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Jenrick continues his surge in the betting markets – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    I think you're being a bit generous.

    If Carlson had him on the show, and had peppered him with difficult questions, and held his views up to scrutiny, it would be one thing.

    But he didn't. On the contrary he introduced him as one on the greatest American historians, and didn't push back against Cooper's claim that millions of deaths in concentration camps were due to the Nazis being "unprepared" for war, rather than a deliberate genocidal plan against Jews. Nor did Tucker really question Cooper's portrayal of Winston Churchill as the "chief villain" of World War II.

    I guess I’ll have to listen to it again then, all three hours of it. On first listening, I thought Tucker pushed back a fair bit but obviously stopped short of calling him a racist to his face, rather letting Cooper’s own words do the talking on that front.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,794
    edited September 17
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    I knew Sophie when she was still Roger :smile:
    I first met her when she was living as Sophie, so that's what I called her.

    Not everyone was so kind. Sadly.

    I was just in awe to be working in the same building as one of my heroes.

    Since I'm on a nostalgia-fest, when I was studying geo eng at QMW in London, I used to watch people walking into the VLSI chip-design rooms and see them as heroes. They design chips!!!!. A few years later I was working at Acorn with chip designers, then later on at a company that designed chips, and finally I married a chip designer.

    Chip designers are no longer my heroes... ;)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    I knew Sophie when she was still Roger :smile:
    I first met her when she was living as Sophie, so that's what I called her.

    Not everyone was so kind. Sadly.

    I was just in awe to be working in the same building as one of my heroes.

    Since I'm on a nostalgia-fest, when I was studying geo eng at QMW in London, I used to watch people walking into the VLSI chip-design rooms and see them as heroes. They design chips!!!!. A few years later I was working at Acorn with chip designers, then later on at a company that designed chips, and finally I married a chip designer.

    Chip designers are no longer my heroes... ;)
    Now I'm getting nostalgic.

    We learnt to design VLSI chips in my final year of comp sci way back in early 1980s. So cool. The textbook was the classic Carver Mead and Lynn Conway. Beautiful full colour illustrates. I still have it somewhere on my shelves.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,794

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    I knew Sophie when she was still Roger :smile:
    I first met her when she was living as Sophie, so that's what I called her.

    Not everyone was so kind. Sadly.

    I was just in awe to be working in the same building as one of my heroes.

    Since I'm on a nostalgia-fest, when I was studying geo eng at QMW in London, I used to watch people walking into the VLSI chip-design rooms and see them as heroes. They design chips!!!!. A few years later I was working at Acorn with chip designers, then later on at a company that designed chips, and finally I married a chip designer.

    Chip designers are no longer my heroes... ;)
    Well, surely 1 is?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    In more Trafalgar fun, the bow-tied one has Trump ahead in Georgia by less than 2 points. I think last time out, or maybe 2016, he overstated Trump across the board by 4

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/GA-24-General-0916_Report.pdf

    I don't believe that Trafalgar actually performs polls, so I would pay no attention. My gut is that he is putting out Dem favourable ones now, so that later he can spin the narrative of a Trump surge.
    Highly likely. Bowtie Bob should be ignored regardless of which way his polling points. He had Kamala up in NV a few days ago. It’s irrelevant because he is a non-pollster.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    I knew Sophie when she was still Roger :smile:
    I first met her when she was living as Sophie, so that's what I called her.

    Not everyone was so kind. Sadly.

    I was just in awe to be working in the same building as one of my heroes.

    Since I'm on a nostalgia-fest, when I was studying geo eng at QMW in London, I used to watch people walking into the VLSI chip-design rooms and see them as heroes. They design chips!!!!. A few years later I was working at Acorn with chip designers, then later on at a company that designed chips, and finally I married a chip designer.

    Chip designers are no longer my heroes... ;)
    Well, surely 1 is?
    She's an exception to the rule... :)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
  • rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    I knew Sophie when she was still Roger :smile:
    I first met her when she was living as Sophie, so that's what I called her.

    Not everyone was so kind. Sadly.

    I was just in awe to be working in the same building as one of my heroes.

    Since I'm on a nostalgia-fest, when I was studying geo eng at QMW in London, I used to watch people walking into the VLSI chip-design rooms and see them as heroes. They design chips!!!!. A few years later I was working at Acorn with chip designers, then later on at a company that designed chips, and finally I married a chip designer.

    Chip designers are no longer my heroes... ;)
    On topic of chip design, personally have tremendous admiration for the inventor(s) of Pringles; the math involved in cramming as many as possible into the can MUST have been epic.

    This despite the fact that I do NOT recommend actually eating Pringle potato chips . . . or "crisps" as you UKers quaitly say just in your Olde English argot, just to amuse us USer. . .
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    That's it exactly. "But we're the good guys."
    The flipside being that the Left tend to be held to higher standards. Eg you're a "hypocrite" by dint of succeeding (materially) in the capitalist society you say is deeply flawed.
    I don't think that's it. It's more that when you spend years shouting 'grifters' and then get caught grifting within two months of taking office, reaction tends not to be too sympathetic.
    I wasn't thinking about the Starmer clothes thing there, I was more making a separate but related point that goes in the other direction.
  • DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    They appear to have taken the FBI playbook of Anom scheme of selling secure messaging phones with god mode to the worlds criminals and put that on steriods.

    https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/23/24163389/joseph-cox-dark-wire-fbi-phone-startup-anom-criminals-secure-messaging-decoder-interview
    Unfortunately for them, there isn't really a money equivalent of cash when it comes to communication devices.
  • For BigG, a visit to Poole including RNLI College (college starts at 17.47) by wandering Scot.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aun52iNQgiw
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,636
    edited September 17
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
    There's a supermarket CCTV. The guy just sort of goes pop at waist level and it looks very localised. There's an intriguing younger guy who just mooches around after the event, completely unperturbed. Either a mossad observer or a major weed smoker.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Does Equity know about these mysterious "crisis actors"?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    mercator said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
    There's a supermarket CCTV. The guy just sort of goes pop at waist level and it looks very localised. There's an intriguing younger guy who just mooches around after the event, completely unperturbed. Either a mossad observer or a major weed smoker.
    Yes. The videos show literally the most precise and forensic bombing in military history. Hezbollah fighter goes bang around the groin, woman next to him entirely unharmed

    That’s about as good as it gets, if you MUST have a war
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Does Equity know about these mysterious "crisis actors"?
    You don't understand that Equity is a core part of the conspiracy?

