make no apology for so doing.
Quite a few of the people who would "normally" be labour went to the SNP when they appeared to be more "left wing" than Tony's lot. Even more just got tired of the same crap, no matter who got into Downing Street.
As I said downthread, "Yes" has far more passion behind it than most of the Labour "No's"
The bank last night sensationally confirmed it was drawing up contingency plans to move south of the border - in a huge blow to Alex Salmond.
In the event of a “Yes” vote, the bank, which also owns Halifax and Bank of Scotland, would switch its registered office from Edinburgh to London.
And senior sources at Royal Bank of Scotland said tonight they too would almost certainly follow suit in a hugely symbolic move.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5900504/lloyds-move-hq-scotland-yes-independence-referendum.html
Similar to cricket highlights programs.
Rather good passage:
"Men and women are best content when they can feel that they live in a stable world of enduring values. Conservatism, then, is not simply the concern of the people who have much property and influence; it is not simply the defense of privilege and status. Most conservatives are neither rich nor powerful. ... They have liberty, security of person and home, equal protection of the laws, the right to the fruits of their industry, and opportunity to do the best that is in them... Conservative principles shelter the hopes of everyone in society. And conservatism is a social concept important to everyone who desires equal justice and personal freedom and all the lovable old ways of humanity."
"Power is full of danger; therefore the good state is one in which power is checked and balanced, restricted by sound constitutions and customs. So far as possible, political power ought to be kept in the hands of private persons and local institutions. Centralization is ordinarily a sign of social decadence."
To which I think one only has to add a consideration of the individual as the primary mechanism for social improvement to have the basis of conservative thinking, of the sort with which few would disagree but some might de-prioritise.
If only you could multi-task, some of us can work and read PB.
There has been a lot of hype, not sure the Yes campaign has proved its case.