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Punters say there’s just a 29% chance the Iranian regime will fall by the end of the month

SystemSystem Posts: 12,976
edited 8:56AM in General
Punters say there’s just a 29% chance the Iranian regime will fall by the end of the month– politicalbetting.com

This might be the most eventful holiday in the history of PB editors. Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor & Lord Mandelson both arrested, the Greens win their first ever by-election, and the Supreme Leader of Iran being assassinated by the Americans & Israelis.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 25,525
    edited 9:01AM


    Ayatollah Khamanei closer !!

    First, of course.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,314
    BBC breakfast showing disturbing images this morning.

    Just tuned in and the first thing I saw was Rachel Burdens pants
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,115

    BBC breakfast showing disturbing images this morning.

    Just tuned in and the first thing I saw was Rachel Burdens pants

    Could be worse, could be Lord Mandy's...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,395
    edited 9:09AM
    The Ayatollah is dead then, even Iranian state TV has confirmed it now with news anchor tears and 40 days of national mourning,

    However Iran isn't showing much sign of capitulating yet. 'God is great. God is great. With deep sorrow, it is announced to the nation of Iran that Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution, was martyred today in a joint criminal attack by the United States and the Zionist regime,' the anchor said in a clip posted on X.

    The Council described Khamenei as a revered religious Islamic figure, and said his 'long dream of martyrdom became true.' It was noted that Khamenei was killed during the month of Ramadan.

    According to the statement, Iranians were said to be mourning the leader's death but enemies of the country should note that 'martyrdom will spark a massive uprising in the fight against oppressors,' the outlet reported.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15602967/Iran-Ayatollah-Ali-Khamenei-family-killed-airstrikes-trump.html

    Iran has also just appointed a new commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the President of Iran, Masoud Pezeshkian,it seems is still alive while the process of a new Ayatollah appointment begins (which in Iran has rather more significance than our recent appointment of a new Archbishop of Canterbury, not least as women cannot apply). In that sense we are looking at the Shia equivalent of the Papal conclave, a leadership council is now running Iran in the meantime including the President and head of the judiciary

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15602967/Iran-Ayatollah-Ali-Khamenei-family-killed-airstrikes-trump.html
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/national/25896933.council-assumes-leadership-duties-succession-process-begins-iran/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536
    He was't a great leader of the revolution, apparently it was still ongoing 30+ years later.

    (Yes i know for these types its perpetual)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,716

    BBC breakfast showing disturbing images this morning.

    Just tuned in and the first thing I saw was Rachel Burdens pants

    Could be worse, could be Lord Mandy's...
    Or Farage's.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,863
    Will anyone miss Khameini?

    Answer - about as much as the Americans.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,716
    HYUFD said:

    The Ayatollah is dead then, even Iranian state TV has confirmed it now with news anchor tears and 40 days of national mourning,

    However Iran isn't showing much sign of capitulating yet. 'God is great. God is great. With deep sorrow, it is announced to the nation of Iran that Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution, was martyred today in a joint criminal attack by the United States and the Zionist regime,' the anchor said in a clip posted on X.

    The Council described Khamenei as a revered religious Islamic figure, and said his 'long dream of martyrdom became true.' It was noted that Khamenei was killed during the month of Ramadan.

    According to the statement, Iranians were said to be mourning the leader's death but enemies of the country should note that 'martyrdom will spark a massive uprising in the fight against oppressors,' the outlet reported.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15602967/Iran-Ayatollah-Ali-Khamenei-family-killed-airstrikes-trump.html

    Iran has also just appointed a new commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the President of Iran, Masoud Pezeshkian,it seems is still alive while the process of a new Ayatollah appointment begins (which in Iran has rather more significance than our recent appointment of a new Archbishop of Canterbury, not least as women cannot apply). In that sense we are looking at the Shia equivalent of the Papal conclave, a leadership council is now running Iran in the meantime including the President and head of the judiciary

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15602967/Iran-Ayatollah-Ali-Khamenei-family-killed-airstrikes-trump.html
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/national/25896933.council-assumes-leadership-duties-succession-process-begins-iran/

    Half of Iran will most certainly not be mourning.

    But they're not the half with the guns.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,525
    Wes speaks

    Wes Streeting responds to Labour's by-election defeat in a speech at Labour north conference:

    "We’ve got to respect the voters by understanding why we lost. We lost because the party that represented hope in the eyes of too many voters wasn’t us.

    "I’m sure some of you will have heard the speech made by Hannah Spencer, the winning candidate, on election night. That was a Labour speech."

    "We mustn’t fall into the trap of sounding like our attack on the Greens is an attack on hope, or give the impression that there aren’t things that unite us as progressives, or – worst still – allow them to steal our clothes."

    "That doesn’t mean we can’t take on the Greens and their positions, we should and we will.

    "Because when it comes to the solutions needed to solve our country’s problems, we part ways with the Greens. And when it comes to being able to unite the centre and the left against Reform they don’t stand a chance."

    https://x.com/pronouncedalva/status/2027845672553087055?s=61
  • TresTres Posts: 3,513
    a lot of people are telling me that Fararge got an article on the telegraph looking to meddle with the electorate, making it harder for those with busy/chaotic lives to vote.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,217
    HYUFD said:



    ...the process of a new Ayatollah appointment begins (which in Iran has rather more significance than our recent appointment of a new Archbishop of Canterbury, not least as women cannot apply). In that sense we are looking at the Shia equivalent of the Papal conclave...

    Although accopanied by a LOT more black smoke.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 973
    Taz said:



    Ayatollah Khamanei closer !!

    First, of course.

    Taz said:



    Ayatollah Khamanei closer !!

    First, of course.

    You must be perfecting a Stansfield type press on the keeper, to continually be first to post.

    Most impressive.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,408
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Ayatollah is dead then, even Iranian state TV has confirmed it now with news anchor tears and 40 days of national mourning,

    However Iran isn't showing much sign of capitulating yet. 'God is great. God is great. With deep sorrow, it is announced to the nation of Iran that Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution, was martyred today in a joint criminal attack by the United States and the Zionist regime,' the anchor said in a clip posted on X.

    The Council described Khamenei as a revered religious Islamic figure, and said his 'long dream of martyrdom became true.' It was noted that Khamenei was killed during the month of Ramadan.

    According to the statement, Iranians were said to be mourning the leader's death but enemies of the country should note that 'martyrdom will spark a massive uprising in the fight against oppressors,' the outlet reported.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15602967/Iran-Ayatollah-Ali-Khamenei-family-killed-airstrikes-trump.html

    Iran has also just appointed a new commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the President of Iran, Masoud Pezeshkian,it seems is still alive while the process of a new Ayatollah appointment begins (which in Iran has rather more significance than our recent appointment of a new Archbishop of Canterbury, not least as women cannot apply). In that sense we are looking at the Shia equivalent of the Papal conclave, a leadership council is now running Iran in the meantime including the President and head of the judiciary

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15602967/Iran-Ayatollah-Ali-Khamenei-family-killed-airstrikes-trump.html
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/national/25896933.council-assumes-leadership-duties-succession-process-begins-iran/

    Half of Iran will most certainly not be mourning.

    But they're not the half with the guns.
    It will probably be more subtle than that.

    One of my close friends and colleagues is an Iraqi who I have known since 1992, shortly after she arrived escaping the first Gulf War. She hated Saddam and in quieter moments has told me of how his secret police "disappeared" medical students from her year.

    However she loathes the Islamists who now control Baghdad to the point that her nieces cannot leave the house except in full Niqab, far worse than her fairly secular upbringing, not a lot different to mine in Eighties Britain

    And also she hates the US (and Israelis - there being more than a whiff of anti-semitism to her "news" sources on Social Media and Arabic TV) for the destruction of her countryand what she sees as colonial looting of resources.

    The enemy of my enemy is not always a friend and people rarely like those bombing their fellow citizens, not least because there is always collateral damage.
  • An interesting question was posed last night.

    Tactical voting at least in 2024 was very strong between Lib Dems and Labour. Not sure if it was as strong between Greens and Labour but I assume so.

