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Punters say there’s just a 29% chance the Iranian regime will fall by the end of the month

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  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,105
    The Tories just need to sit tight and wait for Reform to implode .

    Farages Trumpification of the UK will hopefully do that .
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 16,011
    viewcode said:

    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 26% (-2)
    🔵 Conservatives: 18% (+2)
    🟢 Greens: 18% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 15% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (+2)

    Implied turnout: 55%
    Note: fieldwork conducted BEFORE by-election

    Changes from 18th February
    [Find Out Now, 25th February, N=2,442

    Lowestt Reform share in FoN regular polling since April 2025

    Has Labour ever been fifth in FON? Because they're an inch from it
    Not yet no.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,990

    nico67 said:

    The US and IDF need to be mindful that killing loads of Iranian civilians could backfire .

    The argument that Iran has been killing its own civilians isn’t a reason to treat Iran like Gaza .

    The IDF don't give a shit about democracy in Iran. They're just trying to degrade an adversary's military capacity while a useful idiot in the WH will allow them. I'm not sure what the US's objective is here apart from to distract from Epstein and let Trump play with some new toys.
    It's a facet of the right in general not really giving a shit about sexism, homophobia, antsemitism, racism, democracy etc except for cynical postioning purposes. About the only prejudice they genuinely care about is no one wanting to kiss them.
    I don't think that's true at all, but in particular I'd say at least on this board, the right are the ones who are keenest on democracy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,206

    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 26% (-2)
    🔵 Conservatives: 18% (+2)
    🟢 Greens: 18% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 15% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (+2)

    Implied turnout: 55%
    Note: fieldwork conducted BEFORE by-election

    Changes from 18th February
    [Find Out Now, 25th February, N=2,442

    Lowestt Reform share in FoN regular polling since April 2025

    Could just be Reform voters not buying so many lottery tickets last week.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,243
    viewcode said:

    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 26% (-2)
    🔵 Conservatives: 18% (+2)
    🟢 Greens: 18% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 15% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (+2)

    Implied turnout: 55%
    Note: fieldwork conducted BEFORE by-election

    Changes from 18th February
    [Find Out Now, 25th February, N=2,442

    Lowestt Reform share in FoN regular polling since April 2025

    Has Labour ever been fifth in FON? Because they're an inch from it
    Starmer's Redform project has run out of road.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,823

    viewcode said:

    Find Out Now voting intention
    🟦 Reform UK: 26% (-2)
    🔵 Conservatives: 18% (+2)
    🟢 Greens: 18% (-)
    🔴 Labour: 15% (-1)
    🟠 Lib Dems: 12% (+2)

    Implied turnout: 55%
    Note: fieldwork conducted BEFORE by-election

    Changes from 18th February
    [Find Out Now, 25th February, N=2,442

    Lowestt Reform share in FoN regular polling since April 2025

    Has Labour ever been fifth in FON? Because they're an inch from it
    Not yet no.
    Thank you
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,105
    The FON turnout figure alone suggests their polling is garbage .

    Turnout isn’t going to be that low and likely will be much higher as the anti -Reform vote comes out to stop them .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,347
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    That's way off historically, and massively naive. But i think you know that.

    Japan was transformed by occupation for 7 years by up to 400k allied soldiers and other personnel? For a population of 70 million (Iran: 90 million).

    What has Trump proposed?

    Oh .. 'we will not put boots on the ground'. Ooops.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,128
    edited 1:31PM
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    John Healey says that the "increasingly indiscriminate bombing" by Iran is a threat to British personnel and civilians in the region on Kuenssberg this morning. This to a background of missile attacks around Tehran and the murder of their deeply, deeply unpleasant religious leader.

    I am just bewildered that anyone can say this sort of nonsense with a straight face. We have had a completely unprovoked attack by the US and Israel on Iran. No one has even bothered to find a vestige of a legal justification for this attack. No UN resolutions, not even any attempt at negotiations and discussions. Just a US President who is desperate to change the news agenda in his country. The man is a war criminal as, of course, is Netanyahu .

    I find it shocking (if not surprising) that the US are not being called out for this criminal conduct. Instead we have SKS wittering about UK planes being "in the air" to protect allies from retaliation and this nonsense this morning. The hypocrisy is rank. We should be ashamed.

    We should be “ashamed” that our brave allies have decapitated probably the most hated, evil regime in the world??

    We should be ashamed we didn’t give them proper support
    You can't spend months insulting and bullying your former allies and then expect them to jump to the moment it suits you.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,841
    edited 1:36PM
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Of course they do you muppet. The Iranians are behind Hamas. The PA are much more popular with Arabs. If the Iranians go, then the PA probably gets to be top dog in the Palestinian Territories by default.

    They're probably quietly hoping the Israeli strikes destroy the regime, and the attacks by Iran on random Arabian countries allows them to say that without saying it.
    Oh come on. I’m enjoying the dramatic irony

    All the Pro Palestinian lefty twats are out protesting for Iran on the streets of the west and writing on PB in a similar way, and yet the actual Palestinians revile Iran and are not afraid to say so. It’s delicious

    There’s a deeper point here. If islamism can be overturned in Iran then Islamism everywhere will suffer an enormous, perhaps permanent reversal. Like communism falling in the 1980s

    No ideology is forever. Let’s pray this happens
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,841
    edited 1:35PM
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    That's way off historically, and massively naive. But i think you know that.

    Japan was transformed by occupation for 7 years by up to 400k allied soldiers and other personnel? For a population of 70 million (Iran: 90 million).

    What has Trump proposed?

    Oh .. 'we will not put boots on the ground'. Ooops.
    Someone asked for an example of a country bombed into defeat and then democracy. Japan is it
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,177
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Of course they do you muppet. The Iranians are behind Hamas. The PA are much more popular with Arabs. If the Iranians go, then the PA probably gets to be top dog in the Palestinian Territories by default.

    They're probably quietly hoping the Israeli strikes destroy the regime, and the attacks by Iran on random Arabian countries allows them to say that without saying it.
    Oh come on. I’m enjoying the dramatic irony

    All the Pro Palestinian lefty twats are out protesting for Iran on the streets of the west and writing on PB in a similar way, and yet the actual Palestinians revile Iran and are not afraid to say so. It’s delicious

    There a deeper point here. If islamism can be overturned in Iran then Islamism everywhere will suffer an enormous, perhaps permanent reversal. Like communism falling in the 1980s

    No ideology is forever. Let’s pray this happens
    You may be right but nature abhors a vacuum. Which ideology will replace it?

    Christian fundamentalism, ethno-nationalism, centrist dadism?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,823
    edited 1:39PM
    FindOutNow Lab/Con/Ref/Green results since Jan 1 2026

    Date Lab Con Ref Grn
    25-Feb 15% 18% 26% 18%
    18-Feb 16% 16% 28% 18%
    11-Feb 16% 19% 29% 18%
    04-Feb 16% 18% 31% 18%
    28-Jan 17% 17% 29% 19%
    21-Jan 14% 18% 32% 17%
    14-Jan 15% 19% 28% 18%
    7–8 Jan 15% 18% 32% 17%
    • Lab are still within their 14-17 band
    • Con are still within their 16-19 band
    • Ref are falling out of their 28-32 band
    • Grn are still within their 17-19 band


  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,804
    Cookie said:

    nico67 said:

    The US and IDF need to be mindful that killing loads of Iranian civilians could backfire .

    The argument that Iran has been killing its own civilians isn’t a reason to treat Iran like Gaza .

