@HurstLlama That is the worst part about it, a decisive vote either way I could come to terms with, but if it is close, and I think it will be, it will fester on like an infected wound between us.
A narrow YES would be fine, from down here at any rate. You would be on your way and we just have to, jointly, deal with consequences. A narrow No vote would be awful, as you say a festering wound for years to come, made worse by idiots like Cameron trying to apply more one sided devolution, leading to more strife, more ill-feeling. An awful situation.
I agree with both of you. I hope for either a YES or a wide margin win for NO. Anything else will just fuel resentment.
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?
One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland. Your canvas returns must tell you the same.
I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?
I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
I think Blether Together would welcome your help, especially on the 18th when there will be a massive effort to contact everyone who has told us they are voting no and to make sure they have voted. Check out their website. It is reasonably user friendly.
And yet on this thread we are openly discussing the prospect of labour potentially losing a by-election where any government in waiting should be romping home with an increased majority.
Who do you think will be PM in GE2015?
Jeeeeesus. Probably Ed Miliband. Your problem isn't being wrong, it's being unbelievably boring.
Thanks. I am an accountant you know.
Hows your latest 23 month trend graph coming along
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?
One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland. Your canvas returns must tell you the same.
I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?
I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
I've registered just to reply to this; the best thing you can do is go to Scotland and campaign. I'm a card-carrying Tory who will be driving up to the Scottish Borders with a Labour Party friend for the weekend to canvass for Better Together. We're confident that the only people who won't listen to us because we sound English are Salmond's acolytes, who will never change their minds. If that's a more widespread belief, then the Union is already over.
I don;t know. But what I do think is that the political sands are shifting quickly and dramatically. And I don;t think they are shifting in labour's direction.
Look at Scotland. Labour clearly does not retain the confidence of its vast swathe of voters there
A dear departed comrade might look at that post, then reference the YouGov trend, and then say "polling vs PB Tory anecdote"
Honest independence is fine. The snake oil version will make a lot of ordinary folk's lives worse than they need be.
That's my view more or less. There's an honest case to be made for independence, and some may be so die hard they'll go for it no matter what the consequences may be, but the SNP are winging it and not being straight. Simply claiming everybody else is bluffing is not an answer.
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?
One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland. Your canvas returns must tell you the same.
I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?
I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
I've registered just to reply to this; the best thing you can do is go to Scotland and campaign. I'm a card-carrying Tory who will be driving up to the Scottish Borders with a Labour Party friend for the weekend to canvass for Better Together. We're confident that the only people who won't listen to us because we sound English are Salmond's acolytes, who will never change their minds. If that's a more widespread belief, then the Union is already over.
If you can't travel up, then Blether Together!
Welcome (and not just to the site). We want a group hug Quebec style this week.
Looking at the survation tables there is some interesting data. Almost every opinion poll has shown more No voters on raw numbers than the weighted number. The weightings may have worked well for party elections but do they work well for referendums?
I think pollsters are applying weightings for at least two different reasons.
Firstly, their sample may have different demographics to eligible voters.
Secondly, their sample may have different demographics to those voters who voted in the previous general election.
If, as expected, the turnout in the referndum is much higher than in the previous general election maybe wieghtings applied for the first reason will increase acuracy more than those applied for the seond reason.
Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.
That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.
Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
Wings over Scotland?
Good one. But I was being serious, the hypothetical traffic appears to all be going one way at the moment.
Well it will do. 5m v 59m people. It's the reality of the world post a Yes that the Nats fail to acknowledge ( bluff bluster and bullying ). Now I'm sure most fervent Yes supporters are well aware of the reality but don't want to frighten off their more unsure potential voters till about ten o'clock next Thursday night. The only way a new Scotland would stem the gigantic sucking sound of people, capital, and business, leaving would be to introduce incentives to stay like competitive tax rates v England. But that means actually balancing the books or even real serious cuts and that's too scary to let on about isn't it?
Honest independence is fine. The snake oil version will make a lot of ordinary folk's lives worse than they need be.
Has anyone considered that the opposite may be true, and Scotland might get an economic boost from independence, born of the can-do attitude and the rolling up of socks needed to make their new nation work?
Looks like we're getting to 'choose your dance partner' showtime.
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal 4 mins Am hearing that Martin Gilbert, CEO of Aberdeen Asset Management, is going to come out in favour of independence tomorrow #indyref
Oh, God. Robertson on Newsnight. Hold on to your hats.
His opponent is talking complete crap about Typhoons. Taking into account the costs of maintenance, training, procurement, and certification running a fleet of them the size that iScotland proposes having is unaffordable.
Quite right, but as we have mentioned before the whole iScotland defence plan is a complete nonsense.
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?
One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland. Your canvas returns must tell you the same.
I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?
I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
I think Blether Together would welcome your help, especially on the 18th when there will be a massive effort to contact everyone who has told us they are voting no and to make sure they have voted. Check out their website. It is reasonably user friendly.
When Cameron puts his back into something, he is a formidable campaigner. Look at AV. It was largely he who left it smashed and broken on the rocks.
Completely agree. Which is why it was a mistake to give him such a back seat in this. Having the PM of the UK apparently indifferent was very poor tactics by BT. We were left with leadership which thinks the UK is nothing to be proud of, that having a Tory/Lib Dem coalition is something of a disaster and who are trapped by the ridiculous hyperbole of their party on matter such as the NHS, Social Security and the economy.
None of this has helped BT put forward a positive message and it has made the tone of their campaign more negative than it should have been. I am a part of it but there are times when I think Scots will vote no despite BT, not because of it.
I agree. I was one of the few posters who thought it was a good idea he got stuck in yesterday and today.
Also calling himself an effing Tory was a master stroke, a funny way of neutralising the issue.
PS. What happened to drawing this "sting" of which the SNP spoke tonight? It seems they're getting stung all over the place.
Some of the smarter SNP supporters on here, such as Stuart Dickson, lamented that they had taken the lead too early. From there it was either a tidal wave or a backlash. Fortunately we seem to be getting more of the latter.
