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Betfair punters remember this is a close race – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033
    Absolutely brutal juxtaposition.
    I was searching for clips to contrast this, but someone got there first.

    A tale of two roll calls: RNC vs. DNC
    https://x.com/Morning_Joe/status/1826198620724474332
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,237
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    As part of my "research" (reading and listening to YouTube lectures) on the Blob, may I recommend Prof Abby Innes (Associate Prof, European Institute at LSE) and her book "Late Soviet Britain: Why Materialist Utopias Fail".

    The TLDR is that in order to maintain control, the departmental structures that end up being created, whether fully publically owned as in a command economy or contracted out as in a market economy, end up so complex and unwieldy as to perpetually fail, and that both Thatcherites and Stalinists have to take refuge in the same denial of reality and retreat into fantasy to cope with that failure.

    Here is a 25 minute lecture. Have fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_H_1Akaip0

    Ah, the old Joseph Tainter theory about the Collapse of Complex Societies.

    That's one of those theories that lead to smart people losing vast amount of money.
    Seems to me the opposite is true. Complex societies are the best and most robust ones to live in.
    There is an element of truth that when allowed, organisations react to problems by creating more process. Despite the provable fact that no amount of rigid process will solve all problems.

    So everything gets slower and more expensive. https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/04/the-state-of-process-the-process-state/
    I am going to end up citing you. Again. :(
    Pace @Malmesbury
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,456
    HYUFD said:
    The source seems to be this interview on Politico: https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/an-awful-lot-of-wind/

    I was struck by this bit: "He won’t be drawn further, including on whether he suffered side effects — though when I ask later I’m told his usage was for six weeks in autumn 2023."

    So it doesn't say when exactly last autumn, but it's fair to assume that getting into better shape was a deliberate step on the path to making a leadership bid. As, of course, was his resignation in December.

    Demonstrates that he's been serious about preparing the ground - but then we knew that already, so it's unlikely to move sentiment that much.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    My partner went down to see it last year and absolutely loved it, I somewhat regret not going with her. I would have like to have seen the earlier cast with Jessie Buckley, she performs brilliantly of the soundtrack (and I find her alluring).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BBCLondonNews

    A 67-year-old man has been jailed after chanting "you're not English any more" at police officers during a violent demonstration in London."

    https://x.com/BBCLondonNews/status/1825594604168622262

    Context, as ever.

    For a start he was on license (ie recalled to prison if commits a further offence) from I think a 20 year sentence for drug crime (cocaine smuggling) dating from 2009.

    Then he had a leading role in starting the physical police - demonstrator confrontation.

    Both will have been taken into account - I really think we want all sentencing remarks to be published for this set of trials.

    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/24527451.east-london-career-criminal-david-notley-jailed-whitehall-disorder/
    If you are out on licence stay at home with your stamp collection. Don't go to public demonstrations and potential riots.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BBCLondonNews

    A 67-year-old man has been jailed after chanting "you're not English any more" at police officers during a violent demonstration in London."

    https://x.com/BBCLondonNews/status/1825594604168622262

    I imagine and hope there's much more to the story than meets the eye, as chanting is not last I checked a crime.

    Most of these stories have had more than meets the eye to them.
    The reporting on them has been on a par with the reporting on the JSO #wholetruthfive.

    There always is far more to it. Usually violent altercations.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,978

    An orgy is multiple co-located events with one of more participants in each

    I have to ask, what does an orgy with one participant involve, exactly...
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Sadly it seems this genius tax dodge has been ruled against.

    BBC News - Snail farm in city office sparks tax avoidance probe
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9904dz73pyo

    Its website says the number of snails per crate is kept to a minimum to avoid "cannibalism, group sex and snail orgies".
    I cannot help but wonder about what the distinction is between group sex and orgies.

    1 in 3 people fantasise about group sex whereas 3 in 1 is group sex.
    On the (risky) assumption you are being serious…

    Group sex is a singular event with multiple parties

    An orgy is multiple co-located events with one of more participants in each
    You seem to know a lot about this.
    The problem with orgies is that you’re not sure who to thank afterwards.
    "Thank you for having me"

    "It was nice of you to come"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    Is the 1970s film or have they done a re-make?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Scott_xP said:

    An orgy is multiple co-located events with one of more participants in each

    I have to ask, what does an orgy with one participant involve, exactly...
    That’s known as a Christian Horner.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    I think this is a good article on the BBC In Depth about how the far right in the UK has changed:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74lwnxxxzjo

    As someone who has spent years investigating right-wing extremism, I keep being asked who organised the chaos, as if there is one simple answer.

    But the recent disorder is more complex and has laid bare the anarchy of modern right-wing extremism, as well as the extent of its reach.

    The truth is that no one organisation owned or organised the riots: they were bigger than that.

    This lack of cohesion makes the situation more unpredictable and dangerous. For the authorities, there are so many potential rioters and potential targets, and a lack of obvious national organisations to disrupt.

    By contrast, counter-demonstrations by anti-racism campaigners have been far more cohesive and organised.

    I can't help that there is a bit of talking your own book here. You make a living by "investigating" the dark, mysterious world of right wing bigots. Turns out there is no master conspiracy after all but small numbers of right wing bigots and various hangers on up for a rumble who would find the organising of sex in a brothel somewhat problematic. So now their "chaotic nature" makes them even more unpredictable and dangerous. Just keep the paycheques coming.
    I think that's backwards analysis TBH.

    I think we start with "is this accurate" (personally my view is that it is quite accurate), and the established reliability or otherwise of the writer on the subject, and go from there with questions.

    "This problem maybe doesn't exist because the writer wants to make money" strikes me as facile - admitted that's perhaps a caricature of your view.
    I am not saying it doesn't exist. I am saying that it is not in the interest of the writer to understate it. There are undoubtedly some alienated yobs and racists who will seize any chance to cause trouble because no one listens to them at all when they don't. I think we should try to address at least parts of their concerns. But we should also keep a sense of proportion.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    Is the 1970s film or have they done a re-make?
    Stage show based on the same Kander & Ebb musical that the film was based.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,118
    edited August 21
    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    That's a bit of a model, perhaps, for how the process works in life, insidiously. Start off polished and friendly and tuneful, then before you know it the tune has gradually changed ... aka grooming. It's a similar process to how cults recruit - a key is to have the subject move away from other influences very gradually, and then reject them.

    One way to influence / recruit youth was called Project Schoolyard back in the day (say last time the far right was surging). One tactic was to hand out CDs of white power music at the school gate.

