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Jenrick continues his surge in the betting markets – politicalbetting.com

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  • nico679 said:

    Could be trouble brewing if the dock workers strike goes ahead in the USA . Currently upto 25,000 workers could strike from October 1st on the east coast . This could cause economic problems and could be further exacerbated if workers in the west decide to come out in sympathy .

    This is the last thing Harris wants to see . The WH would be reluctant to use the Taft-Hartley Act to force workers back to work given the Unions generally support the Dems . It could put Dems in a very difficult position .

    Is this the fabled October Surprise?

    No.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,727

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    'exploding' is, I think, the wrong term. It's probably a deflagration. Although the difference probably matters little if it's next to your body... :)

    It actually concerns me that software could override the battery charging/discharging circuitry to do this. If true, that makes many devices far less safe from malicious actors. I'd love to know the full details...
    Have you not watched any of the videos? They don't look the same as a battery failure.
    There are vids of people being blown across a room. It’s def an explosion, not a battery fire
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,912

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    'exploding' is, I think, the wrong term. It's probably a deflagration. Although the difference probably matters little if it's next to your body... :)

    It actually concerns me that software could override the battery charging/discharging circuitry to do this. If true, that makes many devices far less safe from malicious actors. I'd love to know the full details...
    Have you not watched any of the videos? They don't look the same as a battery failure.
    No, I haven't. I prefer not to see such videos if I can avoid them.

    I saw a piccie of a Ukrainian soldier earlier who had been killed with a sword. I wish I hadn't; one of the problems with t'Internet is that this sort of thing is far too easy to come across.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,874
    Is the NHS still using pagers?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,541
    DougSeal said:

    The exploding pagers thing. If it was explosives in the devices how did they manage to efficiently distribute explosive tainted pagers to just the right people with no one knowing? You’d have to have control of the whole supply chain, no? Remarkable if the case.

    Causing the batteries to overheat seems more plausible, weirdly, but the amount of damage that’s been caused seems beyond the capability of a small lithium battery

    Think bigger.

    Infiltrate the supply chain to make *all* the pagers of a specific brand and model, going to Lebanon, a bomb. Which only goes off when the number they connect with is the right one *and* they get the right page.

    Bet Hezzbolah have bought a specific model in bulk….
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,912

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,541

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
  • Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    'exploding' is, I think, the wrong term. It's probably a deflagration. Although the difference probably matters little if it's next to your body... :)

    It actually concerns me that software could override the battery charging/discharging circuitry to do this. If true, that makes many devices far less safe from malicious actors. I'd love to know the full details...
    Have you not watched any of the videos? They don't look the same as a battery failure.
    No, I haven't. I prefer not to see such videos if I can avoid them.

    I saw a piccie of a Ukrainian soldier earlier who had been killed with a sword. I wish I hadn't; one of the problems with t'Internet is that this sort of thing is far too easy to come across.
    Subset of PBers just LOVES that kind of stuff. (Un)usual suspects?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    An interesting new take on why Bush and Blair invaded Iraq. An interesting watch.....

    https://x.com/SaraYafi/status/1835598247768859017
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,694

    DougSeal said:

    The exploding pagers thing. If it was explosives in the devices how did they manage to efficiently distribute explosive tainted pagers to just the right people with no one knowing? You’d have to have control of the whole supply chain, no? Remarkable if the case.

    Causing the batteries to overheat seems more plausible, weirdly, but the amount of damage that’s been caused seems beyond the capability of a small lithium battery

    Think bigger.

    Infiltrate the supply chain to make *all* the pagers of a specific brand and model, going to Lebanon, a bomb. Which only goes off when the number they connect with is the right one *and* they get the right page.

    Bet Hezzbolah have bought a specific model in bulk….
    The label on the cases appear to suggest they are Taiwanese (Apollo Pagers). Strangely their website is down...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,727

    DougSeal said:

    The exploding pagers thing. If it was explosives in the devices how did they manage to efficiently distribute explosive tainted pagers to just the right people with no one knowing? You’d have to have control of the whole supply chain, no? Remarkable if the case.

    Causing the batteries to overheat seems more plausible, weirdly, but the amount of damage that’s been caused seems beyond the capability of a small lithium battery

    Think bigger.

    Infiltrate the supply chain to make *all* the pagers of a specific brand and model, going to Lebanon, a bomb. Which only goes off when the number they connect with is the right one *and* they get the right page.

    Bet Hezzbolah have bought a specific model in bulk….
    The label on the cases appear to suggest they are Taiwanese (Apollo Pagers). Strangely their website is down...
    2,800 injured. Several dead

    Incroyable

    This is up there with Entebbe

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/sep/17/middle-east-crisis-live-netanyahu-expands-gaza-war-aims-blinken-heads-to-egypt
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Is it distorted? The A in ARM originally stood for Acorn.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,912

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,458
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    'exploding' is, I think, the wrong term. It's probably a deflagration. Although the difference probably matters little if it's next to your body... :)

    It actually concerns me that software could override the battery charging/discharging circuitry to do this. If true, that makes many devices far less safe from malicious actors. I'd love to know the full details...
    Have you not watched any of the videos? They don't look the same as a battery failure.
    There are vids of people being blown across a room. It’s def an explosion, not a battery fire
    Surely you didn't watch this doom porn more than once Leon.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,912

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Is it distorted? The A in ARM originally stood for Acorn.
    I never knew that... ;)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,874
    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,727

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    'exploding' is, I think, the wrong term. It's probably a deflagration. Although the difference probably matters little if it's next to your body... :)

