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A week is a long time in politics – politicalbetting.com

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  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,424
    edited July 28
    There is an intense feeling of anticipation when you're catching up with a thread and note that a couple of posters have been whacked by the banhammer. Holocaust denial? Doxxing? The C word? Artificial Intelligence? Radiohead?

    Bit underwhelming in the end. But understandable.

    (You also have to assume that the spicier posts have been deleted).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Kamala is really working hard for the @rcs1000 endorsement.

    image
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Gah. The airport car has failed. 2009 Hyundai i30. Have washed both cars and opened its bonnet to top up screen wash. Bloody primary latch won't latch - keeps defaulting to open. Can see the wire pulling below the spring when you pull the release handle, can push the latch down with a screwdriver and the spring is tensioning. It just won't latch...

    Git.

    My car experience of the last month has been awful.

    Car nicked from outside the house at the start of the month, second time in 3 years. Tracked to a place nearby, police don’t bother to look until next morning, by which time it’s gone.

    Claim on insurance and go about quickly finding a replacement as we had a weekend away (this weekend) and a trip to France planned. Bought a replacement used car and got it delivered, finally, on Friday an hour before we set off for our weekend.

    Halfway there it decided the gearbox was going to develop a fault. Limped in to our destination in North Norfolk. Now it’s been towed away but they can’t replace the part for a month. So we’re without a car again.

    Meanwhile the stolen car turns up. Taken to the pound. Insurance were supposed to get it to a body shop to repair the inside where the tracker was ripped out, but they forgot. So it’s still in the pound.
    My wife’s Audi A3 EV has been in for SEVEN MONTHS (this is the fourth time since last September. It occasionally shows a ‘drive system failure error’ and won’t start. But it will,then start and drive as Normal.

    Change the 12v battery, the mechatronics and now they think the problem is with the EV battery. Been waiting for a part signed February !!

    It’s under warranty and we have a 24 Reg version. I put a complaint in monthly.get an update and it continues. Will give it to the end of this month then escalate it.
    Send them a large bill for the No Charge.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,302
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    Not really no. I’m not rich, employment law doesn’t really pay, and I’ve been wrongfully arrested in Canterbury, Kent for nicking a French tourist’s wallet, and punched by a cop in St Petersburg, Russia, who only let me go when I convinced him I was on the crew of Goldeneye doing post (this was in 1995) and gave him $20. I appreciate that in your ivory tower things are rosy out there but, really, they’re not.
    Arrested for robbing the French?

    When did they make that a crime as opposed to the basis for the award of a knighthood?
    Exactly the point I made.
    If I were Prime Minister I would make you King, The House of Seal to replace the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    Well, the “ordinary people” who didn’t get kicked in the head might welcome it.

    The history of countries where such behaviour is how the police rolls tell us that when the police is just the biggest street gang, you are living in a shit hole.
    Have you seen the met lately?

    We all would prefer a police service that proactively protects everyone and is regulated. The key though is they do actually have to proactively protect us when we are burgalled, our houses broken in to etc.

    That is not happening so we dont care how well regulated they are because they aren't doing the job people want them to
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    I apologise to PB for finding it odd that the news felt the need to say that the two dead from a two person plane crashing in a field were the people on the plane.

    I should of course have factored in all the immense range of possibilities where a plane crash was bad enough that it killed one of the occupants and someone on the ground, who just happened to be unluckily in that field, but one of the occupants was not killed.

    I shall go and educate myself by watching a plane crash investigation series and then commit seppuku for my error.

    Pedantic bastards.

    You do know PB stands for pedantic betting?

    Edit - also it’s worth pointing out a two seater doesn’t have to have two people in it.
    Also when does a passenger become the co-pilot? There's a grey area there. Potentially anyway.
    There’s a *lot* of case law on that one. Start from the point that a pilot should have a pilot’s licence appropriate for the plane he’s flying.
    Right. But say I'm the single passenger and the pilot has a heart attack. I take over the controls and with some help from ground control I bring her down on one piece. Not impossible on one of my good days. Was I the co-pilot there?
    No, you’re most definitely a passenger, you said so yourself. If you don’t have a licence you’re not a pilot.

    You can pilot something without being *a* pilot


  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Eabhal said:

    Kamala is really working hard for the @rcs1000 endorsement.

    image

    The banhammer is twitching and you've posted THAT?
    Kamala is BRAT
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    Not really no. I’m not rich, employment law doesn’t really pay, and I’ve been wrongfully arrested in Canterbury, Kent for nicking a French tourist’s wallet, and punched by a cop in St Petersburg, Russia, who only let me go when I convinced him I was on the crew of Goldeneye doing post (this was in 1995) and gave him $20. I appreciate that in your ivory tower things are rosy out there but, really, they’re not.
    Arrested for robbing the French?

    When did they make that a crime as opposed to the basis for the award of a knighthood?
    Exactly the point I made.
    If I were Prime Minister I would make you King, The House of Seal to replace the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
    Seriously, making my family the Royal Family would turn even you into a fervent Windsor supporter overnight.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    Not really no. I’m not rich, employment law doesn’t really pay, and I’ve been wrongfully arrested in Canterbury, Kent for nicking a French tourist’s wallet, and punched by a cop in St Petersburg, Russia, who only let me go when I convinced him I was on the crew of Goldeneye doing post (this was in 1995) and gave him $20. I appreciate that in your ivory tower things are rosy out there but, really, they’re not.
    Arrested for robbing the French?

    When did they make that a crime as opposed to the basis for the award of a knighthood?
    Exactly the point I made.
    If I were Prime Minister I would make you King, The House of Seal to replace the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
    Obvs Lord Privy Seal is one of his relatives.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    Not really no. I’m not rich, employment law doesn’t really pay, and I’ve been wrongfully arrested in Canterbury, Kent for nicking a French tourist’s wallet, and punched by a cop in St Petersburg, Russia, who only let me go when I convinced him I was on the crew of Goldeneye doing post (this was in 1995) and gave him $20. I appreciate that in your ivory tower things are rosy out there but, really, they’re not.
    Arrested for robbing the French?

    When did they make that a crime as opposed to the basis for the award of a knighthood?
    Exactly the point I made.
    If I were Prime Minister I would make you King, The House of Seal to replace the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
    You would reward a seal as your power waxed?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    Not really no. I’m not rich, employment law doesn’t really pay, and I’ve been wrongfully arrested in Canterbury, Kent for nicking a French tourist’s wallet, and punched by a cop in St Petersburg, Russia, who only let me go when I convinced him I was on the crew of Goldeneye doing post (this was in 1995) and gave him $20. I appreciate that in your ivory tower things are rosy out there but, really, they’re not.
    Arrested for robbing the French?