    From the Scottish Herald piece I linked last week:

    IN Scotland, I uncovered that Steve Cartwright had helped bring the concept – first originated in America – called Project Schoolyard to Britain. This saw neo-Nazis handing out white power CDs to children at school gates.
    This was an important and frightening development. Kids were being groomed. I began filming anything I could related to this, and eventually had enough material to air the documentary Nazi Hate Rock. It got me a Bafta nomination.
    Let me make clear just how vile white power music is: there’s a song like “Jack-Hammered N****r P***y”, or “Freezer-full of N****r heads”.

    https://archive.ph/Wh36D#selection-2113.3-2121.141

    Personally, my concern is how fuzzy it is at the edges, plus how far overlaps go.

    I haven't watched Cabaret - I'll have to do so.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Cabaret (1972) is one of those films I've been meaning to watch for about 20 years and never seem to get round to.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    That's a bit of a model, perhaps, for how the process works in life. Start off polished and friendly and tuneful, then before you know it the tune has changed ... aka grooming.

    One way to influence / recruit youth for the was called Project Schoolyard. One tactic was to hand out CDs of white power music at the school gate.

    From the Scottish Herald piece I linked last week:
    IN Scotland, I uncovered that Steve Cartwright had helped bring the concept – first originated in America – called Project Schoolyard to Britain. This saw neo-Nazis handing out white power CDs to children at school gates.
    This was an important and frightening development. Kids were being groomed. I began filming anything I could related to this, and eventually had enough material to air the documentary Nazi Hate Rock. It got me a Bafta nomination.
    Let me make clear just how vile white power music is: there’s a song like “Jack-Hammered N****r P***y”, or “Freezer-full of N****r heads”.

    https://archive.ph/Wh36D#selection-2113.3-2121.141

    I haven't watched Cabaret - I'll have to do so.
    "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" is a very interesting segment. I always found that quite shocking.

    also brilliantly parodied by Spitting Image ahead of the 87 General Election.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,237
    Scott_xP said:

    An orgy is multiple co-located events with one of more participants in each

    I have to ask, what does an orgy with one participant involve, exactly...
    That would be 1 of a number of co-located events. Watching, I would imagine.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,810

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Sadly it seems this genius tax dodge has been ruled against.

    BBC News - Snail farm in city office sparks tax avoidance probe
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9904dz73pyo

    Its website says the number of snails per crate is kept to a minimum to avoid "cannibalism, group sex and snail orgies".
    I cannot help but wonder about what the distinction is between group sex and orgies.

    1 in 3 people fantasise about group sex whereas 3 in 1 is group sex.
    On the (risky) assumption you are being serious…

    Group sex is a singular event with multiple parties

    An orgy is multiple co-located events with one of more participants in each
    You seem to know a lot about this.
    The problem with orgies is that you’re not sure who to thank afterwards.
    Especially snails, which are hermaphroditic and impregnate each other at the same time. No girl meets boy in pulmonate playland.

    Edit: oh yes, and stab each other with a special dart which they leave behind in the wound.
    Sounds like a typical Grindr date.
    Oh really? I wouldn't know, the things one learns on PB.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    mercator said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Sadly it seems this genius tax dodge has been ruled against.

    BBC News - Snail farm in city office sparks tax avoidance probe
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9904dz73pyo

    Its website says the number of snails per crate is kept to a minimum to avoid "cannibalism, group sex and snail orgies".
    I cannot help but wonder about what the distinction is between group sex and orgies.

    1 in 3 people fantasise about group sex whereas 3 in 1 is group sex.
    On the (risky) assumption you are being serious…

    Group sex is a singular event with multiple parties

    An orgy is multiple co-located events with one of more participants in each
    You seem to know a lot about this.
    The problem with orgies is that you’re not sure who to thank afterwards.
    "Thank you for having me"

    "It was nice of you to come"
    'Do come again.'

    'Give it ten minutres, I'm getting on a bit.'
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,237
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    That's a bit of a model, perhaps, for how the process works in life. Start off polished and friendly and tuneful, then before you know it the tune has changed ... aka grooming.

    One way to influence / recruit youth for the was called Project Schoolyard. One tactic was to hand out CDs of white power music at the school gate.

    From the Scottish Herald piece I linked last week:
    IN Scotland, I uncovered that Steve Cartwright had helped bring the concept – first originated in America – called Project Schoolyard to Britain. This saw neo-Nazis handing out white power CDs to children at school gates.
    This was an important and frightening development. Kids were being groomed. I began filming anything I could related to this, and eventually had enough material to air the documentary Nazi Hate Rock. It got me a Bafta nomination.
    Let me make clear just how vile white power music is: there’s a song like “Jack-Hammered N****r P***y”, or “Freezer-full of N****r heads”.

    https://archive.ph/Wh36D#selection-2113.3-2121.141

    I haven't watched Cabaret - I'll have to do so.
    "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" is a very interesting segment. I always found that quite shocking.

    also brilliantly parodied by Spitting Image ahead of the 87 General Election.
    Linked above
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,608
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Sadly it seems this genius tax dodge has been ruled against.

    BBC News - Snail farm in city office sparks tax avoidance probe
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9904dz73pyo

    Its website says the number of snails per crate is kept to a minimum to avoid "cannibalism, group sex and snail orgies".
    I cannot help but wonder about what the distinction is between group sex and orgies.

    1 in 3 people fantasise about group sex whereas 3 in 1 is group sex.
    On the (risky) assumption you are being serious…

    Group sex is a singular event with multiple parties

    An orgy is multiple co-located events with one of more participants in each
    You seem to know a lot about this.
    The problem with orgies is that you’re not sure who to thank afterwards.
    Especially snails, which are hermaphroditic and impregnate each other at the same time. No girl meets boy in pulmonate playland.

    Edit: oh yes, and stab each other with a special dart which they leave behind in the wound.
    Sounds like a typical Grindr date.
    Oh really? I wouldn't know, the things one learns on PB.
    I wrote about my experiences of using Grindr earlier on this year in a thread header.

    As a regular user of the Grindr app of many years I didn’t think anything could shock me when it came to that app but the behaviour of William Wragg, the Tory MP for Hazel Grove, has managed to leave me shocked and speechless.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/04/05/jesus-mary-joseph-and-the-wee-donkey/
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,032
    edited August 21

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    As part of my "research" (reading and listening to YouTube lectures) on the Blob, may I recommend Prof Abby Innes (Associate Prof, European Institute at LSE) and her book "Late Soviet Britain: Why Materialist Utopias Fail".

    The TLDR is that in order to maintain control, the departmental structures that end up being created, whether fully publically owned as in a command economy or contracted out as in a market economy, end up so complex and unwieldy as to perpetually fail, and that both Thatcherites and Stalinists have to take refuge in the same denial of reality and retreat into fantasy to cope with that failure.