    Wake up, sheeple.
  • Whole point of "interviewing" a notorious Holocaust denying "historian", though NOT one as scholarly as (even) David Irving, is NOT to consider realities and meanings of WW2 or anything else.

    EXCEPT that is, for dog-whistling in the Fall of 2024, to Nazis, anti-Semites, racists, skinheads, etc. on outer fringes of reactionary-populist right-wing. All part of the effort to rally potential voters, including habitual non-voters, behind Donal Trump.

    Especially as DJT's rather pathetic but nevertheless strategic attempts to veer toward middle-ground policy-wise, are causing muttering among the Nazi element of his coalition, similar to those among the Evangelical wing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Is it distorted? The A in ARM originally stood for Acorn.
    I never knew that... ;)
    I do remember as a young teenager using Archimedes computers at school, and then seeing about five years later windows for workgroups on my open day to university and wondering why it was so slow and ugly to look at ...
    RISC OS as used by the Archimedes (not Arthur, the original 1987 stopgap OS introduced when the US team failed us...) was a great OS, with some usability features that are still not common in many other OSs.

    I've so many happy memories of working on that near the company's end (sobs...)
    Didn't it rely on cooperative multitasking, which meant one errant process could take down the whole machine?

    Zarch, on the other hand, was one of the greatest games of all time.
    Yep, RISC OS was co-operative multitasking. There was a plan to make it preemptive, but the top management were never interested. Someone came up with a rather clever way that the existing API could be made to work with a new ?scheduler? . It would have involved having the kernel rewritten in C from asm, but that would also have fixed the 26-bit to 32-bit work that was required.

    It may have been co-operative, but what it did, it did very very well.

    And here's the thing. De management said that no-one would buy RISC OS because it was co-operative. Yet (from memory...) Macs only got preemptive with OS X in 2001...
    Macs in the late 1990s were pretty awful though.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,636
    mercator said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
    There's a supermarket CCTV. The guy just sort of goes pop at waist level and it looks very localised. There's an intriguing younger guy who just mooches around after the event, completely unperturbed. Either a mossad observer or a major weed smoker.
    That's not unusual. Lawyer friend of mine completely froze during the Borough market attack, had to get dragged inside by a waiter at a nearby restaurant.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Is it distorted? The A in ARM originally stood for Acorn.
    I never knew that... ;)
    I do remember as a young teenager using Archimedes computers at school, and then seeing about five years later windows for workgroups on my open day to university and wondering why it was so slow and ugly to look at ...
    RISC OS as used by the Archimedes (not Arthur, the original 1987 stopgap OS introduced when the US team failed us...) was a great OS, with some usability features that are still not common in many other OSs.

    I've so many happy memories of working on that near the company's end (sobs...)
    Didn't it rely on cooperative multitasking, which meant one errant process could take down the whole machine?

    Zarch, on the other hand, was one of the greatest games of all time.
    Yep, RISC OS was co-operative multitasking. There was a plan to make it preemptive, but the top management were never interested. Someone came up with a rather clever way that the existing API could be made to work with a new ?scheduler? . It would have involved having the kernel rewritten in C from asm, but that would also have fixed the 26-bit to 32-bit work that was required.

    It may have been co-operative, but what it did, it did very very well.

    And here's the thing. De management said that no-one would buy RISC OS because it was co-operative. Yet (from memory...) Macs only got preemptive with OS X in 2001...
    Macs in the late 1990s were pretty awful though.
    I remember my first G3. Awesome machine. 1.5Gb hard drive.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    Turns out the pager was invented by… a Jew

    https://x.com/oliaonx/status/1836057413016793223?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    And thus begins the life cycle of a million new conspiracy theories
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Cookie said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    That's it exactly. "But we're the good guys."
    It is like the approach to social unrest and disorder. It is ok - if it is in pursuit of 'progress'.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,794
    Leon said:

    mercator said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
    There's a supermarket CCTV. The guy just sort of goes pop at waist level and it looks very localised. There's an intriguing younger guy who just mooches around after the event, completely unperturbed. Either a mossad observer or a major weed smoker.
    Yes. The videos show literally the most precise and forensic bombing in military history. Hezbollah fighter goes bang around the groin, woman next to him entirely unharmed

    That’s about as good as it gets, if you MUST have a war
    This is utter fantasy. There are over 2000 people injured.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,576
    Leon said:

    mercator said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
    There's a supermarket CCTV. The guy just sort of goes pop at waist level and it looks very localised. There's an intriguing younger guy who just mooches around after the event, completely unperturbed. Either a mossad observer or a major weed smoker.
    Yes. The videos show literally the most precise and forensic bombing in military history. Hezbollah fighter goes bang around the groin, woman next to him entirely unharmed

    That’s about as good as it gets, if you MUST have a war
    And if you must have a war, you'd better be able to control the supply chain for your electronic gadgets.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    Constantly surprised by the sheer volume of twitter types who seem to think you can carry out modern warfare without civilians being hurt or killed. It's like the 20th century never happened and we are still lining up squares of riflemen on the rain swept fields of Waterloo.

