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Environmentalism, feminism, liberalism, and socialism are the favourite ideologies of Brits

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  • It's still available now, to watch live..
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,783
    Perhaps Skir could offer the wealthy Syrian asylum. His loot would fill several black holes that the govt has uncovered since assuming office. And wouldn't Ed approve, having saved his bacon back in 2013?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,624
    edited December 2024


    ‪Sunder Katwala (sundersays)‬ ‪@sundersays.bsky.social‬
    ·
    15m
    Elon Musk following the local elections now ...

    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3lcy6eh7lns2b


    My own guess is most of this from Musk is he was seriously pissed at not being invited to Labour's invest in britain conference the other month. So he's determined to get Starmer.

    The problem with that argument is that he has no project / company looking to invest abroad at the moment - so he would be vetoed on the grounds of no money to invest...

    As I side note - it seems that the tesla plan to create solar panel tiles has discovered that shifting assembly on site (i.e. wiring every small tile to the next one) is as inefficient as you might imagine.

    The future of houses will be fixed sizes where the roof is 99% or more solar panels.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,706

    Evening PB'ers.

    According to Senator Chris Smith at the congressional hearing just now, 12-30 drones recently followed a coastguard boat, and 50 were seen by them coming in from the ocean.

    Did they get any good photos or videos? Maybe they left their mobile phones behind?
    I doubt they would be allowed to provide their own mobile footage.
    At the same hearing, the FBI have said it's "concerning" and that they can't explain it all as yet.
    Ah, the good stuff is being suppressed again. Ok.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,999
    eek said:

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    A skilled job should be paid the market rate, gender has nothing to do with it.

    If a "similar" job has higher pay, why don't people apply for that job? Maybe its skills are rarer, and thus more valuable, if they're not doing so?

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    My solution is to use technology to reduce the number of workers required *and* pay them more *and* increase productivity.

    But that’s crazy talk, I suppose.
    Sometimes technology slows things down. Refuse collectors could complete an average street of black bag waste in the time it takes to load twenty wheelie bins. The men like it too. On " job and knock"* they are back home for elevensies.

    * I'm trolling, task and finish is all but dead.
    Oh I doubt you could finish collections by 11 - if they could someone very senior had screwed up.

    In our council we have 2 teams running a 4 day week but we are also a very small council and I'm sure the movement from bags to bins resulted in some people losing their jobs and others having expanded days.

    It does mean that outside of Christmas we have standard collections on our usual day of the week.
    About 20 years ago I was assessing bin men in North Devon Council in Torridge. They were in at six and back in the depot at 9.30. It was a bit of a bugger for me with a three hour journey to assess them. At the same time I was doing the same work for Cleanaway in Solihull. Solihull Council had a back door collection so the bin men would be out on their round from around 2.30. By the time the trucks were out of the depot at 6.30 the black bags had been bulked up at the end of each road so he bin lorry only had to make about 5% of its anticipated stops. They were back in the depot by 10.30 but then they had been grafting for 8 hours. Some had second jobs, or cared for their pre school children whilst their wives went out to work.
  • Evening PB'ers.

    According to Senator Chris Smith at the congressional hearing just now, 12-30 drones recently followed a coastguard boat, and 50 were seen by them coming in from the ocean.

    Did they get any good photos or videos? Maybe they left their mobile phones behind?
    I doubt they would be allowed to provide their own mobile footage.
    At the same hearing, the FBI have said it's "concerning" and that they can't explain it all as yet.
    Ah, the good stuff is being suppressed again. Ok.
    Caricatures don't help. As is obvious, police, coastguards, etc are hardly frele to release their own footage to the public.

    We'll just have to see how it all plays out.
  • Apologies ; "Free", that should ofcourse say, there.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,999
    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
  • Evening PB'ers.

    According to Senator Chris Smith at the congressional hearing just now, 12-30 drones recently followed a coastguard boat, and 50 were seen by them coming in from the ocean.

    Did they get any good photos or videos? Maybe they left their mobile phones behind?
    I doubt they would be allowed to provide their own mobile footage.
    At the same hearing, the FBI have said it's "concerning" and that they can't explain it all as yet.
    Ah, the good stuff is being suppressed again. Ok.
    Caricatures don't help. As is obvious, police, coastguards, etc are hardly frele to release their own footage to the public.

    We'll just have to see how it all plays out.
    There's nothing to play out.

    If there was, there'd be some evidence, rather than this he said, she said, bullshit.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,972

    Evening PB'ers.

    According to Senator Chris Smith at the congressional hearing just now, 12-30 drones recently followed a coastguard boat, and 50 were seen by them coming in from the ocean.

    Did they get any good photos or videos? Maybe they left their mobile phones behind?
    If they hadn't all the pictures and videos would have been surprisingly out of focus.
  • It's a huge relief that Anabob doesn't seem to be around tonight.
    If he were, we'd be well into 10,000 posts on where on earth Assad will be able to spend all his cash.


    B
    A
    S
    H
    A
    R
  • Evening PB'ers.

    According to Senator Chris Smith at the congressional hearing just now, 12-30 drones recently followed a coastguard boat, and 50 were seen by them coming in from the ocean.

    Did they get any good photos or videos? Maybe they left their mobile phones behind?
    I doubt they would be allowed to provide their own mobile footage.
    At the same hearing, the FBI have said it's "concerning" and that they can't explain it all as yet.
    Ah, the good stuff is being suppressed again. Ok.
    Caricatures don't help. As is obvious, police, coastguards, etc are hardly frele to release their own footage to the public.

    We'll just have to see how it all plays out.
    There's nothing to play out.

    If there was, there'd be some evidence, rather than this he said, she said, bullshit.
    By this logic, evidence is always already publicly available at the beginning of any investigation.

    That's not how things always work, which is why part of today's hearing was classified. As I mentioned yesterday, if there weren't four American government agencies working on it I might agree with you.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,345
    eek said:


    ‪Sunder Katwala (sundersays)‬ ‪@sundersays.bsky.social‬
    ·
    15m
    Elon Musk following the local elections now ...

    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3lcy6eh7lns2b


    My own guess is most of this from Musk is he was seriously pissed at not being invited to Labour's invest in britain conference the other month. So he's determined to get Starmer.

    The problem with that argument is that he has no project / company looking to invest abroad at the moment - so he would be vetoed on the grounds of no money to invest...

    As I side note - it seems that the tesla plan to create solar panel tiles has discovered that shifting assembly on site (i.e. wiring every small tile to the next one) is as inefficient as you might imagine.

    The future of houses will be fixed sizes where the roof is 99% or more solar panels.
    As with the other vendors of roof tile simulating solar panels (there are a number) the panels are actual blocks of “tiles” fixed together and pre-wired, in standardised units. The edges are then filled in to make a complete roof using individual tiles that are not solar cells, but match the ones that are.

    There’s a company offering a version of this for slate roofs, in the U.K., IIRC
  • Evening PB'ers.

    According to Senator Chris Smith at the congressional hearing just now, 12-30 drones recently followed a coastguard boat, and 50 were seen by them coming in from the ocean.

    Did they get any good photos or videos? Maybe they left their mobile phones behind?
    I doubt they would be allowed to provide their own mobile footage.
    At the same hearing, the FBI have said it's "concerning" and that they can't explain it all as yet.
    Ah, the good stuff is being suppressed again. Ok.
    Caricatures don't help. As is obvious, police, coastguards, etc are hardly frele to release their own footage to the public.

    We'll just have to see how it all plays out.
    There's nothing to play out.

    If there was, there'd be some evidence, rather than this he said, she said, bullshit.
    By this logic, evidence is always already publicly available at the beginning of any investigation.

