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Environmentalism, feminism, liberalism, and socialism are the favourite ideologies of Brits

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Comments

  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,338
    Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Israel destroyed the Syrian military fleet overnight, Israel's defence minister Israel Katz has said.

    The operation appeared to be part of a broader campaign to eliminate strategic threats to Israel, and came after the IDF targeted airbases and science laboratories in Syria."

    https://news.sky.com/story/syria-latest-assad-russia-trump-israel-migrants-13265154

    Israel are having a very good 2024.

    Hope it continues into next year. Well done Israel. 🇮🇱

    Eh?

    They are more than a year into an unnecessary war facilitated by their government's staggering complacency and incompetence.

    Their international reputation has been trashed by war crimes in Gaza.

    Their formerly flourishing economy is in the toilet.

    Their Prime Minister's trial for corruption started today and his indictment for war crimes was handed down a few weeks ago.

    An erratic man who bears a grudge against him was just elected US President.

    Their government is held together by a few cranks and fanatics, but may be about to split apart on the draft dodging issue.

    Peace with Arab neighbours has receded further into the distance.

    They may have scored some tactical successes, and have avoided the complete wipeout that always threatens, but 2024 has been by any reasonable standards a very bad year for Israel. And 2025 may be worse.
    I think at this point Bart is just trolling for attention.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,112
    My take on it...

    Liberalism forms my core political philosophy.

    Capitalism, socialism and environmentalism are all important when not taken to their extremes. A balance needs to be struck to achieve prosperity as a nation without resulting in the destitution of either unfortunate people or the environment.

    Feminism is just one of many logical conclusions of liberalism.

    Conservatism, nationalism, populism, fascism, libertarianism, communism, anarchism I would happily do without.
  • madmacs said:

    I wonder how many people understood some of the isms. For instance Libertarianism is not a term commonly used in the UK. Interesting to see 15% of young people are anarchists.

    The vast majority of those will be like Rick in the Young Ones...
    "Rik Mayall as Rick, studying sociology and/or domestic sciences (depending on the episode); hypocritical, radical, attention-seeking, and a self-proclaimed anarchist.
    ...
    According to Ben Elton, Mayall's character was influenced by the "try-hard wanna-be Leftie" typically found on university campuses."
    Only Rik's third best character,

    Second best was as Flashheart in Blackadder

    Best of the best was as Richie in Bottom!
  • madmacs said:

    I wonder how many people understood some of the isms. For instance Libertarianism is not a term commonly used in the UK. Interesting to see 15% of young people are anarchists.

    The vast majority of those will be like Rick in the Young Ones...
    "Rik Mayall as Rick, studying sociology and/or domestic sciences (depending on the episode); hypocritical, radical, attention-seeking, and a self-proclaimed anarchist.
    ...
    According to Ben Elton, Mayall's character was influenced by the "try-hard wanna-be Leftie" typically found on university campuses."
    Only Rik's third best character,

    Second best was as Flashheart in Blackadder

    Best of the best was as Richie in Bottom!
    No, no, no, no, no. Colin Grigson from Bad News!
  • BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,132

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    Those of us in the private sector need to dig deep.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,112

    No, no, no, no, no. Colin Grigson from Bad News!

    I saw them live on tour
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,107
    Good evening, everybody. I don't think I care for anything that has become an -ism, really.

    Maybe catechism?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    A ludicrous poll which doesn’t even give the option of neo-Nazism
  • Foxy said:

    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.

    Quite a few Commies amongst the 18-24.

    One of Foxjr2's housemates is a communist.
    More likely he is posturing as something he thinks is 'radical'.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,048
    edited December 2024
    Those ministerial red leather folders: £30 in the House of Commons shop, but to you Minister, £600.

    "sources suggest the extra expense is justified to enhance the image of the government."

    Can anyone here shed any light on how this is in any way enhancing the image of the government? And not making them look like a bunch of vain twats who know the value of nothing?

    Maybe they should have got Lord Alli to buy them?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vrw9pd16do
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,940
    AnneJGP said:

    Good evening, everybody. I don't think I care for anything that has become an -ism, really.

    Maybe catechism?

    Prisms are sort of cool.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,975

    ...

    eek said:

    Teesworks has just announced the most expensive power station in the world

    https://x.com/TeesworksUK/status/1866512113209917568

    Gas with carbon capture as we ideally move to renewable, storage and nuclear. Yes we will still need gas at times but not that often

    Utter shite. Let's hope it can be cancelled when we get a decent Government.

    We can capture all the carbon we might need to (up to 45% of our Net Zero total infact) by sowing agricultural fields with basalt mined in the UK, with a host of other benefits too.

    The trouble with doing this is that it's a good idea. Good ideas don't have huge waste, and if there's no huge waste, nobody makes out like a bandito. See also Tidal. What Mark really needs with his Tidal lobbying is for it to be a really bad, inefficient, unreliable form of power generation that requires constent subsidy - he'd be taken up like a shot.
    Tidal's problem is that it answers all the government's issues in one easy to implement bundle.

    Cheaper, faster to develop, huge project life, no fuels to acquire, no waste to dispose of, complete predictablity of power generation.

    Popular.

    Government can't see what is right under its nose.

    Yet.
    The next Government is formed of Farage and Badenoch. I hope you get it in front of both, and good luck.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,940
    Leon said:

    A ludicrous poll which doesn’t even give the option of neo-Nazism

    They've charged you 90 quid for a haircut again haven't they?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307
    edited December 2024

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
  • Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
  • Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    Labour's policy for next 4 years, not mine nor by the looks Kemi Badenoch and Mel Stride's by GE 2029
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
  • Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    Depends on what happens in the rest of the economy, but probably enough to stop recruitment getting worse, and not such an insult that there are a load of strikes.

    Good management to get the process going nice and early as well. I think it's the case that the last government didn't even get round to making a recommendation to the review bodies.

    They really had stopped trying to govern by the end.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
    Yes under Sunak !!!!
  • Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Israel destroyed the Syrian military fleet overnight, Israel's defence minister Israel Katz has said.

    The operation appeared to be part of a broader campaign to eliminate strategic threats to Israel, and came after the IDF targeted airbases and science laboratories in Syria."

    https://news.sky.com/story/syria-latest-assad-russia-trump-israel-migrants-13265154

    Israel are having a very good 2024.

    Hope it continues into next year. Well done Israel. 🇮🇱

    Eh?