    War is f*cking horrible and best avoided if at all possible by diplomacy. But sometimes...
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,636
    edited September 17
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    mercator said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
    There's a supermarket CCTV. The guy just sort of goes pop at waist level and it looks very localised. There's an intriguing younger guy who just mooches around after the event, completely unperturbed. Either a mossad observer or a major weed smoker.
    Yes. The videos show literally the most precise and forensic bombing in military history. Hezbollah fighter goes bang around the groin, woman next to him entirely unharmed

    That’s about as good as it gets, if you MUST have a war
    This is utter fantasy. There are over 2000 people injured.
    The suggestion is that they are almost all Hezbollah, an organisation wiki thinks is 100,000 strong.

    Now, if it turns out hundreds of doctors and nurses have lost hands/groins to this attack, then I'll be the first to call it out. But no evidence of that yet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    mercator said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
    There's a supermarket CCTV. The guy just sort of goes pop at waist level and it looks very localised. There's an intriguing younger guy who just mooches around after the event, completely unperturbed. Either a mossad observer or a major weed smoker.
    Yes. The videos show literally the most precise and forensic bombing in military history. Hezbollah fighter goes bang around the groin, woman next to him entirely unharmed

    That’s about as good as it gets, if you MUST have a war
    This is utter fantasy. There are over 2000 people injured.
    I’ve seen multiple videos. They all show Hezbollah fighters collapsing in bloody agony (which is sad and horrible, but this is a war and they are fighters). I haven’t seen one yet which shows “collateral damage”

    But do please adduce evidence for your claim of “thousands of innocent civilians injured”. It is surely out there
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,568
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    mercator said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
    There's a supermarket CCTV. The guy just sort of goes pop at waist level and it looks very localised. There's an intriguing younger guy who just mooches around after the event, completely unperturbed. Either a mossad observer or a major weed smoker.
    Yes. The videos show literally the most precise and forensic bombing in military history. Hezbollah fighter goes bang around the groin, woman next to him entirely unharmed

    That’s about as good as it gets, if you MUST have a war
    This is utter fantasy. There are over 2000 people injured.
    How many pagers blew up?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    edited September 17
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    mercator said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
    There's a supermarket CCTV. The guy just sort of goes pop at waist level and it looks very localised. There's an intriguing younger guy who just mooches around after the event, completely unperturbed. Either a mossad observer or a major weed smoker.
    Yes. The videos show literally the most precise and forensic bombing in military history. Hezbollah fighter goes bang around the groin, woman next to him entirely unharmed

    That’s about as good as it gets, if you MUST have a war
    This is utter fantasy. There are over 2000 people injured.
    Because there are thousands of Hezbollah operatives, and they're all legitimate targets.

    What would you prefer over Hezbollah operatives own Hezbollah -issued devices being blown up hitting the Hezbollah operatives? A blanket bombing of Lebanon?

    And its worth noting that these were pagers too, so not something that the operatives would lend to kids to watch YouTube on.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,794
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    mercator said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
    There's a supermarket CCTV. The guy just sort of goes pop at waist level and it looks very localised. There's an intriguing younger guy who just mooches around after the event, completely unperturbed. Either a mossad observer or a major weed smoker.
    Yes. The videos show literally the most precise and forensic bombing in military history. Hezbollah fighter goes bang around the groin, woman next to him entirely unharmed

    That’s about as good as it gets, if you MUST have a war
    This is utter fantasy. There are over 2000 people injured.
    I’ve seen multiple videos. They all show Hezbollah fighters collapsing in bloody agony (which is sad and horrible, but this is a war and they are fighters). I haven’t seen one yet which shows “collateral damage”

    But do please adduce evidence for your claim of “thousands of innocent civilians injured”. It is surely out there
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwyl9048gx8t
  • For BigG, a visit to Poole including RNLI College (college starts at 17.47) by wandering Scot.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aun52iNQgiw

    Yes and the crews are really put to test and pass to progress to helm

    https://youtu.be/8X7Q0WLYNDk?si=sDnfdI_Nf2Wh1Gm3
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,022
    Eabhal said:

    This pager story is mad. Like something you'd read in Horowitz's Alex Rider series.

    Scary how much punch a tiny pager can have stuffed into it. Gruesome.

    Doesn't need much punch if it's in your trouser pocket.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,811
    Just catching up on this pager story. Absolutely bonkers. It’s like something out of a Bond film.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    mercator said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.

    So now Israel isn’t allowed to target INDIVIDUAL Hezbollah fighters, young men who would shoot Israeli kids on sight given the chance

    Why not just admit it. You don’t believe Israel has the right to defend herself. Ergo, you don’t believe Israel should exist
    1) It would be much better if the Israelis weren't killing lots of people, and some other solution could be found
    2) If they are going to kill people, mad explosive pager thing is by far the best way to go about it
    There's a supermarket CCTV. The guy just sort of goes pop at waist level and it looks very localised. There's an intriguing younger guy who just mooches around after the event, completely unperturbed. Either a mossad observer or a major weed smoker.
    Yes. The videos show literally the most precise and forensic bombing in military history. Hezbollah fighter goes bang around the groin, woman next to him entirely unharmed

    That’s about as good as it gets, if you MUST have a war
    This is utter fantasy. There are over 2000 people injured.
    I’ve seen multiple videos. They all show Hezbollah fighters collapsing in bloody agony (which is sad and horrible, but this is a war and they are fighters). I haven’t seen one yet which shows “collateral damage”

    But do please adduce evidence for your claim of “thousands of innocent civilians injured”. It is surely out there
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwyl9048gx8t
    There is no evidence at all, in that report, of “thousands of innocent civilians injured”
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,191

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Does Equity know about these mysterious "crisis actors"?
    Indeed. Though the news that Churchill is on substack is more surprising. Though, given his history with getting a maximum return on his journalistic efforts, going paywall is not eyebrow raising.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,191
    Also could people stop misspelling Fucker Carlson’s name?