    What do these voters think now? Are they less likely to vote tactically now due to a hatred of Labour?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,716
    This seems a plausible analysis.

    Khamenei is dead. Good.

    But I have family in Iran. My dad is there right now. And I'm not celebrating yet. Here's why.

    Iran built the most layered contingency plan on Earth for this exact moment. Four levels of succession for every key position. Pre-authorized military strikes. Regional commanders who don't need orders from Tehran to act.

    As you read this, there is already a new Supreme Leader. We just don't know who.

    This isn't Maduro. The government didn't get overthrown. The system absorbed the hit. That's what it was designed to do.

    Every credible intel assessment says the same thing: a post-Khamenei Iran is more likely to get harder, not softer. More IRGC. More dangerous. Potentially worse for the Iranian people than Khamenei himself.

    Don't breathe yet. There's a long way to go.

    https://x.com/Stealx/status/2027844448655495631

    I'm not sure about what happens next, if he's right about the regime's resilience.
    How long in practical terms can the US sustain a bombing campaign ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,217
    Taz said:

    Wes speaks

    Wes Streeting responds to Labour's by-election defeat in a speech at Labour north conference:

    "We’ve got to respect the voters by understanding why we lost. We lost because the party that represented hope in the eyes of too many voters wasn’t us.

    "I’m sure some of you will have heard the speech made by Hannah Spencer, the winning candidate, on election night. That was a Labour speech."

    "We mustn’t fall into the trap of sounding like our attack on the Greens is an attack on hope, or give the impression that there aren’t things that unite us as progressives, or – worst still – allow them to steal our clothes."

    "That doesn’t mean we can’t take on the Greens and their positions, we should and we will.

    "Because when it comes to the solutions needed to solve our country’s problems, we part ways with the Greens. And when it comes to being able to unite the centre and the left against Reform they don’t stand a chance."

    https://x.com/pronouncedalva/status/2027845672553087055?s=61

    "That doesn’t mean we can’t take on the Greens and their positions, we should and we will."

    Wes, did we ever get to the bottom of those vans at the by-election, the ones saying the Greens want your daughters for prostitues?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536

    nico67 said:

    FF43 said:

    Foreign-born voters stole by-election, Farage blasts: Amid rising alarm over suspected poll fraud, Reform leader says allowing non-British citizens into ballot booth threatens democracy

    Mail front page promoting Farage's all-out racism. Note Farage's elision that the voters weren't actually British citizens


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15602431/Foreign-born-voters-stole-election-Farage-rising-alarm-suspected-poll-fraud-Reform-leader-British-citizens-ballot-democracy.html


    Two of my kids were born abroad. Maybe Farage won't let them vote.
    What Farage wanted to say is only white people should be allowed to vote !

    Reform are a cancer on the country and need to be destroyed .
    Irrespective of their colour (which is irrelevant) there is a reasonable case that Commonwealth (and Irish) citizens shouldn’t get the vote. It’s not unreasonable to limit the vote to citizens
    Perhaps, but Farage's position is not a considered reflection of the voting sysyem, it's fury people in a by-election did not vote his way. Had they voted the other way he'd not care.

    How can we be sure? It was not in their manifesto, which was quite detailed and included reducing postal votes and having PR
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,182
    Trumps pronouncements about what he’s achieving in this war seem a little all over the shop. Does he and his team know what he really needs, before reaching for the down ramp?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,437
    I'm not aware that Farage has raised the issue of Commonwealth citizens (or even 'not British born') being given the vote before today. Pure coincidence, I'm sure, nothing at all to do with last Thursday.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 973
    Taz said:

    Wes speaks

    Wes Streeting responds to Labour's by-election defeat in a speech at Labour north conference:

    "We’ve got to respect the voters by understanding why we lost. We lost because the party that represented hope in the eyes of too many voters wasn’t us.

    "I’m sure some of you will have heard the speech made by Hannah Spencer, the winning candidate, on election night. That was a Labour speech."

    "We mustn’t fall into the trap of sounding like our attack on the Greens is an attack on hope, or give the impression that there aren’t things that unite us as progressives, or – worst still – allow them to steal our clothes."

    "That doesn’t mean we can’t take on the Greens and their positions, we should and we will.

    "Because when it comes to the solutions needed to solve our country’s problems, we part ways with the Greens. And when it comes to being able to unite the centre and the left against Reform they don’t stand a chance."

    https://x.com/pronouncedalva/status/2027845672553087055?s=61

    I was fine with that until the last paragraph.

    Had he left that out, he would have set a stake in the ground.

    The final paragraph is unnecessarily arrogant

    Contrition is a virtue not a weakness.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,408

    An interesting question was posed last night.

    Tactical voting at least in 2024 was very strong between Lib Dems and Labour. Not sure if it was as strong between Greens and Labour but I assume so.

    What do these voters think now? Are they less likely to vote tactically now due to a hatred of Labour?

    Tactical voting has never been universal, and there are many in all parties that would never vote tactically. I suspect that it will be more subtle. Will Clive Lewis fight off the Green challenge better than Streeting? Almost certainly.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,314
    The real losers are the Brit Awards winners, who'd normally be splashed on the Sunday front pages.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 973
    Foxy said:

    An interesting question was posed last night.

    Tactical voting at least in 2024 was very strong between Lib Dems and Labour. Not sure if it was as strong between Greens and Labour but I assume so.

    What do these voters think now? Are they less likely to vote tactically now due to a hatred of Labour?

    Tactical voting has never been universal, and there are many in all parties that would never vote tactically. I suspect that it will be more subtle. Will Clive Lewis fight off the Green challenge better than Streeting? Almost certainly.
    Clive Lewis would fight off 90% of the Labour vote including me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536
    Nigelb said:

    Kharkiv. Right now.

    A russian-iranian Shahed hits a dormitory. Fire. Evacuations underway.

    When it’s Dubai, the world is outraged.
    When it’s Kharkiv, the world scrolls past.

    Ukrainian lives are not worth less. Our lives are not cheaper.

    https://x.com/NAFOvoyager/status/2027992427412300102

    If they hit Dubai every day people would get used to the new normal. We can get used to everything and anything however horrible, it is a great strength and yet also tragedy of humankind.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,525
    Brixian59 said:

    Taz said:



    Ayatollah Khamanei closer !!

    First, of course.

    Taz said:



    Ayatollah Khamanei closer !!

    First, of course.

    You must be perfecting a Stansfield type press on the keeper, to continually be first to post.

    Most impressive.
    Just like Stanno, right place right time.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,220
    Cheers 🍻



    War, what war?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536
    Nigelb said:

    This seems a plausible analysis.

    Khamenei is dead. Good.

    But I have family in Iran. My dad is there right now. And I'm not celebrating yet. Here's why.

    Iran built the most layered contingency plan on Earth for this exact moment. Four levels of succession for every key position. Pre-authorized military strikes. Regional commanders who don't need orders from Tehran to act.

    As you read this, there is already a new Supreme Leader. We just don't know who.

    This isn't Maduro. The government didn't get overthrown. The system absorbed the hit. That's what it was designed to do.

    Every credible intel assessment says the same thing: a post-Khamenei Iran is more likely to get harder, not softer. More IRGC. More dangerous. Potentially worse for the Iranian people than Khamenei himself.

    Don't breathe yet. There's a long way to go.

    https://x.com/Stealx/status/2027844448655495631

    I'm not sure about what happens next, if he's right about the regime's resilience.
    How long in practical terms can the US sustain a bombing campaign ?

    Probably explains the decapitation strategies employed by Trump in different forms in Iran and Venezuela - whatever else may happen some awful dictators are removed so he can always fall back on 'are you saying getting rid of x was a bad thing?' if people criticise what other response there is.
  • I cannot understand how in any way that the response to Gorton and Denton needs or wants Labour to become very left wing. That seems utterly insane and nuts.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 973
    Nigelb said:

    This seems a plausible analysis.

    Khamenei is dead. Good.

