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Jenrick continues his surge in the betting markets – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited September 29 in General
imageJenrick continues his surge in the betting markets – politicalbetting.com

After the second round result there was a bit of movement towards Badenoch but that seems to have dissipated with Robert Jenrick going past the 50% probability mark in the past week.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    I think this just shows how dire the Tory party is - someone who cares more about Copyright infringement than children...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    Second as the Tories will be (at best) come the next election.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    eek said:

    I think this just shows how dire the Tory party is - someone who cares more about Copyright infringement than children...

    Where have all the good men* gone
    And where are all the gods?
    Where's the streetwise Hercules
    To fight the rising odds?

    I mean, have they all joined the Lib Dems, or what? :wink:

    *and, indeed, women
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,122
    Selebian said:

    eek said:

    I think this just shows how dire the Tory party is - someone who cares more about Copyright infringement than children...

    Where have all the good men* gone
    And where are all the gods?
    Where's the streetwise Hercules
    To fight the rising odds?

    I mean, have they all joined the Lib Dems, or what? :wink:

    *and, indeed, women
    Well there is certainly a steady flow...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    eek said:

    I think this just shows how dire the Tory party is - someone who cares more about Copyright infringement than children...

    He doesn't care about copyright infringement.

    He cares about performative cruelty
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Tonight's reading for Ed Miliband.

    A good paper on SMRs.
    https://www.tenentrepreneurs.org/small-wonders-1
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    Looks like Mossad has booby trapped the party of God's pagers.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd7xnelvpepo
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    Sensible.

    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.

    What do the Lib Dems offer anything to the country apart from being a protest vote to discontented Tories in the shires ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112
    Taz said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    Sensible.

    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.

    What do the Lib Dems offer anything to the country apart from being a protest vote to discontented Tories in the shires ?
    An alternative to Tory failure and incompetence, and Starmers clunky cheese-paring centralism.

    We have other choices. Labour and Tories are not the only game in town.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    I wonder if they have their own Stakeknife?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited September 17

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    On topic, lay the favourite? There’s plenty of events still to happen before the final election.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    Question then is whether one of the other three can turn things around during the Conference beauty parade.

    Are they giving the contenders full speaking slots, or going ahead with the silly plan to restrict them to ten minutes each?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984
    Taz said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    Sensible.

    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.

    What do the Lib Dems offer anything to the country apart from being a protest vote to discontented Tories in the shires ?
    Pretty mean spirited of you in all honesty. You could say thr same about all parties - rightly or wrongly, most parties look to those who support them and then seek to reach out to those who don't.

    I don't see much evidence of either Labour or the Conservatives moving beyond their core support.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,122
    Taz said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    Sensible.

    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.

    What do the Lib Dems offer anything to the country apart from being a protest vote to discontented Tories in the shires ?
    Compared to the Tories?

    Just for starters, how about efficient, uncorrupt administration in local government across the country. Moderate, constructive and responsible attitudes. A positive engagement with the EU. A belief in decency and basic standards including respect for our armed forces, teachers, doctors and the civil service. A massive number of informed, well thought policies crafted by practitioners and experts. A contempt for lies and bullshit...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited September 17
    Good morning from Whistler. Talking of Tory leaders, yesterday I spent an entire day driving from Kelowna to *weird hick mountain town with inbred people*, then to Kamloops, then Whistler. The main road was shut so it took FOREVER

    However, there was some tolerably pretty countryside on the way


  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984
    Cicero said:

    Taz said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    Sensible.

    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.

    What do the Lib Dems offer anything to the country apart from being a protest vote to discontented Tories in the shires ?
    Compared to the Tories?

    Just for starters, how about efficient, uncorrupt administration in local government across the country. Moderate, constructive and responsible attitudes. A positive engagement with the EU. A belief in decency and basic standards including respect for our armed forces, teachers, doctors and the civil service. A massive number of informed, well thought policies crafted by practitioners and experts. A contempt for lies and bullshit...
    You're only going to upset the pbTories with that kind of trenchant honesty...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Off topic - but can I just say I'm impressed with Lloyds. Discovered I didn't know where my credit card was on Sunday afternoon so I reported it lost.
    New card arrived in today's post.

    Good to hear. Buy a cheap wallet, add the card (and any other cards you use) to Apple Pay, then stow the wallet in a safe place in your house. You will never lose a credit card again.
    You might lose the phone though.
    Then you still have the card as backup, safe at home. And nobody can use your card but you when it's on Apple Pay.
    One place a physical card is NEEDED (No cash either ;) ) is Costco for fuel.

    https://www.costco.co.uk/fuel-q-and-a

    How do I pay for my fuel?
    The Fuel Station is entirely self-serve, with pay-at-the-pump technology. We accept Chip & PIN debit cards (UK Maestro, Visa Debit), and all forms of Chip & PIN major credit cards (Mastercard, American Express and Visa). Cash and mobile payment methods (e.g Apple Pay/Google Pay) are not currently accepted.
    Utterly antiquated. Won't last. They just need to pull their finger out.