    The IDF don't give a shit about democracy in Iran. They're just trying to degrade an adversary's military capacity while a useful idiot in the WH will allow them. I'm not sure what the US's objective is here apart from to distract from Epstein and let Trump play with some new toys.
    It's a facet of the right in general not really giving a shit about sexism, homophobia, antsemitism, racism, democracy etc except for cynical postioning purposes. About the only prejudice they genuinely care about is no one wanting to kiss them.
    I don't think that's true at all, but in particular I'd say at least on this board, the right are the ones who are keenest on democracy.
    In Scotland we have special insight into the right's keenness on democracy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,129
    edited 1:39PM
    The UK government is hugely overstating how many people their new ‘AI Growth Zone’ will employ.

    They announced that it will create 800 full-time jobs. I submitted an FOI request for their calculations, and the real number is probably below 300. Their headline figure was even bigger - 3,400 jobs. Most of these, though, are temporary construction jobs while the data centres get built. Spinning <300 permanent jobs as “3,400 jobs” is wild.

    https://x.com/ednewtonrex/status/2028087539337159092?s=20

    Reminds me of Mandy and his 100,000s of new green jobs that included people working at petrol stations and those working in shoe shops.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,217
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    Sssssssh. You'll give Trump ideas...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,841
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Of course they do you muppet. The Iranians are behind Hamas. The PA are much more popular with Arabs. If the Iranians go, then the PA probably gets to be top dog in the Palestinian Territories by default.

    They're probably quietly hoping the Israeli strikes destroy the regime, and the attacks by Iran on random Arabian countries allows them to say that without saying it.
    Oh come on. I’m enjoying the dramatic irony

    All the Pro Palestinian lefty twats are out protesting for Iran on the streets of the west and writing on PB in a similar way, and yet the actual Palestinians revile Iran and are not afraid to say so. It’s delicious

    There a deeper point here. If islamism can be overturned in Iran then Islamism everywhere will suffer an enormous, perhaps permanent reversal. Like communism falling in the 1980s

    No ideology is forever. Let’s pray this happens
    You may be right but nature abhors a vacuum. Which ideology will replace it?

    Christian fundamentalism, ethno-nationalism, centrist dadism?
    A return to civilised Persian royalism would be just fine, thanks

    I hope they rename it Persia, as well. If the Persians do get their freedom it could be a magnificent country
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,804
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    That's way off historically, and massively naive. But i think you know that.

    Japan was transformed by occupation for 7 years by up to 400k allied soldiers and other personnel? For a population of 70 million (Iran: 90 million).

    What has Trump proposed?

    Oh .. 'we will not put boots on the ground'. Ooops.
    Someone asked for an example of a country bombed into defeat and then democracy. Japan is it
    Simon Schama made a similar zinger yesterday.
    Tbf to him he was turned into a twitter edgelord and maker of adolescent points only relatively recently.

    https://x.com/simon_schama/status/2027777131237842995?s=46&t=fJymV-V84rexmlQMLXHHJQ
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,129
    edited 1:45PM
    Hmmmm, I thought punching down wasn't cool in progressive comedy these days?

    Host Deon Cole opens the #NAACPImageAwards with a prayer.
    https://x.com/THR/status/2027925736758382807?s=20
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 981
    nico67 said:

    The Tories just need to sit tight and wait for Reform to implode .

    Farages Trumpification of the UK will hopefully do that .

    Tories are unelectable for at least another electoral cycle. Their ceiling is around 22%. That's lower than 2024. Their ceiling with Cleverly orvMordaunt (let's call her Tories Burnham as that's what she is) is probably high 20s

    Labour with a new Centre left leader a centrist Chancellor and Home Secretary and Centre left in other roles will be electable with a ceiling in high 20s.

    LD ceiling as now

    Reform reality probably 20%
    Green ceiling probably 18%

    Throw in Nats who won't touch Tory Reform with a barge pole and your probably looking at 45 tops right 55 bottoms left

    There will definitely be a loose centre left coalition in 2029 election
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,347

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    Sssssssh. You'll give Trump ideas...
    That would not surprise me.

    Trump is enough of a deranged psychopath to nuke a country before he admitted he was wrong.

    That is who the USA elected, and we all have to live with it.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,133
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Of course they do you muppet. The Iranians are behind Hamas. The PA are much more popular with Arabs. If the Iranians go, then the PA probably gets to be top dog in the Palestinian Territories by default.

    They're probably quietly hoping the Israeli strikes destroy the regime, and the attacks by Iran on random Arabian countries allows them to say that without saying it.
    Oh come on. I’m enjoying the dramatic irony

    All the Pro Palestinian lefty twats are out protesting for Iran on the streets of the west and writing on PB in a similar way, and yet the actual Palestinians revile Iran and are not afraid to say so. It’s delicious

    There a deeper point here. If islamism can be overturned in Iran then Islamism everywhere will suffer an enormous, perhaps permanent reversal. Like communism falling in the 1980s

    No ideology is forever. Let’s pray this happens
    You may be right but nature abhors a vacuum. Which ideology will replace it?

    Christian fundamentalism, ethno-nationalism, centrist dadism?
    A return to civilised Persian royalism would be just fine, thanks

    I hope they rename it Persia, as well. If the Persians do get their freedom it could be a magnificent country
    Why would they do that? It was the old Shah that requested foreigners to stop using the name Persia and use the name that they'd always called themselves: Iran.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,607
    Brixian59 said:

    nico67 said:

    The Tories just need to sit tight and wait for Reform to implode .

    Farages Trumpification of the UK will hopefully do that .

    Tories are unelectable for at least another electoral cycle. Their ceiling is around 22%. That's lower than 2024. Their ceiling with Cleverly orvMordaunt (let's call her Tories Burnham as that's what she is) is probably high 20s

    Labour with a new Centre left leader a centrist Chancellor and Home Secretary and Centre left in other roles will be electable with a ceiling in high 20s.

    LD ceiling as now

    Reform reality probably 20%
    Green ceiling probably 18%

    Throw in Nats who won't touch Tory Reform with a barge pole and your probably looking at 45 tops right 55 bottoms left

    There will definitely be a loose centre left coalition in 2029 election
    Labour are likely to lose many of their Scottish gains, and many of their current Welsh seats in 2029, even if they recover in England.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,841

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    That's way off historically, and massively naive. But i think you know that.

    Japan was transformed by occupation for 7 years by up to 400k allied soldiers and other personnel? For a population of 70 million (Iran: 90 million).

    What has Trump proposed?

    Oh .. 'we will not put boots on the ground'. Ooops.
    Someone asked for an example of a country bombed into defeat and then democracy. Japan is it
    Simon Schama made a similar zinger yesterday.
    Tbf to him he was turned into a twitter edgelord and maker of adolescent points only relatively recently.

    https://x.com/simon_schama/status/2027777131237842995?s=46&t=fJymV-V84rexmlQMLXHHJQ
    You might enjoy this, given your avatar

    https://x.com/wallstreetmav/status/2027890172042342460?s=46

    J D Vance on bass. lol
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,716
    edited 1:58PM
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    That* rather skirts over the whole military occupation thing. The democracy bit wouldn't have happened otherwise - indeed Japan might well have gone communist.
    So it literally didn't.

    There is simply no precedent for bombing a despotism into becoming a democracy.

    *And the seven month bombing campaign which preceded it, along with the years of open warfare.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,866
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    Sssssssh. You'll give Trump ideas...
    That would not surprise me.

    Trump is enough of a deranged psychopath to nuke a country before he admitted he was wrong.

