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Environmentalism, feminism, liberalism, and socialism are the favourite ideologies of Brits

SystemSystem Posts: 12,223
edited December 17 in General
Environmentalism, feminism, liberalism, and socialism are the favourite ideologies of Brits– politicalbetting.com

Which ideologies do Britons have a favourable view of?Environmentalism: 64% favourableFeminism: 56%Liberalism: 41%Socialism: 38%Conservatism: 32%Capitalism: 30%Nationalism: 29%Libertarianism: 24%Populism: 13%Communism: 10%Anarchism: 8%Fascism: 2%… pic.twitter.com/jFNiHR0GSX

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,098
    All of them invented in Manchester.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,434
    First!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,025
    Ugh.

    Block the merger now.

    Vodafone “unjustly enriched” itself at the expense of scores of vulnerable small business owners by slashing commissions to franchisees running the mobile phone group’s high street stores, according to allegations filed on Tuesday in the high court.

    A group of 62 of about 150 Vodafone franchise operators – some of whom said they had had suicidal thoughts because of the pressure exerted by the telecoms group – say the resulting personal debts have prompted them to join a £120m-plus legal claim against the company. Vodafone is valued at more than £18bn on the London Stock Exchange and has just been granted regulatory approval to create the UK’s largest mobile phone operator by merging with its rival Three.

    The court papers allege that Vodafone acted in “bad faith” by unilaterally cutting fees to its franchisees; imposed swingeing fines on them totalling thousands of pounds for seemingly minor administrative errors; and then cajoled them into taking out loans and government grants to keep their businesses afloat.

    Many said they feared losing their livelihoods, homes or life savings after running up personal debts of more than £100,000. Some franchisees claimed that regional managers told them it was only their individual stores that were in difficulty, in messaging that some complainants allege echoes one theme in the long-running Post Office scandal.

    Rikki Lear, one of the claimants who ran three Vodafone franchise stores in Kent, broke down as he told the Guardian: “They left me thinking about whether I wanted to continue to be on this earth. The only thing that kept me going was my family and my daughter.”

    The Guardian has spoken to numerous other franchisees who have relayed similar stories.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/dec/10/vodafone-store-managers-debts-franchise-operators-legal-claim
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,951
    Those are the acceptable 'isms' - those supported by and celebrated by the state.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,020
    Reform notably behind Conservatives in their support for capitalism.

    Greens with similar splits on communism/libertarianism/anarchism. Which probably feels about right for their second tier beliefs.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,502
    MarqueeMark said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    I'm 58, and the highest levels of unemployment in the UK that I can remember were under Thatcher in the 1980s.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,484
    MarqueeMark said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    Well, they've had a good dose of "conservatism" for the last 14 years and that hasn't delivered much for them.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,020
    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    I'm 58, and the highest levels of unemployment in the UK that I can remember were under Thatcher in the 1980s.
    The Thatcher reforms were needed because of a state that was fundamentally unable to service the number of public sector jobs initiated by Labour.

    Remember: every Labour government has left office with fewer jobs than it inherited.

    As will this one.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    I'm in favour of moderate versions of environmentalism, feminism, socialism, liberalism, libertarianism, capitalism and conservartism. All can be taken too far by the ideological though.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    MarqueeMark said:

    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    I'm 58, and the highest levels of unemployment in the UK that I can remember were under Thatcher in the 1980s.
    The Thatcher reforms were needed because of a state that was fundamentally unable to service the number of public sector jobs initiated by Labour.

    Remember: every Labour government has left office with fewer jobs than it inherited.

    As will this one.
    They could fix that by taking in 1m in net migration per year.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,020
    Northern_Al said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    Well, they've had a good dose of "conservatism" for the last 14 years and that hasn't delivered much for them.
    Five of those 14 were government in conjunction with the LibDems.

    The last four were massively impacted by a once in a century pandmeic and then a war in mainland Europe that caused ructions in the energy markets and led to a level of economic discord not seen since WW2.

    Anybody who thinks Labour would have done better needs to examine the past five months and respond to the question: "Really? I mean - REALLY?"
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 721
    'Ism' is the new 'ology'
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,484
    noneoftheabove said:

    I'm in favour of moderate versions of environmentalism, feminism, socialism, liberalism, libertarianism, capitalism and conservartism. All can be taken too far by the ideological though.

    That's terribly eclectic for somebody who styles themselves as "none of the above"!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    Northern_Al said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    I'm in favour of moderate versions of environmentalism, feminism, socialism, liberalism, libertarianism, capitalism and conservartism. All can be taken too far by the ideological though.

    That's terribly eclectic for somebody who styles themselves as "none of the above"!
    The political parties are full of the ideological types who take it too far....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often
  • PJHPJH Posts: 702
    edited December 10
    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    I'm 58, and the highest levels of unemployment in the UK that I can remember were under Thatcher in the 1980s.
    I'm a similar age to you, and the only sustained period of strong economic performance in my adult lifetime has been under Labour. The Conservatives have been a disaster in all of their majority governments; the coalition was slightly better but still poor.

    I don't know where they get their 'sound economy' reputation from. Going back before my time, Heath was also a disaster and my reading of history doesn't suggest that the 1950s was exactly boom time either.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,020
    Cookie said:

    All of them invented in Manchester.

    Feminism? Manchester? Hmmmm...

    "Some thinkers have sought to locate the roots of feminism in ancient Greece with Sappho (d. c. 570 BCE), or the medieval world with Hildegard of Bingen (d. 1179) or Christine de Pisan (d. 1434). Certainly Olympes de Gouge (d. 1791), Mary Wollstonecraft (d. 1797) and Jane Austen (d. 1817) are foremothers of the modern women's movement. All of these people advocated for the dignity, intelligence, and basic human potential of the female sex."

    https://www.pacificu.edu/magazine/four-waves-feminism#:~:text=Some thinkers have sought to,1434).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,020
    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    I'd like to see that "£300m boost to the economy each year" justified...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,054
    Environmentalism, feminism, liberalism, Conservatism, capitalism and Libertarianism for me. All in moderation, of course, and in recognition of the strains that each puts on others.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    I know this crap reporting is intentional but can someone decipher what is meant by Euston in this telegraph article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/10/cost-hs2s-euston-leg-balloons-more-75bn/

    Because yes rebuilding Euston is expensive when you include 3 (or 4 if we include the tunnel to Euston) projects as a single item.