I've also noticed that lots of political people from my university days are taking the train to Glasgow or Edinburgh this weekend to help BT, even if they are no longer politically active in the sense of being a party activist. Has anyone else experienced this?
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?
One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland. Your canvas returns must tell you the same.
I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?
I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
I've registered just to reply to this; the best thing you can do is go to Scotland and campaign. I'm a card-carrying Tory who will be driving up to the Scottish Borders with a Labour Party friend for the weekend to canvass for Better Together. We're confident that the only people who won't listen to us because we sound English are Salmond's acolytes, who will never change their minds. If that's a more widespread belief, then the Union is already over.
If you can't travel up, then Blether Together!
Welcome (and not just to the site). We want a group hug Quebec style this week.
Is an event like this being arranged at the weekend or next week? If not, why not?
I could potentially travel up on the train for this at the weekend.
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?
One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland. Your canvas returns must tell you the same.
I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?
I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
I've registered just to reply to this; the best thing you can do is go to Scotland and campaign. I'm a card-carrying Tory who will be driving up to the Scottish Borders with a Labour Party friend for the weekend to canvass for Better Together. We're confident that the only people who won't listen to us because we sound English are Salmond's acolytes, who will never change their minds. If that's a more widespread belief, then the Union is already over.
If you can't travel up, then Blether Together!
Welcome (and not just to the site). We want a group hug Quebec style this week.
I'm sure Easterhouse is getting IDS withdrawal symptoms. Why not give them at try?
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?
One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland. Your canvas returns must tell you the same.
I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?
I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
I've registered just to reply to this; the best thing you can do is go to Scotland and campaign. I'm a card-carrying Tory who will be driving up to the Scottish Borders with a Labour Party friend for the weekend to canvass for Better Together. We're confident that the only people who won't listen to us because we sound English are Salmond's acolytes, who will never change their minds. If that's a more widespread belief, then the Union is already over.
If you can't travel up, then Blether Together!
Good for you mate. Where are you heading? I lived for a few years in Peebles.
A dear departed comrade might look at that post, then reference the YouGov trend, and then say "polling vs PB Tory anecdote"
Well true, but the nats on this site were swearing the referendum would be very close, even when no were 22 points ahead....
I assume their opinions were based on anecdote.
And anyway its not just anecdote. It looks like many thousands of labour voters will vote to leave the union rather than stay with the prospect of a labour government just months away.
When Cameron puts his back into something, he is a formidable campaigner. Look at AV. It was largely he who left it smashed and broken on the rocks.
Completely agree. Which is why it was a mistake to give him such a back seat in this. Having the PM of the UK apparently indifferent was very poor tactics by BT. We were left with leadership which thinks the UK is nothing to be proud of, that having a Tory/Lib Dem coalition is something of a disaster and who are trapped by the ridiculous hyperbole of their party on matter such as the NHS, Social Security and the economy.
None of this has helped BT put forward a positive message and it has made the tone of their campaign more negative than it should have been. I am a part of it but there are times when I think Scots will vote no despite BT, not because of it.
I agree. I was one of the few posters who thought it was a good idea he got stuck in yesterday and today.
Also calling himself an effing Tory was a master stroke, a funny way of neutralising the issue.
PS. What happened to drawing this "sting" of which the SNP spoke tonight? It seems they're getting stung all over the place.
Is it just possible, in the event of a "no" vote, that Cameron's personal pitch to the Scottish people could be the start of something for the Tories in Scotland? A chance to finally move on from the Thatcher legacy? And even more so if there is a mini implosion in the SNP ranks - who must surely have hoovered up some of the former historic Tory/right wing vote in Scotland over the last 20 years?
When was the last time an English Conservative politician came to Scotland and made a genuinely emotional appeal to Scottish public opinion? At a push Major in 1997, but even there he was talking about process, slippery slope etc etc.
Re NHS in Scotland and privatization/TTIP (thanks to @CalJamieson on Twitter). Signed by several dozen, presumably medics (I recognise one or two of the names and I'm not one).
Desperate stuff from Yes. They make this claim:
"The NHS in Scotland is now very different from that in the rest of the UK. It is increasingly under threat because of funding cuts from Westminster."
Which is a lie given that the Scottish government themselves say this about the NHS Scotland budget:
"Resource funding has increased by £284.6million in 2014-15....This is the full amount of budget consequentials arising from the increase to health in England"
The Scottish National party and the yes campaign it dominates want independence at any price. They place so much weight on optimism at any cost that we find ourselves – a nation once respected for its emphasis on reason and common sense – in a position where healthy scepticism and inconvenient truths are demonised as scaremongering lies. Their refusal to countenance struggle let alone failure, and their unquenchable belief in Scotland’s capacity to prevail whatever the challenges thrown at it, remind me of George Orwell’s acerbic view of nationalism – a philosophy always on the lookout for slights and driven by “blind zeal and indifference to reality”.
Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.
That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.
Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
Wings over Scotland?
Good one. But I was being serious, the hypothetical traffic appears to all be going one way at the moment.
Well it will do. 5m v 59m people. It's the reality of the world post a Yes that the Nats fail to acknowledge ( bluff bluster and bullying ). Now I'm sure most fervent Yes supporters are well aware of the reality but don't want to frighten off their more unsure potential voters till about ten o'clock next Thursday night. The only way a new Scotland would stem the gigantic sucking sound of people, capital, and business, leaving would be to introduce incentives to stay like competitive tax rates v England. But that means actually balancing the books or even real serious cuts and that's too scary to let on about isn't it?
Honest independence is fine. The snake oil version will make a lot of ordinary folk's lives worse than they need be.
Has anyone considered that the opposite may be true, and Scotland might get an economic boost from independence, born of the can-do attitude and the rolling up of socks needed to make their new nation work?
What's to stop that happening now? Perhaps they've been getting too many 'Barnett Bungs' from the south? Has that held things back?
Even in the event of a 'No' vote, that new found energy and enthusiasm can be put to use.
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?
One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland. Your canvas returns must tell you the same.
I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?