    Here is a 25 minute lecture. Have fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_H_1Akaip0

    Ah, the old Joseph Tainter theory about the Collapse of Complex Societies.

    That's one of those theories that lead to smart people losing vast amount of money.
    Seems to me the opposite is true. Complex societies are the best and most robust ones to live in.
    There is an element of truth that when allowed, organisations react to problems by creating more process. Despite the provable fact that no amount of rigid process will solve all problems.

    So everything gets slower and more expensive. https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/04/the-state-of-process-the-process-state/
    That is one very characteristic response.

    The other one is to mess around with internal reorganisations, renaming departments and shifting responsibilities and people. How many names has the Border Force or whatever had in recent years?

    Moving the pieces around the chessboard is just as unlikely to work as making everything more complicated, but it enables people at the top to say "we're on top of this, look how busy we've been". And journalists and other commentators will always confuse activity with achievement because it provides them with a story in the short term, which is what they want.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    edited August 21
    Why were some wearing cheese hats at the Democratic convention? Almost certainly to advertise their home state of Wisconsin -- which produces billions of pounds of cheese every year: https://www.wisconsincheese.com/media/facts-stats/cheese-statistics

    Cheesehead hats are often worn by Green Bay Packer fans, for similar reasons. (Do the obvious search to see examples.)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,608
    Just seen how England took their fifth wicket. Bashir looks utterly embarrassed.

    https://x.com/SkyCricket/status/1826226763971576146
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,456

    UUP leadership update: candidates have until 30 August to collect the required nominations (35 signatures from 9 constituency associations)

    Robbie Butler MLA, the current deputy leader, has ruled himself out. There's talk of 3 possible candidates, including two previous leaders: Mike Nesbitt MLA, current NI Minister of Health and leader 2012-7; Robin Swann MP and leader 2017-9; and John Stewart MLA, Chief Whip.

    Nesbitt's most likely to win it out of that lot, but he's fishing in the same pool of (generally liberal) voters as Beattie was and will face exactly the same problems with the party's officers who would rather see (the socially conservative) Butler as leader.

    It's fair to say that a large chunk of the party is livid about the situation, and there are moves afoot to either replace or perhaps somehow reign in the officers: https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2024-08-20/uup-anger-as-members-bid-for-emergency-meeting-over-beattie-ousting

    If that happens, you might even see Beattie putting his name forward again - but he might well be too thoroughly sick of the whole thing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    As part of my "research" (reading and listening to YouTube lectures) on the Blob, may I recommend Prof Abby Innes (Associate Prof, European Institute at LSE) and her book "Late Soviet Britain: Why Materialist Utopias Fail".

    The TLDR is that in order to maintain control, the departmental structures that end up being created, whether fully publically owned as in a command economy or contracted out as in a market economy, end up so complex and unwieldy as to perpetually fail, and that both Thatcherites and Stalinists have to take refuge in the same denial of reality and retreat into fantasy to cope with that failure.

    Here is a 25 minute lecture. Have fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_H_1Akaip0

    Ah, the old Joseph Tainter theory about the Collapse of Complex Societies.

    That's one of those theories that lead to smart people losing vast amount of money.
    Seems to me the opposite is true. Complex societies are the best and most robust ones to live in.
    There is an element of truth that when allowed, organisations react to problems by creating more process. Despite the provable fact that no amount of rigid process will solve all problems.

    So everything gets slower and more expensive. https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/04/the-state-of-process-the-process-state/
    I am going to end up citing you. Again. :(
    Pace @Malmesbury
    Always... wanted... to be a "Pace"... {insert toe curling Oscars style acceptance speech here}
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    edited August 21
    Fishing said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    As part of my "research" (reading and listening to YouTube lectures) on the Blob, may I recommend Prof Abby Innes (Associate Prof, European Institute at LSE) and her book "Late Soviet Britain: Why Materialist Utopias Fail".

    The TLDR is that in order to maintain control, the departmental structures that end up being created, whether fully publically owned as in a command economy or contracted out as in a market economy, end up so complex and unwieldy as to perpetually fail, and that both Thatcherites and Stalinists have to take refuge in the same denial of reality and retreat into fantasy to cope with that failure.

    Here is a 25 minute lecture. Have fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_H_1Akaip0

    Ah, the old Joseph Tainter theory about the Collapse of Complex Societies.

    That's one of those theories that lead to smart people losing vast amount of money.
    Seems to me the opposite is true. Complex societies are the best and most robust ones to live in.
    There is an element of truth that when allowed, organisations react to problems by creating more process. Despite the provable fact that no amount of rigid process will solve all problems.

    So everything gets slower and more expensive. https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/04/the-state-of-process-the-process-state/
    That is one very characteristic response.

    The other one is to mess around with internal reorganisations, renaming departments and shifting responsibilities and people. How many names has the Border Force or whatever had in recent years?

    Moving the pieces around the chessboard is just as unlikely to work as making everything more complicated, but it enables people at the top to say "we're on top of this, look how busy we've been". And journalists and other commentators will always confuse activity with achievement because it provides them with a story in the short term, which is what they want.
    It just adds to the.... process.

    EDIT: The correct name is the Border Farce. Bit like Twatter.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    Is the 1970s film or have they done a re-make?
    Stage show based on the same Kander & Ebb musical that the film was based.
    The musical was based on an earlier play, that in turn was based on Christopher Isherwood's semi-autobiographical stories. (These were also the inspiration for The Buggles song "I am a Camera".)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,118

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    That's a bit of a model, perhaps, for how the process works in life. Start off polished and friendly and tuneful, then before you know it the tune has changed ... aka grooming.

    One way to influence / recruit youth for the was called Project Schoolyard. One tactic was to hand out CDs of white power music at the school gate.

    From the Scottish Herald piece I linked last week:
    IN Scotland, I uncovered that Steve Cartwright had helped bring the concept – first originated in America – called Project Schoolyard to Britain. This saw neo-Nazis handing out white power CDs to children at school gates.
    This was an important and frightening development. Kids were being groomed. I began filming anything I could related to this, and eventually had enough material to air the documentary Nazi Hate Rock. It got me a Bafta nomination.
    Let me make clear just how vile white power music is: there’s a song like “Jack-Hammered N****r P***y”, or “Freezer-full of N****r heads”.

    https://archive.ph/Wh36D#selection-2113.3-2121.141

    I haven't watched Cabaret - I'll have to do so.
    "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" is a very interesting segment. I always found that quite shocking.

    also brilliantly parodied by Spitting Image ahead of the 87 General Election.
    Linked above
    Interesting thread on Reddit about how Tomorrow Belongs to Me was appropriated by neo-Nazis as *their* song as far back as the 1970s.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/123wvmv/how_and_when_did_tomorrow_belongs_to_me_a_fake/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797

    Just seen how England took their fifth wicket. Bashir looks utterly embarrassed.

    https://x.com/SkyCricket/status/1826226763971576146

    On a day 1 pitch with a relatively new ball that is just ridiculous. What on earth has the groundsman done?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,032

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    As part of my "research" (reading and listening to YouTube lectures) on the Blob, may I recommend Prof Abby Innes (Associate Prof, European Institute at LSE) and her book "Late Soviet Britain: Why Materialist Utopias Fail".

