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Punters react to the tariff announcements – politicalbetting.com

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  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,671
    edited April 7

    Fishing said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    To @eek and the others questioning a Trump trade deal - I understand and have never really wanted a trade deal with the US anyway, however the negotiations for one were done by the last Tory Government with Trump before Biden came in and stopped it, so they are already quite progressed.

    Agriculture is the sticking point . So it’s not going to happen .
    Well it will only happen if the Government wishes to be known as the Government who destroyed farming and introduced chlorinated chicken to the UK.

    So as you correctly state - it's not going to happen...
    It should though. UK farming is inefficient and should go the same way as other inefficient industries. Opening our ports to cheap foreign food will reduce the cost of living, especially for the poorest who spend a higher proportion of their budget on food, as it did in the nineteenth century.

    It will also enable unproductive agricultural land (and labour and capital) to be used for productive purposes such as houses or industry.

    The government, dismal in most respects, has made a decent start by gradually reducing farm subsidies since we left the EU and removing the indefensible inheritance tax exemption but needs to go much further and faster.

    Of course the farmers and their protectionist Trumpian allies will complain, as they always do with anything that smacks of economic literacy.
    UK farming is relatively efficient - compared with many European countries.

    A major reason for inefficiency is the massive legal constraints on farming. See the discussion on US sourced chicken yesterday. We have as a society, mandated that farming land must be used in a constrained fashion.

    It's about choices. You could get production prices down to the lowest in the world, if you let rip. But people like hedge rows. And limits on chemicals. And....

    As to using agricultural land for other purposes (houses) - that is carefully and expressly forbidden. Hence the chap I knew, who could never get the police to come out for thefts and vandalism. But the authorities raced to his farm when he started putting the roof back on an old, abandoned building. For fear of he might be creating.... a house!
    There is a security aspect - it's not difficult to envisage global disruption of shipping lanes which would rapidly make dependence on imports dangerous. AFAIC remember, there is a figure of around 70% domestic production which is regarded as reasonably safe - one can fly in some products which simply can't be produced here.

    But apart from that, our emphasis on low-rise housing and protected countryside makes the inexorable rise in property prices inevitable. I understand the preference for detached housing, but think it's hard to imagine that skyscraper housing at 35% off wouldn't be snapped up. I think the history of poorly-built and poorly maintained tower blocks after WW2 casts an incredibly long shadow. I grew up in this well-maintained block: https://bdtu.dk/accommodations/property-overview/?key=20_2 - ideally located between a village on one side and a mainline railway station on the other. The 5-room flat quoted there is £1900/month, or there's a 1-bed flat for sale at £300K, both fairly reasonable given Danish wages. Copenhagen is quite small - you can easily walk across it in a day - so low-quality housing is squeezed out. Wouldn't many people opt for places like that rather than wait till they're 50 to afford a semi?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,966
    AnneJGP said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Interesting. To my mind it was the sort of ad a party puts out when they're scared and have nothing else.

    Good morning, everyone.
    It was stupid. And on the official account, on Twatter*, of a political party. Therefore it is highly probable that it was a Cunning Plan.

    *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3Mrfut-FSw
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,846
    Question. Did anyone predict negative 2025 US growth in the competition? I'm on 1.8%
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,193
    Scott_xP said:

    Bibi is due at The Whitehouse today IIRC

    Israel already has zero tariffs for US goods but was hit last week

    It will be interesting to see what 'deal' if any emerges today

    Tariff free eye tests and spectacles supplied to the IDF?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,011
    Have the libs been owned enough yet?
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,359
    Pulpstar said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Inflation watch -

    Office cleaning firm charge up 9.8% from last year.

    Min wage and employers NI ?
    Yes, it'll be that. And I don't think they're ripping us off as @Eek has said.
    No they won’t, or it’s unlikely. The cleaning contract I managed had a set formula and set inputs. So when the min wage changed or any other input changed it simply recalculated accordingly.

    As the bulk of the costs of these contracts are labour if you benchmark it you will get similar results.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,359
    AnneJGP said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Interesting. To my mind it was the sort of ad a party puts out when they're scared and have nothing else.

    Good morning, everyone.
    It was pretty poor.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,979
    Just as Starmer wants every school to show Adolescence, I wonder if a future US President* having reinstated the Department of Education will mandate that all High Schools screen Idiocracy before their students reach voting age

    *assuming the US emerges from trump as a functioning democracy

    It will of course be a history lesson at that point
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,359

    Scott_xP said:

    Bibi is due at The Whitehouse today IIRC

    Israel already has zero tariffs for US goods but was hit last week

    It will be interesting to see what 'deal' if any emerges today

    Tariff free eye tests and spectacles supplied to the IDF?
    Combovers to be compulsory for all balding men.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,177
    Quite a few of the people I follow on X starting to doubt Trump's plan. I'd say they're all reasonably MAGA till now.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,359

    scampi25 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FTSE now down 4.5% Dax 7% - less bad than Asia - maybe stabilising. Could be worse....

    It will be! Another 10-15% to come in my mind.
    Not sure. Got to be people with cash looking at the cheap prices ..
    Market crashes overshoot and then bounce back fairly quickly. My best guess would be the Dow bottoms out around 30-33k and ends the year around 40k. Buying now for long term is not terrible imo, but is really bad if any chance of getting spooked and selling in next few weeks.
    TBH if people get spooked by what’s going on or cannot handle a 20-25% correction in investing hen they shouldn’t bother as it’s not for them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,966

    Fishing said:

    eek said:

    nico67 said:

    To @eek and the others questioning a Trump trade deal - I understand and have never really wanted a trade deal with the US anyway, however the negotiations for one were done by the last Tory Government with Trump before Biden came in and stopped it, so they are already quite progressed.