    That's not how things always work, which is why part of today's hearing was classified. As I mentioned yesterday, if there weren't four American government agencies working on it I might agree with you.
    We aren't at the beginning of anything, muppets like you have been banging on about UFOs for a century or more.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,999
    geoffw said:

    Perhaps Skir could offer the wealthy Syrian asylum. His loot would fill several black holes that the govt has uncovered since assuming office. And wouldn't Ed approve, having saved his bacon back in 2013?

    Ed and bacon are a toxic cocktail.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    One people, one nation, one leader!
  • Evening PB'ers.

    According to Senator Chris Smith at the congressional hearing just now, 12-30 drones recently followed a coastguard boat, and 50 were seen by them coming in from the ocean.

    Did they get any good photos or videos? Maybe they left their mobile phones behind?
    I doubt they would be allowed to provide their own mobile footage.
    At the same hearing, the FBI have said it's "concerning" and that they can't explain it all as yet.
    Ah, the good stuff is being suppressed again. Ok.
    Caricatures don't help. As is obvious, police, coastguards, etc are hardly frele to release their own footage to the public.

    We'll just have to see how it all plays out.
    There's nothing to play out.

    If there was, there'd be some evidence, rather than this he said, she said, bullshit.
    By this logic, evidence is always already publicly available at the beginning of any investigation.

    That's not how things always work, which is why part of today's hearing was classified. As I mentioned yesterday, if there weren't four American government agencies working on it I might agree with you.
    We aren't at the beginning of anything, muppets like you have been banging on about UFOs for a century or more.
    Needless and juvenile abuse aside, it's as likely to be the Chinese as UAP's.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,305

    eek said:

    maxh said:

    ohnotnow said:

    eek said:

    Sadly someone has committed suicide on the ECML near Stevenage - I'm currently sat on the train hoping that the catering staff delivery another drink so I can commiserate the position where he (as it will be a him) thought it was the best idea, the poor driver who could do nothing about it and the cleaners who will have to clean up the miss...

    My brother-in-law was a train driver. And there would apparently be arguments amongst the drivers as to who got to drive the train past the psychiatric hospital as there was a chance "you'd get one" and then take a year off on full pay to 'recover'.

    He wasn't my favourite person.
    Are you sure he wasn't trolling you? That sounds like the kind of thing Leon would write on here when he's bored on a Friday night.
    He was definitely trolling - I know people who have had serious mental issues after dealing with the consequences of such an event.

    I'm also feeling sorry for anyone who was on the 18:10 from Kings Lynn who are currently sat at Stevenage station with their train taken out of service and that's nothing compared to the poor driver.

    Realtimetrains provides a LOT of information from which you can work out exactly what happened and when..
    Twenty years ago, my then best mate deliberately stepped out in front of a bus - he had severe mental health issues at the time. It was apparent at the inquest that the poor blameless bus driver was at least as traumatised as my mate's family and friends.
    The idea that the bus driver may have welcomed the opportunity to have time off to cope is ludicrous.
    As I've said before, an old friend of mine was an Signal and Telegraph engineer on the railway, and was part of a team called in to investigate/repair incidents on the eastern region (various things need to be checked before trains can run, especially after a road vehicle has been involved. It's not just the train that can be damaged. If it is at a crossing, they also need to check all the apparatus was working properly before the incident).

    He would tell stories of finding bits of human a fair distance down the track after a suicide. He had a certain amount of gallows humour about it, but that was just to hide the shock. He also said cleaners back at depots would find bits under the trains.

    You couldn't pay me enough to do that.
    Imagine wanting to top yourself by being splatted by a Deltic and then being bowled out when a Duff turned up.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402
    edited December 2024

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    The fall of Assad must have made Starmer nervous about what could happen here.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,706

    Evening PB'ers.

    According to Senator Chris Smith at the congressional hearing just now, 12-30 drones recently followed a coastguard boat, and 50 were seen by them coming in from the ocean.

    Did they get any good photos or videos? Maybe they left their mobile phones behind?
    I doubt they would be allowed to provide their own mobile footage.
    At the same hearing, the FBI have said it's "concerning" and that they can't explain it all as yet.
    Ah, the good stuff is being suppressed again. Ok.
    Caricatures don't help. As is obvious, police, coastguards, etc are hardly frele to release their own footage to the public.

    We'll just have to see how it all plays out.
    It’s just so reminiscent of other stories we’ve been hearing about, and in those cases we were always promised the really good stuff was there. It wasn’t. The best ones have been easily debunked.

    People are terrible witnesses. Absolutely terrible. I have no idea if these coastguard were seeing 12-30 drones, but it seem rather unlikely.

    Last night I had a chat with my neighbour, who was somewhat in his cups. We got onto the subject of ghosts. I don’t believe they exist. I’d rather they did. He firmly believes, thinks he’s seen a little girl in his kitchen on 3 or 4 occasions and hears knocking on a regular basis. I have never experienced anything I cannot rationally explain. He claims to have.

    I strongly suspect the events going on right now are a classic flap. A trigger happens, then people start seeing things all over. It will eventually fizzle out. There will be no drones recovered. Just like at Gatwick.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,624

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    The fall of Assad must have made Starmer nervous about what could happen here.
    Really - I don't think we've spent the last 15 years in a civil and proxy civil war....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,999
    Foxy said:

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    One people, one nation, one leader!
    I'm not sure such a low government approval rate is the slam-dunk excitable Tories think it is this far out from a GE. If asked the question I would respond with a resounding disapproval, but I still wouldn't be voting for a government led by Farage or Badenoch. In fact I'd vote for whoever keeps them out.
  • eek said:

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    The fall of Assad must have made Starmer nervous about what could happen here.
    Really - I don't think we've spent the last 15 years in a civil and proxy civil war....
    Although if you went off @Scott_xP posts then maybe that is what the last 15 years were like.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,999

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    The fall of Assad must have made Starmer nervous about what could happen here.
    I don't even believe you are joking.
  • Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    FFS

    Then we would have a coup.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,624

    eek said:

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    The fall of Assad must have made Starmer nervous about what could happen here.
    Really - I don't think we've spent the last 15 years in a civil and proxy civil war....
    Although if you went off @Scott_xP posts then maybe that is what the last 15 years were like.
    You know xP means Scott cut and paste
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,824

    Corbyn and the Gaza independents to form a new party:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/gaza-independents-to-register-new-party/

    Will it have a paramilitary wing?
    I am free on Sundays. (Unless Leeds are playing.)
  • You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you latest:

    Photos of Birmingham DHL fire suggest device could have downed plane
    Images consistent with fire from magnesium-based device, suspected to be part of Russian sabotage plot

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/dec/10/photos-of-birmingham-dhl-fire-suggest-device-could-have-downed-plane

    Meanwhile, Starmer dithers over defence spending.

    How can you defend against an alleged incendiary device on a private companies transport aircraft?

    What the feck has that got to do with defence?

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,999

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    FFS

    Then we would have a coup.

    With Musk and Candy cash behind them the ghosts of Peter Wright and Louis Mountbatten might just pull it off this time around.
  • Foxy said:

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    One people, one nation, one leader!
    Ein volk, ein reich, ein Farage
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,755

    Evening PB'ers.

    According to Senator Chris Smith at the congressional hearing just now, 12-30 drones recently followed a coastguard boat, and 50 were seen by them coming in from the ocean.

    Did they get any good photos or videos? Maybe they left their mobile phones behind?
    I doubt they would be allowed to provide their own mobile footage.
    At the same hearing, the FBI have said it's "concerning" and that they can't explain it all as yet.
    Ah, the good stuff is being suppressed again. Ok.
    Caricatures don't help. As is obvious, police, coastguards, etc are hardly frele to release their own footage to the public.

