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Ladbrokes think the Tory contest winner will not lead the party at the GE – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    ...

    Taz said:

    The right-wing media are making a bit of an ass of themselves over Starmer and his uncle.

    Yes, some of the resultant memes are funny. But saying 'torpedoed' rather than 'bombed' is an easy misspeak to make. It's hardly major in the context, and I wouldn't classify it as a lie. His uncle served, and was on a ship that suffered damage in battle.

    Starmer is having a bit of an unfortunate run of misspeaking, calling Sunak PM repeatedly, releasing the sausages...
    So what?
    Just saying he has is an unfortunate run where he has a number of gaffes in short succession. You are very defensive.
    I noticed at PMQs yesterday he fell into the trap of demanding an answer to 'his' question which when Sunak did that previously the Speaker reminded him it is PMs questions !!

    As for 'so what' or 'who cares' or 172 seat majority just indicates an attempt to close down the uncomfortable truth that Starmer's first 100 days has descended into freebies, cronyism and a terrible civil war in no 10 reflecting in approval poll ratings even below Sunak

    Starmer was elected on his undertaking for change and a new way of doing politics, which has disappointed many including myself as I thought he would at least be true to his word but ultimely all he has been is the same as the rest sadly
    Change the record.
    Thats the other one I forgot !!!!!
    Who are you voting for in the Tory leadership contest?
    I am not a member
    Who are you supporting?
    Badenoch as I have always been very anti Jenrick
    I fear for the nation's pearls!!!

    Total gifts and donations to Kemi in 24/25 was £274,655 according to ChatGPT – you will surely be happy to check its working?

    Graham Edwards: £12,000
    Charles Keymer: £10,000 + £40,000 = £50,000
    Robert West: £1,855
    Shaya Raymond: £5,000 + £5,000 = £10,000 (in-kind donations)
    Neil Record: £10,000
    Dean Richmond: £5,000
    David Eventhall: £10,000
    Caroline O'Kane: £5,000
    David Watson: £10,000
    James Mellon: £10,000
    Dominic Brisby: £10,000
    Martin Bellamy: £5,000
    James Emslie: £10,000
    Alison Frost: £5,000
    Dambisa Moyo: £10,000
    Douglas Shaw: £20,000

    Andrew Scott: £10,000
    Growth Financial Services: £10,000
    David Naylor Leyland: £10,000
    John Goodall: £5,000
    John Edward James: £10,000
    Roger Brookhouse: £5,000
    Quentin Marshall: £5,000
    Charles Morgan: £5,000
    Jingle Bell Ball (free tickets): £800


    Those look like donations to her office. Which are fine. Do you have more detail?
    Well as I have now said multiple times on here, this is not some secret dossier, but the REGISTER OF MEMBERS INTERESTS which is in the pubic domain and takes about three seconds to google. I mean, we all guessed that PB Tories like G hadn't even bothered to look at it – preferring instead to get their 'information' from Guido Fawkes, the man on the internet.
    You completely miss the point

    As explained in @Taz at 1.36 it is the hypocrisy that is Starmers problem

    You also have a weird idea that everyone opposed to Starmer is a right wing Tory when in my case nothing could be further from the truth

    I am a one nation conservatives and I post widely from across the media including Sky, Guardian, Times and others but you will not see a post from me from GB news

    Your problem is you seem to be in denial just how badly Starmer has been received by the public in his first 100 days and maybe accepting that would be cathartic

    Can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Whenever you are ready...
    Pointless argument going round in circles

    Look at public opinion on Starmer and his first 100 days and now honestly state that the freebies and cronyism on display from him and his colleagues has not damaged his reputation

    OF course Starmer deliberately did not make such a specific commitment as is being demanded. However it still does not mean he is not a hypocrite or guilty of doing one thing and saying another.
    Hang on, we've just established that he hasn't said another. Okay, I mean, he might have said another, down the pub, or in the kitchen when rustling up tandoori salmon. But nobody has managed to find a quote.
    Labour are in the mire when Starmer has lost lifelong Labour voter Taz. It's end of days mate!
    Waiting for your next flounce, mate. It won't be long.

    I supported labour at the last election and, unlike Cpt Cash, have voted for them at Every General Election I have voted in but I do not support them like I support my soccer team.
    Just to cheer you up I'll jump when I'm ready. I have enjoyed the discomfort the last 24 hours have brought to those PB Tories who assumed Cleverly was a shoo-in and the future. All bets are on Badenoch now, although in a couple of weeks Jenrick might be the answer. It's a funny old game Saint!

    P.S. I don't think there are as many on here with red scarves tied quite as tightly around the neck as there are blue ones. I couldn't care less who wins the next election so long as it's not any cabal of right wing headbangers.
    As I said before, I don't mind either way if you stay or go (and I would say that about anyone) but, you know, it is not Heathrow Airport and departures don't need announcing.
    You volunteered another flounce on my behalf. I was simply responding (reasonably) politely to your post.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Taz said:

    The right-wing media are making a bit of an ass of themselves over Starmer and his uncle.

    Yes, some of the resultant memes are funny. But saying 'torpedoed' rather than 'bombed' is an easy misspeak to make. It's hardly major in the context, and I wouldn't classify it as a lie. His uncle served, and was on a ship that suffered damage in battle.

    Starmer is having a bit of an unfortunate run of misspeaking, calling Sunak PM repeatedly, releasing the sausages...
    So what?
    Just saying he has is an unfortunate run where he has a number of gaffes in short succession. You are very defensive.
    I noticed at PMQs yesterday he fell into the trap of demanding an answer to 'his' question which when Sunak did that previously the Speaker reminded him it is PMs questions !!

    As for 'so what' or 'who cares' or 172 seat majority just indicates an attempt to close down the uncomfortable truth that Starmer's first 100 days has descended into freebies, cronyism and a terrible civil war in no 10 reflecting in approval poll ratings even below Sunak

    Starmer was elected on his undertaking for change and a new way of doing politics, which has disappointed many including myself as I thought he would at least be true to his word but ultimely all he has been is the same as the rest sadly
    Change the record.
    Thats the other one I forgot !!!!!
    Who are you voting for in the Tory leadership contest?
    I am not a member
    Who are you supporting?
    Badenoch as I have always been very anti Jenrick
    I fear for the nation's pearls!!!

    Total gifts and donations to Kemi in 24/25 was £274,655 according to ChatGPT – you will surely be happy to check its working?

    Graham Edwards: £12,000
    Charles Keymer: £10,000 + £40,000 = £50,000
    Robert West: £1,855
    Shaya Raymond: £5,000 + £5,000 = £10,000 (in-kind donations)
    Neil Record: £10,000
    Dean Richmond: £5,000
    David Eventhall: £10,000
    Caroline O'Kane: £5,000
    David Watson: £10,000
    James Mellon: £10,000
    Dominic Brisby: £10,000
    Martin Bellamy: £5,000
    James Emslie: £10,000
    Alison Frost: £5,000
    Dambisa Moyo: £10,000
    Douglas Shaw: £20,000

    Andrew Scott: £10,000
    Growth Financial Services: £10,000
    David Naylor Leyland: £10,000
    John Goodall: £5,000
    John Edward James: £10,000
    Roger Brookhouse: £5,000
    Quentin Marshall: £5,000
    Charles Morgan: £5,000
    Jingle Bell Ball (free tickets): £800


    Those look like donations to her office. Which are fine. Do you have more detail?
    Well as I have now said multiple times on here, this is not some secret dossier, but the REGISTER OF MEMBERS INTERESTS which is in the pubic domain and takes about three seconds to google. I mean, we all guessed that PB Tories like G hadn't even bothered to look at it – preferring instead to get their 'information' from Guido Fawkes, the man on the internet.
    You completely miss the point

    As explained in @Taz at 1.36 it is the hypocrisy that is Starmers problem

    You also have a weird idea that everyone opposed to Starmer is a right wing Tory when in my case nothing could be further from the truth

    I am a one nation conservatives and I post widely from across the media including Sky, Guardian, Times and others but you will not see a post from me from GB news

    Your problem is you seem to be in denial just how badly Starmer has been received by the public in his first 100 days and maybe accepting that would be cathartic

    Can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Whenever you are ready...
    Pointless argument going round in circles

    Look at public opinion on Starmer and his first 100 days and now honestly state that the freebies and cronyism on display from him and his colleagues has not damaged his reputation

    OF course Starmer deliberately did not make such a specific commitment as is being demanded. However it still does not mean he is not a hypocrite or guilty of doing one thing and saying another.
    Hang on, we've just established that he hasn't said another. Okay, I mean, he might have said another, down the pub, or in the kitchen when rustling up tandoori salmon. But nobody has managed to find a quote.
    What is your point when your leader is tanking in the polls and sits below Farage and as @HYUFD has just said whichever conservative is elected would have higher approval ratings than Starmer
    Ah, the crutch of 'public opinion' – a favourite of yours. I note you haven't engaged with the substantive point... again.

    Funny old world.
    There is no substantive point other than some weird idea that you are trying to justify Starmer with and cannot accept what is obvious to everyone Starmer is hopeless at politics
    He’s done pretty well for someone hopeless at politics. Most politicians would love to be that hopeless. He has to defeat a number of people to get where he got to today.

    The interesting question is what happens next. Government is different to opposition.
    In government is very different and Starmer has similarities to Sunak in his political antennae

    I am disappointed in him, not that I expected a new Blair, but I really did not see the sleeze, freebies and cronyism coming at all nor do I suspect to most anyone else
    He has made serious mistakes. They are disappointing, but it’s early days and he was written off before. To call him hopeless at politics is absurd given what he has already achieved.
    I do respect you acknowledging mistakes have been made and it all adds up to a volatile unpredictable future for everyone involved in politics and of course he could recover but equally he may have sustained reputational damage that will be hard to shift

    Time and events will tell but anyone who thinks they know the outcome of the next GE are either wish casting or do not see how rapidly change is happening both here and across the world
    I completely agree that anyone who claims to know the result of the next election is a fool. Almost any outcome is possible.

    It is utterly bizarre that anyone could deny that Starmer made an error of judgement taking things like free glasses. What on Earth was he thinking? Bizarre. I know you’re busy Keir, but you can pay for your own glasses.

    It is equally obvious that he has incurred political damage from this. It’s especially bad in the context of the winter fuel allowance.

    Where I deviate from Internet hyperbole and chit chat from opponents is that the election is five years hence and the consequences are trivial compared to the outcome of economic performance and the success of other reforms and “events”.
    I'd say that's fair. If the government can ride through this bumpy patch and go on to deliver an economy that continues to outperform our counterparts in Europe, so that individual Britons' material circumstances improve, while delivering quality of life improvements for the British people - like, say, improving the provision of housing, improvements to infrastructure, improvements to public services, reduction in crime, and so on - or some vaguely positive on-balance assessment of all that ... well then they will be justifiably reelected. And this will be seen as so much froth.

    Some on the left are taking a position - understandable, given their political philosophy - that all this is a given from a left-wing government, so of course what is happening now is froth. Similarly, some on the right are taking the opposite view - that naturally a left-wing government will fail to do this, so we hardly consider its possibility.

    The need for left-wing politicians for Taylor Swift tickets and so on is a little venal, and quite funny. So it gets picked up on. But I'd say most right-wing critics of Labour are rather more concerned about things like measures which result in high-taxpaying individuals leaving the country. We can argue about that too, but it's not as much fun.

    FWIW, I can hear my mother-in-law in the next room talking politics. She isn't talking about Labour's economic decision-making. She's talking about Angela Rayner's '£1200' New Year's holiday.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,421

    Jonathan said:

    Taz said:

    The right-wing media are making a bit of an ass of themselves over Starmer and his uncle.

    Yes, some of the resultant memes are funny. But saying 'torpedoed' rather than 'bombed' is an easy misspeak to make. It's hardly major in the context, and I wouldn't classify it as a lie. His uncle served, and was on a ship that suffered damage in battle.

    Starmer is having a bit of an unfortunate run of misspeaking, calling Sunak PM repeatedly, releasing the sausages...
    So what?
    Just saying he has is an unfortunate run where he has a number of gaffes in short succession. You are very defensive.
    I noticed at PMQs yesterday he fell into the trap of demanding an answer to 'his' question which when Sunak did that previously the Speaker reminded him it is PMs questions !!

    As for 'so what' or 'who cares' or 172 seat majority just indicates an attempt to close down the uncomfortable truth that Starmer's first 100 days has descended into freebies, cronyism and a terrible civil war in no 10 reflecting in approval poll ratings even below Sunak

    Starmer was elected on his undertaking for change and a new way of doing politics, which has disappointed many including myself as I thought he would at least be true to his word but ultimely all he has been is the same as the rest sadly
    Change the record.
    Thats the other one I forgot !!!!!
    Who are you voting for in the Tory leadership contest?
    I am not a member
    Who are you supporting?
    Badenoch as I have always been very anti Jenrick
    I fear for the nation's pearls!!!

    Total gifts and donations to Kemi in 24/25 was £274,655 according to ChatGPT – you will surely be happy to check its working?