    It actually concerns me that software could override the battery charging/discharging circuitry to do this. If true, that makes many devices far less safe from malicious actors. I'd love to know the full details...
    Have you not watched any of the videos? They don't look the same as a battery failure.
    There are vids of people being blown across a room. It’s def an explosion, not a battery fire
    Surely you didn't watch this doom porn more than once Leon.
    I’ve watched about half a dozen videos because I want to know what’s going on in the world. Maybe you’re different and you prefer to be TOLD about the videos by someone else, who may or may not be telling the truth
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,458
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    'exploding' is, I think, the wrong term. It's probably a deflagration. Although the difference probably matters little if it's next to your body... :)

    It actually concerns me that software could override the battery charging/discharging circuitry to do this. If true, that makes many devices far less safe from malicious actors. I'd love to know the full details...
    Have you not watched any of the videos? They don't look the same as a battery failure.
    There are vids of people being blown across a room. It’s def an explosion, not a battery fire
    Surely you didn't watch this doom porn more than once Leon.
    I’ve watched about half a dozen videos because I want to know what’s going on in the world. Maybe you’re different and you prefer to be TOLD about the videos by someone else, who may or may not be telling the truth
    I'll take your word for it. That's what correspondents like yourself are paid to do by your newspapers on my behalf.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,727

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    'exploding' is, I think, the wrong term. It's probably a deflagration. Although the difference probably matters little if it's next to your body... :)

    It actually concerns me that software could override the battery charging/discharging circuitry to do this. If true, that makes many devices far less safe from malicious actors. I'd love to know the full details...
    Have you not watched any of the videos? They don't look the same as a battery failure.
    There are vids of people being blown across a room. It’s def an explosion, not a battery fire
    Surely you didn't watch this doom porn more than once Leon.
    I’ve watched about half a dozen videos because I want to know what’s going on in the world. Maybe you’re different and you prefer to be TOLD about the videos by someone else, who may or may not be telling the truth
    I'll take your word for it. That's what correspondents like yourself are paid to do by your newspapers on my behalf.
    Can’t say fairer than that

    LEON: YOUR OFFICIAL NEWS SOURCE

    I like it
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,679
    Turning pagers into explosives — how did they do that?
  • WildernessPt2WildernessPt2 Posts: 715
    edited September 17

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Is it distorted? The A in ARM originally stood for Acorn.
    I never knew that... ;)
    I do remember as a young teenager using Archimedes computers at school, and then seeing about five years later windows for workgroups on my open day to university and wondering why it was so slow and ugly to look at ...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,440

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    See also how Head and Shoulders came into being - a Newcastle Uni researcher talking about his work on piroctone olamine down the pub to a person at Proctor and Gamble.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
  • Interesting how some PBers are so enamored with "states rights" versus "federalism" re: US constitutional law, while (appearing anyway) total freaking ignorant about the historic pitfalls let alone injustices of ACTUAL application of classic "states rights" doctrine in American history.

    Including, for example, denial of civil and voting rights to millions of non-White Americans by "democratic" state legislatures, under the "one drop" theory of genetics.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,912

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Is it distorted? The A in ARM originally stood for Acorn.
    I never knew that... ;)
    I do remember as a young teenager using Archimedes computers at school, and then seeing about five years later windows for workgroups on my open day to university and wondering why it was so slow and ugly to look at ...
    RISC OS as used by the Archimedes (not Arthur, the original 1987 stopgap OS introduced when the US team failed us...) was a great OS, with some usability features that are still not common in many other OSs.

    I've so many happy memories of working on that near the company's end (sobs...)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,547
    eek said:

    I think this just shows how dire the Tory party is - someone who cares more about Copyright infringement than children*...

    *38 year old retired boxers

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,901
    Roger said:

    An interesting new take on why Bush and Blair invaded Iraq. An interesting watch.....

    https://x.com/SaraYafi/status/1835598247768859017

    That Hezbollah are cheery live-and-let-live types? "Interesting" is one word...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    There was an incident, where Israeli intelligence replaced someone’s mobile with their own, modified version.

    Then phoned them. To say goodbye.
    Just seen the images of injured Hezbollah fighters

    😶

    It’s terrifying and it’s genius. They’ll have to go back to carrier pigeons. lol
    It is certainly an upgrade on exploding cigars.
    Thing is, when they do resort to carrier pigeons, it will turn out that Mossad has secretly trained the pigeons to peck their eyes out

    Israel should stick to doing genius stuff like this, not bombing the fuck out of kids in Gaza
    Killing an old woman in a food market in Beirut?

    You're sick.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,058
    We've come a long, long way together
    Through the hard times and the good
    I have to conflagrate you, baby
    I have to page you like I should
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,874
    Owen Winter
    @OwenWntr

    Harris's largest lead to date in our tracker (4.4 points) as the debate bounce materialises:

    https://economist.com/interactive/us-2024-election/trump-harris-polls


    https://x.com/OwenWntr/status/1836045230077862040
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,727
    Andy_JS said:

    Turning pagers into explosives — how did they do that?

    Consensus seems to be Israel hacked the supply chain and put tiny booby traps in each pager. Somewhere between Taiwan and The Levant

    And did it in a way that they could trigger them all with one message

    😶

    Apparently they were using pagers BECAUSE they were warned mobiles were a risk (might explode, might be tracked)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,541
    Andy_JS said:

    Turning pagers into explosives — how did they do that?

    Case molded in rigid plasticised explosives?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,852

    Interesting how some PBers are so enamored with "states rights" versus "federalism" re: US constitutional law, while (appearing anyway) total freaking ignorant about the historic pitfalls let alone injustices of ACTUAL application of classic "states rights" doctrine in American history.

    Including, for example, denial of civil and voting rights to millions of non-White Americans by "democratic" state legislatures, under the "one drop" theory of genetics.

    Does letting Americans choose the federal government have a better record? Perhaps the revolution should be considered a moral stain.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,440

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    From small Acorns might oaks may grow - and ARM is the mightiest of oaks - as it's what all computers will eventually end up being...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,679
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Turning pagers into explosives — how did they do that?

