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The latest Tory leadership betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,179
edited August 26 in General
imageThe latest Tory leadership betting – politicalbetting.com

In exactly a fortnight Tory MPs start voting in this election under the exhaustive ballot voting system which can be described as quasi-AV.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754
    edited August 21
    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581
    JENRICK
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581
    Tommy The Tug and James Fairly Brightly seem the only sensible choices.

    Kemi: boring, cowardly, crap
    Patel: dim
    Jenrick: LOL
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    Donald Duck chickens out of another interview.

    ..."The Trump campaign had initially agreed that Trump would participate in an interview with The Detroit News. But after the newspaper began asking about the Michigan crime data ... the presidential candidate no longer had time for an interview."..

    Trump returns to Michigan to talk crime, but data shows rates dropped after he left office
    https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2024/08/20/donald-trump-howell-michigan-crime-campaign-speech-kamala-harris-illegal-immigration/74844154007/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930
    People still care about this? Quaint.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754
    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,607

    Tommy The Tug and James Fairly Brightly seem the only sensible choices.

    Kemi: boring, cowardly, crap
    Patel: dim
    Jenrick: LOL

    What do you think of Stride?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581

    Tommy The Tug and James Fairly Brightly seem the only sensible choices.

    Kemi: boring, cowardly, crap
    Patel: dim
    Jenrick: LOL

    What do you think of Stride?
    Who?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754

    Tommy The Tug and James Fairly Brightly seem the only sensible choices.

    Kemi: boring, cowardly, crap
    Patel: dim
    Jenrick: LOL

    I see Mel needs to take strides to get your attention.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,607

    Tommy The Tug and James Fairly Brightly seem the only sensible choices.

    Kemi: boring, cowardly, crap
    Patel: dim
    Jenrick: LOL

    What do you think of Stride?
    Who?
    I think they're a Tory MP in Devon. Standing for the leadership.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    So, when you're being canvassed they all want you to vote for someone else?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    An occupational hazard of being sane
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581

    Tommy The Tug and James Fairly Brightly seem the only sensible choices.

    Kemi: boring, cowardly, crap
    Patel: dim
    Jenrick: LOL

    What do you think of Stride?
    Who?
    I think they're a Tory MP in Devon. Standing for the leadership.
    Are ‘they’ non binary/gender neutral + ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    So, when you're being canvassed they all want you to vote for someone else?
    Yes, if it is between Jenrick and Tugendhat then I am voting for Jenrick.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581

    Tommy The Tug and James Fairly Brightly seem the only sensible choices.

    Kemi: boring, cowardly, crap
    Patel: dim
    Jenrick: LOL

    I see Mel needs to take strides to get your attention.
    Who?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,007
    edited August 21

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    Pity you aren't in Scotland as well.

    Seriously, worth remembering there is a leadership contest in the Scons as well. No idea who will win.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    edited August 21

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    So, when you're being canvassed they all want you to vote for someone else?
    Yes, if it is between Jenrick and Tugendhat then I am voting for Jenrick.
    But Jenrick is a ****! Why not Tugs?

    Edit. Ah, I have read upthread- good idea!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    So, when you're being canvassed they all want you to vote for someone else?
    Yes, if it is between Jenrick and Tugendhat then I am voting for Jenrick.
    But Jenrick is a ****! Why not Tugs?
    Because, consistent with his record, he wants Jenrick to lose, obvs.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    So, when you're being canvassed they all want you to vote for someone else?
    Yes, if it is between Jenrick and Tugendhat then I am voting for Jenrick.
    But Jenrick is a ****! Why not Tugs?
    Because, consistent with his record, he wants Jenrick to lose, obvs.
    I should have read up thread before responding with alarm.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,007
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    Pity you aren't in Scotland as well.

    Seriously, worth remembering there is a leadership contest in the Scons as well. No idea who will win.
    On which: Mr Ross at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe, but not (I think) the comedy section:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8756g46j1o
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,607

    Tommy The Tug and James Fairly Brightly seem the only sensible choices.

    Kemi: boring, cowardly, crap
    Patel: dim
    Jenrick: LOL

    What do you think of Stride?
    Who?
    I think they're a Tory MP in Devon. Standing for the leadership.
    Are ‘they’ non binary/gender neutral + ?
    I felt that being indeterminate about their gender was the best way to play along with your affected ignorance.