    Graham Edwards: £12,000
    Charles Keymer: £10,000 + £40,000 = £50,000
    Robert West: £1,855
    Shaya Raymond: £5,000 + £5,000 = £10,000 (in-kind donations)
    Neil Record: £10,000
    Dean Richmond: £5,000
    David Eventhall: £10,000
    Caroline O'Kane: £5,000
    David Watson: £10,000
    James Mellon: £10,000
    Dominic Brisby: £10,000
    Martin Bellamy: £5,000
    James Emslie: £10,000
    Alison Frost: £5,000
    Dambisa Moyo: £10,000
    Douglas Shaw: £20,000

    Andrew Scott: £10,000
    Growth Financial Services: £10,000
    David Naylor Leyland: £10,000
    John Goodall: £5,000
    John Edward James: £10,000
    Roger Brookhouse: £5,000
    Quentin Marshall: £5,000
    Charles Morgan: £5,000
    Jingle Bell Ball (free tickets): £800


    Those look like donations to her office. Which are fine. Do you have more detail?
    Well as I have now said multiple times on here, this is not some secret dossier, but the REGISTER OF MEMBERS INTERESTS which is in the pubic domain and takes about three seconds to google. I mean, we all guessed that PB Tories like G hadn't even bothered to look at it – preferring instead to get their 'information' from Guido Fawkes, the man on the internet.
    You completely miss the point

    As explained in @Taz at 1.36 it is the hypocrisy that is Starmers problem

    You also have a weird idea that everyone opposed to Starmer is a right wing Tory when in my case nothing could be further from the truth

    I am a one nation conservatives and I post widely from across the media including Sky, Guardian, Times and others but you will not see a post from me from GB news

    Your problem is you seem to be in denial just how badly Starmer has been received by the public in his first 100 days and maybe accepting that would be cathartic

    Can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Whenever you are ready...
    Pointless argument going round in circles

    Look at public opinion on Starmer and his first 100 days and now honestly state that the freebies and cronyism on display from him and his colleagues has not damaged his reputation

    OF course Starmer deliberately did not make such a specific commitment as is being demanded. However it still does not mean he is not a hypocrite or guilty of doing one thing and saying another.
    Hang on, we've just established that he hasn't said another. Okay, I mean, he might have said another, down the pub, or in the kitchen when rustling up tandoori salmon. But nobody has managed to find a quote.
    What is your point when your leader is tanking in the polls and sits below Farage and as @HYUFD has just said whichever conservative is elected would have higher approval ratings than Starmer
    Ah, the crutch of 'public opinion' – a favourite of yours. I note you haven't engaged with the substantive point... again.

    Funny old world.
    There is no substantive point other than some weird idea that you are trying to justify Starmer with and cannot accept what is obvious to everyone Starmer is hopeless at politics
    He’s done pretty well for someone hopeless at politics. Most politicians would love to be that hopeless. He has to defeat a number of people to get where he got to today.

    The interesting question is what happens next. Government is different to opposition.
    You can make a similar argument for Sunak - he became PM while being actively shit at politics.

    The rather sterile debate on PB about whether Starmer is a hypocrite or not is getting very tedious. Part of his appeal while leader of the opposition was based on hammering the wrong doing of the Tories, even when said wrong doing wasn't necessarily actually wrong doing (such as redecorating No 10 etc). he excoriated repeatedly over partygate, yet was rather close to the rules for his own affairs with curry and beer. The image was of someone playing by the rules, being honest and upfront.

    And arguably, no rules have been broken by the donations of a rich man to multiple Labour MP's. It is, however, the perception that is the problem. The perception is that he is a grasping, money grubbing lawyer, never quite breaking the rules but stretching them oh so thin. And I don't think we have had the real truth about the house borrowing.

    So Anabob can keep saying - "show me where he did this, or that or the other" and Big G can point to opinion polling and never the twain will meet.

    And we can all skip gloriously past those posts...
    You suggest that "redecorating No 10" "wasn't necessarily actually wrong doing". I would remind you that the Electoral Commission concluded that the Conservative Party had failed to follow the law in not accurately reporting donations around "wallpapergate" and issued a £17,800. Ergo, that was definitely wrongdoing.

    Starmer has recently been told off for late reporting of a donation, but no punishment or fine.

    These are clearly very different responses, representing very different levels of error.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Seeing the video of the Big Z arriving at No. 10, I wonder how much Larry the Cat paid the Labour Party for its unrestricted pass to the building... ;)

    I misread that and thought it was about me !!!

    Should have gone to specsavers !!
    No need. If you ask Lord Alii nicely he might furnish you with a new pair. He's very generous when it comes to glasses.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Sounds sub-optimal.

    Whichever way you look at it.

    Rachel Reeves considers raising capital gains tax to 39%
    Exclusive: Rates of 33% to 39% being tested as Treasury source says tax-raising plans are in ‘complete disarray’
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/10/rachel-reeves-capital-gains-tax-rise-budget
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,421
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why does OfGem employ 1,160 people, and spend £3.5m on its office?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/bills/energy/ofgem-blows-35m-year-on-empty-office/

    The thing that most obviously comes to mind is that they have to deal with complaints about complaints when the energy companies rip people off. I could imagine that absorbing a thousand people's working lives with some ease.
    Nope, that would be this lot:

    https://www.energyombudsman.org/
    Oh my. So they're are two separate quangos to do with the energy market? Special.
    So what do the 1,160 people at OfGem do?
    Attend meetings, write documents, review documents, make presentations, increase awareness. They work very hard and an independent review will show that more employees are required to do it.

    200kg of TNT should be enough to level the building https://unsaferguard.org/un-saferguard/blast-damage-estimation
    17 Sep 2024: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/press-release/ovo-pay-ps237-million-customer-complaint-failures

    OVO Electricity Ltd, OVO (S) Gas Ltd, and OVO Gas Ltd have agreed to pay a total of £2.37 million in compensation and redress payments after Ofgem identified a number of failings in how the supplier handled customer complaints.

    The regulator identified that 1,395 OVO customers were affected by issues including lengthy delays in addressing complaints, in some cases up to 18 months, and delays actioning the Energy Ombudsman’s decision when complaints were progressed.

    OVO will pay £378,512 in compensation directly to affected customers and has also paid an additional £2 million to the Energy Industry Voluntary Redress Scheme in recognition of the severity of consumer detriment caused.

    Affected customers will be contacted directly by OVO, and do not need to take any action.

    Following Ofgem’s intervention OVO has increased its complaint handling resources, enhanced its complaints management system and improved its case management processes to make sure senior colleagues have oversight of complaints.


    3 Oct 2024: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/press-release/energy-sector-taskforce-unites-tackle-radio-teleswitch-challenge

    Energy suppliers and other stakeholders have committed to working together to replace 800,000 Radio Teleswitch (RTS) meters across the United Kingdom before the service is switched off next summer.

    The agreement follows a summit, organised by the energy regulator Ofgem, gathering suppliers and stakeholders including Energy UK and Citizens Advice to find a joint solution to the challenge of migrating households from the ageing technology before the service ends on 30 June 2025.

    The RTS system, which uses long wave radio signals to tell some electricity meters to switch between on and off-peak, is no longer viable and without a meter upgrade some affected homes, schools and businesses could be left without heating and hot water, or unable to turn off their heating.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet weather
    Wheat haul in England estimated to be down by 21%, with Britain’s wine producers also hit hard
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/harvest-in-england-the-second-worst-on-record-because-of-wet-weather
  • Seeing the video of the Big Z arriving at No. 10, I wonder how much Larry the Cat paid the Labour Party for its unrestricted pass to the building... ;)

    I misread that and thought it was about me !!!

    Should have gone to specsavers !!
    No need. If you ask Lord Alii nicely he might furnish you with a new pair. He's very generous when it comes to glasses.
    I pay for my own glasses (and clothes and football tickets) and do not need freebies to buy my favour
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,421

    Jonathan said:

    Taz said:

    The right-wing media are making a bit of an ass of themselves over Starmer and his uncle.

    Yes, some of the resultant memes are funny. But saying 'torpedoed' rather than 'bombed' is an easy misspeak to make. It's hardly major in the context, and I wouldn't classify it as a lie. His uncle served, and was on a ship that suffered damage in battle.

    Starmer is having a bit of an unfortunate run of misspeaking, calling Sunak PM repeatedly, releasing the sausages...
    So what?
    Just saying he has is an unfortunate run where he has a number of gaffes in short succession. You are very defensive.
    I noticed at PMQs yesterday he fell into the trap of demanding an answer to 'his' question which when Sunak did that previously the Speaker reminded him it is PMs questions !!

    As for 'so what' or 'who cares' or 172 seat majority just indicates an attempt to close down the uncomfortable truth that Starmer's first 100 days has descended into freebies, cronyism and a terrible civil war in no 10 reflecting in approval poll ratings even below Sunak

    Starmer was elected on his undertaking for change and a new way of doing politics, which has disappointed many including myself as I thought he would at least be true to his word but ultimely all he has been is the same as the rest sadly
    Change the record.
    Thats the other one I forgot !!!!!
    Who are you voting for in the Tory leadership contest?
    I am not a member
    Who are you supporting?
    Badenoch as I have always been very anti Jenrick
    I fear for the nation's pearls!!!

    Total gifts and donations to Kemi in 24/25 was £274,655 according to ChatGPT – you will surely be happy to check its working?

    Graham Edwards: £12,000
    Charles Keymer: £10,000 + £40,000 = £50,000
    Robert West: £1,855
    Shaya Raymond: £5,000 + £5,000 = £10,000 (in-kind donations)
    Neil Record: £10,000
    Dean Richmond: £5,000
    David Eventhall: £10,000
    Caroline O'Kane: £5,000
    David Watson: £10,000
    James Mellon: £10,000
    Dominic Brisby: £10,000
    Martin Bellamy: £5,000
    James Emslie: £10,000
    Alison Frost: £5,000
    Dambisa Moyo: £10,000
    Douglas Shaw: £20,000

    Andrew Scott: £10,000
    Growth Financial Services: £10,000
    David Naylor Leyland: £10,000
    John Goodall: £5,000
    John Edward James: £10,000
    Roger Brookhouse: £5,000
    Quentin Marshall: £5,000
    Charles Morgan: £5,000
    Jingle Bell Ball (free tickets): £800


    Those look like donations to her office. Which are fine. Do you have more detail?
    Well as I have now said multiple times on here, this is not some secret dossier, but the REGISTER OF MEMBERS INTERESTS which is in the pubic domain and takes about three seconds to google. I mean, we all guessed that PB Tories like G hadn't even bothered to look at it – preferring instead to get their 'information' from Guido Fawkes, the man on the internet.
    You completely miss the point

    As explained in @Taz at 1.36 it is the hypocrisy that is Starmers problem

    You also have a weird idea that everyone opposed to Starmer is a right wing Tory when in my case nothing could be further from the truth

    I am a one nation conservatives and I post widely from across the media including Sky, Guardian, Times and others but you will not see a post from me from GB news

    Your problem is you seem to be in denial just how badly Starmer has been received by the public in his first 100 days and maybe accepting that would be cathartic

    Can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Whenever you are ready...
    Pointless argument going round in circles

    Look at public opinion on Starmer and his first 100 days and now honestly state that the freebies and cronyism on display from him and his colleagues has not damaged his reputation

    OF course Starmer deliberately did not make such a specific commitment as is being demanded. However it still does not mean he is not a hypocrite or guilty of doing one thing and saying another.
    Hang on, we've just established that he hasn't said another. Okay, I mean, he might have said another, down the pub, or in the kitchen when rustling up tandoori salmon. But nobody has managed to find a quote.
    What is your point when your leader is tanking in the polls and sits below Farage and as @HYUFD has just said whichever conservative is elected would have higher approval ratings than Starmer
    Ah, the crutch of 'public opinion' – a favourite of yours. I note you haven't engaged with the substantive point... again.

    Funny old world.
    There is no substantive point other than some weird idea that you are trying to justify Starmer with and cannot accept what is obvious to everyone Starmer is hopeless at politics
    He’s done pretty well for someone hopeless at politics. Most politicians would love to be that hopeless. He has to defeat a number of people to get where he got to today.

    The interesting question is what happens next. Government is different to opposition.
    You can make a similar argument for Sunak - he became PM while being actively shit at politics.

    The rather sterile debate on PB about whether Starmer is a hypocrite or not is getting very tedious. Part of his appeal while leader of the opposition was based on hammering the wrong doing of the Tories, even when said wrong doing wasn't necessarily actually wrong doing (such as redecorating No 10 etc). he excoriated repeatedly over partygate, yet was rather close to the rules for his own affairs with curry and beer. The image was of someone playing by the rules, being honest and upfront.

    And arguably, no rules have been broken by the donations of a rich man to multiple Labour MP's. It is, however, the perception that is the problem. The perception is that he is a grasping, money grubbing lawyer, never quite breaking the rules but stretching them oh so thin. And I don't think we have had the real truth about the house borrowing.

    So Anabob can keep saying - "show me where he did this, or that or the other" and Big G can point to opinion polling and never the twain will meet.