    They are more than a year into an unnecessary war facilitated by their government's staggering complacency and incompetence.

    Their international reputation has been trashed by war crimes in Gaza.

    Their formerly flourishing economy is in the toilet.

    Their Prime Minister's trial for corruption started today and his indictment for war crimes was handed down a few weeks ago.

    An erratic man who bears a grudge against him was just elected US President.

    Their government is held together by a few cranks and fanatics, but may be about to split apart on the draft dodging issue.

    Peace with Arab neighbours has receded further into the distance.

    They may have scored some tactical successes, and have avoided the complete wipeout that always threatens, but 2024 has been by any reasonable standards a very bad year for Israel. And 2025 may be worse.
    It started off with claims that It would be bad for Israel as they would suffer enormous losses in Gaza and they that they would be unable to fight multiple enemies.

    The claims are now that is is bad for Israel because they inflicted so many casualties on their enemies while suffering so few themselves.

    Interesting shift.
  • When I see Feminism I think Germaine Greer or Naomi Wolf, who are a bit chippy and have a men problem.

    I wouldn't rate it as a positive, but it's certainly an ideology you're expected to endorse. I expect it gets virtually all women and a good chunk of liberal men.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
    Yes under Sunak !!!!
    And likely to accelerate in the second half of the year if you read the article.

    In any case, they are productivity increases.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,048
    maxh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    maxh said:

    rcs1000 said:

    If there's no anarcho-syndicalism listed, then it clearly isn't a real poll.

    Oi! I quite like anarcho-syndicalism.
    Exactly my point. In any genuine poll, anarcho-syndicalism would be there.
    If you asked 100 people what it meant 99% would be likely to give a gallic shrug.
    Which is a shocking indictment of us as a society. What on earth do they teach in schools these days if not anarcho-syndicalism?
    It's on Tik-Tok, so no excuse, kids....

    https://www.tiktok.com/search?q=anarcho syndicalism&t=1733858881020
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,940
    I find it rather disappointing that Israel, the US, and maybe others find the need to be so aggressive in allowing the dust to settle in Syria. There was never a great hope that the Syrian people would collectively ask themselves what the hell they've been doing for the last 100 years, but I think that the external actors have really eliminated any chance of that.

    Could Israel have held its hand out and said 'look, we can be friends, and together we can live in a region of peace and prosperity'? Clearly yes, but I doubt they ever considered it. 99% chance of failure, but it doesn't hurt to try.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
    Those are measures of outputs.

    You need to compare with inputs to get the productivity changes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,048
    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    That's what 14 years of funding the Labour Party has got the trade unions. 0.2% in real terms.

    What a bargain, eh?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402
    Leon said:

    A ludicrous poll which doesn’t even give the option of neo-Nazism

    Also why feminism but not sexism?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,048
    edited December 2024
    Omnium said:

    I find it rather disappointing that Israel, the US, and maybe others find the need to be so aggressive in allowing the dust to settle in Syria. There was never a great hope that the Syrian people would collectively ask themselves what the hell they've been doing for the last 100 years, but I think that the external actors have really eliminated any chance of that.

    Could Israel have held its hand out and said 'look, we can be friends, and together we can live in a region of peace and prosperity'? Clearly yes, but I doubt they ever considered it. 99% chance of failure, but it doesn't hurt to try.

    How well do you think it would have gone if Israelis had held their hand out to Hamas on October 7th, 2023?

    I think it may have hurt those who did. As they had it chopped off with a machete.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    Fortunately there have been:

    https://bsky.app/profile/rentouljohn.bsky.social/post/3larflnb4ek2e
    Those are measures of outputs.

    You need to compare with inputs to get the productivity changes.
    Did you actually read the article?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,940

    Omnium said:

    I find it rather disappointing that Israel, the US, and maybe others find the need to be so aggressive in allowing the dust to settle in Syria. There was never a great hope that the Syrian people would collectively ask themselves what the hell they've been doing for the last 100 years, but I think that the external actors have really eliminated any chance of that.

    Could Israel have held its hand out and said 'look, we can be friends, and together we can live in a region of peace and prosperity'? Clearly yes, but I doubt they ever considered it. 99% chance of failure, but it doesn't hurt to try.

    How well do you think it would have gone if Israelis had held their hand out to Hamas on October 7th, 2023?
    That's a ludicrous comparison, and you know it is.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    I think we should retrospectively link pensioners benefit to public sector wages rolled back to 2010

    Same goes for MPs pay
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,615
    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    That's what 14 years of funding the Labour Party has got the trade unions. 0.2% in real terms.

    What a bargain, eh?
    Make your mind up. Is Reeves in hock to the Unions or ignoring them?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,048
    edited December 2024
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    That's what 14 years of funding the Labour Party has got the trade unions. 0.2% in real terms.

    What a bargain, eh?
    Make your mind up. Is Reeves in hock to the Unions or ignoring them?
    I rather think it is the unions who need to make their mind up....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,048
    edited December 2024

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,089
    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    Substantially more than many private sector workers
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 731
    edited December 2024
    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    Substantially more than many private sector workers
    Substantially less than many private sector workers too
  • Utter woke nonsense!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Fair play to Heathrow and TfL

    Airside at terminal 2 to INSIDE my Camden flat in 1 hour 12 minutes

    Sadiq khan is a great mayor fully deserving of his 3rd term
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,345

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    Yeah it sounds like total bollocks
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,338

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    That's what 14 years of funding the Labour Party has got the trade unions. 0.2% in real terms.