I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
I've registered just to reply to this; the best thing you can do is go to Scotland and campaign. I'm a card-carrying Tory who will be driving up to the Scottish Borders with a Labour Party friend for the weekend to canvass for Better Together. We're confident that the only people who won't listen to us because we sound English are Salmond's acolytes, who will never change their minds. If that's a more widespread belief, then the Union is already over.
If you can't travel up, then Blether Together!
Welcome (and not just to the site). We want a group hug Quebec style this week.
Thanks I've been reading your canvassing tales for the last few weeks, and was finally inspired to do some myself!
Do you know if BT are going to organise a unity rally in Edinburgh or Glasgow, Quebec 1995 style? It would be crazy if they didn't.
Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.
That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.
Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
Wings over Scotland?
Good one. But I was being serious, the hypothetical traffic appears to all be going one way at the moment.
Well it will do. 5m v 59m people. It's the reality of the world post a Yes that the Nats fail to acknowledge ( bluff bluster and bullying ). Now I'm sure most fervent Yes supporters are well aware of the reality but don't want to frighten off their more unsure potential voters till about ten o'clock next Thursday night. The only way a new Scotland would stem the gigantic sucking sound of people, capital, and business, leaving would be to introduce incentives to stay like competitive tax rates v England. But that means actually balancing the books or even real serious cuts and that's too scary to let on about isn't it?
Honest independence is fine. The snake oil version will make a lot of ordinary folk's lives worse than they need be.
Has anyone considered that the opposite may be true, and Scotland might get an economic boost from independence, born of the can-do attitude and the rolling up of socks needed to make their new nation work?
Yes, but nobody has made a convincing case for how it would happen. In the short to medium term it seems impossible that it could the outflows are just too big, Maybe after five years or so when some re-orientation has gone on then it could happen.
I don;t know. But what I do think is that the political sands are shifting quickly and dramatically. And I don;t think they are shifting in labour's direction.
Look at Scotland. Labour clearly does not retain the confidence of its vast swathe of voters there
We'll see. Labour appears to have timed its big push better than the SNP.
''which should reassure anyone at Better Together who was experiencing squeaky bum time'' --- It was this very blog as I recall that was shouting 'squeaky bum time'.
A poll is just an excuse for a howling headline. Do polls know what they are measuring? Do they care? Are polls really any more accurate than Sid the Octopus (or whatever his name was)? The fact that it is possible to trump that one poll 'got it right' only highlights all the polls that 'got it wrong'.
Is there any point to testing emotive public opinion that is subject to instant mood swings based on the pressure of the last and loudest howling headline?
Classy ... because that's what's important about this issue ... how it impacts on polls.
If Owls is anything like me, he merely wonders why the story gets endlessly reposted on here when anyone who wanted to could simply read it at source. If not for the impact on polling, why?
Even popped along to the Ed Balls, Labour driven BT campaign up here in Aberdeen on Monday.
I decided to openly show my support, as best I can. I admire those though who are really going the extra mile.
Good luck!
Ed Balls? Pah! I went and clapped Gordon bleeding Brown, a man who I think should probably be in jail for what he did to this country.
Desperate times.
Labour has a new contact system, obviously acquired from the Obama campaign, and they have emailed all members across the UK with a link enabling them log on and call Scottish voters. I don't know how many have responded but it's a very impressive system and will no doubt be deployed at the general election. FWIW I spoke to about 10 people, all but one of whom were solidly for no.
A lover of Ed Balls - I am not. Though I managed to find the desire to suppress any ill will and more than happily join in.
When Cameron puts his back into something, he is a formidable campaigner. Look at AV. It was largely he who left it smashed and broken on the rocks.
Completely agree. Which is why it was a mistake to give him such a back seat in this. Having the PM of the UK apparently indifferent was very poor tactics by BT. We were left with leadership which thinks the UK is nothing to be proud of, that having a Tory/Lib Dem coalition is something of a disaster and who are trapped by the ridiculous hyperbole of their party on matter such as the NHS, Social Security and the economy.
None of this has helped BT put forward a positive message and it has made the tone of their campaign more negative than it should have been. I am a part of it but there are times when I think Scots will vote no despite BT, not because of it.
I agree. I was one of the few posters who thought it was a good idea he got stuck in yesterday and today.
Also calling himself an effing Tory was a master stroke, a funny way of neutralising the issue.
PS. What happened to drawing this "sting" of which the SNP spoke tonight? It seems they're getting stung all over the place.
Is it just possible, in the event of a "no" vote, that Cameron's personal pitch to the Scottish people could be the start of something for the Tories in Scotland? A chance to finally move on from the Thatcher legacy? And even more so if there is a mini implosion in the SNP ranks - who must surely have hoovered up some of the former historic Tory/right wing vote in Scotland over the last 20 years?
When was the last time an English Conservative politician came to Scotland and made a genuinely emotional appeal to Scottish public opinion? At a push Major in 1997, but even there he was talking about process, slippery slope etc etc.
You might have something there. I've never believed Scots were intrinsically left-wing. Only where heavy industrial, ex-industrial areas naturally pushed them that way.
Many on the centre-right tactically vote for either Labour or SNP but around 25% of the population is potentially sympathetic. I think many gave up on the Tories because the Tories gave up on them and didn't seem to listen or care.
That has to change, can change and (hopefully) will change.
I don;t know. But what I do think is that the political sands are shifting quickly and dramatically. And I don;t think they are shifting in labour's direction.
Look at Scotland. Labour clearly does not retain the confidence of its vast swathe of voters there
We'll see. Labour appears to have timed its big push better than the SNP.
And yet on this thread we are openly discussing the prospect of labour potentially losing a by-election where any government in waiting should be romping home with an increased majority.
Who do you think will be PM in GE2015?
Jeeeeesus. Probably Ed Miliband. Your problem isn't being wrong, it's being unbelievably boring.
Thanks. I am an accountant you know.
Hows your latest 23 month trend graph coming along
Glad you asked. I pointed out down thread that this week so far has seen a sharp move to labour. That may feed in to a halt in the monthly trend. You see what I have done? An interesting change has occurred, and I have commented on it. You don't seem to recognise the concept of change, or interesting. If as seems likely ed does end up in Downing Street, your nightly Baxtering (which really and truly we can all do for ourselves) will have contributed exactly nothing to our understanding of how such a calamity can have occurred.
