By far the best option remaining to them. Well done to Badenoch. I don’t know how well she’ll go down with the country at large, but they’ve dodged a bullet with Bobby J.
Just goes to show, the Conservatives still have an instinct for a winner... In theory Bobby J ticked all the right preconceived notions of Tory members but still a majority of members went for Kemi.
Kemi is a fascinating politician and certainly was the right choice
Politics just got a whole lot more interesting
And fantastic the conservatives have elected the 4th female leader and first black woman
A result that seems to have united PB as being the right result.
If only because the one person worse than Bad Enoch is Paint over Mickey Mouse Jenrick.
It will be interesting to see what the key message is that she tries to communicate to the public.
The problem as Sunak found is that without Brexit there is little to unite the 2019 coalition.
Going after Reform voters will not work in my view.
Hence why I said she needs to re-orient the party towards “working people” under the age of 60. There are votes to be won there.
Going after the grey vote is understandably tempting, it votes more after all, and can really punish you if they take against you. But you do need to make inroads lower down if you are to have a longterm chance. Isn't that what the Canadian Tory leader has done?
That's advice for left and right btw, so I hope it is acceptable.
As best I can work out the Canadian guy has gone after housing.
Badenoch would be wise to do the same.
The three largest issues facing the country are housing, housing, and planning.
The issue Badenoch will face on housing is her party being utterly opposed to doing anything about planning.
So there is a wide open goal for Starmer here but if he misses then Badenoch has her opening.
Gove had good ideas but was shut down by the NIMBYs in the party, who mostly lost to the Lib Dems anyway.
Time to do the right thing, there’s more than four years until the next election.
Gove also helped draft the worst piece of property relayed legislation ever written so said my solicitor friend.
But overall I rate Gove as a skilled operator.
The best the Tories had were Gauke and Stewart. Both gone.
The last Conservative politicians who impressed me were Steve Baker and (don't laugh) JRM, who both exhibited the capacity to analyse and act necessary for politics. That's not to say I agreed with them, it is to say that I could follow their arguments and found them to be relevant. Kemi isn't stupid - she has a computer science degree - but I think she's more gut than head.
she did bugger all as a minster, more interested in promoting culture war shite
Promoting culture war? Isn’t that a bit like accusing Ukraine of promoting a war against Putin when they realized he’s marching half way to their capital and they need to start mobilizing the troops?
It’s also a huge moment to have a female and black leader of a party. That’s credit to the Tories.
Er, nah. I voted Kemi because she's Kemi.
I'm really tired of the first and first stuff, and so I think is everyone else.
We judge people as individuals.
It’s the main difference between the left and the right.
Those of us on the right agree with Martin Luther King, that people should be judged on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
Narunder Kaur who for some reason pops up in my tweets now and then is first out of the gate for tweets she’ll regret. A “blackface puppet”.
It's a weird reaction.
But otoh Narinder Kaur's main claim to fame is as a former reality show contestant (Big Brother).
We may get some of the crazed left (or crazed academics) trying that line, but if anyone serious does so blatantly, it will be handing KB a Timmy Mallett hammer to beat them with.
Narunder Kaur who for some reason pops up in my tweets now and then is first out of the gate for tweets she’ll regret. A “blackface puppet”.
It's a weird reaction.
But otoh Narinder Kaur's main claim to fame is as a former reality show contestant (Bog Brother).
We get some of the crazed left (or crazed academics) trying that line, but if anyone serious does so blatantly, it will be handing KB a Timmy Mallett hammer to beat them with.
It’s also a huge moment to have a female and black leader of a party. That’s credit to the Tories.
Er, nah. I voted Kemi because she's Kemi.
I'm really tired of the first and first stuff, and so I think is everyone else.
We judge people as individuals.
It’s the main difference between the left and the right.
Those of us on the right agree with Martin Luther King, that people should be judged on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
King is a bit old hat now. Used to be that being a dream meant there was still a lot of work to do to acheive it even today, now some don't even think it is a positive dream. All about racial categorisation and ranking of sins!