    When did they make that a crime as opposed to the basis for the award of a knighthood?
    Exactly the point I made.
    If I were Prime Minister I would make you King, The House of Seal to replace the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
    Obvs Lord Privy Seal is one of his relatives.
    But this would make him the royal seal.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    I apologise to PB for finding it odd that the news felt the need to say that the two dead from a two person plane crashing in a field were the people on the plane.

    I should of course have factored in all the immense range of possibilities where a plane crash was bad enough that it killed one of the occupants and someone on the ground, who just happened to be unluckily in that field, but one of the occupants was not killed.

    I shall go and educate myself by watching a plane crash investigation series and then commit seppuku for my error.

    Pedantic bastards.

    You do know PB stands for pedantic betting?

    Edit - also it’s worth pointing out a two seater doesn’t have to have two people in it.
    Also when does a passenger become the co-pilot? There's a grey area there. Potentially anyway.
    There’s a *lot* of case law on that one. Start from the point that a pilot should have a pilot’s licence appropriate for the plane he’s flying.
    Right. But say I'm the single passenger and the pilot has a heart attack. I take over the controls and with some help from ground control I bring her down on one piece. Not impossible on one of my good days. Was I the co-pilot there?
    No, you’re most definitely a passenger, you said so yourself. If you don’t have a licence you’re not a pilot.
    I see the point you're making but de facto rather than de jure I'd say I've become a pilot - in fact THE pilot - by dint of my actions.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    Not really no. I’m not rich, employment law doesn’t really pay, and I’ve been wrongfully arrested in Canterbury, Kent for nicking a French tourist’s wallet, and punched by a cop in St Petersburg, Russia, who only let me go when I convinced him I was on the crew of Goldeneye doing post (this was in 1995) and gave him $20. I appreciate that in your ivory tower things are rosy out there but, really, they’re not.
    Arrested for robbing the French?

    When did they make that a crime as opposed to the basis for the award of a knighthood?
    Exactly the point I made.
    If I were Prime Minister I would make you King, The House of Seal to replace the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
    Obvs Lord Privy Seal is one of his relatives.
    But this would make him the royal seal.
    There are hoops within hoops in the Seal reign.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    On Topic - "This time last week Joe Biden was the Democratic Party nominee."

    FAKE NEWS - Joe Biden was the PRESUMPTIVE nominee, as his pledged Democratic National Convention delegates accounted for 98.4% of total delegates.

    However, NOBODY has yet been nominated, and won't be UNTIL the actual DNC delegates vote on the nomination, and Kamala Harris receives a majority of those voting.

    Or some one else - but do NOT bet on that!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    Andy Murray's career has not yet finished
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    I apologise to PB for finding it odd that the news felt the need to say that the two dead from a two person plane crashing in a field were the people on the plane.

    I should of course have factored in all the immense range of possibilities where a plane crash was bad enough that it killed one of the occupants and someone on the ground, who just happened to be unluckily in that field, but one of the occupants was not killed.

    I shall go and educate myself by watching a plane crash investigation series and then commit seppuku for my error.

    Pedantic bastards.

    You do know PB stands for pedantic betting?

    Edit - also it’s worth pointing out a two seater doesn’t have to have two people in it.
    Also when does a passenger become the co-pilot? There's a grey area there. Potentially anyway.
    There’s a *lot* of case law on that one. Start from the point that a pilot should have a pilot’s licence appropriate for the plane he’s flying.
    Right. But say I'm the single passenger and the pilot has a heart attack. I take over the controls and with some help from ground control I bring her down on one piece. Not impossible on one of my good days. Was I the co-pilot there?
    No, you’re most definitely a passenger, you said so yourself. If you don’t have a licence you’re not a pilot.
    You can pilot something without being *a* pilot
    Yep, this is the distinction I'm saying makes for a grey area.

    But anyway, no right or wrong here.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    eek said:

    Andy Murray's career has not yet finished

    That was one of the most remarkable turnarounds that I've seen.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited July 28

    On Topic - "This time last week Joe Biden was the Democratic Party nominee."

    FAKE NEWS - Joe Biden was the PRESUMPTIVE nominee, as his pledged Democratic National Convention delegates accounted for 98.4% of total delegates.

    However, NOBODY has yet been nominated, and won't be UNTIL the actual DNC delegates vote on the nomination, and Kamala Harris receives a majority of those voting.

    Or some one else - but do NOT bet on that!

    You’ve just earned PB pedant GOLD!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    I am not suggesting actually that the police should. I am not actually blaming the front line for what happens as policy is made by people higher up at the cressida dick level.

    I am merely pointing out that as a lot of crime such as mugging, shoplifting, car theft etc seems pretty much decriminalised now to the point people wont even bother talking to the police unless they want a crim e number for insurance dont be surprised when a lot of us turn to less official groups that will do the job we expect the police to do and that leads to vigilante groups with no oversight
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited July 28
    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    Andy Murray's career has not yet finished

    That was one of the most remarkable turnarounds that I've seen.
    As you can tell from the odd phrasing as I rapidly changed my sentence - That was 7 points won on the trot - the first 5 were all match points for the Japanese..
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928

    Kamala is really working hard for the @rcs1000 endorsement.

    image

    No one going for my endorsement would choose Pablo Honey.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    Not really no. I’m not rich, employment law doesn’t really pay, and I’ve been wrongfully arrested in Canterbury, Kent for nicking a French tourist’s wallet, and punched by a cop in St Petersburg, Russia, who only let me go when I convinced him I was on the crew of Goldeneye doing post (this was in 1995) and gave him $20. I appreciate that in your ivory tower things are rosy out there but, really, they’re not.
    Arrested for robbing the French?

    When did they make that a crime as opposed to the basis for the award of a knighthood?
    Exactly the point I made.
    If I were Prime Minister I would make you King, The House of Seal to replace the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
    Obvs Lord Privy Seal is one of his relatives.
    But this would make him the royal seal.
    There are hoops within hoops in the Seal reign.
    Rings within rings, you mean.

    Certainly not a Common Seal, anyway.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    .

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    At the risk of going the full Leon, what's going on here ?

    Pete Souza was the Official Chief White House Photographer for the entire Presidency of Barack Obama.

    He took over 2 MILLION photos of Obama, as well as photos of Reagan & Bush.

    Today Musk suspended his account for posting this AP photo.

    https://x.com/daveryder/status/1817378066722685158

    Allegedly 2023 photo sadly
    I wondered about it being something like that.

    If so, a community note explaining that would have dealt with it rather more effectively, surely ? As it is it's sparked off a load of nonsense.
    I can't see Souza having been deliberately misleading.

    Community notes are actually one thing Musk has got right.