    We'll just have to see how it all plays out.
    It’s just so reminiscent of other stories we’ve been hearing about, and in those cases we were always promised the really good stuff was there. It wasn’t. The best ones have been easily debunked.

    People are terrible witnesses. Absolutely terrible. I have no idea if these coastguard were seeing 12-30 drones, but it seem rather unlikely.

    Last night I had a chat with my neighbour, who was somewhat in his cups. We got onto the subject of ghosts. I don’t believe they exist. I’d rather they did. He firmly believes, thinks he’s seen a little girl in his kitchen on 3 or 4 occasions and hears knocking on a regular basis. I have never experienced anything I cannot rationally explain. He claims to have.

    I strongly suspect the events going on right now are a classic flap. A trigger happens, then people start seeing things all over. It will eventually fizzle out. There will be no drones recovered. Just like at Gatwick.
    As a sort of devil's advocate position, in of themselves drones are an actual thing.

    Whether that means massive open and blatant state-sponsored spying via entire fleets of the things is a different kettle of fish entirely, but it's not exactly in the realms of crazy to imagine a handful of random bad actors flying the sort of thing you can probably order from Argos if you so wished in the vicinity of some sensitive areas.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,211
    Dura_Ace said:

    Corbyn and the Gaza independents to form a new party:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/gaza-independents-to-register-new-party/

    Will it have a paramilitary wing?
    I am free on Sundays. (Unless Leeds are playing.)
    Just so you know, I’ll be the leader of the first splitters. Don’t even know what I’m splitting over but I know where the cash comes from in revolutions.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,624
    So because this train is delayed for an hour I get a full refund (bar £3 a gave to Seatfrog for their service charge for an upgrade).

    I'm going to register a complaint though as LNER customer service staff work 9 to 5 so won't be checking claims at 22:15 regardless of what the email claims..
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    FFS

    Then we would have a coup.

    With Musk and Candy cash behind them the ghosts of Peter Wright and Louis Mountbatten might just pull it off this time around.
    Jimmy's secret army

    https://youtu.be/oJ-9R6NCZ0A?feature=shared
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
    Those are measures of outputs.

    You need to compare with inputs to get the productivity changes.
    Did you actually read the article?
    Did you ?

    From the Introduction:

    One reason for poor NHS performance in recent years is the seemingly large fall in hospital productivity since the start of the pandemic. Put simply, the service is requiring more funding and more staff to deliver the same amount of hospital care. This year, for the first time, NHS England produced its own estimate of the productivity shortfall, estimating that acute hospital productivity in 2023–24 was 11% lower than pre-pandemic levels.

    From the Conclusion:

    NHS hospital productivity remains substantially below pre-pandemic levels. The productivity increase between last year and this year will not on its own deliver the scale of improvements in NHS performance promised at the election. NHS targets for increasing the number of treatments from the waiting list, produced as part of the previous government’s 2022 elective recovery plan, are still very likely to be missed this year. And at the current rate, you would need several more years’ improvements just to return the NHS to its pre-pandemic productivity levels, let alone exceed them. The NHS workforce plan is built on the assumption that the NHS can deliver continual improvements in labour productivity – without these, even the large planned increase in the NHS workforce would not, according to the service’s own estimates, be enough to meet demand for care.

    And suggesting NHS deserve a real terms pay rise because output has increased in 2024 also requires you to accept there should have been pay cuts because output fell in the years before.
    There were real terms pay cuts in the NHS. Quite substantial ones.
    Doesn't that depends on what year you start from and what salary grade ?

    IIRC the pay restraint years were in the early and mid 2010s and affected higher grades more ?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,624

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
    Those are measures of outputs.

    You need to compare with inputs to get the productivity changes.
    Did you actually read the article?
    Did you ?

    From the Introduction:

    One reason for poor NHS performance in recent years is the seemingly large fall in hospital productivity since the start of the pandemic. Put simply, the service is requiring more funding and more staff to deliver the same amount of hospital care. This year, for the first time, NHS England produced its own estimate of the productivity shortfall, estimating that acute hospital productivity in 2023–24 was 11% lower than pre-pandemic levels.

    From the Conclusion:

    NHS hospital productivity remains substantially below pre-pandemic levels. The productivity increase between last year and this year will not on its own deliver the scale of improvements in NHS performance promised at the election. NHS targets for increasing the number of treatments from the waiting list, produced as part of the previous government’s 2022 elective recovery plan, are still very likely to be missed this year. And at the current rate, you would need several more years’ improvements just to return the NHS to its pre-pandemic productivity levels, let alone exceed them. The NHS workforce plan is built on the assumption that the NHS can deliver continual improvements in labour productivity – without these, even the large planned increase in the NHS workforce would not, according to the service’s own estimates, be enough to meet demand for care.

    And suggesting NHS deserve a real terms pay rise because output has increased in 2024 also requires you to accept there should have been pay cuts because output fell in the years before.
    There were real terms pay cuts in the NHS. Quite substantial ones.
    Doesn't that depends on what year you start from and what salary grade ?

    IIRC the pay restraint years were in the early and mid 2010s and affected higher grades more ?
    unless you joined in 2016/17 - you will have experienced pay cuts relative to living costs...
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Corbyn and the Gaza independents to form a new party:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/gaza-independents-to-register-new-party/

    Will it have a paramilitary wing?
    I am free on Sundays. (Unless Leeds are playing.)
    What position do you play for Leeds ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,999
    ...
    Foxy said:

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    FFS

    Then we would have a coup.

    With Musk and Candy cash behind them the ghosts of Peter Wright and Louis Mountbatten might just pull it off this time around.
    Jimmy's secret army

    https://youtu.be/oJ-9R6NCZ0A?feature=shared
    I am pondering who Jimmy posts as on PB. I have some ideas. Likewise Rigsby, although Rigsby might be me.
  • When I see Feminism I think Germaine Greer or Naomi Wolf, who are a bit chippy and have a men problem.

    I wouldn't rate it as a positive, but it's certainly an ideology you're expected to endorse. I expect it gets virtually all women and a good chunk of liberal men.

    Naomi Wolf is a waste of space.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307

    ...

    Foxy said:

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    FFS

    Then we would have a coup.

    With Musk and Candy cash behind them the ghosts of Peter Wright and Louis Mountbatten might just pull it off this time around.
    Jimmy's secret army

    https://youtu.be/oJ-9R6NCZ0A?feature=shared
    I am pondering who Jimmy posts as on PB. I have some ideas. Likewise Rigsby, although Rigsby might be me.
    Perrin, not Rigsby I think.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,624

    Dura_Ace said:

    Corbyn and the Gaza independents to form a new party:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/gaza-independents-to-register-new-party/

    Will it have a paramilitary wing?
    I am free on Sundays. (Unless Leeds are playing.)
    What position do you play for Leeds ?
    Service Crew
  • eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
    Those are measures of outputs.

    You need to compare with inputs to get the productivity changes.
    Did you actually read the article?
    Did you ?

    From the Introduction:

    One reason for poor NHS performance in recent years is the seemingly large fall in hospital productivity since the start of the pandemic. Put simply, the service is requiring more funding and more staff to deliver the same amount of hospital care. This year, for the first time, NHS England produced its own estimate of the productivity shortfall, estimating that acute hospital productivity in 2023–24 was 11% lower than pre-pandemic levels.