    The TLDR is that in order to maintain control, the departmental structures that end up being created, whether fully publically owned as in a command economy or contracted out as in a market economy, end up so complex and unwieldy as to perpetually fail, and that both Thatcherites and Stalinists have to take refuge in the same denial of reality and retreat into fantasy to cope with that failure.

    Here is a 25 minute lecture. Have fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_H_1Akaip0

    Ah, the old Joseph Tainter theory about the Collapse of Complex Societies.

    That's one of those theories that lead to smart people losing vast amount of money.
    Seems to me the opposite is true. Complex societies are the best and most robust ones to live in.
    There is an element of truth that when allowed, organisations react to problems by creating more process. Despite the provable fact that no amount of rigid process will solve all problems.

    So everything gets slower and more expensive. https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/04/the-state-of-process-the-process-state/
    I am going to end up citing you. Again. :(
    Pace @Malmesbury
    Always... wanted... to be a "Pace"... {insert toe curling Oscars style acceptance speech here}
    You don't seem to have much in common with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, but it's good to have a goal in life I suppose.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173

    Just seen how England took their fifth wicket. Bashir looks utterly embarrassed.

    https://x.com/SkyCricket/status/1826226763971576146

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK8jEfqls9o
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,662

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BBCLondonNews

    A 67-year-old man has been jailed after chanting "you're not English any more" at police officers during a violent demonstration in London."

    https://x.com/BBCLondonNews/status/1825594604168622262

    I imagine and hope there's much more to the story than meets the eye, as chanting is not last I checked a crime.

    Most of these stories have had more than meets the eye to them.
    He admitted to violent disorder and was out on licence from a 20-year sentence for cocaine smuggling.

    So, yeah, the headline is completely irresponsible. "67 year old convicted cocaine smuggler jailed after participating in recent riots" would be a lot more accurate, and wouldn't create the impression of a draconian crackdown.
    Perhaps those Russian trolls have moved on to writing the BBC headlines as well as flooding X/Twitter?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    Fishing said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    As part of my "research" (reading and listening to YouTube lectures) on the Blob, may I recommend Prof Abby Innes (Associate Prof, European Institute at LSE) and her book "Late Soviet Britain: Why Materialist Utopias Fail".

    The TLDR is that in order to maintain control, the departmental structures that end up being created, whether fully publically owned as in a command economy or contracted out as in a market economy, end up so complex and unwieldy as to perpetually fail, and that both Thatcherites and Stalinists have to take refuge in the same denial of reality and retreat into fantasy to cope with that failure.

    Here is a 25 minute lecture. Have fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_H_1Akaip0

    Ah, the old Joseph Tainter theory about the Collapse of Complex Societies.

    That's one of those theories that lead to smart people losing vast amount of money.
    Seems to me the opposite is true. Complex societies are the best and most robust ones to live in.
    There is an element of truth that when allowed, organisations react to problems by creating more process. Despite the provable fact that no amount of rigid process will solve all problems.

    So everything gets slower and more expensive. https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/02/04/the-state-of-process-the-process-state/
    I am going to end up citing you. Again. :(
    Pace @Malmesbury
    Always... wanted... to be a "Pace"... {insert toe curling Oscars style acceptance speech here}
    You don't seem to have much in common with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, but it's good to have a goal in life I suppose.
    Replace the Police and Criminal Evidence Act with a reference to an obscure document.

    No, Jenkins, not Magna Carta. Poor old Magna has suffered quite enough.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,608
    edited August 21
    tlg86 said:

    Just seen how England took their fifth wicket. Bashir looks utterly embarrassed.

    https://x.com/SkyCricket/status/1826226763971576146

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK8jEfqls9o
    At lunch Nick Knight Ian Ward showed that footage to Nasser Hussain who still hasn’t gotten over it in 26 years.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    July borrowing figure £3.1bn, it was expected to be a flat month at £0.1bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/08/21/ftse-100-markets-latest-news-government-borrowing-reeves/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    Scott_xP said:

    An orgy is multiple co-located events with one of more participants in each

    I have to ask, what does an orgy with one participant involve, exactly...
    At least two pairs of socks.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,866
    Sandpit said:

    July borrowing figure £3.1bn, it was expected to be a flat month at £0.1bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/08/21/ftse-100-markets-latest-news-government-borrowing-reeves/

    Having to pay £7 billion in debt interest payments because of all the borrowing racked up by the previous Conservativr Government probably didn't help.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    "I am going to give the last word to Timothy Snyder:

    Trump is in the classic dictatorial position: He needs to die in bed holding all executive power to stay out of prison. This means that he will do whatever he can to gain power, and once in power will do all that he can to never let it go. This is a basic incentive structure which underlies everything else. It is entirely inconsistent with democracy."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/21/opinion/trump-second-term-2025.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033
    edited August 21

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    Is the 1970s film or have they done a re-make?
    Stage show based on the same Kander & Ebb musical that the film was based.
    The musical was based on an earlier play, that in turn was based on Christopher Isherwood's semi-autobiographical stories. (These were also the inspiration for The Buggles song "I am a Camera".)
    See also my current PB pic.