    But I have family in Iran. My dad is there right now. And I'm not celebrating yet. Here's why.

    Iran built the most layered contingency plan on Earth for this exact moment. Four levels of succession for every key position. Pre-authorized military strikes. Regional commanders who don't need orders from Tehran to act.

    As you read this, there is already a new Supreme Leader. We just don't know who.

    This isn't Maduro. The government didn't get overthrown. The system absorbed the hit. That's what it was designed to do.

    Every credible intel assessment says the same thing: a post-Khamenei Iran is more likely to get harder, not softer. More IRGC. More dangerous. Potentially worse for the Iranian people than Khamenei himself.

    Don't breathe yet. There's a long way to go.

    https://x.com/Stealx/status/2027844448655495631

    I'm not sure about what happens next, if he's right about the regime's resilience.
    How long in practical terms can the US sustain a bombing campaign ?

    The basic fact that Trump and Netanyahu fail to consider is this.

    There is one of them.
    If they go, via the ballot box or via other means, what follows will be a totally different policy or a clone policy but never quite the same.

    The Ayatollah is a multi headed Hydra, chop one head off and another emerges, it might be as venomous, more venomous, it's always going to be venomous enough to be very poisonous.

    It can and will out live it's slayer one way or another, it may have tens of thousands of lives yet.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,876
    Nigelb said:

    This seems a plausible analysis.

    Khamenei is dead. Good.

    But I have family in Iran. My dad is there right now. And I'm not celebrating yet. Here's why.

    Iran built the most layered contingency plan on Earth for this exact moment. Four levels of succession for every key position. Pre-authorized military strikes. Regional commanders who don't need orders from Tehran to act.

    As you read this, there is already a new Supreme Leader. We just don't know who.

    This isn't Maduro. The government didn't get overthrown. The system absorbed the hit. That's what it was designed to do.

    Every credible intel assessment says the same thing: a post-Khamenei Iran is more likely to get harder, not softer. More IRGC. More dangerous. Potentially worse for the Iranian people than Khamenei himself.

    Don't breathe yet. There's a long way to go.

    https://x.com/Stealx/status/2027844448655495631

    I'm not sure about what happens next, if he's right about the regime's resilience.
    How long in practical terms can the US sustain a bombing campaign ?

    The US has been dragged into an Israeli operation because Trump needs to distract from his relationship with likely Mossad agent Epstein. There is no deeper thinking behind it and I doubt any kind of drawn out conflict can be sustained.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536

    I cannot understand how in any way that the response to Gorton and Denton needs or wants Labour to become very left wing. That seems utterly insane and nuts.

    Never stopped anyone before. The majority of Labour who thought just one more push of Corbyn would work did not mostly go away, 2019 just temporarily persuaded them a new approach was needed. It worked, but given polling since they are reverting.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,801

    The real losers are the Brit Awards winners, who'd normally be splashed on the Sunday front pages.

    I’ve gotten old. I didn’t even realise it was still on (nor, I suspect, would I be able to identify any of the winners or their work).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,644
    Nigelb said:

    This seems a plausible analysis.

    Khamenei is dead. Good.

    But I have family in Iran. My dad is there right now. And I'm not celebrating yet. Here's why.

    Iran built the most layered contingency plan on Earth for this exact moment. Four levels of succession for every key position. Pre-authorized military strikes. Regional commanders who don't need orders from Tehran to act.

    As you read this, there is already a new Supreme Leader. We just don't know who.

    This isn't Maduro. The government didn't get overthrown. The system absorbed the hit. That's what it was designed to do.

    Every credible intel assessment says the same thing: a post-Khamenei Iran is more likely to get harder, not softer. More IRGC. More dangerous. Potentially worse for the Iranian people than Khamenei himself.

    Don't breathe yet. There's a long way to go.

    https://x.com/Stealx/status/2027844448655495631

    I'm not sure about what happens next, if he's right about the regime's resilience.
    How long in practical terms can the US sustain a bombing campaign ?

    The army chief of staff also now dead. Clear that the US/Israel strategy is to kill as many senior people as possible. How many do they need to kill before the regime starts to fall apart, or the new targets in the crosshairs decide to adopt a more emollient strategy?

    I can't say that I have any idea, and realistically no-one else will have either - but of course it will be obvious with hindsight.

    The Supreme Leader, Defence minister, army chief of staff and the police intelligence chief is a pretty good start 24 hours in. But maybe it's harder now after the initial attacks.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,971
    edited 9:35AM
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Kharkiv. Right now.

    A russian-iranian Shahed hits a dormitory. Fire. Evacuations underway.

    When it’s Dubai, the world is outraged.
    When it’s Kharkiv, the world scrolls past.

    Ukrainian lives are not worth less. Our lives are not cheaper.

    https://x.com/NAFOvoyager/status/2027992427412300102

    If they hit Dubai every day people would get used to the new normal. We can get used to everything and anything however horrible, it is a great strength and yet also tragedy of humankind.
    The difference is the inhabitants of Dubai are much less committed to the place they live in than Ukrainians. Dubai is an entirely transactional country.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,346
    edited 9:38AM
    Nigelb said:

    This seems a plausible analysis.

    Khamenei is dead. Good.

    But I have family in Iran. My dad is there right now. And I'm not celebrating yet. Here's why.

    Iran built the most layered contingency plan on Earth for this exact moment. Four levels of succession for every key position. Pre-authorized military strikes. Regional commanders who don't need orders from Tehran to act.

    As you read this, there is already a new Supreme Leader. We just don't know who.

    This isn't Maduro. The government didn't get overthrown. The system absorbed the hit. That's what it was designed to do.

    Every credible intel assessment says the same thing: a post-Khamenei Iran is more likely to get harder, not softer. More IRGC. More dangerous. Potentially worse for the Iranian people than Khamenei himself.

    Don't breathe yet. There's a long way to go.

    https://x.com/Stealx/status/2027844448655495631

    I'm not sure about what happens next, if he's right about the regime's resilience.
    How long in practical terms can the US sustain a bombing campaign ?

    I think they can sustain about two weeks in theatre without needing a very major resupply operation (which would involve getting us to allow use of Diego Garcia, and aiui Cyprus and maybe one in the UK as well). In the Gulf War they had a continuous resupply shuttle from Diego Garcia, which is also a naval base.

    Ditto the use of the strategic stealth bombers for an extended period. Doing it direct from the USA is much more intensive on use of air tankers.

    I think that was from the Telegraph Battle Lines podcast from yesterday - very, very good.

    They also did some excellent analysis of what would happen to Iran, in terms of Balkanisation by region (Kurds etc).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_8TPiKxolg&list=PLJnf_DDTfIVAif-vifC6F2aoPB8GIw6dk (45 minutes)

    The US and Israel have launched what President Donald Trump has described as "major combat operations" to try to bring about the end of the Iranian regime.

    In this bonus episode, Roland and Venetia look at what we know so far - from Trump’s speech to strikes across the Middle East - and what might happen next, while Henry Bodkin, The Telegraph’s Jerusalem correspondent, reports from on the ground in Israel amid air raid sirens around the country.

    Plus, Roland speaks to Jonathan Hackett, a 20-year US Marine Corps veteran and special operations capabilities specialist, as well as the author of Iran's Shadow Weapons: Covert Action, Intelligence Operations and Unconventional Warfare. Their conversation - which was recorded shortly before the attack began - covers how Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was offered an escape route but refused to take it, the state of the IRGC and why regime change in Iran will be so difficult.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,525
    Because I’ve been following this my Facebook feed is full of ads for property in Dubai 😶‍🌫️😂
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,220

    Hah.