    Those projects are btw

    1) rebuild Euston to cope with current passengers and not the numbers of the 1970s
    2) rebuild Euston underground to cope with passengers and get ready for crossrail 2
    3) build the new HS2 platforms
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,054
    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Do we really need carbon capture? If we go to most of our energy coming from solar and wind with a bit of nuclear base is it really a good idea to make gas, which was supposed to be our cheap alternative, even more expensive with a technology that simply isn't going to be that relevant going forward?

    This honestly strikes me as a good idea from 10-15 years ago that has simply taken too long to get off the drawing board.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    A tad surprised by how low capitalism scores given very few advocate replacing it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Do we really need carbon capture? If we go to most of our energy coming from solar and wind with a bit of nuclear base is it really a good idea to make gas, which was supposed to be our cheap alternative, even more expensive with a technology that simply isn't going to be that relevant going forward?

    This honestly strikes me as a good idea from 10-15 years ago that has simply taken too long to get off the drawing board.
    Yep it needs to be killed but there is a lot of money to be made by implementing a completely daft idea
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,951
    ...
    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Utter shite. Let's hope it can be cancelled when we get a decent Government.

    We can capture all the carbon we might need to (up to 45% of our Net Zero total infact) by sowing agricultural fields with basalt mined in the UK, with a host of other benefits too.

    The trouble with doing this is that it's a good idea. Good ideas don't have huge waste, and if there's no huge waste, nobody makes out like a bandito. See also Tidal. What Mark really needs with his Tidal lobbying is for it to be a really bad, inefficient, unreliable form of power generation that requires constent subsidy - he'd be taken up like a shot.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,054
    Penddu2 said:

    'Ism' is the new 'ology'

    https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=you've+got+an+ology+advert&mid=9F4130EB60B6EB3511569F4130EB60B6EB351156&FORM=VIRE
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,962
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Do we really need carbon capture? If we go to most of our energy coming from solar and wind with a bit of nuclear base is it really a good idea to make gas, which was supposed to be our cheap alternative, even more expensive with a technology that simply isn't going to be that relevant going forward?

    This honestly strikes me as a good idea from 10-15 years ago that has simply taken too long to get off the drawing board.
    It was a bad idea 20 years ago, but it's even worse now. I think it's the worst decision taken by the current Labour government.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,847
    edited December 10
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh.

    Block the merger now.

    Vodafone “unjustly enriched” itself at the expense of scores of vulnerable small business owners by slashing commissions to franchisees running the mobile phone group’s high street stores, according to allegations filed on Tuesday in the high court.

    A group of 62 of about 150 Vodafone franchise operators – some of whom said they had had suicidal thoughts because of the pressure exerted by the telecoms group – say the resulting personal debts have prompted them to join a £120m-plus legal claim against the company. Vodafone is valued at more than £18bn on the London Stock Exchange and has just been granted regulatory approval to create the UK’s largest mobile phone operator by merging with its rival Three.

    The court papers allege that Vodafone acted in “bad faith” by unilaterally cutting fees to its franchisees; imposed swingeing fines on them totalling thousands of pounds for seemingly minor administrative errors; and then cajoled them into taking out loans and government grants to keep their businesses afloat.

    Many said they feared losing their livelihoods, homes or life savings after running up personal debts of more than £100,000. Some franchisees claimed that regional managers told them it was only their individual stores that were in difficulty, in messaging that some complainants allege echoes one theme in the long-running Post Office scandal.

    Rikki Lear, one of the claimants who ran three Vodafone franchise stores in Kent, broke down as he told the Guardian: “They left me thinking about whether I wanted to continue to be on this earth. The only thing that kept me going was my family and my daughter.”

    The Guardian has spoken to numerous other franchisees who have relayed similar stories.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/dec/10/vodafone-store-managers-debts-franchise-operators-legal-claim

    I left Vodaphone because of their appalling customer Service. I had been with them for 35 yrs which counted for naught. Switched to Tesco mobile with European calls free and 60 gig of data. ... all for £13 a month...Tesco use O2 network which is v similar to Vodaphone's coverage.
    I am a very happy bunny... for now.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,054
    LostPassword said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Do we really need carbon capture? If we go to most of our energy coming from solar and wind with a bit of nuclear base is it really a good idea to make gas, which was supposed to be our cheap alternative, even more expensive with a technology that simply isn't going to be that relevant going forward?

    This honestly strikes me as a good idea from 10-15 years ago that has simply taken too long to get off the drawing board.
    It was a bad idea 20 years ago, but it's even worse now. I think it's the worst decision taken by the current Labour government.
    Yvette Cooper: hold my chianti.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 292
    Great to see 4 solid Labour issues topping the Poll

    A rejection of Farage fascism the icing on the cake.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,962
    Shecorns88 said:

    Great to see 4 solid Labour issues topping the Poll

    A rejection of Farage fascism the icing on the cake.

    Wait until you see how many voters think that Farage is the best politician when it comes to Environmentalism.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,913
    49% of Tories don't have a favourable view of capitalism?
    More or less 100% of Tory voters accept private enterprise as a major aspect of our society, so it really isn't possible to say what these figures mean. Each 'ism' + the actual attitude the question is getting at is obviously open to wide variance in meaning.

    Our actual ruling ideology or 'ism' - social democracy - unchanged since 1945 is not even on the list. Even Reform is ideologically (at least in its public face) straightforwardly social democrat.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    They always say this, but if the talent they are attracting are not even doing a good job (and it'd be hard to argue they are given the news over the last years) then maybe it is time to try a different approach, giving the job to 'lesser' talent who don't require as much - how much worse could they actually be?

    The boss of Thames Water has defended executive bonuses as the firm calls for a hike in customer bills to ensure its survival.

    Chris Weston said the supplier needed to offer "competitive packages" to attract talent, but the water regulator has previously said that customers must not foot the bill for "undeserved bonuses".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg4zklxgwwwo
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,098
    MarqueeMark said:

    Cookie said:

    All of them invented in Manchester.