    And we can all skip gloriously past those posts...
    You suggest that "redecorating No 10" "wasn't necessarily actually wrong doing". I would remind you that the Electoral Commission concluded that the Conservative Party had failed to follow the law in not accurately reporting donations around "wallpapergate" and issued a £17,800. Ergo, that was definitely wrongdoing.

    Starmer has recently been told off for late reporting of a donation, but no punishment or fine.

    These are clearly very different responses, representing very different levels of error.
    If not obvious, there should be the word "fine" after "£17,800"!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173

    Seeing the video of the Big Z arriving at No. 10, I wonder how much Larry the Cat paid the Labour Party for its unrestricted pass to the building... ;)

    I misread that and thought it was about me !!!

    Should have gone to specsavers !!
    No need. If you ask Lord Alii nicely he might furnish you with a new pair. He's very generous when it comes to glasses.
    I pay for my own glasses (and clothes and football tickets) and do not need freebies to buy my favour
    I'm guessing you're not interested in free tickets to see Ms Swift either ?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,379
    Ladbrokes, statewide betting, around 4pm today


    State , Party , Decimal , Probability
    Arizona , Republicans , 1.400 , 0.714
    Arizona , Democrats , 2.750 , 0.364
    Wisconsin , Democrats , 1.125 , 0.889
    Wisconsin , Republicans , 2.250 , 0.444
    Georgia , Republicans , 1.444 , 0.692
    Georgia , Democrats , 2.625 , 0.381
    Michigan , Democrats , 1.125 , 0.889
    Michigan , Republicans , 2.200 , 0.455
    Alabama , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Alabama , Democrats , 13.000 , 0.077
    Alaska , Republicans , 2.000 , 0.500
    Alaska , Democrats , 10.000 , 0.100
    Arkansas , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Arkansas , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    California , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    California , Republicans , 15.000 , 0.067
    Colorado , Democrats , 2.000 , 0.500
    Colorado , Republicans , 9.000 , 0.111
    Connecticut , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    Connecticut , Republicans , 15.000 , 0.067
    Delaware , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    Delaware , Republicans , 17.000 , 0.059
    Florida , Republicans , 1.083 , 0.923
    Florida , Democrats , 7.000 , 0.143
    Hawaii , Democrats , 1.005 , 0.995
    Hawaii , Republicans , 21.000 , 0.048
    Idaho , Republicans , 1.005 , 0.995
    Idaho , Democrats , 21.000 , 0.048
    Illinois , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    Illinois , Republicans , 17.000 , 0.059
    Indiana , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Indiana , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    Iowa , Republicans , 2.000 , 0.500
    Iowa , Democrats , 13.000 , 0.077
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,379
    viewcode said:

    Ladbrokes, statewide betting, around 4pm today


    State , Party , Decimal , Probability
    Arizona , Republicans , 1.400 , 0.714
    Arizona , Democrats , 2.750 , 0.364
    Wisconsin , Democrats , 1.125 , 0.889
    Wisconsin , Republicans , 2.250 , 0.444
    Georgia , Republicans , 1.444 , 0.692
    Georgia , Democrats , 2.625 , 0.381
    Michigan , Democrats , 1.125 , 0.889
    Michigan , Republicans , 2.200 , 0.455
    Alabama , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Alabama , Democrats , 13.000 , 0.077
    Alaska , Republicans , 2.000 , 0.500
    Alaska , Democrats , 10.000 , 0.100
    Arkansas , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Arkansas , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    California , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    California , Republicans , 15.000 , 0.067
    Colorado , Democrats , 2.000 , 0.500
    Colorado , Republicans , 9.000 , 0.111
    Connecticut , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    Connecticut , Republicans , 15.000 , 0.067
    Delaware , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    Delaware , Republicans , 17.000 , 0.059
    Florida , Republicans , 1.083 , 0.923
    Florida , Democrats , 7.000 , 0.143
    Hawaii , Democrats , 1.005 , 0.995
    Hawaii , Republicans , 21.000 , 0.048
    Idaho , Republicans , 1.005 , 0.995
    Idaho , Democrats , 21.000 , 0.048
    Illinois , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    Illinois , Republicans , 17.000 , 0.059
    Indiana , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Indiana , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    Iowa , Republicans , 2.000 , 0.500
    Iowa , Democrats , 13.000 , 0.077

    Kansas , Republicans , 1.005 , 0.995
    Kansas , Democrats , 21.000 , 0.048
    Kentucky , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Kentucky , Democrats , 15.000 , 0.067
    Louisiana , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Louisiana , Democrats , 15.000 , 0.067
    Maine , Democrats , 1.083 , 0.923
    Maine , Republicans , 7.000 , 0.143
    Maryland , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    Maryland , Republicans , 17.000 , 0.059
    Massachusetts , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    Massachusetts , Republicans , 17.000 , 0.059
    Minnesota , Democrats , 2.000 , 0.500
    Minnesota , Republicans , 8.000 , 0.125
    Mississippi , Republicans , 2.000 , 0.500
    Mississippi , Democrats , 11.000 , 0.091
    Missouri , Republicans , 2.000 , 0.500
    Missouri , Democrats , 13.000 , 0.077
    Montana , Republicans , 2.000 , 0.500
    Montana , Democrats , 15.000 , 0.067
    Nebraska , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Nebraska , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    Nevada , Democrats , 1.800 , 0.556
    Nevada , Republicans , 2.000 , 0.500
    New Hampshire , Democrats , 2.000 , 0.500
    New Hampshire , Republicans , 7.000 , 0.143
    New Jersey , Democrats , 2.000 , 0.500
    New Jersey , Republicans , 13.000 , 0.077
    New Mexico , Democrats , 2.000 , 0.500
    New Mexico , Republicans , 7.000 , 0.143
    New York , Democrats , 2.000 , 0.500
    New York , Republicans , 13.000 , 0.077
    North Carolina , Republicans , 1.125 , 0.889
    North Carolina , Democrats , 2.250 , 0.444
    North Dakota , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    North Dakota , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    Ohio , Republicans , 2.000 , 0.500
    Ohio , Democrats , 11.000 , 0.091
    Oklahoma , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Oklahoma , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    Oregon , Democrats , 2.000 , 0.500
    Oregon , Republicans , 13.000 , 0.077
    Pennsylvania , Republicans , 1.833 , 0.545
    Pennsylvania , Democrats , 1.909 , 0.524
    Rhode Island , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    Rhode Island , Republicans , 15.000 , 0.067
    South Carolina , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    South Carolina , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    South Dakota , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    South Dakota , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    Tennessee , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Tennessee , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    Texas , Republicans , 1.083 , 0.923
    Texas , Democrats , 7.500 , 0.133
    Utah , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Utah , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    Vermont , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    Vermont , Republicans , 17.000 , 0.059
    Virginia , Democrats , 1.100 , 0.909
    Virginia , Republicans , 6.000 , 0.167
    Washington , Democrats , 1.010 , 0.990
    Washington , Republicans , 17.000 , 0.059
    West Virginia , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    West Virginia , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
    Wyoming , Republicans , 1.010 , 0.990
    Wyoming , Democrats , 17.000 , 0.059
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Senate polls: NY Times/Siena

    TEXAS: Cruz 48%, Allred 44% 🔴
    MONTANA: Sheehy 52%, Tester 44% 🔴
    FLORIDA: Scott 49%, Mucarsel-Powell 40% 🔴
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,610
    edited October 10
    Nigelb said:

    Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet weather
    Wheat haul in England estimated to be down by 21%, with Britain’s wine producers also hit hard
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/harvest-in-england-the-second-worst-on-record-because-of-wet-weather

    My wife and I went by train to Aberystwyth via Shrewsbury this week and the amount of surface water on the fields was quite worrying, not least for the sheep and some horses were actually standing in the water

    Another noticeable feature was the poor state of a lot of housing maybe reflecting the lack of opportunities in parts of Mid Wales
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    edited October 10
    Nigelb said:

    Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet weather
    Wheat haul in England estimated to be down by 21%, with Britain’s wine producers also hit hard
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/harvest-in-england-the-second-worst-on-record-because-of-wet-weather

    Really? These maps show June, July and August - which I thought were the key months - to be rather drier than usual in 2024. September is shown to be wet, but I'd have thought that was after the harvest.
    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-actual-and-anomaly-maps
  • Nigelb said:

    Seeing the video of the Big Z arriving at No. 10, I wonder how much Larry the Cat paid the Labour Party for its unrestricted pass to the building... ;)

    I misread that and thought it was about me !!!

    Should have gone to specsavers !!
    No need. If you ask Lord Alii nicely he might furnish you with a new pair. He's very generous when it comes to glasses.
    I pay for my own glasses (and clothes and football tickets) and do not need freebies to buy my favour
    I'm guessing you're not interested in free tickets to see Ms Swift either ?
    Who ?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,236
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Taz said:

    The right-wing media are making a bit of an ass of themselves over Starmer and his uncle.

    Yes, some of the resultant memes are funny. But saying 'torpedoed' rather than 'bombed' is an easy misspeak to make. It's hardly major in the context, and I wouldn't classify it as a lie. His uncle served, and was on a ship that suffered damage in battle.

    Starmer is having a bit of an unfortunate run of misspeaking, calling Sunak PM repeatedly, releasing the sausages...
    So what?
    Just saying he has is an unfortunate run where he has a number of gaffes in short succession. You are very defensive.
    I noticed at PMQs yesterday he fell into the trap of demanding an answer to 'his' question which when Sunak did that previously the Speaker reminded him it is PMs questions !!

    As for 'so what' or 'who cares' or 172 seat majority just indicates an attempt to close down the uncomfortable truth that Starmer's first 100 days has descended into freebies, cronyism and a terrible civil war in no 10 reflecting in approval poll ratings even below Sunak

    Starmer was elected on his undertaking for change and a new way of doing politics, which has disappointed many including myself as I thought he would at least be true to his word but ultimely all he has been is the same as the rest sadly
    Change the record.
    Thats the other one I forgot !!!!!
    Who are you voting for in the Tory leadership contest?
    I am not a member
    Who are you supporting?
    Badenoch as I have always been very anti Jenrick
    I fear for the nation's pearls!!!

    Total gifts and donations to Kemi in 24/25 was £274,655 according to ChatGPT – you will surely be happy to check its working?

    Graham Edwards: £12,000
    Charles Keymer: £10,000 + £40,000 = £50,000
    Robert West: £1,855
    Shaya Raymond: £5,000 + £5,000 = £10,000 (in-kind donations)
    Neil Record: £10,000
    Dean Richmond: £5,000
    David Eventhall: £10,000
    Caroline O'Kane: £5,000
    David Watson: £10,000
    James Mellon: £10,000
    Dominic Brisby: £10,000
    Martin Bellamy: £5,000
    James Emslie: £10,000
    Alison Frost: £5,000
    Dambisa Moyo: £10,000
    Douglas Shaw: £20,000

    Andrew Scott: £10,000
    Growth Financial Services: £10,000
    David Naylor Leyland: £10,000
    John Goodall: £5,000
    John Edward James: £10,000
    Roger Brookhouse: £5,000
    Quentin Marshall: £5,000
    Charles Morgan: £5,000
    Jingle Bell Ball (free tickets): £800


    Those look like donations to her office. Which are fine. Do you have more detail?
    Well as I have now said multiple times on here, this is not some secret dossier, but the REGISTER OF MEMBERS INTERESTS which is in the pubic domain and takes about three seconds to google. I mean, we all guessed that PB Tories like G hadn't even bothered to look at it – preferring instead to get their 'information' from Guido Fawkes, the man on the internet.
    You completely miss the point

    As explained in @Taz at 1.36 it is the hypocrisy that is Starmers problem

    You also have a weird idea that everyone opposed to Starmer is a right wing Tory when in my case nothing could be further from the truth

    I am a one nation conservatives and I post widely from across the media including Sky, Guardian, Times and others but you will not see a post from me from GB news

    Your problem is you seem to be in denial just how badly Starmer has been received by the public in his first 100 days and maybe accepting that would be cathartic

    Can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Whenever you are ready...
    Pointless argument going round in circles

    Look at public opinion on Starmer and his first 100 days and now honestly state that the freebies and cronyism on display from him and his colleagues has not damaged his reputation

    OF course Starmer deliberately did not make such a specific commitment as is being demanded. However it still does not mean he is not a hypocrite or guilty of doing one thing and saying another.
    Hang on, we've just established that he hasn't said another. Okay, I mean, he might have said another, down the pub, or in the kitchen when rustling up tandoori salmon. But nobody has managed to find a quote.
    What is your point when your leader is tanking in the polls and sits below Farage and as @HYUFD has just said whichever conservative is elected would have higher approval ratings than Starmer
    Ah, the crutch of 'public opinion' – a favourite of yours. I note you haven't engaged with the substantive point... again.

    Funny old world.
    There is no substantive point other than some weird idea that you are trying to justify Starmer with and cannot accept what is obvious to everyone Starmer is hopeless at politics
    He’s done pretty well for someone hopeless at politics. Most politicians would love to be that hopeless. He has to defeat a number of people to get where he got to today.