I jest (mostly), but I do genuinely think some of the stuff out of america on that front is explicitly racist.
It’s also a huge moment to have a female and black leader of a party. That’s credit to the Tories.
Er, nah. I voted Kemi because she's Kemi.
I'm really tired of the first and first stuff, and so I think is everyone else.
We judge people as individuals.
Similarly, whatever Tory members thought of Rishi Sunak, his ethnicity didn't really come into it.
My American relatives couldn't understand why the UK wasn't making a bigger thing of Sunak becoming PM. When I pointed out that he isn't a Christian, they really stared... (New York Liberals - but they live in country where a non-Christian becoming President would stop all the balls on the pool tables, in mid roll).
I think the biggest upset about Sunak was from some pro-Modi press in India, who got angry that he (Sunak) didn't just do whatever Modi wanted. Apparently this was betraying his Hindu roots etc.
It's probably not as stupid as it sounds, but I am still a sucker for taking cheap shots like this myself.
Bit like the famous warning on a packet of peanuts.
"May contain nuts"
EDIT: Though, to be fair, I've found a number of top end steak places do really excellent salads. The thinking apparently is "He goes there for the 18oz T-Bone. She has the salad."
You do know that peanuts are not nuts, don’t you? And the people who are allergic to one might not be allergic to the other?
A result that seems to have united PB as being the right result.
If only because the one person worse than Bad Enoch is Paint over Mickey Mouse Jenrick.
It will be interesting to see what the key message is that she tries to communicate to the public.
The problem as Sunak found is that without Brexit there is little to unite the 2019 coalition.
Going after Reform voters will not work in my view.
Hence why I said she needs to re-orient the party towards “working people” under the age of 60. There are votes to be won there.
Going after the grey vote is understandably tempting, it votes more after all, and can really punish you if they take against you. But you do need to make inroads lower down if you are to have a longterm chance. Isn't that what the Canadian Tory leader has done?
That's advice for left and right btw, so I hope it is acceptable.
As best I can work out the Canadian guy has gone after housing.
Badenoch would be wise to do the same.
The three largest issues facing the country are housing, housing, and planning.
The issue Badenoch will face on housing is her party being utterly opposed to doing anything about planning.
So there is a wide open goal for Starmer here but if he misses then Badenoch has her opening.
Gove had good ideas but was shut down by the NIMBYs in the party, who mostly lost to the Lib Dems anyway.
Time to do the right thing, there’s more than four years until the next election.
Gove also helped draft the worst piece of property relayed legislation ever written so said my solicitor friend.
But overall I rate Gove as a skilled operator.
The best the Tories had were Gauke and Stewart. Both gone.
The last Conservative politicians who impressed me were Steve Baker and (don't laugh) JRM, who both exhibited the capacity to analyse and act necessary for politics. That's not to say I agreed with them, it is to say that I could follow their arguments and found them to be relevant. Kemi isn't stupid - she has a computer science degree - but I think she's more gut than head.
she did bugger all as a minster, more interested in promoting culture war shite
Promoting culture war? Isn’t that a bit like accusing Ukraine of promoting a war against Putin when they realized he’s marching half way to their capital and they need to start mobilizing the troops?
No.
Well it is. We had a culture we were broadly happy with in the noughties. And then certain elements of the left came along and contested it quite furiously. You either give in and get a crap new culture or you tell them they're talking shit and get called a culture warrior.
It's probably not as stupid as it sounds, but I am still a sucker for taking cheap shots like this myself.
Bit like the famous warning on a packet of peanuts.
"May contain nuts"
EDIT: Though, to be fair, I've found a number of top end steak places do really excellent salads. The thinking apparently is "He goes there for the 18oz T-Bone. She has the salad."
You do know that peanuts are not nuts, don’t you? And the people who are allergic to one might not be allergic to the other?
Peanuts are front and centre on the things that people with nut allergies avoid. Hence the ever growing list of places we are not supposed to open a pack of dry roasted.