    P.S. I found one fuel stop in rural France like this when on holiday. Couldn't believe how backward that place was.
    Have you driven in New Jersey?
    Trying to think if I have. Racking my brains, no. I have driven in CO, VA, NC, MD but no further north, from memory (and it was a long time ago in most cases).
  • I guess the interesting thing will be how the conference goes. The last two candidates are knocked out post conference. So it is going to be a real beauty parade (albeit an interesting definition of beauty).

    If we believe the last lot of polling of the Tory membership (and there are always problems with that) Kemi Badenoch was their pick. I have always thought it would be a brave, and slightly arrogant, parliamentary party that sends a top two without the members favourite. So if Team Kemi has a good conference the pressure to make sure she makes the ballot could be pretty significant. If she makes the ballot Jenrick has a proper fight on his hands.

    However, from what I can see she’s not exactly setting the world alight, and Jenrick is capitalising on that. He will surely hope that in the last two he faces Tugendhat or Cleverly - if that is the case he will walk it.

    That all being said I think Badenoch is probably the value bet. As I think she’s a touch underpriced. But she may well be out of the running completely if her conference is poor.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    This is presumably the Israelis. If so it is superb - not just the cleverness of blowing up pagers but the psyops. No one in Hezbollah or Hamas or Iran will now feel able to trust their own mobile phone. What if the devious Jews blow it up as they text Abdullah?

    And without mobiles they are crocked

    Bravo
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    JEN[Spam trapper mobilised]
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620
    stodge said:

    Cicero said:

    Taz said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    Sensible.

    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.

    What do the Lib Dems offer anything to the country apart from being a protest vote to discontented Tories in the shires ?
    Compared to the Tories?

    Just for starters, how about efficient, uncorrupt administration in local government across the country. Moderate, constructive and responsible attitudes. A positive engagement with the EU. A belief in decency and basic standards including respect for our armed forces, teachers, doctors and the civil service. A massive number of informed, well thought policies crafted by practitioners and experts. A contempt for lies and bullshit...
    You're only going to upset the pbTories with that kind of trenchant honesty...
    "efficient administration in local government"? You've stuck your neck out there...

    I give you Royal Mail privatization, "another Lib Dem manifesto promise delivered". As the 6 day national delivery service looks set to become extinct. RM has the potential to be an bigger disaster than water.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    edited September 17
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
    Would Lady Vic be allowed to charge the dress rental to party expenses? If so, what's the bloody difference with Lord Alli (a long-term donor) just buying them for her?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620
    Leon said:

    Good morning from Whistler. Talking of Tory leaders, yesterday I spent an entire day driving from Kelowna to *weird hick mountain town with inbred people*, then to Kamloops, then Whistler. The main road was shut so it took FOREVER

    However, there was some tolerably pretty countryside on the way


    You're at least 3-4 months too early, unless you're going mountain biking.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Off topic - but can I just say I'm impressed with Lloyds. Discovered I didn't know where my credit card was on Sunday afternoon so I reported it lost.
    New card arrived in today's post.

    Good to hear. Buy a cheap wallet, add the card (and any other cards you use) to Apple Pay, then stow the wallet in a safe place in your house. You will never lose a credit card again.
    You might lose the phone though.
    Then you still have the card as backup, safe at home. And nobody can use your card but you when it's on Apple Pay.
    One place a physical card is NEEDED (No cash either ;) ) is Costco for fuel.

    https://www.costco.co.uk/fuel-q-and-a

    How do I pay for my fuel?
    The Fuel Station is entirely self-serve, with pay-at-the-pump technology. We accept Chip & PIN debit cards (UK Maestro, Visa Debit), and all forms of Chip & PIN major credit cards (Mastercard, American Express and Visa). Cash and mobile payment methods (e.g Apple Pay/Google Pay) are not currently accepted.
    Utterly antiquated. Won't last. They just need to pull their finger out.

    P.S. I found one fuel stop in rural France like this when on holiday. Couldn't believe how backward that place was.
    Have you driven in New Jersey?
    Trying to think if I have. Racking my brains, no. I have driven in CO, VA, NC, MD but no further north, from memory (and it was a long time ago in most cases).
    You still can't self-serve at a gas station in New Jersey.