    Agriculture is the sticking point . So it’s not going to happen .
    Well it will only happen if the Government wishes to be known as the Government who destroyed farming and introduced chlorinated chicken to the UK.

    So as you correctly state - it's not going to happen...
    It should though. UK farming is inefficient and should go the same way as other inefficient industries. Opening our ports to cheap foreign food will reduce the cost of living, especially for the poorest who spend a higher proportion of their budget on food, as it did in the nineteenth century.

    It will also enable unproductive agricultural land (and labour and capital) to be used for productive purposes such as houses or industry.

    The government, dismal in most respects, has made a decent start by gradually reducing farm subsidies since we left the EU and removing the indefensible inheritance tax exemption but needs to go much further and faster.

    Of course the farmers and their protectionist Trumpian allies will complain, as they always do with anything that smacks of economic literacy.
    UK farming is relatively efficient - compared with many European countries.

    A major reason for inefficiency is the massive legal constraints on farming. See the discussion on US sourced chicken yesterday. We have as a society, mandated that farming land must be used in a constrained fashion.

    It's about choices. You could get production prices down to the lowest in the world, if you let rip. But people like hedge rows. And limits on chemicals. And....

    As to using agricultural land for other purposes (houses) - that is carefully and expressly forbidden. Hence the chap I knew, who could never get the police to come out for thefts and vandalism. But the authorities raced to his farm when he started putting the roof back on an old, abandoned building. For fear of he might be creating.... a house!
    There is a security aspect - it's not difficult to envisage global disruption of shipping lanes which would rapidly make dependence on imports dangerous. AFAIC remember, there is a figure of around 70% domestic production which is regarded as reasonably safe - one can fly in some products which simply can't be produced here.

    But apart from that, our emphasis on low-rise housing and protected countryside makes the inexorable rise in property prices inevitable. I understand the preference for detached housing, but think it's hard to imagine that skyscraper housing at 35% off wouldn't be snapped up. I think the history of poorly-built and poorly maintained tower blocks after WW2 casts an incredibly long shadow. I grew up in this well-maintained block: https://bdtu.dk/accommodations/property-overview/?key=20_2 - ideally located between a village on one side and a mainline railway station on the other. The 5-room flat quoted there is £1900/month, or there's a 1-bed flat for sale at £300K, both fairly reasonable given Danish wages. Copenhagen is quite small - you can easily walk across it in a day - so low-quality housing is squeezed out. Wouldn't many people opt for places like that rather than wait till they're 50 to afford a semi?
    There's no especial need to squeeze everyone into small flats. If we doubled the amount of land used for housing in this country, it would a few percentage points of usage.

    As to why people don't like high buildings, the inability of fire brigades to fight fires at height is just the start of the fun.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,474
    FF43 said:

    Question. Did anyone predict negative 2025 US growth in the competition? I'm on 1.8%

    Ooops. I had 2.5%.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,979
    Republicans are frightened of speaking out against Trump in case they get primaried by Musk.

    Wisconsin has show that to be an empty threat.

    At what point do they discover their spine?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,243
    edited April 7
    AnneJGP said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Interesting. To my mind it was the sort of ad a party puts out when they're scared and have nothing else.

    Good morning, everyone.
    Nothing wrong with the underlying message- vote for Badenoch and you risk getting Farage, and vice versa. Conservatives have rightly been doing it to LibLabs for ever.

    And at least some of the horror at the expression of the attack is partisan pearl-clutching. Unless KB's sex and skin colour make insults off-limits.

    But that defence only goes so far, and not far enough. It's a bad advert, even if it's not evil.

    And @Roger is probably right- this shows the dangers of not getting professionals in to do your attack ads. You see the same thing in education, and I'm sure in other fields as well. Computer technology lets us all produce things that are superficially professional-looking, but don't have professional wisdom underpinning them.

    Oh, and good morning to you, as Rabbi Lionel Blue used to say.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,177
    Pulpstar said:

    Quite a few of the people I follow on X starting to doubt Trump's plan. I'd say they're all reasonably MAGA till now.

    As Musk's just reposted Friedman's "I, pencil" speech I'll add him to the list too.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,254
    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    FTSE down 6% at open

    @IGcom

    🚨 Defence stocks dive

    Rolls-Royce sinks another 12%
    Rheinmetall down 20%

    FTSE 100 has tumbled from record highs to a 1-year low in just a month.

    Well, I'm glad >50% of my net worth is in Porsche 911 parts.
    Trouble is at this rate we will all be riding bicycles.
    I've just got a Colnago Y1Rs like Pogacar's so I'm sorted. It's hideously uncomfortable. That's how you know it's good.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,587
    Voters may not like being taken for fools but I'm afraid that is what Trump voters are. Anybody with a brain cell could see he was likely to be a disaster.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,649

    Important question: have the penguins decided whether they're going to enact retaliatory tariffs?

    It was necessary to put tariffs on the penguins to stop them acting as a middleman for other countries.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,587
    FF43 said:

    Question. Did anyone predict negative 2025 US growth in the competition? I'm on 1.8%

    I think I did 0.75.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,254
    Scott_xP said:

    Republicans are frightened of speaking out against Trump in case they get primaried by Musk.

    Wisconsin has show that to be an empty threat.

    At what point do they discover their spine?

    There's 19 months until the mid-terms which is the only imminent election of any moment. You'd have to be fucking stupid to put your head above the parapet at this stage. The pioneers get the arrows, the settlers get the land, etc.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,490
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Bibi is due at The Whitehouse today IIRC

    Israel already has zero tariffs for US goods but was hit last week

    It will be interesting to see what 'deal' if any emerges today

    Annexation of Gaza by Israel.
    No,Trump wants it for an Eastern Mediterranean playground.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,177
    kinabalu said:

    FF43 said:

    Question. Did anyone predict negative 2025 US growth in the competition? I'm on 1.8%

    I think I did 0.75.
    75% of it's former size ?