    From the Conclusion:

    NHS hospital productivity remains substantially below pre-pandemic levels. The productivity increase between last year and this year will not on its own deliver the scale of improvements in NHS performance promised at the election. NHS targets for increasing the number of treatments from the waiting list, produced as part of the previous government’s 2022 elective recovery plan, are still very likely to be missed this year. And at the current rate, you would need several more years’ improvements just to return the NHS to its pre-pandemic productivity levels, let alone exceed them. The NHS workforce plan is built on the assumption that the NHS can deliver continual improvements in labour productivity – without these, even the large planned increase in the NHS workforce would not, according to the service’s own estimates, be enough to meet demand for care.

    And suggesting NHS deserve a real terms pay rise because output has increased in 2024 also requires you to accept there should have been pay cuts because output fell in the years before.
    There were real terms pay cuts in the NHS. Quite substantial ones.
    Doesn't that depends on what year you start from and what salary grade ?

    IIRC the pay restraint years were in the early and mid 2010s and affected higher grades more ?
    unless you joined in 2016/17 - you will have experienced pay cuts relative to living costs...
    Given an expanding NHS workforce and natural staff churn/turnover at least a third and maybe over a half of the current NHS workforce have joined since that point.

    In retrospect though the coalition government did a good job at keeping control of wages - those affected would understandably view it differently.
  • maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    You want to be able to pay women less??

    Oh and for you and other posters - the Equal Pay Act 1970 has not been in force since 2010 - some 14 years ago. It was replaced by the 2010 Equality Act.

    Judging by the comments on this thread, if the poll had been done only for PB posters, feminism would have been lucky to get to 5.1% let alone 51%.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
    Those are measures of outputs.

    You need to compare with inputs to get the productivity changes.
    Did you actually read the article?
    Did you ?

    From the Introduction:

    One reason for poor NHS performance in recent years is the seemingly large fall in hospital productivity since the start of the pandemic. Put simply, the service is requiring more funding and more staff to deliver the same amount of hospital care. This year, for the first time, NHS England produced its own estimate of the productivity shortfall, estimating that acute hospital productivity in 2023–24 was 11% lower than pre-pandemic levels.

    From the Conclusion:

    NHS hospital productivity remains substantially below pre-pandemic levels. The productivity increase between last year and this year will not on its own deliver the scale of improvements in NHS performance promised at the election. NHS targets for increasing the number of treatments from the waiting list, produced as part of the previous government’s 2022 elective recovery plan, are still very likely to be missed this year. And at the current rate, you would need several more years’ improvements just to return the NHS to its pre-pandemic productivity levels, let alone exceed them. The NHS workforce plan is built on the assumption that the NHS can deliver continual improvements in labour productivity – without these, even the large planned increase in the NHS workforce would not, according to the service’s own estimates, be enough to meet demand for care.

    And suggesting NHS deserve a real terms pay rise because output has increased in 2024 also requires you to accept there should have been pay cuts because output fell in the years before.
    There were real terms pay cuts in the NHS. Quite substantial ones.
    Doesn't that depends on what year you start from and what salary grade ?

    IIRC the pay restraint years were in the early and mid 2010s and affected higher grades more ?
    unless you joined in 2016/17 - you will have experienced pay cuts relative to living costs...
    Given an expanding NHS workforce and natural staff churn/turnover at least a third and maybe over a half of the current NHS workforce have joined since that point.

    In retrospect though the coalition government did a good job at keeping control of wages - those affected would understandably view it differently.
    Yes, but like the other economies of the last 14 years in Army, Navy, prisons, courts, councils, universities, you can only run things down so far before collapsing the system, and that is where we are. Starmer is not the reason we are living in a failing state. He may well not have the nous to fix it, but he wasn't the one that broke it.

  • AnthonyT said:

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    You want to be able to pay women less??

    Oh and for you and other posters - the Equal Pay Act 1970 has not been in force since 2010 - some 14 years ago. It was replaced by the 2010 Equality Act.

    Judging by the comments on this thread, if the poll had been done only for PB posters, feminism would have been lucky to get to 5.1% let alone 51%.
    I don't think women should be paid less for doing the same job as a man.

    I do think each job should have its own pay rate based on its own supply and demand - and if a job relies upon rarer or more heavily-demanded skills it should be able to be paid more than a job which relies on more common skills.

    And there should be absolutely nothing from preventing women from achieving the same skills and same job as a man has. If other jobs pay more, there should be absolutely nothing preventing women from going for those jobs - paying more for jobs that are not the same and have supply exceeding demand is a waste of money and not "progress".
  • Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
    Those are measures of outputs.

    You need to compare with inputs to get the productivity changes.
    Did you actually read the article?
    Did you ?

    From the Introduction:

    One reason for poor NHS performance in recent years is the seemingly large fall in hospital productivity since the start of the pandemic. Put simply, the service is requiring more funding and more staff to deliver the same amount of hospital care. This year, for the first time, NHS England produced its own estimate of the productivity shortfall, estimating that acute hospital productivity in 2023–24 was 11% lower than pre-pandemic levels.

    From the Conclusion:

    NHS hospital productivity remains substantially below pre-pandemic levels. The productivity increase between last year and this year will not on its own deliver the scale of improvements in NHS performance promised at the election. NHS targets for increasing the number of treatments from the waiting list, produced as part of the previous government’s 2022 elective recovery plan, are still very likely to be missed this year. And at the current rate, you would need several more years’ improvements just to return the NHS to its pre-pandemic productivity levels, let alone exceed them. The NHS workforce plan is built on the assumption that the NHS can deliver continual improvements in labour productivity – without these, even the large planned increase in the NHS workforce would not, according to the service’s own estimates, be enough to meet demand for care.

    And suggesting NHS deserve a real terms pay rise because output has increased in 2024 also requires you to accept there should have been pay cuts because output fell in the years before.
    There were real terms pay cuts in the NHS. Quite substantial ones.
    Doesn't that depends on what year you start from and what salary grade ?

    IIRC the pay restraint years were in the early and mid 2010s and affected higher grades more ?
    unless you joined in 2016/17 - you will have experienced pay cuts relative to living costs...
    Given an expanding NHS workforce and natural staff churn/turnover at least a third and maybe over a half of the current NHS workforce have joined since that point.

    In retrospect though the coalition government did a good job at keeping control of wages - those affected would understandably view it differently.
    Yes, but like the other economies of the last 14 years in Army, Navy, prisons, courts, councils, universities, you can only run things down so far before collapsing the system, and that is where we are. Starmer is not the reason we are living in a failing state. He may well not have the nous to fix it, but he wasn't the one that broke it.

    It does not seem we are remotely there yet given the Government can find £600 to piss away on a pair of folders because it has no shortage of cash to spend to think "that's a waste of money, are you having a laugh!"
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,706
    AnthonyT said:

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    You want to be able to pay women less??

    Oh and for you and other posters - the Equal Pay Act 1970 has not been in force since 2010 - some 14 years ago. It was replaced by the 2010 Equality Act.

    Judging by the comments on this thread, if the poll had been done only for PB posters, feminism would have been lucky to get to 5.1% let alone 51%.
    I think it’s really complicated. Take academic careers. Generally men don’t take too many career breaks, and if they are sucessful go through the ranks of lecturer, senior lecturer/reader to prof. Not all of course, I doubt I’ll get beyond reader. For women it’s common to have one, two or more years off to have children. Universities generally are good with maternity leave, so a year for each baby is common.

    What happens for said women when it comes to promotion? It’s not even as simple as having a year or two less experience, a year or two less research and funding etc. it can be really hard getting going again after a break, and now with childcare constraints and often a choice for shorter hours.

    So progression can be harder for women. What should we do about this? Is it ‘fair’ to promote women with l fewer publications, less research, less experience than an equivalent man? Some say yes, some say no. It’s not easy.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    It's a huge relief that Anabob doesn't seem to be around tonight.
    If he were, we'd be well into 10,000 posts on where on earth Assad will be able to spend all his cash.