    What a bargain, eh?
    It might be worth the unions doing a quick comparison with the alternative option for government, though (see fig 1): https://ifs.org.uk/articles/what-has-happened-teacher-pay-england
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,089
    Stereodog said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    Substantially more than many private sector workers
    Substantially less than many private sector workers too
    I suspect if you remove min wage workers where the payrise is due to government mandate and board level executives then average private sector pay rises fall far short of 2.8 % . Indeed among all my friends that aren't on min wage I am the only one that got a payrise for next year so far....a whopping 1%
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307
    Stereodog said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    Substantially more than many private sector workers
    Substantially less than many private sector workers too
    Annual average total earnings growth for the private sector was 4.5% in July to September 2024.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/november2024#:~:text=Annual average total earnings growth for the private sector was,, when it was 3.9%.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,615

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    It is such a humongous amount that it seems impossible. But his family did rule the country for decades, and there's all the drugs business as well. My *guess* would be that it's a bogus figure, but he got out a lot.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited December 2024
    Coincidentally I’ve just finished Escobar by Roberto Escobar

    It’s fascinating on many levels; one is: the sheer difficulty of handling vast amounts of cash. In a discrete way. Every year they expected to lose 10% of it to rot, fire or rats

    When they buried it they had to bury it with coffee because apparently cash starts to smell badly and strongly after six months. Coffee disguises that

    I know digital banking has moved on a tad since El Patron but there is literally no way Assad “moved $135 billion” unless he managed to bring several of Saudi Arabia’s major oilfields in his carry on luggage
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    The most high stakes “your money or your life” in history?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,048
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    I find it rather disappointing that Israel, the US, and maybe others find the need to be so aggressive in allowing the dust to settle in Syria. There was never a great hope that the Syrian people would collectively ask themselves what the hell they've been doing for the last 100 years, but I think that the external actors have really eliminated any chance of that.

    Could Israel have held its hand out and said 'look, we can be friends, and together we can live in a region of peace and prosperity'? Clearly yes, but I doubt they ever considered it. 99% chance of failure, but it doesn't hurt to try.

    How well do you think it would have gone if Israelis had held their hand out to Hamas on October 7th, 2023?
    That's a ludicrous comparison, and you know it is.
    Well you started with the ludicrous stuff...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,999
    ...

    Those ministerial red leather folders: £30 in the House of Commons shop, but to you Minister, £600.

    "sources suggest the extra expense is justified to enhance the image of the government."

    Can anyone here shed any light on how this is in any way enhancing the image of the government? And not making them look like a bunch of vain twats who know the value of nothing?

    Maybe they should have got Lord Alli to buy them?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vrw9pd16do

    Don't the Government know any of those fast track Tories with an AliExpress account?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,132

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.
    To get real terms increases in output and consequently pay there needs to be increases in productivity.
    It’s fallen at the first hurdle in that case.
  • Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited December 2024

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    It is such a humongous amount that it seems impossible. But his family did rule the country for decades, and there's all the drugs business as well. My *guess* would be that it's a bogus figure, but he got out a lot.
    It’s preposterously wrong. I’d be surprised and impressed if he managed to move a billion

    He’s not known for having precious art. You’d need plane loads of gold and cash and diamonds to make a billion let alone “135 billion”. And - as has been asked - where did he get it?!
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,783
    Prince of Wales: I do not own a Christmas jumper

    Bet he won't be lacking them on Boxing Day
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,940

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    I find it rather disappointing that Israel, the US, and maybe others find the need to be so aggressive in allowing the dust to settle in Syria. There was never a great hope that the Syrian people would collectively ask themselves what the hell they've been doing for the last 100 years, but I think that the external actors have really eliminated any chance of that.

    Could Israel have held its hand out and said 'look, we can be friends, and together we can live in a region of peace and prosperity'? Clearly yes, but I doubt they ever considered it. 99% chance of failure, but it doesn't hurt to try.

    How well do you think it would have gone if Israelis had held their hand out to Hamas on October 7th, 2023?
    That's a ludicrous comparison, and you know it is.
    Well you started with the ludicrous stuff...
    Come along. I said there was a small opportunity, you slammed it down with a mostly irrelevant extreme example. I think you have to concede on this one.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited December 2024

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    It is such a humongous amount that it seems impossible. But his family did rule the country for decades, and there's all the drugs business as well. My *guess* would be that it's a bogus figure, but he got out a lot.
    I reckon someone has sat down and worked out; theoretically, how much the Assad family has siphoned out of Syria over all the decades, at a maximum. That could be tens of billions

    They’ve then thought: well we can’t find it, ergo the optician has taken it to moscow
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,615
    Leon said:

    Coincidentally I’ve just finished Escobar by Roberto Escobar

    It’s fascinating on many levels; one is: the sheer difficulty of handling vast amounts of cash. In a discrete way. Every year they expected to lose 10% of it to rot, fire or rats

    When they buried it they had to bury it with coffee because apparently cash starts to smell badly and strongly after six months. Coffee disguises that

    I know digital banking has moved on a tad since El Patron but there is literally no way Assad “moved $135 billion” unless he managed to bring several of Saudi Arabia’s major oilfields in his carry on luggage

    Electronically, if it's already held in various accounts? You may not even need to move it, just know the account numbers and what's required to access it. I know Russia's no longer on SWIFT.

    (As you may tell, this is not my field of 'expertise'...)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,104
    Foxy said:

    Stereodog said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    Substantially more than many private sector workers
    Substantially less than many private sector workers too
    Annual average total earnings growth for the private sector was 4.5% in July to September 2024.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/november2024#:~:text=Annual average total earnings growth for the private sector was,, when it was 3.9%.
    I'm public sector and have been offered 2.something per cent. Without getting into the rights and wrongs of what we *deserve*, obviously, union members are looking at this offer and what train drivers and junior doctors have been offered and thinking a) we're not accepting that, and b) strikes will push the offer up.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Coincidentally I’ve just finished Escobar by Roberto Escobar

    It’s fascinating on many levels; one is: the sheer difficulty of handling vast amounts of cash. In a discrete way. Every year they expected to lose 10% of it to rot, fire or rats

    When they buried it they had to bury it with coffee because apparently cash starts to smell badly and strongly after six months. Coffee disguises that

    I know digital banking has moved on a tad since El Patron but there is literally no way Assad “moved $135 billion” unless he managed to bring several of Saudi Arabia’s major oilfields in his carry on luggage

    Electronically, if it's already held in various accounts? You may not even need to move it, just know the account numbers and what's required to access it. I know Russia's no longer on SWIFT.

    (As you may tell, this is not my field of 'expertise'...)
    But then he hasn’t moved it to Moscow. It was already in his private bank accounts

    Tho I am still gravely suspicious of £135bn. That would make him one of the richest men in the world. Top 5 or so

    Syria never generated that kind of money as an economy in good days or bad
  • Omnium said:

    I find it rather disappointing that Israel, the US, and maybe others find the need to be so aggressive in allowing the dust to settle in Syria. There was never a great hope that the Syrian people would collectively ask themselves what the hell they've been doing for the last 100 years, but I think that the external actors have really eliminated any chance of that.

    Could Israel have held its hand out and said 'look, we can be friends, and together we can live in a region of peace and prosperity'? Clearly yes, but I doubt they ever considered it. 99% chance of failure, but it doesn't hurt to try.