With all this Scotland business - pretty boring - it may slipped people's mind that the Labour Party's lead is soaring. It would be interesting to see Sunil on Sunday's ELBOW.
Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.
That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.
Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
Wings over Scotland?
Good one. But I was being serious, the hypothetical traffic appears to all be going one way at the moment.
Well it will do. 5m v 59m people. It's the reality of the world post a Yes that the Nats fail to acknowledge ( bluff bluster and bullying ). Now I'm sure most fervent Yes supporters are well aware of the reality but don't want to frighten off their more unsure potential voters till about ten o'clock next Thursday night. The only way a new Scotland would stem the gigantic sucking sound of people, capital, and business, leaving would be to introduce incentives to stay like competitive tax rates v England. But that means actually balancing the books or even real serious cuts and that's too scary to let on about isn't it?
Honest independence is fine. The snake oil version will make a lot of ordinary folk's lives worse than they need be.
Has anyone considered that the opposite may be true, and Scotland might get an economic boost from independence, born of the can-do attitude and the rolling up of socks needed to make their new nation work?
Yes. Roll your socks up and pull your sleeves up.Arbeit macht frei.
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?
One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland. Your canvas returns must tell you the same.
I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?
I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
I've registered just to reply to this; the best thing you can do is go to Scotland and campaign. I'm a card-carrying Tory who will be driving up to the Scottish Borders with a Labour Party friend for the weekend to canvass for Better Together. We're confident that the only people who won't listen to us because we sound English are Salmond's acolytes, who will never change their minds. If that's a more widespread belief, then the Union is already over.
If you can't travel up, then Blether Together!
Good for you mate. Where are you heading? I lived for a few years in Peebles.
Well, i was at boarding school near there.
We'll base ourselves in Greenlaw, but we'll go wherever we're wanted. Galashiels, Hawick and Duns await!
The Borders are the only county in GB that doesn't have a rail connection, so I don't think they'll get floods of cross-border volunteers. If you could get to Edinburgh or Glasgow I'm sure they'd be glad to have you. It's now or never!
Is it just possible, in the event of a "no" vote, that Cameron's personal pitch to the Scottish people could be the start of something for the Tories in Scotland? A chance to finally move on from the Thatcher legacy? And even more so if there is a mini implosion in the SNP ranks - who must surely have hoovered up some of the former historic Tory/right wing vote in Scotland over the last 20 years?
When was the last time an English Conservative politician came to Scotland and made a genuinely emotional appeal to Scottish public opinion? At a push Major in 1997, but even there he was talking about process, slippery slope etc etc
One static Survation and PB reaches SCon revival multiple orgasm?
C’est magnifique, mais ce n’est pas la guerre: c'est de la folie.
When Cameron puts his back into something, he is a formidable campaigner. Look at AV. It was largely he who left it smashed and broken on the rocks.
Completely agree. Which is why it was a mistake to give him such a back seat in this. Having the PM of the UK apparently indifferent was very poor tactics by BT. We were left with leadership which thinks the UK is nothing to be proud of, that having a Tory/Lib Dem coalition is something of a disaster and who are trapped by the ridiculous hyperbole of their party on matter such as the NHS, Social Security and the economy.
None of this has helped BT put forward a positive message and it has made the tone of their campaign more negative than it should have been. I am a part of it but there are times when I think Scots will vote no despite BT, not because of it.
I agree. I was one of the few posters who thought it was a good idea he got stuck in yesterday and today.
Also calling himself an effing Tory was a master stroke, a funny way of neutralising the issue.
PS. What happened to drawing this "sting" of which the SNP spoke tonight? It seems they're getting stung all over the place.
Is it just possible, in the event of a "no" vote, that Cameron's personal pitch to the Scottish people could be the start of something for the Tories in Scotland? A chance to finally move on from the Thatcher legacy? And even more so if there is a mini implosion in the SNP ranks - who must surely have hoovered up some of the former historic Tory/right wing vote in Scotland over the last 20 years?
When was the last time an English Conservative politician came to Scotland and made a genuinely emotional appeal to Scottish public opinion? At a push Major in 1997, but even there he was talking about process, slippery slope etc etc.
You might have something there. I've never believed Scots were intrinsically left-wing. Only where heavy industrial, ex-industrial areas naturally pushed them that way.
Many on the centre-right tactically vote for either Labour or SNP but around 25% of the population is potentially sympathetic. I think many gave up on the Tories because the Tories gave up on them and didn't seem to listen or care.
That has to change, can change and (hopefully) will change.
Mr Royale, The Conservatives have been progressively ignoring their natural supporters in England for decades, why do you think they will start listening to the same type of people in Scotland?
Even popped along to the Ed Balls, Labour driven BT campaign up here in Aberdeen on Monday.
I decided to openly show my support, as best I can. I admire those though who are really going the extra mile.
Good luck!
Ed Balls? Pah! I went and clapped Gordon bleeding Brown, a man who I think should probably be in jail for what he did to this country.
Desperate times.
Labour has a new contact system, obviously acquired from the Obama campaign, and they have emailed all members across the UK with a link enabling them log on and call Scottish voters. I don't know how many have responded but it's a very impressive system and will no doubt be deployed at the general election. FWIW I spoke to about 10 people, all but one of whom were solidly for no.
A lover of Ed Balls - I am not. Though I managed to find the desire to suppress any ill will and more than happily join in.
I even shook his hand!
Thank God, the Tory Merlin system is not being used ! Even some Tory Associations don't want to use it.
If there is a wide margin win for NO then I think that Cameron has to stand a better chance. Can you see Milliband making a galvanising comment like Cameron did?
2009 / 2010 was a long time ago (politically) I think we have forgotten how good Cameron is at ad-libbing public crowds and groups. Does anyone remember his "speaking tour"? It was something of a hit.
Oh, God. Robertson on Newsnight. Hold on to your hats.