    I’m here! No idea what you are talking about re: Assad. But, yes, to confirm, if you need me to, that cash is a pointless, dirty, risky, waste of time and resources. But some people still seem to like it, so bully for them.
  • I reckon my own ordering among the "isms" wouldn't be too far off that of the great British public. Certainly the same top 4. Conservatism wouldn't feature but capitalism certainly would. I've got some time for anarchism and libertarianism too, but none for fascism, communism, nationalism or populism.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,099
    eek said:

    So because this train is delayed for an hour I get a full refund (bar £3 a gave to Seatfrog for their service charge for an upgrade).

    I'm going to register a complaint though as LNER customer service staff work 9 to 5 so won't be checking claims at 22:15 regardless of what the email claims..

    I used to go out with someone quite senior in the finance sector. Her train was similarly delayed. A few very pointed complaints to the stationmaster and then head of the franchise, later - a taxi was paid for from Manchester to Glasgow. Plus extensive compensation.

    And there's me - glad of a polystyrene cup of Bovril while waiting on the bus replacement. At best.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    Reform UK is building a winning team to change British politics forever.

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1866462615930871998

    When is the first electoral opportunity?

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1866462907199840292

    The first step is the English County Council elections on May 1st 2025. Britain Needs Reform.
    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1866475659003826450
  • GM to retreat from robotaxis and stop funding its Cruise autonomous vehicle unit
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/detroit-ap-california-san-francisco-b2662210.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,207
    edited December 2024

    I reckon my own ordering among the "isms" wouldn't be too far off that of the great British public. Certainly the same top 4. Conservatism wouldn't feature but capitalism certainly would. I've got some time for anarchism and libertarianism too, but none for fascism, communism, nationalism or populism.

    So wealth creation but also self centredness and greed are fine, tradition isn't, state control of the economy isn't, a strong nation state isn't and nor is authoritarianism
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,545
    edited December 2024
    Awks,

    The World Central Kitchen has announced that it is dismissing 62 of its employees in Gaza after Israeli security checks found these employees involvement in terror activities. That's about 12% of WCK's Gaza staff.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/world-central-kitchen-fires-dozens-workers-gaza-after-israel-accuses-them-2024-12-10/
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,902
    Power outtage third night in a row. Mind you, I can see the workmen from my window, so no complaints.
  • HYUFD said:

    I reckon my own ordering among the "isms" wouldn't be too far off that of the great British public. Certainly the same top 4. Conservatism wouldn't feature but capitalism certainly would. I've got some time for anarchism and libertarianism too, but none for fascism, communism, nationalism or populism.

    So wealth creation but also self centredness and greed are fine, tradition isn't, state control of the economy isn't, a strong nation state isn't and nor is authoritarianism
    Yes basically. I don't approve of greed and self centredness but they are part of human nature and can deliver good outcomes via the invisible hand of the market, as Adam Smith argues. Needs to be tempered with a bit of socialism to smooth off the rough edges. I don't mind a strong nation state but to me "nationalism" is more about wrapping yourself in the flag and all that kind of stuff, which just seems a bit basic.
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 240
    cousin marriage needs to be banned.

    We have a problem of British Pakistanis marrying their cousins back in Pakistan for generation after generation. This is real bad for the children. If it was one generation and then skipped a generation then it wouldn't be so bad. But right now it's a disaster.
    (I'm British Pakistani and Indian).
  • Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
    Those are measures of outputs.

    You need to compare with inputs to get the productivity changes.
    Did you actually read the article?
    Did you ?

    From the Introduction:

    One reason for poor NHS performance in recent years is the seemingly large fall in hospital productivity since the start of the pandemic. Put simply, the service is requiring more funding and more staff to deliver the same amount of hospital care. This year, for the first time, NHS England produced its own estimate of the productivity shortfall, estimating that acute hospital productivity in 2023–24 was 11% lower than pre-pandemic levels.

    From the Conclusion:

    NHS hospital productivity remains substantially below pre-pandemic levels. The productivity increase between last year and this year will not on its own deliver the scale of improvements in NHS performance promised at the election. NHS targets for increasing the number of treatments from the waiting list, produced as part of the previous government’s 2022 elective recovery plan, are still very likely to be missed this year. And at the current rate, you would need several more years’ improvements just to return the NHS to its pre-pandemic productivity levels, let alone exceed them. The NHS workforce plan is built on the assumption that the NHS can deliver continual improvements in labour productivity – without these, even the large planned increase in the NHS workforce would not, according to the service’s own estimates, be enough to meet demand for care.

    And suggesting NHS deserve a real terms pay rise because output has increased in 2024 also requires you to accept there should have been pay cuts because output fell in the years before.
    There were real terms pay cuts in the NHS. Quite substantial ones.
    Doesn't that depends on what year you start from and what salary grade ?

    IIRC the pay restraint years were in the early and mid 2010s and affected higher grades more ?
    unless you joined in 2016/17 - you will have experienced pay cuts relative to living costs...
    Given an expanding NHS workforce and natural staff churn/turnover at least a third and maybe over a half of the current NHS workforce have joined since that point.

    In retrospect though the coalition government did a good job at keeping control of wages - those affected would understandably view it differently.
    Yes, but like the other economies of the last 14 years in Army, Navy, prisons, courts, councils, universities, you can only run things down so far before collapsing the system, and that is where we are. Starmer is not the reason we are living in a failing state. He may well not have the nous to fix it, but he wasn't the one that broke it.

    Enough money has been spent to add a trillion to the national debt.

    Much of it spent badly I don't doubt.

    As I'm not an oldie, infrastructure consultant or politician's mate sod all of that badly spent money has come my way.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603
    edited December 2024
    Nunu3 said:

    cousin marriage needs to be banned.

    We have a problem of British Pakistanis marrying their cousins back in Pakistan for generation after generation. This is real bad for the children. If it was one generation and then skipped a generation then it wouldn't be so bad. But right now it's a disaster.
    (I'm British Pakistani and Indian).

    I saw floating around online Iqbal Mohamed MP's comment on this subject, which was that it helps 'build family bonds', which is a novel way of putting it to say the least, though the full speech has a bit more to say in contextualising that element.

    (Also, apparently cousin marriage not being illegal was Henry VIII's fault - his dick got us all into many problems).

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2024-12-10/debates/6A325A71-434B-42FF-AC9F-FF8C6FD85B00/details#contribution-E8F19147-1F61-42C5-B474-CA1A2AF1C1E7
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603


    ‪Sunder Katwala (sundersays)‬ ‪@sundersays.bsky.social‬
    ·
    15m
    Elon Musk following the local elections now ...

    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3lcy6eh7lns2b


    My own guess is most of this from Musk is he was seriously pissed at not being invited to Labour's invest in britain conference the other month. So he's determined to get Starmer.

    This is a man who behaved like a petulant child when advertisers halted giving twitter money (though his fanboys for some reason found it a sign of strength to act like a toddler about it), and spends most of his time on twitter it seems - he may be supremely rich and powerful, but he's clearly not abve being very petty.

    Heck, perhaps it has even helped him achieve his great successes, as he will never ever stop if he gets annoyed!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603
    HYUFD said:

    Reform UK is building a winning team to change British politics forever.

    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1866462615930871998

    When is the first electoral opportunity?

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1866462907199840292

    The first step is the English County Council elections on May 1st 2025. Britain Needs Reform.
    https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1866475659003826450

    It's the local elections Nige, not everywhere has a county council.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603
    I recommend Nigel start with some really obscure councils, where only small numbers are needed, like the Isles of Scilly, to get some unusual headlines even if Reform underperform expectations elsewhere.