    The interesting question is what happens next. Government is different to opposition.
    In government is very different and Starmer has similarities to Sunak in his political antennae

    I am disappointed in him, not that I expected a new Blair, but I really did not see the sleeze, freebies and cronyism coming at all nor do I suspect to most anyone else
    He has made serious mistakes. They are disappointing, but it’s early days and he was written off before. To call him hopeless at politics is absurd given what he has already achieved.
    I do respect you acknowledging mistakes have been made and it all adds up to a volatile unpredictable future for everyone involved in politics and of course he could recover but equally he may have sustained reputational damage that will be hard to shift

    Time and events will tell but anyone who thinks they know the outcome of the next GE are either wish casting or do not see how rapidly change is happening both here and across the world
    I completely agree that anyone who claims to know the result of the next election is a fool. Almost any outcome is possible.

    It is utterly bizarre that anyone could deny that Starmer made an error of judgement taking things like free glasses. What on Earth was he thinking? Bizarre. I know you’re busy Keir, but you can pay for your own glasses.

    It is equally obvious that he has incurred political damage from this. It’s especially bad in the context of the winter fuel allowance.

    Where I deviate from Internet hyperbole and chit chat from opponents is that the election is five years hence and the consequences are trivial compared to the outcome of economic performance and the success of other reforms and “events”.
    Agree and also I don't think it's massive whataboutery to contrast the industrial scale corruption of the previous government with the sleazy acceptance of gifts so far from this government. I mean associates of the Conservative Party stole £15 billion from you and me in corrupt Covid contracts.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Looks like a massive win for Trump, by the closest of margins.



    (In the snooker)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Sandpit said:

    (In the snooker)

    Give it a rest.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    edited October 10
    Not even one party, I guess ?

    One Nation Tory group refuses to back Badenoch or Jenrick in party leadership race
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/10/centrist-conservatives-refuse-back-badenoch-jenrick-tory-reform-group-leadership-candidates-party-right
    ..One MP said they had been dismayed by the final two candidates, from whom party members will now select a winner in a postal ballot, with the result to be announced on 2 November.

    “The sound you can hear in the background is the barrel being scraped,” they said. “We have a choice of an ECHR one-trick pony, who believes our special forces murder people, and an anti-woke one-trick pony who picks endless fights. As a choice, it’s shit...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069

    Is Luís Montenegro the only leader of a European country that is named after another European country?

    (France once had a leader called France)

    I think our head of state used to go by the name of Charles Wales? I must admit I don't fully understand the names royalty give themselves and under what circumstances, so this may be all wrong.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Labour busily shitting the bed on tax, then re-shitting it

    Because they’ve already scared off so many rich people they can’t do non doms. But hiking CGT will frighten off more rich people and investors etc

    And so the doom loop tightens

    Meanwhile the telegraph reports one reason they have a massive fiscal void is because of extreme immigration levels pressuring public services

    It’s like a machine about to explode
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    https://x.com/tommctague/status/1844340212656447718

    The Cleverly shambles reminds me of a chat I had recently with a high Tory figure who said British Conservatism was still too in thrall to “easy charm” and the appearance of intelligence to achieve anything, when what it really needs is a ruthless machine politician who can count
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet weather
    Wheat haul in England estimated to be down by 21%, with Britain’s wine producers also hit hard
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/harvest-in-england-the-second-worst-on-record-because-of-wet-weather

    Really? These maps show June, July and August - which I thought were the key months - to be rather drier than usual in 2024. September is shown to be wet, but I'd have thought that was after the harvest.
    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-actual-and-anomaly-maps
    Read the article - we lost last year's winter wheat, and we're going to lose this year's.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_wheat
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    Cookie said:

    Is Luís Montenegro the only leader of a European country that is named after another European country?

    (France once had a leader called France)

    I think our head of state used to go by the name of Charles Wales? I must admit I don't fully understand the names royalty give themselves and under what circumstances, so this may be all wrong.
    Charles Windsor!

    President Hollande springs to mind.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112

    Sandpit said:

    (In the snooker)

    Give it a rest.
    Cue a string of PB puns.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173

    Sandpit said:

    (In the snooker)

    Give it a rest.
    Cue a string of PB puns.
    Can't we table that for the next thread ?
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 108
    Cookie said:

    Is Luís Montenegro the only leader of a European country that is named after another European country?

    (France once had a leader called France)

    I think our head of state used to go by the name of Charles Wales? I must admit I don't fully understand the names royalty give themselves and under what circumstances, so this may be all wrong.
    Just informally, I think more of a nickname to make use of their senior titles when needing for surname purposes. Queen Elizabeth II used to call George V Grampa England, which seems apt when looking at a picture of him.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    Nigelb said:

    Not even one party, I guess ?

    One Nation Tory group refuses to back Badenoch or Jenrick in party leadership race
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/10/centrist-conservatives-refuse-back-badenoch-jenrick-tory-reform-group-leadership-candidates-party-right
    ..One MP said they had been dismayed by the final two candidates, from whom party members will now select a winner in a postal ballot, with the result to be announced on 2 November.

    “The sound you can hear in the background is the barrel being scraped,” they said. “We have a choice of an ECHR one-trick pony, who believes our special forces murder people, and an anti-woke one-trick pony who picks endless fights. As a choice, it’s shit...

    It could be worse - they could have picked an anonymous back-biting malevolent turd like this briefer.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    Leon said:

    Labour busily shitting the bed on tax, then re-shitting it

    Because they’ve already scared off so many rich people they can’t do non doms. But hiking CGT will frighten off more rich people and investors etc

    And so the doom loop tightens

    Meanwhile the telegraph reports one reason they have a massive fiscal void is because of extreme immigration levels pressuring public services

    It’s like a machine about to explode

    The Guardian is reporting that Reeves is considering a CGT of 33-39%, despite the fact that HMRC have published estimates that a 10 percentage point raise in CGT would lead to a loss of £2bn a year to the exchequer.

    Bad news for Sandpit, rents in Dubai are about to skyrocket...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Leon said:

    Labour busily shitting the bed on tax, then re-shitting it

    Because they’ve already scared off so many rich people they can’t do non doms. But hiking CGT will frighten off more rich people and investors etc

    And so the doom loop tightens

    Meanwhile the telegraph reports one reason they have a massive fiscal void is because of extreme immigration levels pressuring public services

    It’s like a machine about to explode

    It was going quite well until 'the telegraph' reports.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    Sandpit said:

    Selebian said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The state of this:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/30979217/bukayo-saka-law-student-dodges-jail/

    A LAW student who called Arsenal and England ace Bukayo Saka a “monkey” has dodged a jail term after insisting he was not being racist.

    Westminster magistrates chair Kieran O’Donnell told Ali: “Your lawyer said your intention was not to be racist, but whoever heard it would have heard racial abuse.

    “But you are of previous good character.”

    "You have no previous convictions. You are remorseful"


    Hopefully Arsenal give him a lifetime ban from the Emirates.

    I'm (sort of) aware of a case where a member of nursery staff called a child of African (at last in part) extraction 'a little monkey' due to his misbehaving. The mother heard the remark and complained to the management, demanding the member of staff's racialism.
    I rather doubt this individual was being nice about Saka in light of a 1-0 defeat at Nottingham Forest.
    Apparently he included an audio message on Twatter - “fing b***k piece of s**t”

    Not sure how you say that without intending to be racist....
    Also used the N word, apparently. And I don't mean 'numpty'.

    Interestingly the defendant himself is black. Which is not to suggest it's any more acceptable, but it is interesting that he referenced Saka's ethnic group in this way.
    Dave Chapelle would argue that the N-word merely means ‘person’, when expressed by a person of ‘color’.
    Dave Chapelle: "I just gotta know one thing. You didn't mean that "dirty n***** crack head" shit, did you?"
    John Malkovich: "Give me that gun." [takes the gun] "Hell, yes, I meant it!"
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet weather
    Wheat haul in England estimated to be down by 21%, with Britain’s wine producers also hit hard
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/harvest-in-england-the-second-worst-on-record-because-of-wet-weather

    Really? These maps show June, July and August - which I thought were the key months - to be rather drier than usual in 2024. September is shown to be wet, but I'd have thought that was after the harvest.
    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-actual-and-anomaly-maps
    I know in Ireland that spring planting was late because a wet spring made ploughing impossible. But I also think that September is normally peak harvest season.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173

    Nigelb said:

    Not even one party, I guess ?

    One Nation Tory group refuses to back Badenoch or Jenrick in party leadership race
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/10/centrist-conservatives-refuse-back-badenoch-jenrick-tory-reform-group-leadership-candidates-party-right
    ..One MP said they had been dismayed by the final two candidates, from whom party members will now select a winner in a postal ballot, with the result to be announced on 2 November.

    “The sound you can hear in the background is the barrel being scraped,” they said. “We have a choice of an ECHR one-trick pony, who believes our special forces murder people, and an anti-woke one-trick pony who picks endless fights. As a choice, it’s shit...

    It could be worse - they could have picked an anonymous back-biting malevolent turd like this briefer.
    I guessed you'd rise to the bait.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet weather
    Wheat haul in England estimated to be down by 21%, with Britain’s wine producers also hit hard
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/harvest-in-england-the-second-worst-on-record-because-of-wet-weather

    Really? These maps show June, July and August - which I thought were the key months - to be rather drier than usual in 2024. September is shown to be wet, but I'd have thought that was after the harvest.
    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-actual-and-anomaly-maps
    Read the article - we lost last year's winter wheat, and we're going to lose this year's.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_wheat
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet weather
    Wheat haul in England estimated to be down by 21%, with Britain’s wine producers also hit hard
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/harvest-in-england-the-second-worst-on-record-because-of-wet-weather

    Really? These maps show June, July and August - which I thought were the key months - to be rather drier than usual in 2024. September is shown to be wet, but I'd have thought that was after the harvest.
    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-actual-and-anomaly-maps
    Read the article - we lost last year's winter wheat, and we're going to lose this year's.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_wheat
    Winter wheat is a new one on me! But of all the things I claim an understanding of, farming is a long way down the list. Interesting.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832

    Sandpit said:

    (In the snooker)

    Give it a rest.
    Cross or spider?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    (In the snooker)

    Give it a rest.
    Cue a string of PB puns.
    Can't we table that for the next thread ?
    After the break?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not even one party, I guess ?

    One Nation Tory group refuses to back Badenoch or Jenrick in party leadership race
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/10/centrist-conservatives-refuse-back-badenoch-jenrick-tory-reform-group-leadership-candidates-party-right
    ..One MP said they had been dismayed by the final two candidates, from whom party members will now select a winner in a postal ballot, with the result to be announced on 2 November.

    “The sound you can hear in the background is the barrel being scraped,” they said. “We have a choice of an ECHR one-trick pony, who believes our special forces murder people, and an anti-woke one-trick pony who picks endless fights. As a choice, it’s shit...

    It could be worse - they could have picked an anonymous back-biting malevolent turd like this briefer.
    I guessed you'd rise to the bait.
    We're doing snooker puns, not fishing puns.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Nigelb said:

    Seeing the video of the Big Z arriving at No. 10, I wonder how much Larry the Cat paid the Labour Party for its unrestricted pass to the building... ;)

    I misread that and thought it was about me !!!

    Should have gone to specsavers !!
    No need. If you ask Lord Alii nicely he might furnish you with a new pair. He's very generous when it comes to glasses.
    I pay for my own glasses (and clothes and football tickets) and do not need freebies to buy my favour
    I'm guessing you're not interested in free tickets to see Ms Swift either ?
    Taylor doesn't suit him? :wink:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    (In the snooker)

    Give it a rest.
    Cue a string of PB puns.
    Can't we table that for the next thread ?
    After the break?
    Would that cushion the blow ?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Labour busily shitting the bed on tax, then re-shitting it

    Because they’ve already scared off so many rich people they can’t do non doms. But hiking CGT will frighten off more rich people and investors etc

    And so the doom loop tightens

    Meanwhile the telegraph reports one reason they have a massive fiscal void is because of extreme immigration levels pressuring public services

    It’s like a machine about to explode

    The Guardian is reporting that Reeves is considering a CGT of 33-39%, despite the fact that HMRC have published estimates that a 10 percentage point raise in CGT would lead to a loss of £2bn a year to the exchequer.

    Bad news for Sandpit, rents in Dubai are about to skyrocket...
    The point isn't to raise more revenue, it's to punish the rich.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not even one party, I guess ?

    One Nation Tory group refuses to back Badenoch or Jenrick in party leadership race
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/10/centrist-conservatives-refuse-back-badenoch-jenrick-tory-reform-group-leadership-candidates-party-right
    ..One MP said they had been dismayed by the final two candidates, from whom party members will now select a winner in a postal ballot, with the result to be announced on 2 November.

    “The sound you can hear in the background is the barrel being scraped,” they said. “We have a choice of an ECHR one-trick pony, who believes our special forces murder people, and an anti-woke one-trick pony who picks endless fights. As a choice, it’s shit...