    (Edit) Now seems he deleted his own account.
    Jeez. Embarrassing.
    Well it might have been deleted for him. It's ostensibly an AP photo and he and they should know all about EXIF metadata. So I am not completely writing the story off.
    It's possible - but my default assumption is always cockup not conspiracy, even if it's awkward for my 'side'.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Kamala is really working hard for the @rcs1000 endorsement.

    image

    Actually she has pretty good taste in music.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    I am not suggesting actually that the police should. I am not actually blaming the front line for what happens as policy is made by people higher up at the cressida dick level.

    I am merely pointing out that as a lot of crime such as mugging, shoplifting, car theft etc seems pretty much decriminalised now to the point people wont even bother talking to the police unless they want a crim e number for insurance dont be surprised when a lot of us turn to less official groups that will do the job we expect the police to do and that leads to vigilante groups with no oversight
    Kent’s finest were on me like a ton of bricks when some little Frog scrote accused me of nicking his purse. So there’s that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    rcs1000 said:

    Kamala is really working hard for the @rcs1000 endorsement.

    image

    No one going for my endorsement would choose Pablo Honey.
    You can tell from her expression she's not 100% about it.
    Torn between endorsing and critiquing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    Well, the “ordinary people” who didn’t get kicked in the head might welcome it.

    The history of countries where such behaviour is how the police rolls tell us that when the police is just the biggest street gang, you are living in a shit hole.
    Have you seen the met lately?

    We all would prefer a police service that proactively protects everyone and is regulated. The key though is they do actually have to proactively protect us when we are burgalled, our houses broken in to etc.

    That is not happening so we dont care how well regulated they are because they aren't doing the job people want them to
    Hmmmm… it depends on what you mean by well regulated. They need to be trained both not to kick people in the head *and* to detect crime and arrest criminals.

    “A well regulated Police Force, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and arm bears, shall not be infringed”
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    I am not suggesting actually that the police should. I am not actually blaming the front line for what happens as policy is made by people higher up at the cressida dick level.

    I am merely pointing out that as a lot of crime such as mugging, shoplifting, car theft etc seems pretty much decriminalised now to the point people wont even bother talking to the police unless they want a crim e number for insurance dont be surprised when a lot of us turn to less official groups that will do the job we expect the police to do and that leads to vigilante groups with no oversight
    Kent’s finest were on me like a ton of bricks when some little Frog scrote accused me of nicking his purse. So there’s that.
    last time I reported a crime was my car being broken into....I told the police that one of them had broken their watch strap in the break in and it was still in the car. Interest perks....was it an expensive watch? I was asked...no I timex I replied....heres a crime number bye

    Now that to me undermines the whole thing...the watch probably had fingerprints for starters and damn sure if it had been a rolex they would have been round to collect it....just for solving the crime yeah no interest.

    Not bothered talking to the police since about crimes
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    The Police have a difficult job, but not kicking prone suspects in the head is a part of that job.

    In the same way, teachers have a difficult job, but not kicking little shits in the head should be a part of their job too.
    Indeed.

    Although some OFSTED inspectors aren't that little.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Is the Murray patball on iPlayer
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    I am not suggesting actually that the police should. I am not actually blaming the front line for what happens as policy is made by people higher up at the cressida dick level.

    I am merely pointing out that as a lot of crime such as mugging, shoplifting, car theft etc seems pretty much decriminalised now to the point people wont even bother talking to the police unless they want a crim e number for insurance dont be surprised when a lot of us turn to less official groups that will do the job we expect the police to do and that leads to vigilante groups with no oversight
    Kent’s finest were on me like a ton of bricks when some little Frog scrote accused me of nicking his purse. So there’s that.
    last time I reported a crime was my car being broken into....I told the police that one of them had broken their watch strap in the break in and it was still in the car. Interest perks....was it an expensive watch? I was asked...no I timex I replied....heres a crime number bye

    Now that to me undermines the whole thing...the watch probably had fingerprints for starters and damn sure if it had been a rolex they would have been round to collect it....just for solving the crime yeah no interest.

    Not bothered talking to the police since about crimes
    I’m sorry you had a bad experience but I’m not sure how giving the police the power to do whatever they like will help the “ordinary” person. Speaking as a pretty typical ordinary person myself anyway.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    The Police have a difficult job, but not kicking prone suspects in the head is a part of that job.

    In the same way, teachers have a difficult job, but not kicking little shits in the head should be a part of their job too.
    There's a very good book: "Beyond the Call of Duty," by Ben Ando.

    It features true stories about police officers who do brave acts, some of whom are injured. And reading some of the stories, you can see there are times when licking prone suspects *might* be valid. for instance, (from memory) a machete attacker who had been pepper sprayed once, tazed twice (*), in a narrow corridor and still had access to his machete. After attacking and injuring three police officers.

    One thing that intrigues me is that court cases - as might happen against this police officer - take days or weeks to consider events that take minutes or seconds. Minutes or seconds in which a police officer needs to make decisions that could injure other parties - or save others. And if they make the wrong decision, they could end up in jail.

    I've still not seen a video of the entire incident; only ones that start or end too early. It's perfectly possible that what the officer did was a heinous act, or a justifiable act. AIUI it depends on what was 'reasonable'.

    (BTW, I really recommend that book.)

    (*) If I'm remembering the same case, the attacker was wearing thick clothing that prevented the tasers from working, and was high on a drug that made him very aggressive.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    At the risk of going the full Leon, what's going on here ?

    Pete Souza was the Official Chief White House Photographer for the entire Presidency of Barack Obama.

    He took over 2 MILLION photos of Obama, as well as photos of Reagan & Bush.

    Today Musk suspended his account for posting this AP photo.

    https://x.com/daveryder/status/1817378066722685158

    Allegedly 2023 photo sadly
    I wondered about it being something like that.

    If so, a community note explaining that would have dealt with it rather more effectively, surely ? As it is it's sparked off a load of nonsense.
    I can't see Souza having been deliberately misleading.

    Community notes are actually one thing Musk has got right.

    (Edit) Now seems he deleted his own account.
    Jeez. Embarrassing.
    Well it might have been deleted for him. It's ostensibly an AP photo and he and they should know all about EXIF metadata. So I am not completely writing the story off.
    It's possible - but my default assumption is always cockup not conspiracy, even if it's awkward for my 'side'.
    “I want to believe” is a hard one. In this case a serious photographer wanted to believe a conspiracy theory about Trump. So much that he forgot what any photographer should do first with such a photo.

    1) check for EXIF data
    2) google the image
    3) run the photo through an app that checks for modifications

    Total time - maybe 60 seconds
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Bicycle races would benefit from onboard cameras pointing at the cassette
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Gah. The airport car has failed. 2009 Hyundai i30. Have washed both cars and opened its bonnet to top up screen wash. Bloody primary latch won't latch - keeps defaulting to open. Can see the wire pulling below the spring when you pull the release handle, can push the latch down with a screwdriver and the spring is tensioning. It just won't latch...