    Feminism? Manchester? Hmmmm...

    "Some thinkers have sought to locate the roots of feminism in ancient Greece with Sappho (d. c. 570 BCE), or the medieval world with Hildegard of Bingen (d. 1179) or Christine de Pisan (d. 1434). Certainly Olympes de Gouge (d. 1791), Mary Wollstonecraft (d. 1797) and Jane Austen (d. 1817) are foremothers of the modern women's movement. All of these people advocated for the dignity, intelligence, and basic human potential of the female sex."

    https://www.pacificu.edu/magazine/four-waves-feminism#:~:text=Some thinkers have sought to,1434).
    I can't actually remember how this is justified. Something to do with the suffragettes, I think. Possibly other cities also have a claim.

    Manchester has a reasonably firm claim to communism (Engels) and also liberalism, in it's 19th century sense (any other cities have two separate concept venues named after the concept of free trade?). I think there was some claim to environmentalism, though I forget what it was.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    LostPassword said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Do we really need carbon capture? If we go to most of our energy coming from solar and wind with a bit of nuclear base is it really a good idea to make gas, which was supposed to be our cheap alternative, even more expensive with a technology that simply isn't going to be that relevant going forward?

    This honestly strikes me as a good idea from 10-15 years ago that has simply taken too long to get off the drawing board.
    It was a bad idea 20 years ago, but it's even worse now. I think it's the worst decision taken by the current Labour government.
    Seems to be treated as kind of a magic solution, the way it is trotted out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,249
    squareroot2 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ugh.

    Block the merger now.

    Vodafone “unjustly enriched” itself at the expense of scores of vulnerable small business owners by slashing commissions to franchisees running the mobile phone group’s high street stores, according to allegations filed on Tuesday in the high court.

    A group of 62 of about 150 Vodafone franchise operators – some of whom said they had had suicidal thoughts because of the pressure exerted by the telecoms group – say the resulting personal debts have prompted them to join a £120m-plus legal claim against the company. Vodafone is valued at more than £18bn on the London Stock Exchange and has just been granted regulatory approval to create the UK’s largest mobile phone operator by merging with its rival Three.

    The court papers allege that Vodafone acted in “bad faith” by unilaterally cutting fees to its franchisees; imposed swingeing fines on them totalling thousands of pounds for seemingly minor administrative errors; and then cajoled them into taking out loans and government grants to keep their businesses afloat.

    Many said they feared losing their livelihoods, homes or life savings after running up personal debts of more than £100,000. Some franchisees claimed that regional managers told them it was only their individual stores that were in difficulty, in messaging that some complainants allege echoes one theme in the long-running Post Office scandal.

    Rikki Lear, one of the claimants who ran three Vodafone franchise stores in Kent, broke down as he told the Guardian: “They left me thinking about whether I wanted to continue to be on this earth. The only thing that kept me going was my family and my daughter.”

    The Guardian has spoken to numerous other franchisees who have relayed similar stories.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/dec/10/vodafone-store-managers-debts-franchise-operators-legal-claim

    I left Vodaphone because of their appalling customer Service. I had been with them for 35 yrs which counted for naught. Switched to Tesco mobile with European calls free and 60 gig of data. ... all for £13 a month...Tesco use O2 network which is v similar to Vodaphone's coverage.
    I am a very happy bunny... for now.
    Giff Gaff seem to be the least bullshit of the current brands. They use O2 as well.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,855
    noneoftheabove said:

    A tad surprised by how low capitalism scores given very few advocate replacing it.

    I suspect the concept is less popular than the reality, mainly because the concept generally appears in public debate courtesy of those who don't like it, and when it's in the news, it's often because of capitalisms failures or excesses.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,054
    kle4 said:

    They always say this, but if the talent they are attracting are not even doing a good job (and it'd be hard to argue they are given the news over the last years) then maybe it is time to try a different approach, giving the job to 'lesser' talent who don't require as much - how much worse could they actually be?

    The boss of Thames Water has defended executive bonuses as the firm calls for a hike in customer bills to ensure its survival.

    Chris Weston said the supplier needed to offer "competitive packages" to attract talent, but the water regulator has previously said that customers must not foot the bill for "undeserved bonuses".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg4zklxgwwwo

    The artificial contrivance putting an extra £1.5bn that simply did not exist into the regulated part of the business described on here yesterday was, in my view, a fraudulent scheme. Rather than getting bonuses those responsible should be getting their collars felt.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,913
    Shecorns88 said:

    Great to see 4 solid Labour issues topping the Poll

    A rejection of Farage fascism the icing on the cake.

    Try finding in actual reform manifestos anything inconsistent with traditional social democracy - a cradle to grave state (health, education, welfare, pensions), regulated private enterprise, NATO. Populist, simplistic, small minded nationalist, uncosted, bogus nonsense. Yes. Fascism. No.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,962
    kle4 said:

    LostPassword said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Do we really need carbon capture? If we go to most of our energy coming from solar and wind with a bit of nuclear base is it really a good idea to make gas, which was supposed to be our cheap alternative, even more expensive with a technology that simply isn't going to be that relevant going forward?

    This honestly strikes me as a good idea from 10-15 years ago that has simply taken too long to get off the drawing board.
    It was a bad idea 20 years ago, but it's even worse now. I think it's the worst decision taken by the current Labour government.
    Seems to be treated as kind of a magic solution, the way it is trotted out.
    It is, for fossil fuel companies, if they can get people to pay for it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,276
    Presumably the Greens who do not have a favourable view of Environmentalism are the Trot entryists.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,276
    Shecorns88 said:

    Great to see 4 solid Labour issues topping the Poll

    A rejection of Farage fascism the icing on the cake.

    Labour seems to be currently trying to undermine its credentials as caring about the environment.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,913
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Do we really need carbon capture? If we go to most of our energy coming from solar and wind with a bit of nuclear base is it really a good idea to make gas, which was supposed to be our cheap alternative, even more expensive with a technology that simply isn't going to be that relevant going forward?