    It could be worse - they could have picked an anonymous back-biting malevolent turd like this briefer.
    I guessed you'd rise to the bait.
    We're doing snooker puns, not fishing puns.
    I was hoping you'd follow my cue.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,036
    For your viewing entertainment: https://www.gocomics.com/michaelramirez/2024/10/09
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Cookie said:

    Is Luís Montenegro the only leader of a European country that is named after another European country?

    (France once had a leader called France)

    I think our head of state used to go by the name of Charles Wales? I must admit I don't fully understand the names royalty give themselves and under what circumstances, so this may be all wrong.
    I don’t count royalty as leaders in any case. They just sit on their lazy backsides and ruminate about jewels.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,236
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet weather
    Wheat haul in England estimated to be down by 21%, with Britain’s wine producers also hit hard
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/harvest-in-england-the-second-worst-on-record-because-of-wet-weather

    Really? These maps show June, July and August - which I thought were the key months - to be rather drier than usual in 2024. September is shown to be wet, but I'd have thought that was after the harvest.
    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-actual-and-anomaly-maps
    Read the article - we lost last year's winter wheat, and we're going to lose this year's.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_wheat
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet weather
    Wheat haul in England estimated to be down by 21%, with Britain’s wine producers also hit hard
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/harvest-in-england-the-second-worst-on-record-because-of-wet-weather

    Really? These maps show June, July and August - which I thought were the key months - to be rather drier than usual in 2024. September is shown to be wet, but I'd have thought that was after the harvest.
    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-actual-and-anomaly-maps
    Read the article - we lost last year's winter wheat, and we're going to lose this year's.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_wheat
    Winter wheat is a new one on me! But of all the things I claim an understanding of, farming is a long way down the list. Interesting.
    It's an interesting biological phenomenon (because it needs a period of cold winter weather to work) and allows an additional crop in places where the summer growing season is too short for two crops, like the UK.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    (In the snooker)

    Give it a rest.
    Cue a string of PB puns.
    Can't we table that for the next thread ?
    After the break?
    Would that cushion the blow ?
    Would at least keep it at baize
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not even one party, I guess ?

    One Nation Tory group refuses to back Badenoch or Jenrick in party leadership race
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/10/centrist-conservatives-refuse-back-badenoch-jenrick-tory-reform-group-leadership-candidates-party-right
    ..One MP said they had been dismayed by the final two candidates, from whom party members will now select a winner in a postal ballot, with the result to be announced on 2 November.

    “The sound you can hear in the background is the barrel being scraped,” they said. “We have a choice of an ECHR one-trick pony, who believes our special forces murder people, and an anti-woke one-trick pony who picks endless fights. As a choice, it’s shit...

    It could be worse - they could have picked an anonymous back-biting malevolent turd like this briefer.
    I guessed you'd rise to the bait.
    We're doing snooker puns, not fishing puns.
    I was hoping you'd follow my cue.
    I'm now casting around for one which covers both, but baulked at the effort involved.
  • Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Seeing the video of the Big Z arriving at No. 10, I wonder how much Larry the Cat paid the Labour Party for its unrestricted pass to the building... ;)

    I misread that and thought it was about me !!!

    Should have gone to specsavers !!
    No need. If you ask Lord Alii nicely he might furnish you with a new pair. He's very generous when it comes to glasses.
    I pay for my own glasses (and clothes and football tickets) and do not need freebies to buy my favour
    I'm guessing you're not interested in free tickets to see Ms Swift either ?
    Taylor doesn't suit him? :wink:
    I haven't worn a suit since I retired in 2009
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    FF43 said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet weather
    Wheat haul in England estimated to be down by 21%, with Britain’s wine producers also hit hard
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/harvest-in-england-the-second-worst-on-record-because-of-wet-weather

    Really? These maps show June, July and August - which I thought were the key months - to be rather drier than usual in 2024. September is shown to be wet, but I'd have thought that was after the harvest.
    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-actual-and-anomaly-maps
    Read the article - we lost last year's winter wheat, and we're going to lose this year's.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_wheat
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet weather
    Wheat haul in England estimated to be down by 21%, with Britain’s wine producers also hit hard
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/harvest-in-england-the-second-worst-on-record-because-of-wet-weather

    Really? These maps show June, July and August - which I thought were the key months - to be rather drier than usual in 2024. September is shown to be wet, but I'd have thought that was after the harvest.
    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-actual-and-anomaly-maps
    Read the article - we lost last year's winter wheat, and we're going to lose this year's.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_wheat
    Winter wheat is a new one on me! But of all the things I claim an understanding of, farming is a long way down the list. Interesting.
    It's an interesting biological phenomenon (because it needs a period of cold winter weather to work) and allows an additional crop in places where the summer growing season is too short for two crops, like the UK.
    er, non. It is simply related to when the crop is sown or drilled. Winter wheat and winter barley is drilled in autumn or winter and is harvested in summer. Spring wheat or spring barley is drilled in spring and is harvested later in harvest than its winter drilled equivalents. There is nowhere in the UK that has an additional crop of wheat or barley to my knowledge , though double season cropping of vegetables does take place in the fens I believe
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not even one party, I guess ?

    One Nation Tory group refuses to back Badenoch or Jenrick in party leadership race
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/10/centrist-conservatives-refuse-back-badenoch-jenrick-tory-reform-group-leadership-candidates-party-right
    ..One MP said they had been dismayed by the final two candidates, from whom party members will now select a winner in a postal ballot, with the result to be announced on 2 November.

    “The sound you can hear in the background is the barrel being scraped,” they said. “We have a choice of an ECHR one-trick pony, who believes our special forces murder people, and an anti-woke one-trick pony who picks endless fights. As a choice, it’s shit...

    It could be worse - they could have picked an anonymous back-biting malevolent turd like this briefer.
    I guessed you'd rise to the bait.
    We're doing snooker puns, not fishing puns.
    Glad you tackled him on that one.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Jonathan said:

    Taz said:

    The right-wing media are making a bit of an ass of themselves over Starmer and his uncle.

    Yes, some of the resultant memes are funny. But saying 'torpedoed' rather than 'bombed' is an easy misspeak to make. It's hardly major in the context, and I wouldn't classify it as a lie. His uncle served, and was on a ship that suffered damage in battle.

    Starmer is having a bit of an unfortunate run of misspeaking, calling Sunak PM repeatedly, releasing the sausages...
    So what?
    Just saying he has is an unfortunate run where he has a number of gaffes in short succession. You are very defensive.
    I noticed at PMQs yesterday he fell into the trap of demanding an answer to 'his' question which when Sunak did that previously the Speaker reminded him it is PMs questions !!

    As for 'so what' or 'who cares' or 172 seat majority just indicates an attempt to close down the uncomfortable truth that Starmer's first 100 days has descended into freebies, cronyism and a terrible civil war in no 10 reflecting in approval poll ratings even below Sunak

    Starmer was elected on his undertaking for change and a new way of doing politics, which has disappointed many including myself as I thought he would at least be true to his word but ultimely all he has been is the same as the rest sadly
    Change the record.
    Thats the other one I forgot !!!!!
    Who are you voting for in the Tory leadership contest?
    I am not a member
    Who are you supporting?
    Badenoch as I have always been very anti Jenrick
    I fear for the nation's pearls!!!

    Total gifts and donations to Kemi in 24/25 was £274,655 according to ChatGPT – you will surely be happy to check its working?

    Graham Edwards: £12,000
    Charles Keymer: £10,000 + £40,000 = £50,000
    Robert West: £1,855
    Shaya Raymond: £5,000 + £5,000 = £10,000 (in-kind donations)
    Neil Record: £10,000
    Dean Richmond: £5,000
    David Eventhall: £10,000
    Caroline O'Kane: £5,000
    David Watson: £10,000
    James Mellon: £10,000
    Dominic Brisby: £10,000
    Martin Bellamy: £5,000
    James Emslie: £10,000
    Alison Frost: £5,000
    Dambisa Moyo: £10,000
    Douglas Shaw: £20,000

    Andrew Scott: £10,000
    Growth Financial Services: £10,000
    David Naylor Leyland: £10,000
    John Goodall: £5,000
    John Edward James: £10,000
    Roger Brookhouse: £5,000
    Quentin Marshall: £5,000
    Charles Morgan: £5,000
    Jingle Bell Ball (free tickets): £800


    Those look like donations to her office. Which are fine. Do you have more detail?
    Well as I have now said multiple times on here, this is not some secret dossier, but the REGISTER OF MEMBERS INTERESTS which is in the pubic domain and takes about three seconds to google. I mean, we all guessed that PB Tories like G hadn't even bothered to look at it – preferring instead to get their 'information' from Guido Fawkes, the man on the internet.
    You completely miss the point

    As explained in @Taz at 1.36 it is the hypocrisy that is Starmers problem

    You also have a weird idea that everyone opposed to Starmer is a right wing Tory when in my case nothing could be further from the truth

    I am a one nation conservatives and I post widely from across the media including Sky, Guardian, Times and others but you will not see a post from me from GB news

    Your problem is you seem to be in denial just how badly Starmer has been received by the public in his first 100 days and maybe accepting that would be cathartic

    Can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Whenever you are ready...
    Pointless argument going round in circles

    Look at public opinion on Starmer and his first 100 days and now honestly state that the freebies and cronyism on display from him and his colleagues has not damaged his reputation

    OF course Starmer deliberately did not make such a specific commitment as is being demanded. However it still does not mean he is not a hypocrite or guilty of doing one thing and saying another.
    Hang on, we've just established that he hasn't said another. Okay, I mean, he might have said another, down the pub, or in the kitchen when rustling up tandoori salmon. But nobody has managed to find a quote.
    What is your point when your leader is tanking in the polls and sits below Farage and as @HYUFD has just said whichever conservative is elected would have higher approval ratings than Starmer
    Ah, the crutch of 'public opinion' – a favourite of yours. I note you haven't engaged with the substantive point... again.

    Funny old world.
    There is no substantive point other than some weird idea that you are trying to justify Starmer with and cannot accept what is obvious to everyone Starmer is hopeless at politics
    He’s done pretty well for someone hopeless at politics. Most politicians would love to be that hopeless. He has to defeat a number of people to get where he got to today.

    The interesting question is what happens next. Government is different to opposition.
    You can make a similar argument for Sunak - he became PM while being actively shit at politics.

    The rather sterile debate on PB about whether Starmer is a hypocrite or not is getting very tedious. Part of his appeal while leader of the opposition was based on hammering the wrong doing of the Tories, even when said wrong doing wasn't necessarily actually wrong doing (such as redecorating No 10 etc). he excoriated repeatedly over partygate, yet was rather close to the rules for his own affairs with curry and beer. The image was of someone playing by the rules, being honest and upfront.

    And arguably, no rules have been broken by the donations of a rich man to multiple Labour MP's. It is, however, the perception that is the problem. The perception is that he is a grasping, money grubbing lawyer, never quite breaking the rules but stretching them oh so thin. And I don't think we have had the real truth about the house borrowing.

    So Anabob can keep saying - "show me where he did this, or that or the other" and Big G can point to opinion polling and never the twain will meet.

    And we can all skip gloriously past those posts...
    Nope. I keep reading words like “venal” and “corrupt” in relation to Labour MPs, without a scintilla of evidence they have been influenced by Lord Alli. If they weren’t politicians the posters (and Mike) would be at risk of libel.

    Of course, today’s flavour of the month Kemi is neither venal nor corrupt despite accepting nearly £300k in donations in the last tax year alone.

    (FWIW, I don’t think she is corrupt - politicians of all parties can and do accept and declare gifts and have done since the year dot)

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not even one party, I guess ?

    One Nation Tory group refuses to back Badenoch or Jenrick in party leadership race
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/10/centrist-conservatives-refuse-back-badenoch-jenrick-tory-reform-group-leadership-candidates-party-right
    ..One MP said they had been dismayed by the final two candidates, from whom party members will now select a winner in a postal ballot, with the result to be announced on 2 November.

    “The sound you can hear in the background is the barrel being scraped,” they said. “We have a choice of an ECHR one-trick pony, who believes our special forces murder people, and an anti-woke one-trick pony who picks endless fights. As a choice, it’s shit...

    It could be worse - they could have picked an anonymous back-biting malevolent turd like this briefer.
    I guessed you'd rise to the bait.
    We're doing snooker puns, not fishing puns.
    I was hoping you'd follow my cue.
    I mentioned "cue" upthread ;)
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not even one party, I guess ?

    One Nation Tory group refuses to back Badenoch or Jenrick in party leadership race
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/10/centrist-conservatives-refuse-back-badenoch-jenrick-tory-reform-group-leadership-candidates-party-right
    ..One MP said they had been dismayed by the final two candidates, from whom party members will now select a winner in a postal ballot, with the result to be announced on 2 November.

    “The sound you can hear in the background is the barrel being scraped,” they said. “We have a choice of an ECHR one-trick pony, who believes our special forces murder people, and an anti-woke one-trick pony who picks endless fights. As a choice, it’s shit...