    Git.

    My car experience of the last month has been awful.

    Car nicked from outside the house at the start of the month, second time in 3 years. Tracked to a place nearby, police don’t bother to look until next morning, by which time it’s gone.

    Claim on insurance and go about quickly finding a replacement as we had a weekend away (this weekend) and a trip to France planned. Bought a replacement used car and got it delivered, finally, on Friday an hour before we set off for our weekend.

    Halfway there it decided the gearbox was going to develop a fault. Limped in to our destination in North Norfolk. Now it’s been towed away but they can’t replace the part for a month. So we’re without a car again.

    Meanwhile the stolen car turns up. Taken to the pound. Insurance were supposed to get it to a body shop to repair the inside where the tracker was ripped out, but they forgot. So it’s still in the pound.
    My wife’s Audi A3 EV has been in for SEVEN MONTHS (this is the fourth time since last September. It occasionally shows a ‘drive system failure error’ and won’t start. But it will,then start and drive as Normal.

    Change the 12v battery, the mechatronics and now they think the problem is with the EV battery. Been waiting for a part signed February !!

    It’s under warranty and we have a 24 Reg version. I put a complaint in monthly.get an update and it continues. Will give it to the end of this month then escalate it.
    Send them a large bill for the No Charge.
    They have given us a brand new car to use while it is being sorted. It had 46 miles on it when we had it. It’s a better model than our current one but it is a pain.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    I am not suggesting actually that the police should. I am not actually blaming the front line for what happens as policy is made by people higher up at the cressida dick level.

    I am merely pointing out that as a lot of crime such as mugging, shoplifting, car theft etc seems pretty much decriminalised now to the point people wont even bother talking to the police unless they want a crim e number for insurance dont be surprised when a lot of us turn to less official groups that will do the job we expect the police to do and that leads to vigilante groups with no oversight
    Kent’s finest were on me like a ton of bricks when some little Frog scrote accused me of nicking his purse. So there’s that.
    last time I reported a crime was my car being broken into....I told the police that one of them had broken their watch strap in the break in and it was still in the car. Interest perks....was it an expensive watch? I was asked...no I timex I replied....heres a crime number bye

    Now that to me undermines the whole thing...the watch probably had fingerprints for starters and damn sure if it had been a rolex they would have been round to collect it....just for solving the crime yeah no interest.

    Not bothered talking to the police since about crimes
    I’m sorry you had a bad experience but I’m not sure how giving the police the power to do whatever they like will help the “ordinary” person. Speaking as a pretty typical ordinary person myself anyway.
    I havent at any point asked for them to be able to do what they want. I merely pointed out as they seem to have deemed crimes such as burglarly shoplifting , car crime etc not worth pursuing then dont expect people to go for extra judicial methods of getting things sorted.

    I want a well regulated police force that actually pursues all crime....not one that deems some crime not worth pursuing. The list of decriminalised crimes these days is getting longer and longer
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    Well, the “ordinary people” who didn’t get kicked in the head might welcome it.

    The history of countries where such behaviour is how the police rolls tell us that when the police is just the biggest street gang, you are living in a shit hole.
    Have you seen the met lately?

    We all would prefer a police service that proactively protects everyone and is regulated. The key though is they do actually have to proactively protect us when we are burgalled, our houses broken in to etc.

    That is not happening so we dont care how well regulated they are because they aren't doing the job people want them to
    Hmmmm… it depends on what you mean by well regulated. They need to be trained both not to kick people in the head *and* to detect crime and arrest criminals.

    “A well regulated Police Force, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and arm bears, shall not be infringed”
    Better than the average policeman those bears?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    Andy Murray's career has not yet finished

    That was one of the most remarkable turnarounds that I've seen.
    As you can tell from the odd phrasing as I rapidly changed my sentence - That was 7 points won on the trot - the first 5 were all match points for the Japanese..
    The joy of the tennis scoring system

    Absolute margin of points doesn't matter. What matters is in what order they are scored.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    rcs1000 said:

    Kamala is really working hard for the @rcs1000 endorsement.

    image

    No one going for my endorsement would choose Pablo Honey.
    Is she choosing it to play, but asking someone if she should throw it at the zombies?

    (Obligatory Shaun of the Dead reference...)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Scott_xP said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    Andy Murray's career has not yet finished

    That was one of the most remarkable turnarounds that I've seen.
    As you can tell from the odd phrasing as I rapidly changed my sentence - That was 7 points won on the trot - the first 5 were all match points for the Japanese..
    The joy of the tennis scoring system

    Absolute margin of points doesn't matter. What matters is in what order they are scored.
    You wouldn't be in favour of changing to PR?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    I am not suggesting actually that the police should. I am not actually blaming the front line for what happens as policy is made by people higher up at the cressida dick level.

    I am merely pointing out that as a lot of crime such as mugging, shoplifting, car theft etc seems pretty much decriminalised now to the point people wont even bother talking to the police unless they want a crim e number for insurance dont be surprised when a lot of us turn to less official groups that will do the job we expect the police to do and that leads to vigilante groups with no oversight
    Kent’s finest were on me like a ton of bricks when some little Frog scrote accused me of nicking his purse. So there’s that.
    last time I reported a crime was my car being broken into....I told the police that one of them had broken their watch strap in the break in and it was still in the car. Interest perks....was it an expensive watch? I was asked...no I timex I replied....heres a crime number bye

    Now that to me undermines the whole thing...the watch probably had fingerprints for starters and damn sure if it had been a rolex they would have been round to collect it....just for solving the crime yeah no interest.

    Not bothered talking to the police since about crimes
    I’m sorry you had a bad experience but I’m not sure how giving the police the power to do whatever they like will help the “ordinary” person. Speaking as a pretty typical ordinary person myself anyway.
    I havent at any point asked for them to be able to do what they want. I merely pointed out as they seem to have deemed crimes such as burglarly shoplifting , car crime etc not worth pursuing then dont expect people to go for extra judicial methods of getting things sorted.

    I want a well regulated police force that actually pursues all crime....not one that deems some crime not worth pursuing. The list of decriminalised crimes these days is getting longer and longer
    Whenever I read your posts I imagine them spoken in the voice of Eeyore
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,317
    Leon said:

    Who’d be a copper with PB’s pathetic army of chaise-longue lawyers second guessing everything you do in a moment of extreme violence against you, in a truly dangerous context

    It’s decadent and ridiculous. No one will ever join the police. Or if they do they won’t tackle anyone from an ethnic minority for fear of being seen as racist - a mindset which led, we now know, to the Manchester Arena bombing

    With things like this, they can be observed as a circuit. The idea that the police should do their job without inflicting any violence has to be seen through to it's conclusion before things start to go in a different direction. Maybe this is actually a turning point, as in the people who were protesting about 'police violence' now don't look very smart.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,828
    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    I am not suggesting actually that the police should. I am not actually blaming the front line for what happens as policy is made by people higher up at the cressida dick level.