    Seems they tend to go with independents and not party labels, but that used to be the case for the City of London Corporation, and Labour are now represented there alongside your local independent type groupings, so things can change.

    The corporation will be holding its election in March 2025 apparently, so clearly must be watched closely for a Reform surge.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_the_Isles_of_Scilly
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London_Corporation
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,979

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    My solution is to use technology to reduce the number of workers required *and* pay them more *and* increase productivity.

    But that’s crazy talk, I suppose.
    What's your technology solution to reducing the number of people who empty your bins?
    Productivity gains can come from using less of something to achieve the same thing. So a technological solution to reducing the number of people emptying bins would be to reduce the volume of waste generated in the first place.

    It's why some of the slightly crazy ideas that come from the left are unfairly maligned, IMO. They often represent common-sense productivity gains, like more energy-efficient homes or cycling distances below 5 miles.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,624
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
    Those are measures of outputs.

    You need to compare with inputs to get the productivity changes.
    Did you actually read the article?
    Did you ?

    From the Introduction:

    One reason for poor NHS performance in recent years is the seemingly large fall in hospital productivity since the start of the pandemic. Put simply, the service is requiring more funding and more staff to deliver the same amount of hospital care. This year, for the first time, NHS England produced its own estimate of the productivity shortfall, estimating that acute hospital productivity in 2023–24 was 11% lower than pre-pandemic levels.

    From the Conclusion:

    NHS hospital productivity remains substantially below pre-pandemic levels. The productivity increase between last year and this year will not on its own deliver the scale of improvements in NHS performance promised at the election. NHS targets for increasing the number of treatments from the waiting list, produced as part of the previous government’s 2022 elective recovery plan, are still very likely to be missed this year. And at the current rate, you would need several more years’ improvements just to return the NHS to its pre-pandemic productivity levels, let alone exceed them. The NHS workforce plan is built on the assumption that the NHS can deliver continual improvements in labour productivity – without these, even the large planned increase in the NHS workforce would not, according to the service’s own estimates, be enough to meet demand for care.

    And suggesting NHS deserve a real terms pay rise because output has increased in 2024 also requires you to accept there should have been pay cuts because output fell in the years before.
    There were real terms pay cuts in the NHS. Quite substantial ones.
    Doesn't that depends on what year you start from and what salary grade ?

    IIRC the pay restraint years were in the early and mid 2010s and affected higher grades more ?
    unless you joined in 2016/17 - you will have experienced pay cuts relative to living costs...
    Given an expanding NHS workforce and natural staff churn/turnover at least a third and maybe over a half of the current NHS workforce have joined since that point.

    In retrospect though the coalition government did a good job at keeping control of wages - those affected would understandably view it differently.
    Yes, but like the other economies of the last 14 years in Army, Navy, prisons, courts, councils, universities, you can only run things down so far before collapsing the system, and that is where we are. Starmer is not the reason we are living in a failing state. He may well not have the nous to fix it, but he wasn't the one that broke it.

    He’s going to cop the blame for not fixing it though which will likely result in the next Government being either the Reform or a coalition of not reform parties
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    My solution is to use technology to reduce the number of workers required *and* pay them more *and* increase productivity.

    But that’s crazy talk, I suppose.
    What's your technology solution to reducing the number of people who empty your bins?
    Robots to pickup the council wheelie bins are in prototype already. Creating robots that can pick up and load the colour coded recycling bins would not be an impossible task either. Certainly compared to robots that can pick raspberries without damaging them.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    In LA, the trucks go down the street, and giant mechanical arms pick up the wheelie bins and deposit their contents.

    There's nothing impossible - on a five to ten year horizon - about having the refuse trucks be entirely automated.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402
    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    My solution is to use technology to reduce the number of workers required *and* pay them more *and* increase productivity.

    But that’s crazy talk, I suppose.
    What's your technology solution to reducing the number of people who empty your bins?
    Robots to pickup the council wheelie bins are in prototype already. Creating robots that can pick up and load the colour coded recycling bins would not be an impossible task either. Certainly compared to robots that can pick raspberries without damaging them.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    In LA, the trucks go down the street, and giant mechanical arms pick up the wheelie bins and deposit their contents.

    There's nothing impossible - on a five to ten year horizon - about having the refuse trucks be entirely automated.
    With enough technological progess we can just wire up everyone to a feeding tube and a waste tube, while entertainment is wirelessly delivered to a chip in their brain.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603

    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    My solution is to use technology to reduce the number of workers required *and* pay them more *and* increase productivity.

    But that’s crazy talk, I suppose.
    What's your technology solution to reducing the number of people who empty your bins?
    Robots to pickup the council wheelie bins are in prototype already. Creating robots that can pick up and load the colour coded recycling bins would not be an impossible task either. Certainly compared to robots that can pick raspberries without damaging them.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    In LA, the trucks go down the street, and giant mechanical arms pick up the wheelie bins and deposit their contents.

    There's nothing impossible - on a five to ten year horizon - about having the refuse trucks be entirely automated.
    With enough technological progess we can just wire up everyone to a feeding tube and a waste tube, while entertainment is wirelessly delivered to a chip in their brain.
    If Meta are not working on this right now I would be very surprised.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,450
    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    My solution is to use technology to reduce the number of workers required *and* pay them more *and* increase productivity.

    But that’s crazy talk, I suppose.
    What's your technology solution to reducing the number of people who empty your bins?
    Robots to pickup the council wheelie bins are in prototype already. Creating robots that can pick up and load the colour coded recycling bins would not be an impossible task either. Certainly compared to robots that can pick raspberries without damaging them.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    In LA, the trucks go down the street, and giant mechanical arms pick up the wheelie bins and deposit their contents.

    There's nothing impossible - on a five to ten year horizon - about having the refuse trucks be entirely automated.
    ...and ten minutes later somebody hacks them and we have automated killer trucks with giant mechanical arms roaming Los Angeles, picking people up and crushing them in their robot jaws.

    What's the first rule of doing things? If what you do can result in a murderbot, then don't do that. 😃
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,979
    Keeping an eye on the CEO killer thing in the US. The Trump election has seriously frayed law and order, I think - "if millions of people can vote for a convicted felon to be President, I'm not going to apologise for supporting this guy" is the general vibe.

    The most absurd element so far is this article discussing his playing of the hyper violent game "Among Us". I spent much of the pandemic having fun with my friends doing exactly the same...

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ironic-suspect-unitedhealthcare-slaying-played-video-game-killer-rcna183550?cid=referral_taboolafeed
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701
    edited December 2024
    AnthonyT said:

    When I see Feminism I think Germaine Greer or Naomi Wolf, who are a bit chippy and have a men problem.

    I wouldn't rate it as a positive, but it's certainly an ideology you're expected to endorse. I expect it gets virtually all women and a good chunk of liberal men.

    Naomi Wolf is a waste of space.
    She will forever be in my heart for the radio interview regarding her book Outrages, in which she wrote movingly about all the people executed in the UK for their sexuality, due to court records containing the phrase "death recorded".

    During the radio interview, a historian (I forget whom) pointed out to her that the phrase didn't mean they'd been executed. It simple meant they had died.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,450

    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    My solution is to use technology to reduce the number of workers required *and* pay them more *and* increase productivity.

    But that’s crazy talk, I suppose.
    What's your technology solution to reducing the number of people who empty your bins?
    Robots to pickup the council wheelie bins are in prototype already. Creating robots that can pick up and load the colour coded recycling bins would not be an impossible task either. Certainly compared to robots that can pick raspberries without damaging them.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    In LA, the trucks go down the street, and giant mechanical arms pick up the wheelie bins and deposit their contents.