    It could be worse - they could have picked an anonymous back-biting malevolent turd like this briefer.
    I guessed you'd rise to the bait.
    We're doing snooker puns, not fishing puns.
    I was hoping you'd follow my cue.
    I'm now casting around for one which covers both, but baulked at the effort involved.
    Have to chalk that one up as a defeat, I'm afraid.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    Jonathan said:

    Taz said:

    The right-wing media are making a bit of an ass of themselves over Starmer and his uncle.

    Yes, some of the resultant memes are funny. But saying 'torpedoed' rather than 'bombed' is an easy misspeak to make. It's hardly major in the context, and I wouldn't classify it as a lie. His uncle served, and was on a ship that suffered damage in battle.

    Starmer is having a bit of an unfortunate run of misspeaking, calling Sunak PM repeatedly, releasing the sausages...
    So what?
    Just saying he has is an unfortunate run where he has a number of gaffes in short succession. You are very defensive.
    I noticed at PMQs yesterday he fell into the trap of demanding an answer to 'his' question which when Sunak did that previously the Speaker reminded him it is PMs questions !!

    As for 'so what' or 'who cares' or 172 seat majority just indicates an attempt to close down the uncomfortable truth that Starmer's first 100 days has descended into freebies, cronyism and a terrible civil war in no 10 reflecting in approval poll ratings even below Sunak

    Starmer was elected on his undertaking for change and a new way of doing politics, which has disappointed many including myself as I thought he would at least be true to his word but ultimely all he has been is the same as the rest sadly
    Change the record.
    Thats the other one I forgot !!!!!
    Who are you voting for in the Tory leadership contest?
    I am not a member
    Who are you supporting?
    Badenoch as I have always been very anti Jenrick
    I fear for the nation's pearls!!!

    Total gifts and donations to Kemi in 24/25 was £274,655 according to ChatGPT – you will surely be happy to check its working?

    Graham Edwards: £12,000
    Charles Keymer: £10,000 + £40,000 = £50,000
    Robert West: £1,855
    Shaya Raymond: £5,000 + £5,000 = £10,000 (in-kind donations)
    Neil Record: £10,000
    Dean Richmond: £5,000
    David Eventhall: £10,000
    Caroline O'Kane: £5,000
    David Watson: £10,000
    James Mellon: £10,000
    Dominic Brisby: £10,000
    Martin Bellamy: £5,000
    James Emslie: £10,000
    Alison Frost: £5,000
    Dambisa Moyo: £10,000
    Douglas Shaw: £20,000

    Andrew Scott: £10,000
    Growth Financial Services: £10,000
    David Naylor Leyland: £10,000
    John Goodall: £5,000
    John Edward James: £10,000
    Roger Brookhouse: £5,000
    Quentin Marshall: £5,000
    Charles Morgan: £5,000
    Jingle Bell Ball (free tickets): £800


    Those look like donations to her office. Which are fine. Do you have more detail?
    Well as I have now said multiple times on here, this is not some secret dossier, but the REGISTER OF MEMBERS INTERESTS which is in the pubic domain and takes about three seconds to google. I mean, we all guessed that PB Tories like G hadn't even bothered to look at it – preferring instead to get their 'information' from Guido Fawkes, the man on the internet.
    You completely miss the point

    As explained in @Taz at 1.36 it is the hypocrisy that is Starmers problem

    You also have a weird idea that everyone opposed to Starmer is a right wing Tory when in my case nothing could be further from the truth

    I am a one nation conservatives and I post widely from across the media including Sky, Guardian, Times and others but you will not see a post from me from GB news

    Your problem is you seem to be in denial just how badly Starmer has been received by the public in his first 100 days and maybe accepting that would be cathartic

    Can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Whenever you are ready...
    Pointless argument going round in circles

    Look at public opinion on Starmer and his first 100 days and now honestly state that the freebies and cronyism on display from him and his colleagues has not damaged his reputation

    OF course Starmer deliberately did not make such a specific commitment as is being demanded. However it still does not mean he is not a hypocrite or guilty of doing one thing and saying another.
    Hang on, we've just established that he hasn't said another. Okay, I mean, he might have said another, down the pub, or in the kitchen when rustling up tandoori salmon. But nobody has managed to find a quote.
    What is your point when your leader is tanking in the polls and sits below Farage and as @HYUFD has just said whichever conservative is elected would have higher approval ratings than Starmer
    Ah, the crutch of 'public opinion' – a favourite of yours. I note you haven't engaged with the substantive point... again.

    Funny old world.
    There is no substantive point other than some weird idea that you are trying to justify Starmer with and cannot accept what is obvious to everyone Starmer is hopeless at politics
    He’s done pretty well for someone hopeless at politics. Most politicians would love to be that hopeless. He has to defeat a number of people to get where he got to today.

    The interesting question is what happens next. Government is different to opposition.
    You can make a similar argument for Sunak - he became PM while being actively shit at politics.

    The rather sterile debate on PB about whether Starmer is a hypocrite or not is getting very tedious. Part of his appeal while leader of the opposition was based on hammering the wrong doing of the Tories, even when said wrong doing wasn't necessarily actually wrong doing (such as redecorating No 10 etc). he excoriated repeatedly over partygate, yet was rather close to the rules for his own affairs with curry and beer. The image was of someone playing by the rules, being honest and upfront.

    And arguably, no rules have been broken by the donations of a rich man to multiple Labour MP's. It is, however, the perception that is the problem. The perception is that he is a grasping, money grubbing lawyer, never quite breaking the rules but stretching them oh so thin. And I don't think we have had the real truth about the house borrowing.

    So Anabob can keep saying - "show me where he did this, or that or the other" and Big G can point to opinion polling and never the twain will meet.

    And we can all skip gloriously past those posts...
    Nope. I keep reading words like “venal” and “corrupt” in relation to Labour MPs, without a scintilla of evidence they have been influenced by Lord Alli. If they weren’t politicians the posters (and Mike) would be at risk of libel.

    Of course, today’s flavour of the month Kemi is neither venal nor corrupt despite accepting nearly £300k in donations in the last tax year alone.

    (FWIW, I don’t think she is corrupt - politicians of all parties can and do accept and declare gifts and have done since the year dot)

    The fact is that they should not be, any of them. With Starmer it is also the scale of the gifts and the vulgar lavishness of his acceptance of them. The fact that you cannot see it makes you as pathetic as the worst apologist fanbois of Boris Johnson. "My party leader right or wrong" is your attitude. You are the Labour Party supporter equivalent of HYUFD. In fact, I think you are a Labour Party bot or Kier Starmer's mum.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,978
    Cookie said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Labour busily shitting the bed on tax, then re-shitting it

    Because they’ve already scared off so many rich people they can’t do non doms. But hiking CGT will frighten off more rich people and investors etc

    And so the doom loop tightens

    Meanwhile the telegraph reports one reason they have a massive fiscal void is because of extreme immigration levels pressuring public services

    It’s like a machine about to explode

    The Guardian is reporting that Reeves is considering a CGT of 33-39%, despite the fact that HMRC have published estimates that a 10 percentage point raise in CGT would lead to a loss of £2bn a year to the exchequer.

    Bad news for Sandpit, rents in Dubai are about to skyrocket...
    The point isn't to raise more revenue, it's to punish the rich.
    Same with VAT on Private school fees.

    However, let’s not jump the gun. It is merely a couple of things being considered

    Reeves isn’t stupid. She apparently has already discounted some measures due to them being politically desirable but not effective.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Jonathan said:

    Taz said:

    The right-wing media are making a bit of an ass of themselves over Starmer and his uncle.

    Yes, some of the resultant memes are funny. But saying 'torpedoed' rather than 'bombed' is an easy misspeak to make. It's hardly major in the context, and I wouldn't classify it as a lie. His uncle served, and was on a ship that suffered damage in battle.

    Starmer is having a bit of an unfortunate run of misspeaking, calling Sunak PM repeatedly, releasing the sausages...
    So what?
    Just saying he has is an unfortunate run where he has a number of gaffes in short succession. You are very defensive.
    I noticed at PMQs yesterday he fell into the trap of demanding an answer to 'his' question which when Sunak did that previously the Speaker reminded him it is PMs questions !!

    As for 'so what' or 'who cares' or 172 seat majority just indicates an attempt to close down the uncomfortable truth that Starmer's first 100 days has descended into freebies, cronyism and a terrible civil war in no 10 reflecting in approval poll ratings even below Sunak

    Starmer was elected on his undertaking for change and a new way of doing politics, which has disappointed many including myself as I thought he would at least be true to his word but ultimely all he has been is the same as the rest sadly
    Change the record.
    Thats the other one I forgot !!!!!
    Who are you voting for in the Tory leadership contest?
    I am not a member
    Who are you supporting?
    Badenoch as I have always been very anti Jenrick
    I fear for the nation's pearls!!!

    Total gifts and donations to Kemi in 24/25 was £274,655 according to ChatGPT – you will surely be happy to check its working?

    Graham Edwards: £12,000
    Charles Keymer: £10,000 + £40,000 = £50,000
    Robert West: £1,855
    Shaya Raymond: £5,000 + £5,000 = £10,000 (in-kind donations)
    Neil Record: £10,000
    Dean Richmond: £5,000
    David Eventhall: £10,000
    Caroline O'Kane: £5,000
    David Watson: £10,000
    James Mellon: £10,000
    Dominic Brisby: £10,000
    Martin Bellamy: £5,000
    James Emslie: £10,000
    Alison Frost: £5,000
    Dambisa Moyo: £10,000
    Douglas Shaw: £20,000

    Andrew Scott: £10,000
    Growth Financial Services: £10,000
    David Naylor Leyland: £10,000
    John Goodall: £5,000
    John Edward James: £10,000
    Roger Brookhouse: £5,000
    Quentin Marshall: £5,000
    Charles Morgan: £5,000
    Jingle Bell Ball (free tickets): £800


    Those look like donations to her office. Which are fine. Do you have more detail?
    Well as I have now said multiple times on here, this is not some secret dossier, but the REGISTER OF MEMBERS INTERESTS which is in the pubic domain and takes about three seconds to google. I mean, we all guessed that PB Tories like G hadn't even bothered to look at it – preferring instead to get their 'information' from Guido Fawkes, the man on the internet.
    You completely miss the point

    As explained in @Taz at 1.36 it is the hypocrisy that is Starmers problem

    You also have a weird idea that everyone opposed to Starmer is a right wing Tory when in my case nothing could be further from the truth

    I am a one nation conservatives and I post widely from across the media including Sky, Guardian, Times and others but you will not see a post from me from GB news

    Your problem is you seem to be in denial just how badly Starmer has been received by the public in his first 100 days and maybe accepting that would be cathartic

    Can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Whenever you are ready...
    Pointless argument going round in circles

    Look at public opinion on Starmer and his first 100 days and now honestly state that the freebies and cronyism on display from him and his colleagues has not damaged his reputation

    OF course Starmer deliberately did not make such a specific commitment as is being demanded. However it still does not mean he is not a hypocrite or guilty of doing one thing and saying another.
    Hang on, we've just established that he hasn't said another. Okay, I mean, he might have said another, down the pub, or in the kitchen when rustling up tandoori salmon. But nobody has managed to find a quote.
    What is your point when your leader is tanking in the polls and sits below Farage and as @HYUFD has just said whichever conservative is elected would have higher approval ratings than Starmer
    Ah, the crutch of 'public opinion' – a favourite of yours. I note you haven't engaged with the substantive point... again.

    Funny old world.
    There is no substantive point other than some weird idea that you are trying to justify Starmer with and cannot accept what is obvious to everyone Starmer is hopeless at politics
    He’s done pretty well for someone hopeless at politics. Most politicians would love to be that hopeless. He has to defeat a number of people to get where he got to today.

    The interesting question is what happens next. Government is different to opposition.
    You can make a similar argument for Sunak - he became PM while being actively shit at politics.

    The rather sterile debate on PB about whether Starmer is a hypocrite or not is getting very tedious. Part of his appeal while leader of the opposition was based on hammering the wrong doing of the Tories, even when said wrong doing wasn't necessarily actually wrong doing (such as redecorating No 10 etc). he excoriated repeatedly over partygate, yet was rather close to the rules for his own affairs with curry and beer. The image was of someone playing by the rules, being honest and upfront.

    And arguably, no rules have been broken by the donations of a rich man to multiple Labour MP's. It is, however, the perception that is the problem. The perception is that he is a grasping, money grubbing lawyer, never quite breaking the rules but stretching them oh so thin. And I don't think we have had the real truth about the house borrowing.

    So Anabob can keep saying - "show me where he did this, or that or the other" and Big G can point to opinion polling and never the twain will meet.

    And we can all skip gloriously past those posts...
    Nope. I keep reading words like “venal” and “corrupt” in relation to Labour MPs, without a scintilla of evidence they have been influenced by Lord Alli. If they weren’t politicians the posters (and Mike) would be at risk of libel.

    Of course, today’s flavour of the month Kemi is neither venal nor corrupt despite accepting nearly £300k in donations in the last tax year alone.