    I find myself often using the singular they instead of he/she. Not for any conscious reason. Perhaps it's a cognitive shortcut when I'm tired.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754
    Two bodies recovered from the wreckage of the sunken Bayesian yacht have been confirmed as those of Mike Lynch and his daughter Hannah.

    Sicily civil protection chief Salvo Cocina told The Telegraph that two other bodies have been found and are now being recovered by divers.

    Mr Cocina added: “On behalf of myself and my colleagues, I would like to express my deepest sympathy to the families of the victims and express our condolences to them at this difficult time”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/21/bayesian-superyacht-sicily-sinking-missing-mike-lynch/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    So, when you're being canvassed they all want you to vote for someone else?
    Yes, if it is between Jenrick and Tugendhat then I am voting for Jenrick.
    But Jenrick is a ****! Why not Tugs?
    Because, consistent with his record, he wants Jenrick to lose, obvs.
    I should have read up thread before responding with alarm.
    Any gambler surely knows that the highly unlikely is going to happen now and again. The skill is knowing when.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    Pity you aren't in Scotland as well.

    Seriously, worth remembering there is a leadership contest in the Scons as well. No idea who will win.
    The SCon leadership election is an utter motorhome clown car.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832
    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,515
    Nigelb said:

    Donald Duck chickens out of another interview.

    ..."The Trump campaign had initially agreed that Trump would participate in an interview with The Detroit News. But after the newspaper began asking about the Michigan crime data ... the presidential candidate no longer had time for an interview."..

    Trump returns to Michigan to talk crime, but data shows rates dropped after he left office
    https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2024/08/20/donald-trump-howell-michigan-crime-campaign-speech-kamala-harris-illegal-immigration/74844154007/

    There was a bit of spike in crime just around the time he left office - but that was mostly in DC.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525

    Two bodies recovered from the wreckage of the sunken Bayesian yacht have been confirmed as those of Mike Lynch and his daughter Hannah.

    Sicily civil protection chief Salvo Cocina told The Telegraph that two other bodies have been found and are now being recovered by divers.

    Mr Cocina added: “On behalf of myself and my colleagues, I would like to express my deepest sympathy to the families of the victims and express our condolences to them at this difficult time”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08/21/bayesian-superyacht-sicily-sinking-missing-mike-lynch/

    I’m sure we all agree with Mr Cocina.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,515

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    If they hired KPMG as well, I call "House"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    Wow, he's still catching up on Monday night.
    https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1826233108775256144

    Wait till he gets around to watching Obama's speech.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449
    ...

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    So what does your boy Jezza plan to do with failed asylum seekers if not deportation?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,389
    edited August 21

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,234

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even loger, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    Lol @ the name "Grabiner".

    At a certain level I swear silks start inventing stuff out of whole cloth, and because of their reputation someone might take a punt on it - see Pannick's ridiculous private school stuff.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The whole PO business gets worse and worse.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930
    I can't be arsed looking to see who described the Sri Lankan batting order having a tail like Diplodocus but it is definitely up there with some of the worst cricketing assessments published on this site. I am quite jealous.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,607
    DavidL said:

    I can't be arsed looking to see who described the Sri Lankan batting order having a tail like Diplodocus but it is definitely up there with some of the worst cricketing assessments published on this site. I am quite jealous.

    Are you sure that they didn't invert their batting order?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525
    DavidL said:

    I can't be arsed looking to see who described the Sri Lankan batting order having a tail like Diplodocus but it is definitely up there with some of the worst cricketing assessments published on this site. I am quite jealous.

    Deleted
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    DavidL said:

    I can't be arsed looking to see who described the Sri Lankan batting order having a tail like Diplodocus but it is definitely up there with some of the worst cricketing assessments published on this site. I am quite jealous.

    Wasn't it ydoethur talking about England ?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,889

    Tommy The Tug and James Fairly Brightly seem the only sensible choices.

    Kemi: boring, cowardly, crap
    Patel: dim
    Jenrick: LOL

    What do you think of Stride?
    Who?
    I think they're a Tory MP in Devon. Standing for the leadership.
    Are ‘they’ non binary/gender neutral + ?
    What's wrong with it's?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930

    DavidL said:

    I can't be arsed looking to see who described the Sri Lankan batting order having a tail like Diplodocus but it is definitely up there with some of the worst cricketing assessments published on this site. I am quite jealous.

    Are you sure that they didn't invert their batting order?
    I'm beginning to wonder if they might fancy declaring at some point and have a go at England's openers tonight.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,234
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't be arsed looking to see who described the Sri Lankan batting order having a tail like Diplodocus but it is definitely up there with some of the worst cricketing assessments published on this site. I am quite jealous.