    It’s like calling Twatter, Twitter.
  • Thinking very seriously about which pocket to put my mobile phone in. Have opted not to go for left trouser.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Does Equity know about these mysterious "crisis actors"?
    Indeed. Though the news that Churchill is on substack is more surprising. Though, given his history with getting a maximum return on his journalistic efforts, going paywall is not eyebrow raising.
    Early 21st century history will be kind to me, for I intend to write it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    Dominic Cummings: "Voters didn't vote for bullshit Treasury spreadsheets"

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Does Equity know about these mysterious "crisis actors"?
    Indeed. Though the news that Churchill is on substack is more surprising. Though, given his history with getting a maximum return on his journalistic efforts, going paywall is not eyebrow raising.
    I've seen his substack. The whole thing is about bricklaying. Dull.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Thinking very seriously about which pocket to put my mobile phone in. Have opted not to go for left trouser.

    I’m going to carry my new iPhone 16 pro max in a handy lead-lined one metre long concrete casket. And always have it on Airplane mode so no signal can reach it
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Oh god. Delingpole. As so often I wonder about the 'mad' v 'bad' v 'sad' dynamic with these guys. Not that it really matters, I suppose. All you can assess is the output. The rest is a mystery, maybe even to them.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,484
    Could we get the chaps who made the pagers to do a load of I-phones, let the bike muggers see them and pinch them then blow them up. Do it all one weekend for maximum effect.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited September 17
    One of the lesser reported parts of the Huw Edwards paedo scandal is the guy selling the child pron to multiple people didn't get prison time either. I find that quite amazing.
  • boulay said:

    Could we get the chaps who made the pagers to do a load of I-phones, let the bike muggers see them and pinch them then blow them up. Do it all one weekend for maximum effect.

    That would certainly bump Starmer's popularity ratings upwards.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    edited September 17
    More info from TwiX. Allegedly

    “Additional info on the operation:

    Sky News Arabic quotes an Israeli military source:

    - The Mossad placed explosives inside the batteries of the communication devices and detonated them by remotely increasing the battery temperature.

    - They used PETN, a stable explosive, instead of other types of explosives for this operation.

    - PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known in the world. It is sensitive to heat and friction, which may explain the explosion mechanism.

    - The explosive material was inserted before the devices reached Hezbollah.

    - Hezbollah’s supply chain was infiltrated.

    - Al Jazeera adds further details: 20 grams of explosives were placed in each device, and Hezbollah began using them 5 months ago.”
  • mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Does Equity know about these mysterious "crisis actors"?
    Indeed. Though the news that Churchill is on substack is more surprising. Though, given his history with getting a maximum return on his journalistic efforts, going paywall is not eyebrow raising.
    My fav story about WSC's publication history, is that he came within an ace of getting sued for plagarism by Samuel Eliot Morrison, for lifting - without atribution - sizeable chunks of SEM's own history of the US Navy in WW2.

    After some back-and-forth, Morrison agreed to settle for statement crediting him in future editions of Churchill history of WW2. Rightly deciding that getting into a pissing match with the likes of the Greatest Living Englishman, was NOT a sensible course for his own reputation and future.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,191

    Dominic Cummings: "Voters didn't vote for bullshit Treasury spreadsheets"

    As ever, Dominic Cummings is right on the problems

    I assume that, as ever, he is 100% wrong on the solutions.
  • Leon said:

    More info from TwiX. Allegedly

    “Additional info on the operation:

    Sky News Arabic quotes an Israeli military source:

    - The Mossad placed explosives inside the batteries of the communication devices and detonated them by remotely increasing the battery temperature.

    - They used PETN, a stable explosive, instead of other types of explosives for this operation.

    - PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known in the world. It is sensitive to heat and friction, which may explain the explosion mechanism.

    - The explosive material was inserted before the devices reached Hezbollah.

    - Hezbollah’s supply chain was infiltrated.

    - Al Jazeera adds further details: 20 grams of explosives were placed in each device, and Hezbollah began using them 5 months ago.”

    I think they have one upped the Stuxnet operation.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    That’s genius if true. It also means Hezbollah and Iran cannot use any modern electronic devices unless they take them apart and check them first. And you can’t do that with iPhones etc

    This really fucks them
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,191
    boulay said:

    Could we get the chaps who made the pagers to do a load of I-phones, let the bike muggers see them and pinch them then blow them up. Do it all one weekend for maximum effect.

    There was an episode of the New Statesmen where Alan B’stard cheerfully gives his wallet to some muggers….
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    @TSE oh dear...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
    Slightly unusual for you to use "her" for a country. What's the brain chemistry there?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,766
    kinabalu said:

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Oh god. Delingpole. As so often I wonder about the 'mad' v 'bad' v 'sad' dynamic with these guys. Not that it really matters, I suppose. All you can assess is the output. The rest is a mystery, maybe even to them.
    I remember him in the 90s. He was quite an eloquent and interesting music journalist. Odd, the tangent his career subsequently took.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Leon said:

    More info from TwiX. Allegedly

    “Additional info on the operation:

    Sky News Arabic quotes an Israeli military source:

    - The Mossad placed explosives inside the batteries of the communication devices and detonated them by remotely increasing the battery temperature.