    (FWIW, I don’t think she is corrupt - politicians of all parties can and do accept and declare gifts and have done since the year dot)

    The fact is that they should not be, any of them. With Starmer it is also the scale of the gifts and the vulgar lavishness of his acceptance of them. The fact that you cannot see it makes you as pathetic as the worst apologist fanbois of Boris Johnson. "My party leader right or wrong" is your attitude. You are the Labour Party supporter equivalent of HYUFD. In fact, I think you are a Labour Party bot or Kier Starmer's mum.
    Nope. Boris was guilty of wrongdoing. Barring a late declaration - which he himself addressed before the media interest - Sir Keir has not been.

    And it’s Keir - K-E-I-R. Learn to spell.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not even one party, I guess ?

    One Nation Tory group refuses to back Badenoch or Jenrick in party leadership race
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/10/centrist-conservatives-refuse-back-badenoch-jenrick-tory-reform-group-leadership-candidates-party-right
    ..One MP said they had been dismayed by the final two candidates, from whom party members will now select a winner in a postal ballot, with the result to be announced on 2 November.

    “The sound you can hear in the background is the barrel being scraped,” they said. “We have a choice of an ECHR one-trick pony, who believes our special forces murder people, and an anti-woke one-trick pony who picks endless fights. As a choice, it’s shit...

    It could be worse - they could have picked an anonymous back-biting malevolent turd like this briefer.
    I guessed you'd rise to the bait.
    We're doing snooker puns, not fishing puns.
    I was hoping you'd follow my cue.
    I'm now casting around for one which covers both, but baulked at the effort involved.
    Have to chalk that one up as a defeat, I'm afraid.
    You framed that one very well, so well that I took it in hook line and sinker.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Labour busily shitting the bed on tax, then re-shitting it

    Because they’ve already scared off so many rich people they can’t do non doms. But hiking CGT will frighten off more rich people and investors etc

    And so the doom loop tightens

    Meanwhile the telegraph reports one reason they have a massive fiscal void is because of extreme immigration levels pressuring public services

    It’s like a machine about to explode

    The Guardian is reporting that Reeves is considering a CGT of 33-39%, despite the fact that HMRC have published estimates that a 10 percentage point raise in CGT would lead to a loss of £2bn a year to the exchequer.

    Bad news for Sandpit, rents in Dubai are about to skyrocket...
    The point isn't to raise more revenue, it's to punish the rich.
    Same with VAT on Private school fees.

    However, let’s not jump the gun. It is merely a couple of things being considered

    Reeves isn’t stupid. She apparently has already discounted some measures due to them being politically desirable but not effective.
    Indeed, myriad ideas are floated and discussed ahead of financial statements. Rachel is a bright spark, as you say. Let’s wait to see the Budget.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not even one party, I guess ?

    One Nation Tory group refuses to back Badenoch or Jenrick in party leadership race
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/10/centrist-conservatives-refuse-back-badenoch-jenrick-tory-reform-group-leadership-candidates-party-right
    ..One MP said they had been dismayed by the final two candidates, from whom party members will now select a winner in a postal ballot, with the result to be announced on 2 November.

    “The sound you can hear in the background is the barrel being scraped,” they said. “We have a choice of an ECHR one-trick pony, who believes our special forces murder people, and an anti-woke one-trick pony who picks endless fights. As a choice, it’s shit...

    It could be worse - they could have picked an anonymous back-biting malevolent turd like this briefer.
    I guessed you'd rise to the bait.
    We're doing snooker puns, not fishing puns.
    Perhaps Nigel thought you meant snook-er puns?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    Jonathan said:

    Taz said:

    The right-wing media are making a bit of an ass of themselves over Starmer and his uncle.

    Yes, some of the resultant memes are funny. But saying 'torpedoed' rather than 'bombed' is an easy misspeak to make. It's hardly major in the context, and I wouldn't classify it as a lie. His uncle served, and was on a ship that suffered damage in battle.

    Starmer is having a bit of an unfortunate run of misspeaking, calling Sunak PM repeatedly, releasing the sausages...
    So what?
    Just saying he has is an unfortunate run where he has a number of gaffes in short succession. You are very defensive.
    I noticed at PMQs yesterday he fell into the trap of demanding an answer to 'his' question which when Sunak did that previously the Speaker reminded him it is PMs questions !!

    As for 'so what' or 'who cares' or 172 seat majority just indicates an attempt to close down the uncomfortable truth that Starmer's first 100 days has descended into freebies, cronyism and a terrible civil war in no 10 reflecting in approval poll ratings even below Sunak

    Starmer was elected on his undertaking for change and a new way of doing politics, which has disappointed many including myself as I thought he would at least be true to his word but ultimely all he has been is the same as the rest sadly
    Change the record.
    Thats the other one I forgot !!!!!
    Who are you voting for in the Tory leadership contest?
    I am not a member
    Who are you supporting?
    Badenoch as I have always been very anti Jenrick
    I fear for the nation's pearls!!!

    Total gifts and donations to Kemi in 24/25 was £274,655 according to ChatGPT – you will surely be happy to check its working?

    Graham Edwards: £12,000
    Charles Keymer: £10,000 + £40,000 = £50,000
    Robert West: £1,855
    Shaya Raymond: £5,000 + £5,000 = £10,000 (in-kind donations)
    Neil Record: £10,000
    Dean Richmond: £5,000
    David Eventhall: £10,000
    Caroline O'Kane: £5,000
    David Watson: £10,000
    James Mellon: £10,000
    Dominic Brisby: £10,000
    Martin Bellamy: £5,000
    James Emslie: £10,000
    Alison Frost: £5,000
    Dambisa Moyo: £10,000
    Douglas Shaw: £20,000

    Andrew Scott: £10,000
    Growth Financial Services: £10,000
    David Naylor Leyland: £10,000
    John Goodall: £5,000
    John Edward James: £10,000
    Roger Brookhouse: £5,000
    Quentin Marshall: £5,000
    Charles Morgan: £5,000
    Jingle Bell Ball (free tickets): £800


    Those look like donations to her office. Which are fine. Do you have more detail?
    Well as I have now said multiple times on here, this is not some secret dossier, but the REGISTER OF MEMBERS INTERESTS which is in the pubic domain and takes about three seconds to google. I mean, we all guessed that PB Tories like G hadn't even bothered to look at it – preferring instead to get their 'information' from Guido Fawkes, the man on the internet.
    You completely miss the point

    As explained in @Taz at 1.36 it is the hypocrisy that is Starmers problem

    You also have a weird idea that everyone opposed to Starmer is a right wing Tory when in my case nothing could be further from the truth

    I am a one nation conservatives and I post widely from across the media including Sky, Guardian, Times and others but you will not see a post from me from GB news

    Your problem is you seem to be in denial just how badly Starmer has been received by the public in his first 100 days and maybe accepting that would be cathartic

    Can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Whenever you are ready...
    Pointless argument going round in circles

    Look at public opinion on Starmer and his first 100 days and now honestly state that the freebies and cronyism on display from him and his colleagues has not damaged his reputation

    OF course Starmer deliberately did not make such a specific commitment as is being demanded. However it still does not mean he is not a hypocrite or guilty of doing one thing and saying another.
    Hang on, we've just established that he hasn't said another. Okay, I mean, he might have said another, down the pub, or in the kitchen when rustling up tandoori salmon. But nobody has managed to find a quote.
    What is your point when your leader is tanking in the polls and sits below Farage and as @HYUFD has just said whichever conservative is elected would have higher approval ratings than Starmer
    Ah, the crutch of 'public opinion' – a favourite of yours. I note you haven't engaged with the substantive point... again.

    Funny old world.
    There is no substantive point other than some weird idea that you are trying to justify Starmer with and cannot accept what is obvious to everyone Starmer is hopeless at politics
    He’s done pretty well for someone hopeless at politics. Most politicians would love to be that hopeless. He has to defeat a number of people to get where he got to today.

    The interesting question is what happens next. Government is different to opposition.
    You can make a similar argument for Sunak - he became PM while being actively shit at politics.

    The rather sterile debate on PB about whether Starmer is a hypocrite or not is getting very tedious. Part of his appeal while leader of the opposition was based on hammering the wrong doing of the Tories, even when said wrong doing wasn't necessarily actually wrong doing (such as redecorating No 10 etc). he excoriated repeatedly over partygate, yet was rather close to the rules for his own affairs with curry and beer. The image was of someone playing by the rules, being honest and upfront.

    And arguably, no rules have been broken by the donations of a rich man to multiple Labour MP's. It is, however, the perception that is the problem. The perception is that he is a grasping, money grubbing lawyer, never quite breaking the rules but stretching them oh so thin. And I don't think we have had the real truth about the house borrowing.

    So Anabob can keep saying - "show me where he did this, or that or the other" and Big G can point to opinion polling and never the twain will meet.

    And we can all skip gloriously past those posts...
    Nope. I keep reading words like “venal” and “corrupt” in relation to Labour MPs, without a scintilla of evidence they have been influenced by Lord Alli. If they weren’t politicians the posters (and Mike) would be at risk of libel.

    Of course, today’s flavour of the month Kemi is neither venal nor corrupt despite accepting nearly £300k in donations in the last tax year alone.

    (FWIW, I don’t think she is corrupt - politicians of all parties can and do accept and declare gifts and have done since the year dot)

    The fact is that they should not be, any of them. With Starmer it is also the scale of the gifts and the vulgar lavishness of his acceptance of them. The fact that you cannot see it makes you as pathetic as the worst apologist fanbois of Boris Johnson. "My party leader right or wrong" is your attitude. You are the Labour Party supporter equivalent of HYUFD. In fact, I think you are a Labour Party bot or Kier Starmer's mum.
    Nope. Boris was guilty of wrongdoing. Barring a late declaration - which he himself addressed before the media interest - Sir Keir has not been.

    And it’s Keir - K-E-I-R. Learn to spell.
    Sorry fanbois, Sir "Kier" is a nasty boring little hypocrite who I am sure is so pure that he is not influenced let alone now in the well tailored pocket of a donor who I am sure has given him and his wife lavish gifts out of the goodness of his heart.

    It must be an interesting feeling to be so in love with a politician that you cannot question their motives. You are to KIER what MAGA fanatics are to Trump. SAD as the latter might say!
  • NEW THREAD

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Labour busily shitting the bed on tax, then re-shitting it

    Because they’ve already scared off so many rich people they can’t do non doms. But hiking CGT will frighten off more rich people and investors etc

    And so the doom loop tightens

    Meanwhile the telegraph reports one reason they have a massive fiscal void is because of extreme immigration levels pressuring public services

    It’s like a machine about to explode

    The Guardian is reporting that Reeves is considering a CGT of 33-39%, despite the fact that HMRC have published estimates that a 10 percentage point raise in CGT would lead to a loss of £2bn a year to the exchequer.

    Bad news for Sandpit, rents in Dubai are about to skyrocket...
    The point isn't to raise more revenue, it's to punish the rich.
    Same with VAT on Private school fees.

    However, let’s not jump the gun. It is merely a couple of things being considered

    Reeves isn’t stupid. She apparently has already discounted some measures due to them being politically desirable but not effective.
    I am not convinced that will stop them.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,755

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Labour busily shitting the bed on tax, then re-shitting it

    Because they’ve already scared off so many rich people they can’t do non doms. But hiking CGT will frighten off more rich people and investors etc

    And so the doom loop tightens

    Meanwhile the telegraph reports one reason they have a massive fiscal void is because of extreme immigration levels pressuring public services

    It’s like a machine about to explode

    The Guardian is reporting that Reeves is considering a CGT of 33-39%, despite the fact that HMRC have published estimates that a 10 percentage point raise in CGT would lead to a loss of £2bn a year to the exchequer.

    Bad news for Sandpit, rents in Dubai are about to skyrocket...
    The point isn't to raise more revenue, it's to punish the rich.
    Same with VAT on Private school fees.

    However, let’s not jump the gun. It is merely a couple of things being considered

    Reeves isn’t stupid. She apparently has already discounted some measures due to them being politically desirable but not effective.
    Indeed, myriad ideas are floated and discussed ahead of financial statements. Rachel is a bright spark, as you say. Let’s wait to see the Budget.
    She’s the weakest link in this government. Starmer would do well to rotate her out in the new year.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443

    The right-wing media are making a bit of an ass of themselves over Starmer and his uncle.

    Yes, some of the resultant memes are funny. But saying 'torpedoed' rather than 'bombed' is an easy misspeak to make. It's hardly major in the context, and I wouldn't classify it as a lie. His uncle served, and was on a ship that suffered damage in battle.

    Starmer is having a bit of an unfortunate run of misspeaking, calling Sunak PM repeatedly, releasing the sausages...
    So what?
    Just saying he has is an unfortunate run where he has a number of gaffes in short succession. You are very defensive.
    I noticed at PMQs yesterday he fell into the trap of demanding an answer to 'his' question which when Sunak did that previously the Speaker reminded him it is PMs questions !!