    That is who the USA elected, and we all have to live with it.
    Except Khameini #epicbadtaste
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,880
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    That rather skirts over the whole military occupation thing. The democracy bit wouldn't have happened otherwise - indeed Japan might well have gone communist.
    So it literally didn't.

    There is simply no precedent for bombing a despotism into becoming a democracy.
    Japan's homeland was never invaded and they unconditionally surrendered purely from bombing, so it's not such a bad example.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,804
    Ooer, cat amongst artistic pigeons (a smallish flock I accept).

    WALDEMAR JANUSZCZAK
    @JANUSZCZAK
    The National Gallery of Scotland has announced it is paying tribute to the Scottish painter Jack Vettriano with a big display of his self portraits. What a collapse of judgement! Here's a ghastly 'smoker's' portrait they're showing. And something I wrote about Jack in 2004.

    https://x.com/JANUSZCZAK/status/2028099463668019523?s=20
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,116
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Of course they do you muppet. The Iranians are behind Hamas. The PA are much more popular with Arabs. If the Iranians go, then the PA probably gets to be top dog in the Palestinian Territories by default.

    They're probably quietly hoping the Israeli strikes destroy the regime, and the attacks by Iran on random Arabian countries allows them to say that without saying it.
    Oh come on. I’m enjoying the dramatic irony

    All the Pro Palestinian lefty twats are out protesting for Iran on the streets of the west and writing on PB in a similar way, and yet the actual Palestinians revile Iran and are not afraid to say so. It’s delicious

    There a deeper point here. If islamism can be overturned in Iran then Islamism everywhere will suffer an enormous, perhaps permanent reversal. Like communism falling in the 1980s

    No ideology is forever. Let’s pray this happens
    You may be right but nature abhors a vacuum. Which ideology will replace it?

    Christian fundamentalism, ethno-nationalism, centrist dadism?
    A return to civilised Persian royalism would be just fine, thanks

    I hope they rename it Persia, as well. If the Persians do get their freedom it could be a magnificent country
    Given the system of elections in Iran (controlled by the regime by only allowing regime adjacent candidates), it does not seem beyond belief that a post mullah political system would be elective.

    Note that one way the regime has tried to create a safety valve is allowing popular (but regime friendly) candidates, and not relying on obvious fraud in the counts.

    Several “reformist” candidates achieved wide appeal - though that mainly resulted in the mullahs restricting the liberty to elect such people.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,128

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Of course they do you muppet. The Iranians are behind Hamas. The PA are much more popular with Arabs. If the Iranians go, then the PA probably gets to be top dog in the Palestinian Territories by default.

    They're probably quietly hoping the Israeli strikes destroy the regime, and the attacks by Iran on random Arabian countries allows them to say that without saying it.
    Oh come on. I’m enjoying the dramatic irony

    All the Pro Palestinian lefty twats are out protesting for Iran on the streets of the west and writing on PB in a similar way, and yet the actual Palestinians revile Iran and are not afraid to say so. It’s delicious

    There a deeper point here. If islamism can be overturned in Iran then Islamism everywhere will suffer an enormous, perhaps permanent reversal. Like communism falling in the 1980s

    No ideology is forever. Let’s pray this happens
    You may be right but nature abhors a vacuum. Which ideology will replace it?

    Christian fundamentalism, ethno-nationalism, centrist dadism?
    A return to civilised Persian royalism would be just fine, thanks

    I hope they rename it Persia, as well. If the Persians do get their freedom it could be a magnificent country
    Why would they do that? It was the old Shah that requested foreigners to stop using the name Persia and use the name that they'd always called themselves: Iran.
    It was to curry favour with Hitler.

    Iran = Aryan.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,716
    edited 2:00PM

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    That rather skirts over the whole military occupation thing. The democracy bit wouldn't have happened otherwise - indeed Japan might well have gone communist.
    So it literally didn't.

    There is simply no precedent for bombing a despotism into becoming a democracy.
    Japan's homeland was never invaded and they unconditionally surrendered purely from bombing, so it's not such a bad example.
    You're expecting this to carry on until the simmer, then ?

    With a few hundred thousand civilian casualties ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,880
    https://x.com/AmitSegal/status/2028098684584415680

    It’s now official: former Iranian president and Israel-hater Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was eliminated last night in the opening strike.

    The amazing fact is that his whereabouts were known because he had been under house arrest since he tried to carry out a coup a few weeks ago.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,866

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Of course they do you muppet. The Iranians are behind Hamas. The PA are much more popular with Arabs. If the Iranians go, then the PA probably gets to be top dog in the Palestinian Territories by default.

    They're probably quietly hoping the Israeli strikes destroy the regime, and the attacks by Iran on random Arabian countries allows them to say that without saying it.
    Oh come on. I’m enjoying the dramatic irony

    All the Pro Palestinian lefty twats are out protesting for Iran on the streets of the west and writing on PB in a similar way, and yet the actual Palestinians revile Iran and are not afraid to say so. It’s delicious

    There a deeper point here. If islamism can be overturned in Iran then Islamism everywhere will suffer an enormous, perhaps permanent reversal. Like communism falling in the 1980s

    No ideology is forever. Let’s pray this happens
    You may be right but nature abhors a vacuum. Which ideology will replace it?

    Christian fundamentalism, ethno-nationalism, centrist dadism?
    A return to civilised Persian royalism would be just fine, thanks

    I hope they rename it Persia, as well. If the Persians do get their freedom it could be a magnificent country
    Why would they do that? It was the old Shah that requested foreigners to stop using the name Persia and use the name that they'd always called themselves: Iran.
    It was to curry favour with Hitler.

    Iran = Aryan.
    Well, we Shah'n't continue to curry favour with Nazis.

    Except Trump, of course.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,866
    Sean_F said:

    Brixian59 said:

    nico67 said:

    The Tories just need to sit tight and wait for Reform to implode .

    Farages Trumpification of the UK will hopefully do that .

    Tories are unelectable for at least another electoral cycle. Their ceiling is around 22%. That's lower than 2024. Their ceiling with Cleverly orvMordaunt (let's call her Tories Burnham as that's what she is) is probably high 20s

    Labour with a new Centre left leader a centrist Chancellor and Home Secretary and Centre left in other roles will be electable with a ceiling in high 20s.

    LD ceiling as now

    Reform reality probably 20%
    Green ceiling probably 18%

    Throw in Nats who won't touch Tory Reform with a barge pole and your probably looking at 45 tops right 55 bottoms left

    There will definitely be a loose centre left coalition in 2029 election
    I think there is a lot of wishcasting there.
    It's better than eugenics.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,841

    https://x.com/AmitSegal/status/2028098684584415680

    It’s now official: former Iranian president and Israel-hater Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was eliminated last night in the opening strike.

    The amazing fact is that his whereabouts were known because he had been under house arrest since he tried to carry out a coup a few weeks ago.

    Ah-me-dinner-jacket

    I will mourn him solely for his name
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,437

    MaxPB said:

    Zack Polanski yet to apologise for his deputy leader’s actions. Greens are not fit.