The irony when Boris Johnson talks about Labour being sleaze-ridden
What sleazy stuff did he do?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha…
It's probably not as stupid as it sounds, but I am still a sucker for taking cheap shots like this myself.
Bit like the famous warning on a packet of peanuts.
"May contain nuts"
EDIT: Though, to be fair, I've found a number of top end steak places do really excellent salads. The thinking apparently is "He goes there for the 18oz T-Bone. She has the salad."
You do know that peanuts are not nuts, don’t you? And the people who are allergic to one might not be allergic to the other?
Peanuts are front and centre on the things that people with nut allergies avoid. Hence the ever growing list of places we are not supposed to open a pack of dry roasted.
It's probably not as stupid as it sounds, but I am still a sucker for taking cheap shots like this myself.
Bit like the famous warning on a packet of peanuts.
"May contain nuts"
EDIT: Though, to be fair, I've found a number of top end steak places do really excellent salads. The thinking apparently is "He goes there for the 18oz T-Bone. She has the salad."
You do know that peanuts are not nuts, don’t you? And the people who are allergic to one might not be allergic to the other?
Peanuts are front and centre on the things that people with nut allergies avoid. Hence the ever growing list of places we are not supposed to open a pack of dry roasted.
You know how they have a small percentage of film showings be baby friendly? I think aircraft should treat nut allergies like that. There’s two flights a day - pick one of those. Otherwise our customers get their peanuts with their beer.
It's probably not as stupid as it sounds, but I am still a sucker for taking cheap shots like this myself.
Bit like the famous warning on a packet of peanuts.
"May contain nuts"
EDIT: Though, to be fair, I've found a number of top end steak places do really excellent salads. The thinking apparently is "He goes there for the 18oz T-Bone. She has the salad."
You do know that peanuts are not nuts, don’t you? And the people who are allergic to one might not be allergic to the other?
Peanuts are front and centre on the things that people with nut allergies avoid. Hence the ever growing list of places we are not supposed to open a pack of dry roasted.
It's probably not as stupid as it sounds, but I am still a sucker for taking cheap shots like this myself.
Bit like the famous warning on a packet of peanuts.
"May contain nuts"
EDIT: Though, to be fair, I've found a number of top end steak places do really excellent salads. The thinking apparently is "He goes there for the 18oz T-Bone. She has the salad."
You do know that peanuts are not nuts, don’t you? And the people who are allergic to one might not be allergic to the other?
Peanuts are front and centre on the things that people with nut allergies avoid. Hence the ever growing list of places we are not supposed to open a pack of dry roasted.
Cue jokes about Donald Trump...
Strangest reflection I've heard recently on Donald Trump is whether he's some kind of Macy's Cyborg - with high heels, assassination edition MAGA diapers, a rugrat on top and heaven knows what else, is there much of the Real Donald Trump left underneath?
I suppose it is true in the sense that the Tories have once again elected a Tory as their leader, and that will not change (unless they capitulate to the Farage fanboys in their ranks).
Incapable of change by electing the first ever black woman to lead a UK party?
"Expect too to see early talk of a need for a change in the leadership rules to increase the proportion of the parliamentary party needed to trigger a confidence vote, to try to ensure the new leader can’t be too easily toppled."
Badenoch is value, probability-wise, but still unbackable IMO due to the time to settlement.
The Boris and Farage odds are bonkers. And Boris should be more likely than Farage, albeit quite unlikely himself.
It depends how long Badenoch lasts.
Best of a bad bunch, at least she is an articulate speaker, though picks rather a lot of unnecessary fights.
I don’t see the articulate but. She seems very stilted to me, but then so do most politicians. I never understand why the Wilson/Reagan/Obama “folksy” approach isn’t the one that rises to the top.
My final thought before lunch, on Reform vs Tories.
Reform have nothing except Punch and Judy politics, dog-whistles and so on.
The Conservatives will do some of that culture war stuff, but the other stuff they do alongside it will be their distinctive wrt Reform. IMO that is their opportunity - and Kemi Badenoch is a better option for that the Generic Bob.