    Puts all your accusations of backwardness in relation to payment systems into perspective, and also shows what can happen if the law is used to enforce a shibboleth.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited September 17
    Dopermean said:

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Whistler. Talking of Tory leaders, yesterday I spent an entire day driving from Kelowna to *weird hick mountain town with inbred people*, then to Kamloops, then Whistler. The main road was shut so it took FOREVER

    However, there was some tolerably pretty countryside on the way


    You're at least 3-4 months too early, unless you're going mountain biking.
    Sadly I don’t get to choose the precise timing of my gazette assignments. On the upside I am getting magnificent weather - 23C and clear skies. Perfection. And the first hints of gold and russet autumn in the trees. And I don’t like skiing

    I could post a dozen photos all as lovely as those (ofc I won’t) yet all different

    Also last night they took me into THE COLDEST VODKA ROOM IN THE WORLD

    https://bearfootbistro.com/dining-menu/vodka-menu/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited September 17

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
    Would Lady Vic be allowed to charge the dress rental to party expenses? If so, what's the bloody difference with Lord Alli (a long-term donor) just buying them for her?
    You rent a £1,000 dress for £100, in the same way many men rent a penguin suit for a ball*

    I’d say that was fair expenses, whenever work have asked me to dress silly in the past they’ve paid for the suit hire (I once worked at Royal Ascot).

    As commented earlier, that’s somewhat different from giving Lady S a five-figure cheque and sending her to Kensington High St.

    * Mr and Mrs Johnson were totally skint when living in Downing St, thanks to his divorce and much reduced income, and her working for a charity on a low wage.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited September 17
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
    Would Lady Vic be allowed to charge the dress rental to party expenses? If so, what's the bloody difference with Lord Alli (a long-term donor) just buying them for her?
    You rent a £1,000 dress for £100, in the same way many men rent a penguin suit for a ball*

    As commented earlier, that’s somewhat different from giving Lady S a five-figure cheque and sending her to Kensington High St.

    * Mr and Mrs Johnson were totally skint when living in Downing St, thanks to his divorce and much reduced income, and her working for a charity on a low wage.
    I’m sorry, but if you cannot afford bespoke tailoring for these events then you have no business attending these events.

    The thought of wearing clothes that other people have worn makes me ick.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
    Would Lady Vic be allowed to charge the dress rental to party expenses? If so, what's the bloody difference with Lord Alli (a long-term donor) just buying them for her?
    Why should she? I know the Tory Press will go ape if she doesn't wear a different dress to each function, but wouldn't it be an example of sensible economy if she did?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited September 17
    kamski said:

    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.

    Not sure that Trump has ever had the power to pass laws in Georgia.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
    Would Lady Vic be allowed to charge the dress rental to party expenses? If so, what's the bloody difference with Lord Alli (a long-term donor) just buying them for her?
    You rent a £1,000 dress for £100, in the same way many men rent a penguin suit for a ball*

    As commented earlier, that’s somewhat different from giving Lady S a five-figure cheque and sending her to Kensington High St.

    * Mr and Mrs Johnson were totally skint when living in Downing St, thanks to his divorce and much reduced income, and her working for a charity on a low wage.
    I’m sorry, but if you cannot afford bespoke tailoring for these events then you have no business attending these events.

    The thought of wearing clothes that other people have worn makes me ick.
    Just think about who's slept on the sheets in your hotel room. You'll have to stay home.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Genuinely calling the new Government to account is absolutely to be saluted. Criticism of the WFA debacle makes perfect sense. Mrs Starmer's wardrobe whilst (forgive the pun) not a good look, is a Currygate sized mountain out of a mole hill. But your constant nonsense posting between pro-Trump polling may cheer the disappointed remaining Tory faithful but what's the point? No one on here supports this government anyway, so who's minds are you changing?

    I note Leon's back in town so you can tag-team nonsense with him. Ah well, I've been posting like a man possessed for the last 24 hours so a rest is as good as a change.
  • carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
    Would Lady Vic be allowed to charge the dress rental to party expenses? If so, what's the bloody difference with Lord Alli (a long-term donor) just buying them for her?
    You rent a £1,000 dress for £100, in the same way many men rent a penguin suit for a ball*

    As commented earlier, that’s somewhat different from giving Lady S a five-figure cheque and sending her to Kensington High St.

    * Mr and Mrs Johnson were totally skint when living in Downing St, thanks to his divorce and much reduced income, and her working for a charity on a low wage.
    I’m sorry, but if you cannot afford bespoke tailoring for these events then you have no business attending these events.

    The thought of wearing clothes that other people have worn makes me ick.
    Just think about who's slept on the sheets in your hotel room. You'll have to stay home.
    They wash them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    Sensible.

    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.

    What do the Lib Dems offer anything to the country apart from being a protest vote to discontented Tories in the shires ?
    An alternative to Tory failure and incompetence, and Starmers clunky cheese-paring centralism.

    We have other choices. Labour and Tories are not the only game in town.
    How do we know they offer that ?