    Here here
  • Those ministerial red leather folders: £30 in the House of Commons shop, but to you Minister, £600.

    "sources suggest the extra expense is justified to enhance the image of the government."

    Can anyone here shed any light on how this is in any way enhancing the image of the government? And not making them look like a bunch of vain twats who know the value of nothing?

    Maybe they should have got Lord Alli to buy them?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vrw9pd16do

    £300 a pop in the context of overall government spending?

    If anyone from the BBC News department is reading this, the Middle East stuff is news; the American who shot another American is not news because this is not America; expensive stationery is not news.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,999
    edited December 2024
    Good Conservative PPB on C4. Labour killing poor old people by removing WFA from pensioners. You couldn't make up more egregious political incompetence even if you tried.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,783
    The cost to taxpayers of the SNP’s new disability benefit has spiralled by hundreds of millions of pounds as a result of the “light-touch” checks on claimants, official forecasters have warned.

    The Scottish Fiscal Commission (SFC) said that only two per cent of reviews of Adult Disability Payment (ADP) claims resulted in “awards being ended or decreased.”

    This compared with 16 per cent of payments being ended following reviews of Personal Independence Payment (PIP) claims, the equivalent benefit in England and Wales.

    The commission noted that the Scottish Government had “introduced a policy of light-touch reviews which allows clients to ‘simply tick a box’ to confirm that their circumstances have not changed”.


    Light touch checks by a soft touch administration
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,338

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,902
    Luigi Mangione shouts on his way into court:

    "It's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people and their lived experience"

    Christ. "Lived experience". Just for that phrase, Supermax.
  • Foxy said:

    Stereodog said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy said:

    BBC News - Government recommends 2.8% pay rise for public sector
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxdnexrvv8o

    Just let's wait and see how long it is until Reeves rolls over to the tune of their Union paymasters

    So 0.2% in real terms.

    Substantially less than the Triple Lock for pensioners.
    Substantially more than many private sector workers
    Substantially less than many private sector workers too
    Annual average total earnings growth for the private sector was 4.5% in July to September 2024.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/november2024#:~:text=Annual average total earnings growth for the private sector was,, when it was 3.9%.
    Indeed and public sector workers don't get bonuses and are constrained by pay scales based on grade. It doesn't matter how good I am at my particular role, I'm not going to earn any more money unless I get a promotion to a different role.
  • Those ministerial red leather folders: £30 in the House of Commons shop, but to you Minister, £600.

    "sources suggest the extra expense is justified to enhance the image of the government."

    Can anyone here shed any light on how this is in any way enhancing the image of the government? And not making them look like a bunch of vain twats who know the value of nothing?

    Maybe they should have got Lord Alli to buy them?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vrw9pd16do

    £300 a pop in the context of overall government spending?

    If anyone from the BBC News department is reading this, the Middle East stuff is news; the American who shot another American is not news because this is not America; expensive stationery is not news.
    This is where you are wrong.

    The Government pissing away our taxes is definitely newsworthy, even if its not shocking news, it should be.

    Our taxes should be cut until the Government can't afford to waste £600 on 2 folders.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,615
    Leon said:

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    It is such a humongous amount that it seems impossible. But his family did rule the country for decades, and there's all the drugs business as well. My *guess* would be that it's a bogus figure, but he got out a lot.
    It’s preposterously wrong. I’d be surprised and impressed if he managed to move a billion

    He’s not known for having precious art. You’d need plane loads of gold and cash and diamonds to make a billion let alone “135 billion”. And - as has been asked - where did he get it?!
    This vid claims the family is worth $16 billion, 200 tons of gold, and 5 billion Euros. That seems more... reasonable.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoiTe5p9FRA

    The US estimated $1-2 billion, though they claim that is an inexact estimate.... But his cousin's family alone is believed to have $1 billion.

    But this site estimates much higher:

    "When you add up the wealth of Bashar al-Assad and his extended family, the numbers are mind-blowing. Estimates suggest that the al-Assad regime's total wealth could be between $60 billion and $122 billion when you factor in their real estate, oil, art, and cash reserves.
    ...
    Back in April 2017, Spanish police managed to seize $740 million in assets from one of Bashar's uncles."

    https://www.finance-monthly.com/2024/12/bashar-al-assad-and-family-control-massive-private-fortune/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701
    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    Woke is bankrupting councils. If they didn't employ equality officers, they'd all run healthy surpluses, council tax would be zero, and pigs would have developed interstellar transport.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,615
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Coincidentally I’ve just finished Escobar by Roberto Escobar

    It’s fascinating on many levels; one is: the sheer difficulty of handling vast amounts of cash. In a discrete way. Every year they expected to lose 10% of it to rot, fire or rats

    When they buried it they had to bury it with coffee because apparently cash starts to smell badly and strongly after six months. Coffee disguises that

    I know digital banking has moved on a tad since El Patron but there is literally no way Assad “moved $135 billion” unless he managed to bring several of Saudi Arabia’s major oilfields in his carry on luggage

    Electronically, if it's already held in various accounts? You may not even need to move it, just know the account numbers and what's required to access it. I know Russia's no longer on SWIFT.

    (As you may tell, this is not my field of 'expertise'...)
    But then he hasn’t moved it to Moscow. It was already in his private bank accounts

    Tho I am still gravely suspicious of £135bn. That would make him one of the richest men in the world. Top 5 or so

    Syria never generated that kind of money as an economy in good days or bad
    There have been accusations that a certain V. Putin is the richest man in the world, despite earning only about $100-150k a year.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/no-one-figure-russian-president-100100129.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    While I'm sure Assad plundered Syria, I don't believe he can possibly have stolen so much: the Syrian economy simply isn't big enough to steal $135 billion from. And, in particular, it doesn't have lots of oil income the ruling family can siphon (often with the help of Western oil companies.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Coincidentally I’ve just finished Escobar by Roberto Escobar

    It’s fascinating on many levels; one is: the sheer difficulty of handling vast amounts of cash. In a discrete way. Every year they expected to lose 10% of it to rot, fire or rats

    When they buried it they had to bury it with coffee because apparently cash starts to smell badly and strongly after six months. Coffee disguises that

    I know digital banking has moved on a tad since El Patron but there is literally no way Assad “moved $135 billion” unless he managed to bring several of Saudi Arabia’s major oilfields in his carry on luggage

    Electronically, if it's already held in various accounts? You may not even need to move it, just know the account numbers and what's required to access it. I know Russia's no longer on SWIFT.