    This honestly strikes me as a good idea from 10-15 years ago that has simply taken too long to get off the drawing board.
    Yep it needs to be killed but there is a lot of money to be made by implementing a completely daft idea
    CO2 respects no boundaries. Regardless of the UK needs and CO2 output, unless the planet has mass scale carbon capture (whether this is possible remains contested) then if the science is correct we are doomed because CO2 levels will continue to rise as nothing is in place to stop it. There is no trend at all contrary to this fact.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,276
    algarkirk said:

    49% of Tories don't have a favourable view of capitalism?
    More or less 100% of Tory voters accept private enterprise as a major aspect of our society, so it really isn't possible to say what these figures mean. Each 'ism' + the actual attitude the question is getting at is obviously open to wide variance in meaning.

    Our actual ruling ideology or 'ism' - social democracy - unchanged since 1945 is not even on the list. Even Reform is ideologically (at least in its public face) straightforwardly social democrat.

    If everyone is in favour, then it isn't much of an ideology.
  • madmacsmadmacs Posts: 93
    I wonder how many people understood some of the isms. For instance Libertarianism is not a term commonly used in the UK. Interesting to see 15% of young people are anarchists.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,489
    edited December 10
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    They always say this, but if the talent they are attracting are not even doing a good job (and it'd be hard to argue they are given the news over the last years) then maybe it is time to try a different approach, giving the job to 'lesser' talent who don't require as much - how much worse could they actually be?

    The boss of Thames Water has defended executive bonuses as the firm calls for a hike in customer bills to ensure its survival.

    Chris Weston said the supplier needed to offer "competitive packages" to attract talent, but the water regulator has previously said that customers must not foot the bill for "undeserved bonuses".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg4zklxgwwwo

    The artificial contrivance putting an extra £1.5bn that simply did not exist into the regulated part of the business described on here yesterday was, in my view, a fraudulent scheme. Rather than getting bonuses those responsible should be getting their collars felt.
    Er, wrong water company I think ...
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd75nqwdpj7o
    https://www.severntrent.com/media/news-releases/response-to-bbc-panorama--9th-december/

    Edit: sorry, misread your wording I think.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,249
    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Do we really need carbon capture? If we go to most of our energy coming from solar and wind with a bit of nuclear base is it really a good idea to make gas, which was supposed to be our cheap alternative, even more expensive with a technology that simply isn't going to be that relevant going forward?

    This honestly strikes me as a good idea from 10-15 years ago that has simply taken too long to get off the drawing board.
    Yep it needs to be killed but there is a lot of money to be made by implementing a completely daft idea
    CO2 respects no boundaries. Regardless of the UK needs and CO2 output, unless the planet has mass scale carbon capture (whether this is possible remains contested) then if the science is correct we are doomed because CO2 levels will continue to rise as nothing is in place to stop it. There is no trend at all contrary to this fact.
    This isn’t carbon capture from the general atmosphere. This is from the output of CO2 generating industrial processes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,137
    Notably though only environmentalism and feminism get over 50% support.

    At least Conservatism beats Nationalism, Libertarianism, Communism, Anarchism and Fascism
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,791
    DavidL said:

    Environmentalism, feminism, liberalism, Conservatism, capitalism and Libertarianism for me. All in moderation, of course, and in recognition of the strains that each puts on others.

    That will be a rather 'busy' looking tee-shirt.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,913
    SandyRentool said:

    algarkirk said:

    49% of Tories don't have a favourable view of capitalism?
    More or less 100% of Tory voters accept private enterprise as a major aspect of our society, so it really isn't possible to say what these figures mean. Each 'ism' + the actual attitude the question is getting at is obviously open to wide variance in meaning.

    Our actual ruling ideology or 'ism' - social democracy - unchanged since 1945 is not even on the list. Even Reform is ideologically (at least in its public face) straightforwardly social democrat.

    If everyone is in favour, then it isn't much of an ideology.
    On the contrary, they are the ones that matter most, make most difference, take people by surprise when absent, and tend to be least understood. Social democracy, the effects of 2000 years of variable Christian cultures, 800 years of common law, having a monarch with a line of descent going back to 800, keeping pets, not routinely fostering out our children, taboo on incest, the long echo of ancient Athenian culture and the Roman empire. Excuse the wandering vagueness of the list.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,913
    david_herdson said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    A tad surprised by how low capitalism scores given very few advocate replacing it.

    I suspect the concept is less popular than the reality, mainly because the concept generally appears in public debate courtesy of those who don't like it, and when it's in the news, it's often because of capitalisms failures or excesses.
    It is I suppose possible to be unfavourable to everything on the list, and many more that aren't, on the simple ground that while we need to KBO, the systems available to run the world, or bits of it, are all sub optimal things, working in a sub optimal planet.

    If fact many religious views of reality think exactly that. The evidence that they are right is by no means thin.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,791
    edited December 10
    algarkirk said:

    SandyRentool said:

    algarkirk said:

    49% of Tories don't have a favourable view of capitalism?
    More or less 100% of Tory voters accept private enterprise as a major aspect of our society, so it really isn't possible to say what these figures mean. Each 'ism' + the actual attitude the question is getting at is obviously open to wide variance in meaning.

    Our actual ruling ideology or 'ism' - social democracy - unchanged since 1945 is not even on the list. Even Reform is ideologically (at least in its public face) straightforwardly social democrat.

    If everyone is in favour, then it isn't much of an ideology.
    On the contrary, they are the ones that matter most, make most difference, take people by surprise when absent, and tend to be least understood. Social democracy, the effects of 2000 years of variable Christian cultures, 800 years of common law, having a monarch with a line of descent going back to 800, keeping pets, not routinely fostering out our children, taboo on incest, the long echo of ancient Athenian culture and the Roman empire. Excuse the wandering vagueness of the list.
    If we're saying social democracy is capitalism tempered by regulation and the state providing some welfare and public services that's all of the western world, isn't it?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,479
    Andy_JS said:

    "Israel destroyed the Syrian military fleet overnight, Israel's defence minister Israel Katz has said.

    The operation appeared to be part of a broader campaign to eliminate strategic threats to Israel, and came after the IDF targeted airbases and science laboratories in Syria."

    https://news.sky.com/story/syria-latest-assad-russia-trump-israel-migrants-13265154

    Israel are having a very good 2024.