    That stuff’s horrible. I’m definitely sticking with the other black stuff!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,182
    edited 9:42AM
    On topic {and following on from Living Boys recent post} Regime change is certainly not going to be the outcome UNLESS Iranian security forces and military commanders listen to Trump and Bibi and turn on their own side. But the Iranian revolutions Praetorian Guard and its commanders have vested interest to put further Emperor’s on the throne and commanders in place. Not least, your guns pointing at everyone else and their families, put them down, everyone picks them up and points them at you at your family. When things like this start, hard to be sure where it’s going to go, but I’m very confident in my analysis. By the time Trump walks away proclaiming the most brilliant deal extracted from the Iranians, and most brilliant victory for USA, the Israeli government will have achieved more than enough degradation of the Iranian military industrial war machine this year to serve them well in the coming election, neither ally truly expecting regime change. Sat securely in another part of earth, urging civilians of a country to rise up against security services and military, is a morally questionable approach to take.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,586

    Hah.


    Is Dubai chocolate actually any good?
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,525
    Green leader on LauraK with declaring the attack both illegal and unprovoked.

    The Greens, especially after we saw the deputy leader at a demo which was reportedly pro regime yesterday, are pretty much at worst okay with the Mullahs.

    https://x.com/kasraaarabi/status/2027828487113809967?s=61
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536
    Brixian59 said:

    Taz said:

    Wes speaks

    Wes Streeting responds to Labour's by-election defeat in a speech at Labour north conference:

    "We’ve got to respect the voters by understanding why we lost. We lost because the party that represented hope in the eyes of too many voters wasn’t us.

    "I’m sure some of you will have heard the speech made by Hannah Spencer, the winning candidate, on election night. That was a Labour speech."

    "We mustn’t fall into the trap of sounding like our attack on the Greens is an attack on hope, or give the impression that there aren’t things that unite us as progressives, or – worst still – allow them to steal our clothes."

    "That doesn’t mean we can’t take on the Greens and their positions, we should and we will.

    "Because when it comes to the solutions needed to solve our country’s problems, we part ways with the Greens. And when it comes to being able to unite the centre and the left against Reform they don’t stand a chance."

    https://x.com/pronouncedalva/status/2027845672553087055?s=61

    I was fine with that until the last paragraph.

    Had he left that out, he would have set a stake in the ground.

    The final paragraph is unnecessarily arrogant

    Contrition is a virtue not a weakness.
    I don't think it's unnecessarily arrogant. Labour need to presentvas the leader of the left or people might think Green is still fine.

    Fail to be the leader and you get the Tories, struggling to get noticed with Reform looking like the part of the right with the momentum (temporarily or otherwise).
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,223
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    This seems a plausible analysis.

    Khamenei is dead. Good.

    But I have family in Iran. My dad is there right now. And I'm not celebrating yet. Here's why.

    Iran built the most layered contingency plan on Earth for this exact moment. Four levels of succession for every key position. Pre-authorized military strikes. Regional commanders who don't need orders from Tehran to act.

    As you read this, there is already a new Supreme Leader. We just don't know who.

    This isn't Maduro. The government didn't get overthrown. The system absorbed the hit. That's what it was designed to do.

    Every credible intel assessment says the same thing: a post-Khamenei Iran is more likely to get harder, not softer. More IRGC. More dangerous. Potentially worse for the Iranian people than Khamenei himself.

    Don't breathe yet. There's a long way to go.

    https://x.com/Stealx/status/2027844448655495631

    I'm not sure about what happens next, if he's right about the regime's resilience.
    How long in practical terms can the US sustain a bombing campaign ?

    I think they can sustain about two weeks in theatre without needing a very major resupply operation (which would involve getting us to allow use of Diego Garcia, and aiui Cyprus and maybe one in the UK as well).

    Ditto the use of the strategic stealth bombers for an extended period. Doing it direct from the USA is much more intensive on use of air tankers.

    I think that was from the Telegraph Battle Lines podcast - very, very good.

    They also did some excellent analysis of what would happen to Iran, in terms of Balkanisation by region (Kurds etc).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_8TPiKxolg&list=PLJnf_DDTfIVAif-vifC6F2aoPB8GIw6dk (45 minutes)

    The US and Israel have launched what President Donald Trump has described as "major combat operations" to try to bring about the end of the Iranian regime.

    In this bonus episode, Roland and Venetia look at what we know so far - from Trump’s speech to strikes across the Middle East - and what might happen next, while Henry Bodkin, The Telegraph’s Jerusalem correspondent, reports from on the ground in Israel amid air raid sirens around the country.

    Plus, Roland speaks to Jonathan Hackett, a 20-year US Marine Corps veteran and special operations capabilities specialist, as well as the author of Iran's Shadow Weapons: Covert Action, Intelligence Operations and Unconventional Warfare. Their conversation - which was recorded shortly before the attack began - covers how Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was offered an escape route but refused to take it, the state of the IRGC and why regime change in Iran will be so difficult.
    If the Kurds in Iran and Iraq link up, Türkiye is going to be extremely unhappy. That has an impact in Iranian Azerbaijan too. This can get very messy indeed.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,182

    Hah.


    Rupert, on look out duty, see’s a boat trying to come ashore…
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,223
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Kharkiv. Right now.

    A russian-iranian Shahed hits a dormitory. Fire. Evacuations underway.

    When it’s Dubai, the world is outraged.
    When it’s Kharkiv, the world scrolls past.

    Ukrainian lives are not worth less. Our lives are not cheaper.

    https://x.com/NAFOvoyager/status/2027992427412300102

    If they hit Dubai every day people would get used to the new normal. We can get used to everything and anything however horrible, it is a great strength and yet also tragedy of humankind.
    The difference is the inhabitants of Dubai are much less committed to the place they live in than Ukrainians. Dubai is an entirely transactional country.
    And has no sustainable water supply.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,570

    Hah.


    Is Dubai chocolate actually any good?
    No.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,182

    Hah.


    Is Dubai chocolate actually any good?
    Who cares, when they give you such massive plate fulls?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,801

    Nigelb said:

    This seems a plausible analysis.

    Khamenei is dead. Good.

    But I have family in Iran. My dad is there right now. And I'm not celebrating yet. Here's why.

    Iran built the most layered contingency plan on Earth for this exact moment. Four levels of succession for every key position. Pre-authorized military strikes. Regional commanders who don't need orders from Tehran to act.

    As you read this, there is already a new Supreme Leader. We just don't know who.

    This isn't Maduro. The government didn't get overthrown. The system absorbed the hit. That's what it was designed to do.

    Every credible intel assessment says the same thing: a post-Khamenei Iran is more likely to get harder, not softer. More IRGC. More dangerous. Potentially worse for the Iranian people than Khamenei himself.

    Don't breathe yet. There's a long way to go.

    https://x.com/Stealx/status/2027844448655495631

    I'm not sure about what happens next, if he's right about the regime's resilience.
    How long in practical terms can the US sustain a bombing campaign ?

    The army chief of staff also now dead. Clear that the US/Israel strategy is to kill as many senior people as possible. How many do they need to kill before the regime starts to fall apart, or the new targets in the crosshairs decide to adopt a more emollient strategy?

    I can't say that I have any idea, and realistically no-one else will have either - but of course it will be obvious with hindsight.

    The Supreme Leader, Defence minister, army chief of staff and the police intelligence chief is a pretty good start 24 hours in. But maybe it's harder now after the initial attacks.
    The open question is how the regime copes with a power vacuum. I don’t profess to understand how the inner machinations of the Islamic Republic work, but the problem it has had for a number of years is a lack of clear succession. I believe it is commonly accepted Raisi was being groomed as Khamenei’s successor before his death, but not aware of anything since. If they have no obvious candidate that increases the risk of the whole thing falling apart. They need someone who can demonstrate legitimacy and who is able to exert authority. It’s not clear who that person would be.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,971
    Polymarket

    Six suspected insiders made $1.2M betting on a US strike on Iran

    Most of these wallets:

    • were funded in the last 24h
    • specifically bet for February 28
    • bought "yes" hours before the strike


    https://x.com/bubblemaps/status/2027718004193300791
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,748

    I cannot understand how in any way that the response to Gorton and Denton needs or wants Labour to become very left wing. That seems utterly insane and nuts.

    Girton and Denton is a convenient hook for those who want more left-wing policies. Simple as that. (Me, I reckon that blaming billionaires is as facile and nasty as blaming immigrants.)