    Sounds about right.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,367
    AnneJGP said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Interesting. To my mind it was the sort of ad a party puts out when they're scared and have nothing else.

    Good morning, everyone.
    I can't see that. What fear would a very badly executed and ineffective ad help with?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,348
    kinabalu said:

    FF43 said:

    Question. Did anyone predict negative 2025 US growth in the competition? I'm on 1.8%

    I think I did 0.75.
    I had +0.8%
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,979
    edited April 7
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Republicans are frightened of speaking out against Trump in case they get primaried by Musk.

    Wisconsin has show that to be an empty threat.

    At what point do they discover their spine?

    There's 19 months until the mid-terms which is the only imminent election of any moment. You'd have to be fucking stupid to put your head above the parapet at this stage. The pioneers get the arrows, the settlers get the land, etc.
    As noted elsewhere "Who will bell the cat" is a Global problem at this point, but there is a choice to be made between being complicit in this fucking madness or trying to distance yourself from it, surely. The electoral math (sic) can't all point the same way in these unprecedented times

    EDIT: There's 19 months until the mid-terms. I don't think there is 19 months till the riots
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,359

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Bibi is due at The Whitehouse today IIRC

    Israel already has zero tariffs for US goods but was hit last week

    It will be interesting to see what 'deal' if any emerges today

    Annexation of Gaza by Israel.
    No,Trump wants it for an Eastern Mediterranean playground.
    Which he’d get with Israel doing the spade work to get rid of the Palestinians.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,057

    scampi25 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FTSE now down 4.5% Dax 7% - less bad than Asia - maybe stabilising. Could be worse....

    It will be! Another 10-15% to come in my mind.
    Not sure. Got to be people with cash looking at the cheap prices ..
    Market crashes overshoot and then bounce back fairly quickly. My best guess would be the Dow bottoms out around 30-33k and ends the year around 40k. Buying now for long term is not terrible imo, but is really bad if any chance of getting spooked and selling in next few weeks.
    Trump will surely change course well before the DOW gets down to 30,000. Although the US was arguably due a correction anyway, making one your own fault isn't smart for any politician.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,966
    Roger said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Interesting. To my mind it was the sort of ad a party puts out when they're scared and have nothing else.

    Good morning, everyone.
    I can't see that. What fear would a very badly executed and ineffective ad help with?
    Have you not encountered what happens when people at the top of an organisation panic? Executing stupid ideas is the first thing they do, very often.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,100
    Scott_xP said:

    Omnium said:

    It'll all be over by Xmas.

    America?
    Democracy
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,436

    Important question: have the penguins decided whether they're going to enact retaliatory tariffs?

    Talking of adverts, I now have the "P-pick up a penguin" jingle stuck in my head.

    I'm blaming you.
    Just one Cornetto....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,545

    Important question: have the penguins decided whether they're going to enact retaliatory tariffs?

    Talking of adverts, I now have the "P-pick up a penguin" jingle stuck in my head.

    I'm blaming you.
    The only way out of the loop is to replace one ear worm with another. "A finger of fudge..."
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,679

    Important question: have the penguins decided whether they're going to enact retaliatory tariffs?

    They have to agree a course of action with the seals on the island and we're thinking about it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,329
    kinabalu said:

    Voters may not like being taken for fools but I'm afraid that is what Trump voters are. Anybody with a brain cell could see he was likely to be a disaster.

    They like still less being shown to be fools.
    Really am off now.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,028
    FF43 said:

    Question. Did anyone predict negative 2025 US growth in the competition? I'm on 1.8%

    I went for -1%

    I think I am the only one on contraction.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,048
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    If Len Deighton had written a novel about a Soviet asset who was elected President of the USA and subsequently crashed the West to allow a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, no one would have read such ridiculous nonsense.

    Everyone would have stopped reading at the point where a former stock broker from Dulwich assisted by an old Etonian Foreign Secretary who dresses like a clown and attends KGB run parties in Italy, engineers Britain out of the World 's largest friction free trade organisation.

    A coup is taking place in the USA. Is a counter-coup out of the question?
    President Vance might be worse.
    That's an interesting question

    Although Vance is arguably more dangerous than Trump, he has none of the personal support

    Truss was more dangerous than BoZo, but the Tories had no qualms about ditching her compared to him

    I think if trump falls, the GOP try and claim a return to sanity which they won't let Vance mess up
    Vance is part of the regime, and has (publicly at least) been in lock-step with Trump over the tariffs. The poison us on his hands, too.
    There are quite a few true believers like that in the administration.
    I don't think this resolves itself quickly.
    I don't think Vance is a true believer.
    But he's very canny and he wants to be President.
    So he is cynically out Trumping Trump to keep Trump's goodwill.

    I suspect that his preferred route to the Presidency is to win in 2028 with Trump's endorsement, which he hasn't yet got.

    But if it looks as if the GOP is wrecked by Trump and will lose in 2028, Vance will have to move to Plan B, 25th Amendment, and an "Adult in Charge" campaign running up to Nov 2028.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,970
    'The NHS can't tell me where my job will be'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c045l5r467ko

    We've talked about this before. The NHS cannot tell (some) junior doctors where their next training post will be, so the doctors can't plan their moves in advance.

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is the new NHS job-planning system which, well:-

    Previously, students were ranked and jobs were allocated based on merit, but this was changed for fear it was stressful for students and particularly unfair on those from deprived backgrounds and ethnic minorities.

    They tended to perform less well, and therefore were more likely to be posted to regions they did not favour, according to the UK Foundation Programme.