    There's nothing impossible - on a five to ten year horizon - about having the refuse trucks be entirely automated.
    With enough technological progess we can just wire up everyone to a feeding tube and a waste tube, while entertainment is wirelessly delivered to a chip in their brain.
    There's a film in there somewhere... :)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701

    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    My solution is to use technology to reduce the number of workers required *and* pay them more *and* increase productivity.

    But that’s crazy talk, I suppose.
    What's your technology solution to reducing the number of people who empty your bins?
    Robots to pickup the council wheelie bins are in prototype already. Creating robots that can pick up and load the colour coded recycling bins would not be an impossible task either. Certainly compared to robots that can pick raspberries without damaging them.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    In LA, the trucks go down the street, and giant mechanical arms pick up the wheelie bins and deposit their contents.

    There's nothing impossible - on a five to ten year horizon - about having the refuse trucks be entirely automated.
    With enough technological progess we can just wire up everyone to a feeding tube and a waste tube, while entertainment is wirelessly delivered to a chip in their brain.
    Well, whatever floats your boat.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,048
    Truly, the Millwall of governments...
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 733

    It's a huge relief that Anabob doesn't seem to be around tonight.
    If he were, we'd be well into 10,000 posts on where on earth Assad will be able to spend all his cash.


    B
    A
    S
    H
    A
    R
    CASHAR, Shirley?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603
    Eabhal said:

    Keeping an eye on the CEO killer thing in the US. The Trump election has seriously frayed law and order, I think - "if millions of people can vote for a convicted felon to be President, I'm not going to apologise for supporting this guy" is the general vibe.

    The most absurd element so far is this article discussing his playing of the hyper violent game "Among Us". I spent much of the pandemic having fun with my friends doing exactly the same...

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ironic-suspect-unitedhealthcare-slaying-played-video-game-killer-rcna183550?cid=referral_taboolafeed

    Despite the average gamer probably being in their 30s, and the extremely varied nature of games and gaming in general, occasionally the news media still turns into a bunch of nonagenarian scaremongers about the dangers of violent games, or condescendingly state only children play video games. You see the latter on here sometimes too, as though playing a game is something you automatically grow out of, as though people also grow out of reading books or watching movies, so even intelligent people can turn off their brains on the subject.

    Disclosure - I have actually done very little gaming in the last few years.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,048
    geoffw said:

    On my calculations Assad could buy up all the homes of Russia's 3rd and 4th largest cities, Novosibirsk and Yekatarinburg (total pop 3.2 million) with his supposed loot from Syria

    Truly, the most miserable session of retail therapy ever...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,048
    edited December 2024
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    My solution is to use technology to reduce the number of workers required *and* pay them more *and* increase productivity.

    But that’s crazy talk, I suppose.
    What's your technology solution to reducing the number of people who empty your bins?
    Robots to pickup the council wheelie bins are in prototype already. Creating robots that can pick up and load the colour coded recycling bins would not be an impossible task either. Certainly compared to robots that can pick raspberries without damaging them.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    In LA, the trucks go down the street, and giant mechanical arms pick up the wheelie bins and deposit their contents.

    There's nothing impossible - on a five to ten year horizon - about having the refuse trucks be entirely automated.
    ...and ten minutes later somebody hacks them and we have automated killer trucks with giant mechanical arms roaming Los Angeles, picking people up and crushing them in their robot jaws.

    What's the first rule of doing things? If what you do can result in a murderbot, then don't do that. 😃
    Truly, there's a film in there somewhere...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,603
    edited December 2024
    rcs1000 said:

    AnthonyT said:

    When I see Feminism I think Germaine Greer or Naomi Wolf, who are a bit chippy and have a men problem.

    I wouldn't rate it as a positive, but it's certainly an ideology you're expected to endorse. I expect it gets virtually all women and a good chunk of liberal men.

    Naomi Wolf is a waste of space.
    She will forever be in my heart for the radio interview regarding her book Outrages, in which she wrote movingly about all the people executed in the UK for their sexuality, due to court records containing the phrase "death recorded".

    During the radio interview, a historian (I forget whom) pointed out to her that the phrase didn't mean they'd been executed. It simple meant they had died.
    It was Matthew Sweet, and apparently it did not even mean the person died.

    "I don't think you're right about this," Sweet replied, before detailing the term "death recorded" in fact meant that judges had abstained from handing down a death sentence.

    "I don't think any of the executions you've identified here actually happened," he said.

    In one particular case, he pointed out a 14-year-old boy had been discharged and not executed as she had detailed.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50153743

    Absolutely hilarious situation. How does someone still have an academic or literary career after that?

    I think she was completely doolally about the 2019 GE exit poll if my memory is correct.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,089

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    A job should be paid as much as is required to recruit enough people to fill it no more and no less
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307
    Pagan2 said:

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    Yes, we often tend to think of woke as a recent phenomenon, but its roots go back to 1960s radicalism. These laws will need to be unpicked by a future government.
    I can't wait for you Reformers to turn the clock back to 1900.

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Have you never heard of the Equal Pay Act 1970? A nice easy way to educate yourself is to watch the excellent film Made in Dagenham.
    A law that should be repealed.

    Nobody should be stopping any woman, or anyone else, from applying for or getting a higher paid job. That doesn't justify people keeping the job they've got and then demanding more money for it.
    What are you on about you plumb? The Equal Pay Act ensures women get paid the same as men for a similarly skilled job. The Ford example was women doing skilled work sewing car seat covers were paid labourers wages. That wasn't right.
    Women should be paid the same as men for the same job, not "similar".

    If a skilled job has plenty of supply of people willing to do the job, then its wages should be lower. That's supply and demand, not discrimination.

    If women want a "similar" job's wages, they should apply for that similar job. If they don't get it because they're women, then that's discrimination - not paying a totally different job less.
    A skilled job should be paid a skilled workers wage irrespective of gender. Same goes for the council context.

    PBers who wouldn't get out of bed for less than £100k a year demanding public sector workers collect their rubbish for peanuts is one of the conundrums of our post Brexit Britain.
    A job should be paid as much as is required to recruit enough people to fill it no more and no less
    Lots of vacancies in the NHS.

    About time I got a payrise 😀
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,979
    kle4 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Keeping an eye on the CEO killer thing in the US. The Trump election has seriously frayed law and order, I think - "if millions of people can vote for a convicted felon to be President, I'm not going to apologise for supporting this guy" is the general vibe.

    The most absurd element so far is this article discussing his playing of the hyper violent game "Among Us". I spent much of the pandemic having fun with my friends doing exactly the same...

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ironic-suspect-unitedhealthcare-slaying-played-video-game-killer-rcna183550?cid=referral_taboolafeed

    Despite the average gamer probably being in their 30s, and the extremely varied nature of games and gaming in general, occasionally the news media still turns into a bunch of nonagenarian scaremongers about the dangers of violent games, or condescendingly state only children play video games. You see the latter on here sometimes too, as though playing a game is something you automatically grow out of, as though people also grow out of reading books or watching movies, so even intelligent people can turn off their brains on the subject.

    Disclosure - I have actually done very little gaming in the last few years.
    I've been moving around quite a lot over the last two years so have been restricted to my MacBook (fine for some strategy/sandbox). But I've just settled down again and the new PC build is slowly coming together - indeed, I'll probably be asking PB for some advice on monitors in the next few weeks. :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AnthonyT said:

    When I see Feminism I think Germaine Greer or Naomi Wolf, who are a bit chippy and have a men problem.

    I wouldn't rate it as a positive, but it's certainly an ideology you're expected to endorse. I expect it gets virtually all women and a good chunk of liberal men.

    Naomi Wolf is a waste of space.
    She will forever be in my heart for the radio interview regarding her book Outrages, in which she wrote movingly about all the people executed in the UK for their sexuality, due to court records containing the phrase "death recorded".