His opponent is talking complete crap about Typhoons. Taking into account the costs of maintenance, training, procurement, and certification running a fleet of them the size that iScotland proposes having is unaffordable.
Quite right, but as we have mentioned before the whole iScotland defence plan is a complete nonsense.
Correct. The whole of the iScotland defence plan has been thought through with the same certainty as the iScotland currency plan and the iScotland central bank plan. Etc.
The fact that the media have allowed Salmond to swan through this campaign without direct questioning on just what currency he wants his new independent country to use or where its central bank will come from would be astonishing until younactually look at the media in question.
The SNP have grossly unterestimated the costs involved in sustaining a defence force of the size of say Norways. Like currency an iScotland defence is to be outsourced to England.
Royal Bank of Scotland will move its HQ from Edinburgh to London if its YES.
That's the Royal Bank of SCOTLAND.
Can anyone name a company that has said it will move TO Scotland if there is a yes vote?
Wings over Scotland?
Good one. But I was being serious, the hypothetical traffic appears to all be going one way at the moment.
Well it will do. 5m v 59m people. It's the reality of the world post a Yes that the Nats fail to acknowledge ( bluff bluster and bullying ). Now I'm sure most fervent Yes supporters are well aware of the reality but don't want to frighten off their more unsure potential voters till about ten o'clock next Thursday night. The only way a new Scotland would stem the gigantic sucking sound of people, capital, and business, leaving would be to introduce incentives to stay like competitive tax rates v England. But that means actually balancing the books or even real serious cuts and that's too scary to let on about isn't it?
Honest independence is fine. The snake oil version will make a lot of ordinary folk's lives worse than they need be.
Has anyone considered that the opposite may be true, and Scotland might get an economic boost from independence, born of the can-do attitude and the rolling up of socks needed to make their new nation work?
Yes, but nobody has made a convincing case for how it would happen. In the short to medium term it seems impossible that it could the outflows are just too big, Maybe after five years or so when some re-orientation has gone on then it could happen.
I agree with you there Hurst. I think some companies will (wrongly) push the panic button because they are controlled by the same hair-trigger short termists that sunk the City in 2008. But I reckon Scotland might well bounce back better. As I say, I desperately hope they stay but if I were Scots I'd be sorely tempted to go for it.
And yet on this thread we are openly discussing the prospect of labour potentially losing a by-election where any government in waiting should be romping home with an increased majority.
Who do you think will be PM in GE2015?
Jeeeeesus. Probably Ed Miliband. Your problem isn't being wrong, it's being unbelievably boring.
Thanks. I am an accountant you know.
Hows your latest 23 month trend graph coming along
Glad you asked. I pointed out down thread that this week so far has seen a sharp move to labour. That may feed in to a halt in the monthly trend. You see what I have done? An interesting change has occurred, and I have commented on it. You don't seem to recognise the concept of change, or interesting. If as seems likely ed does end up in Downing Street, your nightly Baxtering (which really and truly we can all do for ourselves) will have contributed exactly nothing to our understanding of how such a calamity can have occurred.
I believe you about the accountancy.
I think the YG monthly average for September is likely to be 4% lead for Lab.
In which case at the end of September (ie with 7 months left to GE 2015) the previous 7 months trend would be.
If there is a wide margin win for NO then I think that Cameron has to stand a better chance. Get you see Milliband making a galvanising comment like Cameron did?
2009 / 2010 was a long time ago (politically) I think we have forgotten how good Cameron is at ad-libbing public crowds and groups. Does anyone remember his "speaking tour"? It was something of a hit.
Yes, I do remember. Turned an "nailed on " election win into a coalition with the Liberals.
Is it just possible, in the event of a "no" vote, that Cameron's personal pitch to the Scottish people could be the start of something for the Tories in Scotland? A chance to finally move on from the Thatcher legacy? And even more so if there is a mini implosion in the SNP ranks - who must surely have hoovered up some of the former historic Tory/right wing vote in Scotland over the last 20 years?
When was the last time an English Conservative politician came to Scotland and made a genuinely emotional appeal to Scottish public opinion? At a push Major in 1997, but even there he was talking about process, slippery slope etc etc
One static Survation and PB reaches SCon revival multiple orgasm?
C’est magnifique, mais ce n’est pas la guerre: c'est de la folie.
One poll for Yes out of dozens had us descending into mob panic, it only seems consistent to get overexcited at a static No lead. How many Yes orgasms at polls finally living up to months of anecdotes?
Have I crossed the Rubicon? I find myself agreeing with IOS and Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy! I am a rare breed, a Scottish Tory, and I am so upset at the thought of a Yes vote. Also a lurker since around 2004.
Do something about it. This is crunch time. Go to the BT website. It will tell you all the events in your area within whatever mileage you are comfortable with. How will you feel if this goes the wrong way and you didn't do your bit?
One week. We can so this. But everyone needs to help. Better Together indeed.
Feet up and rest David. Survation says no. So do all the big business leaders in Scotland. Your canvas returns must tell you the same.
I don't have access to Scotland wide canvassing or even Dundee wide. The canvassing done by me and my family told me this was going to be seriously close when the likes of JackW and Robert were claiming it was going to be a walk in the park. I will be at a street stall Saturday and will try to canvass every day next week. I have taken Election Day off to help. I am under no illusions. This is going to be seriously close.
DavidL - as a "posh" southern English Tory, living in southern England, is there anything I can do to help?
I feel desperate to get involved, but don't know how. Not sure I'd be anything but counterproductive on Blether Together.
I've registered just to reply to this; the best thing you can do is go to Scotland and campaign. I'm a card-carrying Tory who will be driving up to the Scottish Borders with a Labour Party friend for the weekend to canvass for Better Together. We're confident that the only people who won't listen to us because we sound English are Salmond's acolytes, who will never change their minds. If that's a more widespread belief, then the Union is already over.
If you can't travel up, then Blether Together!
Welcome (and not just to the site). We want a group hug Quebec style this week.
Is an event like this being arranged at the weekend or next week? If not, why not?
I could potentially travel up on the train for this at the weekend.