    And Dorothy Parker's one line review:
    "Me no Leica".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    July borrowing figure £3.1bn, it was expected to be a flat month at £0.1bn.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/08/21/ftse-100-markets-latest-news-government-borrowing-reeves/

    Having to pay £7 billion in debt interest payments because of all the borrowing racked up by the previous Conservativr Government probably didn't help.
    Was debt interest higher than expected? The report suggested it was down to higher departmental expenditure instead.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.
    I don't think this is xenophobic bullshit. Deportations collapsed under the Tories, a mix of underfunding and a deliberate policy of not processing claims. The sensible thing to do is to process claims, some of whom warrant deportation. Remove the people who should be removed as quickly as possible is a sensible approach.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.
    If you voted Lab you did vote for xenophobic bullshit, they were using it throughout the campaign

    SKS Fans own your xenophobic bullshit
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    Is the 1970s film or have they done a re-make?
    Stage show based on the same Kander & Ebb musical that the film was based.
    The musical was based on an earlier play, that in turn was based on Christopher Isherwood's semi-autobiographical stories. (These were also the inspiration for The Buggles song "I am a Camera".)
    Indeed - Isherwood wrote "Mr Norris Changes Trains" and "Goodbye to Berlin" on which the various films and plays are based. They are outstanding sources for the rise of Hitler and the demi-monde which was Berlin in the 20s and 30s.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,588

    Just seen how England took their fifth wicket. Bashir looks utterly embarrassed.

    https://x.com/SkyCricket/status/1826226763971576146

    Why did they appeal that?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    Why hasn't @DavidLammy
    published the legal advice on arms sales to Israel he demanded his predecessor David Cameron publish just months ago?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,588
    DavidL said:

    Just seen how England took their fifth wicket. Bashir looks utterly embarrassed.

    https://x.com/SkyCricket/status/1826226763971576146

    On a day 1 pitch with a relatively new ball that is just ridiculous. What on earth has the groundsman done?
    Something like this:

    Desert dunes
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited August 21

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BBCLondonNews

    A 67-year-old man has been jailed after chanting "you're not English any more" at police officers during a violent demonstration in London."

    https://x.com/BBCLondonNews/status/1825594604168622262

    The BBC need better headline writers.

    He helped push another demonstrator into a police officer which "precipitated a physical confrontation involving the police [and] demonstrators", the prosecutor said.
    Some PB posters like to promote the click-bait notion that wallflower "patriots" are being hard done by.

    I am no fan of Plod, but when b@stards are lobbing breeze blocks at them, the aforementioned b@stards should go straight to jail without passing Go!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    Blinken pretends he and Genocide Joe aren't complicit

    https://x.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1826140094408843753
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.
    I don't think this is xenophobic bullshit. Deportations collapsed under the Tories, a mix of underfunding and a deliberate policy of not processing claims. The sensible thing to do is to process claims, some of whom warrant deportation. Remove the people who should be removed as quickly as possible is a sensible approach.
    With a caveat over the Windrush scandal, it's hard to find deporting illegals a bad thing to do. Indeed it's exactly what border security requires.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:

    There's a whiff of corruption around Kennedy, isn't there, both personal and political.

    I think youll find that goes back several generations and nobody on the Dem side was that worried.
    It is bizarre to me that my parents generation of Democrats venerates the Kennedys. He was a very poor president, a poor human being but being good looking can apparently overcome everything.
    Cuban Missile Crisis he did well, Bay of Pigs less so. He also cut taxes and grew the economy and began to move towards more civil rights for African Americans though LBJ did most of the work and created Medicare and Medicaid. JFK also avoided full on involvement in the Vietnam War which clouded LBJ's legacy and Bobby Kennedy in 1968 of course campaigned to end the war in Vietnam and for a negotiated settlement
    He gave LBJ a bit of a hospital pass on Vietnam though.
    But that's my point about his learning from mistakes in office - and the truncated potential.

    A detailed reading of the history very strongly suggests that he'd started to be deeply sceptical about the justification for US policy in Vietnam (and the majority hawkish view of his administration) and it's at least reasonably likely (probable in my view) that he'd have cut US losses, and pulled out, rather than escalating as LBJ did.

    Another of the great disappointments of history is that I don't think we'll ever get Robert Caro's full take on that.
    No, not looking good for more LBJ from Caro. My dad (91) chases his publisher on it every few months. The reply is always nice but not especially informative.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,662
    mwadams said:

    Just seen how England took their fifth wicket. Bashir looks utterly embarrassed.

    https://x.com/SkyCricket/status/1826226763971576146

    Why did they appeal that?
    Perhaps they thought it was missing low?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    edited August 21
    SandraMc said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    Is the 1970s film or have they done a re-make?
    Stage show based on the same Kander & Ebb musical that the film was based.
    The musical was based on an earlier play, that in turn was based on Christopher Isherwood's semi-autobiographical stories. (These were also the inspiration for The Buggles song "I am a Camera".)
    Indeed - Isherwood wrote "Mr Norris Changes Trains" and "Goodbye to Berlin" on which the various films and plays are based. They are outstanding sources for the rise of Hitler and the demi-monde which was Berlin in the 20s and 30s.
    I saw a production at the Old Vic, Bristol, years ago. In the interval, some people were complaining that the actress playing Sally "wasn't as good as Liza Minelli", forgetting that Minelli could have had umpteen takes to achieve her incredible performance.

    Some people think Minelli's performance is too good for the part. Sally is performing in a third-rate club and is riddled with doubts as to whether she is good enough for that. Minelli gives a world class performance.
    There was a very good revival at Curve in Leicester recently.

    Very pertinent in these days of gender and culture wars.

    The beer garden scene is possibly the creepiest scene in musical history.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,584

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    Yes you did. Starmer specially promised to deport people to Bangladesh.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.
    Hopefully we are going back to those heady days when the rule of law meant something. The money wasted on decisions, appeals, further appeals and judicial reviews only to do.....nothing is simply unforgivable. And years later, when they have started families here, we get to do it all again dealing with their article 8 rights acquired because the first order was never actually enforced.

    We end up with hundreds of thousands living in a shadowland where they can't get a proper job, decent housing, proper health care, education for their kids, where they are left vulnerable to exploitation because of their status and utterly alienated from a society they wanted to be a part of. Its immoral, its wicked and it creates so many problems for our society.

    We need widescale amnesties to deal with the ridiculous backlog and then, yes, when people are found not to be eligible to be here, we need to act and ensure that they go back home. Promptly.
    We don't need wide scale amenities.

    Implement my plan for smashing the black economy.

    Sure, GDP will have a bit of a lurch.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.
    It seems like bad politics because it won't win any support from the Farage gang, and will annoy left-of-centre voters.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    Yes you did. Starmer specially promised to deport people to Bangladesh.
    He promised to deport those making invalid asylum claims and gave Bangladesh as an example of somewhere where there are more invalid claims.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,039

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    My partner went down to see it last year and absolutely loved it, I somewhat regret not going with her. I would have like to have seen the earlier cast with Jessie Buckley, she performs brilliantly of the soundtrack (and I find her alluring).
    I saw it when it opened in London. A wonderful show with real impact. There’s a moment in the show when the swastika is first revealed, when I swear everyone in the theatre took a sharp breath and felt real shock: even those of us who’ve seen many versions over the years. That plus the handling of “if you could see her through my eyes” are genius.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:

    There's a whiff of corruption around Kennedy, isn't there, both personal and political.