    Are you sure that they didn't invert their batting order?
    I'm beginning to wonder if they might fancy declaring at some point and have a go at England's openers tonight.
    I'd be surprised if they survived the day with apparently 34 overs remaining.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,389

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    Common sense would have told you that the recusal application had no chance, yet he virtually instructed the PO to go ahead with it. It turns out that he didn't even read the Common Issues (Horizon) judgement, but relied instead on comments from another distinguished barrister, Lord Neuberger, who was equally myopic on this subject.

    These are obviously not stupid men, so what were they up to?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,234

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    Common sense would have told you that the recusal application had no chance, yet he virtually instructed the PO to go ahead with it. It turns out that he didn't even read the Common Issues (Horizon) judgement, but relied instead on comments from another distinguished barrister, Lord Neuberger, who was equally myopic on this subject.

    These are obviously not stupid men, so what were they up to?
    Trousering cash.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056
    Pulpstar said:

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even loger, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    Lol @ the name "Grabiner".

    At a certain level I swear silks start inventing stuff out of whole cloth, and because of their reputation someone might take a punt on it - see Pannick's ridiculous private school stuff.
    Lord Pannick & Mike Lynch RIP went to the same school.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    edited August 21
    Are these numbers trying to tell us that Trump might drop out?

    Trump 2.04
    Harris 2.1

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.176878927
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056

    Tommy The Tug and James Fairly Brightly seem the only sensible choices.

    Kemi: boring, cowardly, crap
    Patel: dim
    Jenrick: LOL

    I see Mel needs to take strides to get your attention.
    Who?
    Mel Stride is the chap TSE left off the graph in the header while he hoovers up all the 66/1 about the no-hoper.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    Microplastics are infiltrating brain tissue, studies show: ‘There’s nowhere left untouched’
    Twenty-four brain samples collected in early 2024 measured on average about 0.5% plastic by weight
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/aug/21/microplastics-brain-pollution-health
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,234
    Andy_JS said:

    Are these numbers trying to tell us that Trump might drop out?

    Trump 2.04
    Harris 2.1

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.176878927

    No, how do you work that out ?

    Isn't it more to do with RFK's musings that he might endorse Trump ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056
    Robert Jenrick has revealed he used Ozempic for a short period to help lose weight
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/29972371/tory-leadership-candidate-reveals-used-ozempic/
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,389
    Pulpstar said:

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    Common sense would have told you that the recusal application had no chance, yet he virtually instructed the PO to go ahead with it. It turns out that he didn't even read the Common Issues (Horizon) judgement, but relied instead on comments from another distinguished barrister, Lord Neuberger, who was equally myopic on this subject.

    These are obviously not stupid men, so what were they up to?
    Trousering cash.
    Their reputations must be regarded as seriously tarnished by their plainly incorrect advice to the PO. I take it they are not short of money. So why do it?

    Politics?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525
    Sri Lanka bring up 200 with a 6. Well done Rathnayaka.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,375
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    Pity you aren't in Scotland as well.

    Seriously, worth remembering there is a leadership contest in the Scons as well. No idea who will win.
    4 donkeys and a Mason Boyne wannabe, no-one is in the least interested in which loser will be chosen Carnyx.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,375

    Robert Jenrick has revealed he used Ozempic for a short period to help lose weight
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/29972371/tory-leadership-candidate-reveals-used-ozempic/

    Pass out the silk hankies my eyes have welled up at such drama, what fun a Tory leadership race brings.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,234

    Pulpstar said:

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    Common sense would have told you that the recusal application had no chance, yet he virtually instructed the PO to go ahead with it. It turns out that he didn't even read the Common Issues (Horizon) judgement, but relied instead on comments from another distinguished barrister, Lord Neuberger, who was equally myopic on this subject.

    These are obviously not stupid men, so what were they up to?
    Trousering cash.
    Their reputations must be regarded as seriously tarnished by their plainly incorrect advice to the PO. I take it they are not short of money. So why do it?

    Politics?
    If work's coming your way whatever you say - and given the state of the PO why wouldn't it - Why bother checking anything :) - you can spend your actual time preparing for Liverpool FC's cases.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646

    Sri Lanka bring up 200 with a 6. Well done Rathnayaka.