    - They used PETN, a stable explosive, instead of other types of explosives for this operation.

    - PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known in the world. It is sensitive to heat and friction, which may explain the explosion mechanism.

    - The explosive material was inserted before the devices reached Hezbollah.

    - Hezbollah’s supply chain was infiltrated.

    - Al Jazeera adds further details: 20 grams of explosives were placed in each device, and Hezbollah began using them 5 months ago.”

    I think they have one upped the Stuxnet operation.
    Yep. Because it induces maximum paranoia AND total tech paralysis
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,766
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
    Slightly unusual for you to use "her" for a country. What's the brain chemistry there?
    This linguistic form is a little archaic/poetic now, but used to be rather more common. And Leon is not averse to a bit of florid prose.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    darkage said:

    Cookie said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    That's it exactly. "But we're the good guys."
    It is like the approach to social unrest and disorder. It is ok - if it is in pursuit of 'progress'.
    But the 'cause' is relevant surely?

    Eg I'd be less condemnatory (word?) of rioting against female oppression in Iran than against a ban on outdoor smoking.

    (silly example but just to illustrate)
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    kinabalu said:

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Oh god. Delingpole. As so often I wonder about the 'mad' v 'bad' v 'sad' dynamic with these guys. Not that it really matters, I suppose. All you can assess is the output. The rest is a mystery, maybe even to them.
    I was just amazed at how much more mad he is capable of being when outwith the control of an editor.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
    Slightly unusual for you to use "her" for a country. What's the brain chemistry there?
    This linguistic form is a little archaic/poetic now, but used to be rather more common. And Leon is not averse to a bit of florid prose.
    Well I hope Iran doesn't go off the deep end in response. She can be unpredictable.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,022
    .
    Leon said:

    More info from TwiX. Allegedly

    “Additional info on the operation:

    Sky News Arabic quotes an Israeli military source:

    - The Mossad placed explosives inside the batteries of the communication devices and detonated them by remotely increasing the battery temperature.

    - They used PETN, a stable explosive, instead of other types of explosives for this operation.

    - PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known in the world. It is sensitive to heat and friction, which may explain the explosion mechanism.

    - The explosive material was inserted before the devices reached Hezbollah.

    - Hezbollah’s supply chain was infiltrated.

    - Al Jazeera adds further details: 20 grams of explosives were placed in each device, and Hezbollah began using them 5 months ago.”

    20g ?
    That seems an awful lot in a pager. You'd really struggle to hide 20g of explosive in an iPhone; probably couldn’t. That would be over 10% of the phone, or 40% of the battery.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Oh god. Delingpole. As so often I wonder about the 'mad' v 'bad' v 'sad' dynamic with these guys. Not that it really matters, I suppose. All you can assess is the output. The rest is a mystery, maybe even to them.
    I remember him in the 90s. He was quite an eloquent and interesting music journalist. Odd, the tangent his career subsequently took.
    Was he? Didn't know that.

    The dreaded two words "Tony Parsons" have come to mind.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
    Slightly unusual for you to use "her" for a country. What's the brain chemistry there?
    This linguistic form is a little archaic/poetic now, but used to be rather more common. And Leon is not averse to a bit of florid prose.
    Well I hope Iran doesn't go off the deep end in response. She can be unpredictable.
    Especially at certain اوقات الشهر
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,636
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
    Slightly unusual for you to use "her" for a country. What's the brain chemistry there?
    This linguistic form is a little archaic/poetic now, but used to be rather more common. And Leon is not averse to a bit of florid prose.
    Well I hope Iran doesn't go off the deep end in response. She can be unpredictable.
    The technological brilliance and imagination required for this attack makes it quite tricky to respond to. A few hundred rockets, some shitty drones in response? Pathetic.

    A few ultra lefty accounts I follow on twitter have betrayed a grudging respect for this one. Pulverising Gaza is mediaeval - this is space age, and it's difficult not to be excited (if not happy) about it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,191
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Oh god. Delingpole. As so often I wonder about the 'mad' v 'bad' v 'sad' dynamic with these guys. Not that it really matters, I suppose. All you can assess is the output. The rest is a mystery, maybe even to them.
    I remember him in the 90s. He was quite an eloquent and interesting music journalist. Odd, the tangent his career subsequently took.
    Was he? Didn't know that.

    The dreaded two words "Tony Parsons" have come to mind.
    Delingpole is another example of a public figure going down the self radicalising spiral/plug hole.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399

    Just catching up on this pager story. Absolutely bonkers. It’s like something out of a Bond film.

    Speaking of which, will there ever be another one?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
    Slightly unusual for you to use "her" for a country. What's the brain chemistry there?
    This linguistic form is a little archaic/poetic now, but used to be rather more common. And Leon is not averse to a bit of florid prose.
    Well I hope Iran doesn't go off the deep end in response. She can be unpredictable.
    Especially at certain اوقات الشهر
    How on earth have you typed that last bit.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    OT
    Villa top of the European champions league. Can we stop now?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,636
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    More info from TwiX. Allegedly

    “Additional info on the operation:

    Sky News Arabic quotes an Israeli military source:

    - The Mossad placed explosives inside the batteries of the communication devices and detonated them by remotely increasing the battery temperature.

    - They used PETN, a stable explosive, instead of other types of explosives for this operation.

    - PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known in the world. It is sensitive to heat and friction, which may explain the explosion mechanism.

    - The explosive material was inserted before the devices reached Hezbollah.

    - Hezbollah’s supply chain was infiltrated.

    - Al Jazeera adds further details: 20 grams of explosives were placed in each device, and Hezbollah began using them 5 months ago.”