    We assumed Starmer and Labour offered a break to the Tories and he, and his govt, are just continuity Sunak.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    This is presumably the Israelis. If so it is superb - not just the cleverness of blowing up pagers but the psyops. No one in Hezbollah or Hamas or Iran will now feel able to trust their own mobile phone. What if the devious Jews blow it up as they text Abdullah?

    And without mobiles they are crocked

    Bravo
    Looks like they'll be paying with cash for the foreseeable future.
    Excellently done

    👏
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    There was an incident, where Israeli intelligence replaced someone’s mobile with their own, modified version.

    Then phoned them. To say goodbye.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,161
    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
    Would Lady Vic be allowed to charge the dress rental to party expenses? If so, what's the bloody difference with Lord Alli (a long-term donor) just buying them for her?
    You rent a £1,000 dress for £100, in the same way many men rent a penguin suit for a ball*

    As commented earlier, that’s somewhat different from giving Lady S a five-figure cheque and sending her to Kensington High St.

    * Mr and Mrs Johnson were totally skint when living in Downing St, thanks to his divorce and much reduced income, and her working for a charity on a low wage.
    I’m sorry, but if you cannot afford bespoke tailoring for these events then you have no business attending these events.

    The thought of wearing clothes that other people have worn makes me ick.
    Just think about who's slept on the sheets in your hotel room. You'll have to stay home.
    It's not the sleeping you have to worry about.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited September 17
    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405

    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
    Would Lady Vic be allowed to charge the dress rental to party expenses? If so, what's the bloody difference with Lord Alli (a long-term donor) just buying them for her?
    You rent a £1,000 dress for £100, in the same way many men rent a penguin suit for a ball*

    As commented earlier, that’s somewhat different from giving Lady S a five-figure cheque and sending her to Kensington High St.

    * Mr and Mrs Johnson were totally skint when living in Downing St, thanks to his divorce and much reduced income, and her working for a charity on a low wage.
    I’m sorry, but if you cannot afford bespoke tailoring for these events then you have no business attending these events.

    The thought of wearing clothes that other people have worn makes me ick.
    Just think about who's slept on the sheets in your hotel room. You'll have to stay home.
    They wash them.
    The clothes are washed too !
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    Cicero said:

    Taz said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    Sensible.

    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.

    What do the Lib Dems offer anything to the country apart from being a protest vote to discontented Tories in the shires ?
    Compared to the Tories?

    Just for starters, how about efficient, uncorrupt administration in local government across the country. Moderate, constructive and responsible attitudes. A positive engagement with the EU. A belief in decency and basic standards including respect for our armed forces, teachers, doctors and the civil service. A massive number of informed, well thought policies crafted by practitioners and experts. A contempt for lies and bullshit...
    No, not against the Tories, but in general.

    Those are all just meaningless soundbites you would expect from Lib Dem fanboys.

    There are great parts of the country that are not Tory. What do they offer us ? What do they offer the red wall apart from meaningless platitudes like the ones you have just come up with.

  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.

    Not sure that Trump has ever had the power to pass laws in Georgia.
    Do you really need it spelling out?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
    Would Lady Vic be allowed to charge the dress rental to party expenses? If so, what's the bloody difference with Lord Alli (a long-term donor) just buying them for her?
    You rent a £1,000 dress for £100, in the same way many men rent a penguin suit for a ball*

    As commented earlier, that’s somewhat different from giving Lady S a five-figure cheque and sending her to Kensington High St.

    * Mr and Mrs Johnson were totally skint when living in Downing St, thanks to his divorce and much reduced income, and her working for a charity on a low wage.
    I’m sorry, but if you cannot afford bespoke tailoring for these events then you have no business attending these events.

    The thought of wearing clothes that other people have worn makes me ick.
    Just think about who's slept on the sheets in your hotel room. You'll have to stay home.
    They wash them.
    So you can see why Eamonn Holmes's mum felt the need to wash the winning shirt he was given by Cantona.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Taz said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.
    "The Waitrose Party" seems to me to be one that will stick, when in common use.

  • Pulpstar said:

    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
    Would Lady Vic be allowed to charge the dress rental to party expenses? If so, what's the bloody difference with Lord Alli (a long-term donor) just buying them for her?
    You rent a £1,000 dress for £100, in the same way many men rent a penguin suit for a ball*

    As commented earlier, that’s somewhat different from giving Lady S a five-figure cheque and sending her to Kensington High St.

    * Mr and Mrs Johnson were totally skint when living in Downing St, thanks to his divorce and much reduced income, and her working for a charity on a low wage.
    I’m sorry, but if you cannot afford bespoke tailoring for these events then you have no business attending these events.

    The thought of wearing clothes that other people have worn makes me ick.
    Just think about who's slept on the sheets in your hotel room. You'll have to stay home.
    They wash them.
    The clothes are washed too !
    I have my doubts.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    Sensible.

    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.