I have sent an e-mail to my contacts at BT to see what is being organised in Edinburgh etc and will post something as soon as I have a reply. I agree something like this should be organised.
And yet on this thread we are openly discussing the prospect of labour potentially losing a by-election where any government in waiting should be romping home with an increased majority.
Who do you think will be PM in GE2015?
Jeeeeesus. Probably Ed Miliband. Your problem isn't being wrong, it's being unbelievably boring.
Thanks. I am an accountant you know.
Hows your latest 23 month trend graph coming along
Glad you asked. I pointed out down thread that this week so far has seen a sharp move to labour. That may feed in to a halt in the monthly trend. You see what I have done? An interesting change has occurred, and I have commented on it. You don't seem to recognise the concept of change, or interesting. If as seems likely ed does end up in Downing Street, your nightly Baxtering (which really and truly we can all do for ourselves) will have contributed exactly nothing to our understanding of how such a calamity can have occurred.
I believe you about the accountancy.
I think the YG monthly average for September is likely to be 4% lead for Lab.
In which case at the end of September (ie with 7 months left to GE 2015) the previous 7 months trend would be.
Is it just possible, in the event of a "no" vote, that Cameron's personal pitch to the Scottish people could be the start of something for the Tories in Scotland? A chance to finally move on from the Thatcher legacy? And even more so if there is a mini implosion in the SNP ranks - who must surely have hoovered up some of the former historic Tory/right wing vote in Scotland over the last 20 years?
When was the last time an English Conservative politician came to Scotland and made a genuinely emotional appeal to Scottish public opinion? At a push Major in 1997, but even there he was talking about process, slippery slope etc etc
One static Survation and PB reaches SCon revival multiple orgasm?
C’est magnifique, mais ce n’est pas la guerre: c'est de la folie.
One poll for Yes out of dozens had us descending into mob panic, it only seems consistent to get overexcited at a static No lead. How many Yes orgasms at polls finally living up to months of anecdotes?
Nah, nothing to do with the poll. Just pleased to finally see a politician making an emotional pitch for the Union which stretches way beyond economics and personal interest. Ironically, at the end of the day, English Tories are ultimately the only people who can make that pitch.
And yet on this thread we are openly discussing the prospect of labour potentially losing a by-election where any government in waiting should be romping home with an increased majority.
Who do you think will be PM in GE2015?
Jeeeeesus. Probably Ed Miliband. Your problem isn't being wrong, it's being unbelievably boring.
Thanks. I am an accountant you know.
Hows your latest 23 month trend graph coming along
Glad you asked. I pointed out down thread that this week so far has seen a sharp move to labour. That may feed in to a halt in the monthly trend. You see what I have done? An interesting change has occurred, and I have commented on it. You don't seem to recognise the concept of change, or interesting. If as seems likely ed does end up in Downing Street, your nightly Baxtering (which really and truly we can all do for ourselves) will have contributed exactly nothing to our understanding of how such a calamity can have occurred.
I believe you about the accountancy.
I think the YG monthly average for September is likely to be 4% lead for Lab.
In which case at the end of September (ie with 7 months left to GE 2015) the previous 7 months trend would be.
4,4,3,4,3,3,4.
Interesting
The sheer stability of that is quite something.
And yet we are to believe from some that the Tories will suddenly wipe that away.
@isam "What's important Is not letting anything get in the way of what's right" I think so too, and blaming it on one race or culture leaves other causes in the shadows. Investigate Rotherham and find out the why. But remember to look in all the grubby corners, they have a stench as well?
So that's *all* of the banks leaving in the event of a 'Yes', and a huge chunk of the pensions industry.
Things aren't looking too rosy.
Bluffing Tipping point
Scotland was facing financial turmoil yesterday, with banks and insurers reporting a growing number of customers worried about their cash as leading business figures warned against the consequences of separation.
As a stream of blue-chip companies broke cover to underline the risks of independence, Danny Alexander, the chief secretary to the Treasury, said that yesterday was Alex Salmond’s Black Wednesday, adding: “This is the day the economic case for separation died and reality that independence will cost jobs, investment, and growth dawned.”
If there is a wide margin win for NO then I think that Cameron has to stand a better chance. Can you see Milliband making a galvanising comment like Cameron did?
2009 / 2010 was a long time ago (politically) I think we have forgotten how good Cameron is at ad-libbing public crowds and groups. Does anyone remember his "speaking tour"? It was something of a hit.
You can get excellent odds of an outright Tory win on Betfair. If you really believe in your heart that will be the outcome make some money.
I have backed Labour biggest party to a massive extent and have a very small bet on Lab outright that reflects my confidence in the former but lack of confidence in the latter.
But it makes sense, as all the scares about mortgages, pensions, jobs, currency, bank deposits, have suddenly become VERY real as the markets have got spooked. It's been all over the papers.
And we know women are more risk-averse than men, so they are more likely to be spooked by this stuff.
I have had some twitter exchanges today with a Yes supporter, who still reckons the statement from Standard Life was scaremongering, and they were bluffing.
Of course she lives in London...
I thought that was a fatuously stupid remark by Salmond "Standard Life are lying", is what he said, in effect. He callied their statement "Nonsense" and "scaremongering".
Scaremongering. Again. Can he really use this word all the way through to Sept 18?
He should have said Yes a few tiny offices may go but with lower corporation tax they will be back in a week.
This is most of the board of Standard Life:
Garry Grimstone, Chairman, “lead non-executive” at the Ministry of Defence, London
Keith Skeoch, Executive Director, right wing political lobbyist
Crawford Gillies, Non Executive Director, Chairman of Control Risk Group, of London, the “security consultancy” of choice for ex MI5 and MI6 officers
Noel Harwerth, non-executive Director, Director of “London First” – [Honestly, I am not making this up]
David Nish – Chief Executive, Member of the “UK Strategy Committee” of “TheCity UK”. “TheCity UK” being a body of the City of London.
John Paynter, non-executive Director, was vice chairman of JP Morgan Cazenove until the 2008 crash.
From Craig Murray's blog.
exactly a bunch of tory arse licking halfwitted cretins, when do we get our gongs Dave twunks.