    I am merely pointing out that as a lot of crime such as mugging, shoplifting, car theft etc seems pretty much decriminalised now to the point people wont even bother talking to the police unless they want a crim e number for insurance dont be surprised when a lot of us turn to less official groups that will do the job we expect the police to do and that leads to vigilante groups with no oversight
    Kent’s finest were on me like a ton of bricks when some little Frog scrote accused me of nicking his purse. So there’s that.
    last time I reported a crime was my car being broken into....I told the police that one of them had broken their watch strap in the break in and it was still in the car. Interest perks....was it an expensive watch? I was asked...no I timex I replied....heres a crime number bye

    Now that to me undermines the whole thing...the watch probably had fingerprints for starters and damn sure if it had been a rolex they would have been round to collect it....just for solving the crime yeah no interest.

    Not bothered talking to the police since about crimes
    I’m sorry you had a bad experience but I’m not sure how giving the police the power to do whatever they like will help the “ordinary” person. Speaking as a pretty typical ordinary person myself anyway.
    I havent at any point asked for them to be able to do what they want. I merely pointed out as they seem to have deemed crimes such as burglarly shoplifting , car crime etc not worth pursuing then dont expect people to go for extra judicial methods of getting things sorted.

    I want a well regulated police force that actually pursues all crime....not one that deems some crime not worth pursuing. The list of decriminalised crimes these days is getting longer and longer
    But this wasn't an aggrieved member of the public seeking extra judicial retribution.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    rcs1000 said:

    Kamala is really working hard for the @rcs1000 endorsement.

    image

    No one going for my endorsement would choose Pablo Honey.
    The expression on her face says "This is shite, isn't it..."
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    I am not suggesting actually that the police should. I am not actually blaming the front line for what happens as policy is made by people higher up at the cressida dick level.

    I am merely pointing out that as a lot of crime such as mugging, shoplifting, car theft etc seems pretty much decriminalised now to the point people wont even bother talking to the police unless they want a crim e number for insurance dont be surprised when a lot of us turn to less official groups that will do the job we expect the police to do and that leads to vigilante groups with no oversight
    Kent’s finest were on me like a ton of bricks when some little Frog scrote accused me of nicking his purse. So there’s that.
    last time I reported a crime was my car being broken into....I told the police that one of them had broken their watch strap in the break in and it was still in the car. Interest perks....was it an expensive watch? I was asked...no I timex I replied....heres a crime number bye

    Now that to me undermines the whole thing...the watch probably had fingerprints for starters and damn sure if it had been a rolex they would have been round to collect it....just for solving the crime yeah no interest.

    Not bothered talking to the police since about crimes
    I’m sorry you had a bad experience but I’m not sure how giving the police the power to do whatever they like will help the “ordinary” person. Speaking as a pretty typical ordinary person myself anyway.
    I havent at any point asked for them to be able to do what they want. I merely pointed out as they seem to have deemed crimes such as burglarly shoplifting , car crime etc not worth pursuing then dont expect people to go for extra judicial methods of getting things sorted.

    I want a well regulated police force that actually pursues all crime....not one that deems some crime not worth pursuing. The list of decriminalised crimes these days is getting longer and longer
    Whenever I read your posts I imagine them spoken in the voice of Eeyore
    I am sorry it distresses you that I think our justice system is failing because criminals know they can get away with low level crime as no one bothers to investigate but I don't think its a point of view that isn't supported by everyday facts
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    . . . reckon that PBers can REALLY relate to the following , , ,

    AP (via Seattle Times) - What’s in a name? Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance has had many of them

    When it comes to Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance’s name, it’s complicated.

    The senator from Ohio introduced himself to the world in 2016 when he published his bestselling memoir, “Hillbilly Elegy,” under the name J.D. Vance — “like jay-dot-dee-dot,” he wrote, short for James David. In the book, he explained that this was not the first iteration of his name. Nor would it be the last.

    Over the course of his 39 years, Vance’s first, middle and last names have all been altered in one way or another. As Vance is being introduced to voters across the country as Donald Trump’s new running mate, his name has been the source of both curiosity and questions — including why he no longer uses periods in JD.

    He was born James Donald Bowman in Middletown, Ohio, on Aug. 2, 1984, his middle and last names the same as his biological father, Donald Bowman. His parents split up “around the time I started walking,” he writes. When he was about 6, his mother, Beverly, married for the third time. He was adopted by his new stepfather, Robert Hamel, and his mother renamed him James David Hamel. . . .

    Vance spent more than two decades as James David “J.D.” Hamel. It’s the name by which he graduated from Middletown High School, served in Iraq as a U.S. Marine (officially, Cpl. James D. Hamel), earned a political science degree at The Ohio State University and blogged his ruminations as a 26-year-old student at Yale Law School . . . .

    But the situation gnawed at him, particularly after his mother and adoptive father divorced.

    “I shared a name with no one I really cared about (which bothered me already), and with Bob gone, explaining why my name was J.D. Hamel would require a few additional awkward moments,” he writes in “Hillbilly Elegy.” . . .

    So he decided to change his name again, to Vance — the last name of his beloved Mamaw, the grandmother who raised him. . . . laiming the Vance name also served to tie JD more clearly to what he writes was “hillbilly royalty” on his grandfather’s side not long before he would release a book opining on hillbilly culture. . . .

    When Vance jumped into politics in July 2021, he had removed the periods from J.D. He’d often used this shorthand, JD, over his lifetime. . . .

    SSI - Note that Ulysses S. Grant was named at birth Hiram Ulysses Grant, but that got changed by when the congressman who nominated him to West Point made a mistake on the paperwork - and it stuck.

    Gerald Rudolph Ford, Jr was named at birth Leslie Lynch King, Jr. however his father and mother separated a few weeks afterward; they ended up divorcing, and she married a man named Gerald Rudolph Ford, Sr. who adopted her son as his own. Thus Gerry Ford was "Jr," twice over.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    I am not suggesting actually that the police should. I am not actually blaming the front line for what happens as policy is made by people higher up at the cressida dick level.

    I am merely pointing out that as a lot of crime such as mugging, shoplifting, car theft etc seems pretty much decriminalised now to the point people wont even bother talking to the police unless they want a crim e number for insurance dont be surprised when a lot of us turn to less official groups that will do the job we expect the police to do and that leads to vigilante groups with no oversight
    Kent’s finest were on me like a ton of bricks when some little Frog scrote accused me of nicking his purse. So there’s that.
    last time I reported a crime was my car being broken into....I told the police that one of them had broken their watch strap in the break in and it was still in the car. Interest perks....was it an expensive watch? I was asked...no I timex I replied....heres a crime number bye

    Now that to me undermines the whole thing...the watch probably had fingerprints for starters and damn sure if it had been a rolex they would have been round to collect it....just for solving the crime yeah no interest.