    20g ?
    That seems an awful lot in a pager. You'd really struggle to hide 20g of explosive in an iPhone; probably couldn’t. That would be over 10% of the phone, or 40% of the battery.
    I'd guess that Hezbollah's IT department has been getting an awful lot of grief about terrible battery performance over the last 5 months.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110
    Leon said:

    That’s genius if true. It also means Hezbollah and Iran cannot use any modern electronic devices unless they take them apart and check them first. And you can’t do that with iPhones etc

    This really fucks them

    You can, however, do it with phones from Nothing.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    More info from TwiX. Allegedly

    “Additional info on the operation:

    Sky News Arabic quotes an Israeli military source:

    - The Mossad placed explosives inside the batteries of the communication devices and detonated them by remotely increasing the battery temperature.

    - They used PETN, a stable explosive, instead of other types of explosives for this operation.

    - PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known in the world. It is sensitive to heat and friction, which may explain the explosion mechanism.

    - The explosive material was inserted before the devices reached Hezbollah.

    - Hezbollah’s supply chain was infiltrated.

    - Al Jazeera adds further details: 20 grams of explosives were placed in each device, and Hezbollah began using them 5 months ago.”

    20g ?
    That seems an awful lot in a pager. You'd really struggle to hide 20g of explosive in an iPhone; probably couldn’t. That would be over 10% of the phone, or 40% of the battery.
    They call it heavy PETN for a reason

    But I doubt I would notice that a replacement pixel 8 was 10% heavier than the one I am typing on. Certainly no chance, if it was a gadget of which I had no previous experience, of noticing it was 10% heavier than it ought to be
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110
    mercator said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    More info from TwiX. Allegedly

    “Additional info on the operation:

    Sky News Arabic quotes an Israeli military source:

    - The Mossad placed explosives inside the batteries of the communication devices and detonated them by remotely increasing the battery temperature.

    - They used PETN, a stable explosive, instead of other types of explosives for this operation.

    - PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known in the world. It is sensitive to heat and friction, which may explain the explosion mechanism.

    - The explosive material was inserted before the devices reached Hezbollah.

    - Hezbollah’s supply chain was infiltrated.

    - Al Jazeera adds further details: 20 grams of explosives were placed in each device, and Hezbollah began using them 5 months ago.”

    20g ?
    That seems an awful lot in a pager. You'd really struggle to hide 20g of explosive in an iPhone; probably couldn’t. That would be over 10% of the phone, or 40% of the battery.
    They call it heavy PETN for a reason

    But I doubt I would notice that a replacement pixel 8 was 10% heavier than the one I am typing on. Certainly no chance, if it was a gadget of which I had no previous experience, of noticing it was 10% heavier than it ought to be
    And the amount of tech required in a pager is going to be tiny: getting 20 grammes of explosive in there wouldn't be that hard.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    Dominic Cummings: "Voters didn't vote for bullshit Treasury spreadsheets"

    We didn't vote for him either, but according to his own account* that didn't stop him trying to seize power.

    *Which is almost certainly BS born of his hurt feelings at having been sacked for his nastiness and incompetence, but we can't verify it either way.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
    Slightly unusual for you to use "her" for a country. What's the brain chemistry there?
    This linguistic form is a little archaic/poetic now, but used to be rather more common. And Leon is not averse to a bit of florid prose.
    Well I hope Iran doesn't go off the deep end in response. She can be unpredictable.
    Leon is entirely predictable.

    Oh, sorry, you meant Iran?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
    Slightly unusual for you to use "her" for a country. What's the brain chemistry there?
    This linguistic form is a little archaic/poetic now, but used to be rather more common. And Leon is not averse to a bit of florid prose.
    Well I hope Iran doesn't go off the deep end in response. She can be unpredictable.
    The technological brilliance and imagination required for this attack makes it quite tricky to respond to. A few hundred rockets, some shitty drones in response? Pathetic.

    A few ultra lefty accounts I follow on twitter have betrayed a grudging respect for this one. Pulverising Gaza is mediaeval - this is space age, and it's difficult not to be excited (if not happy) about it.
    Ok. I'm managing not to be excited but I accept I have a below average appreciation or interest in the technicals of violence.

    9/11 is the gold standard, though, I suppose?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    More info from TwiX. Allegedly

    “Additional info on the operation:

    Sky News Arabic quotes an Israeli military source:

    - The Mossad placed explosives inside the batteries of the communication devices and detonated them by remotely increasing the battery temperature.

    - They used PETN, a stable explosive, instead of other types of explosives for this operation.

    - PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known in the world. It is sensitive to heat and friction, which may explain the explosion mechanism.

    - The explosive material was inserted before the devices reached Hezbollah.

    - Hezbollah’s supply chain was infiltrated.

    - Al Jazeera adds further details: 20 grams of explosives were placed in each device, and Hezbollah began using them 5 months ago.”

    I think they have one upped the Stuxnet operation.
    Yep. Because it induces maximum paranoia AND total tech paralysis
    What happens when it’s turned on us ?
    China, of course, produces an awful lot of our consumer electronics.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,568

    One of the lesser reported parts of the Huw Edwards paedo scandal is the guy selling the child pron to multiple people didn't get prison time either. I find that quite amazing.