    The better (but harder) lesson is optimism, I reckon. Starmer, by age, temperament and life story, struggles with that. But if you can combine optimism in politics with realism in government, it's a potent mix.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536
    Taz said:

    Green leader on LauraK with declaring the attack both illegal and unprovoked.

    The Greens, especially after we saw the deputy leader at a demo which was reportedly pro regime yesterday, are pretty much at worst okay with the Mullahs.

    https://x.com/kasraaarabi/status/2027828487113809967?s=61

    I feel like whilst some individuals will go that way Zak and the wider party will avoid the public perception pitfall of sympathising with the regime rather than just objecting to the campaign.

    Your Party may struggle more with that.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,777
    Cicero said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    This seems a plausible analysis.

    Khamenei is dead. Good.

    But I have family in Iran. My dad is there right now. And I'm not celebrating yet. Here's why.

    Iran built the most layered contingency plan on Earth for this exact moment. Four levels of succession for every key position. Pre-authorized military strikes. Regional commanders who don't need orders from Tehran to act.

    As you read this, there is already a new Supreme Leader. We just don't know who.

    This isn't Maduro. The government didn't get overthrown. The system absorbed the hit. That's what it was designed to do.

    Every credible intel assessment says the same thing: a post-Khamenei Iran is more likely to get harder, not softer. More IRGC. More dangerous. Potentially worse for the Iranian people than Khamenei himself.

    Don't breathe yet. There's a long way to go.

    https://x.com/Stealx/status/2027844448655495631

    I'm not sure about what happens next, if he's right about the regime's resilience.
    How long in practical terms can the US sustain a bombing campaign ?

    I think they can sustain about two weeks in theatre without needing a very major resupply operation (which would involve getting us to allow use of Diego Garcia, and aiui Cyprus and maybe one in the UK as well).

    Ditto the use of the strategic stealth bombers for an extended period. Doing it direct from the USA is much more intensive on use of air tankers.

    I think that was from the Telegraph Battle Lines podcast - very, very good.

    They also did some excellent analysis of what would happen to Iran, in terms of Balkanisation by region (Kurds etc).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_8TPiKxolg&list=PLJnf_DDTfIVAif-vifC6F2aoPB8GIw6dk (45 minutes)

    The US and Israel have launched what President Donald Trump has described as "major combat operations" to try to bring about the end of the Iranian regime.

    In this bonus episode, Roland and Venetia look at what we know so far - from Trump’s speech to strikes across the Middle East - and what might happen next, while Henry Bodkin, The Telegraph’s Jerusalem correspondent, reports from on the ground in Israel amid air raid sirens around the country.

    Plus, Roland speaks to Jonathan Hackett, a 20-year US Marine Corps veteran and special operations capabilities specialist, as well as the author of Iran's Shadow Weapons: Covert Action, Intelligence Operations and Unconventional Warfare. Their conversation - which was recorded shortly before the attack began - covers how Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was offered an escape route but refused to take it, the state of the IRGC and why regime change in Iran will be so difficult.
    If the Kurds in Iran and Iraq link up, Türkiye is going to be extremely unhappy. That has an impact in Iranian Azerbaijan too. This can get very messy indeed.
    Don't worry this level-headed diplomatic genius is on the case.

    Iran just stated that they are going to hit very hard today, harder than they have ever hit before. THEY BETTER NOT DO THAT, HOWEVER, BECAUSE IF THEY DO, WE WILL HIT THEM WITH A FORCE THAT HAS NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE! Thank you for your attention to this matter! President DONALD J. TRUMP
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,220
    Cicero said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Kharkiv. Right now.

    A russian-iranian Shahed hits a dormitory. Fire. Evacuations underway.

    When it’s Dubai, the world is outraged.
    When it’s Kharkiv, the world scrolls past.

    Ukrainian lives are not worth less. Our lives are not cheaper.

    https://x.com/NAFOvoyager/status/2027992427412300102

    If they hit Dubai every day people would get used to the new normal. We can get used to everything and anything however horrible, it is a great strength and yet also tragedy of humankind.
    The difference is the inhabitants of Dubai are much less committed to the place they live in than Ukrainians. Dubai is an entirely transactional country.
    And has no sustainable water supply.
    Eh? There’s literally a dozen desalination plants in the UAE.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,586

    Hah.


    Is Dubai chocolate actually any good?
    Who cares, when they give you such massive plate fulls?
    If food is bad, a large portion is not a good thing.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,802
    A dreadful sight in Dubai after Iranian missile strikes. I urge caution before clicking on link.

    https://x.com/GBNews23653867/status/2027899681745867080?s=20
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,637

    The real losers are the Brit Awards winners, who'd normally be splashed on the Sunday front pages.

    I’ve gotten old. I didn’t even realise it was still on (nor, I suspect, would I be able to identify any of the winners or their work).
    Ditto
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,637
    Taz said:

    Green leader on LauraK with declaring the attack both illegal and unprovoked.

    The Greens, especially after we saw the deputy leader at a demo which was reportedly pro regime yesterday, are pretty much at worst okay with the Mullahs.

    https://x.com/kasraaarabi/status/2027828487113809967?s=61

    Loons
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536
    edited 9:48AM

    I cannot understand how in any way that the response to Gorton and Denton needs or wants Labour to become very left wing. That seems utterly insane and nuts.

    Girton and Denton is a convenient hook for those who want more left-wing policies. Simple as that. (Me, I reckon that blaming billionaires is as facile and nasty as blaming immigrants.)

    The better (but harder) lesson is optimism, I reckon. Starmer, by age, temperament and life story, struggles with that. But if you can combine optimism in politics with realism in government, it's a potent mix.
    "It's all shit and we can manage it better" is a less inspiring message than "We can make things better".

    Of course, sometimes things are shit and difficult to fix and the public don't like hearing it, and if you're over optimistic and overpromise people call you out.

    So it's a hard line to walk - and people only believe you if they already like you anyway.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,525
    Lucy Powell causing problems for Labour on legal migration and the reasonable changes being made.

    Concerned at it costing votes.

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2028043564622516693?s=61
  • I cannot understand how in any way that the response to Gorton and Denton needs or wants Labour to become very left wing. That seems utterly insane and nuts.

    Girton and Denton is a convenient hook for those who want more left-wing policies. Simple as that. (Me, I reckon that blaming billionaires is as facile and nasty as blaming immigrants.)

    The better (but harder) lesson is optimism, I reckon. Starmer, by age, temperament and life story, struggles with that. But if you can combine optimism in politics with realism in government, it's a potent mix.
    I basically think Sir Keir needs to quit and be replaced. However I don’t want a left wing replacement. I want somebody who can communicate better.

    If Labour elect somebody and lurch to the proper left I won’t vote for them again.
  • Taz said:

    Lucy Powell causing problems for Labour on legal migration and the reasonable changes being made.

    Concerned at it costing votes.

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2028043564622516693?s=61

    So they’re going to learn all of the wrong lessons.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,176
    Morning all 🙂

    After yesterday’s over-excited hysteria, a more sober assessment of the impact of events is starting to come through.

    I’m sure no one thought the death of Khamanei or indeed most of the immediate leadership would bring the whole house of cards down - it rarely works that way. In 1989, the Communist regimes of Eastern Europe basically gave up and melted away - except Romania. When you have a Gaddafi or a Saddam, their capture or demise means the end of the regime because so much of it is individually invested in them.

    Iran isn’t like that - there is a not insignificant portion of the population who are sad and angry at what they see as the murder of their religious leader. Many others are for now keeping their own counsel and that’s probably wise. Absent an occupying military force, it will have to be the population who can force change (back to 1989). Could, would, the regime fight a mass movement on that scale? The Shah couldn’t, the SED couldn’t - do we assume the IRGC would?

    Iran isn’t yet completely incapacitated militarily and seems to have drones and missiles to fire at some of its neighbours (though not all). Presumably the job of follow up Israeli and American strikes will be to further weaken that capability and perhaps seek to weaken the IRGC beyond the immediate command structure.