    Consensus seems to be Israel hacked the supply chain and put tiny booby traps in each pager. Somewhere between Taiwan and The Levant

    And did it in a way that they could trigger them all with one message

    😶

    Apparently they were using pagers BECAUSE they were warned mobiles were a risk (might explode, might be tracked)
    I just hope this didn't affect anyone else who might have got hold of one of these pagers.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,901
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    That's it exactly. "But we're the good guys."
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,912

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,541

    Interesting how some PBers are so enamored with "states rights" versus "federalism" re: US constitutional law, while (appearing anyway) total freaking ignorant about the historic pitfalls let alone injustices of ACTUAL application of classic "states rights" doctrine in American history.

    Including, for example, denial of civil and voting rights to millions of non-White Americans by "democratic" state legislatures, under the "one drop" theory of genetics.

    I always liked the fact that, in the end, the Slave states wanted to override the rights on the non-Slave states. They wanted to the North to catch and return escaped slaves and (with the Dred Scott decision) demanded that slavery should be supported *in the North*

    Oh, and the Confederate constitution banned states in the confederacy from… banning slavery.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,536

    Interesting how some PBers are so enamored with "states rights" versus "federalism" re: US constitutional law, while (appearing anyway) total freaking ignorant about the historic pitfalls let alone injustices of ACTUAL application of classic "states rights" doctrine in American history.

    Including, for example, denial of civil and voting rights to millions of non-White Americans by "democratic" state legislatures, under the "one drop" theory of genetics.

    States which were then "Democrat 'controlled but now staunch Republican. And Lincoln must be spinning in his grave!

    Funny thing, politics,
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,912
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    From small Acorns might oaks may grow - and ARM is the mightiest of oaks - as it's what all computers will eventually end up being...
    Don't let the RISC-V people hear you say that...
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,780
    edited September 17
    This pager story is mad. Like something you'd read in Horowitz's Alex Rider series.

    Scary how much punch a tiny pager can have stuffed into it. Gruesome.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,727
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    There was an incident, where Israeli intelligence replaced someone’s mobile with their own, modified version.

    Then phoned them. To say goodbye.
    Just seen the images of injured Hezbollah fighters

    😶

    It’s terrifying and it’s genius. They’ll have to go back to carrier pigeons. lol
    It is certainly an upgrade on exploding cigars.
    Thing is, when they do resort to carrier pigeons, it will turn out that Mossad has secretly trained the pigeons to peck their eyes out

    Israel should stick to doing genius stuff like this, not bombing the fuck out of kids in Gaza
    Killing an old woman in a food market in Beirut?

    You're sick.
    You just hate Israel, Jews and by extension yourself

    For the last few months you have been raging - with justification - at Israel’s reckless and indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Gaza. On that I largely agree with you

    But here is Israel doing something forensic, precise and brilliantly clever, the opposite of indiscriminate. It is exactly targeting Hezbollah fighters in the most discriminating way. And STILL you rage

    The fact is you don’t want Israel to defend itself at all, and you want Jews to simply accept rape and death
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,656
    edited September 17

    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer’s Labour feels like a fag-end government already. Watch these clips of Angela Eagle giving interviews this morning:

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/1836042758588432461

    https://x.com/timesradio/status/1835942047561503172

    Spending political capital on stuff like removing the WFA is a choice, but the clothes donations are a real unforced error. The obvious solution for glitzy balls or whatever his wife needs to go to is the US first lady one. A dress created for the event, worn once then auctioned off afterwards for charity - all completely above board and known knowns if you will. If they're not comfortable with that then he'll just have to buy her a new one as every other man in the land does for a nice function or whatever out his own pocket. Business and penguin suits aren't that expensive and should come out SKS' salary.
    You’ve got two options really.

    One is the US FL approach, get a load of British designers to dress her, give the designers publicity, then either hand the dresses back or auction them for charity afterwards.

    The other is the Carrie Johnson approach of renting dresses for events, which is what the ladies of the media do when they are on TV five days a week and can’t keep repeating outfits.
    Would Lady Vic be allowed to charge the dress rental to party expenses? If so, what's the bloody difference with Lord Alli (a long-term donor) just buying them for her?
    You rent a £1,000 dress for £100, in the same way many men rent a penguin suit for a ball*

    As commented earlier, that’s somewhat different from giving Lady S a five-figure cheque and sending her to Kensington High St.

    * Mr and Mrs Johnson were totally skint when living in Downing St, thanks to his divorce and much reduced income, and her working for a charity on a low wage.
    I’m sorry, but if you cannot afford bespoke tailoring for these events then you have no business attending these events.

    The thought of wearing clothes that other people have worn makes me ick.
    Just think about who's slept on the sheets in your hotel room. You'll have to stay home.
    It's not the sleeping you have to worry about.
    I was thinking that at the Grand. Nice beds. At least 50% of nights probably
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,694
    edited September 17
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    There was an incident, where Israeli intelligence replaced someone’s mobile with their own, modified version.

    Then phoned them. To say goodbye.
    Just seen the images of injured Hezbollah fighters

    😶

    It’s terrifying and it’s genius. They’ll have to go back to carrier pigeons. lol
    It is certainly an upgrade on exploding cigars.
    Thing is, when they do resort to carrier pigeons, it will turn out that Mossad has secretly trained the pigeons to peck their eyes out

    Israel should stick to doing genius stuff like this, not bombing the fuck out of kids in Gaza
    Killing an old woman in a food market in Beirut?

    You're sick.
    This must be the most precisely targeted military attack ever conceived.