    Hope it continues into next year. Well done Israel. 🇮🇱

    Before anyone tries to make the preposterous comparison between Israel striking Syria and Russia invading Ukraine again, it's worth remembering that Ukraine was a peaceful country attacked unprovoked. Syria OTOH is literally at war with Israel and has been for over 70 years.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,353
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Israel destroyed the Syrian military fleet overnight, Israel's defence minister Israel Katz has said.

    The operation appeared to be part of a broader campaign to eliminate strategic threats to Israel, and came after the IDF targeted airbases and science laboratories in Syria."

    https://news.sky.com/story/syria-latest-assad-russia-trump-israel-migrants-13265154

    Israel are having a very good 2024.

    Hope it continues into next year. Well done Israel. 🇮🇱

    Before anyone tries to make the preposterous comparison between Israel striking Syria and Russia invading Ukraine again, it's worth remembering that Ukraine was a peaceful country attacked unprovoked. Syria OTOH is literally at war with Israel and has been for over 70 years.
    Do you support the so-called Greater Israel project?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,688
    If there's no anarcho-syndicalism listed, then it clearly isn't a real poll.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,338
    rcs1000 said:

    If there's no anarcho-syndicalism listed, then it clearly isn't a real poll.

    Oi! I quite like anarcho-syndicalism.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,479
    williamglenn said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Israel destroyed the Syrian military fleet overnight, Israel's defence minister Israel Katz has said.

    The operation appeared to be part of a broader campaign to eliminate strategic threats to Israel, and came after the IDF targeted airbases and science laboratories in Syria."

    https://news.sky.com/story/syria-latest-assad-russia-trump-israel-migrants-13265154

    Israel are having a very good 2024.

    Hope it continues into next year. Well done Israel. 🇮🇱

    Before anyone tries to make the preposterous comparison between Israel striking Syria and Russia invading Ukraine again, it's worth remembering that Ukraine was a peaceful country attacked unprovoked. Syria OTOH is literally at war with Israel and has been for over 70 years.
    Do you support the so-called Greater Israel project?
    No.

    I do support our allies right to peace and security though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,353
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    williamglenn said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Israel destroyed the Syrian military fleet overnight, Israel's defence minister Israel Katz has said.

    The operation appeared to be part of a broader campaign to eliminate strategic threats to Israel, and came after the IDF targeted airbases and science laboratories in Syria."

    https://news.sky.com/story/syria-latest-assad-russia-trump-israel-migrants-13265154

    Israel are having a very good 2024.

    Hope it continues into next year. Well done Israel. 🇮🇱

    Before anyone tries to make the preposterous comparison between Israel striking Syria and Russia invading Ukraine again, it's worth remembering that Ukraine was a peaceful country attacked unprovoked. Syria OTOH is literally at war with Israel and has been for over 70 years.
    Do you support the so-called Greater Israel project?
    No.

    I do support our allies right to peace and security though.
    What if it's the only way that Israel's security can be secured?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,688
    MarqueeMark said:

    Cookie said:

    All of them invented in Manchester.

    Feminism? Manchester? Hmmmm...

    "Some thinkers have sought to locate the roots of feminism in ancient Greece with Sappho (d. c. 570 BCE), or the medieval world with Hildegard of Bingen (d. 1179) or Christine de Pisan (d. 1434). Certainly Olympes de Gouge (d. 1791), Mary Wollstonecraft (d. 1797) and Jane Austen (d. 1817) are foremothers of the modern women's movement. All of these people advocated for the dignity, intelligence, and basic human potential of the female sex."

    https://www.pacificu.edu/magazine/four-waves-feminism#:~:text=Some thinkers have sought to,1434).
    Errr, hello, what about World of Warcraft?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,688
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Do we really need carbon capture? If we go to most of our energy coming from solar and wind with a bit of nuclear base is it really a good idea to make gas, which was supposed to be our cheap alternative, even more expensive with a technology that simply isn't going to be that relevant going forward?

    This honestly strikes me as a good idea from 10-15 years ago that has simply taken too long to get off the drawing board.
    That's spot on, except for the part about it being a good idea 10 to 15 years ago.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,688
    williamglenn said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    williamglenn said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Israel destroyed the Syrian military fleet overnight, Israel's defence minister Israel Katz has said.

    The operation appeared to be part of a broader campaign to eliminate strategic threats to Israel, and came after the IDF targeted airbases and science laboratories in Syria."

    https://news.sky.com/story/syria-latest-assad-russia-trump-israel-migrants-13265154

    Israel are having a very good 2024.

    Hope it continues into next year. Well done Israel. 🇮🇱

    Before anyone tries to make the preposterous comparison between Israel striking Syria and Russia invading Ukraine again, it's worth remembering that Ukraine was a peaceful country attacked unprovoked. Syria OTOH is literally at war with Israel and has been for over 70 years.
    Do you support the so-called Greater Israel project?
    No.

    I do support our allies right to peace and security though.
    What if it's the only way that Israel's security can be secured?
    If you piss enough people off, then surely the only path to security is to be the only country left in the world.

    (Which reminds me of a famous Blackadder sketch.)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064
    Been playing Path of Exile 2 today and it's absolute great. Feels like the Elden Ring moment for ARPGs. So much better than Diablo 4 and it's still just in early access so the final release will be amazing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,688
    maxh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    If there's no anarcho-syndicalism listed, then it clearly isn't a real poll.

    Oi! I quite like anarcho-syndicalism.
    Exactly my point. In any genuine poll, anarcho-syndicalism would be there.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,951
    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    If there's no anarcho-syndicalism listed, then it clearly isn't a real poll.

    Oi! I quite like anarcho-syndicalism.
    Exactly my point. In any genuine poll, anarcho-syndicalism would be there.
    Did you see 'im repressing me?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,913
    edited December 10
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    SandyRentool said:

    algarkirk said:

    49% of Tories don't have a favourable view of capitalism?
    More or less 100% of Tory voters accept private enterprise as a major aspect of our society, so it really isn't possible to say what these figures mean. Each 'ism' + the actual attitude the question is getting at is obviously open to wide variance in meaning.