    Too many progressives/hard left have had their brains addled and now seem to support the Iranian regime because it's "not Trump" despite the tens of thousands of protesters they murdered just weeks ago - I mean you can see it here. Until that changed they are at no risk of splitting their voter alliance of Islamists and progressives. If anything I think their voters will very much agree with the actions of the Green leadership.
    Too often the adage 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' applies. Sometimes it works, for a while at any rate; Stalin's Soviet Union (after Hitler's attack anyway) is an example.
    Having watched Iranian politics, as much as any other dedicated follower of politics over the last seventy or so years, I would say that didn't apply to the mullahs; under them Iran wasn't anyone's friend except possibly other Shia dominated countries. They would trade with anyone, if necessary and weren't particularly scrupulous about with whom they traded. Putin's Russia doesn't strike me as particularly pro-Moslem for example. Rather their foreign policy was about identifying those they disliked (?hated) most and doing whatever they could to harm those they hated most.
    And they bore (?bear) grudges; we and the Americans did our level best to assist the late Shah, and we tried to cheat them out a considerable sum of money...... see Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe.
    The mullahs ran a peculiarly unpleasant regime, behind a facade of democracy, and I won't be sorry to see it go, always assuming that it'll be replaced by something more akin to democracy.
    “always assuming”, based on what, exactly?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,217
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    That rather skirts over the whole military occupation thing. The democracy bit wouldn't have happened otherwise - indeed Japan might well have gone communist.
    So it literally didn't.

    There is simply no precedent for bombing a despotism into becoming a democracy.
    Japan's homeland was never invaded and they unconditionally surrendered purely from bombing, so it's not such a bad example.
    You're expecting this to carry on until the simmer, then ?

    With a few hundred thousand civilian casualties ?
    Simmer is an unfortunate typo...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,128

    Cookie said:

    nico67 said:

    The US and IDF need to be mindful that killing loads of Iranian civilians could backfire .

    The argument that Iran has been killing its own civilians isn’t a reason to treat Iran like Gaza .

    The IDF don't give a shit about democracy in Iran. They're just trying to degrade an adversary's military capacity while a useful idiot in the WH will allow them. I'm not sure what the US's objective is here apart from to distract from Epstein and let Trump play with some new toys.
    It's a facet of the right in general not really giving a shit about sexism, homophobia, antsemitism, racism, democracy etc except for cynical postioning purposes. About the only prejudice they genuinely care about is no one wanting to kiss them.
    I don't think that's true at all, but in particular I'd say at least on this board, the right are the ones who are keenest on democracy.
    In Scotland we have special insight into the right's keenness on democracy.
    No 55%
    Yes 45%

    :innocent:
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,210
    Leon said:

    nico67 said:

    Most UK Muslims are Sunnis so I doubt they’ll be in tears over Khamenei being killed .

    There are scenes of celebration in… Damascus

    That I did not expect
    You didn't? The Sunni nexus - Al Qaeda, Saudi Arabia, etc. hates the Shia Iranian regime. The fact that the regime is hated by nasty people shouldn't blind us to the fact that it is itself wicked, but there is certainly a fair bit of hypocritical bollocks around in the condemnations of Iranian state-sponsored terror, when Saudi Arabia has a far worse track record.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,841
    Hah. You can get a biz class seat from Shanghai to LHR on Qatar for about £1000
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,823
    "Three ways Trump could strike Iran": CaspianReport Jan 29, 2026, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ7wE3XOwFU (17mins)

    "...Any kinetic attack that kills or removes a figure like the supreme leader or a senior military official would certainly create shock, but it would also play into the Shia Islam martyrdom culture and thereby galvanize unity. What's more, taking out the Supreme Leader, as much as a symbolic figure he is, wouldn't trigger the government's collapse. Iran's political machine is highly institutionalized, and the IRGC has a contingency plan to move into position and consolidate control over the clerical security elite. Once the IRGC takes power and de facto assumes guardianship of the state, they would then select a new supreme leader. So assassinating Iran's top leader would only create a short-term crisis while rallying hardliners around the flag and sparking a wider display of nationalism and unity..."

    see timestamp 8:18 at https://youtu.be/GZ7wE3XOwFU?si=9nKo4xEbyr8-J05A&t=498

    Let's see if this prediction from four weeks ago is correct
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,804

    Cookie said:

    nico67 said:

    The US and IDF need to be mindful that killing loads of Iranian civilians could backfire .

    The argument that Iran has been killing its own civilians isn’t a reason to treat Iran like Gaza .

    The IDF don't give a shit about democracy in Iran. They're just trying to degrade an adversary's military capacity while a useful idiot in the WH will allow them. I'm not sure what the US's objective is here apart from to distract from Epstein and let Trump play with some new toys.
    It's a facet of the right in general not really giving a shit about sexism, homophobia, antsemitism, racism, democracy etc except for cynical postioning purposes. About the only prejudice they genuinely care about is no one wanting to kiss them.
    I don't think that's true at all, but in particular I'd say at least on this board, the right are the ones who are keenest on democracy.
    In Scotland we have special insight into the right's keenness on democracy.
    No 55%
    Yes 45%

    :innocent:
    Remain 68%
    Leave 32%

    💩
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,534
    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,607
    Leon said:

    https://x.com/AmitSegal/status/2028098684584415680

    It’s now official: former Iranian president and Israel-hater Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was eliminated last night in the opening strike.

    The amazing fact is that his whereabouts were known because he had been under house arrest since he tried to carry out a coup a few weeks ago.

    Ah-me-dinner-jacket

    I will mourn him solely for his name
    Will you be wearing your mourning suit?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,129
    edited 2:11PM
    Leon said:

    Hah. You can get a biz class seat from Shanghai to LHR on Qatar for about £1000

    Even with all the missiles being lobbed, anything is better than BA....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,128


    WarMonitor🇺🇦🇬🇧
    @WarMonitor3
    ·
    25m
    Explosions are reported in Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Doha as Iran launches massive air attack on the Gulf states.

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/2028078493011980356


    FrontlinePulse 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @frontlinexpulse
    ·
    2h
    Iran is speedrunning “make every Gulf state hate you permanently.”
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,607
    Leon said:

    Hah. You can get a biz class seat from Shanghai to LHR on Qatar for about £1000

    You should book it. Leon - the Gazette’s on the spot war correspondent.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,210
    edited 2:13PM

    Ooer, cat amongst artistic pigeons (a smallish flock I accept).

    WALDEMAR JANUSZCZAK
    @JANUSZCZAK
    The National Gallery of Scotland has announced it is paying tribute to the Scottish painter Jack Vettriano with a big display of his self portraits. What a collapse of judgement! Here's a ghastly 'smoker's' portrait they're showing. And something I wrote about Jack in 2004.

    https://x.com/JANUSZCZAK/status/2028099463668019523?s=20

    It is a somewhat modern take that art must disturb and challenge to be regarded as art. Art used to be commissioned by wealthy patrons just to give pleasure. Vettriano's work does that. The disdain for beauty applied to architecture in the post-war era has left our cities scarred with monstrosities.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,228
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Of course they do you muppet. The Iranians are behind Hamas. The PA are much more popular with Arabs. If the Iranians go, then the PA probably gets to be top dog in the Palestinian Territories by default.

    They're probably quietly hoping the Israeli strikes destroy the regime, and the attacks by Iran on random Arabian countries allows them to say that without saying it.
    Oh come on. I’m enjoying the dramatic irony

    All the Pro Palestinian lefty twats are out protesting for Iran on the streets of the west and writing on PB in a similar way, and yet the actual Palestinians revile Iran and are not afraid to say so. It’s delicious

    There a deeper point here. If islamism can be overturned in Iran then Islamism everywhere will suffer an enormous, perhaps permanent reversal. Like communism falling in the 1980s

    No ideology is forever. Let’s pray this happens
    You may be right but nature abhors a vacuum. Which ideology will replace it?

    Christian fundamentalism, ethno-nationalism, centrist dadism?
    A return to civilised Persian royalism would be just fine, thanks

    I hope they rename it Persia, as well. If the Persians do get their freedom it could be a magnificent country
    They might need some writers to help kick-start their new tourist industry!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,607
    Taz said:

    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ

    Fix your energy price now, folks!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,437
    Eabhal said:

    What chance do we give the Bahrain Grand Prix going ahead? I reckon 60%.