    It turns out that even the Iranian ambassador to the Lebanon was a Hezbollah operative. Who knew?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,347
    Musk hasn't quite got the hang of "with great power comes at least a modicum of responsibility".
  • eekeek Posts: 28,440
    Interesting article on the state of the LLM versions of AI - it's not pleasant reading if you have invested in such things

    https://www.wheresyoured.at/subprimeai/
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,780

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    There was an incident, where Israeli intelligence replaced someone’s mobile with their own, modified version.

    Then phoned them. To say goodbye.
    Just seen the images of injured Hezbollah fighters

    😶

    It’s terrifying and it’s genius. They’ll have to go back to carrier pigeons. lol
    It is certainly an upgrade on exploding cigars.
    Thing is, when they do resort to carrier pigeons, it will turn out that Mossad has secretly trained the pigeons to peck their eyes out

    Israel should stick to doing genius stuff like this, not bombing the fuck out of kids in Gaza
    Killing an old woman in a food market in Beirut?

    You're sick.
    This must be the most precisely targeted military attack ever conceived.

    It turns out that even the Iranian ambassador to the Lebanon was a Hezbollah operative. Who knew?
    It's brilliant.

    And in stark contrast to the cowboy operation guarding the border in the run up to the October 7th attack.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Turning pagers into explosives — how did they do that?

    My son would like to know as that is how he receives the shout for the RNLI lifeboat launch
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,901

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    There was an incident, where Israeli intelligence replaced someone’s mobile with their own, modified version.

    Then phoned them. To say goodbye.
    Just seen the images of injured Hezbollah fighters

    😶

    It’s terrifying and it’s genius. They’ll have to go back to carrier pigeons. lol
    It is certainly an upgrade on exploding cigars.
    Thing is, when they do resort to carrier pigeons, it will turn out that Mossad has secretly trained the pigeons to peck their eyes out

    Israel should stick to doing genius stuff like this, not bombing the fuck out of kids in Gaza
    Killing an old woman in a food market in Beirut?

    You're sick.
    This must be the most precisely targeted military attack ever conceived.

    It turns out that even the Iranian ambassador to the Lebanon was a Hezbollah operative. Who knew?
    That was exactly my reaction.

    And if you can't celebrate the most precisely targeted military attack ever, by a democratic state against the terrorist organisation which is threatening it, it does rather suggest you don't really want that democratic state to exist.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,694
    Eabhal said:

    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    There was an incident, where Israeli intelligence replaced someone’s mobile with their own, modified version.

    Then phoned them. To say goodbye.
    Just seen the images of injured Hezbollah fighters

    😶

    It’s terrifying and it’s genius. They’ll have to go back to carrier pigeons. lol
    It is certainly an upgrade on exploding cigars.
    Thing is, when they do resort to carrier pigeons, it will turn out that Mossad has secretly trained the pigeons to peck their eyes out

    Israel should stick to doing genius stuff like this, not bombing the fuck out of kids in Gaza
    Killing an old woman in a food market in Beirut?

    You're sick.
    This must be the most precisely targeted military attack ever conceived.

    It turns out that even the Iranian ambassador to the Lebanon was a Hezbollah operative. Who knew?
    It's brilliant.

    And in stark contrast to the cowboy operation guarding the border in the run up to the October 7th attack.
    I think I'd prefer to contrast it with bombing the hell out of Gaza and still not getting all of Hamas.

    Couldn't they have shipped them something like this? It would have saved the world a lot of angst.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,780

    Andy_JS said:

    Turning pagers into explosives — how did they do that?

    My son would like to know as that is how he receives the shout for the RNLI lifeboat launch
    I don't think the far-right are quite as precocious as Mossad.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
  • Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Turning pagers into explosives — how did they do that?

    My son would like to know as that is how he receives the shout for the RNLI lifeboat launch
    I don't think the far-right are quite as precocious as Mossad.
    I was joking
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,016
    edited September 17
    Roger said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    Johnson wasn't just getting £100,000 wallpaper from Brownlow, he was getting holidays and rent free accomodation in the UK paid for by all and sundry including allegedly Bamford, who from what I remember would also pick up the tab for Johnson's groceries.

    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/boris-johnson-cannot-live-on-wine-and-party-food-alone/

    And you never knew all this because it was of no interest to the client media.

    Like this one because he was unceremoniously evicted from No 10

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/04/boris-johnson-accepts-another-10000-in-accommodation-from-tory-donor

    Now if I was Starmer I would have avoided this pitfall. Did he not realise that the client media would equate Mrs Starmer's wardrobe to Johnson's manifold buckshee benefits? Has he forgotten Currygate which was pitched as multiple times worse than Johnson's time at COVID party-central?
    There is also the matter of Donkeygate. But only three people have ever really understood that – one of whom is dead, another who has gone mad, and a third, who has forgotten all about it.
    I hadn't heard of Donkeygate. This is what I found....Sunday Mail fans look away.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Y9EWO-6e8ng
    ...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,874

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    What did you think of 'Micro Men', the BBC TV version of these events?

    Seems not be on iPlayer.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,347
    Cookie said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    That's it exactly. "But we're the good guys."
    The flipside being that the Left tend to be held to higher standards. Eg you're a "hypocrite" by dint of succeeding (materially) in the capitalist society you say is deeply flawed.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    edited September 17
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Turning pagers into explosives — how did they do that?

    Consensus seems to be Israel hacked the supply chain and put tiny booby traps in each pager. Somewhere between Taiwan and The Levant

    And did it in a way that they could trigger them all with one message

    😶

    Apparently they were using pagers BECAUSE they were warned mobiles were a risk (might explode, might be tracked)
    If that’s true, this is one of the greatest military attacks of all time.