    Our actual ruling ideology or 'ism' - social democracy - unchanged since 1945 is not even on the list. Even Reform is ideologically (at least in its public face) straightforwardly social democrat.

    If everyone is in favour, then it isn't much of an ideology.
    On the contrary, they are the ones that matter most, make most difference, take people by surprise when absent, and tend to be least understood. Social democracy, the effects of 2000 years of variable Christian cultures, 800 years of common law, having a monarch with a line of descent going back to 800, keeping pets, not routinely fostering out our children, taboo on incest, the long echo of ancient Athenian culture and the Roman empire. Excuse the wandering vagueness of the list.
    If we're saying social democracy is capitalism tempered by regulation and the state providing some welfare and public services that's all of the western world, isn't it?
    Longer descriptions are available fleshing out the big ticket items. 'Some welfare' does not describe social democracy. The deal is a form of state guaranteed cradle to grave provision with a high degree of compulsion, commonality and attempted equalisation in education, welfare, state pensions, and health. This is combined with a large but heavily controlled private, capitalist sector. It is high tax because it has to be.

    It does not necessarily embrace liberalism or internationalism but does embrace the capacity to get rid of a government and elect another. The western version includes defence capability in alliance which in practice is aimed at defence against non-social democrats.

    In the west I would not describe USA as social democrat. The rest seem to be on the whole. Except in the USA it is massively supported by most people; the only serious objections are when those who pay most in and get least out start making a fuss. And when it stops working. At that point we want more, not less, social democracy. Like right now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,396
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Do we really need carbon capture? If we go to most of our energy coming from solar and wind with a bit of nuclear base is it really a good idea to make gas, which was supposed to be our cheap alternative, even more expensive with a technology that simply isn't going to be that relevant going forward?

    This honestly strikes me as a good idea from 10-15 years ago that has simply taken too long to get off the drawing board.
    As proposed, it's not even a practical idea, let alone a good one.
    (See various comments by @Richard_Tyndall .)
    And in economic terms, insane.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,847
    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    If there's no anarcho-syndicalism listed, then it clearly isn't a real poll.

    Oi! I quite like anarcho-syndicalism.
    Exactly my point. In any genuine poll, anarcho-syndicalism would be there.
    If you asked 100 people what it meant 99% would be likely to give a gallic shrug.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,396
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Israel destroyed the Syrian military fleet overnight, Israel's defence minister Israel Katz has said.

    The operation appeared to be part of a broader campaign to eliminate strategic threats to Israel, and came after the IDF targeted airbases and science laboratories in Syria."

    https://news.sky.com/story/syria-latest-assad-russia-trump-israel-migrants-13265154

    Israel are having a very good 2024.

    Hope it continues into next year. Well done Israel. 🇮🇱

    Before anyone tries to make the preposterous comparison between Israel striking Syria and Russia invading Ukraine again, it's worth remembering that Ukraine was a peaceful country attacked unprovoked. Syria OTOH is literally at war with Israel and has been for over 70 years.
    Not as preposterous as your comment.
    The two countries have had a territorial accord since 1974; since when the border has not been moved.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,396
    Monarchism seems to be the favourite of around 30% of GOP voters.

    Morning Consult 2028 GOP Presidential Polling
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1866292381718315037
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,485
    Malmesbury said:

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Do we really need carbon capture? If we go to most of our energy coming from solar and wind with a bit of nuclear base is it really a good idea to make gas, which was supposed to be our cheap alternative, even more expensive with a technology that simply isn't going to be that relevant going forward?

    This honestly strikes me as a good idea from 10-15 years ago that has simply taken too long to get off the drawing board.
    Yep it needs to be killed but there is a lot of money to be made by implementing a completely daft idea
    CO2 respects no boundaries. Regardless of the UK needs and CO2 output, unless the planet has mass scale carbon capture (whether this is possible remains contested) then if the science is correct we are doomed because CO2 levels will continue to rise as nothing is in place to stop it. There is no trend at all contrary to this fact.
    This isn’t carbon capture from the general atmosphere. This is from the output of CO2 generating industrial processes.
    There might be a role for things like cement production, which has CO2 as a waste product, but for energy production, solar/wind/battery scales up well enough to largely solve the problem.

    The 20 billion is conditional, right? So with luck, it won't have to pay out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,396
    There's also an ayahusca link to the insurance exec shooting.
    https://x.com/IterIntellectus/status/1866471620505907342
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,502
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    It would be cheaper to just build a regular gas fired power station, and to plant some trees.

    Given that over time the amount of demand for gas should diminish, the effective cost of CCS is insane.
    Would it? I'd like to see the maths for that.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,485
    Nigelb said:

    Monarchism seems to be the favourite of around 30% of GOP voters.

    Morning Consult 2028 GOP Presidential Polling
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1866292381718315037

    As low as that? Because that seems to be where they are going.

    And not one of your dutiful British monarchies, let alone a bicycling Scandi monarch.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,010
    Reform-ers seem confused !
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,137
    edited December 10
    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    SandyRentool said:

    algarkirk said:

    49% of Tories don't have a favourable view of capitalism?
    More or less 100% of Tory voters accept private enterprise as a major aspect of our society, so it really isn't possible to say what these figures mean. Each 'ism' + the actual attitude the question is getting at is obviously open to wide variance in meaning.

    Our actual ruling ideology or 'ism' - social democracy - unchanged since 1945 is not even on the list. Even Reform is ideologically (at least in its public face) straightforwardly social democrat.

    If everyone is in favour, then it isn't much of an ideology.
    On the contrary, they are the ones that matter most, make most difference, take people by surprise when absent, and tend to be least understood. Social democracy, the effects of 2000 years of variable Christian cultures, 800 years of common law, having a monarch with a line of descent going back to 800, keeping pets, not routinely fostering out our children, taboo on incest, the long echo of ancient Athenian culture and the Roman empire. Excuse the wandering vagueness of the list.
    If we're saying social democracy is capitalism tempered by regulation and the state providing some welfare and public services that's all of the western world, isn't it?
    Longer descriptions are available fleshing out the big ticket items. 'Some welfare' does not describe social democracy. The deal is a form of state guaranteed cradle to grave provision with a high degree of compulsion, commonality and attempted equalisation in education, welfare, state pensions, and health. This is combined with a large but heavily controlled private, capitalist sector. It is high tax because it has to be.