    What do the Lib Dems offer anything to the country apart from being a protest vote to discontented Tories in the shires ?
    Pretty mean spirited of you in all honesty. You could say thr same about all parties - rightly or wrongly, most parties look to those who support them and then seek to reach out to those who don't.

    I don't see much evidence of either Labour or the Conservatives moving beyond their core support.
    It is not mean spirited. It is a genuine question. What do they offer the country apart from being a protest vote to Tories in the shires ? What do they offer the Red Wall communities for example. There was precious little scrutiny of them during the election campaign and they were quick enough to jump into bed with the Tories at the first opportunity.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited September 17

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    There was an incident, where Israeli intelligence replaced someone’s mobile with their own, modified version.

    Then phoned them. To say goodbye.
    Just seen the images of injured Hezbollah fighters

    😶

    It’s terrifying and it’s genius. They’ll have to go back to carrier pigeons. lol
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,554
    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720
    edited September 17
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    There was an incident, where Israeli intelligence replaced someone’s mobile with their own, modified version.

    Then phoned them. To say goodbye.
    Just seen the images of injured Hezbollah fighters

    😶

    It’s terrifying and it’s genius. They’ll have to go back to carrier pigeons. lol
    It is certainly an upgrade on exploding cigars.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
  • Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    This is presumably the Israelis. If so it is superb - not just the cleverness of blowing up pagers but the psyops. No one in Hezbollah or Hamas or Iran will now feel able to trust their own mobile phone. What if the devious Jews blow it up as they text Abdullah?

    And without mobiles they are crocked

    Bravo
    Looks like they'll be paying with cash for the foreseeable future.
    Does this mean that from now on everyone paying with cash is likely to be a suspected member of Hezbollah, Hamas, etc?

    This could ruin the black economy.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    Yes, my guess would be a Stuxnet-type approach, software that kills the hardware.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    There was an incident, where Israeli intelligence replaced someone’s mobile with their own, modified version.

    Then phoned them. To say goodbye.
    Just seen the images of injured Hezbollah fighters

    😶

    It’s terrifying and it’s genius. They’ll have to go back to carrier pigeons. lol
    It is certainly an upgrade on exploding cigars.
    Thing is, when they do resort to carrier pigeons, it will turn out that Mossad has secretly trained the pigeons to peck their eyes out

    Israel should stick to doing genius stuff like this, not bombing the fuck out of kids in Gaza
  • Oh, Canada! Two federal by-elections yesterday, plus impending provincial general election in British Columbia:

    > Conservatives take long-time Liberal stronghold in Montreal riding of LaSalle—Émard—Verdun
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_LaSalle—Émard—Verdun_federal_by-election

    Yet another by-election defeat for Trudeau, whose Liberals recently lost a key Toronto stronghold.

    > New Democrats retain long-time NDP stronghold in east Winnipeg riding of Elmwood—Transcona
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Elmwood—Transcona_federal_by-election

    Dippers resist rising Tory tide.

    > Impending provincial general election in British Columbia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_British_Columbia_general_election

    Most recent polling shows incumbent NDP tied with new-model Conservative Party of BC, which elected zero MPs at last provincial GE, and had been essentially kaput in provincial politics for two generations.

    HOWEVER, it has recently replaced the BC Liberals (small-c conservatives) who a decade ago were the governing party in the province. In fact, the Libs changed their name to "British Columbia United (BCU) last year, then announced last month they would NOT be contesting the 2024 GE.

    Note there if form in BC history and politics, for polarization between the (ostensibly) socialist NPD on one side, versus the party of "free enterprise". With the latter not infrequently putting old wine in newer bottles, from Liberal or Conservative > Liberal-Conservative > BC Social Credit Party > Liberal and now > Conservative
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720
    edited September 17
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
  • Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.

    Not sure that Trump has ever had the power to pass laws in Georgia.
    Trump DID have the power to appoint US Supreme Court Justices, includiung members of the majority that overturned Roe v Wade thus leading to "the new Georgia law."

    Though perhaps you missed THAT news flash?
  • Cicero said:

    Taz said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    Sensible.

    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.

    What do the Lib Dems offer anything to the country apart from being a protest vote to discontented Tories in the shires ?
    Compared to the Tories?

    Just for starters, how about efficient, uncorrupt administration in local government across the country. Moderate, constructive and responsible attitudes. A positive engagement with the EU. A belief in decency and basic standards including respect for our armed forces, teachers, doctors and the civil service. A massive number of informed, well thought policies crafted by practitioners and experts. A contempt for lies and bullshit...
    Anyone who has experienced a Lib Dem bar chart calls shenanigans on that last claim.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Apparently, it's only the newest pagers that have exploded, so perhaps Mossad got hold of them at source, and meddled with them then.