    The same as the Iranian team has in actually being allowed to turn up and play in the World Cup
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,228
    Leon said:

    Hah. You can get a biz class seat from Shanghai to LHR on Qatar for about £1000

    When though? If it’s for the next 48 hours it’s very unlikely to happen.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,437
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Of course they do you muppet. The Iranians are behind Hamas. The PA are much more popular with Arabs. If the Iranians go, then the PA probably gets to be top dog in the Palestinian Territories by default.

    They're probably quietly hoping the Israeli strikes destroy the regime, and the attacks by Iran on random Arabian countries allows them to say that without saying it.
    Leon is a professional tourist, not a traveller; he’s not there to learn or understand anything about wherever he’s been sent for just a few days; his mission is merely to scribble down some superficial observations for those couples who can’t be bothered to have a shag to read in bed of a Sunday morning.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,210
    Taz said:

    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ

    I rather think destroying Iran's ability to close the straits should have been number one on the agenda.

    This is great news for oil producing countries - Putin's Russia included.

    And yet another reason to get fracking.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,116

    Ooer, cat amongst artistic pigeons (a smallish flock I accept).

    WALDEMAR JANUSZCZAK
    @JANUSZCZAK
    The National Gallery of Scotland has announced it is paying tribute to the Scottish painter Jack Vettriano with a big display of his self portraits. What a collapse of judgement! Here's a ghastly 'smoker's' portrait they're showing. And something I wrote about Jack in 2004.

    https://x.com/JANUSZCZAK/status/2028099463668019523?s=20

    It is a somewhat modern take that art must disturb and challenge to be regarded as art. Art used to be commissioned by wealthy patrons just to give pleasure. Vettriano's work does that. The disdain for beauty applied to architecture in the post-war era has left our cities scarred with monstrosities.
    I knew someone who was furiously attacked by her “teachers” at the Slade, for her love of producing representational paintings.

    Why? It’s not as if abstract art is cowering in a corner, unrepresented.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,210

    Ooer, cat amongst artistic pigeons (a smallish flock I accept).

    WALDEMAR JANUSZCZAK
    @JANUSZCZAK
    The National Gallery of Scotland has announced it is paying tribute to the Scottish painter Jack Vettriano with a big display of his self portraits. What a collapse of judgement! Here's a ghastly 'smoker's' portrait they're showing. And something I wrote about Jack in 2004.

    https://x.com/JANUSZCZAK/status/2028099463668019523?s=20

    It is a somewhat modern take that art must disturb and challenge to be regarded as art. Art used to be commissioned by wealthy patrons just to give pleasure. Vettriano's work does that. The disdain for beauty applied to architecture in the post-war era has left our cities scarred with monstrosities.
    I knew someone who was furiously attacked by her “teachers” at the Slade, for her love of producing representational paintings.

    Why? It’s not as if abstract art is cowering in a corner, unrepresented.
    Ghouls.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,206

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Iranians are not Arabs.
    The Khuzestanis are.
    Yeah there are loads of non Persian minorities in Iran including Arabs and Kurds, there is every chance that Iran could collapse into a failed state with IS and other bad actors gaining a foothold. The idea that Iran can be bombed into becoming a stable liberal democracy is utter idiocy.
    This literally worked in Japan. And it wasn’t just bombed, it was NUKED into liberal democracy
    That rather skirts over the whole military occupation thing. The democracy bit wouldn't have happened otherwise - indeed Japan might well have gone communist.
    So it literally didn't.

    There is simply no precedent for bombing a despotism into becoming a democracy.
    Japan's homeland was never invaded and they unconditionally surrendered purely from bombing, so it's not such a bad example.
    It is a bad example and it's also the best one - which tells the story.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,534

    Taz said:

    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ

    I rather think destroying Iran's ability to close the straits should have been number one on the agenda.

    This is great news for oil producing countries - Putin's Russia included.

    And yet another reason to get fracking.
    And exploit our oil in the north sea
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,228


    WarMonitor🇺🇦🇬🇧
    @WarMonitor3
    ·
    25m
    Explosions are reported in Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Doha as Iran launches massive air attack on the Gulf states.

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/2028078493011980356


    FrontlinePulse 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @frontlinexpulse
    ·
    2h
    Iran is speedrunning “make every Gulf state hate you permanently.”
    Yes indeed they are!

    UAE forces say that over 700 objects (c.550 drones and c.150 missiles) have been sent from Iran in the last 30 hours. All but a dozen were intercepted.

    Everyone in the region already hated Iran, but you can’t send 700 bombs to your neighbour and not expect a serious reaction.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,607
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Hah. You can get a biz class seat from Shanghai to LHR on Qatar for about £1000

    When though? If it’s for the next 48 hours it’s very unlikely to happen.
    I hope you’re not too badly affected by Iran attacking the sandpit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,116

    Ooer, cat amongst artistic pigeons (a smallish flock I accept).

    WALDEMAR JANUSZCZAK
    @JANUSZCZAK
    The National Gallery of Scotland has announced it is paying tribute to the Scottish painter Jack Vettriano with a big display of his self portraits. What a collapse of judgement! Here's a ghastly 'smoker's' portrait they're showing. And something I wrote about Jack in 2004.

    https://x.com/JANUSZCZAK/status/2028099463668019523?s=20

    It is a somewhat modern take that art must disturb and challenge to be regarded as art. Art used to be commissioned by wealthy patrons just to give pleasure. Vettriano's work does that. The disdain for beauty applied to architecture in the post-war era has left our cities scarred with monstrosities.
    I knew someone who was furiously attacked by her “teachers” at the Slade, for her love of producing representational paintings.

    Why? It’s not as if abstract art is cowering in a corner, unrepresented.
    Ghouls.
    Massive insecurity is my thought. The obsessed anger with anyone not conforming to their “rules”.

    Bit like the thought process of the Iranian Mullahs - everyone must conform to my revolution. Otherwise the revolution is at risk.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 422
    nico67 said:

    I don’t like the term Zionism .

    It muddies the waters . I loathe Netenyahu but don’t hate Israel which is at least a democracy .

    We might not like what it delivered but at least voters can change that .

    Indeed. And Israel has STV. A reminder that electoral systems don't produce bad governments - people do that in a democracy. It is what it is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,395
    edited 2:29PM
    'Donald Trump is dragging the United States into a war the American people do not want. Let me be clear: I am opposed to a regime-change war in Iran, and our troops are being put in harm’s way for the sake of Trump’s war of choice.

    Read my full statement:'
    https://x.com/KamalaHarris/status/2027820065886777456?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,206
    Leon said:

    Mamdani has already disgraced himself as NYC mayor. No words for the 40,000 dead Iranian protesters. Yet outrage at the Israeli/US action

    A US politician focusing their comments on actions by the US is hardly a disgrace.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,607
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ

    I rather think destroying Iran's ability to close the straits should have been number one on the agenda.

    This is great news for oil producing countries - Putin's Russia included.

    And yet another reason to get fracking.
    And exploit our oil in the north sea
    Aberdeen could do with the economic boost. Don’t let the Greens prevent it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,437
    edited 2:28PM
    scampi25 said:

    nico67 said:

    I don’t like the term Zionism .

    It muddies the waters . I loathe Netenyahu but don’t hate Israel which is at least a democracy .

    We might not like what it delivered but at least voters can change that .