    During the radio interview, a historian (I forget whom) pointed out to her that the phrase didn't mean they'd been executed. It simple meant they had died.
    It was Matthew Sweet, and apparently it did not even mean the person died.

    "I don't think you're right about this," Sweet replied, before detailing the term "death recorded" in fact meant that judges had abstained from handing down a death sentence.

    "I don't think any of the executions you've identified here actually happened," he said.

    In one particular case, he pointed out a 14-year-old boy had been discharged and not executed as she had detailed.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50153743

    Absolutely hilarious situation. How does someone still have an academic or literary career after that?

    I think she was completely doolally about the 2019 GE exit poll if my memory is correct.
    Thanks to her, there is now a Wikipedia article for the benefit of future scholars.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_recorded
  • Truly, the Millwall of governments...
    Time for another relaunch.....with new 7 pillars.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AnthonyT said:

    When I see Feminism I think Germaine Greer or Naomi Wolf, who are a bit chippy and have a men problem.

    I wouldn't rate it as a positive, but it's certainly an ideology you're expected to endorse. I expect it gets virtually all women and a good chunk of liberal men.

    Naomi Wolf is a waste of space.
    She will forever be in my heart for the radio interview regarding her book Outrages, in which she wrote movingly about all the people executed in the UK for their sexuality, due to court records containing the phrase "death recorded".

    During the radio interview, a historian (I forget whom) pointed out to her that the phrase didn't mean they'd been executed. It simple meant they had died.
    It was Matthew Sweet, and apparently it did not even mean the person died.

    "I don't think you're right about this," Sweet replied, before detailing the term "death recorded" in fact meant that judges had abstained from handing down a death sentence.

    "I don't think any of the executions you've identified here actually happened," he said.

    In one particular case, he pointed out a 14-year-old boy had been discharged and not executed as she had detailed.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50153743

    Absolutely hilarious situation. How does someone still have an academic or literary career after that?

    I think she was completely doolally about the 2019 GE exit poll if my memory is correct.
    You are right: I misremembered.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,450
    rcs1000 said:

    AnthonyT said:

    When I see Feminism I think Germaine Greer or Naomi Wolf, who are a bit chippy and have a men problem.

    I wouldn't rate it as a positive, but it's certainly an ideology you're expected to endorse. I expect it gets virtually all women and a good chunk of liberal men.

    Naomi Wolf is a waste of space.
    She will forever be in my heart for the radio interview regarding her book Outrages, in which she wrote movingly about all the people executed in the UK for their sexuality, due to court records containing the phrase "death recorded".

    During the radio interview, a historian (I forget whom) pointed out to her that the phrase didn't mean they'd been executed. It simple meant they had died.
    I thought it was more like they'd been exiled/discommodated, more like a legal death than an actual death
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,048

    Truly, the Millwall of governments...
    Time for another relaunch.....with new 7 pillars.
    They'd settle right now for two of wisdom and five of salt....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402

    Truly, the Millwall of governments...
    Time for another relaunch.....with new 7 pillars.
    They'd settle right now for two of wisdom and five of salt....
    They need to go the full Jaguar. Starmer can start styling himself like Karl Lagerfeld with the new Downing Street cat as his Choupette.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,004

    The Daily Telegraph died on this day 11th December 2024



    By the end, its inability to compete in a much changed world had carried it into ineptitude, hopelessly unable to compete with the Daily Star, Elon Musk’s X account, and other irrelevant and spoof media outlets of the 21st century. It leaves a UK, despite Brexit, owned and governed by decisions taken far away in foreign lands, as, in an ironic twist, the Daily Star was pointing this very thing out to its readership on its front page, the very same day the Daily Telegraph died.

    Commiserations to everyone once fond of it. 😔

    Why did it die on this day?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,004
    "Moment explosion blows up terraced house roof in Ilford"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9VmmBM_x84
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701
    Andy_JS said:

    "Moment explosion blows up terraced house roof in Ilford"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9VmmBM_x84

    My 14 year old son would have slept through that.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,999
    Foxy said:

    ...

    Foxy said:

    Do we need a coup, a new election and a Farage Government?
    FFS

    Then we would have a coup.

    With Musk and Candy cash behind them the ghosts of Peter Wright and Louis Mountbatten might just pull it off this time around.
    Jimmy's secret army

    https://youtu.be/oJ-9R6NCZ0A?feature=shared
    I am pondering who Jimmy posts as on PB. I have some ideas. Likewise Rigsby, although Rigsby might be me.
    Perrin, not Rigsby I think.
    Yes you are right. Although I remain more like the shambling Rigsby than the urbane Perrin.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,004
    edited December 2024
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Moment explosion blows up terraced house roof in Ilford"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9VmmBM_x84

    My 14 year old son would have slept through that.
    lol. We'll have to ask Sunil if he heard it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,131

    Omnium said:

    I find it rather disappointing that Israel, the US, and maybe others find the need to be so aggressive in allowing the dust to settle in Syria. There was never a great hope that the Syrian people would collectively ask themselves what the hell they've been doing for the last 100 years, but I think that the external actors have really eliminated any chance of that.

    Could Israel have held its hand out and said 'look, we can be friends, and together we can live in a region of peace and prosperity'? Clearly yes, but I doubt they ever considered it. 99% chance of failure, but it doesn't hurt to try.

    Here here
    Where, where ?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,009
    Afternoon all :)

    On topic, the problem is everyone has their own subjective interpretation and definition of all the “isms” listed. We could waste 100,000 posts trying to define liberalism, socialism, conservatism, centrism and environmentalism and be no nearer any kind of truth.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,004
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    On topic, the problem is everyone has their own subjective interpretation and definition of all the “isms” listed. We could waste 100,000 posts trying to define liberalism, socialism, conservatism, centrism and environmentalism and be no nearer any kind of truth.

    Afternoon? You must be somewhere exotic.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,661
    Andy_JS said:

    The Daily Telegraph died on this day 11th December 2024



    By the end, its inability to compete in a much changed world had carried it into ineptitude, hopelessly unable to compete with the Daily Star, Elon Musk’s X account, and other irrelevant and spoof media outlets of the 21st century. It leaves a UK, despite Brexit, owned and governed by decisions taken far away in foreign lands, as, in an ironic twist, the Daily Star was pointing this very thing out to its readership on its front page, the very same day the Daily Telegraph died.

    Commiserations to everyone once fond of it. 😔

    Why did it die on this day?
    Fairy porn, Andy? Seriously?

    The point of the clickbait is you’ve got to want to click. So it’s the difference between those who can do the clickbait age, and those who if they haven’t got it you couldn’t teach them.

    Besides, no point Telegraph frothing about state of things, it’s by listening to them that’s got us here.
  • Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.

    Quite a few Commies amongst the 18-24.

    One of Foxjr2's housemates is a communist.
    That's the age group for whom communism is an attractive theoretical concept rather than a horrific reality afflicting huge populations of the world.
    Sure but it doesn't bode well.
    No, I quite agree. I can explain but I can't approve.
    Even when communism existed, we were relatively equivocal in this country about its awfulness. I remember going to the museum of communism in Prague in the 90s, which pulled no punches about how evil and how useless the system was, and thinking how we just wouldn't be that direct in Britain. Communism always retained a bit of a cachet even during the worst years of it globally.
    I think it's simpler than romanticism.

    If young people feel no stake in society, even when they study and work hard, then expect a proportion to radicalise.

    People who feel failed by capitalism will look elsewhere for change.
    There is also, especially in America, the feeling that the new billionaire classes are not playing by the unwritten rules.
This discussion has been closed.