    Not bothered talking to the police since about crimes
    I’m sorry you had a bad experience but I’m not sure how giving the police the power to do whatever they like will help the “ordinary” person. Speaking as a pretty typical ordinary person myself anyway.
    I havent at any point asked for them to be able to do what they want. I merely pointed out as they seem to have deemed crimes such as burglarly shoplifting , car crime etc not worth pursuing then dont expect people to go for extra judicial methods of getting things sorted.

    I want a well regulated police force that actually pursues all crime....not one that deems some crime not worth pursuing. The list of decriminalised crimes these days is getting longer and longer
    But this wasn't an aggrieved member of the public seeking extra judicial retribution.
    I wasn't commenting on the manchester incident I was talking about the justice system in general and why ordinary people are losing confidence that when something happens like a car theft they feel ringing the police is pointless except to get a crime number
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Kamala is really working hard for the @rcs1000 endorsement.

    image

    No one going for my endorsement would choose Pablo Honey.
    The expression on her face says "This is shite, isn't it..."
    You (or rather she) referring to the photo-shop job?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    ...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    The Police have a difficult job, but not kicking prone suspects in the head is a part of that job.

    In the same way, teachers have a difficult job, but not kicking little shits in the head should be a part of their job too.
    Indeed.

    Although some OFSTED inspectors aren't that little.
    Am I to understand that there is opprobrium attached to giving an OFSTED inspector a shoeing?

    Surely that is classed as defending the children in your care?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Kamala is really working hard for the @rcs1000 endorsement.

    image

    No one going for my endorsement would choose Pablo Honey.
    The expression on her face says "This is shite, isn't it..."
    "I asked for Radiohead, and they gave me this".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Omnium said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    Well, the “ordinary people” who didn’t get kicked in the head might welcome it.

    The history of countries where such behaviour is how the police rolls tell us that when the police is just the biggest street gang, you are living in a shit hole.
    Have you seen the met lately?

    We all would prefer a police service that proactively protects everyone and is regulated. The key though is they do actually have to proactively protect us when we are burgalled, our houses broken in to etc.

    That is not happening so we dont care how well regulated they are because they aren't doing the job people want them to
    Hmmmm… it depends on what you mean by well regulated. They need to be trained both not to kick people in the head *and* to detect crime and arrest criminals.

    “A well regulated Police Force, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and arm bears, shall not be infringed”
    Better than the average policeman those bears?
    Female friendly police force?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,317
    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 433
    edited July 28
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLN2544fmTE

    I've thrown £16 at amazon for Roy's latest book - in part because what he says is interesting and highly relevant. In part because his heavily accented English on YouTube is making my ears hurt.

    I may or may not grace this site with a review.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    Perhaps JD Vance has so little respect for step-parents like Kamala Harris, because he appears to have no respect (maybe with good reason) for his own ex-step-father?

    Personally am sympathetic (mostly) regarding JDV's moniker-bending, based on his family history. And reckon that most Americans will tend the same way (mostly). Hardly unknown in USA today, or in the past. Did Samuel Langhorne Clemens no harm!

    However, sheer frequency of self-shifting with the 2024 GOP VP nominee, is rather head-spinning, and may contribute to his somewhat weird vibe for at least some sections of the electorate, such as (perhaps) older voters.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,644
    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,708

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    DougSeal said:

    tlg86 said:

    The reason why the police kicking a prone person in the head is the death of Dalian Atkinson at the hands of the police is so sickening, see the death and aftermath section.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalian_Atkinson#Personal_life

    If the person kicked had died or suffered a serious injury, then I think that's a very different conversation.
    How the fuck do you know whether your kick to the head will result in the recipient’s serious injury or not? I can only assume that you’ve recently been kicked in the head yourself. In any event I understand that the recipient here may have undergone serious injury. He was a wrongun but those who think the police should have carte blanche should think seriously about the world they are advocating.
    most ordinary people that aren't rich would welcome it frankly....we get robbed the police will give us a crime number but not turn up, same for being assaulted, having you car stolen....most would prefer the police to go in harder. I suspect you being in the justice system get better service from them.
    There's a balance here: being a policeman is a difficult job. And we need to respect that, and to make sure that they know that we have their back in difficult situations.

    But we also have to remember that the police have powers that we do not have, and that it is not their job to enact punishment.
    The Police have a difficult job, but not kicking prone suspects in the head is a part of that job.

    In the same way, teachers have a difficult job, but not kicking little shits in the head should be a part of their job too.
    I think we ought to take into account that the kick occurred AFTER the officer had been violently attacked and the man who was kicked does not appear to have suffered an injury as serious as the one he meted out.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,707
    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
    ...

    image
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited July 28
    ohnotnow said:

    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
    ...

    image
    Backing the police officer is fine.

    But both of them going in feet first, before we knew any more than the first video where the policemen kicked his head in, is very concerning.

    It should have been "We need to know all the information before making any judgement, and the people attacking the police need to STFU until we do know more." Instead they reduced themselves to the level of the trolling lawyer, and intensified rather than defused tension.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,183
    edited July 28

    . . . reckon that PBers can REALLY relate to the following , , ,

    AP (via Seattle Times) - What’s in a name? Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance has had many of them

    When it comes to Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance’s name, it’s complicated.

    The senator from Ohio introduced himself to the world in 2016 when he published his bestselling memoir, “Hillbilly Elegy,” under the name J.D. Vance — “like jay-dot-dee-dot,” he wrote, short for James David. In the book, he explained that this was not the first iteration of his name. Nor would it be the last.

    Over the course of his 39 years, Vance’s first, middle and last names have all been altered in one way or another. As Vance is being introduced to voters across the country as Donald Trump’s new running mate, his name has been the source of both curiosity and questions — including why he no longer uses periods in JD.

    He was born James Donald Bowman in Middletown, Ohio, on Aug. 2, 1984, his middle and last names the same as his biological father, Donald Bowman. His parents split up “around the time I started walking,” he writes. When he was about 6, his mother, Beverly, married for the third time. He was adopted by his new stepfather, Robert Hamel, and his mother renamed him James David Hamel. . . .

    Vance spent more than two decades as James David “J.D.” Hamel. It’s the name by which he graduated from Middletown High School, served in Iraq as a U.S. Marine (officially, Cpl. James D. Hamel), earned a political science degree at The Ohio State University and blogged his ruminations as a 26-year-old student at Yale Law School . . . .