    I think youll find that goes back several generations and nobody on the Dem side was that worried.
    It is bizarre to me that my parents generation of Democrats venerates the Kennedys. He was a very poor president, a poor human being but being good looking can apparently overcome everything.
    Cuban Missile Crisis he did well, Bay of Pigs less so. He also cut taxes and grew the economy and began to move towards more civil rights for African Americans though LBJ did most of the work and created Medicare and Medicaid. JFK also avoided full on involvement in the Vietnam War which clouded LBJ's legacy and Bobby Kennedy in 1968 of course campaigned to end the war in Vietnam and for a negotiated settlement
    He gave LBJ a bit of a hospital pass on Vietnam though.
    But that's my point about his learning from mistakes in office - and the truncated potential.

    A detailed reading of the history very strongly suggests that he'd started to be deeply sceptical about the justification for US policy in Vietnam (and the majority hawkish view of his administration) and it's at least reasonably likely (probable in my view) that he'd have cut US losses, and pulled out, rather than escalating as LBJ did.

    Another of the great disappointments of history is that I don't think we'll ever get Robert Caro's full take on that.
    No, not looking good for more LBJ from Caro. My dad (91) chases his publisher on it every few months. The reply is always nice but not especially informative.
    We've yet to have a truly comprehensive, dispassionate history of Vietnam.
    There are many great accounts, but the best of them are by those who were too involved to give more than a partial view. And the sources so copious that it would be the work of a lifetime, for another Caro.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    Yes you did. Starmer specially promised to deport people to Bangladesh.
    Yes, illegals and those whose asylum applications had been refused.

    The obvious question for the Tories is to ask why they did not.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.
    It seems like bad politics because it won't win any support from the Farage gang, and will annoy left-of-centre voters.
    Mabe it is simply the right thing to do, and I think opinions in migrant communities about illegals is not very different to ethnic Britons.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,242
    Foxy said:

    SandraMc said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    Is the 1970s film or have they done a re-make?
    Stage show based on the same Kander & Ebb musical that the film was based.
    The musical was based on an earlier play, that in turn was based on Christopher Isherwood's semi-autobiographical stories. (These were also the inspiration for The Buggles song "I am a Camera".)
    Indeed - Isherwood wrote "Mr Norris Changes Trains" and "Goodbye to Berlin" on which the various films and plays are based. They are outstanding sources for the rise of Hitler and the demi-monde which was Berlin in the 20s and 30s.
    I saw a production at the Old Vic, Bristol, years ago. In the interval, some people were complaining that the actress playing Sally "wasn't as good as Liza Minelli", forgetting that Minelli could have had umpteen takes to achieve her incredible performance.

    Some people think Minelli's performance is too good for the part. Sally is performing in a third-rate club and is riddled with doubts as to whether she is good enough for that. Minelli gives a world class performance.
    There was a very good revival at Curve in Leicester recently.

    Very pertinent in these days of gender and culture wars.

    The beer garden scene is possibly the creepiest scene in musical history.
    Saw a production in New York of Fidler on the Roof in Yiddish, directed by Joel Grey (EmCee in Cabaret) about 5 years ago. He very nearly stole the movie from Minelli. It's good to know he was still working hard in his late eighties.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,580

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.
    I don't think this is xenophobic bullshit. Deportations collapsed under the Tories, a mix of underfunding and a deliberate policy of not processing claims. The sensible thing to do is to process claims, some of whom warrant deportation. Remove the people who should be removed as quickly as possible is a sensible approach.
    I agree with that. She just needs to watch her language.

    "We will process asylum claimants much quicker. This will save money on housing them. It will enable genuine asylum seekers to start work, pay taxes and help the economy. And those who fail the test will be deported."

    None of this I'll lock 'em up stuff. I wonder if that is a genuine quote.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,039
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:

    There's a whiff of corruption around Kennedy, isn't there, both personal and political.

    I think youll find that goes back several generations and nobody on the Dem side was that worried.
    It is bizarre to me that my parents generation of Democrats venerates the Kennedys. He was a very poor president, a poor human being but being good looking can apparently overcome everything.
    Cuban Missile Crisis he did well, Bay of Pigs less so. He also cut taxes and grew the economy and began to move towards more civil rights for African Americans though LBJ did most of the work and created Medicare and Medicaid. JFK also avoided full on involvement in the Vietnam War which clouded LBJ's legacy and Bobby Kennedy in 1968 of course campaigned to end the war in Vietnam and for a negotiated settlement
    He gave LBJ a bit of a hospital pass on Vietnam though.
    But that's my point about his learning from mistakes in office - and the truncated potential.

    A detailed reading of the history very strongly suggests that he'd started to be deeply sceptical about the justification for US policy in Vietnam (and the majority hawkish view of his administration) and it's at least reasonably likely (probable in my view) that he'd have cut US losses, and pulled out, rather than escalating as LBJ did.

    Another of the great disappointments of history is that I don't think we'll ever get Robert Caro's full take on that.
    No, not looking good for more LBJ from Caro. My dad (91) chases his publisher on it every few months. The reply is always nice but not especially informative.
    We've yet to have a truly comprehensive, dispassionate history of Vietnam.
    There are many great accounts, but the best of them are by those who were too involved to give more than a partial view. And the sources so copious that it would be the work of a lifetime, for another Caro.
    Really you want the contemporaneous Vietnamese documents, and I suspect that’s something for 100 years from now if they kept them at all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    BBC News - Pakistan arrests man over Southport attack disinformation
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c05je6yz0q1o

    Interesting, the media initially reported this as Russian disinformation site.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309

    Scottish government failing on Post Office scandal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clylnely25eo

    You could make that statement about almost anything
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    Yes you did. Starmer specially promised to deport people to Bangladesh.

    He provided an example of a country to which it is possible to deport those who have failed with asylum applications but to which deportations were not happening.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,201
    Funny how people's attitudes to deporting would be immigrants have changed.

    Has something changed in politics in the last couple of months?

    PM looks a bit taller than I last remember. Also, he seems to have been at the cake.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.
    Hopefully we are going back to those heady days when the rule of law meant something. The money wasted on decisions, appeals, further appeals and judicial reviews only to do.....nothing is simply unforgivable. And years later, when they have started families here, we get to do it all again dealing with their article 8 rights acquired because the first order was never actually enforced.

    We end up with hundreds of thousands living in a shadowland where they can't get a proper job, decent housing, proper health care, education for their kids, where they are left vulnerable to exploitation because of their status and utterly alienated from a society they wanted to be a part of. Its immoral, its wicked and it creates so many problems for our society.