    That expands the range of potential methods.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    edited September 17
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    Johnson wasn't just getting £100,000 wallpaper from Brownlow, he was getting holidays and rent free accomodation in the UK paid for by all and sundry including allegedly Bamford, who from what I remember would also pick up the tab for Johnson's groceries.

    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/boris-johnson-cannot-live-on-wine-and-party-food-alone/

    And you never knew all this because it was of no interest to the client media.

    Like this one because he was unceremoniously evicted from No 10

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/boris-johnson-accepts-another-10000-in-accommodation-from-tory-donor

    Now if I was Starmer I would have avoided this pitfall. Did he not realise that the client media would equate Mrs Starmer's wardrobe to Johnson's manifold buckshee benefits? Has he forgotten Currygate which was pitched as multiple times worse than Johnson's time at COVID party-central?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    Can a tiny battery in a pager do that much damage? The images show fighters being instantly killed, or mashed from the waist down etc

    Not nice but these are hardened Hezbollah fighters who would kill an Israeli without a moment’s thought. And war is war

    There is speculation Israel managed to weaponise one entire batch of pagers. Presumably with tiny explosives?

    Your explanation is more diverting and scary, however
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    'exploding' is, I think, the wrong term. It's probably a deflagration. Although the difference probably matters little if it's next to your body... :)

    It actually concerns me that software could override the battery charging/discharging circuitry to do this. If true, that makes many devices far less safe from malicious actors. I'd love to know the full details...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,984
    Taz said:

    stodge said:

    Taz said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    I'm just hoping that when Parliament starts up again the LibDems can start making some sensible noise. They've got a couple of decent committee chairs and are scattered in reasonable numbers among the others.
    Sensible.

    The Lib Dems are the all things to all middle class men and women party. The Waitrose Party as Gardenwalker referred to them.

    What do the Lib Dems offer anything to the country apart from being a protest vote to discontented Tories in the shires ?
    Pretty mean spirited of you in all honesty. You could say thr same about all parties - rightly or wrongly, most parties look to those who support them and then seek to reach out to those who don't.

    I don't see much evidence of either Labour or the Conservatives moving beyond their core support.
    It is not mean spirited. It is a genuine question. What do they offer the country apart from being a protest vote to Tories in the shires ? What do they offer the Red Wall communities for example. There was precious little scrutiny of them during the election campaign and they were quick enough to jump into bed with the Tories at the first opportunity.
    As a wise man once said "that was then but this is now".

    We're all friends on here so I'm not going to call a spade a garden implement. The LD focus is on the 38 Conservative seats they can win (in their top 50 targets) which would probably make the party the lead opposition in the next Parliament.

    That's the aim and if Reform and Labour can assist in that re-alignment so much the better. I think IF that were to happen (and let's be honest, it's a long shot), the problems for the party would be of a different order but that's for another day.

    For now, therefore, it's to the voters in those key 40-50 southern and southwestern constituencies that Davey is speaking. That's politics - that's how it works.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    Can a tiny battery in a pager do that much damage? The images show fighters being instantly killed, or mashed from the waist down etc

    Not nice but these are hardened Hezbollah fighters who would kill an Israeli without a moment’s thought. And war is war

    There is speculation Israel managed to weaponise one entire batch of pagers. Presumably with tiny explosives?

    Your explanation is more diverting and scary, however
    Yeah, some of the details coming out make a software hack less likely.

    If I used a pager I'd want to know it didn't come from the same factory as Hezbollah's.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.

    Not sure that Trump has ever had the power to pass laws in Georgia.
    Trump DID have the power to appoint US Supreme Court Justices, includiung members of the majority that overturned Roe v Wade thus leading to "the new Georgia law."

    Though perhaps you missed THAT news flash?
    Presidents appointing SC judges is hardly a news flash. That’s exactly what they’ve always done.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720
    edited September 17
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    I can never forget Gordon Brown's different approach to government leaks when in opposition...

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=QIrweIqqsOc
  • Liberal defeat in federal by-election for key Montreal riding, to candidate of Bloc Quebecois, illustrates the historic, traditional electoral relationship between BQ and Conservative Party in francophone Quebec.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Could be trouble brewing if the dock workers strike goes ahead in the USA . Currently upto 25,000 workers could strike from October 1st on the east coast . This could cause economic problems and could be further exacerbated if workers in the west decide to come out in sympathy .

    This is the last thing Harris wants to see . The WH would be reluctant to use the Taft-Hartley Act to force workers back to work given the Unions generally support the Dems . It could put Dems in a very difficult position .
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    A fire from a device in your pocket is going to end up with an injury, which matches the reports we’ve seen.

    A ‘Special Limited Edition’ device, from a compromised or intercepted supply chain, would be funnier though. It means the terrorists can’t trust anyone any more.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    Johnson wasn't just getting £100,000 wallpaper from Brownlow, he was getting holidays and rent free accomodation in the UK paid for by all and sundry including allegedly Bamford, who from what I remember would also pick up the tab for Johnson's groceries.