It's probably not as stupid as it sounds, but I am still a sucker for taking cheap shots like this myself.
Bit like the famous warning on a packet of peanuts.
"May contain nuts"
EDIT: Though, to be fair, I've found a number of top end steak places do really excellent salads. The thinking apparently is "He goes there for the 18oz T-Bone. She has the salad."
You do know that peanuts are not nuts, don’t you? And the people who are allergic to one might not be allergic to the other?
Fox Jr is very allergic to peanuts, including tongue and airway swelling, but is fine with cashews and almonds etc.
If you read the labels pretty much everything states "may contain traces of nuts" which isn't terribly helpful. It's a bit of a cop out by manufacturers.
It's probably not as stupid as it sounds, but I am still a sucker for taking cheap shots like this myself.
Bit like the famous warning on a packet of peanuts.
"May contain nuts"
EDIT: Though, to be fair, I've found a number of top end steak places do really excellent salads. The thinking apparently is "He goes there for the 18oz T-Bone. She has the salad."
You do know that peanuts are not nuts, don’t you? And the people who are allergic to one might not be allergic to the other?
Peanuts are front and centre on the things that people with nut allergies avoid. Hence the ever growing list of places we are not supposed to open a pack of dry roasted.
You know how they have a small percentage of film showings be baby friendly? I think aircraft should treat nut allergies like that. There’s two flights a day - pick one of those. Otherwise our customers get their peanuts with their beer.
Peanuts are not actually nuts - they're peas (sort of). Anyone with a nut allergy would be advised to steer clear of 6mm hex for the same reason.
It’s also a huge moment to have a female and black leader of a party. That’s credit to the Tories.
Er, nah. I voted Kemi because she's Kemi.
I'm really tired of the first and first stuff, and so I think is everyone else.
We judge people as individuals.
It’s the main difference between the left and the right.
Those of us on the right agree with Martin Luther King, that people should be judged on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
A couple of right-wingers here seem to be struggling with that idea.
It's probably not as stupid as it sounds, but I am still a sucker for taking cheap shots like this myself.
Bit like the famous warning on a packet of peanuts.
"May contain nuts"
EDIT: Though, to be fair, I've found a number of top end steak places do really excellent salads. The thinking apparently is "He goes there for the 18oz T-Bone. She has the salad."
You do know that peanuts are not nuts, don’t you? And the people who are allergic to one might not be allergic to the other?
Peanuts are front and centre on the things that people with nut allergies avoid. Hence the ever growing list of places we are not supposed to open a pack of dry roasted.
You know how they have a small percentage of film showings be baby friendly? I think aircraft should treat nut allergies like that. There’s two flights a day - pick one of those. Otherwise our customers get their peanuts with their beer.
Peanuts are not actually nuts - they're peas (sort of). Anyone with a nut allergy would be advised to steer clear of 6mm hex for the same reason.
10mm, Shirley?
This is the reason that 10mm sockets are carefully rounded up/stolen by an elite team of Ninjas, who infiltrate all workshops to do so.
It’s also a huge moment to have a female and black leader of a party. That’s credit to the Tories.
Er, nah. I voted Kemi because she's Kemi.
I'm really tired of the first and first stuff, and so I think is everyone else.
We judge people as individuals.
Yes but remember there were people who said it wouldn't happen, that the Tory membership are too racist and they had rejected Sunak versus Truss. I'm no natural Tory member but the symbolism of the result should be noted (but won't be) by the Tories' biggest critics.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
What do you think her short to medium term targets should be?
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
It’s also a huge moment to have a female and black leader of a party. That’s credit to the Tories.
Er, nah. I voted Kemi because she's Kemi.
I'm really tired of the first and first stuff, and so I think is everyone else.
We judge people as individuals.
Sure, and I think that's genuinely true (it's why there are many many non-white MPs representing deep rural adn very white seats), but the party is definitely going to want to note the situation.