    Indeed. And Israel has STV. A reminder that electoral systems don't produce bad governments - people do that in a democracy. It is what it is.
    Israel does not have STV. How ignorant can you get? Go sit in the naughty corner along with your best mate Leon.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,228

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Hah. You can get a biz class seat from Shanghai to LHR on Qatar for about £1000

    When though? If it’s for the next 48 hours it’s very unlikely to happen.
    I hope you’re not too badly affected by Iran attacking the sandpit.
    All good thanks, as least as far as most of us residents are concerned.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5470792/#Comment_5470792

    Some of the tourist areas appear to be seeing more ‘action’ than me, but most of the reaction to it, is that to them it was unexpected. To those who live here it’s been something we’ve thought about for years, and especially in the last few weeks and months.

    Oh, and I’ve been on holiday in Ukraine a couple of times since the war started, so I don’t get scared by emergency alerts.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,607

    Ooer, cat amongst artistic pigeons (a smallish flock I accept).

    WALDEMAR JANUSZCZAK
    @JANUSZCZAK
    The National Gallery of Scotland has announced it is paying tribute to the Scottish painter Jack Vettriano with a big display of his self portraits. What a collapse of judgement! Here's a ghastly 'smoker's' portrait they're showing. And something I wrote about Jack in 2004.

    https://x.com/JANUSZCZAK/status/2028099463668019523?s=20

    It is a somewhat modern take that art must disturb and challenge to be regarded as art. Art used to be commissioned by wealthy patrons just to give pleasure. Vettriano's work does that. The disdain for beauty applied to architecture in the post-war era has left our cities scarred with monstrosities.
    I knew someone who was furiously attacked by her “teachers” at the Slade, for her love of producing representational paintings.

    Why? It’s not as if abstract art is cowering in a corner, unrepresented.
    Ghouls.
    Massive insecurity is my thought. The obsessed anger with anyone not conforming to their “rules”.

    Bit like the thought process of the Iranian Mullahs - everyone must conform to my revolution. Otherwise the revolution is at risk.
    The sort of people that read 1984 and think “what a good idea”.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 422
    HYUFD said:

    'Donald Trump is dragging the United States into a war the American people do not want. Let me be clear: I am opposed to a regime-change war in Iran, and our troops are being put in harm’s way for the sake of Trump’s war of choice.

    Read my full statement:'
    https://x.com/KamalaHarris/status/2027820065886777456?s=20

    She was somebody once...
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,553
    edited 2:38PM
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ

    I rather think destroying Iran's ability to close the straits should have been number one on the agenda.

    This is great news for oil producing countries - Putin's Russia included.

    And yet another reason to get fracking.
    And exploit our oil in the north sea
    This is insane. The damage an oil shock will do to the UK economy is many multiples the potential gains to our domestic oil industry. That's the the case in the US, where oil production is about 30x times higher than it is here. We are not Russia or Saudi Arabia, even if we maxxed out development and production.

    Thankfully, our domestic renewables are on fixed price contracts and are invulnerable to Iranian drone strikes . It's mad that we could live through a gas shock (Ukraine) and an oIl shock (Iran) and you'll still be banging on about fossil fuels.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 422
    IanB2 said:

    scampi25 said:

    nico67 said:

    I don’t like the term Zionism .

    It muddies the waters . I loathe Netenyahu but don’t hate Israel which is at least a democracy .

    We might not like what it delivered but at least voters can change that .

    Indeed. And Israel has STV. A reminder that electoral systems don't produce bad governments - people do that in a democracy. It is what it is.
    Israel does not have STV. How ignorant can you get? Go sit in the naughty corner along with your best mate Leon.
    What a freak you are!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,880
    Unexpected political views:

    https://x.com/BoyGeorge/status/2027657390582055193

    Wow. It's happening. #FreeIran I cannot sleep. This is history. Massive. God bless everyone in Iran and the US military. Of course I hate war but this is liberation.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,678
    edited 2:39PM
    HYUFD said:

    'Donald Trump is dragging the United States into a war the American people do not want. Let me be clear: I am opposed to a regime-change war in Iran, and our troops are being put in harm’s way for the sake of Trump’s war of choice.

    Read my full statement:'
    https://x.com/KamalaHarris/status/2027820065886777456?s=20

    Being as it's Trump I am sure he will sell an Iraq-style fiasco as a win. Early days, and he might be lucky. With Qatar and the UAE on fire, the early signs are not great

    Remarkably some people will buy it too.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,534
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ

    I rather think destroying Iran's ability to close the straits should have been number one on the agenda.

    This is great news for oil producing countries - Putin's Russia included.

    And yet another reason to get fracking.
    And exploit our oil in the north sea
    This is insane. The damage an oil shock will do to the UK economy is many multiples the potential gains to our domestic oil industry. That's the the case in the US, where oil production is about 30x times higher than it is here. We are not Russia or Saudi Arabia, even if we maxxed out development and production.

    Thankfully, our domestic renewables are on fixed price contracts and are invulnerable to Iranian drone strikes . It's mad that we could live through a gas shock (Ukraine) and an oIl shock (Iran) and you'll still be banging on about fossil fuels.
    It’s not ‘insane’ you just disagree.

    More supply would help when there’s a constraint somewhere
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,607

    HYUFD said:

    'Donald Trump is dragging the United States into a war the American people do not want. Let me be clear: I am opposed to a regime-change war in Iran, and our troops are being put in harm’s way for the sake of Trump’s war of choice.

    Read my full statement:'
    https://x.com/KamalaHarris/status/2027820065886777456?s=20

    Being as it's Trump I am sure he will sell an Iraq-style fiasco as a win. Early days, and he might be lucky, with Qatar and the UAE on fire, the early signs are not great

    Remarkably some people will buy it too.
    A possible outcome is that Middle Eastern countries decide they no longer want US bases on their territory, which would make Cyprus and Chagos more strategically valuable. Of course, useless Starmer will give away any advantage we may have.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 981
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ

    I rather think destroying Iran's ability to close the straits should have been number one on the agenda.

    This is great news for oil producing countries - Putin's Russia included.

    And yet another reason to get fracking.
    And exploit our oil in the north sea
    This is insane. The damage an oil shock will do to the UK economy is many multiples the potential gains to our domestic oil industry. That's the the case in the US, where oil production is about 30x times higher than it is here. We are not Russia or Saudi Arabia, even if we maxxed out development and production.

    Thankfully, our domestic renewables are on fixed price contracts and are invulnerable to Iranian drone strikes . It's mad that we could live through a gas shock (Ukraine) and an oIl shock (Iran) and you'll still be banging on about fossil fuels.
    It’s not ‘insane’ you just disagree.

    More supply would help when there’s a constraint somewhere
    Crank up the solar
    Crank up the wind turbines
    Crank up the tidal buoys
    Build another 5 electric hydro mountain like Llanberis

    Renewable
    Renewable
    Renewable

    Ed knows!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,949

    HYUFD said:

    'Donald Trump is dragging the United States into a war the American people do not want. Let me be clear: I am opposed to a regime-change war in Iran, and our troops are being put in harm’s way for the sake of Trump’s war of choice.

    Read my full statement:'
    https://x.com/KamalaHarris/status/2027820065886777456?s=20

    Being as it's Trump I am sure he will sell an Iraq-style fiasco as a win. Early days, and he might be lucky. With Qatar and the UAE on fire, the early signs are not great

    Remarkably some people will buy it too.
    Are you hoping some people will buy what you just wrote ?

    Qatar and UAE on fire ???

    A truly bizarre comment.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,228
    Okay, so tomorrow and Tuesday have now been called as public holidays in UAE.

    Anyone who doesn’t have to be at work is told to work remotely. At my business the critical operation will work with minimum possible staff on site.