    He had a previous relevant conviction too. Maybe HMRC could get him, Al Capone style.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    kinabalu said:

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
    Slightly unusual for you to use "her" for a country. What's the brain chemistry there?
    This linguistic form is a little archaic/poetic now, but used to be rather more common. And Leon is not averse to a bit of florid prose.
    Well I hope Iran doesn't go off the deep end in response. She can be unpredictable.
    Especially at certain اوقات الشهر
    How on earth have you typed that last bit.
    Copy and paste from Google translate

    But I in theory know some classical Arabic and I am due to be travelling in Algeria and then Pakistan between now and Christmas and I don't mind not knowing the lingo, but I do object to being illiterate to the extent of not being able to read Algiers or Islamabad on a roadsign. So I am brushing up on the alphabet and I could, with difficulty, manage it with an Arabic keyboard.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Oh god. Delingpole. As so often I wonder about the 'mad' v 'bad' v 'sad' dynamic with these guys. Not that it really matters, I suppose. All you can assess is the output. The rest is a mystery, maybe even to them.
    I remember him in the 90s. He was quite an eloquent and interesting music journalist. Odd, the tangent his career subsequently took.
    Was he? Didn't know that.

    The dreaded two words "Tony Parsons" have come to mind.
    Delingpole is another example of a public figure going down the self radicalising spiral/plug hole.
    Yes. Seems amiable and far from thick yet the output is stupid and nasty. So whatever is causing that has questions to answer.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,055

    Just catching up on this pager story. Absolutely bonkers. It’s like something out of a Bond film.

    Speaking of which, will there ever be another one?
    The YouTuber Calvin Dyson discusses this in one of his latest videos. IIRC the answer is unsure. The current generation in the Broccolis are aging and the next generation aren't chomping at the bit, so that, combined with lack of urgency, gives rise to uncertainty.

    https://youtu.be/lwj1eiKQPg4?si=7Pbedn3yvLaIc4qg
  • OT
    Villa top of the European champions league. Can we stop now?

    This new League concept seems very bizarre, not playing teams home and away.

    Not decided yet what I think of it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    More info from TwiX. Allegedly

    “Additional info on the operation:

    Sky News Arabic quotes an Israeli military source:

    - The Mossad placed explosives inside the batteries of the communication devices and detonated them by remotely increasing the battery temperature.

    - They used PETN, a stable explosive, instead of other types of explosives for this operation.

    - PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known in the world. It is sensitive to heat and friction, which may explain the explosion mechanism.

    - The explosive material was inserted before the devices reached Hezbollah.

    - Hezbollah’s supply chain was infiltrated.

    - Al Jazeera adds further details: 20 grams of explosives were placed in each device, and Hezbollah began using them 5 months ago.”

    20g ?
    That seems an awful lot in a pager. You'd really struggle to hide 20g of explosive in an iPhone; probably couldn’t. That would be over 10% of the phone, or 40% of the battery.
    Yes, I’m taking these “revelations” with a *pinch* of gelignite

    That said it does look likely that the Israelis put explosives in each pager. Deviously clever
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,568
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    More info from TwiX. Allegedly

    “Additional info on the operation:

    Sky News Arabic quotes an Israeli military source:

    - The Mossad placed explosives inside the batteries of the communication devices and detonated them by remotely increasing the battery temperature.

    - They used PETN, a stable explosive, instead of other types of explosives for this operation.

    - PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known in the world. It is sensitive to heat and friction, which may explain the explosion mechanism.

    - The explosive material was inserted before the devices reached Hezbollah.

    - Hezbollah’s supply chain was infiltrated.

    - Al Jazeera adds further details: 20 grams of explosives were placed in each device, and Hezbollah began using them 5 months ago.”

    I think they have one upped the Stuxnet operation.
    Yep. Because it induces maximum paranoia AND total tech paralysis
    The Grim Beeper, Twitter informs me is the term.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,636
    kinabalu said:

    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
    Slightly unusual for you to use "her" for a country. What's the brain chemistry there?
    This linguistic form is a little archaic/poetic now, but used to be rather more common. And Leon is not averse to a bit of florid prose.
    Well I hope Iran doesn't go off the deep end in response. She can be unpredictable.
    The technological brilliance and imagination required for this attack makes it quite tricky to respond to. A few hundred rockets, some shitty drones in response? Pathetic.

    A few ultra lefty accounts I follow on twitter have betrayed a grudging respect for this one. Pulverising Gaza is mediaeval - this is space age, and it's difficult not to be excited (if not happy) about it.
    Ok. I'm managing not to be excited but I accept I have a below average appreciation or interest in the technicals of violence.

    9/11 is the gold standard, though, I suppose?
    Yes, the audacity and complexity of that attack was why it was so successful. The same humiliation suffered by the Americans as Hezbollah just now.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,811
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    More info from TwiX. Allegedly

    “Additional info on the operation:

    Sky News Arabic quotes an Israeli military source:

    - The Mossad placed explosives inside the batteries of the communication devices and detonated them by remotely increasing the battery temperature.

    - They used PETN, a stable explosive, instead of other types of explosives for this operation.

    - PETN is one of the most powerful explosives known in the world. It is sensitive to heat and friction, which may explain the explosion mechanism.

    - The explosive material was inserted before the devices reached Hezbollah.

    - Hezbollah’s supply chain was infiltrated.

    - Al Jazeera adds further details: 20 grams of explosives were placed in each device, and Hezbollah began using them 5 months ago.”

    I think they have one upped the Stuxnet operation.
    Yep. Because it induces maximum paranoia AND total tech paralysis
    What happens when it’s turned on us ?
    China, of course, produces an awful lot of our consumer electronics.
    I think if I’m running a national intelligence agency I’m really thinking about getting some briefings to my government about securing supply chains for electricals now.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    DougSeal said:

    In more Trafalgar fun, the bow-tied one has Trump ahead in Georgia by less than 2 points. I think last time out, or maybe 2016, he overstated Trump across the board by 4

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/GA-24-General-0916_Report.pdf

    Pick a number between 1 and 100, any number. Got it? That's your Dem number, subtract from 100 and you have your GOP number. Congratulations, you're a US pollster.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,191
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
    Sounds like a bit of 'deniable' Holocaust denial there. These 'racists with table manners' usually build in some deniability.
    Just asking questions.