    It does not necessarily embrace liberalism or internationalism but does embrace the capacity to get rid of a government and elect another. The western version includes defence capability in alliance which in practice is aimed at defence against non-social democrats.

    In the west I would not describe USA as social democrat. The rest seem to be on the whole. Except in the USA it is massively supported by most people; the only serious objections are when those who pay most in and get least out start making a fuss. And when it stops working. At that point we want more, not less, social democracy. Like right now.
    Only the Nordic countries and arguably France of western nations can be said to be social democratic.

    The rest are what would have been Christian Democratic and now liberal centre right to some degree getting more capitalist in Switzerland, Australia and to an exent Canada and peaking in what is basically a full on capitalist system in the USA tempered with a few patches of state intervention like Medicare and Medicaid and foodstamps
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,137
    Nigelb said:

    Monarchism seems to be the favourite of around 30% of GOP voters.

    Morning Consult 2028 GOP Presidential Polling
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1866292381718315037

    Trump Jr still only on a 3rd of the vote though, level with VP elect Vance for 2028 GOP nomination
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,020
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    ...

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Utter shite. Let's hope it can be cancelled when we get a decent Government.

    We can capture all the carbon we might need to (up to 45% of our Net Zero total infact) by sowing agricultural fields with basalt mined in the UK, with a host of other benefits too.

    The trouble with doing this is that it's a good idea. Good ideas don't have huge waste, and if there's no huge waste, nobody makes out like a bandito. See also Tidal. What Mark really needs with his Tidal lobbying is for it to be a really bad, inefficient, unreliable form of power generation that requires constent subsidy - he'd be taken up like a shot.
    Tidal's problem is that it answers all the government's issues in one easy to implement bundle.

    Cheaper, faster to develop, huge project life, no fuels to acquire, no waste to dispose of, complete predictablity of power generation.

    Popular.

    Government can't see what is right under its nose.

    Yet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,396
    Stuartinromford said:

    Nigelb said:

    Monarchism seems to be the favourite of around 30% of GOP voters.

    Morning Consult 2028 GOP Presidential Polling
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1866292381718315037

    As low as that? Because that seems to be where they are going.

    And not one of your dutiful British monarchies, let alone a bicycling Scandi monarch.
    TBF, Jnr is not exactly the greatest argument for monarchical succession.
    I'm quite surprised it was so high.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,361
    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,246
    kle4 said:

    They always say this, but if the talent they are attracting are not even doing a good job (and it'd be hard to argue they are given the news over the last years) then maybe it is time to try a different approach, giving the job to 'lesser' talent who don't require as much - how much worse could they actually be?

    The boss of Thames Water has defended executive bonuses as the firm calls for a hike in customer bills to ensure its survival.

    Chris Weston said the supplier needed to offer "competitive packages" to attract talent, but the water regulator has previously said that customers must not foot the bill for "undeserved bonuses".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg4zklxgwwwo

    Ever wonder why the polling for capitalism isn't great? It beats me 🤔
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,020
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Monarchism seems to be the favourite of around 30% of GOP voters.

    Morning Consult 2028 GOP Presidential Polling
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1866292381718315037

    Trump Jr still only on a 3rd of the vote though, level with VP elect Vance for 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump causes more inflation with his tariffs, the Republicans can wave goodbye - whoever stands. A Trump-badged successor will be even more toxic.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,020
    MattW said:

    Reform-ers seem confused !

    Reform are the Andy Pipkin of politics.

    "Do you want it? Are you sure?"

    "Yeah....

    I don't like it."
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,082
    maxh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    If there's no anarcho-syndicalism listed, then it clearly isn't a real poll.

    Oi! I quite like anarcho-syndicalism.
    The Liberal Party under Jo Grimond toyed with elements of anarcho-syndicalism through the support of workers co-operatives and the Spanish experiments with industrial democracy.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,246
    Nigel_Foremain said:

    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.

    Quite a few Commies amongst the 18-24.

    One of Foxjr2's housemates is a communist.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,153
    MarqueeMark said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Monarchism seems to be the favourite of around 30% of GOP voters.

    Morning Consult 2028 GOP Presidential Polling
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1866292381718315037

    Trump Jr still only on a 3rd of the vote though, level with VP elect Vance for 2028 GOP nomination
    If Trump causes more inflation with his tariffs, the Republicans can wave goodbye - whoever stands. A Trump-badged successor will be even more toxic.
    Why is Donald Trump not in the polling?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,020
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    They always say this, but if the talent they are attracting are not even doing a good job (and it'd be hard to argue they are given the news over the last years) then maybe it is time to try a different approach, giving the job to 'lesser' talent who don't require as much - how much worse could they actually be?

    The boss of Thames Water has defended executive bonuses as the firm calls for a hike in customer bills to ensure its survival.

    Chris Weston said the supplier needed to offer "competitive packages" to attract talent, but the water regulator has previously said that customers must not foot the bill for "undeserved bonuses".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg4zklxgwwwo

    Ever wonder why the polling for capitalism isn't great? It beats me 🤔
    The worst means of delivering growth and jobs. Apart from all the others...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,913
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    They always say this, but if the talent they are attracting are not even doing a good job (and it'd be hard to argue they are given the news over the last years) then maybe it is time to try a different approach, giving the job to 'lesser' talent who don't require as much - how much worse could they actually be?

    The boss of Thames Water has defended executive bonuses as the firm calls for a hike in customer bills to ensure its survival.

    Chris Weston said the supplier needed to offer "competitive packages" to attract talent, but the water regulator has previously said that customers must not foot the bill for "undeserved bonuses".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg4zklxgwwwo

    Ever wonder why the polling for capitalism isn't great? It beats me 🤔
    Capitalism isn't really a very good description for running regulated monopolies with a guaranteed compulsory customer base and fixed prices and zero possibility of the service ceasing to be provided if it fails.