    Instead, jobs are assigned randomly, which means a higher proportion of students are not getting what they asked for.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c045l5r467ko

    The old system was unfair to some doctors, so they've replaced it with a new system that is unfair to lots more doctors but if it's unfair to everyone then that's fair!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,357

    HYUFD said:

    If Len Deighton had written a novel about a Soviet asset who was elected President of the USA and subsequently crashed the West to allow a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, no one would have read such ridiculous nonsense.

    Everyone would have stopped reading at the point where a former stock broker from Dulwich assisted by an old Etonian Foreign Secretary who dresses like a clown and attends KGB run parties in Italy, engineers Britain out of the World 's largest friction free trade organisation.

    While Putin may want to rebuild the USSR even he has said he does not want to invade Western Europe
    Oh well, that’s fine then: serial liar and megalomaniac autocrat says he has no intention of extending his control to Western Europe. Relax everyone!
    If he really doesn't want to invade it, he will presumably be fairly relaxed about nuking it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,966

    'The NHS can't tell me where my job will be'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c045l5r467ko

    We've talked about this before. The NHS cannot tell (some) junior doctors where their next training post will be, so the doctors can't plan their moves in advance.

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is the new NHS job-planning system which, well:-

    Previously, students were ranked and jobs were allocated based on merit, but this was changed for fear it was stressful for students and particularly unfair on those from deprived backgrounds and ethnic minorities.

    They tended to perform less well, and therefore were more likely to be posted to regions they did not favour, according to the UK Foundation Programme.

    Instead, jobs are assigned randomly, which means a higher proportion of students are not getting what they asked for.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c045l5r467ko

    The old system was unfair to some doctors, so they've replaced it with a new system that is unfair to lots more doctors but if it's unfair to everyone then that's fair!

    I recall accounts of married doctors being told that their postings were at opposite ends of the country.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,896
    One thing is for sure. Somebody will be making a killing.
    Would be surprised if many don't have the name Trump.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,436
    Just realised Trump's put more tariffs on penguins than Putin.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,522

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    They had an economy that had record employment, inflation coming down to target, a rapidly increasing number of new industrial jobs and benefitting from more infrastructure spending than had been seen in decades.

    There was a lot wrong too, a large trade deficit, a significant, if declining, fiscal deficit and very little improvement in the standard of living for many Americans. But compared with what they have now, it was nirvana.
    Doesnt that rather depend on who you are ?

    The people at the top had it great, those at the bottom less so.
    Hence the reference to "very little improvement in the standard of living for many Americans". But Biden's CHIP Act and other policies to encourage internal production, whilst probably breaching the now defunct WTO rules, were putting the US back towards a viable path, certainly more viable than a step off a cliff.
    Biden was taking the US to bankruptcy a step at a time. Trump may be doing the same with a great leap, but alternatively if he stops the rot he'll have earned his keep.

    Too early to say how this works out.
    Given a few Trump supporters here are oddly silent about their hero in recent days, it’s nice to see someone standing by his economic strategy.

    Sorry, did I say “nice”? I meant, “bonkers”.

    Trump is not stopping the rot. He has no understanding of how anything works. He has wrecked the world economy. He is ignoring the rule of law at home. He is going to make Americans, and us, poorer.
    You dont know what the outcome will be any more than I do.

    You just jump on the usual Trump bandwagon and scream like a banshee.

    In fact in Trump 1.0 he called several things right. Europeans not carrying their fair share of defence, over dependency of Russian energy, China.

    In Trump 2.0 it will be the same he will get some things right and some things wrong. Some of them like tariffs will impact the UK, but the UKs problems fundamentally can only be solved by the UK and Trump is just a distraction.
    I can see what the outcome is so far. I can see that Trump doesn't understand what a trade deficit is, or how a tariff works. If you want to keep your eyes shut, that's your problem.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,490
    I don't think Trump and his family are big stock-holders. I thought they worked on long-term loans, so the stock market doesn't mean all that much to them. What would affect them is if interest rates started to rise significantly.
    I still have nightmares about British interest rates in the 80's when I'd managed to get myself some significant debt.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,616
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Thanks Roger.

    It might actually have worked with Trump/Farage, but I guess it's in the round filing basket now, where it belongs.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214
    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    If Len Deighton had written a novel about a Soviet asset who was elected President of the USA and subsequently crashed the West to allow a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, no one would have read such ridiculous nonsense.

    Everyone would have stopped reading at the point where a former stock broker from Dulwich assisted by an old Etonian Foreign Secretary who dresses like a clown and attends KGB run parties in Italy, engineers Britain out of the World 's largest friction free trade organisation.

    A coup is taking place in the USA. Is a counter-coup out of the question?
    President Vance might be worse.
    That's an interesting question

    Although Vance is arguably more dangerous than Trump, he has none of the personal support

    Truss was more dangerous than BoZo, but the Tories had no qualms about ditching her compared to him

    I think if trump falls, the GOP try and claim a return to sanity which they won't let Vance mess up
    Vance is part of the regime, and has (publicly at least) been in lock-step with Trump over the tariffs. The poison us on his hands, too.
    There are quite a few true believers like that in the administration.
    I don't think this resolves itself quickly.
    I don't think Vance is a true believer.
    But he's very canny and he wants to be President.
    So he is cynically out Trumping Trump to keep Trump's goodwill.

    I suspect that his preferred route to the Presidency is to win in 2028 with Trump's endorsement, which he hasn't yet got.

    But if it looks as if the GOP is wrecked by Trump and will lose in 2028, Vance will have to move to Plan B, 25th Amendment, and an "Adult in Charge" campaign running up to Nov 2028.
    Not to mention that Trump is 79 in a couple of months and the VP is a heartbeat from the presidency.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,223
    edited April 7
    Looks like Elon is off the Trump train, he has just posted a video from Milton Friedman explaining the power of free trade to make pencils as an example of how free trade is the best for everybody.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,100

    If Len Deighton had written a novel about a Soviet asset who was elected President of the USA and subsequently crashed the West to allow a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, no one would have read such ridiculous nonsense.