    Did they not get the message that most teams play their best batsmen first, and their poor batsmen last?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525
    malcolmg said:

    Robert Jenrick has revealed he used Ozempic for a short period to help lose weight
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/29972371/tory-leadership-candidate-reveals-used-ozempic/

    Pass out the silk hankies my eyes have welled up at such drama, what fun a Tory leadership race brings.
    Question is Malc, did the stuff work? Or is it another case of a Tory wasting money?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056
    A classic piece of Tory truth-twisting here from Jacob Rees-Mogg.
    The moral of the story? It's good to talk.

    https://x.com/RMTunion/status/1826190060410028465

    RMT posts 1-minute video in TwiX above.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,234
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    I can't be arsed looking to see who described the Sri Lankan batting order having a tail like Diplodocus but it is definitely up there with some of the worst cricketing assessments published on this site. I am quite jealous.

    Are you sure that they didn't invert their batting order?
    I'm beginning to wonder if they might fancy declaring at some point and have a go at England's openers tonight.
    If you plot the scores on a scatter chart, it does look a bit like a Diplodocus. Mendis is the head, de Silva the body and Rathnayake the tail.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,375

    malcolmg said:

    Robert Jenrick has revealed he used Ozempic for a short period to help lose weight
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/29972371/tory-leadership-candidate-reveals-used-ozempic/

    Pass out the silk hankies my eyes have welled up at such drama, what fun a Tory leadership race brings.
    Question is Malc, did the stuff work? Or is it another case of a Tory wasting money?
    OKC they are inveterate troughers so will be back on shortly , especially if he gets to be chief piggy
  • Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    257 million quid in legal fees to defend/ justify that shower of shit.
    Lawyers. About as popular as haemorrhoids.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,701

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
  • Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    No wonder the country is fecked.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,389
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    Common sense would have told you that the recusal application had no chance, yet he virtually instructed the PO to go ahead with it. It turns out that he didn't even read the Common Issues (Horizon) judgement, but relied instead on comments from another distinguished barrister, Lord Neuberger, who was equally myopic on this subject.

    These are obviously not stupid men, so what were they up to?
    Trousering cash.
    Their reputations must be regarded as seriously tarnished by their plainly incorrect advice to the PO. I take it they are not short of money. So why do it?

    Politics?
    If work's coming your way whatever you say - and given the state of the PO why wouldn't it - Why bother checking anything :) - you can spend your actual time preparing for Liverpool FC's cases.
    He was shameless at the Inquiry. It was obvious that the possibilty of miscarriages of justice was the last thing on the mind of this deeply unpleasant man.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,007

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    People still care about this? Quaint.

    This will be the fifth Tory leadership election I will be voting in, apart from Dave (pbuh), my vote has gone to the losing candidate.
    Pity you aren't in Scotland as well.

    Seriously, worth remembering there is a leadership contest in the Scons as well. No idea who will win.
    The SCon leadership election is an utter motorhome clown car.
    ISTR that one of them is being backed by a faction which wants to reimpose direct rule and abolish Holyrood, but can't find the reference on checking.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,074
    This is what I'd call a bad day at the office for his fellow war criminals:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/08/21/watch-russian-soldier-blows-up-base-defecting-ukraine/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,234

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    257 million quid in legal fees to defend/ justify that shower of shit.
    Lawyers. About as popular as haemorrhoids.
    Most people and businesses use lawyers as little as possible when either
    a) They absolutely have to OR
    b) Commercially it's necessary.

    When it's the public's money and arse covering is the order of the day though there's absolutely no incentive to try and reign the bill in.
    See also the covid enquiry.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754
    edited August 21

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    No wonder the country is fecked.
    So when the Lord Grabiner came to visit some clients in Manchester from London on the train they paid for the travel time, so it cost them circa £18,000 in travel time alone.

    He was worth every penny.
  • Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    No wonder the country is fecked.
    So when the Lord Grabiner came to visit some clients in Manchester from London on the train they paid for the travel time, so it cost them circa £18,000 in travel time alone.

    He was worth every penny.
    You seem so proud of them. I bet you even call him "Lord".
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754

    Pulpstar said:

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    Common sense would have told you that the recusal application had no chance, yet he virtually instructed the PO to go ahead with it. It turns out that he didn't even read the Common Issues (Horizon) judgement, but relied instead on comments from another distinguished barrister, Lord Neuberger, who was equally myopic on this subject.

    These are obviously not stupid men, so what were they up to?
    Trousering cash.
    Their reputations must be regarded as seriously tarnished by their plainly incorrect advice to the PO. I take it they are not short of money. So why do it?