    We shouldn’t discount the possibility a new leadership will follow a more pragmatic line toning down the reality if not the rhetoric. I note Hezbollah have decided to sit this one out which has probably spared them an Israeli strike or twenty.

    As I argued yesterday, I suspect the one thing everyone wants to avoid is the wholesale collapse of Government and society in Iran. Some on here were actively supportive of anarchy - we’ve never experienced it here. The idea of life without the protective blanket of a functioning civil society isn’t easy to contemplate. No work, no money, no food, no law and order - it’s little wonder some come to look back on repression as preferable and often embrace a new tyranny for the certainties it brings.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,644
    Sandpit said:

    Cheers 🍻



    War, what war?

    How many days supply do they have?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536

    I cannot understand how in any way that the response to Gorton and Denton needs or wants Labour to become very left wing. That seems utterly insane and nuts.

    Girton and Denton is a convenient hook for those who want more left-wing policies. Simple as that. (Me, I reckon that blaming billionaires is as facile and nasty as blaming immigrants.)

    The better (but harder) lesson is optimism, I reckon. Starmer, by age, temperament and life story, struggles with that. But if you can combine optimism in politics with realism in government, it's a potent mix.
    I basically think Sir Keir needs to quit and be replaced. However I don’t want a left wing replacement. I want somebody who can communicate better.

    If Labour elect somebody and lurch to the proper left I won’t vote for them again.
    Who would you then go for? Greens are further left and the Tories are trying to protect their right flank with little interest in the centre. So eveyone's favourite mutable NOTA, the LDs?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,210

    A dreadful sight in Dubai after Iranian missile strikes. I urge caution before clicking on link.

    https://x.com/GBNews23653867/status/2027899681745867080?s=20

    :lol: Naughty.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,971

    Hah.


    Is Dubai chocolate actually any good?
    Dubai chocolate costs twice as much as other chocolate for no discernable reason.

    Maybe a metaphor.
  • kle4 said:

    I cannot understand how in any way that the response to Gorton and Denton needs or wants Labour to become very left wing. That seems utterly insane and nuts.

    Girton and Denton is a convenient hook for those who want more left-wing policies. Simple as that. (Me, I reckon that blaming billionaires is as facile and nasty as blaming immigrants.)

    The better (but harder) lesson is optimism, I reckon. Starmer, by age, temperament and life story, struggles with that. But if you can combine optimism in politics with realism in government, it's a potent mix.
    I basically think Sir Keir needs to quit and be replaced. However I don’t want a left wing replacement. I want somebody who can communicate better.

    If Labour elect somebody and lurch to the proper left I won’t vote for them again.
    Who would you then go for? Greens are further left and the Tories are trying to protect their right flank with little interest in the centre. So eveyone's favourite mutable NOTA, the LDs?
    Probably would spoil my ballot. But I’d consider Tory only on the basis that I think Badenoch the only way I can register the fact I don’t want Reform or Labour and I would vote for a party that could actually be elected.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,644

    Nigelb said:

    This seems a plausible analysis.

    Khamenei is dead. Good.

    But I have family in Iran. My dad is there right now. And I'm not celebrating yet. Here's why.

    Iran built the most layered contingency plan on Earth for this exact moment. Four levels of succession for every key position. Pre-authorized military strikes. Regional commanders who don't need orders from Tehran to act.

    As you read this, there is already a new Supreme Leader. We just don't know who.

    This isn't Maduro. The government didn't get overthrown. The system absorbed the hit. That's what it was designed to do.

    Every credible intel assessment says the same thing: a post-Khamenei Iran is more likely to get harder, not softer. More IRGC. More dangerous. Potentially worse for the Iranian people than Khamenei himself.

    Don't breathe yet. There's a long way to go.

    https://x.com/Stealx/status/2027844448655495631

    I'm not sure about what happens next, if he's right about the regime's resilience.
    How long in practical terms can the US sustain a bombing campaign ?

    The army chief of staff also now dead. Clear that the US/Israel strategy is to kill as many senior people as possible. How many do they need to kill before the regime starts to fall apart, or the new targets in the crosshairs decide to adopt a more emollient strategy?

    I can't say that I have any idea, and realistically no-one else will have either - but of course it will be obvious with hindsight.

    The Supreme Leader, Defence minister, army chief of staff and the police intelligence chief is a pretty good start 24 hours in. But maybe it's harder now after the initial attacks.
    The open question is how the regime copes with a power vacuum. I don’t profess to understand how the inner machinations of the Islamic Republic work, but the problem it has had for a number of years is a lack of clear succession. I believe it is commonly accepted Raisi was being groomed as Khamenei’s successor before his death, but not aware of anything since. If they have no obvious candidate that increases the risk of the whole thing falling apart. They need someone who can demonstrate legitimacy and who is able to exert authority. It’s not clear who that person would be.
    They still have the President and the military chain of command while they work out who the next supreme leader is. I don't think there's yet a power vacuum in Tehran.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536
    stodge said:

    Morning all 🙂

    After yesterday’s over-excited hysteria, a more sober assessment of the impact of events is starting to come through.

    I’m sure no one thought the death of Khamanei or indeed most of the immediate leadership would bring the whole house of cards down - it rarely works that way. In 1989, the Communist regimes of Eastern Europe basically gave up and melted away - except Romania. When you have a Gaddafi or a Saddam, their capture or demise means the end of the regime because so much of it is individually invested in them.

    Iran isn’t like that - there is a not insignificant portion of the population who are sad and angry at what they see as the murder of their religious leader. Many others are for now keeping their own counsel and that’s probably wise. Absent an occupying military force, it will have to be the population who can force change (back to 1989). Could, would, the regime fight a mass movement on that scale? The Shah couldn’t, the SED couldn’t - do we assume the IRGC would?

    Iran isn’t yet completely incapacitated militarily and seems to have drones and missiles to fire at some of its neighbours (though not all). Presumably the job of follow up Israeli and American strikes will be to further weaken that capability and perhaps seek to weaken the IRGC beyond the immediate command structure.

    We shouldn’t discount the possibility a new leadership will follow a more pragmatic line toning down the reality if not the rhetoric. I note Hezbollah have decided to sit this one out which has probably spared them an Israeli strike or twenty.

    As I argued yesterday, I suspect the one thing everyone wants to avoid is the wholesale collapse of Government and society in Iran. Some on here were actively supportive of anarchy - we’ve never experienced it here. The idea of life without the protective blanket of a functioning civil society isn’t easy to contemplate. No work, no money, no food, no law and order - it’s little wonder some come to look back on repression as preferable and often embrace a new tyranny for the certainties it brings.

    No government is in most cases worse than bad government, on an overall country basis at least not for individuals and groups.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,654
    diplomatofnight.com‬

    On top of all the reporting that this war of aggression was planned well in advance, it seems that the reporting also indicates that the US political leadership are quite literally too stupid to understand basic diplomacy. I mean literally not smart enough.

    https://bsky.app/profile/diplomatofnight.com/post/3mfxetjh7gs2y
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,217
    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Kharkiv. Right now.

    A russian-iranian Shahed hits a dormitory. Fire. Evacuations underway.

    When it’s Dubai, the world is outraged.
    When it’s Kharkiv, the world scrolls past.

    Ukrainian lives are not worth less. Our lives are not cheaper.

    https://x.com/NAFOvoyager/status/2027992427412300102

    If they hit Dubai every day people would get used to the new normal. We can get used to everything and anything however horrible, it is a great strength and yet also tragedy of humankind.
    The difference is the inhabitants of Dubai are much less committed to the place they live in than Ukrainians. Dubai is an entirely transactional country.
    And has no sustainable water supply.
    Eh? There’s literally a dozen desalination plants in the UAE.
    But the Gulf is gettng significantly more saline as a result. As well as destroying marine life, it is taking more energy to produce potable water.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,210

    A dreadful sight in Dubai after Iranian missile strikes. I urge caution before clicking on link.

    https://x.com/GBNews23653867/status/2027899681745867080?s=20

    :lol: Naughty.
    Stodge, how do you do normal sized Smilies - mine have still got gigantosis even after the update.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,220

    Sandpit said:

    Cheers 🍻



    War, what war?