    We need widescale amnesties to deal with the ridiculous backlog and then, yes, when people are found not to be eligible to be here, we need to act and ensure that they go back home. Promptly.
    We don't need wide scale amenities.

    Implement my plan for smashing the black economy.

    Sure, GDP will have a bit of a lurch.
    Interesting typo but I get what you mean even if I disagree. Every case is taking far too long to resolve. We need a clean start. Anyone who has been in this country for 10 years should get indefinite leave to remain. We have had our chance and then some.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,584

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    Yes you did. Starmer specially promised to deport people to Bangladesh.

    He provided an example of a country to which it is possible to deport those who have failed with asylum applications but to which deportations were not happening.
    The same words could have been spoken by Tommy Robinson.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    Sri Lanka batters are rubbish.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033
    .
    biggles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    My partner went down to see it last year and absolutely loved it, I somewhat regret not going with her. I would have like to have seen the earlier cast with Jessie Buckley, she performs brilliantly of the soundtrack (and I find her alluring).
    I saw it when it opened in London. A wonderful show with real impact. There’s a moment in the show when the swastika is first revealed, when I swear everyone in the theatre took a sharp breath and felt real shock: even those of us who’ve seen many versions over the years. That plus the handling of “if you could see her through my eyes” are genius.
    Was that with Anna Maxwell Martin ?
    Would have loved to see that.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,350

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    Yes you did. Starmer specially promised to deport people to Bangladesh.

    He provided an example of a country to which it is possible to deport those who have failed with asylum applications but to which deportations were not happening.
    The same words could have been spoken by Tommy Robinson.
    Tommy Robinson would deport everyone who immigrated in the last century. It's an absurd comparison.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    SandraMc said:

    felix said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Last night I saw Cabaret, about the Kit Kat Club at the tail end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of the Nazis.

    I saw it with my wife, 14 year old son and 16 year old daughter. My daughter was utterly distraught at the end. And I must admit it was not entirely at all age appropriate. However, it was incredibly powerful, in two regards: Firstly, the willingness of ordinary people to shrug their shouders and says "it'll be OK, governments come and go", when bad bad things are coming; and secondly, how easy it is for ordinary people to do things they wouldn't normally do when they are desperate for money.

    I would recommend it to anyone who wants a powerful, but somewhat distressing, evening out.

    Is the 1970s film or have they done a re-make?
    Stage show based on the same Kander & Ebb musical that the film was based.
    The musical was based on an earlier play, that in turn was based on Christopher Isherwood's semi-autobiographical stories. (These were also the inspiration for The Buggles song "I am a Camera".)
    Indeed - Isherwood wrote "Mr Norris Changes Trains" and "Goodbye to Berlin" on which the various films and plays are based. They are outstanding sources for the rise of Hitler and the demi-monde which was Berlin in the 20s and 30s.
    I saw a production at the Old Vic, Bristol, years ago. In the interval, some people were complaining that the actress playing Sally "wasn't as good as Liza Minelli", forgetting that Minelli could have had umpteen takes to achieve her incredible performance.

    Some people think Minelli's performance is too good for the part. Sally is performing in a third-rate club and is riddled with doubts as to whether she is good enough for that. Minelli gives a world class performance.
    She's great in the film but if course it's Hollywood does 'litrachur'.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    Yes you did. Starmer specially promised to deport people to Bangladesh.

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    Yes you did. Starmer specially promised to deport people to Bangladesh.

    He provided an example of a country to which it is possible to deport those who have failed with asylum applications but to which deportations were not happening.
    The same words could have been spoken by Tommy Robinson.
    If this is the quality of analysis on here now, perhaps Leon was correct and we are all too thick for him.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    BBC News - Pakistan arrests man over Southport attack disinformation
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c05je6yz0q1o

    Interesting, the media initially reported this as Russian disinformation site.

    Yes. It now looks like it isn't a Russian site, although Russian channels certainly amplified the message.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited August 21

    BBC News - Pakistan arrests man over Southport attack disinformation
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c05je6yz0q1o

    Interesting, the media initially reported this as Russian disinformation site.

    Yes. It now looks like it isn't a Russian site, although Russian channels certainly amplified the message.
    When you suggest "Russian channels", is that a metaphor for Farage who certainly amplified the message/falsehood?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,118
    CCTV of Bayesian yacht going down:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws2ZuiNCFOg

    (Not brilliant quality)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    Foxy said:

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    Yes you did. Starmer specially promised to deport people to Bangladesh.
    Yes, illegals and those whose asylum applications had been refused.

    The obvious question for the Tories is to ask why they did not.

    It’s obvious, innit? Sir Beer Korma likes curry, so isn’t going to send home any illegals that work in curry houses.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,033
    biggles said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    kinabalu said:

    There's a whiff of corruption around Kennedy, isn't there, both personal and political.

    I think youll find that goes back several generations and nobody on the Dem side was that worried.
    It is bizarre to me that my parents generation of Democrats venerates the Kennedys. He was a very poor president, a poor human being but being good looking can apparently overcome everything.
    Cuban Missile Crisis he did well, Bay of Pigs less so. He also cut taxes and grew the economy and began to move towards more civil rights for African Americans though LBJ did most of the work and created Medicare and Medicaid. JFK also avoided full on involvement in the Vietnam War which clouded LBJ's legacy and Bobby Kennedy in 1968 of course campaigned to end the war in Vietnam and for a negotiated settlement
    He gave LBJ a bit of a hospital pass on Vietnam though.
    But that's my point about his learning from mistakes in office - and the truncated potential.

    A detailed reading of the history very strongly suggests that he'd started to be deeply sceptical about the justification for US policy in Vietnam (and the majority hawkish view of his administration) and it's at least reasonably likely (probable in my view) that he'd have cut US losses, and pulled out, rather than escalating as LBJ did.

    Another of the great disappointments of history is that I don't think we'll ever get Robert Caro's full take on that.
    No, not looking good for more LBJ from Caro. My dad (91) chases his publisher on it every few months. The reply is always nice but not especially informative.
    We've yet to have a truly comprehensive, dispassionate history of Vietnam.
    There are many great accounts, but the best of them are by those who were too involved to give more than a partial view. And the sources so copious that it would be the work of a lifetime, for another Caro.
    Really you want the contemporaneous Vietnamese documents, and I suspect that’s something for 100 years from now if they kept them at all.
    Oh, they're around.
    Some of them at least (though a lot will have been destroyed) and a huge number already available.

    A decade ago, for example, Nick Turse wrote Kill Anything that Moves, which sourced contemporary military cables regarding a number of US massacres, and a de facto policy of targeting civilians.