    Politics?
    Cab rank rule applies for these barristers.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,607
    Pulpstar said:

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    257 million quid in legal fees to defend/ justify that shower of shit.
    Lawyers. About as popular as haemorrhoids.
    Most people and businesses use lawyers as little as possible when either
    a) They absolutely have to OR
    b) Commercially it's necessary.

    When it's the public's money and arse covering is the order of the day though there's absolutely no incentive to try and reign the bill in.
    See also the covid enquiry.
    It's events like this that make me want to bring back Bills of Attainder for those responsible for such a willful misuse of public funds
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
    SKS is a master of deception. His crackdown on rioters looks like a declaration of lefty inclusiveness. In fact it's a message to Calais: Look, we got these seriously bad hombres here, so bad we have to jail the ones we catch for five years. You sure you wouldn't be better trying somewhere else?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581

    Tommy The Tug and James Fairly Brightly seem the only sensible choices.

    Kemi: boring, cowardly, crap
    Patel: dim
    Jenrick: LOL

    What do you think of Stride?
    Who?
    I think they're a Tory MP in Devon. Standing for the leadership.
    Are ‘they’ non binary/gender neutral + ?
    I felt that being indeterminate about their gender was the best way to play along with your affected ignorance.

    I find myself often using the singular they instead of he/she. Not for any conscious reason. Perhaps it's a cognitive shortcut when I'm tired.
    I find it sounds really weird.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,176
    Nigelb said:

    Microplastics are infiltrating brain tissue, studies show: ‘There’s nowhere left untouched’
    Twenty-four brain samples collected in early 2024 measured on average about 0.5% plastic by weight
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/aug/21/microplastics-brain-pollution-health

    A brain is about 1,300-1,400 g. 0.5% of that is 6-7g. About the weight of a two pence piece.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,007

    Pulpstar said:

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    257 million quid in legal fees to defend/ justify that shower of shit.
    Lawyers. About as popular as haemorrhoids.
    Most people and businesses use lawyers as little as possible when either
    a) They absolutely have to OR
    b) Commercially it's necessary.

    When it's the public's money and arse covering is the order of the day though there's absolutely no incentive to try and reign the bill in.
    See also the covid enquiry.
    It's events like this that make me want to bring back Bills of Attainder for those responsible for such a willful misuse of public funds
    Vide Westminster (Borough of), gerrymandering in.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,234
    Might be some trolling going on on this thread ;p
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    No wonder the country is fecked.
    So when the Lord Grabiner came to visit some clients in Manchester from London on the train they paid for the travel time, so it cost them circa £18,000 in travel time alone.

    He was worth every penny.
    You seem so proud of them. I bet you even call him "Lord".
    No, I called him your Lordship.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,927

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
    I didn't vote Labour even here in the fortress of East Ham, yet I'm still curious.

    Your longstanding antipathy to Starmer notwithstanding, what would your immigration policy be? Open door? Skills based? Should those who are here illegally be allowed to stay ? What shoulkd we do whose cases for asylum are pending? It's easy to be critical but I'm much more interested in hearing what alternative policy you would support.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,754
    Pulpstar said:

    Might be some trolling going on on this thread ;p

    I was accused of trolling with this thread.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/07/04/history-suggests-lawyer-starmer-was-always-going-to-win-this-election/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,007
    Pulpstar said:

    Might be some trolling going on on this thread ;p

    People being wound up like an old Meccano clockwork motor? Yep, just about within the bounds of evidential possibility.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,701
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
    I didn't vote Labour even here in the fortress of East Ham, yet I'm still curious.

    Your longstanding antipathy to Starmer notwithstanding, what would your immigration policy be? Open door? Skills based? Should those who are here illegally be allowed to stay ? What shoulkd we do whose cases for asylum are pending? It's easy to be critical but I'm much more interested in hearing what alternative policy you would support.
    I think it's very simple. If SKS is for it, @bigjohnowls is against it.
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
    I didn't vote Labour even here in the fortress of East Ham, yet I'm still curious.

    Your longstanding antipathy to Starmer notwithstanding, what would your immigration policy be? Open door? Skills based? Should those who are here illegally be allowed to stay ? What shoulkd we do whose cases for asylum are pending? It's easy to be critical but I'm much more interested in hearing what alternative policy you would support.
    I think it's very simple. If SKS is for it, @bigjohnowls is against it.
    SKS is both for it and against it depending on where the votes are, and has no principles on the matter.