    How many days supply do they have?
    Haha good question. One suspects that the draught beer runs out in a couple of weeks if the airport stays closed, but there’s plenty of stock of other stuff in the duty free warehouse that can be raided for the hotels and pubs if necessary.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,210

    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Kharkiv. Right now.

    A russian-iranian Shahed hits a dormitory. Fire. Evacuations underway.

    When it’s Dubai, the world is outraged.
    When it’s Kharkiv, the world scrolls past.

    Ukrainian lives are not worth less. Our lives are not cheaper.

    https://x.com/NAFOvoyager/status/2027992427412300102

    If they hit Dubai every day people would get used to the new normal. We can get used to everything and anything however horrible, it is a great strength and yet also tragedy of humankind.
    The difference is the inhabitants of Dubai are much less committed to the place they live in than Ukrainians. Dubai is an entirely transactional country.
    And has no sustainable water supply.
    Eh? There’s literally a dozen desalination plants in the UAE.
    But the Gulf is gettng significantly more saline as a result. As well as destroying marine life, it is taking more energy to produce potable water.
    I always thought they just used the salt rather than put it back.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,644

    Sandpit said:

    Cicero said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Kharkiv. Right now.

    A russian-iranian Shahed hits a dormitory. Fire. Evacuations underway.

    When it’s Dubai, the world is outraged.
    When it’s Kharkiv, the world scrolls past.

    Ukrainian lives are not worth less. Our lives are not cheaper.

    https://x.com/NAFOvoyager/status/2027992427412300102

    If they hit Dubai every day people would get used to the new normal. We can get used to everything and anything however horrible, it is a great strength and yet also tragedy of humankind.
    The difference is the inhabitants of Dubai are much less committed to the place they live in than Ukrainians. Dubai is an entirely transactional country.
    And has no sustainable water supply.
    Eh? There’s literally a dozen desalination plants in the UAE.
    But the Gulf is gettng significantly more saline as a result. As well as destroying marine life, it is taking more energy to produce potable water.
    Is that so?

    I would have thought that the effect of desalination plants was minimal relative to changes in river outflow and evaporation (due to wind and temperature changes).

    Do you have a link?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,217
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Kharkiv. Right now.

    A russian-iranian Shahed hits a dormitory. Fire. Evacuations underway.

    When it’s Dubai, the world is outraged.
    When it’s Kharkiv, the world scrolls past.

    Ukrainian lives are not worth less. Our lives are not cheaper.

    https://x.com/NAFOvoyager/status/2027992427412300102

    If they hit Dubai every day people would get used to the new normal. We can get used to everything and anything however horrible, it is a great strength and yet also tragedy of humankind.
    The difference is the inhabitants of Dubai are much less committed to the place they live in than Ukrainians. Dubai is an entirely transactional country.
    As long as the taxes stay zero, the people will stay.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,346
    Taz said:

    Green leader on LauraK with declaring the attack both illegal and unprovoked.

    The Greens, especially after we saw the deputy leader at a demo which was reportedly pro regime yesterday, are pretty much at worst okay with the Mullahs.

    https://x.com/kasraaarabi/status/2027828487113809967?s=61

    I think that will be a point of contention in history.

    Version A: Netanyahu and Trump launched their attack in the middle of negotiations, which were just a smokescreen they were putting up.

    Version B: Iran has spent the last decades being provocative, so anything goes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536
    edited 10:01AM

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell causing problems for Labour on legal migration and the reasonable changes being made.

    Concerned at it costing votes.

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2028043564622516693?s=61

    So they’re going to learn all of the wrong lessons.
    How out of character for the Labour left.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 7,105
    edited 10:02AM
    Trevor Phillips on Sky News was very good this morning.

    There’s no organised opposition in Iran and all the weapons are in the hands of the regime were some key talking points.

    And Trump and Netenyahu telling civilians to take back their country . How !


  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,837
    I missed my flight home. Yep. I hear you all wisely sighing: “that’s war for you”

    Actually, it was food poisoning. Woke up with weird shivers and chills then vomited for an hour

    Unideal for a 15 hour flight
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,197

    I cannot understand how in any way that the response to Gorton and Denton needs or wants Labour to become very left wing. That seems utterly insane and nuts.

    Girton and Denton is a convenient hook for those who want more left-wing policies. Simple as that. (Me, I reckon that blaming billionaires is as facile and nasty as blaming immigrants.)

    The better (but harder) lesson is optimism, I reckon. Starmer, by age, temperament and life story, struggles with that. But if you can combine optimism in politics with realism in government, it's a potent mix.
    I basically think Sir Keir needs to quit and be replaced. However I don’t want a left wing replacement. I want somebody who can communicate better.

    If Labour elect somebody and lurch to the proper left I won’t vote for them again.
    There's no chance of a return to the Corbynite left. That's over for Labour. It's been purged. It's not where the party is now (MPs nor members) and there are other vehicles for it - one of them on a roll.

    So with that said, looking ahead to the contest, either this year or next year, the communication and political skills of the replacement are imo more important than what wing of the party they are associated with.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,217
    glw said:

    Cicero said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    This seems a plausible analysis.

    Khamenei is dead. Good.

    But I have family in Iran. My dad is there right now. And I'm not celebrating yet. Here's why.

    Iran built the most layered contingency plan on Earth for this exact moment. Four levels of succession for every key position. Pre-authorized military strikes. Regional commanders who don't need orders from Tehran to act.

    As you read this, there is already a new Supreme Leader. We just don't know who.

    This isn't Maduro. The government didn't get overthrown. The system absorbed the hit. That's what it was designed to do.

    Every credible intel assessment says the same thing: a post-Khamenei Iran is more likely to get harder, not softer. More IRGC. More dangerous. Potentially worse for the Iranian people than Khamenei himself.

    Don't breathe yet. There's a long way to go.

    https://x.com/Stealx/status/2027844448655495631

    I'm not sure about what happens next, if he's right about the regime's resilience.
    How long in practical terms can the US sustain a bombing campaign ?

    I think they can sustain about two weeks in theatre without needing a very major resupply operation (which would involve getting us to allow use of Diego Garcia, and aiui Cyprus and maybe one in the UK as well).

    Ditto the use of the strategic stealth bombers for an extended period. Doing it direct from the USA is much more intensive on use of air tankers.

    I think that was from the Telegraph Battle Lines podcast - very, very good.

    They also did some excellent analysis of what would happen to Iran, in terms of Balkanisation by region (Kurds etc).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_8TPiKxolg&list=PLJnf_DDTfIVAif-vifC6F2aoPB8GIw6dk (45 minutes)

    The US and Israel have launched what President Donald Trump has described as "major combat operations" to try to bring about the end of the Iranian regime.

    In this bonus episode, Roland and Venetia look at what we know so far - from Trump’s speech to strikes across the Middle East - and what might happen next, while Henry Bodkin, The Telegraph’s Jerusalem correspondent, reports from on the ground in Israel amid air raid sirens around the country.

    Plus, Roland speaks to Jonathan Hackett, a 20-year US Marine Corps veteran and special operations capabilities specialist, as well as the author of Iran's Shadow Weapons: Covert Action, Intelligence Operations and Unconventional Warfare. Their conversation - which was recorded shortly before the attack began - covers how Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was offered an escape route but refused to take it, the state of the IRGC and why regime change in Iran will be so difficult.
    If the Kurds in Iran and Iraq link up, Türkiye is going to be extremely unhappy. That has an impact in Iranian Azerbaijan too. This can get very messy indeed.
    Don't worry this level-headed diplomatic genius is on the case.

    Iran just stated that they are going to hit very hard today, harder than they have ever hit before. THEY BETTER NOT DO THAT, HOWEVER, BECAUSE IF THEY DO, WE WILL HIT THEM WITH A FORCE THAT HAS NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE! Thank you for your attention to this matter! President DONALD J. TRUMP
    So more nukes on Iran than the Yanks dropped on Japan?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,644
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cheers 🍻



    War, what war?