    But the situation gnawed at him, particularly after his mother and adoptive father divorced.

    “I shared a name with no one I really cared about (which bothered me already), and with Bob gone, explaining why my name was J.D. Hamel would require a few additional awkward moments,” he writes in “Hillbilly Elegy.” . . .

    So he decided to change his name again, to Vance — the last name of his beloved Mamaw, the grandmother who raised him. . . . laiming the Vance name also served to tie JD more clearly to what he writes was “hillbilly royalty” on his grandfather’s side not long before he would release a book opining on hillbilly culture. . . .

    When Vance jumped into politics in July 2021, he had removed the periods from J.D. He’d often used this shorthand, JD, over his lifetime. . . .

    SSI - Note that Ulysses S. Grant was named at birth Hiram Ulysses Grant, but that got changed by when the congressman who nominated him to West Point made a mistake on the paperwork - and it stuck.

    Gerald Rudolph Ford, Jr was named at birth Leslie Lynch King, Jr. however his father and mother separated a few weeks afterward; they ended up divorcing, and she married a man named Gerald Rudolph Ford, Sr. who adopted her son as his own. Thus Gerry Ford was "Jr," twice over.

    There's a suggestion on this side of the pond that parents should have an additional vote for each of their children. Your comment neatly encapsulates why this would be a nightmare to administer.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
    ...

    image
    Backing the police officer is fine.

    But both of them going in feet first, before we knew any more than the first video where the policemen kicked his head in, is very concerning.

    It should have been "we need to know all the information before making any judgement, and the people attacking the police need to STFU."
    We 'knew' that three police officers were injured, including a policewoman who suffered a broken nose. That indicates there was a story well before that first video, and that the first video did not show the full story. In fact, it might even have been trimmed to only show one side.

    Of course, if you are an ex-'journalist' now MP, you say that the police 'say' that the police were injured, whilst talking the other side as gospel...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    While yours truly disagrees with some aspects of what the newly banned were posting, concur with (some) other PBers that banning them was perhaps, maybe, possibly a tad excessive.

    And urge they be un-banned at earliest opportunity. If not sooner.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Great Olympic story.

    You probably know the start of this Olympic story, but do you know how it finished?

    This photo is of Eric Moussambani, aka 'Eric the Eel' from Equatorial Guinea, competing in the 100m Freestyle event at the Sydney 2000 Olympics, alone...

    https://x.com/Aaronsmith333/status/1817431315916165475
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    boulay said:

    Seriously, just checked back in and seen Leon and Blanche banned. I honestly couldn’t see anything super offensive. We are a robust intelligent bunch of people (excluding myself of course)who frankly need to be challenged and hear crap we don’t agree with.

    My favourite don at school always made it clear that if you can’t listen to things you don’t agree with then your own view is worth nothing. He did however stand as Lib Dem Mp for Winchester many times and never got elected but, he was a fine man, wrong party at the time.

    This site thrives on all the views. I didn’t see anything racist, overly nasty, and frankly we tolerate some pretty potentially sexist stuff here.

    Let everyone counter arguments and not block people. We have no other travel writers, postmen. They are a loss for a bit of a Sunday pissy rant.

    Are they banned, as in permanently (subject to apologies) or temporarily, as in until Monday or miss two topics or something like that?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Cookie said:

    Banning Leon and Blanche for (I think?) sympathising with the policeman in this instance seems a bit harsh. I can well see you might disagree with their (and my) position on this, but I don't think they were saying the unsayable. It's not as if they went the full Rod Crosby.

    Is that what happened? How odd.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,707

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    At the risk of going the full Leon, what's going on here ?

    Pete Souza was the Official Chief White House Photographer for the entire Presidency of Barack Obama.

    He took over 2 MILLION photos of Obama, as well as photos of Reagan & Bush.

    Today Musk suspended his account for posting this AP photo.

    https://x.com/daveryder/status/1817378066722685158

    Allegedly 2023 photo sadly
    I wondered about it being something like that.

    If so, a community note explaining that would have dealt with it rather more effectively, surely ? As it is it's sparked off a load of nonsense.
    I can't see Souza having been deliberately misleading.

    Community notes are actually one thing Musk has got right.

    (Edit) Now seems he deleted his own account.
    Jeez. Embarrassing.
    Well it might have been deleted for him. It's ostensibly an AP photo and he and they should know all about EXIF metadata. So I am not completely writing the story off.
    It's possible - but my default assumption is always cockup not conspiracy, even if it's awkward for my 'side'.
    “I want to believe” is a hard one. In this case a serious photographer wanted to believe a conspiracy theory about Trump. So much that he forgot what any photographer should do first with such a photo.

    1) check for EXIF data
    2) google the image
    3) run the photo through an app that checks for modifications

    Total time - maybe 60 seconds
    Quite a few (most?) social media sites strip the metadata/exif info from uploaded content. 'For Privacy'. And also, as a sad consequence, being able to claim they didn't know who the copyright holder was if it was in there.

    :: sad social media trombone noises ::

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,424

    While yours truly disagrees with some aspects of what the newly banned were posting, concur with (some) other PBers that banning them was perhaps, maybe, possibly a tad excessive.

    And urge they be un-banned at earliest opportunity. If not sooner.

    I suspect that the offending posts have been wiped which makes the ban appear a bit harsh.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    ohnotnow said:

    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
    ...

    image
    What's the allusion/quote, please?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,302
    Cookie said:

    Banning Leon and Blanche for (I think?) sympathising with the policeman in this instance seems a bit harsh. I can well see you might disagree with their (and my) position on this, but I don't think they were saying the unsayable. It's not as if they went the full Rod Crosby.

    See my post at 7.04pm.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549

    . . . reckon that PBers can REALLY relate to the following , , ,

    AP (via Seattle Times) - What’s in a name? Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance has had many of them

    When it comes to Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance’s name, it’s complicated.

    The senator from Ohio introduced himself to the world in 2016 when he published his bestselling memoir, “Hillbilly Elegy,” under the name J.D. Vance — “like jay-dot-dee-dot,” he wrote, short for James David. In the book, he explained that this was not the first iteration of his name. Nor would it be the last.

    Over the course of his 39 years, Vance’s first, middle and last names have all been altered in one way or another. As Vance is being introduced to voters across the country as Donald Trump’s new running mate, his name has been the source of both curiosity and questions — including why he no longer uses periods in JD.

    He was born James Donald Bowman in Middletown, Ohio, on Aug. 2, 1984, his middle and last names the same as his biological father, Donald Bowman. His parents split up “around the time I started walking,” he writes. When he was about 6, his mother, Beverly, married for the third time. He was adopted by his new stepfather, Robert Hamel, and his mother renamed him James David Hamel. . . .