    As for 'so what' or 'who cares' or 172 seat majority just indicates an attempt to close down the uncomfortable truth that Starmer's first 100 days has descended into freebies, cronyism and a terrible civil war in no 10 reflecting in approval poll ratings even below Sunak

    Starmer was elected on his undertaking for change and a new way of doing politics, which has disappointed many including myself as I thought he would at least be true to his word but ultimely all he has been is the same as the rest sadly
    Change the record.
    Thats the other one I forgot !!!!!
    Who are you voting for in the Tory leadership contest?
    I am not a member
    Who are you supporting?
    Badenoch as I have always been very anti Jenrick
    I fear for the nation's pearls!!!

    Total gifts and donations to Kemi in 24/25 was £274,655 according to ChatGPT – you will surely be happy to check its working?

    Graham Edwards: £12,000
    Charles Keymer: £10,000 + £40,000 = £50,000
    Robert West: £1,855
    Shaya Raymond: £5,000 + £5,000 = £10,000 (in-kind donations)
    Neil Record: £10,000
    Dean Richmond: £5,000
    David Eventhall: £10,000
    Caroline O'Kane: £5,000
    David Watson: £10,000
    James Mellon: £10,000
    Dominic Brisby: £10,000
    Martin Bellamy: £5,000
    James Emslie: £10,000
    Alison Frost: £5,000
    Dambisa Moyo: £10,000
    Douglas Shaw: £20,000

    Andrew Scott: £10,000
    Growth Financial Services: £10,000
    David Naylor Leyland: £10,000
    John Goodall: £5,000
    John Edward James: £10,000
    Roger Brookhouse: £5,000
    Quentin Marshall: £5,000
    Charles Morgan: £5,000
    Jingle Bell Ball (free tickets): £800


    Those look like donations to her office. Which are fine. Do you have more detail?
    Well as I have now said multiple times on here, this is not some secret dossier, but the REGISTER OF MEMBERS INTERESTS which is in the pubic domain and takes about three seconds to google. I mean, we all guessed that PB Tories like G hadn't even bothered to look at it – preferring instead to get their 'information' from Guido Fawkes, the man on the internet.
    You completely miss the point

    As explained in @Taz at 1.36 it is the hypocrisy that is Starmers problem

    You also have a weird idea that everyone opposed to Starmer is a right wing Tory when in my case nothing could be further from the truth

    I am a one nation conservatives and I post widely from across the media including Sky, Guardian, Times and others but you will not see a post from me from GB news

    Your problem is you seem to be in denial just how badly Starmer has been received by the public in his first 100 days and maybe accepting that would be cathartic

    Can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Whenever you are ready...

    Pointless argument going round in circles

    Look at public opinion on Starmer and his first 100 days and now honestly state that the freebies and cronyism on display from him and his colleagues has not damaged his reputation

    Sorry, again – I'm not talking about "public opinion", or what some hypocritical hack on 'Sky News' said, or what you read on 'PB'. I'm talking about facts.

    I ask again, can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Take your time.
    It’s very simple.

    Lord Alli has created a web of obligations among his colleagues based on his generosity. That is wrong.

    In the financial services sector, for example, financial gifts to colleagues are banned. Why should it be acceptable (not “within the rules”) in politics?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Labour busily shitting the bed on tax, then re-shitting it

    Because they’ve already scared off so many rich people they can’t do non doms. But hiking CGT will frighten off more rich people and investors etc

    And so the doom loop tightens

    Meanwhile the telegraph reports one reason they have a massive fiscal void is because of extreme immigration levels pressuring public services

    It’s like a machine about to explode

    The Guardian is reporting that Reeves is considering a CGT of 33-39%, despite the fact that HMRC have published estimates that a 10 percentage point raise in CGT would lead to a loss of £2bn a year to the exchequer.

    Bad news for Sandpit, rents in Dubai are about to skyrocket...
    The point isn't to raise more revenue, it's to punish the rich.
    Same with VAT on Private school fees.

    However, let’s not jump the gun. It is merely a couple of things being considered

    Reeves isn’t stupid. She apparently has already discounted some measures due to them being politically desirable but not effective.
    I am not convinced that will stop them.
    The way the Guardian is reporting it (describing it as "disarray" and linking to the July HMRC report suggesting it will cost 2bn, like the Chancellor is the last person in the UK who hasn't read it) strongly suggests Reeves is wedded to the idea for ideological reasons, and an anonymous civil servant at the Treasury is quietly doing a Sir Humphrey - "if you insist on doing this damn silly thing, don't do it in this damn silly way".
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    moonshine said:

    Taz said:

    Cookie said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    Labour busily shitting the bed on tax, then re-shitting it

    Because they’ve already scared off so many rich people they can’t do non doms. But hiking CGT will frighten off more rich people and investors etc

    And so the doom loop tightens

    Meanwhile the telegraph reports one reason they have a massive fiscal void is because of extreme immigration levels pressuring public services

    It’s like a machine about to explode

    The Guardian is reporting that Reeves is considering a CGT of 33-39%, despite the fact that HMRC have published estimates that a 10 percentage point raise in CGT would lead to a loss of £2bn a year to the exchequer.

    Bad news for Sandpit, rents in Dubai are about to skyrocket...
    The point isn't to raise more revenue, it's to punish the rich.
    Same with VAT on Private school fees.

    However, let’s not jump the gun. It is merely a couple of things being considered

    Reeves isn’t stupid. She apparently has already discounted some measures due to them being politically desirable but not effective.
    Indeed, myriad ideas are floated and discussed ahead of financial statements. Rachel is a bright spark, as you say. Let’s wait to see the Budget.
    She’s the weakest link in this government. Starmer would do well to rotate her out in the new year.
    LOL
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Jonathan said:

    Taz said:

    The right-wing media are making a bit of an ass of themselves over Starmer and his uncle.

    Yes, some of the resultant memes are funny. But saying 'torpedoed' rather than 'bombed' is an easy misspeak to make. It's hardly major in the context, and I wouldn't classify it as a lie. His uncle served, and was on a ship that suffered damage in battle.

    Starmer is having a bit of an unfortunate run of misspeaking, calling Sunak PM repeatedly, releasing the sausages...
    So what?
    Just saying he has is an unfortunate run where he has a number of gaffes in short succession. You are very defensive.
    I noticed at PMQs yesterday he fell into the trap of demanding an answer to 'his' question which when Sunak did that previously the Speaker reminded him it is PMs questions !!

    As for 'so what' or 'who cares' or 172 seat majority just indicates an attempt to close down the uncomfortable truth that Starmer's first 100 days has descended into freebies, cronyism and a terrible civil war in no 10 reflecting in approval poll ratings even below Sunak

    Starmer was elected on his undertaking for change and a new way of doing politics, which has disappointed many including myself as I thought he would at least be true to his word but ultimely all he has been is the same as the rest sadly
    Change the record.
    Thats the other one I forgot !!!!!
    Who are you voting for in the Tory leadership contest?
    I am not a member
    Who are you supporting?
    Badenoch as I have always been very anti Jenrick
    I fear for the nation's pearls!!!

    Total gifts and donations to Kemi in 24/25 was £274,655 according to ChatGPT – you will surely be happy to check its working?

    Graham Edwards: £12,000
    Charles Keymer: £10,000 + £40,000 = £50,000
    Robert West: £1,855
    Shaya Raymond: £5,000 + £5,000 = £10,000 (in-kind donations)
    Neil Record: £10,000
    Dean Richmond: £5,000
    David Eventhall: £10,000
    Caroline O'Kane: £5,000
    David Watson: £10,000
    James Mellon: £10,000
    Dominic Brisby: £10,000
    Martin Bellamy: £5,000
    James Emslie: £10,000
    Alison Frost: £5,000
    Dambisa Moyo: £10,000
    Douglas Shaw: £20,000

    Andrew Scott: £10,000
    Growth Financial Services: £10,000
    David Naylor Leyland: £10,000
    John Goodall: £5,000
    John Edward James: £10,000
    Roger Brookhouse: £5,000
    Quentin Marshall: £5,000
    Charles Morgan: £5,000
    Jingle Bell Ball (free tickets): £800


    Those look like donations to her office. Which are fine. Do you have more detail?
    Well as I have now said multiple times on here, this is not some secret dossier, but the REGISTER OF MEMBERS INTERESTS which is in the pubic domain and takes about three seconds to google. I mean, we all guessed that PB Tories like G hadn't even bothered to look at it – preferring instead to get their 'information' from Guido Fawkes, the man on the internet.
    You completely miss the point

    As explained in @Taz at 1.36 it is the hypocrisy that is Starmers problem

    You also have a weird idea that everyone opposed to Starmer is a right wing Tory when in my case nothing could be further from the truth

    I am a one nation conservatives and I post widely from across the media including Sky, Guardian, Times and others but you will not see a post from me from GB news

    Your problem is you seem to be in denial just how badly Starmer has been received by the public in his first 100 days and maybe accepting that would be cathartic

    Can you point me to the part where Sir Keir said MPs shouldn't accept declared gifts? Whenever you are ready...
    Pointless argument going round in circles

    Look at public opinion on Starmer and his first 100 days and now honestly state that the freebies and cronyism on display from him and his colleagues has not damaged his reputation

    OF course Starmer deliberately did not make such a specific commitment as is being demanded. However it still does not mean he is not a hypocrite or guilty of doing one thing and saying another.
    Hang on, we've just established that he hasn't said another. Okay, I mean, he might have said another, down the pub, or in the kitchen when rustling up tandoori salmon. But nobody has managed to find a quote.
    What is your point when your leader is tanking in the polls and sits below Farage and as @HYUFD has just said whichever conservative is elected would have higher approval ratings than Starmer
    Ah, the crutch of 'public opinion' – a favourite of yours. I note you haven't engaged with the substantive point... again.

    Funny old world.
    There is no substantive point other than some weird idea that you are trying to justify Starmer with and cannot accept what is obvious to everyone Starmer is hopeless at politics
    He’s done pretty well for someone hopeless at politics. Most politicians would love to be that hopeless. He has to defeat a number of people to get where he got to today.

    The interesting question is what happens next. Government is different to opposition.
    You can make a similar argument for Sunak - he became PM while being actively shit at politics.

    The rather sterile debate on PB about whether Starmer is a hypocrite or not is getting very tedious. Part of his appeal while leader of the opposition was based on hammering the wrong doing of the Tories, even when said wrong doing wasn't necessarily actually wrong doing (such as redecorating No 10 etc). he excoriated repeatedly over partygate, yet was rather close to the rules for his own affairs with curry and beer. The image was of someone playing by the rules, being honest and upfront.

    And arguably, no rules have been broken by the donations of a rich man to multiple Labour MP's. It is, however, the perception that is the problem. The perception is that he is a grasping, money grubbing lawyer, never quite breaking the rules but stretching them oh so thin. And I don't think we have had the real truth about the house borrowing.

    So Anabob can keep saying - "show me where he did this, or that or the other" and Big G can point to opinion polling and never the twain will meet.

    And we can all skip gloriously past those posts...
    Nope. I keep reading words like “venal” and “corrupt” in relation to Labour MPs, without a scintilla of evidence they have been influenced by Lord Alli. If they weren’t politicians the posters (and Mike) would be at risk of libel.

    Of course, today’s flavour of the month Kemi is neither venal nor corrupt despite accepting nearly £300k in donations in the last tax year alone.

    (FWIW, I don’t think she is corrupt - politicians of all parties can and do accept and declare gifts and have done since the year dot)

    The fact is that they should not be, any of them. With Starmer it is also the scale of the gifts and the vulgar lavishness of his acceptance of them. The fact that you cannot see it makes you as pathetic as the worst apologist fanbois of Boris Johnson. "My party leader right or wrong" is your attitude. You are the Labour Party supporter equivalent of HYUFD. In fact, I think you are a Labour Party bot or Kier Starmer's mum.
    Nope. Boris was guilty of wrongdoing. Barring a late declaration - which he himself addressed before the media interest - Sir Keir has not been.

    And it’s Keir - K-E-I-R. Learn to spell.
    Sorry fanbois, Sir "Kier" is a nasty boring little hypocrite who I am sure is so pure that he is not influenced let alone now in the well tailored pocket of a donor who I am sure has given him and his wife lavish gifts out of the goodness of his heart.

    It must be an interesting feeling to be so in love with a politician that you cannot question their motives. You are to KIER what MAGA fanatics are to Trump. SAD as the latter might say!
    LOL
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Seeing the video of the Big Z arriving at No. 10, I wonder how much Larry the Cat paid the Labour Party for its unrestricted pass to the building... ;)

    I misread that and thought it was about me !!!

    Should have gone to specsavers !!
    No need. If you ask Lord Alii nicely he might furnish you with a new pair. He's very generous when it comes to glasses.
    I pay for my own glasses (and clothes and football tickets) and do not need freebies to buy my favour
    I'm guessing you're not interested in free tickets to see Ms Swift either ?
    Taylor doesn't suit him? :wink:
    I haven't worn a suit since I retired in 2009
    I wore one to my grandson's wedding four (I think, Mrs C will know) years ago.
    Otherwise I've been to a few funerals. Increasingly often nowadays, and I can't tie my tie properly.
This discussion has been closed.