    BTW I came across dear old James Delingpole on substack the other day. Batshit doesn't begin to cover it. The Southport murders never happened (crisis actors and a subservient press), Edward Heath raped and murdered 5 year old boys on his yacht and if you think that sounds bad you should hear what Churchill got up to. Sadly Churchill was paying subscribers only. I thought I would spend the money elsewhere.
    Oh god. Delingpole. As so often I wonder about the 'mad' v 'bad' v 'sad' dynamic with these guys. Not that it really matters, I suppose. All you can assess is the output. The rest is a mystery, maybe even to them.
    I remember him in the 90s. He was quite an eloquent and interesting music journalist. Odd, the tangent his career subsequently took.
    Was he? Didn't know that.

    The dreaded two words "Tony Parsons" have come to mind.
    Delingpole is another example of a public figure going down the self radicalising spiral/plug hole.
    Yes. Seems amiable and far from thick yet the output is stupid and nasty. So whatever is causing that has questions to answer.
    Social media, these days.

    It was a noted phenomenon in Northern Ireland, before SM. Someone would start drinking in a pub. End up drinking with some er… enthusiastic people. Who would, in turn introduce them to another pub, down the road. And so on…. The end would be drinking with the actual Men of Violence.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    mercator said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Yes it is extremely clever and will no doubt have taken out a number of Hezbollah operatives. But it also involves having a large number of bombs going off in a totally random way resulting in thousands of civilian casualties.

    For all the cleverness the criminal indifference to collateral damage and casualties seems all too analogous to Gaza.

    Israel is a country that has lost its soul.
    Sorry David but I completely disagree. Pagers are devices people carry on them by and large, if Hezbollah operatives pagers are blowing up then that is incredibly precisely targeted explosions that are affecting the person carrying the device, ie the operative.

    Infinitely smarter and better than lobbing missiles at the buildings with operatives in, which will inevitably carry more collateral damage.
    Quite so

    If only Israel had done something like this in gaza against Hamas

    Anyway. It is absurd to condemn Israel for indiscriminate bombing in Gaza but then also condemn her for ultra-discriminate bombing of Hezbollah fighters, individual by individual

    What is Israel meant to do? Ask the UN to come in and peacefully arrest Hezbollah members and then hold them in maybe the Savoy Hotel with full bed and board?

    1200 Israelis were killed October 7-8, many more kidnapped and tortured. Hezbollah have been loudly declaring their intent to do similar ASAP
    Slightly unusual for you to use "her" for a country. What's the brain chemistry there?
    This linguistic form is a little archaic/poetic now, but used to be rather more common. And Leon is not averse to a bit of florid prose.
    Well I hope Iran doesn't go off the deep end in response. She can be unpredictable.
    Especially at certain اوقات الشهر
    How on earth have you typed that last bit.
    Copy and paste from Google translate

    But I in theory know some classical Arabic and I am due to be travelling in Algeria and then Pakistan between now and Christmas and I don't mind not knowing the lingo, but I do object to being illiterate to the extent of not being able to read Algiers or Islamabad on a roadsign. So I am brushing up on the alphabet and I could, with difficulty, manage it with an Arabic keyboard.
    In which it is revealed that @kinabalu doesn’t know about “Google Translate”
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    I’m in the whistler gondola
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,055
    How did the Israelis know which pagers were owned by Hezbollah? Did they detonate specific ones or just all in a given area? If the latter, were civilian owners of pagers affected?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    viewcode said:

    How did the Israelis know which pagers were owned by Hezbollah? Did they detonate specific ones or just all in a given area? If the latter, were civilian owners of pagers affected?

    Theory is Hezbollah bought a whole batch for their fighters precisely because it was a concern that mobiles were compromised. And all of them have exploded. Some have died/been injured in Syria as well
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited September 17
    viewcode said:

    How did the Israelis know which pagers were owned by Hezbollah? Did they detonate specific ones or just all in a given area? If the latter, were civilian owners of pagers affected?

    They are special supposed secure pagers only given to Hezbollah operatives.
  • viewcode said:

    How did the Israelis know which pagers were owned by Hezbollah? Did they detonate specific ones or just all in a given area? If the latter, were civilian owners of pagers affected?

    They seem to have infiltrated the supply chain of Hezbollah, if the suppositions are correct. Which is pretty genius, supply Hezbollah 'enhanced' pagers and let Hezbollah distribute them for you.

    How many non-terrorists still use pagers in this day and age? Do civilian owners of pagers still even exist?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,022
    It signals an escalation of the conflict.

    I think Netanyahu has decided on all out war with Hezbollah. There’s speculation he’s about to sack the defence minister who opposes that.

  • Nigelb said:

    It signals an escalation of the conflict.

    I think Netanyahu has decided on all out war with Hezbollah. There’s speculation he’s about to sack the defence minister who opposes that.

    Its the logical move to do.

    If they've just taken out or incapacitated a significant chunk of Hezbollah's operatives then it seems perfect timing to proceed with an escalation. Press while the iron is hot, don't let them recover before doing so.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,191
    viewcode said:

    How did the Israelis know which pagers were owned by Hezbollah? Did they detonate specific ones or just all in a given area? If the latter, were civilian owners of pagers affected?

    At this point not enough information to be sure.

    But sources inside Lebanon have been describing them as “Hezbollah pagers”. Which strongly suggests some kind of targeting.

    There is also some evidence that all the pagers are the same specific brand & model.

    From the later point, it is not much of a reach to wonder if Hezbollah did a bulk buy and handed them out. Which in turn suggests that the bulk buy was spotted and subverted.
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