I have to admit I'm quite proud of you. Anybody suffering from the catastrophic brain injury you obviously battle with that can post as much, albeit, total crap as you do has to be admired.
@isam "What's important Is not letting anything get in the way of what's right" I think so too, and blaming it on one race or culture leaves other causes in the shadows. Investigate Rotherham and find out the why. But remember to look in all the grubby corners, they have a stench as well?
I'd look at rotherham councillors and rotherham taxi firms myself
Or is that stereotyping all taxi drivers and councillors?
Classy ... because that's what's important about this issue ... how it impacts on polls.
No whats important is that we dont stereotype Pakistanis as rapists.
I understand the right wing would like to do this for political advantage.
Fortunately the electorate think otherwise (or dont care?)
Who has tried to do that, Mr. Owls?
Actually, I think that the fact that at least 1400 children in one town (we know Rotherham was not an isolated example) were raped and abused and the people that were paid to protect them didn't do so and haven't yet been brought to justice for their failures is rather more important than any petty political point-scoring.
If anyone thinks the reputation of the political party of the people in charge at the time is more important than seeing justice done, then they are to pitied. This is an issue of simple justice not of party politics.
Can you see Milliband making a galvanising comment like Cameron did?
It's quite simple. There are two by-elections coming up where a government in waiting would be looking to gain momentum with big wins or very serious incursions into the government's home turf.
Are Ed's tanks on Dave's lawn in Clacton? How will Labour do in Greater Manchester?
@isam If the police in Rotherham would foreswear their oaths for bunch of local councilors, how much would they turn a blind eye for people with "real" power? Look in every corner?
@OliverCooper: RBS, Standard Life, Lloyds & Clydesdale all say they'd leave indy Scotland. Will the last bank to leave Scotland please turn out the lights?
@BBCBreaking: RBS confirms it has contingency plan to move its HQ from Scotland to London if there's a Yes vote in the referendum http://t.co/zpmZT9p4AC
@OliverCooper: RBS, Standard Life, Lloyds & Clydesdale all say they'd leave indy Scotland. Will the last bank to leave Scotland please turn out the lights?
Cant see Rupert running that one though seems to love Eck
Exactly. I;ve never read one post on this site that even hinted at stereotyping Pakistanis as anything.
Rotherham is being posted on here because it is and will continue to be apposite to the political debate. It's inconceivable it won;t be an issue in at least one by-election coming up, and many election battles in 2015.
@isam "What's important Is not letting anything get in the way of what's right" I think so too, and blaming it on one race or culture leaves other causes in the shadows. Investigate Rotherham and find out the why. But remember to look in all the grubby corners, they have a stench as well?
No, it doesn't. Blaming it on one cause doesn't mean other causes can't be looked at. What causes things to be left in the shadow is when an ideological desire to pretend all cultures are equal causes you to refuse to see the negative cultural effects that are playing a role here.
I rarely praise the guy but Danny Alexander walking rings around Emily Maitliss who seems obsessed about the relatively trivial point of whether he will resign after a 'yes' vote (I mean, who cares?).
I rarely praise the guy but Danny Alexander walking rings around Emily Maitliss who seems obsessed about the relatively trivial point of whether he will resign after a 'yes' vote (I mean, who cares?).
Typical journalistic cr@p. Easier to stick the knife into a perceived vulnerable individual than use some intelligence to disect an issue.
Can you see Milliband making a galvanising comment like Cameron did?
It's quite simple. There are two by-elections coming up where a government in waiting would be looking to gain momentum with big wins or very serious incursions into the government's home turf.
Are Ed's tanks on Dave's lawn in Clacton? How will Labour do in Greater Manchester?
Classy ... because that's what's important about this issue ... how it impacts on polls.
No whats important is that we dont stereotype Pakistanis as rapists.
I understand the right wing would like to do this for political advantage.
Fortunately the electorate think otherwise (or dont care?)
I'd have thought what's important here would be to fully investigate and diagnose the causes of the abuse and STOP MORE CHILDREN GETTING RAPED.
The idea that stereotyping, even unfair stereotyping, comes to mind as more important than that just shows how screwed up some people's ideologies are.
@Scott_P Media, buisness, all the other political parties, and commentators aimed at Eck and the nationalists. Like proud knights riding to the defence of the realm.. Avoid narrow river crossings, and don't pitch up on boggy ground. ;-)
Comments
Hows your latest 23 month trend graph coming along
Sheffield RallyYes victory party tonight...(Today's party did seem somewhat premature).
Firstly, their sample may have different demographics to eligible voters.
Secondly, their sample may have different demographics to those voters who voted in the previous general election.
If, as expected, the turnout in the referndum is much higher than in the previous general election maybe wieghtings applied for the first reason will increase acuracy more than those applied for the seond reason.
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal 4 mins
Am hearing that Martin Gilbert, CEO of Aberdeen Asset Management, is going to come out in favour of independence tomorrow #indyref
I could potentially travel up on the train for this at the weekend.
Well, i was at boarding school near there.
Well true, but the nats on this site were swearing the referendum would be very close, even when no were 22 points ahead....
I assume their opinions were based on anecdote.
And anyway its not just anecdote. It looks like many thousands of labour voters will vote to leave the union rather than stay with the prospect of a labour government just months away.
Not really 'labour' voters any more.
When was the last time an English Conservative politician came to Scotland and made a genuinely emotional appeal to Scottish public opinion? At a push Major in 1997, but even there he was talking about process, slippery slope etc etc.
Desperate stuff from Yes. They make this claim:
"The NHS in Scotland is now very different from that in the rest of the UK. It is increasingly under threat because of funding cuts from Westminster."
Which is a lie given that the Scottish government themselves say this about the NHS Scotland budget:
"Resource funding has increased by £284.6million in 2014-15....This is the full amount of budget consequentials arising from the increase to health in England"
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-scotlands-nhs-threat-westminster/18821
I'd be worried about getting treated by any of them.
Thank you for voting NO
Even in the event of a 'No' vote, that new found energy and enthusiasm can be put to use.
Let's see what happens - I hope something does.