    I am a Socialist who has consistent principles
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,474
    DavidL said:

    I can't be arsed looking to see who described the Sri Lankan batting order having a tail like Diplodocus but it is definitely up there with some of the worst cricketing assessments published on this site. I am quite jealous.

    1) It was me;
    2) I was talking about England;
    3) No assessment will ever better my questioning Alistair Cook's reasoning in putting the Aussies in at Trent Bridge 2015.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056
    Alastair Breaks Down "Unhinged" Project 2025
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU75265wXzA

    Donald Trump is trying to distance himself from Project 2025. 900 pages with no index. Not quite as off the wall as AC feared but anti-woke and anti-abortion.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,927
    As I don't have a vote or say in the Conservative leadership contest, my opinion is at best of academic interest (and probably not even that in all honesty).

    How will the six candidates seek to distance themselves from the Government of which they were all members (and indeed Cabinet Ministers) at some point between 2010 and 2024? It was interesting Sunak's first comment on the day after the election was a mea culpa.

    It might be nice to hear a similar apology or expression of fault from any of the leadership contenders but I suspect I'll have a long wait.

    Stodge's Ninth Law of Politics states if you want to get elected you don't tell your electorate things they don't want to hear even (and especially) if it's the truth.

    That's going to be the problem - the MPs and membership won't want a damning indictment of 2010-24 (and especially 2019-24). They don't want to hear a litany of failure, of waste, of missed opportunities, of poor decisions and inept governance. They probably should hear it because that's what millions of ex-Conservative voters delivered on July 4th, whether they voted Labour, Reform, Liberal Democrat, Green or stayed at home.

    The presence of Reform should help but there's a fundamental question evolving - what's the point of the Conservatives?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,685

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
    I didn't vote Labour even here in the fortress of East Ham, yet I'm still curious.

    Your longstanding antipathy to Starmer notwithstanding, what would your immigration policy be? Open door? Skills based? Should those who are here illegally be allowed to stay ? What shoulkd we do whose cases for asylum are pending? It's easy to be critical but I'm much more interested in hearing what alternative policy you would support.
    I think it's very simple. If SKS is for it, @bigjohnowls is against it.
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
    I didn't vote Labour even here in the fortress of East Ham, yet I'm still curious.

    Your longstanding antipathy to Starmer notwithstanding, what would your immigration policy be? Open door? Skills based? Should those who are here illegally be allowed to stay ? What shoulkd we do whose cases for asylum are pending? It's easy to be critical but I'm much more interested in hearing what alternative policy you would support.
    I think it's very simple. If SKS is for it, @bigjohnowls is against it.
    SKS is both for it and against it depending on where the votes are, and has no principles on the matter.

    I am a Socialist who has consistent principles
    And yet support Boris 🤪
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,701
    stodge said:

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
    I didn't vote Labour even here in the fortress of East Ham, yet I'm still curious.

    Your longstanding antipathy to Starmer notwithstanding, what would your immigration policy be? Open door? Skills based? Should those who are here illegally be allowed to stay ? What shoulkd we do whose cases for asylum are pending? It's easy to be critical but I'm much more interested in hearing what alternative policy you would support.
    My policy would be we need more legal routes globally for those fleeing terror/ war. We should take our fair share of those

    Every Palestinian for example should be welcome like the Ukranian ones were even though SKS would never allow that because they are brown and his record of "Israel has the right" makes him complicit in their Genocide.

    Beyond that if we need immigrant Labour in certain sectors such as care we need to let sufficient people in for those purposes. So sort of skills based but without the stigma. Not open door but we should also welcome students who are great for our economy and the survival of large swathes of Universities.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,474
    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
    I didn't vote Labour even here in the fortress of East Ham, yet I'm still curious.

    Your longstanding antipathy to Starmer notwithstanding, what would your immigration policy be? Open door? Skills based? Should those who are here illegally be allowed to stay ? What shoulkd we do whose cases for asylum are pending? It's easy to be critical but I'm much more interested in hearing what alternative policy you would support.
    I think it's very simple. If SKS is for it, @bigjohnowls is against it.
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
    I didn't vote Labour even here in the fortress of East Ham, yet I'm still curious.