    (As you may tell, this is not my field of 'expertise'...)
    But then he hasn’t moved it to Moscow. It was already in his private bank accounts

    Tho I am still gravely suspicious of £135bn. That would make him one of the richest men in the world. Top 5 or so

    Syria never generated that kind of money as an economy in good days or bad
    There have been accusations that a certain V. Putin is the richest man in the world, despite earning only about $100-150k a year.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/no-one-figure-russian-president-100100129.html
    He (personally) owns 58 St James's Street.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,345
    Leon said:

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    It is such a humongous amount that it seems impossible. But his family did rule the country for decades, and there's all the drugs business as well. My *guess* would be that it's a bogus figure, but he got out a lot.
    It’s preposterously wrong. I’d be surprised and impressed if he managed to move a billion

    He’s not known for having precious art. You’d need plane loads of gold and cash and diamonds to make a billion let alone “135 billion”. And - as has been asked - where did he get it?!
    The stories that make some sense are that, over the decades, the family stole single digits billions from Syria. And that they used the money to invest abroad.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701

    Leon said:

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    It is such a humongous amount that it seems impossible. But his family did rule the country for decades, and there's all the drugs business as well. My *guess* would be that it's a bogus figure, but he got out a lot.
    It’s preposterously wrong. I’d be surprised and impressed if he managed to move a billion

    He’s not known for having precious art. You’d need plane loads of gold and cash and diamonds to make a billion let alone “135 billion”. And - as has been asked - where did he get it?!
    The stories that make some sense are that, over the decades, the family stole single digits billions from Syria. And that they used the money to invest abroad.
    Sure: but that kind of money leaves traces.

    If I heard that Assad was a large investor through shell companies of some large hedge funds, could I believe it? Yes.

    But $135bn is fuck loads of money. That would be 270 half a billion dollar cheques. And that does not check out.

    Also.

    He certainly doesn't have $135bn waiting to be "wired", because $135bn would account for the entire balance sheets of the pretty much all the banks in the region.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,457
    Foxy said:

    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.

    Quite a few Commies amongst the 18-24.

    One of Foxjr2's housemates is a communist.
    Banker ?

    One Trump supporter in the rally I went to in Michigan told me he supported Trump because he was fighting Marxism. When I asked him what he meant by Marxism he said the “power of Wall Street”
    https://x.com/MacaesBruno/status/1866288669851840570
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,783
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Coincidentally I’ve just finished Escobar by Roberto Escobar

    It’s fascinating on many levels; one is: the sheer difficulty of handling vast amounts of cash. In a discrete way. Every year they expected to lose 10% of it to rot, fire or rats

    When they buried it they had to bury it with coffee because apparently cash starts to smell badly and strongly after six months. Coffee disguises that

    I know digital banking has moved on a tad since El Patron but there is literally no way Assad “moved $135 billion” unless he managed to bring several of Saudi Arabia’s major oilfields in his carry on luggage

    Electronically, if it's already held in various accounts? You may not even need to move it, just know the account numbers and what's required to access it. I know Russia's no longer on SWIFT.

    (As you may tell, this is not my field of 'expertise'...)
    But then he hasn’t moved it to Moscow. It was already in his private bank accounts

    Tho I am still gravely suspicious of £135bn. That would make him one of the richest men in the world. Top 5 or so

    Syria never generated that kind of money as an economy in good days or bad
    There have been accusations that a certain V. Putin is the richest man in the world, despite earning only about $100-150k a year.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/no-one-figure-russian-president-100100129.html
    He (personally) owns 58 St James's Street.
    Of MI5's 'Double Cross Committee' ?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,499
    Leon said:

    Coincidentally I’ve just finished Escobar by Roberto Escobar

    It’s fascinating on many levels; one is: the sheer difficulty of handling vast amounts of cash. In a discrete way. Every year they expected to lose 10% of it to rot, fire or rats

    When they buried it they had to bury it with coffee because apparently cash starts to smell badly and strongly after six months. Coffee disguises that

    I know digital banking has moved on a tad since El Patron but there is literally no way Assad “moved $135 billion” unless he managed to bring several of Saudi Arabia’s major oilfields in his carry on luggage

    Oh dear. Call yourself a writer?
    Discreet, not discrete.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,902
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.

    Quite a few Commies amongst the 18-24.

    One of Foxjr2's housemates is a communist.
    Banker ?

    One Trump supporter in the rally I went to in Michigan told me he supported Trump because he was fighting Marxism. When I asked him what he meant by Marxism he said the “power of Wall Street”
    https://x.com/MacaesBruno/status/1866288669851840570
    Ah, deutchmarksism.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,345
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    It is such a humongous amount that it seems impossible. But his family did rule the country for decades, and there's all the drugs business as well. My *guess* would be that it's a bogus figure, but he got out a lot.
    It’s preposterously wrong. I’d be surprised and impressed if he managed to move a billion

    He’s not known for having precious art. You’d need plane loads of gold and cash and diamonds to make a billion let alone “135 billion”. And - as has been asked - where did he get it?!
    The stories that make some sense are that, over the decades, the family stole single digits billions from Syria. And that they used the money to invest abroad.
    Sure: but that kind of money leaves traces.

    If I heard that Assad was a large investor through shell companies of some large hedge funds, could I believe it? Yes.

    But $135bn is fuck loads of money. That would be 270 half a billion dollar cheques. And that does not check out.

    Also.

    He certainly doesn't have $135bn waiting to be "wired", because $135bn would account for the entire balance sheets of the pretty much all the banks in the region.
    Yeah.

    Any money the family had stolen would already be abroad. In hard currency investments. I mean, say you had $2 Billion. Where would you invest it in Syria? No

    Sure, you’d have a few hundred million as a float to run things… but your main pile of money?
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,338

    Those ministerial red leather folders: £30 in the House of Commons shop, but to you Minister, £600.

    "sources suggest the extra expense is justified to enhance the image of the government."

    Can anyone here shed any light on how this is in any way enhancing the image of the government? And not making them look like a bunch of vain twats who know the value of nothing?

    Maybe they should have got Lord Alli to buy them?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vrw9pd16do

    £300 a pop in the context of overall government spending?