    This could last a while folks.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,177
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Superb plot twist


    BREAKING: Palestinian Authority condemns Iranian attacks on Arab countries

    Of course they do you muppet. The Iranians are behind Hamas. The PA are much more popular with Arabs. If the Iranians go, then the PA probably gets to be top dog in the Palestinian Territories by default.

    They're probably quietly hoping the Israeli strikes destroy the regime, and the attacks by Iran on random Arabian countries allows them to say that without saying it.
    Oh come on. I’m enjoying the dramatic irony

    All the Pro Palestinian lefty twats are out protesting for Iran on the streets of the west and writing on PB in a similar way, and yet the actual Palestinians revile Iran and are not afraid to say so. It’s delicious

    There a deeper point here. If islamism can be overturned in Iran then Islamism everywhere will suffer an enormous, perhaps permanent reversal. Like communism falling in the 1980s

    No ideology is forever. Let’s pray this happens
    You may be right but nature abhors a vacuum. Which ideology will replace it?

    Christian fundamentalism, ethno-nationalism, centrist dadism?
    A return to civilised Persian royalism would be just fine, thanks

    I hope they rename it Persia, as well. If the Persians do get their freedom it could be a magnificent country
    Bring back the Parthian Empire or even the Arsacid Empire. Imagine a country called Arseacid - I mean, who wouldn’t want to visit?
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 981
    Sean_F said:

    Brixian59 said:

    nico67 said:

    The Tories just need to sit tight and wait for Reform to implode .

    Farages Trumpification of the UK will hopefully do that .

    Tories are unelectable for at least another electoral cycle. Their ceiling is around 22%. That's lower than 2024. Their ceiling with Cleverly orvMordaunt (let's call her Tories Burnham as that's what she is) is probably high 20s

    Labour with a new Centre left leader a centrist Chancellor and Home Secretary and Centre left in other roles will be electable with a ceiling in high 20s.

    LD ceiling as now

    Reform reality probably 20%
    Green ceiling probably 18%

    Throw in Nats who won't touch Tory Reform with a barge pole and your probably looking at 45 tops right 55 bottoms left

    There will definitely be a loose centre left coalition in 2029 election
    I think there is a lot of wishcasting there.
    It's the left version of up ramping
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,607
    Brixian59 said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ

    I rather think destroying Iran's ability to close the straits should have been number one on the agenda.

    This is great news for oil producing countries - Putin's Russia included.

    And yet another reason to get fracking.
    And exploit our oil in the north sea
    This is insane. The damage an oil shock will do to the UK economy is many multiples the potential gains to our domestic oil industry. That's the the case in the US, where oil production is about 30x times higher than it is here. We are not Russia or Saudi Arabia, even if we maxxed out development and production.

    Thankfully, our domestic renewables are on fixed price contracts and are invulnerable to Iranian drone strikes . It's mad that we could live through a gas shock (Ukraine) and an oIl shock (Iran) and you'll still be banging on about fossil fuels.
    It’s not ‘insane’ you just disagree.

    More supply would help when there’s a constraint somewhere
    Crank up the solar
    Crank up the wind turbines
    Crank up the tidal buoys
    Build another 5 electric hydro mountain like Llanberis

    Renewable
    Renewable
    Renewable

    Ed knows!
    If oil and gas prices spike we should maximise both renewable and fossil fuel production temporarily. Why not try and get a commercial advantage while we can?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,866
    Brixian59 said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ

    I rather think destroying Iran's ability to close the straits should have been number one on the agenda.

    This is great news for oil producing countries - Putin's Russia included.

    And yet another reason to get fracking.
    And exploit our oil in the north sea
    This is insane. The damage an oil shock will do to the UK economy is many multiples the potential gains to our domestic oil industry. That's the the case in the US, where oil production is about 30x times higher than it is here. We are not Russia or Saudi Arabia, even if we maxxed out development and production.

    Thankfully, our domestic renewables are on fixed price contracts and are invulnerable to Iranian drone strikes . It's mad that we could live through a gas shock (Ukraine) and an oIl shock (Iran) and you'll still be banging on about fossil fuels.
    It’s not ‘insane’ you just disagree.

    More supply would help when there’s a constraint somewhere
    Crank up the solar
    Crank up the wind turbines
    Crank up the tidal buoys
    Build another 5 electric hydro mountain like Llanberis

    Renewable
    Renewable
    Renewable

    Ed knows!
    Dinorwig (I assume you mean that) is pumped storage, not hydroelectric per se.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,574
    My holiday is now over.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,949
    The contrast between Jimmy Carter's military fiasco in Iran and Trump's success will make useful propaganda for the GOP.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,700

    nico67 said:

    Iran is fast running out of friends and military hardware .

    They’ll have to make a deal at some point .

    Who will have to make a deal? That's the question. If you kill all Iran's leaders as soon as they pop up (cf Gaza) who can make a deal?
    Whoever is left to surrender.

    As happened in Gaza.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,553
    edited 2:49PM
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ

    I rather think destroying Iran's ability to close the straits should have been number one on the agenda.

    This is great news for oil producing countries - Putin's Russia included.

    And yet another reason to get fracking.
    And exploit our oil in the north sea
    This is insane. The damage an oil shock will do to the UK economy is many multiples the potential gains to our domestic oil industry. That's the the case in the US, where oil production is about 30x times higher than it is here. We are not Russia or Saudi Arabia, even if we maxxed out development and production.

    Thankfully, our domestic renewables are on fixed price contracts and are invulnerable to Iranian drone strikes . It's mad that we could live through a gas shock (Ukraine) and an oIl shock (Iran) and you'll still be banging on about fossil fuels.
    It’s not ‘insane’ you just disagree.

    More supply would help when there’s a constraint somewhere
    To what extent? We produce about 0.7% of the world's oil. If we exploited every possible reserve, included future discoveries, we could increase our production by perhaps 10-15% in the next 10 years, relative to a steeply declining baseline. This would have infinitesimally small impact on world oil prices.

    I disagree with the restriction of new developments but I disagree even more with the bampot idea that reversing that decision would have any material impact on our energy costs. It would be a good thing for the NE of Scotland but nothing more. The only solution we have is reducing our exposure as quickly as possible.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,804

    Ooer, cat amongst artistic pigeons (a smallish flock I accept).

    WALDEMAR JANUSZCZAK
    @JANUSZCZAK
    The National Gallery of Scotland has announced it is paying tribute to the Scottish painter Jack Vettriano with a big display of his self portraits. What a collapse of judgement! Here's a ghastly 'smoker's' portrait they're showing. And something I wrote about Jack in 2004.

    https://x.com/JANUSZCZAK/status/2028099463668019523?s=20

    It is a somewhat modern take that art must disturb and challenge to be regarded as art. Art used to be commissioned by wealthy patrons just to give pleasure. Vettriano's work does that. The disdain for beauty applied to architecture in the post-war era has left our cities scarred with monstrosities.
    My own taste and such art that I make nowadays tends towards the figurative, the trouble is Vettriano’s work wasn’t very good even in those terms. If AI was given a little robotic hand and a palette..
    It was sad that JV had massive commercial success but it went with a huge chip on his shoulder about lack of respect as a serious artist, bit like if Dan Brown moaned about not being up for the Booker. Take what positives fate and one’s talents provide I say and stop moaning.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,678
    edited 2:50PM

    HYUFD said:

    'Donald Trump is dragging the United States into a war the American people do not want. Let me be clear: I am opposed to a regime-change war in Iran, and our troops are being put in harm’s way for the sake of Trump’s war of choice.