    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/boris-johnson-cannot-live-on-wine-and-party-food-alone/

    And you never knew all this because it was of no interest to the client media.

    Like this one because he was unceremoniously evicted from No 10

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/boris-johnson-accepts-another-10000-in-accommodation-from-tory-donor

    Now if I was Starmer I would have avoided this pitfall. Did he not realise that the client media would equate Mrs Starmer's wardrobe to Johnson's manifold buckshee benefits? Has he forgotten Currygate which was pitched as multiple times worse than Johnson's time at COVID party-central?
    There is also the matter of Donkeygate. But only three people have ever really understood that – one of whom is dead, another who has gone mad, and a third, who has forgotten all about it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    The cases cast from a high end explosive?

    With a software feature to go bang only when connected via a given number *and* sent a specific page?
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.

    Not sure that Trump has ever had the power to pass laws in Georgia.
    Trump DID have the power to appoint US Supreme Court Justices, includiung members of the majority that overturned Roe v Wade thus leading to "the new Georgia law."

    Though perhaps you missed THAT news flash?
    Presidents appointing SC judges is hardly a news flash. That’s exactly what they’ve always done.
    You do NOT think it of any importance let alone significance, WHO(M) a POTUS appoints to SCOTUS?

    Your fellow Trumpists certainly disagree!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    I can never forget Gordon Brown's different approach to government leaks when in opposition...

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=QIrweIqqsOc
    Which came up during the arrest of a Tory shadow cabinet minister for receiving leaks.

    Labour actually claimed that receiving leaked information was a crime.

    A story went around that a Conservative MP who was a Special Constable, was going to arrest Brown at the despatch box - on the basis of the government claim and that video.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    The cases cast from a high end explosive?

    With a software feature to go bang only when connected via a given number *and* sent a specific page?
    They all seem to have exploded - not caught fire - at the same time. For maximum psych impact

    If you’re in Tehran Damascus or Beirut, right now you cannot trust ANY technology

    Awks
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    In more Trafalgar fun, the bow-tied one has Trump ahead in Georgia by less than 2 points. I think last time out, or maybe 2016, he overstated Trump across the board by 4

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/GA-24-General-0916_Report.pdf
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.

    Not sure that Trump has ever had the power to pass laws in Georgia.
    Trump DID have the power to appoint US Supreme Court Justices, includiung members of the majority that overturned Roe v Wade thus leading to "the new Georgia law."

    Though perhaps you missed THAT news flash?
    Presidents appointing SC judges is hardly a news flash. That’s exactly what they’ve always done.
    True. But Trump did 3 and they were guided missiles to take down Roe & Wade. He was keen to take ownership of that - the end of those protections for women - so it's fair enough to stick him with the consequences.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.

    Not sure that Trump has ever had the power to pass laws in Georgia.
    Trump DID have the power to appoint US Supreme Court Justices, includiung members of the majority that overturned Roe v Wade thus leading to "the new Georgia law."

    Though perhaps you missed THAT news flash?
    It's s heartbreaking story. A woman - a mother of a young kid - dying in hospital because medics are scared of the legal consequences of saving her life. Maybe it's Georgia Republicans we should blame, but that's still a problem for the Republican Party. And Trump enabled this.

    My wife's a doctor so I tend to also see thing from the doctor's point of view. It's hard to imagine what it must be like to be the physician responsible in this situation. How can anyone work as a doctor under these conditions?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    The cases cast from a high end explosive?

    With a software feature to go bang only when connected via a given number *and* sent a specific page?
    Something like that, yes. Maybe a special edition battery rather than the case? 50% lithium polymer, 50% RDX.

    It wouldn't be too hard technically.

    Owning the supply chain without anyone knowing would be the big hurdle though.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    Johnson wasn't just getting £100,000 wallpaper from Brownlow, he was getting holidays and rent free accomodation in the UK paid for by all and sundry including allegedly Bamford, who from what I remember would also pick up the tab for Johnson's groceries.

    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/boris-johnson-cannot-live-on-wine-and-party-food-alone/

    And you never knew all this because it was of no interest to the client media.