More perhaps as a contrast with Labour than as intrinsically praiseworthy, perhaps. After all, for all of Labour’s obsession with shortlists and identity politics, their most prominent black female MP is probably still Diane Abbott.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
How will Mrs Hamish Badenoch go down in Scotland?
David Cameron didn't do well electorally in Scotland.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
How will Mrs Hamish Badenoch go down in Scotland?
David Cameron didn't do well electorally in Scotland.
It’s also a huge moment to have a female and black leader of a party. That’s credit to the Tories.
Er, nah. I voted Kemi because she's Kemi.
I'm really tired of the first and first stuff, and so I think is everyone else.
We judge people as individuals.
Sure, and I think that's genuinely true (it's why there are many many non-white MPs representing deep rural adn very white seats), but the party is definitely going to want to note the situation.
More perhaps as a contrast with Labour than as intrinsically praiseworthy, perhaps. After all, for all of Labour’s obsession with shortlists and identity politics, their most prominent black female MP is probably still Diane Abbott.
The last parliament certainly had some mediocrities on the labour benches, clumsily trying to race grift against a cabinet that was full to the brim of second generation migrants. It was embarrassing.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
What do you think her short to medium term targets should be?
To make the Tories look and sound credible again. It’s a big ask after the shambles of the last few years and it won’t be overnight. She needs to build a team that can give a consistent and coherent critique of this shambles of a government, not just mocking them (which is easy), but in putting forward credible alternatives.
The choice of her shadow Chancellor is going to be key. I am sure Hunt will want to step back and he probably should. Otherwise he will spend too much time defending what he did. She needs someone bright, articulate and informed that she can trust implicitly.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
What do you think her short to medium term targets should be?
Picking a shadow cabinet ain't going to be easy to start with.
It’s also a huge moment to have a female and black leader of a party. That’s credit to the Tories.
Er, nah. I voted Kemi because she's Kemi.
I'm really tired of the first and first stuff, and so I think is everyone else.
We judge people as individuals.
It’s the main difference between the left and the right.
Those of us on the right agree with Martin Luther King, that people should be judged on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
A couple of right-wingers here seem to be struggling with that idea.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
How will Mrs Hamish Badenoch go down in Scotland?
David Cameron didn't do well electorally in Scotland.
Your roving reporter here on the ground out and about today in North Shetland can report the word on the street. Some love for baaaadenoch.
It’s also a huge moment to have a female and black leader of a party. That’s credit to the Tories.
Er, nah. I voted Kemi because she's Kemi.
I'm really tired of the first and first stuff, and so I think is everyone else.
We judge people as individuals.
It’s the main difference between the left and the right.
Those of us on the right agree with Martin Luther King, that people should be judged on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
I agree with all of that whilst still acknowledging that it is a big moment for the Tories and the country. A historic moment.
Now onto the work of winning people back, she could yet convince me - and I am sure many others - if Labour screw up. But she will need to do some policy making aimed at non-pensioners first.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
What do you think her short to medium term targets should be?
To make the Tories look and sound credible again. It’s a big ask after the shambles of the last few years and it won’t be overnight. She needs to build a team that can give a consistent and coherent critique of this shambles of a government, not just mocking them (which is easy), but in putting forward credible alternatives.
The choice of her shadow Chancellor is going to be key. I am sure Hunt will want to step back and he probably should. Otherwise he will spend too much time defending what he did. She needs someone bright, articulate and informed that she can trust implicitly.
Are you suggesting she look outside the pool of Tory MPs?
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
How will Mrs Hamish Badenoch go down in Scotland?
Don’t honestly know. She needs to get Ruth back involved in front line politics.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
What do you think her short to medium term targets should be?
Picking a shadow cabinet ain't going to be easy to start with.
It didn’t seem to hurt Starmer that much, with a few exceptions he had largely non entities in his shadow cabinet. New faces along side some old ones. It feels petty for Cleverly to not take a role if offered.
It’s also a huge moment to have a female and black leader of a party. That’s credit to the Tories.
Er, nah. I voted Kemi because she's Kemi.