    How many days supply do they have?
    Haha good question. One suspects that the draught beer runs out in a couple of weeks if the airport stays closed, but there’s plenty of stock of other stuff in the duty free warehouse that can be raided for the hotels and pubs if necessary.
    My thoughts and prayers are with you Sandpit at this difficult time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,210
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell causing problems for Labour on legal migration and the reasonable changes being made.

    Concerned at it costing votes.

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2028043564622516693?s=61

    So they’re going to learn all of the wrong lessons.
    How out of character for the Labour left.
    It's a core vote strategy. Lots of Labour are giving up dreams of winning the country and instead hoping to preserve a few seats in the heartland.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536
    Stereodog said:

    Hah.


    Is Dubai chocolate actually any good?
    No it's overpriced rubbish and has as much to do with Dubai as Fry's Turkish Delight does with Turkey. While we're on the subject, I am irrationally annoyed how everything that is just pistachio flavoured is now being called 'Dubai style'. It's like how you can't get anything that is caramel flavoured anymore without it being dubbed 'salted caramel'.
    Yes, it was like 4 years ago everything became salted, really odd.
  • “Why did Gorton & Denton voters back the Green Party?” Article in the Times.

    Does not suggest Labour should go very left wing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 101,536

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell causing problems for Labour on legal migration and the reasonable changes being made.

    Concerned at it costing votes.

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2028043564622516693?s=61

    So they’re going to learn all of the wrong lessons.
    How out of character for the Labour left.
    It's a core vote strategy. Lots of Labour are giving up dreams of winning the country and instead hoping to preserve a few seats in the heartland.
    Frankly i don't blame them, this government somehow skipped a honeymoon period and jumped right to 'exhausted ten year government' popularity.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 70,101
    nico67 said:

    Trevor Phillips on Sky News was very good this morning.

    There’s no organised opposition in Iran and all the weapons are in the hands of the regime were some key talking points.

    And Trump and Netenyahu telling civilians to take back their country . How !


    Good morning

    Trevor Phillips is one of the best and well informed journalist/ presenter in the media

    He has a very impressive cv

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Phillips
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,525

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell causing problems for Labour on legal migration and the reasonable changes being made.

    Concerned at it costing votes.

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2028043564622516693?s=61

    So they’re going to learn all of the wrong lessons.
    The lessons they want to learn are the ones that pander to,their own viewpoints.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 60,220

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cheers 🍻



    War, what war?

    How many days supply do they have?
    Haha good question. One suspects that the draught beer runs out in a couple of weeks if the airport stays closed, but there’s plenty of stock of other stuff in the duty free warehouse that can be raided for the hotels and pubs if necessary.
    My thoughts and prayers are with you Sandpit at this difficult time.
    And if all that fails, I’m going to be stuck with that bottle of 18-year-old Macallan in the cupboard. 🥃
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,644
    Stereodog said:

    Hah.


    Is Dubai chocolate actually any good?
    No it's overpriced rubbish and has as much to do with Dubai as Fry's Turkish Delight does with Turkey. While we're on the subject, I am irrationally annoyed how everything that is just pistachio flavoured is now being called 'Dubai style'. It's like how you can't get anything that is caramel flavoured anymore without it being dubbed 'salted caramel'.
    I haven't yet seen a bag of roasted pistachios being labelled as "Dubai style nuts" but it can't be long coming. I once made a Simnel cake with pistachio marzipan and if anyone was to dare call it a "Dubai style" Simnel cake it might tip me over the edge.

    Popular culture, eh? It has a lot to answer for.
  • TazTaz Posts: 25,525
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Green leader on LauraK with declaring the attack both illegal and unprovoked.

    The Greens, especially after we saw the deputy leader at a demo which was reportedly pro regime yesterday, are pretty much at worst okay with the Mullahs.

    https://x.com/kasraaarabi/status/2027828487113809967?s=61

    I think that will be a point of contention in history.

    Version A: Netanyahu and Trump launched their attack in the middle of negotiations, which were just a smokescreen they were putting up.

    Version B: Iran has spent the last decades being provocative, so anything goes.
    Whether or not it was legal he’s wrong on Iran not provoking.
  • Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell causing problems for Labour on legal migration and the reasonable changes being made.

    Concerned at it costing votes.

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2028043564622516693?s=61

    So they’re going to learn all of the wrong lessons.
    The lessons they want to learn are the ones that pander to,their own viewpoints.
    Maybe I should run and give it a go. The party seems full of absolute idiots who think if only we tried 2019 again.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,210

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell causing problems for Labour on legal migration and the reasonable changes being made.

    Concerned at it costing votes.

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2028043564622516693?s=61

    So they’re going to learn all of the wrong lessons.
    The lessons they want to learn are the ones that pander to,their own viewpoints.
    Maybe I should run and give it a go. The party seems full of absolute idiots who think if only we tried 2019 again.
    Problem will be getting a seat. All the candidates who might be good are outside parliament, and very unlikely to get into it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,837
    edited 10:13AM
    Is this is true, All Hail the Mighty Mossad


    “You’re not gonna believe this latest story. Over the past few years mossad undercover agents infiltrated as doctors and dentists in Iran. The Dentists gave priority to. Key military, and elite Iranian personnel. While doing a routine dental check up, they implanted tracking devices as fillings for cavities.

    “On the other side, Gastro doctors implanted similar devices in their elite patients. Yesterday mossad knew exactly where each one of them were ( komayne’s wife and family members included )and sent missiles at them. Over 400 elite military in government personnel were eliminated in the first few moments ( maybe that’s one of the reasons why they knew where he was hiding )when Israel attacked.”

    The mere fact that this *could* be true - it’s probably not, but no one can be sure - must terrify the fuck out of any enemy facing Israel

    https://x.com/neveragainlive1/status/2027986181397365014?s=46
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,289

    Stereodog said:

    Hah.


    Is Dubai chocolate actually any good?
    No it's overpriced rubbish and has as much to do with Dubai as Fry's Turkish Delight does with Turkey. While we're on the subject, I am irrationally annoyed how everything that is just pistachio flavoured is now being called 'Dubai style'. It's like how you can't get anything that is caramel flavoured anymore without it being dubbed 'salted caramel'.
    I haven't yet seen a bag of roasted pistachios being labelled as "Dubai style nuts" but it can't be long coming. I once made a Simnel cake with pistachio marzipan and if anyone was to dare call it a "Dubai style" Simnel cake it might tip me over the edge.

    Popular culture, eh? It has a lot to answer for.
    Dubai Style Simnel Cake would certainly cause a certain amount of theological confusion. Sounds delicious though.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,644
    kle4 said:

    Stereodog said:

    Hah.


    Is Dubai chocolate actually any good?
    No it's overpriced rubbish and has as much to do with Dubai as Fry's Turkish Delight does with Turkey. While we're on the subject, I am irrationally annoyed how everything that is just pistachio flavoured is now being called 'Dubai style'. It's like how you can't get anything that is caramel flavoured anymore without it being dubbed 'salted caramel'.
    Yes, it was like 4 years ago everything became salted, really odd.
    I think this sort of thing is because the middle has fallen out of a lot of markets. So the mass-market has to ruthlessly target the plurality, which is recently salted, high-protein and Dubai style and if you want anything else you're searching for an obscure niche.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,748
    edited 10:13AM
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Lucy Powell causing problems for Labour on legal migration and the reasonable changes being made.

    Concerned at it costing votes.

    https://x.com/samcoatessky/status/2028043564622516693?s=61

    So they’re going to learn all of the wrong lessons.
    The lessons they want to learn are the ones that pander to,their own viewpoints.
    Same as everyone else, then

    But F... F... S... Even if you think the problem with Labour's immigration policy is that it's costing votes, even if it is costing votes, you don't say that bit out loud on national TV.

    Once again, Starmer rose due to the lack of a better alternative. He falls when one emerges. At this rate, he will be PM for ages.
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