    Pagers are very old tech, in the West they’re only still used by emergency services, many of the technical services behind them being long since obsoleted.
  • Interesting how some PBers are so enamored with "states rights" versus "federalism" re: US constitutional law, while (appearing anyway) total freaking ignorant about the historic pitfalls let alone injustices of ACTUAL application of classic "states rights" doctrine in American history.

    Including, for example, denial of civil and voting rights to millions of non-White Americans by "democratic" state legislatures, under the "one drop" theory of genetics.

    States which were then "Democrat 'controlled but now staunch Republican. And Lincoln must be spinning in his grave!

    Funny thing, politics,
    End game of segregation in South (and elsewhere, but especially the South) was reason WHY conservative Southern Democrats switched to being conservative Republicans.

    Key leader in this trend being Strom Thurmond of South Carolina, who was "States Rights" Democratic POTUS nominee in 1948, then Democratic > Republican US Senator.

    Dixiecrats in 1948 being transitional movement in that direction, along with George Wallace in 1968, though GW never did leave the Democrats, and intead won his final elections as Governor of Alabama with the active support of Black voters.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,912

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    What did you think of 'Micro Men', the BBC TV version of these events?

    Seems not be on iPlayer.
    I saw it when it was broadcast. It seemed okay - though the events were *way* before my time.

    It was weird seeing a couple of people depicted whom I knew fairly well - a few people stayed at Acorn for decades. Oh, and Sophie behind the bar at the end.

    There was lots of mythos around the early days of the company during my time there - like the occasion a director 'lost' his sports car. It was found a long time later, behind a load of unsold Electrons. Allegedly...

    That was at Coral Park, now the retail hub on Newmarket Road.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    edited September 17

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.

    Not sure that Trump has ever had the power to pass laws in Georgia.
    Trump DID have the power to appoint US Supreme Court Justices, includiung members of the majority that overturned Roe v Wade thus leading to "the new Georgia law."

    Though perhaps you missed THAT news flash?
    Presidents appointing SC judges is hardly a news flash. That’s exactly what they’ve always done.
    You do NOT think it of any importance let alone significance, WHO(M) a POTUS appoints to SCOTUS?

    Your fellow Trumpists certainly disagree!
    If you're a democrat, what's the problem with letting democratic state legislatures decide what the laws should be?
    So compulsorily Christian prayers in schools, or criminalising any criticism of the ruling party? I’m not a big fan of the US constitution, but it does stop democratic state legislators from enacting some profoundly undemocratic legislation: or did, anyway…

    (Actually the English experience seems to be that compulsory prayer time aka assemblies, is probably the quickest way to turn a population atheist known to man).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,901
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    The Dosh for Frocks scandal is bewilderingly crass

    What made them think: Oh, this will be fine, yes we attacked Boris for wallpaper but who cares

    Basically they wanted to cream the system from Day 1. They were just waiting for THEIR turn to be venal greedy fucks

    I think it’s more that they truly believe their own piety. They see themselves as pure and good, unlike the evil Tories so as they are pure and good anything they do is not bad.

    We are getting bought clothes for good reasons because we don’t do bad things, Boris was getting wallpaper because he was an awful person so that’s a bad thing.

    Today on the news Labour ministers are apparently calling for Simon Case to move forward his resignation because of leaks from number ten. Bad leaks against good Labour. They didn’t however call for him to resign over leaks when the Tories were in number ten - good leaks. And so on.
    That's it exactly. "But we're the good guys."
    The flipside being that the Left tend to be held to higher standards. Eg you're a "hypocrite" by dint of succeeding (materially) in the capitalist society you say is deeply flawed.
    I don't think that's it. It's more that when you spend years shouting 'grifters' and then get caught grifting within two months of taking office, reaction tends not to be too sympathetic.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,548

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    What did you think of 'Micro Men', the BBC TV version of these events?

    Seems not be on iPlayer.
    Is that the one with Alexander Armstrong as Clive Sinclair ?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,877
    The BBC have added Life on Mars to Netflix so my wife and I are watching it, I remember the Labour campaign against Dave which used the show in the big billboard. I seriously can't think of a worse campaign against a political opponent. Great show and associating someone who you don't like with it is properly stupid.
  • Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Fucker Carlson a "journalist"? NOT in the Anglo-American tradition! His model being Pravda.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,780
    There are going to be an awful lot of small electronic and white goods getting chucked out in Lebanon tomorrow.

    What's that ticking noise come from the fridge?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,536

    Interesting how some PBers are so enamored with "states rights" versus "federalism" re: US constitutional law, while (appearing anyway) total freaking ignorant about the historic pitfalls let alone injustices of ACTUAL application of classic "states rights" doctrine in American history.

    Including, for example, denial of civil and voting rights to millions of non-White Americans by "democratic" state legislatures, under the "one drop" theory of genetics.

    States which were then "Democrat 'controlled but now staunch Republican. And Lincoln must be spinning in his grave!

    Funny thing, politics,
    End game of segregation in South (and elsewhere, but especially the South) was reason WHY conservative Southern Democrats switched to being conservative Republicans.

    Key leader in this trend being Strom Thurmond of South Carolina, who was "States Rights" Democratic POTUS nominee in 1948, then Democratic > Republican US Senator.

    Dixiecrats in 1948 being transitional movement in that direction, along with George Wallace in 1968, though GW never did leave the Democrats, and intead won his final elections as Governor of Alabama with the active support of Black voters.
    Lyndon Johnson did a good job.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,658
    Eabhal said:

    There are going to be an awful lot of small electronic and white goods getting chucked out in Lebanon tomorrow.

    What's that ticking noise come from the fridge?

    My kitchen timer's looking dodgy.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    eek said:

    Interesting article on the state of the LLM versions of AI - it's not pleasant reading if you have invested in such things

    https://www.wheresyoured.at/subprimeai/

    OK I am persuaded. By this and (more so) by the Tom Cruise's mother problem.