I'm really tired of the first and first stuff, and so I think is everyone else.
We judge people as individuals.
Yes but remember there were people who said it wouldn't happen, that the Tory membership are too racist and they had rejected Sunak versus Truss. I'm no natural Tory member but the symbolism of the result should be noted (but won't be) by the Tories' biggest critics.
Well those people are idiots.
You be opposed to the Tories as I (currently) am but note achievements. Not everything they do is bad and I have spoken to a few examples where they did do well.
Doing this adds more credibility to one's argument, not less.
It’s also a huge moment to have a female and black leader of a party. That’s credit to the Tories.
Er, nah. I voted Kemi because she's Kemi.
I'm really tired of the first and first stuff, and so I think is everyone else.
We judge people as individuals.
It’s the main difference between the left and the right.
Those of us on the right agree with Martin Luther King, that people should be judged on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
A couple of right-wingers here seem to be struggling with that idea.
Who?
I refer you to @Cookie 's comments upthread defending Leon's prior comments.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
In order to do any of this in a way that helps the nation a different sort of objective is needed.
Firstly Kemi needs to communicate a fundamental set of political principles about what sort of entity UK should be aiming towards being. Which sort of conservative society does she want?
Secondly in the light of that, what are her policies on the big and/or difficult issuessuch as: centralisation of power, migration, social care/NHS, state managed expenditure, planning, relations with EU, protectionism/free trade, justice, foreign policy.
I don't think being another waffly pragmatist will do this time. Triangular circles won't deal with Reform.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
What do you think her short to medium term targets should be?
Change the leadership rules so she isn't challenged by Xmas.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
What do you think her short to medium term targets should be?
To make the Tories look and sound credible again. It’s a big ask after the shambles of the last few years and it won’t be overnight. She needs to build a team that can give a consistent and coherent critique of this shambles of a government, not just mocking them (which is easy), but in putting forward credible alternatives.
The choice of her shadow Chancellor is going to be key. I am sure Hunt will want to step back and he probably should. Otherwise he will spend too much time defending what he did. She needs someone bright, articulate and informed that she can trust implicitly.
Are you suggesting she look outside the pool of Tory MPs?
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
How will Mrs Hamish Badenoch go down in Scotland?
Will she be the Bore of Badenoch or the Wolf of Badenoch?
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
How will Mrs Hamish Badenoch go down in Scotland?
Something of the wolf about her.
* Scottish history reference to Alexander Stewart, Earl of Buchan, who burnt Elgin cathedral in 1390.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
In order to do any of this in a way that helps the nation a different sort of objective is needed.
Firstly Kemi needs to communicate a fundamental set of political principles about what sort of entity UK should be aiming towards being. Which sort of conservative society does she want?
Secondly in the light of that, what are her policies on the big and/or difficult issuessuch as: centralisation of power, migration, social care/NHS, state managed expenditure, planning, relations with EU, protectionism/free trade, justice, foreign policy.
I don't think being another waffly pragmatist will do this time. Triangular circles won't deal with Reform.
And, more practically, she has the challenge of meeting expectations with the next round of local elections in May. The Tories did pretty well in 2021 during peak-Boris so not going backwards could be tricky - particularly given the inroads made by the LibDems in the shires in July. Could be an awkward bump in the road.
Were the vote shares for Kemi vs Bobby J released?
Totting it up I think I am down about £30 on the Tory leadership race.
131,680 eligible electors. Turnout was 72.8%.
Kemi Badenoch received 53,806 votes
Robert Jenrick received 41,388 votes
There were 655 rejected ballots.
66,288 electors voted online and 29,621 electors voted by post.
That last stat is worrying enough by itself. 1/3rd of members so out of touch they can't use the internet OR alternatively so fiscally imprudent they'd pay for a stamp unnecessarily.
A result that seems to have united PB as being the right result.
If only because the one person worse than Bad Enoch is Paint over Mickey Mouse Jenrick.
It will be interesting to see what the key message is that she tries to communicate to the public.