    Your longstanding antipathy to Starmer notwithstanding, what would your immigration policy be? Open door? Skills based? Should those who are here illegally be allowed to stay ? What shoulkd we do whose cases for asylum are pending? It's easy to be critical but I'm much more interested in hearing what alternative policy you would support.
    I think it's very simple. If SKS is for it, @bigjohnowls is against it.
    SKS is both for it and against it depending on where the votes are, and has no principles on the matter.

    I am a Socialist who has consistent principles
    And yet support Boris 🤪
    Supporting a fat drunken grifter who pays lip service to principles he doesn't believe in and only got where he is due to family connections counts like good socialism, tbh.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,701
    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
    I didn't vote Labour even here in the fortress of East Ham, yet I'm still curious.

    Your longstanding antipathy to Starmer notwithstanding, what would your immigration policy be? Open door? Skills based? Should those who are here illegally be allowed to stay ? What shoulkd we do whose cases for asylum are pending? It's easy to be critical but I'm much more interested in hearing what alternative policy you would support.
    I think it's very simple. If SKS is for it, @bigjohnowls is against it.
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    https://x.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1826267394421174769

    Earlier this month, the far right set fire to hotels housing asylum seekers.

    Today, the government announced a "major surge" in deportations and promised to re-open detention centres.

    The government could have stood up to the far right. Instead, it pandered to them.

    SKS racist Government may as well give their next presser next to some of the right wingers "Pakkis go home" placards instead of the usual Union flags.

    Immigration minister Seema Malhotra says the govt wants to deport the highest number of people since 2018.

    SKS fans you need to own what you voted for
    I didn't vote Labour even here in the fortress of East Ham, yet I'm still curious.

    Your longstanding antipathy to Starmer notwithstanding, what would your immigration policy be? Open door? Skills based? Should those who are here illegally be allowed to stay ? What shoulkd we do whose cases for asylum are pending? It's easy to be critical but I'm much more interested in hearing what alternative policy you would support.
    I think it's very simple. If SKS is for it, @bigjohnowls is against it.
    SKS is both for it and against it depending on where the votes are, and has no principles on the matter.

    I am a Socialist who has consistent principles
    And yet support Boris 🤪
    No supported leveling up in my local area as opposed to shutting down all those projects like Austerity (its my Political choice) Reeves
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,581
    edited August 21
    Andy_JS said:

    Are these numbers trying to tell us that Trump might drop out?

    Trump 2.04
    Harris 2.1

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.176878927

    Remember that @kinabalu and I both long ago predicted that neither Biden nor Trumpton would run... to much mockery on here...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209
    Stride and Tugendhat - irrelevant

    Cleverly, Badenoch and Patel - hopelessly flawed in different ways but each has one strong point compared with the others

    Jenrick is just bad. Bad for the country in the unlikely event a Conservative Party led by him gets into power. But bad I think for the Conservatives too. He is naturally the favourite to win.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832
    FF43 said:

    Stride and Tugendhat - irrelevant

    Cleverly, Badenoch and Patel - hopelessly flawed in different ways but each has one strong point compared with the others

    Jenrick is just bad. Bad for the country in the unlikely event a Conservative Party led by him gets into power. But bad I think for the Conservatives too. He is naturally the favourite to win.

    What are the respective strong points of Cleverly, Badenoch and Patel?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    Fishing said:

    This is what I'd call a bad day at the office for his fellow war criminals:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/08/21/watch-russian-soldier-blows-up-base-defecting-ukraine/

    Ouch! Well done that man, give him a Ukranian medal.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674

    Andy_JS said:

    Are these numbers trying to tell us that Trump might drop out?

    Trump 2.04
    Harris 2.1

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.176878927

    Remember that @kinabalu and I both long ago predicted that neither Biden nor Trumpton would run... to much mockery on here...
    I hope you've got a bet on it with high odds, just in case it does happen.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    No wonder the country is fecked.
    So when the Lord Grabiner came to visit some clients in Manchester from London on the train they paid for the travel time, so it cost them circa £18,000 in travel time alone.

    He was worth every penny.
    For £18k you could have hired him an helicopter.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,209

    FF43 said:

    Stride and Tugendhat - irrelevant

    Cleverly, Badenoch and Patel - hopelessly flawed in different ways but each has one strong point compared with the others

    Jenrick is just bad. Bad for the country in the unlikely event a Conservative Party led by him gets into power. But bad I think for the Conservatives too. He is naturally the favourite to win.