    And 'epic fail' doesn't do justice to the capacity to not succeed in this enterprise.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,246
    edited December 10
    What was it that attracted Aidan Burley to Reform?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/aidan-burley-nazi-party-nigel-farage-reform-b2661975.html
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,010
    edited December 10
    There was an informative segment yesterday in the Ukraine the Latest describing parallels between recent Right Wing movements in the USA, and their predecessors in the first half of the 20C. A conversation with Jacob Heilbrunn, Editor of the National Interest magazine.

    Examples: HL Mencken being an enthusiast for Kaiser Bill, William Randolph Hearst being a booster for Mussolini into the mainstream, and McCarthy trying to pin some war crimes by US Army soldiers onto 'Jewish lawyers'.

    Editorially, they are generally approving of Reagan, and disapproving of Trump.

    Not an area that I knew much about.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HAuSFAfJog&t=1753s
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,098
    Foxy said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.

    Quite a few Commies amongst the 18-24.

    One of Foxjr2's housemates is a communist.
    That's the age group for whom communism is an attractive theoretical concept rather than a horrific reality afflicting huge populations of the world.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 292
    Nigelb said:

    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Israel destroyed the Syrian military fleet overnight, Israel's defence minister Israel Katz has said.

    The operation appeared to be part of a broader campaign to eliminate strategic threats to Israel, and came after the IDF targeted airbases and science laboratories in Syria."

    https://news.sky.com/story/syria-latest-assad-russia-trump-israel-migrants-13265154

    Israel are having a very good 2024.

    Hope it continues into next year. Well done Israel. 🇮🇱

    Before anyone tries to make the preposterous comparison between Israel striking Syria and Russia invading Ukraine again, it's worth remembering that Ukraine was a peaceful country attacked unprovoked. Syria OTOH is literally at war with Israel and has been for over 70 years.
    Not as preposterous as your comment.
    The two countries have had a territorial accord since 1974; since when the border has not been moved.
    If you define good as the genocide they have committed in Gaza and Lebanon they you are complicit in the approval of genocide.

    The genocide perpetrated by hanas, hezbollah cannot be ignored nor accepted.

    Two wrongs never make a right.

    All perpetrators should be hunted down and dealt with.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,010
    MattW said:

    There was an informative segment yesterday in the Ukraine the Latest describing parallels between recent Right Wing movements in the USA, and their predecessors in the first half of the 20C. A conversation with Jacob Heilbrunn, Editor of the National Interest magazine.

    Examples: HL Mencken being an enthusiast for Kaiser Bill, William Randolph Hearst being a booster for Mussolini into the mainstream, and McCarthy trying to pin some war crimes by US Army soldiers onto 'Jewish lawyers'.

    Editorially, they are generally approving of Reagan, and disapproving of Trump.

    Not an area that I knew much about.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HAuSFAfJog&t=1753s

    Correction. I misquoted one.

    Examples: HL Mencken being an enthusiast for Kaiser Bill, William Randolph Hearst being a booster for Mussolini into the mainstream, and McCarthy trying to pin some war crimes by US Army soldiers onto 'Jewish lawyers'.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,338
    squareroot2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    If there's no anarcho-syndicalism listed, then it clearly isn't a real poll.

    Oi! I quite like anarcho-syndicalism.
    Exactly my point. In any genuine poll, anarcho-syndicalism would be there.
    If you asked 100 people what it meant 99% would be likely to give a gallic shrug.
    Which is a shocking indictment of us as a society. What on earth do they teach in schools these days if not anarcho-syndicalism?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,246
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.

    Quite a few Commies amongst the 18-24.

    One of Foxjr2's housemates is a communist.
    That's the age group for whom communism is an attractive theoretical concept rather than a horrific reality afflicting huge populations of the world.
    Sure but it doesn't bode well.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,249
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.

    Quite a few Commies amongst the 18-24.

    One of Foxjr2's housemates is a communist.
    That's the age group for whom communism is an attractive theoretical concept rather than a horrific reality afflicting huge populations of the world.
    Sure but it doesn't bode well.
    Twas ever thus. See the story of Socrates pupils and the Thirty Tyrants.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,558
    madmacs said:

    I wonder how many people understood some of the isms. For instance Libertarianism is not a term commonly used in the UK. Interesting to see 15% of young people are anarchists.

    The vast majority of those will be like Rick in the Young Ones...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,924
    JosiasJessop said:

    madmacs said:

    I wonder how many people understood some of the isms. For instance Libertarianism is not a term commonly used in the UK. Interesting to see 15% of young people are anarchists.

    The vast majority of those will be like Rick in the Young Ones...
    Played by actors?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,146
    edited December 10
    BartholomewRoberts said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Israel destroyed the Syrian military fleet overnight, Israel's defence minister Israel Katz has said.

    The operation appeared to be part of a broader campaign to eliminate strategic threats to Israel, and came after the IDF targeted airbases and science laboratories in Syria."

    https://news.sky.com/story/syria-latest-assad-russia-trump-israel-migrants-13265154

    Israel are having a very good 2024.

    Hope it continues into next year. Well done Israel. 🇮🇱

    Eh?

    They are more than a year into an unnecessary war facilitated by their government's staggering complacency and incompetence.

    Their international reputation has been trashed by war crimes in Gaza.

    Their formerly flourishing economy is in the toilet.

    Their Prime Minister's trial for corruption started today and his indictment for war crimes was handed down a few weeks ago.

    An erratic man who bears a grudge against him was just elected US President.

    Their government is held together by a few cranks and fanatics, but may be about to split apart on the draft dodging issue.

    Peace with Arab neighbours has receded further into the distance.

    They may have scored some tactical successes, and have avoided the complete wipeout that always threatens, but 2024 has been by any reasonable standards a very bad year for Israel. And 2025 may be worse.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,558
    JosiasJessop said:

    madmacs said:

    I wonder how many people understood some of the isms. For instance Libertarianism is not a term commonly used in the UK. Interesting to see 15% of young people are anarchists.

    The vast majority of those will be like Rick in the Young Ones...
    "Rik Mayall as Rick, studying sociology and/or domestic sciences (depending on the episode); hypocritical, radical, attention-seeking, and a self-proclaimed anarchist.
    ...
    According to Ben Elton, Mayall's character was influenced by the "try-hard wanna-be Leftie" typically found on university campuses."
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