The problem as Sunak found is that without Brexit there is little to unite the 2019 coalition.
Going after Reform voters will not work in my view.
Hence why I said she needs to re-orient the party towards “working people” under the age of 60. There are votes to be won there.
Going after the grey vote is understandably tempting, it votes more after all, and can really punish you if they take against you. But you do need to make inroads lower down if you are to have a longterm chance. Isn't that what the Canadian Tory leader has done?
That's advice for left and right btw, so I hope it is acceptable.
As best I can work out the Canadian guy has gone after housing.
Badenoch would be wise to do the same.
The three largest issues facing the country are housing, housing, and planning.
The issue Badenoch will face on housing is her party being utterly opposed to doing anything about planning.
So there is a wide open goal for Starmer here but if he misses then Badenoch has her opening.
Gove had good ideas but was shut down by the NIMBYs in the party, who mostly lost to the Lib Dems anyway.
Time to do the right thing, there’s more than four years until the next election.
Gove also helped draft the worst piece of property relayed legislation ever written so said my solicitor friend.
But overall I rate Gove as a skilled operator.
The best the Tories had were Gauke and Stewart. Both gone.
The last Conservative politicians who impressed me were Steve Baker and (don't laugh) JRM, who both exhibited the capacity to analyse and act necessary for politics. That's not to say I agreed with them, it is to say that I could follow their arguments and found them to be relevant. Kemi isn't stupid - she has a computer science degree - but I think she's more gut than head.
she did bugger all as a minster, more interested in promoting culture war shite
Promoting culture war? Isn’t that a bit like accusing Ukraine of promoting a war against Putin when they realized he’s marching half way to their capital and they need to start mobilizing the troops?
No.
Well it is. We had a culture we were broadly happy with in the noughties. And then certain elements of the left came along and contested it quite furiously. You either give in and get a crap new culture or you tell them they're talking shit and get called a culture warrior.
Yebbut, when you say 'we', who do you mean?
I would be interested to find out whether the number of people who feel the new culture is crap are more numerous than those who feel the culture now has more space for them that that of the noughties.
"Expect too to see early talk of a need for a change in the leadership rules to increase the proportion of the parliamentary party needed to trigger a confidence vote, to try to ensure the new leader can’t be too easily toppled."
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
How will Mrs Hamish Badenoch go down in Scotland?
David Cameron didn't do well electorally in Scotland.
He didn't have a Scottish spouse though.
Despite the name, I'm not aware of Hamish Badenoch having any Scottish connection.
OT. Interesting winner of Cannes Palm d'Or 'Anora' now on cinema release. Despite a score of 99% on Rotten Toms I could see little to admire. Daringly pornographic for a mainstream film I suppose but following last years 'Anatomy of a Fall' and the brilliant 'Zone of Interest' this shouldn't be in the same league.
It's a Sean Baker movie. The guy is known for making movies about sex workers (Tangerine is one of my favourite films), so showing up to a Sean Baker movie you should know what to expect.
I didn't think it was pornographic at all, it was a film about how working class people are exploited by the ultra rich. We see that in the cleaners hoovering up around the oligarch's son, the henchmen sent after him, and so on. Echoes of Fitzgerald - "They were careless people, Tom and Daisy... they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made." That was the point Anora was getting across.
Without spoilering the ending for people who haven't seen it, it was clearly a commentary on how being a sex worker makes it impossible to experience intimacy in a non-transactional way.
A deserved winner, IMHO, but YMMV.
It was a mixture of slapstick and porn. I wasn't disturbed by the porn though a few sensitive souls walked out within he first ten minutes. Cannes is famous for innovation and subtlety. I thought this failed on both. Skinflicks like this have appeared at film theatres for many years. This struck me as little more than an updated Carry-On film' with real sex.
Comments
I vote Kemi because she is White Man.
Those of us on the right agree with Martin Luther King, that people should be judged on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin.
But otoh Narinder Kaur's main claim to fame is as a former reality show contestant (Big Brother).