    What are the respective strong points of Cleverly, Badenoch and Patel?
    Cleverly - relatively normal person compared with the others. The safe choice when maybe they don't need a safe choice
    Badenoch - clever debater. Will challenge the Labour Party
    Patel - Willingness to face up to the problems with the party. What it actually needs right now.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,654
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Are these numbers trying to tell us that Trump might drop out?

    Trump 2.04
    Harris 2.1

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.176878927

    Remember that @kinabalu and I both long ago predicted that neither Biden nor Trumpton would run... to much mockery on here...
    I hope you've got a bet on it with high odds, just in case it does happen.
    I have bets on Vance and Haley at 220 and 260 just in case.

    I think the logic @Andy_JS is applying is that the odds of 2.04 and 2.1 imply a probability of 96.6% that either Trump or Harris will win, leaving a 3.6% chance that neither will. I.e, 30s. Harris is very unlikely to drop out. Trump is a possibility for multiple reasons.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,515
    edited August 21
    z
    Sandpit said:

    Money well spent and it ends up with the best of humanity.

    Post Office ‘has paid £250m to law firms over Horizon IT scandal’

    Amount reportedly paid to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers almost equal to payouts for victims


    The Post Office has paid out a quarter of a billion pounds in legal fees in relation to the Horizon IT scandal – almost equal to the amount which has been given so far to victims, some of whom were imprisoned and made bankrupt, it has been reported.

    The state-owned body paid out £256.9m to 15 law firms and two barristers chambers between September 2014 and March 2024, the Lawyer magazine reported after submitting a freedom of information (FoI) request.

    The figure for legal fees is almost the same as the £261m of financial redress that has been paid out to victims of the scandal as of 31 July.

    UK government figures show that the £261m has been paid so far to 2,800 claimants across three separate schemes. These include £54m for people who have had their criminal convictions overturned, as well as £126m for post office operatives that had financial shortfalls in their branches, and £80m for claimants in the high court lawsuit brought by the campaigner Sir Alan Bates and 554 post office operatives against the Post Office.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/21/post-office-law-firms-payouts-horizon-it-scandal

    That is of course our money. Few private companies could afford that, and if they could, they would certainly expect better advice than the PO got from its legal consultants. All that expensive advice ever seemed to do was encourage the PO to get itself deeper and deeper in the mire.

    These were no ordinary law firms and barristers dishing out hopeless incorrect and unhelpful advice. One of the most distinguished and expensive barristers in the country, Lord Grabiner, advised the PO to seek the recusal of the Judge who had given the PO short shrift in the crucial Common Issues trial. Grabiner accused the judge of bias. It was a ridulous charge, and in due course it was summarily dismissed as '...misconceived...fatally flawed...untenable and absurd'. It had the consequence however of delaying justice in the Horizon case even longer, and of course Grabiner trousered a lot of money for not much work. (His rate at the time was, I believe, £3,000 per hour, which even TSE would find impressive....although I hasten to add that the chances of getting some sensible advice from Eagles would be considerably better.)
    The Lord Grabiner KC is a hero of mine, we’ve instructed him a few times but more importantly he was the barrister for the current owners of Liverpool FC and won the court case for them to get rid of the previous owners.

    PS - It is £3,000 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.
    No wonder the country is fecked.
    So when the Lord Grabiner came to visit some clients in Manchester from London on the train they paid for the travel time, so it cost them circa £18,000 in travel time alone.

    He was worth every penny.
    For £18k you could have hired him an helicopter.
    Lord Grabber - "I prefer a coach and pair"
    @TheScreamingEagles - "Wouldn't a coach and four be faster?"
    Lord Grabber - "Exactly. Chiz. Chiz"

    EDIT: found a picture of Lord Grabber in his younger days


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    Barnesian said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Are these numbers trying to tell us that Trump might drop out?

    Trump 2.04
    Harris 2.1

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.176878927

    Remember that @kinabalu and I both long ago predicted that neither Biden nor Trumpton would run... to much mockery on here...
    I hope you've got a bet on it with high odds, just in case it does happen.
    I have bets on Vance and Haley at 220 and 260 just in case.

    I think the logic @Andy_JS is applying is that the odds of 2.04 and 2.1 imply a probability of 96.6% that either Trump or Harris will win, leaving a 3.6% chance that neither will. I.e, 30s. Harris is very unlikely to drop out. Trump is a possibility for multiple reasons.
    In the good old days of zero interest rates and negligible inflation, there would have been good money to be made laying whoever was 2.05 or 2.1 on any given day, while keeping the book balanced on both of them.
This discussion has been closed.