    If anyone from the BBC News department is reading this, the Middle East stuff is news; the American who shot another American is not news because this is not America; expensive stationery is not news.
    This is where you are wrong.

    The Government pissing away our taxes is definitely newsworthy, even if its not shocking news, it should be.

    Our taxes should be cut until the Government can't afford to waste £600 on 2 folders.
    I'm not sure that's a prescription for effective government.

    Blimey some of the commentary on here tonight is poor.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,783
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    It is such a humongous amount that it seems impossible. But his family did rule the country for decades, and there's all the drugs business as well. My *guess* would be that it's a bogus figure, but he got out a lot.
    It’s preposterously wrong. I’d be surprised and impressed if he managed to move a billion

    He’s not known for having precious art. You’d need plane loads of gold and cash and diamonds to make a billion let alone “135 billion”. And - as has been asked - where did he get it?!
    The stories that make some sense are that, over the decades, the family stole single digits billions from Syria. And that they used the money to invest abroad.
    Sure: but that kind of money leaves traces.

    If I heard that Assad was a large investor through shell companies of some large hedge funds, could I believe it? Yes.

    But $135bn is fuck loads of money. That would be 270 half a billion dollar cheques. And that does not check out.

    Also.

    He certainly doesn't have $135bn waiting to be "wired", because $135bn would account for the entire balance sheets of the pretty much all the banks in the region.
    "270 half a billion dollar cheques" eh ... ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,615
    India commissions a Russian-built ship that uses Ukrainian engines...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/12/10/india-navy-russia-warship-ukraine-engines/
  • Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Israel destroyed the Syrian military fleet overnight, Israel's defence minister Israel Katz has said.

    The operation appeared to be part of a broader campaign to eliminate strategic threats to Israel, and came after the IDF targeted airbases and science laboratories in Syria."

    https://news.sky.com/story/syria-latest-assad-russia-trump-israel-migrants-13265154

    Israel are having a very good 2024.

    Hope it continues into next year. Well done Israel. 🇮🇱

    Eh?

    They are more than a year into an unnecessary war facilitated by their government's staggering complacency and incompetence.

    Their international reputation has been trashed by war crimes in Gaza.

    Their formerly flourishing economy is in the toilet.

    Their Prime Minister's trial for corruption started today and his indictment for war crimes was handed down a few weeks ago.

    An erratic man who bears a grudge against him was just elected US President.

    Their government is held together by a few cranks and fanatics, but may be about to split apart on the draft dodging issue.

    Peace with Arab neighbours has receded further into the distance.

    They may have scored some tactical successes, and have avoided the complete wipeout that always threatens, but 2024 has been by any reasonable standards a very bad year for Israel. And 2025 may be worse.
    I said that 2024 has been a good year, not that 2023 or prior was, so their prior complacency which I scorn doesn't fall under the purview of 2024.

    The "war crimes" bullshit is shite spouted by their perpetual critics who wouldn't care less if Israel got wiped off the map, many of whom think they should never have been on the map in the first place.

    Netanyahu should be on trial. Netanyahu is not Israel.

    Meanwhile back in the real world, Hamas has been smashed, its leadership in Gaza dead or trounced.

    Hezbollah have been whacked hard and have surrendered to end that conflict.

    Iran are on the ropes.

    Syria has fallen.

    And they've taken out Syria's military with very little loss in return.

    That's an astonishingly successful 12 months. Even if it pisses off those who'd rather Israel roll over and play dead than take the fight to her sworn enemies.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701
    edited December 2024

    Leon said:

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    It is such a humongous amount that it seems impossible. But his family did rule the country for decades, and there's all the drugs business as well. My *guess* would be that it's a bogus figure, but he got out a lot.
    It’s preposterously wrong. I’d be surprised and impressed if he managed to move a billion

    He’s not known for having precious art. You’d need plane loads of gold and cash and diamonds to make a billion let alone “135 billion”. And - as has been asked - where did he get it?!
    This vid claims the family is worth $16 billion, 200 tons of gold, and 5 billion Euros. That seems more... reasonable.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoiTe5p9FRA

    The US estimated $1-2 billion, though they claim that is an inexact estimate.... But his cousin's family alone is believed to have $1 billion.

    But this site estimates much higher:

    "When you add up the wealth of Bashar al-Assad and his extended family, the numbers are mind-blowing. Estimates suggest that the al-Assad regime's total wealth could be between $60 billion and $122 billion when you factor in their real estate, oil, art, and cash reserves.
    ...
    Back in April 2017, Spanish police managed to seize $740 million in assets from one of Bashar's uncles."

    https://www.finance-monthly.com/2024/12/bashar-al-assad-and-family-control-massive-private-fortune/
    It's worth quoting the entire paragraph:

    "Bashar al-Assad's personal net worth is pegged at around $1.5 billion, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Over the years, there have been claims that during peaceful times, al-Assad and his close-knit group of family and friends managed to amass a fortune that represents about three-quarters of Syria's entire economy. They have stakes in various sectors like real estate, factories, energy plants, and licenses for foreign goods. However, turning those assets into quick cash or making a fast escape isn’t exactly straightforward.

    When you add up the wealth of Bashar al-Assad and his extended family, the numbers are mind-blowing. Estimates suggest that the al-Assad regime's total wealth could be between $60 billion and $122 billion when you factor in their real estate, oil, art, and cash reserves."

    So... he could be worth $1.5bn or $122bn.

    There's also this disclaimer: "there have been claims".

    And most of this additional wealth appears to be tied up in the Syrian economy. And I'm not sure the new Syrian rulers are going to be that keen on letting him keep it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.

    Quite a few Commies amongst the 18-24.

    One of Foxjr2's housemates is a communist.
    Banker ?

    One Trump supporter in the rally I went to in Michigan told me he supported Trump because he was fighting Marxism. When I asked him what he meant by Marxism he said the “power of Wall Street”
    https://x.com/MacaesBruno/status/1866288669851840570
    No, he's a cook in a middle market restaurant, part of generation rent.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,701
    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.

    Quite a few Commies amongst the 18-24.

    One of Foxjr2's housemates is a communist.
    Banker ?

    One Trump supporter in the rally I went to in Michigan told me he supported Trump because he was fighting Marxism. When I asked him what he meant by Marxism he said the “power of Wall Street”
    https://x.com/MacaesBruno/status/1866288669851840570
    Ah, deutchmarksism.
    Very good.
  • maxh said:

    Those ministerial red leather folders: £30 in the House of Commons shop, but to you Minister, £600.