    Like this one because he was unceremoniously evicted from No 10

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/boris-johnson-accepts-another-10000-in-accommodation-from-tory-donor

    Now if I was Starmer I would have avoided this pitfall. Did he not realise that the client media would equate Mrs Starmer's wardrobe to Johnson's manifold buckshee benefits? Has he forgotten Currygate which was pitched as multiple times worse than Johnson's time at COVID party-central?
    There is also the matter of Donkeygate. But only three people have ever really understood that – one of whom is dead, another who has gone mad, and a third, who has forgotten all about it.
    I hadn't heard of Donkeygate. This is what I found....Sunday Mail fans look away.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Y9EWO-6e8ng
  • Leon said:

    Good morning from Whistler. Talking of Tory leaders, yesterday I spent an entire day driving from Kelowna to *weird hick mountain town with inbred people*, then to Kamloops, then Whistler. The main road was shut so it took FOREVER

    However, there was some tolerably pretty countryside on the way


    It is a great drive. We did the loop in 2016 - Vancouver-Kelowna-Revelstoke-Banff-Jasper-Whistler-Vancouver. 3 weeks and bloody marvelous. Revelstoke was bathed in sunshine when we were there but at one time it held the record for the highest recorded winter snowfall in the world - 80ft in one winter.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    A fire from a device in your pocket is going to end up with an injury, which matches the reports we’ve seen.

    A ‘Special Limited Edition’ device, from a compromised or intercepted supply chain, would be funnier though. It means the terrorists can’t trust anyone any more.
    Will Del Trotter be avoiding his local Lebanese restaurant tonight?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    The cases cast from a high end explosive?

    With a software feature to go bang only when connected via a given number *and* sent a specific page?
    They all seem to have exploded - not caught fire - at the same time. For maximum psych impact

    If you’re in Tehran Damascus or Beirut, right now you cannot trust ANY technology

    Awks
    There are specific systems for sending out a mass page - that is, sending a page (or pages) to a whole list of pagers.

    I wrote one for AT&T long ago, when the world was young.

    Think - hospital calls all staff in a specified group to come to the hospital.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Good morning from Whistler. Talking of Tory leaders, yesterday I spent an entire day driving from Kelowna to *weird hick mountain town with inbred people*, then to Kamloops, then Whistler. The main road was shut so it took FOREVER

    However, there was some tolerably pretty countryside on the way


    It is a great drive. We did the loop in 2016 - Vancouver-Kelowna-Revelstoke-Banff-Jasper-Whistler-Vancouver. 3 weeks and bloody marvelous. Revelstoke was bathed in sunshine when we were there but at one time it held the record for the highest recorded winter snowfall in the world - 80ft in one winter.
    That journey yesterday is one of the most impressive days of driving I’ve experienced. Majestic

    That said; the drive I did ten days ago down the Piva Canyon and into Durmitor National Park, in Montenegro, was even more dramatic and astounding

    But also much scarier because Montenegrin roads and Montenegrin drivers

    If you want relaxed beauty, go for Canada
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    nico679 said:

    Could be trouble brewing if the dock workers strike goes ahead in the USA . Currently upto 25,000 workers could strike from October 1st on the east coast . This could cause economic problems and could be further exacerbated if workers in the west decide to come out in sympathy .

    This is the last thing Harris wants to see . The WH would be reluctant to use the Taft-Hartley Act to force workers back to work given the Unions generally support the Dems . It could put Dems in a very difficult position .

    Is this the fabled October Surprise?

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    'exploding' is, I think, the wrong term. It's probably a deflagration. Although the difference probably matters little if it's next to your body... :)

    It actually concerns me that software could override the battery charging/discharging circuitry to do this. If true, that makes many devices far less safe from malicious actors. I'd love to know the full details...
    Have you not watched any of the videos? They don't look the same as a battery failure.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    The exploding pagers thing. If it was explosives in the devices how did they manage to efficiently distribute explosive tainted pagers to just the right people with no one knowing? You’d have to have control of the whole supply chain, no? Remarkable if the case.

    Causing the batteries to overheat seems more plausible, weirdly, but the amount of damage that’s been caused seems beyond the capability of a small lithium battery
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    The cases cast from a high end explosive?

    With a software feature to go bang only when connected via a given number *and* sent a specific page?
    Something like that, yes. Maybe a special edition battery rather than the case? 50% lithium polymer, 50% RDX.

    It wouldn't be too hard technically.

    Owning the supply chain without anyone knowing would be the big hurdle though.

    Once the shipping container is open, and the stock is in the shelf of a warehouse, security would only be moderate. Pagers are ancient tech - low value.

    Bloke in a van rolls up, delivers some stuff. The inventory matches before and after his visit. The fact that he swapped some boxes over goes unnoticed.

    Then again - swap the shipping container?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.

    Not sure that Trump has ever had the power to pass laws in Georgia.
    Trump DID have the power to appoint US Supreme Court Justices, includiung members of the majority that overturned Roe v Wade thus leading to "the new Georgia law."

    Though perhaps you missed THAT news flash?
    Presidents appointing SC judges is hardly a news flash. That’s exactly what they’ve always done.
    You do NOT think it of any importance let alone significance, WHO(M) a POTUS appoints to SCOTUS?

    Your fellow Trumpists certainly disagree!
    If you're a democrat, what's the problem with letting democratic state legislatures decide what the laws should be?
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