I know I can be a pessimist where Dave is concerned, but look where, and under what circumstances he delivered his speech?
Do you know if BT are going to organise a unity rally in Edinburgh or Glasgow, Quebec 1995 style? It would be crazy if they didn't.
I understand the right wing would like to do this for political advantage.
Fortunately the electorate think otherwise (or dont care?)
A poll is just an excuse for a howling headline. Do polls know what they are measuring? Do they care? Are polls really any more accurate than Sid the Octopus (or whatever his name was)? The fact that it is possible to trump that one poll 'got it right' only highlights all the polls that 'got it wrong'.
Is there any point to testing emotive public opinion that is subject to instant mood swings based on the pressure of the last and loudest howling headline?
Even popped along to the Ed Balls, Labour driven BT campaign up here in Aberdeen on Monday.
I decided to openly show my support, as best I can. I admire those though who are really going the extra mile.
Good luck!
Ed Balls? Pah! I went and clapped Gordon bleeding Brown, a man who I think should probably be in jail for what he did to this country.
Desperate times.
Labour has a new contact system, obviously acquired from the Obama campaign, and they have emailed all members across the UK with a link enabling them log on and call Scottish voters. I don't know how many have responded but it's a very impressive system and will no doubt be deployed at the general election. FWIW I spoke to about 10 people, all but one of whom were solidly for no.
A lover of Ed Balls - I am not. Though I managed to find the desire to suppress any ill will and more than happily join in.
I even shook his hand!
Many on the centre-right tactically vote for either Labour or SNP but around 25% of the population is potentially sympathetic. I think many gave up on the Tories because the Tories gave up on them and didn't seem to listen or care.
That has to change, can change and (hopefully) will change.
Is it Tuesday 23rd and do we have a venue?
I believe you about the accountancy.
Seems to me its Cameron, the treasury and Scottish business that are doing the pushing.
Reassuring to see so many good motivated Unionists on here tonight. Keep fighting the good fight all.
The Borders are the only county in GB that doesn't have a rail connection, so I don't think they'll get floods of cross-border volunteers. If you could get to Edinburgh or Glasgow I'm sure they'd be glad to have you. It's now or never!
BluffingTipping PointWhat's important Is not letting anything get in the way of what's right
Hopefully the polls will move towards a party that doesn't put dogma first
C’est magnifique, mais ce n’est pas la guerre: c'est de la folie.
Desperate times.
Labour has a new contact system, obviously acquired from the Obama campaign, and they have emailed all members across the UK with a link enabling them log on and call Scottish voters. I don't know how many have responded but it's a very impressive system and will no doubt be deployed at the general election. FWIW I spoke to about 10 people, all but one of whom were solidly for no.
A lover of Ed Balls - I am not. Though I managed to find the desire to suppress any ill will and more than happily join in.
I even shook his hand!
Thank God, the Tory Merlin system is not being used ! Even some Tory Associations don't want to use it.
2009 / 2010 was a long time ago (politically) I think we have forgotten how good Cameron is at ad-libbing public crowds and groups. Does anyone remember his "speaking tour"? It was something of a hit.
The fact that the media have allowed Salmond to swan through this campaign without direct questioning on just what currency he wants his new independent country to use or where its central bank will come from would be astonishing until younactually look at the media in question.
The SNP have grossly unterestimated the costs involved in sustaining a defence force of the size of say Norways. Like currency an iScotland defence is to be outsourced to England.
A community's reputation is more important than the rule of law.
Didn;t you get the memo from the social services chief??
In which case at the end of September (ie with 7 months left to GE 2015) the previous 7 months trend would be.
4,4,3,4,3,3,4.
Interesting
Things aren't looking too rosy.
Ed Miliband's campaign in Scotland has been non-existent.It has been left to the old labour warriors to carry the fight to the nats.
Ed has been nowhere.
"What's important Is not letting anything get in the way of what's right"
I think so too, and blaming it on one race or culture leaves other causes in the shadows.
Investigate Rotherham and find out the why. But remember to look in all the grubby corners, they have a stench as well?
BluffingTipping point http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/referendum/article4202819.eceI have backed Labour biggest party to a massive extent and have a very small bet on Lab outright that reflects my confidence in the former but lack of confidence in the latter.
@SkyNews: THE HERALD FRONT PAGE: "Union turns the heat on Yes" #skypapers http://t.co/OWNsP23o95
The picture of Eck laughing his head off as major Scottish businesses announce they would leave is great
We might FINALLY get some balance on the threads...
Or is that stereotyping all taxi drivers and councillors?
Actually, I think that the fact that at least 1400 children in one town (we know Rotherham was not an isolated example) were raped and abused and the people that were paid to protect them didn't do so and haven't yet been brought to justice for their failures is rather more important than any petty political point-scoring.
If anyone thinks the reputation of the political party of the people in charge at the time is more important than seeing justice done, then they are to pitied. This is an issue of simple justice not of party politics.
It's quite simple. There are two by-elections coming up where a government in waiting would be looking to gain momentum with big wins or very serious incursions into the government's home turf.
Are Ed's tanks on Dave's lawn in Clacton? How will Labour do in Greater Manchester?
If the police in Rotherham would foreswear their oaths for bunch of local councilors, how much would they turn a blind eye for people with "real" power?
Look in every corner?
Thank you.
Not even interesting ones.
'The picture of Eck laughing his head off as major Scottish businesses announce they would leave is great'
Dickson was right about the tipping point this morning,just got the wrong side.
Exactly. I;ve never read one post on this site that even hinted at stereotyping Pakistanis as anything.
Rotherham is being posted on here because it is and will continue to be apposite to the political debate. It's inconceivable it won;t be an issue in at least one by-election coming up, and many election battles in 2015.
What do you think?
The idea that stereotyping, even unfair stereotyping, comes to mind as more important than that just shows how screwed up some people's ideologies are.
Media, buisness, all the other political parties, and commentators aimed at Eck and the nationalists. Like proud knights riding to the defence of the realm..
Avoid narrow river crossings, and don't pitch up on boggy ground. ;-)