    Everyone would have stopped reading at the point where a former stock broker from Dulwich assisted by an old Etonian Foreign Secretary who dresses like a clown and attends KGB run parties in Italy, engineers Britain out of the World 's largest friction free trade organisation.

    Where on earth is 007?
    Sold to Amazon, so guess which side he'll be on...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,348
    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    If Len Deighton had written a novel about a Soviet asset who was elected President of the USA and subsequently crashed the West to allow a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, no one would have read such ridiculous nonsense.

    Everyone would have stopped reading at the point where a former stock broker from Dulwich assisted by an old Etonian Foreign Secretary who dresses like a clown and attends KGB run parties in Italy, engineers Britain out of the World 's largest friction free trade organisation.

    A coup is taking place in the USA. Is a counter-coup out of the question?
    President Vance might be worse.
    That's an interesting question

    Although Vance is arguably more dangerous than Trump, he has none of the personal support

    Truss was more dangerous than BoZo, but the Tories had no qualms about ditching her compared to him

    I think if trump falls, the GOP try and claim a return to sanity which they won't let Vance mess up
    Vance is part of the regime, and has (publicly at least) been in lock-step with Trump over the tariffs. The poison us on his hands, too.
    There are quite a few true believers like that in the administration.
    I don't think this resolves itself quickly.
    I don't think Vance is a true believer.
    But he's very canny and he wants to be President.
    So he is cynically out Trumping Trump to keep Trump's goodwill.

    I suspect that his preferred route to the Presidency is to win in 2028 with Trump's endorsement, which he hasn't yet got.

    But if it looks as if the GOP is wrecked by Trump and will lose in 2028, Vance will have to move to Plan B, 25th Amendment, and an "Adult in Charge" campaign running up to Nov 2028.
    He can't do 25th as it requires Cabinet to support it and no way Trump's handpicked ultra loyalists are gonna do that.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,193

    Important question: have the penguins decided whether they're going to enact retaliatory tariffs?

    Talking of adverts, I now have the "P-pick up a penguin" jingle stuck in my head.

    I'm blaming you.
    Taliking further of adverts, a mildly amusing way to spend 10 minutes of one's aimless life.

    https://x.com/manishkumar_dev/status/1908752157958152594
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,193

    Just realised Trump's put more tariffs on penguins than Putin.

    Initially read that as 'more tariffs on penguins than Puffins'.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,169
    sarissa said:

    If Len Deighton had written a novel about a Soviet asset who was elected President of the USA and subsequently crashed the West to allow a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, no one would have read such ridiculous nonsense.

    Everyone would have stopped reading at the point where a former stock broker from Dulwich assisted by an old Etonian Foreign Secretary who dresses like a clown and attends KGB run parties in Italy, engineers Britain out of the World 's largest friction free trade organisation.

    Where on earth is 007?
    Sold to Amazon, so guess which side he'll be on...
    Have faith, M has placed him deep undercover.....
  • vikvik Posts: 226
    edited April 7
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    If Len Deighton had written a novel about a Soviet asset who was elected President of the USA and subsequently crashed the West to allow a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, no one would have read such ridiculous nonsense.

    Everyone would have stopped reading at the point where a former stock broker from Dulwich assisted by an old Etonian Foreign Secretary who dresses like a clown and attends KGB run parties in Italy, engineers Britain out of the World 's largest friction free trade organisation.

    A coup is taking place in the USA. Is a counter-coup out of the question?
    President Vance might be worse.
    That's an interesting question

    Although Vance is arguably more dangerous than Trump, he has none of the personal support

    Truss was more dangerous than BoZo, but the Tories had no qualms about ditching her compared to him

    I think if trump falls, the GOP try and claim a return to sanity which they won't let Vance mess up
    Vance is part of the regime, and has (publicly at least) been in lock-step with Trump over the tariffs. The poison us on his hands, too.
    There are quite a few true believers like that in the administration.
    I don't think this resolves itself quickly.
    There are only two ways it can be resolved:

    1) The Senate & the House find a backbone & take away Trump's power to set tariffs.

    OR

    2) The courts step in & issue an injunction blocking the tariffs.

    (A conservative group funded by Charles Koch is suing Trump over the tariffs. The fact that the plaintiffs are conservatives leads me to think that they must have pretty solid legal grounds for suing. Also, when the case reaches the Supreme Court, there is a high likelihood that at least Thomas & possibly also Alito might rule in favour, if Charles Koch is one of the parties to the dispute.)
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,357

    Important question: have the penguins decided whether they're going to enact retaliatory tariffs?

    Just realised that the Trump people meant to put their tariff on Penguin bars.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,177

    Looks like Elon is off the Trump train, he has just posted a video from Milton Friedman explaining the power of free trade to make pencils as an example of how free trade is the best for everybody.

    I noted this too
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,490
    edited April 7

    Just realised Trump's put more tariffs on penguins than Putin.

    Initially read that as 'more tariffs on penguins than Puffins'.
    What are the tariffs on Iceland, the Faroes and Svalbard?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,169
    IanB2 said:

    scampi25 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FTSE now down 4.5% Dax 7% - less bad than Asia - maybe stabilising. Could be worse....

    It will be! Another 10-15% to come in my mind.
    Not sure. Got to be people with cash looking at the cheap prices ..
    Market crashes overshoot and then bounce back fairly quickly. My best guess would be the Dow bottoms out around 30-33k and ends the year around 40k. Buying now for long term is not terrible imo, but is really bad if any chance of getting spooked and selling in next few weeks.
    Trump will surely change course well before the DOW gets down to 30,000. Although the US was arguably due a correction anyway, making one your own fault isn't smart for any politician.
    What does Trump changing course look like?