    It's very difficult to hide or destroy documentation for a conflict as huge, and central ti the governments of a decade, as was Vietnam - the leak of the Pentagon Papers showed that half a century back.

    And the Presidential Records Act preserves and makes available a vast trove of documents.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Records_Act
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    'EXCLUSIVE: SNP ministers have intervened amid plans for a horse trotting track on the Bannockburn battlefield.

    Stirling Council approved the development, but the Scottish Government will now make the final decision'
    https://x.com/ScotNational/status/1826227486138802533
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.
    You want people with no legal right to be in the UK to just be able to stay here? You should have voted Green.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044

    Funny how people's attitudes to deporting would be immigrants have changed.

    Has something changed in politics in the last couple of months?

    PM looks a bit taller than I last remember. Also, he seems to have been at the cake.

    I think nearly everyone thinks that those who don't have a valid asylum claim should be deported. It was weird how the Tories seemed to think that not doing that somehow made their position better. It should be a no brainer.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541

    Sri Lanka batters are rubbish.

    They've only played one warm-up match in preparation for English conditions. Not enough.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    Andy_JS said:

    "Yvette Cooper: I’ll lock up and deport more migrants
    Home Secretary vows to increase removals to levels not seen since Theresa May’s government"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/21/yvette-cooper-labour-lock-up-more-migrants/

    Oh great, are we going to go back to the days of "Go Home" vans?

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    I lent my vote to Labour and thought Labour might quickly lose it due to economics, I didn't think they'd lose it for fading into being some sort of Reform Tribute Act.
    You want people with no legal right to be in the UK to just be able to stay here? You should have voted Green.
    He should have voted LD, the Greens are too Nimby for him nationally
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,638
    HYUFD said:

    'EXCLUSIVE: SNP ministers have intervened amid plans for a horse trotting track on the Bannockburn battlefield.

    Stirling Council approved the development, but the Scottish Government will now make the final decision'
    https://x.com/ScotNational/status/1826227486138802533

    Can't wait for Malcolm's take on this!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,060

    FULL SPEECH: Joe Biden’s full speech at the DNC 20 Aug 2024: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehmgSOPVBZw
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,584

    Funny how people's attitudes to deporting would be immigrants have changed.

    Has something changed in politics in the last couple of months?

    PM looks a bit taller than I last remember. Also, he seems to have been at the cake.

    I think nearly everyone thinks that those who don't have a valid asylum claim should be deported. It was weird how the Tories seemed to think that not doing that somehow made their position better. It should be a no brainer.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/10/deportation-row-david-lammy-asks-when-will-black-lives-matter-again

    David Lammy has challenged the government over the Home Office’s decision to resume deportation flights to Jamaica, asking it to demonstrate that “black lives matter”.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    iSKS when he was pretending to be left wing: We will close Yarls Wood

    Keir Starmer now: We will increase immigration detention spaces.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,189

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BBCLondonNews

    A 67-year-old man has been jailed after chanting "you're not English any more" at police officers during a violent demonstration in London."

    https://x.com/BBCLondonNews/status/1825594604168622262

    I imagine and hope there's much more to the story than meets the eye, as chanting is not last I checked a crime.

    Most of these stories have had more than meets the eye to them.
    He admitted to violent disorder and was out on licence from a 20-year sentence for cocaine smuggling.

    So, yeah, the headline is completely irresponsible. "67 year old convicted cocaine smuggler jailed after participating in recent riots" would be a lot more accurate, and wouldn't create the impression of a draconian crackdown.
    Perhaps those Russian trolls have moved on to writing the BBC headlines as well as flooding X/Twitter?
    The actual headline says 'Protester Jailed Over Violent Disorder' - at least it does for me:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gq8rn4y0jo
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652

    iSKS when he was pretending to be left wing: We will close Yarls Wood

    Keir Starmer now: We will increase immigration detention spaces.

    What's the rationale for allowing illegal immigrants to remain in the UK without consequence?

  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,189
    kamski said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@BBCLondonNews

    A 67-year-old man has been jailed after chanting "you're not English any more" at police officers during a violent demonstration in London."

    https://x.com/BBCLondonNews/status/1825594604168622262

    I imagine and hope there's much more to the story than meets the eye, as chanting is not last I checked a crime.

    Most of these stories have had more than meets the eye to them.
    He admitted to violent disorder and was out on licence from a 20-year sentence for cocaine smuggling.

    So, yeah, the headline is completely irresponsible. "67 year old convicted cocaine smuggler jailed after participating in recent riots" would be a lot more accurate, and wouldn't create the impression of a draconian crackdown.
    Perhaps those Russian trolls have moved on to writing the BBC headlines as well as flooding X/Twitter?
    The actual headline says 'Protester Jailed Over Violent Disorder' - at least it does for me:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gq8rn4y0jo
    Can't imagine why people would link to a tweet which links to an article, rather than linking to the article itself
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    Yes you did. Starmer specially promised to deport people to Bangladesh.

    He provided an example of a country to which it is possible to deport those who have failed with asylum applications but to which deportations were not happening.
    The same words could have been spoken by Tommy Robinson.

    No, Tommy Robinson is opposed to all immigration, not just the illegal kind.

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    I did not vote for this xenophobic bullshit.

    Yes you did. Starmer specially promised to deport people to Bangladesh.

    He provided an example of a country to which it is possible to deport those who have failed with asylum applications but to which deportations were not happening.
    The same words could have been spoken by Tommy Robinson.

    No, Tommy Robinson is opposed to all immigration, not just the illegal kind.

    Even his Mum?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 495

    iSKS when he was pretending to be left wing: We will close Yarls Wood

    Keir Starmer now: We will increase immigration detention spaces.

    What's the rationale for allowing illegal immigrants to remain in the UK without consequence?

    They're not illegal until they've been processed, once processed if they're denied asylum then their return has to be agreed.
    Being detained at Yarls Wood is reportedly not a pleasant experience.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Dopermean said:

    iSKS when he was pretending to be left wing: We will close Yarls Wood

    Keir Starmer now: We will increase immigration detention spaces.

    What's the rationale for allowing illegal immigrants to remain in the UK without consequence?

    They're not illegal until they've been processed, once processed if they're denied asylum then their return has to be agreed.
    Being detained at Yarls Wood is reportedly not a pleasant experience.

    That's asylum seekers. I'm talking about illegal immigrants.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797

    Sri Lanka batters are rubbish.

    They mostly average over 40. Dhananjaya de Silva is playing really well. We will have to see how England get on but it may be a dodgy pitch.
This discussion has been closed.