    Problem is what to do. I am invested in all this precisely because of a strategy which is meant to avoid ever being in this position - buying the whole SP500 and the whole world. Can't complain about returns over the last year or two, but it's time to have a think.

  • WildernessPt2WildernessPt2 Posts: 715
    edited September 17
    MaxPB said:

    The BBC have added Life on Mars to Netflix so my wife and I are watching it, I remember the Labour campaign against Dave which used the show in the big billboard. I seriously can't think of a worse campaign against a political opponent. Great show and associating someone who you don't like with it is properly stupid.

    People actually want police officers like Hunt. Cameron was far too smooth, comparing him to Hunt did him a lot of good.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,458

    MaxPB said:

    The BBC have added Life on Mars to Netflix so my wife and I are watching it, I remember the Labour campaign against Dave which used the show in the big billboard. I seriously can't think of a worse campaign against a political opponent. Great show and associating someone who you don't like with it is properly stupid.

    People actually want police officers like Hunt. Cameron was far too smooth, comparing him to Hunt did him a lot of good.
    Here's a video of Dave kicking in a nonce.

    https://youtu.be/PHP3Jih_rfA?si=zeRUL8_5dKTdP4JU
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,194
    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Carlson did call Cooper "the best historian in the United States".

    I'm sure someone can dig out a list of all the appalling shite that has come out of the journalists mouth for you.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,815
    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.

    Not sure that Trump has ever had the power to pass laws in Georgia.
    Trump DID have the power to appoint US Supreme Court Justices, includiung members of the majority that overturned Roe v Wade thus leading to "the new Georgia law."

    Though perhaps you missed THAT news flash?
    It's s heartbreaking story. A woman - a mother of a young kid - dying in hospital because medics are scared of the legal consequences of saving her life. Maybe it's Georgia Republicans we should blame, but that's still a problem for the Republican Party. And Trump enabled this.

    My wife's a doctor so I tend to also see thing from the doctor's point of view. It's hard to imagine what it must be like to be the physician responsible in this situation. How can anyone work as a doctor under these conditions?
    Reading the article it seems as she was in an advanced stage of septic shock when she presented. Not ideal conditions for surgery under General Anaesthesia. It would have been touch and go even with more timely surgery.

    What a tragic waste of life. We will see more.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,892
    Eabhal said:

    There are going to be an awful lot of small electronic and white goods getting chucked out in Lebanon tomorrow.

    What's that ticking noise come from the fridge?

    It's turkey isn't it?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,180

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    What did you think of 'Micro Men', the BBC TV version of these events?

    Seems not be on iPlayer.
    It's on YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBxV6-zamM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fvssv7_Zto
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Mossad has spent 70 years admitting to nothing.

    This takeout happened in the sandpit 15 years ago, and upset a lot of Israel’s Western allies. All of the stolen identies had Israeli visas, at least 29 of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Mabhouh
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,874
    edited September 17
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    What did you think of 'Micro Men', the BBC TV version of these events?

    Seems not be on iPlayer.
    Is that the one with Alexander Armstrong as Clive Sinclair ?
    Yes
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 543
    Foxy said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    Harris is highlighting this story and blaming Trump:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.

    She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.

    But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.

    Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.

    It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.

    The otherwise healthy 28-year-old medical assistant, who had her sights set on nursing school, should not have died, an official state committee recently concluded.

    Not sure that Trump has ever had the power to pass laws in Georgia.
    Trump DID have the power to appoint US Supreme Court Justices, includiung members of the majority that overturned Roe v Wade thus leading to "the new Georgia law."

    Though perhaps you missed THAT news flash?
    It's s heartbreaking story. A woman - a mother of a young kid - dying in hospital because medics are scared of the legal consequences of saving her life. Maybe it's Georgia Republicans we should blame, but that's still a problem for the Republican Party. And Trump enabled this.

    My wife's a doctor so I tend to also see thing from the doctor's point of view. It's hard to imagine what it must be like to be the physician responsible in this situation. How can anyone work as a doctor under these conditions?
    Reading the article it seems as she was in an advanced stage of septic shock when she presented. Not ideal conditions for surgery under General Anaesthesia. It would have been touch and go even with more timely surgery.

    What a tragic waste of life. We will see more.
    Similar to the case of the woman who died in Ireland from septicaemia when she had a partial miscarriage and the doctors wouldn't reform an abortion.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,912
    So... putting my tinfoil hat on, the death of the Telegraph's David Knowles is looking even more suspicious...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,912
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    What did you think of 'Micro Men', the BBC TV version of these events?

    Seems not be on iPlayer.
    It's on YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBxV6-zamM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fvssv7_Zto
    Oddly enough, a depiction of the warehouse I mentioned earlier is shown at the end of that...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,290

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Is it distorted? The A in ARM originally stood for Acorn.
    It's distorted in that ARM's success is not really patent related. One can - if one wants - use open source ARM compatible designs and not pay ARM a penny; it's just that ARM charges very little, and its designs are better than OpenCore's implementation.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,931
    Scott_xP said:

    eek said:

    I think this just shows how dire the Tory party is - someone who cares more about Copyright infringement than children...

    He doesn't care about copyright infringement.

    He cares about performative cruelty
    Exactly. Any normal party would have dropped him. The Tories think he should be leader.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,290

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Is it distorted? The A in ARM originally stood for Acorn.
    I never knew that... ;)
    I do remember as a young teenager using Archimedes computers at school, and then seeing about five years later windows for workgroups on my open day to university and wondering why it was so slow and ugly to look at ...
    RISC OS as used by the Archimedes (not Arthur, the original 1987 stopgap OS introduced when the US team failed us...) was a great OS, with some usability features that are still not common in many other OSs.