    Not increasing China tariffs to 76% perhaps? He can't just row them back completely and quickly.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,979
    Surpised William hasn't posted this

    @Bubblebathgirl

    “If tariffs don’t work, then why are we being tariffed by all these other countries?”

    https://x.com/Bubblebathgirl/status/1908354800078438525
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,223
    edited April 7
    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like Elon is off the Trump train, he has just posted a video from Milton Friedman explaining the power of free trade to make pencils as an example of how free trade is the best for everybody.

    I noted this too
    Can't be long until....Elon, i never like him, tiny man, everybody calls him Elon the idiot, playing with his little toy rockets....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,177

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like Elon is off the Trump train, he has just posted a video from Milton Friedman explaining the power of free trade to make pencils as an example of how free trade is the best for everybody.

    I noted this too
    Can't be long until....Elon, i never like him, tiny man, everybody calls him Elon the idiot, playing with his little toy rockets....
    Elon probably praying to be dumped now tbh.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,616
    Pulpstar said:

    Quite a few of the people I follow on X starting to doubt Trump's plan. I'd say they're all reasonably MAGA till now.

    Pulpy, you have been a distinguished poster on this Site for many years, and although your brand may not be one that I personally subscribe too it is nevertheless respected and honest.

    Are you really going to trash it now by admitting you follow people on X?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,357
    Roger said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Interesting. To my mind it was the sort of ad a party puts out when they're scared and have nothing else.

    Good morning, everyone.
    I can't see that. What fear would a very badly executed and ineffective ad help with?
    Well, I can't see what Labour have to fear from either party at the moment, but when I saw the image it resurrected in my mind a reported remark from long ago that went something like Absolutely bloody brilliant which heralded a disaster of PR, if I recall correctly. Maybe my memory is at fault.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,477

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like Elon is off the Trump train, he has just posted a video from Milton Friedman explaining the power of free trade to make pencils as an example of how free trade is the best for everybody.

    I noted this too
    Can't be long until....Elon, i never like him, tiny man, everybody calls him Elon the idiot, playing with his little toy rockets....
    The ultimate irony would be if Musk gets arrested for bribing voters.

    Presidential pardon for $100bn.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,048

    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    If Len Deighton had written a novel about a Soviet asset who was elected President of the USA and subsequently crashed the West to allow a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, no one would have read such ridiculous nonsense.

    Everyone would have stopped reading at the point where a former stock broker from Dulwich assisted by an old Etonian Foreign Secretary who dresses like a clown and attends KGB run parties in Italy, engineers Britain out of the World 's largest friction free trade organisation.

    A coup is taking place in the USA. Is a counter-coup out of the question?
    President Vance might be worse.
    That's an interesting question

    Although Vance is arguably more dangerous than Trump, he has none of the personal support

    Truss was more dangerous than BoZo, but the Tories had no qualms about ditching her compared to him

    I think if trump falls, the GOP try and claim a return to sanity which they won't let Vance mess up
    Vance is part of the regime, and has (publicly at least) been in lock-step with Trump over the tariffs. The poison us on his hands, too.
    There are quite a few true believers like that in the administration.
    I don't think this resolves itself quickly.
    I don't think Vance is a true believer.
    But he's very canny and he wants to be President.
    So he is cynically out Trumping Trump to keep Trump's goodwill.

    I suspect that his preferred route to the Presidency is to win in 2028 with Trump's endorsement, which he hasn't yet got.

    But if it looks as if the GOP is wrecked by Trump and will lose in 2028, Vance will have to move to Plan B, 25th Amendment, and an "Adult in Charge" campaign running up to Nov 2028.
    Not to mention that Trump is 79 in a couple of months and the VP is a heartbeat from the presidency.
    That's the desperate Plan C. Shock and enrage Trump with a very public display of disloyalty (Vance starts 25th Amendment process) that Trump has a heart attack/stroke and dies or is disabled.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,198

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Thanks Roger.

    It might actually have worked with Trump/Farage, but I guess it's in the round filing basket now, where it belongs.
    It’s still on their Twitter feed



    If the Tories or Reform mocked up a photo of a black, female lefty with a straight white man there would be calls for resignations of party leaders, and much ‘pearl clutching’ as @stuartinromford says. Two-tier moral stances to add to the rest of the double standards
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,490
    Trying to log into my Fidelity account without success!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,979

    Trying to log into my Fidelity account without success!

    It's for the best...
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,523

    Important question: have the penguins decided whether they're going to enact retaliatory tariffs?

    Yes. They are refusing to import Oreo cookies.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,048

    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    If Len Deighton had written a novel about a Soviet asset who was elected President of the USA and subsequently crashed the West to allow a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, no one would have read such ridiculous nonsense.

    Everyone would have stopped reading at the point where a former stock broker from Dulwich assisted by an old Etonian Foreign Secretary who dresses like a clown and attends KGB run parties in Italy, engineers Britain out of the World 's largest friction free trade organisation.

    A coup is taking place in the USA. Is a counter-coup out of the question?
    President Vance might be worse.
    That's an interesting question

    Although Vance is arguably more dangerous than Trump, he has none of the personal support

    Truss was more dangerous than BoZo, but the Tories had no qualms about ditching her compared to him

    I think if trump falls, the GOP try and claim a return to sanity which they won't let Vance mess up
    Vance is part of the regime, and has (publicly at least) been in lock-step with Trump over the tariffs. The poison us on his hands, too.
    There are quite a few true believers like that in the administration.
    I don't think this resolves itself quickly.
    I don't think Vance is a true believer.
    But he's very canny and he wants to be President.
    So he is cynically out Trumping Trump to keep Trump's goodwill.