    "sources suggest the extra expense is justified to enhance the image of the government."

    Can anyone here shed any light on how this is in any way enhancing the image of the government? And not making them look like a bunch of vain twats who know the value of nothing?

    Maybe they should have got Lord Alli to buy them?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vrw9pd16do

    £300 a pop in the context of overall government spending?

    If anyone from the BBC News department is reading this, the Middle East stuff is news; the American who shot another American is not news because this is not America; expensive stationery is not news.
    This is where you are wrong.

    The Government pissing away our taxes is definitely newsworthy, even if its not shocking news, it should be.

    Our taxes should be cut until the Government can't afford to waste £600 on 2 folders.
    I'm not sure that's a prescription for effective government.

    Blimey some of the commentary on here tonight is poor.
    Only spending money you need to spend, rather than pissing it away, absolutely is a prescription for effective government.

    If the Government is so flush with cash that it can piss away £600 on a pair of folders and that's no big deal to its defenders, then taxes are far too high. We need to starve the beast until it looks at £300 folders and says responds with "are you having a laugh, we can't afford that!"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,999
    ...
    Cookie said:

    Good Conservative PPB on C4. Labour killing poor old people by removing WFA from pensioners. You couldn't make up more egregious political incompetence even if you tried.

    I'm quite disappointed by the Tories positioning on this. WFA was a Gordon Brown bung. It wasn't good government. The country can't afford bungs. And there is so much else to go at the government on.
    The Conservatives have been rather clever here. The optics of old comrades dying of hypothermia in their beds is horrific.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,345
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    It is such a humongous amount that it seems impossible. But his family did rule the country for decades, and there's all the drugs business as well. My *guess* would be that it's a bogus figure, but he got out a lot.
    It’s preposterously wrong. I’d be surprised and impressed if he managed to move a billion

    He’s not known for having precious art. You’d need plane loads of gold and cash and diamonds to make a billion let alone “135 billion”. And - as has been asked - where did he get it?!
    This vid claims the family is worth $16 billion, 200 tons of gold, and 5 billion Euros. That seems more... reasonable.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoiTe5p9FRA

    The US estimated $1-2 billion, though they claim that is an inexact estimate.... But his cousin's family alone is believed to have $1 billion.

    But this site estimates much higher:

    "When you add up the wealth of Bashar al-Assad and his extended family, the numbers are mind-blowing. Estimates suggest that the al-Assad regime's total wealth could be between $60 billion and $122 billion when you factor in their real estate, oil, art, and cash reserves.
    ...
    Back in April 2017, Spanish police managed to seize $740 million in assets from one of Bashar's uncles."

    https://www.finance-monthly.com/2024/12/bashar-al-assad-and-family-control-massive-private-fortune/
    It's worth quoting the entire paragraph:

    "Bashar al-Assad's personal net worth is pegged at around $1.5 billion, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Over the years, there have been claims that during peaceful times, al-Assad and his close-knit group of family and friends managed to amass a fortune that represents about three-quarters of Syria's entire economy. They have stakes in various sectors like real estate, factories, energy plants, and licenses for foreign goods. However, turning those assets into quick cash or making a fast escape isn’t exactly straightforward.

    When you add up the wealth of Bashar al-Assad and his extended family, the numbers are mind-blowing. Estimates suggest that the al-Assad regime's total wealth could be between $60 billion and $122 billion when you factor in their real estate, oil, art, and cash reserves."

    So... he could be worth $1.5bn or $122bn.

    There's also this disclaimer: "there have been claims".

    And most of this additional wealth appears to be tied up in the Syrian economy. And I'm not sure the new Syrian rulers are going to be that keen on letting him keep it.
    The big number just sounds like Putinism - the economy as a personal toy.

    The 2 billion or whatever is the actual money he has stolen and salted away.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,338
    edited December 2024

    Leon said:

    Coincidentally I’ve just finished Escobar by Roberto Escobar

    It’s fascinating on many levels; one is: the sheer difficulty of handling vast amounts of cash. In a discrete way. Every year they expected to lose 10% of it to rot, fire or rats

    When they buried it they had to bury it with coffee because apparently cash starts to smell badly and strongly after six months. Coffee disguises that

    I know digital banking has moved on a tad since El Patron but there is literally no way Assad “moved $135 billion” unless he managed to bring several of Saudi Arabia’s major oilfields in his carry on luggage

    Oh dear. Call yourself a writer?
    Discreet, not discrete.
    Not necessarily. Escobar might have had lots of little discrete packets moving around Colombia.

    ETA: or, come to think of it, big discrete packets.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,402
    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,104

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Coincidentally I’ve just finished Escobar by Roberto Escobar

    It’s fascinating on many levels; one is: the sheer difficulty of handling vast amounts of cash. In a discrete way. Every year they expected to lose 10% of it to rot, fire or rats

    When they buried it they had to bury it with coffee because apparently cash starts to smell badly and strongly after six months. Coffee disguises that

    I know digital banking has moved on a tad since El Patron but there is literally no way Assad “moved $135 billion” unless he managed to bring several of Saudi Arabia’s major oilfields in his carry on luggage

    Electronically, if it's already held in various accounts? You may not even need to move it, just know the account numbers and what's required to access it. I know Russia's no longer on SWIFT.

    (As you may tell, this is not my field of 'expertise'...)
    But then he hasn’t moved it to Moscow. It was already in his private bank accounts

    Tho I am still gravely suspicious of £135bn. That would make him one of the richest men in the world. Top 5 or so

    Syria never generated that kind of money as an economy in good days or bad
    There have been accusations that a certain V. Putin is the richest man in the world, despite earning only about $100-150k a year.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/no-one-figure-russian-president-100100129.html
    This has got me wondering. Do despots ever get to enjoy the fruits of their despotism? Some do - but many end up killed, or have to keep working because they die. And being a despot is hard and unpleasant work - there's all sorts of unpleasant shit you need to do. The only reason you'd do it should really be to squirrel away unimaginable wealth for the benefit of a long and comfortable retirement. How many get to enjoy that? At best, Assad is going to be hanging out in Russia.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,099
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Allegedly...

    "Bashar al-Assad illegally transferred $135 billion to Russia."

    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1866566102689497572

    If true, how would he do that? Through international banking?

    Which Russia are, er, stealing off him taxing him on...