    I've so many happy memories of working on that near the company's end (sobs...)
    Didn't it rely on cooperative multitasking, which meant one errant process could take down the whole machine?

    Zarch, on the other hand, was one of the greatest games of all time.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646

    So... putting my tinfoil hat on, the death of the Telegraph's David Knowles is looking even more suspicious...

    I’d want to see a proper UK autopsy and toxicology report. Was there an underlying heart condition (which happens), or did he take something that induced a heart attack?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,290

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Perhaps. Acorn were not brilliant wrt patents IMV, even before my time. It wasn't in the culture to create patents, compared to (say) Qualcomm or Apple.

    We just liked inventing cool stuff.

    British tech summed up in one post... :(
    But ARM is the foundation of almost almost all portable devices isnt it? Even Apple's incredible M4 is a chuffed up ARM concepted processor..
    Yep. And ARM fluked into its position as a world leader - though Robin Saxby was the perfect person to position the new company in exactly the right place. No-one at Acorn - I think not even Sophie Wilson - expected it to be such a success. It was designed to be cheap and low power (*), and in 1984/5/6 no-one really knew that cheap, low-power processors would take over the world within a couple of decades.

    sadly, ARM's success killed Acorn. The ARM shares held by Acorn were worth far more than Acorn itself, so we were essentially asset-stripped and broken up. I can't complain too much, as I made a fair amount of money out of it, but I wish it had kept going.

    But it needed better management at the top, and loads of investment.

    (*) Acorn didn't need it to be low-power, but if it was low-power it could be made much cheaper. And cost mattered.
    I knew Sophie when she was still Roger :smile:
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,658
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Is it distorted? The A in ARM originally stood for Acorn.
    I never knew that... ;)
    I do remember as a young teenager using Archimedes computers at school, and then seeing about five years later windows for workgroups on my open day to university and wondering why it was so slow and ugly to look at ...
    RISC OS as used by the Archimedes (not Arthur, the original 1987 stopgap OS introduced when the US team failed us...) was a great OS, with some usability features that are still not common in many other OSs.

    I've so many happy memories of working on that near the company's end (sobs...)
    Didn't it rely on cooperative multitasking, which meant one errant process could take down the whole machine?

    Zarch, on the other hand, was one of the greatest games of all time.
    And an unprotected zero page. The following BBC BASIC phrase, typed at the prompt, would zero out the software-interrupt vector:

    !8=0

    End of session...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,613
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    Au contraire, I imagine Mossad will be super keen to own this one. Because

    1. It is genuinely brilliant and daring and forensic - the opposite of the Gaza horrorshow. This is the old Israel we admire. The Israel of Entebbe and Stuxnet

    And

    2. It will terrify the shit out of everyone in Tehran and Hamas and Hezbollah. They now cannot trust any electronic equipment
    Both sides in the Russia-Ukraine war are working towards autonomous drones, programmed with AI targeting. The aim is to have a drone that can complete its mission even if the communication signal to its base station is jammed.

    If you are worried about your adversary hacking your electronics, you would be nervous about trusting your drones to be autonomous.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:

    In more Trafalgar fun, the bow-tied one has Trump ahead in Georgia by less than 2 points. I think last time out, or maybe 2016, he overstated Trump across the board by 4

    https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/GA-24-General-0916_Report.pdf

    I don't believe that Trafalgar actually performs polls, so I would pay no attention. My gut is that he is putting out Dem favourable ones now, so that later he can spin the narrative of a Trump surge.
    But HYUFD told me…
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,927
    Evening all :)

    Given he is the favourite (but a long way from the winner), I wonder how Jenrick is going to use his Conference speech. Is he going to continue to electioneer (plenty of knockabout at the expense of Labour and the LDs but more circumspect vs Reform) or is he going to give a clearer indication of the kind of Conservative Party he would lead?

    What is his vision - how does he see a Conservative-run Britain in the 2030s?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,264
    edited September 17
    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    They appear to have taken the FBI playbook of Anom scheme of selling secure messaging phones with god mode to the worlds criminals and put that on steriods.

    https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/23/24163389/joseph-cox-dark-wire-fbi-phone-startup-anom-criminals-secure-messaging-decoder-interview
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,290
    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    I think you're being a bit generous.

    If Carlson had him on the show, and had peppered him with difficult questions, and held his views up to scrutiny, it would be one thing.

    But he didn't. On the contrary he introduced him as one on the greatest American historians, and didn't push back against Cooper's claim that millions of deaths in concentration camps were due to the Nazis being "unprepared" for war, rather than a deliberate genocidal plan against Jews. Nor did Tucker really question Cooper's portrayal of Winston Churchill as the "chief villain" of World War II.

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    Hosting a holocaust denier, Tucker Carlson said "Darryl Cooper may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States. His latest project is the most forbidden of all: trying to understand World War Two.”
    https://www.mediamatters.org/tucker-carlson/tucker-carlson-pushing-nazi-apologias-and-holocaust-denial-he-addressed-rnc-just
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,694
    edited September 17

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    They appear to have taken the FBI playbook of Anom scheme of selling secure messaging phones with god mode to the worlds criminals and put that on steriods.

    https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/23/24163389/joseph-cox-dark-wire-fbi-phone-startup-anom-criminals-secure-messaging-decoder-interview
    One assumes that getting all tinfoil hat about Huawei network equipment means that Cisco are 100% compromised*.

    *On request
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,912
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Hundreds of Hezbollah fighters are wounded when their pagers explode
    Hezbollah said the incident is the largest intelligence breach in group's history"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13860239/Hundreds-Hezbollah-fighters-wounded-PAGERS-explode.html

    “The shocking incident…”, starts the second paragraph of that article.

    You might say so.
    I'm interested in how that was done.

    Were the pagers infiltrated with explosives somehow, or is there a sequence of whatever that can make a pager explode? That it was simultaneous suggests the former to me - probably.