    I suspect that his preferred route to the Presidency is to win in 2028 with Trump's endorsement, which he hasn't yet got.

    But if it looks as if the GOP is wrecked by Trump and will lose in 2028, Vance will have to move to Plan B, 25th Amendment, and an "Adult in Charge" campaign running up to Nov 2028.
    He can't do 25th as it requires Cabinet to support it and no way Trump's handpicked ultra loyalists are gonna do that.
    Plan C it is then. Hmm
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,296
    Nobody in the GOP has a spine and the US provides much greater security of tenure to its leaders than the UK system, so all those hoping there’ll be some kind of men in grey suits forcing him out a la Truss is I fear being somewhat optimistic.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,522


    ... and who can blame them?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,490
    isam said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Thanks Roger.

    It might actually have worked with Trump/Farage, but I guess it's in the round filing basket now, where it belongs.
    It’s still on their Twitter feed



    If the Tories or Reform mocked up a photo of a black, female lefty with a straight white man there would be calls for resignations of party leaders, and much ‘pearl clutching’ as @stuartinromford says. Two-tier moral stances to add to the rest of the double standards
    I suspect @Roger is right. Done in-house, probably in a hurry by someone who was told to do 'something ..... anything' but has never really thought about advertising before.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,523

    I don't think Trump and his family are big stock-holders. I thought they worked on long-term loans, so the stock market doesn't mean all that much to them. What would affect them is if interest rates started to rise significantly.
    I still have nightmares about British interest rates in the 80's when I'd managed to get myself some significant debt.

    I remember that. We had just moved to a bigger house when the mortgage rate increased to 15%. We were involuntary vegetarians.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,616
    HYUFD said:

    If Len Deighton had written a novel about a Soviet asset who was elected President of the USA and subsequently crashed the West to allow a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, no one would have read such ridiculous nonsense.

    Everyone would have stopped reading at the point where a former stock broker from Dulwich assisted by an old Etonian Foreign Secretary who dresses like a clown and attends KGB run parties in Italy, engineers Britain out of the World 's largest friction free trade organisation.

    While Putin may want to rebuild the USSR even he has said he does not want to invade Western Europe
    You believe him?

    Maybe he doesn't need to if he can get Special Agent Donald to do it for him.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,979
    @thehistoryguy.bsky.social‬

    The fossil fuel lobby paid to get utterly rinsed.

    Oil men would be inconceivably richer if they had skipped the election, chilled out, enjoyed nice sunsets, and learned about a Harris win in an old Economist left in the departures lounge of a private airport on the way back from a heliski trip

    https://bsky.app/profile/thehistoryguy.bsky.social/post/3lm7n4ljtz22k
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,216

    Looks like Elon is off the Trump train, he has just posted a video from Milton Friedman explaining the power of free trade to make pencils as an example of how free trade is the best for everybody.

    Sorry, Elon, you're too late. You're associated with it now.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,899

    Looks like Elon is off the Trump train, he has just posted a video from Milton Friedman explaining the power of free trade to make pencils as an example of how free trade is the best for everybody.

    Has he only just realised that?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,587
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like Elon is off the Trump train, he has just posted a video from Milton Friedman explaining the power of free trade to make pencils as an example of how free trade is the best for everybody.

    I noted this too
    Can't be long until....Elon, i never like him, tiny man, everybody calls him Elon the idiot, playing with his little toy rockets....
    Elon probably praying to be dumped now tbh.
    Bit late for him to have a rethink. It's like with those German magnates who thought they could control Hitler.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,902
    edited April 7
    AnneJGP said:

    Important question: have the penguins decided whether they're going to enact retaliatory tariffs?

    Just realised that the Trump people meant to put their tariff on Penguin bars.
    I know penguins are cool, but do they hang around in bars?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,979

    Looks like Elon is off the Trump train, he has just posted a video from Milton Friedman explaining the power of free trade to make pencils as an example of how free trade is the best for everybody.

    I wonder what is was about losing eleventy billion dollars over the weekend that first attracted him to free trade...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,169
    algarkirk said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Important question: have the penguins decided whether they're going to enact retaliatory tariffs?

    Just realised that the Trump people meant to put their tariff on Penguin bars.
    I know penguins are cool, but do they hang around in bars?
    Mostly p-p-p-pick up bars.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,169

    Donald vs. Devon: lady in the local garage as I was paying for fuel.

    "Oh - I'm not sure we should be buying American Coca Cola now should we?"

    She put it back.

    Swapped it for Pepsi? Or Sprite?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,649
    Scott_xP said:

    @thehistoryguy.bsky.social‬

    The fossil fuel lobby paid to get utterly rinsed.

    Oil men would be inconceivably richer if they had skipped the election, chilled out, enjoyed nice sunsets, and learned about a Harris win in an old Economist left in the departures lounge of a private airport on the way back from a heliski trip

    https://bsky.app/profile/thehistoryguy.bsky.social/post/3lm7n4ljtz22k

    And who's the most famous fossil fuel salesman in Eurasia?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,490
    edited April 7

    Trying to log into my Fidelity account without success!

    Managed it. Down on last month..... I keep an eye on it monthly ..... but still up on 12 months ago.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,169

    isam said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Thanks Roger.

    It might actually have worked with Trump/Farage, but I guess it's in the round filing basket now, where it belongs.
    It’s still on their Twitter feed



    If the Tories or Reform mocked up a photo of a black, female lefty with a straight white man there would be calls for resignations of party leaders, and much ‘pearl clutching’ as @stuartinromford says. Two-tier moral stances to add to the rest of the double standards
    I suspect @Roger is right. Done in-house, probably in a hurry by someone who was told to do 'something ..... anything' but has never really thought about advertising before.
    Ever watched the Apprentice? As bad as that is, it is far more polished than a total newbies work.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,771
    edited April 7

    HYUFD said:

    If Len Deighton had written a novel about a Soviet asset who was elected President of the USA and subsequently crashed the West to allow a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, no one would have read such ridiculous nonsense.