    Read my full statement:'
    https://x.com/KamalaHarris/status/2027820065886777456?s=20

    Being as it's Trump I am sure he will sell an Iraq-style fiasco as a win. Early days, and he might be lucky. With Qatar and the UAE on fire, the early signs are not great

    Remarkably some people will buy it too.
    Are you hoping some people will buy what you just wrote ?

    Qatar and UAE on fire ???

    A truly bizarre comment.
    Do you not follow the news?

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVVpcl_CQHe/?igsh=MXNwaHN5cjRmanh6eA==

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c204px4zddro

    https://youtu.be/Nc48DKYep_0?si=X01MuCs1qRUqSLN2
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,607

    My holiday is now over.

    Ahhhhhhh…. and the world can relax.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,766
    viewcode said:

    FindOutNow Lab/Con/Ref/Green results since Jan 1 2026

    Date Lab Con Ref Grn
    25-Feb 15% 18% 26% 18%
    18-Feb 16% 16% 28% 18%
    11-Feb 16% 19% 29% 18%
    04-Feb 16% 18% 31% 18%
    28-Jan 17% 17% 29% 19%
    21-Jan 14% 18% 32% 17%
    14-Jan 15% 19% 28% 18%
    7–8 Jan 15% 18% 32% 17%


    • Lab are still within their 14-17 band
    • Con are still within their 16-19 band
    • Ref are falling out of their 28-32 band
    • Grn are still within their 17-19 band


    The sum of those parties scores has come down from 82 to 77. Rupert Lowe's Restore I should think
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,521

    Ooer, cat amongst artistic pigeons (a smallish flock I accept).

    WALDEMAR JANUSZCZAK
    @JANUSZCZAK
    The National Gallery of Scotland has announced it is paying tribute to the Scottish painter Jack Vettriano with a big display of his self portraits. What a collapse of judgement! Here's a ghastly 'smoker's' portrait they're showing. And something I wrote about Jack in 2004.

    https://x.com/JANUSZCZAK/status/2028099463668019523?s=20

    It is a somewhat modern take that art must disturb and challenge to be regarded as art. Art used to be commissioned by wealthy patrons just to give pleasure. Vettriano's work does that. The disdain for beauty applied to architecture in the post-war era has left our cities scarred with monstrosities.
    I suppose so, if you see Caravaggio as a 'modern'.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,620

    Ooer, cat amongst artistic pigeons (a smallish flock I accept).

    WALDEMAR JANUSZCZAK
    @JANUSZCZAK
    The National Gallery of Scotland has announced it is paying tribute to the Scottish painter Jack Vettriano with a big display of his self portraits. What a collapse of judgement! Here's a ghastly 'smoker's' portrait they're showing. And something I wrote about Jack in 2004.

    https://x.com/JANUSZCZAK/status/2028099463668019523?s=20

    It is a somewhat modern take that art must disturb and challenge to be regarded as art. Art used to be commissioned by wealthy patrons just to give pleasure. Vettriano's work does that. The disdain for beauty applied to architecture in the post-war era has left our cities scarred with monstrosities.
    There is a view that a work only counts as art, music, or literature, so long as viewing, listening to, or reading it is a punitive experience.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,607
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Another oil tanker on fire. Maersk suspend all shipping through strait of Hormuz.

    Well done Trump. A price worth paying. Gas prices through the roof for the midterms

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/2028108550820499774?s=46&t=d8CnRhyZJ-m4vy0k55W8XQ

    I rather think destroying Iran's ability to close the straits should have been number one on the agenda.

    This is great news for oil producing countries - Putin's Russia included.

    And yet another reason to get fracking.
    And exploit our oil in the north sea
    This is insane. The damage an oil shock will do to the UK economy is many multiples the potential gains to our domestic oil industry. That's the the case in the US, where oil production is about 30x times higher than it is here. We are not Russia or Saudi Arabia, even if we maxxed out development and production.

    Thankfully, our domestic renewables are on fixed price contracts and are invulnerable to Iranian drone strikes . It's mad that we could live through a gas shock (Ukraine) and an oIl shock (Iran) and you'll still be banging on about fossil fuels.
    It’s not ‘insane’ you just disagree.

    More supply would help when there’s a constraint somewhere
    To what extent? We produce about 0.7% of the world's oil. If we exploited every possible reserve, included future discoveries, we could increase our production by perhaps 10-15% in the next 10 years, relative to a steeply declining baseline. This would have infinitesimally small impact on world oil prices.

    I disagree with the restriction of new developments but I disagree even more with the bampot idea that reversing that decision would have any material impact on our energy costs.
    We should be maximising production from our existing wells, not leaving the oil in the ground.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,742
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    International law is less relevant now in the era of Trump .

    It’s really more about norms that countries used to prescribe to in case it came back to bite them later . Things you shouldn’t do in case someone else did them to you in the future .

    We’re living now in an era where might is all that matters .

    The UN Security Council is now a complete joke , indeed one wonders what the point is of the UN itself .

    We get constant vetoes in the former and the latter is a talking shop where resolutions are simply ignored .

    International law has never mattered.

    The UN Security Council has always been a joke.

    There has never been much point to the UN itself.

    The only thing that has changed is the scales are falling from your eyes and you are realising that truth.

    Vetoes in the former and the latter being a talking shop has been the case for the past ~80 years.

    International law should never have developed beyond fundamentals of rules of engagement, banning chemical weapons and treating PoWs etc.

    Might is not right, but might is might. If you want right, you need the might to enforce it. Or someone else will enforce what they want.
    The problem is might is often used for less laudable endeavours. This morning a good point was raised that countries tend to care about international law when it suits them and they ignore it when it doesn’t .
    I had this argument years ago with my uncle. He believed that the UK should stick to international law otherwise China would feel free to break it in future. I took the view that China didn’t give a fig about the UK and would break it if it was in its interests at the time…
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,880
    https://x.com/sentdefender/status/2028106880027894250

    Thick black smoke seen rising from the site of Iranian drone and/or missile strike on Camp de la Paix, a French naval base in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,700
    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    John Healey says that the "increasingly indiscriminate bombing" by Iran is a threat to British personnel and civilians in the region on Kuenssberg this morning. This to a background of missile attacks around Tehran and the murder of their deeply, deeply unpleasant religious leader.

    I am just bewildered that anyone can say this sort of nonsense with a straight face. We have had a completely unprovoked attack by the US and Israel on Iran. No one has even bothered to find a vestige of a legal justification for this attack. No UN resolutions, not even any attempt at negotiations and discussions. Just a US President who is desperate to change the news agenda in his country. The man is a war criminal as, of course, is Netanyahu .

    I find it shocking (if not surprising) that the US are not being called out for this criminal conduct. Instead we have SKS wittering about UK planes being "in the air" to protect allies from retaliation and this nonsense this morning. The hypocrisy is rank. We should be ashamed.

    We should be “ashamed” that our brave allies have decapitated probably the most hated, evil regime in the world??

    We should be ashamed we didn’t give them proper support
    You can't spend months insulting and bullying your former allies and then expect them to jump to the moment it suits you.
    And yet Carney was principled enough to set aside his (far more serious and entirely justified) differences with Trump, and came out clearly and unambiguously in favour of the attacks.

    And yet we have people here like @DavidL using Carney's name to argue that the attacks were "unprovoked" and "illegal" when Carney himself has said quite clearly and eloquently how Iran provoked the situation and why Canada fully supports the attacks.

    Funny that.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,700

    My holiday is now over.

    Boo, the past week has been fun.

    Should we crowd-fund another holiday for you?
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