    For a comparison, when Stuxnet was used to wreck the Iranian uranium enrichment facility it caused the centrifuges to run in a way which burned them out.
    I'd imagine there would be something you could do if you could override the firmware, to overload the batteries and burn them out that way.

    I'd be very surprised if Mossad was going to the trouble of infiltrating Hezbollah to put tiny amounts of explosives into all their pagers.
    That’s exactly how you’d do it, a firmware update that allows an overheat shutdown to be inhibited, followed by a software update that results in a whole load of exploding batteries.
    Would the batteries explode, or would they just catch fire? I suppose it depends on whether they have a hard case.

    I was assuming the supply chain had been infiltrated. If they all got a message first (as reported) I'd be surprised if you could make a battery explode that quickly. Be a bit mad to have no fuse, too.
    Lithium batteries are self-sustaining in combustion, once they start to overheat the only thing you can do with them is put them in a bucket of water to cool them down.
    Yes. I always charge lithium drone batteries in a metal case. But you get a fire if it goes wrong rather than an explosion.

    If you put them in a hard case then the gas can cause it to fail in a more sudden manner but most times it would just result in a puffy case and eventually a hot pffft rather than an explosion.

    I suspect these are 'special edition' pagers made to order...
    Back in the 1980s, Acorn had a problem when a Master 128 computer spontaneously combusted in a hospital (*). The problem was traced to the rechargeable CMOS battery inside it, but no-one could work out *why* it had happened. All they knew was that the computer had been left on for a very long time.

    Eventually, after many months, they reproduced it. Except again, all they were left with was a burnt-out computer. I can't remember the details, but they set up another test with more instrumentation.

    It turned out two tracks on a PCB were slightly too close together, meaning that if the computer was on for too long (as in months), the battery would sort-circuit. A simple redesign and the problem was fixed. It must have been an early example of the problems that can be caused by rechargeable batteries. And it proved very expensive for the company.

    (All from memory; an acquaintance's first job out of uni was tracking this little bugger of a fault down.)

    (*) For a time I actually had that very computer, badly melted, in my possession...
    IIRC arent acorn more or less the source of the most valuable (or one of the most valuable) patents on the planet?
    Not that I know... Any details? That's intriguing.

    We did 'own' (from memory) an allocation of a lot of the IP address space, which was extremely valuable at one point. Until they were not...
    Sounds like a distorted version of the ARM story.
    Is it distorted? The A in ARM originally stood for Acorn.
    I never knew that... ;)
    I do remember as a young teenager using Archimedes computers at school, and then seeing about five years later windows for workgroups on my open day to university and wondering why it was so slow and ugly to look at ...
    RISC OS as used by the Archimedes (not Arthur, the original 1987 stopgap OS introduced when the US team failed us...) was a great OS, with some usability features that are still not common in many other OSs.

    I've so many happy memories of working on that near the company's end (sobs...)
    Didn't it rely on cooperative multitasking, which meant one errant process could take down the whole machine?

    Zarch, on the other hand, was one of the greatest games of all time.
    Yep, RISC OS was co-operative multitasking. There was a plan to make it preemptive, but the top management were never interested. Someone came up with a rather clever way that the existing API could be made to work with a new ?scheduler? . It would have involved having the kernel rewritten in C from asm, but that would also have fixed the 26-bit to 32-bit work that was required.

    It may have been co-operative, but what it did, it did very very well.

    And here's the thing. De management said that no-one would buy RISC OS because it was co-operative. Yet (from memory...) Macs only got preemptive with OS X in 2001...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,874
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Their letting Vance out again.

    Should be a wild one...


    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    3m
    So Trump is featured in a “Fighting Anti-Semitism” event with Miriam Adelson in D.C. on Thursday, September 19. Two days later, his running mate, JD Vance, is to appear in PA with Tucker Carlson, a leading promoter of Holocaust denial. Perhaps Trump should order Vance not to go?

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1836070727079878883

    Tucker Carlson is not a Holocaust denier, nor a “promotor of Holocaust denial”

    He’s a journalist who has interviewed people with all sorts of viewpoints, some of them rather fringe. That isn’t the same.
    I think you're being a bit generous.

    If Carlson had him on the show, and had peppered him with difficult questions, and held his views up to scrutiny, it would be one thing.

    But he didn't. On the contrary he introduced him as one on the greatest American historians, and didn't push back against Cooper's claim that millions of deaths in concentration camps were due to the Nazis being "unprepared" for war, rather than a deliberate genocidal plan against Jews. Nor did Tucker really question Cooper's portrayal of Winston Churchill as the "chief villain" of World War II.

    Like Wannsee conference never happened.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,874
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Given he is the favourite (but a long way from the winner), I wonder how Jenrick is going to use his Conference speech. Is he going to continue to electioneer (plenty of knockabout at the expense of Labour and the LDs but more circumspect vs Reform) or is he going to give a clearer indication of the kind of Conservative Party he would lead?

    What is his vision - how does he see a Conservative-run Britain in the 2030s?

    I suspect he'll rant at length about rubber dignies.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, looking at MSM videos of these exploding pagers, they were small bombs not battery fires.

    Wow, that’s a proper well done to Mossad, not that they’ll be admitting anything anytime soon.

    They appear to have taken the FBI playbook of Anom scheme of selling secure messaging phones with god mode to the worlds criminals and put that on steriods.

    https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/23/24163389/joseph-cox-dark-wire-fbi-phone-startup-anom-criminals-secure-messaging-decoder-interview
    One assumes that getting all tinfoil hat about Huawei network equipment means that Cisco are 100% compromised*.

    *On request
    They've intercepted them in transit before*.

    *Tho this could be cover for a general back door.
This discussion has been closed.