    Everyone would have stopped reading at the point where a former stock broker from Dulwich assisted by an old Etonian Foreign Secretary who dresses like a clown and attends KGB run parties in Italy, engineers Britain out of the World 's largest friction free trade organisation.

    While Putin may want to rebuild the USSR even he has said he does not want to invade Western Europe
    You believe him?

    Maybe he doesn't need to if he can get Special Agent Donald to do it for him.
    He won't, for starters as France and the UK have nuclear weapons and if he invaded a NATO nation it would be WW3 even if the US stayed neutral
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,545

    Donald vs. Devon: lady in the local garage as I was paying for fuel.

    "Oh - I'm not sure we should be buying American Coca Cola now should we?"

    She put it back.

    Swapped it for Pepsi? Or Sprite?
    Mountain Dew
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,771
    isam said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Thanks Roger.

    It might actually have worked with Trump/Farage, but I guess it's in the round filing basket now, where it belongs.
    It’s still on their Twitter feed



    If the Tories or Reform mocked up a photo of a black, female lefty with a straight white man there would be calls for resignations of party leaders, and much ‘pearl clutching’ as @stuartinromford says. Two-tier moral stances to add to the rest of the double standards
    Current EC forecast for May 1st local elections is for Labour to come 4th in terms of councillors won, behind the Tories and Reform (and LDs) which would be little more than they deserve after that poster and their recent policies

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_lepoll_20250314.html
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,057

    IanB2 said:

    scampi25 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FTSE now down 4.5% Dax 7% - less bad than Asia - maybe stabilising. Could be worse....

    It will be! Another 10-15% to come in my mind.
    Not sure. Got to be people with cash looking at the cheap prices ..
    Market crashes overshoot and then bounce back fairly quickly. My best guess would be the Dow bottoms out around 30-33k and ends the year around 40k. Buying now for long term is not terrible imo, but is really bad if any chance of getting spooked and selling in next few weeks.
    Trump will surely change course well before the DOW gets down to 30,000. Although the US was arguably due a correction anyway, making one your own fault isn't smart for any politician.
    What does Trump changing course look like?

    Not increasing China tariffs to 76% perhaps? He can't just row them back completely and quickly.
    He's done so once already.

    Congress is getting its act together to challenge his legal ability to act using emergency powers that were designed for a wartime situation.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,490
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like Elon is off the Trump train, he has just posted a video from Milton Friedman explaining the power of free trade to make pencils as an example of how free trade is the best for everybody.

    I noted this too
    Can't be long until....Elon, i never like him, tiny man, everybody calls him Elon the idiot, playing with his little toy rockets....
    Elon probably praying to be dumped now tbh.
    Bit late for him to have a rethink. It's like with those German magnates who thought they could control Hitler.
    I was reading somewhere that during WWI when the Germans retreated from a trench they left someone with a machine-gun to fire at the Allied troops when they came into the trench.
    He had limited ammunition and was expected to surrender when it ran out.
    Unfortunately for him the general response to his surrender was "too late, mate." Bang!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,296
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    scampi25 said:

    scampi25 said:

    FTSE now down 4.5% Dax 7% - less bad than Asia - maybe stabilising. Could be worse....

    It will be! Another 10-15% to come in my mind.
    Not sure. Got to be people with cash looking at the cheap prices ..
    Market crashes overshoot and then bounce back fairly quickly. My best guess would be the Dow bottoms out around 30-33k and ends the year around 40k. Buying now for long term is not terrible imo, but is really bad if any chance of getting spooked and selling in next few weeks.
    Trump will surely change course well before the DOW gets down to 30,000. Although the US was arguably due a correction anyway, making one your own fault isn't smart for any politician.
    What does Trump changing course look like?

    Not increasing China tariffs to 76% perhaps? He can't just row them back completely and quickly.
    He's done so once already.

    Congress is getting its act together to challenge his legal ability to act using emergency powers that were designed for a wartime situation.
    The Senate appear to be, tentatively, growing some balls, but it will mean nothing if the House Speaker continues to block anything.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,490

    isam said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Miller: We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1908230980600791055

    There comes a point when even low information voters who take their cue from social media will look at their own bank accounts and say "WTF???"
    "Low information voters".....Is that the polite way of referring to Faragists?
    It's an impolite way, but accurate.

    Roger, I was interested in your views on that awful Labour ad featuring Kemi and, I think, Farage. Has it been pulled?
    I don't know but I don't believe it was genuine. No Ad agency would produce something that couldn't work. Even the most junior trainee put down artist would have spotted the problem. It's possible they did it in-house and if so it'll teach them a useful lesson.
    Thanks Roger.

    It might actually have worked with Trump/Farage, but I guess it's in the round filing basket now, where it belongs.
    It’s still on their Twitter feed



    If the Tories or Reform mocked up a photo of a black, female lefty with a straight white man there would be calls for resignations of party leaders, and much ‘pearl clutching’ as @stuartinromford says. Two-tier moral stances to add to the rest of the double standards
    I suspect @Roger is right. Done in-house, probably in a hurry by someone who was told to do 'something ..... anything' but has never really thought about advertising before.
    Ever watched the Apprentice? As bad as that is, it is far more polished than a total newbies work.
    Yes, I've watched Apprentice, and while you may be right, I wonder if the designer was an Apprentice candidate.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,368

    Donald vs. Devon: lady in the local garage as I was paying for fuel.

    "Oh - I'm not sure we should be buying American Coca Cola now should we?"

    She put it back.

    Swapped it for Pepsi? Or Sprite?
    Play safe: Irn Bru...
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