    That should help the ruble. For a bit.
    According to the World Bank, the peak GDP of Syria was some $68 Billion dollars, in 2011. Before it collapsed due to civil war. Some suggest to as low as $8 Billion, others $20 Billion.

    Where would Assad have got multiples of the GDP of his entire country, in transportable form?
    It is such a humongous amount that it seems impossible. But his family did rule the country for decades, and there's all the drugs business as well. My *guess* would be that it's a bogus figure, but he got out a lot.
    It’s preposterously wrong. I’d be surprised and impressed if he managed to move a billion

    He’s not known for having precious art. You’d need plane loads of gold and cash and diamonds to make a billion let alone “135 billion”. And - as has been asked - where did he get it?!
    This vid claims the family is worth $16 billion, 200 tons of gold, and 5 billion Euros. That seems more... reasonable.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoiTe5p9FRA

    The US estimated $1-2 billion, though they claim that is an inexact estimate.... But his cousin's family alone is believed to have $1 billion.

    But this site estimates much higher:

    "When you add up the wealth of Bashar al-Assad and his extended family, the numbers are mind-blowing. Estimates suggest that the al-Assad regime's total wealth could be between $60 billion and $122 billion when you factor in their real estate, oil, art, and cash reserves.
    ...
    Back in April 2017, Spanish police managed to seize $740 million in assets from one of Bashar's uncles."

    https://www.finance-monthly.com/2024/12/bashar-al-assad-and-family-control-massive-private-fortune/
    It's worth quoting the entire paragraph:

    "Bashar al-Assad's personal net worth is pegged at around $1.5 billion, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Over the years, there have been claims that during peaceful times, al-Assad and his close-knit group of family and friends managed to amass a fortune that represents about three-quarters of Syria's entire economy. They have stakes in various sectors like real estate, factories, energy plants, and licenses for foreign goods. However, turning those assets into quick cash or making a fast escape isn’t exactly straightforward.

    When you add up the wealth of Bashar al-Assad and his extended family, the numbers are mind-blowing. Estimates suggest that the al-Assad regime's total wealth could be between $60 billion and $122 billion when you factor in their real estate, oil, art, and cash reserves."

    So... he could be worth $1.5bn or $122bn.

    There's also this disclaimer: "there have been claims".

    And most of this additional wealth appears to be tied up in the Syrian economy. And I'm not sure the new Syrian rulers are going to be that keen on letting him keep it.
    But surely as an innovator, founder and wealth-creator he should get to keep it? The new regime said they wanted a free-market economy - so seems only right.

    I mean, if he doesn't get to keep it... then he's got an awful lot of floors to sweep in the Kremlin to pay his keep.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,450

    madmacs said:

    I wonder how many people understood some of the isms. For instance Libertarianism is not a term commonly used in the UK. Interesting to see 15% of young people are anarchists.

    The vast majority of those will be like Rick in the Young Ones...
    "Rik Mayall as Rick, studying sociology and/or domestic sciences (depending on the episode); hypocritical, radical, attention-seeking, and a self-proclaimed anarchist.
    ...
    According to Ben Elton, Mayall's character was influenced by the "try-hard wanna-be Leftie" typically found on university campuses."
    Only Rik's third best character,

    Second best was as Flashheart in Blackadder

    Best of the best was as Richie in Bottom!
    No, no, no, no, no. Colin Grigson from Bad News!
    Kevin Turvey, surely?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,307
    carnforth said:

    Luigi Mangione shouts on his way into court:

    "It's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people and their lived experience"

    Christ. "Lived experience". Just for that phrase, Supermax.

    Can anyone else think of a person driven mad by ayahuasca, and wound up spouting hackneyed clichés?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,099

    Leon said:

    Coincidentally I’ve just finished Escobar by Roberto Escobar

    It’s fascinating on many levels; one is: the sheer difficulty of handling vast amounts of cash. In a discrete way. Every year they expected to lose 10% of it to rot, fire or rats

    When they buried it they had to bury it with coffee because apparently cash starts to smell badly and strongly after six months. Coffee disguises that

    I know digital banking has moved on a tad since El Patron but there is literally no way Assad “moved $135 billion” unless he managed to bring several of Saudi Arabia’s major oilfields in his carry on luggage

    Oh dear. Call yourself a writer?
    Discreet, not discrete.
    Well, no-one else will.

    🥁
  • eekeek Posts: 28,624
    edited December 2024

    maxh said:

    Those under 49 need a good dose of "socialism" - especially losing their jobs - to get an understanding of what it actually delivers.

    The good news is that we’re not having socialism.
    The dubious equal pay claims bankrupting councils and businesses are something worse.
    You think that's what's bankrupting councils?!
    It certainly doesn't help. The law is absurd.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/birmingham-council-set-to-pay-out-over-250m-in-equal-pay-claim-sources-say

    Birmingham Council is poised to pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to women workers including teaching assistants, carers, caterers and cleaners in order to finally settle the thousands of equal pay claims that have pushed the local authority to the brink of bankruptcy.
    It really isn't absurd in this case.

    Mrs Eek was at a council that went through single status to solve this issue back in 1994 and the other council she worked at in 1992 was starting the process as she left to return to uni in 1993. It's taken until today for Birmingham council to do the same issue and resolve the pay issues.

    Edit since then none of the other 4 councils she's worked at has had any problem with paying women the same as men.. In fact the only issue she currently has is the in her current council the council doesn't feel the need to pay for the professional qualification you only use at an inquiry to prove that you are qualified to say that you aren't talking out of your arse.

    Guess what she, has such an inquiry coming soon. The option is pay up or someone else is standing up on the day.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,104
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting that there are an apparent twice as many fascists among the young than in the above 65s. It is a relief that fascism is such a low percentage across all parties, even the Reform voters, though their populist nationalism might be described as fascism-lite.

    Quite a few Commies amongst the 18-24.

    One of Foxjr2's housemates is a communist.
    That's the age group for whom communism is an attractive theoretical concept rather than a horrific reality afflicting huge populations of the world.
    Sure but it doesn't bode well.
    No, I quite agree. I can explain but I can't approve.
    Even when communism existed, we were relatively equivocal in this country about its awfulness. I remember going to the museum of communism in Prague in the 90s, which pulled no punches about how evil and how useless the system was, and thinking how we just wouldn't be that direct in Britain. Communism always retained a bit of a cachet even during the worst years of it globally.
This discussion has been closed.