We may get some of the crazed left (or crazed academics) trying that line, but if anyone serious does so blatantly, it will be handing KB a Timmy Mallett hammer to beat them with.
Watch out for Dawn Butler MP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYg_6NxX-Bo
Is anyone running a book on how many Labour councillors/MPs will make statements of the "Hang on, I wasn't being racist, BUT.." variety?
https://youtu.be/I1ulBcFCt-E?si=eJQtQvkmf1_a0FBu
Using it to "treat" the family to a trip on the Welshpool and Llanfair Light Railway today!
I jest (mostly), but I do genuinely think some of the stuff out of america on that front is explicitly racist.
I think the biggest upset about Sunak was from some pro-Modi press in India, who got angry that he (Sunak) didn't just do whatever Modi wanted. Apparently this was betraying his Hindu roots etc.
Best of a bad bunch, at least she is an articulate speaker, though picks rather a lot of unnecessary fights.
"Expect too to see early talk of a need for a change in the leadership rules to increase the proportion of the parliamentary party needed to trigger a confidence vote, to try to ensure the new leader can’t be too easily toppled."
Reform have nothing except Punch and Judy politics, dog-whistles and so on.
The Conservatives will do some of that culture war stuff, but the other stuff they do alongside it will be their distinctive wrt Reform. IMO that is their opportunity - and Kemi Badenoch is a better option for that the Generic Bob.
If you read the labels pretty much everything states "may contain traces of nuts" which isn't terribly helpful. It's a bit of a cop out by manufacturers.
This is the reason that 10mm sockets are carefully rounded up/stolen by an elite team of Ninjas, who infiltrate all workshops to do so.
I think that there are 2 objectives. Firstly, and most importantly, she needs to see off Reform and reunite the centre right.
Secondly, and consequentially, she needs to at least double the number of Tory MPs in the next Parliament. Still a long way off government but at least within some sort of fighting distance of government.
If she achieves these she may well earn a second bite of the cherry. If she doesn’t she will simply be another Tory leader who never got to PM.
The choice of her shadow Chancellor is going to be key. I am sure Hunt will want to step back and he probably should. Otherwise he will spend too much time defending what he did. She needs someone bright, articulate and informed that she can trust implicitly.
Now onto the work of winning people back, she could yet convince me - and I am sure many others - if Labour screw up. But she will need to do some policy making aimed at non-pensioners first.
Right: *responds*
Left: "You're picking an unnecessary fight!"
You be opposed to the Tories as I (currently) am but note achievements. Not everything they do is bad and I have spoken to a few examples where they did do well.
Doing this adds more credibility to one's argument, not less.
It shows seven days of totally unbroken grey, overcast weather every single hour for my neck of the woods.
Leon will inconsolable.
For example:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg3eqy1r5q0o
Firstly Kemi needs to communicate a fundamental set of political principles about what sort of entity UK should be aiming towards being. Which sort of conservative society does she want?
Secondly in the light of that, what are her policies on the big and/or difficult issuessuch as: centralisation of power, migration, social care/NHS, state managed expenditure, planning, relations with EU, protectionism/free trade, justice, foreign policy.
I don't think being another waffly pragmatist will do this time. Triangular circles won't deal with Reform.
It rained here in Gloucestershire this morning. Never mind fancy kit, do they not even have windows in their offices?
* Scottish history reference to Alexander Stewart, Earl of Buchan, who burnt Elgin cathedral in 1390.
Totting it up I think I am down about £30 on the Tory leadership race.
Kemi Badenoch received 53,806 votes
Robert Jenrick received 41,388 votes
There were 655 rejected ballots.
66,288 electors voted online and 29,621 electors voted by post.
That last stat is worrying enough by itself. 1/3rd of members so out of touch they can't use the internet OR alternatively so fiscally imprudent they'd pay for a stamp unnecessarily.
NEW THREAD
I would be interested to find out whether the number of people who feel the new culture is crap are more numerous than those who feel the culture now has more space for them that that of the noughties.