    Vance spent more than two decades as James David “J.D.” Hamel. It’s the name by which he graduated from Middletown High School, served in Iraq as a U.S. Marine (officially, Cpl. James D. Hamel), earned a political science degree at The Ohio State University and blogged his ruminations as a 26-year-old student at Yale Law School . . . .

    But the situation gnawed at him, particularly after his mother and adoptive father divorced.

    “I shared a name with no one I really cared about (which bothered me already), and with Bob gone, explaining why my name was J.D. Hamel would require a few additional awkward moments,” he writes in “Hillbilly Elegy.” . . .

    So he decided to change his name again, to Vance — the last name of his beloved Mamaw, the grandmother who raised him. . . . laiming the Vance name also served to tie JD more clearly to what he writes was “hillbilly royalty” on his grandfather’s side not long before he would release a book opining on hillbilly culture. . . .

    When Vance jumped into politics in July 2021, he had removed the periods from J.D. He’d often used this shorthand, JD, over his lifetime. . . .

    SSI - Note that Ulysses S. Grant was named at birth Hiram Ulysses Grant, but that got changed by when the congressman who nominated him to West Point made a mistake on the paperwork - and it stuck.

    Gerald Rudolph Ford, Jr was named at birth Leslie Lynch King, Jr. however his father and mother separated a few weeks afterward; they ended up divorcing, and she married a man named Gerald Rudolph Ford, Sr. who adopted her son as his own. Thus Gerry Ford was "Jr," twice over.

    There's a suggestion on this side of the pond that parents should have an additional vote for each of their children. Your comment neatly encapsulates why this would be a nightmare to administer.
    JD Vance (or perhaps J.D. Vance) is on record in favor of additional votes for parents, though IIRC unspecified if it would be just +1, or one for each child.

    Either way, IMHO idea is jack-ass-ery.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,707
    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
    ...

    image
    Backing the police officer is fine.

    But both of them going in feet first, before we knew any more than the first video where the policemen kicked his head in, is very concerning.

    It should have been "We need to know all the information before making any judgement, and the people attacking the police need to STFU until we do know more." Instead they reduced themselves to the level of the trolling lawyer, and intensified rather than defused tension.
    Sorry - I was more hoping to make the point that giving the police a free pass (even for a bit) based on what a politician of the day thinks is possibly not the route we want to go down.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,183
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    I apologise to PB for finding it odd that the news felt the need to say that the two dead from a two person plane crashing in a field were the people on the plane.

    I should of course have factored in all the immense range of possibilities where a plane crash was bad enough that it killed one of the occupants and someone on the ground, who just happened to be unluckily in that field, but one of the occupants was not killed.

    I shall go and educate myself by watching a plane crash investigation series and then commit seppuku for my error.

    Pedantic bastards.

    You do know PB stands for pedantic betting?

    Edit - also it’s worth pointing out a two seater doesn’t have to have two people in it.
    Also when does a passenger become the co-pilot? There's a grey area there. Potentially anyway.
    There’s a *lot* of case law on that one. Start from the point that a pilot should have a pilot’s licence appropriate for the plane he’s flying.
    Right. But say I'm the single passenger and the pilot has a heart attack. I take over the controls and with some help from ground control I bring her down on one piece. Not impossible on one of my good days. Was I the co-pilot there?
    No, you’re most definitely a passenger, you said so yourself. If you don’t have a licence you’re not a pilot.
    You can pilot something without being *a* pilot
    Yep, this is the distinction I'm saying makes for a grey area.

    But anyway, no right or wrong here.
    Required to sit in the co-pilot's seat of a small seaplane a few years ago as my companions were even more scared than I was. On our approach the pilot aimed for a convenient landmark - a massive tower crane looming over the 'landing' site. At the last second, as I allayed my fears by counting the rivets on the crane, he suddenly banked away at 90° and executed a perfect splash down. Not too sure I could have managed that if called upon.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    Cookie said:

    Banning Leon and Blanche for (I think?) sympathising with the policeman in this instance seems a bit harsh. I can well see you might disagree with their (and my) position on this, but I don't think they were saying the unsayable. It's not as if they went the full Rod Crosby.

    See my post at 7.04pm.
    The armed police are armed for a reason - that is, they are on high alert for terrorists. If we agree we have armed police, surely we agree there should be circumstances in whch they should shoot people dead?
    You might reasonably argue that this does not meet that threshold. But I don't think it unreasonable to consider that it might.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412

    Cookie said:

    Banning Leon and Blanche for (I think?) sympathising with the policeman in this instance seems a bit harsh. I can well see you might disagree with their (and my) position on this, but I don't think they were saying the unsayable. It's not as if they went the full Rod Crosby.

    See my post at 7.04pm.
    Do you really think, bearing in mind the historical hyperbole, that was a call to shoot someone? Is it not just bollocks akin to the joy of banging stepmoms that accepted as fun and off the cuff repartee?

    Neither of them said anything worse than me, during the Russian invasion of Ukraine calling for the Russian leaders kids to be killed, both are for various reasons good posters here. Sometimes you will agree, sometimes cringe, sometimes hate, sometimes laugh. But tonight was nothing super bad.

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,707
    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
    ...

    image
    What's the allusion/quote, please?
    'Dim' from "A Clockwork Orange". One of the original thugs at the start of the novel (or film in this case). Towards the end of the film we discover is now a policeman (of the brutal kind). Beats up the main protagonist who is then 'redeemed' by the home secretary who brought it all about.

    A somewhat more brutal version of being shocked that there is gambling in this establishment, and, what's that? My winnings?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549

    Seriously, Leon and Blanche banned? Come on mods, let's not have this site a cancel culture.

    Banning from PB is entirely up to OGH's minions, that is monitors.

    "Leon" & etc. has been banned more times than some PBers have eaten toad-in-the-hole. NOT a permanent condition, so far.

    Personally am adverse to banning EXCEPT in the case of pitiful Putin-Bots. At least ones who ain't established PBers already.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    I see the eurofanatics are using (frequently wrong) IMF projections to make a fresh push on rejoining the EU without a mandate.

    Entirely ignoring the fact that the UK has OUTGROWN the EU since we left EU structures.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
    ...

    image
    Backing the police officer is fine.

    But both of them going in feet first, before we knew any more than the first video where the policemen kicked his head in, is very concerning.

    It should have been "we need to know all the information before making any judgement, and the people attacking the police need to STFU."
    We 'knew' that three police officers were injured, including a policewoman who suffered a broken nose. That indicates there was a story well before that first video, and that the first video did not show the full story. In fact, it might even have been trimmed to only show one side.

    Of course, if you are an ex-'journalist' now MP, you say that the police 'say' that the police were injured, whilst talking the other side as gospel...
    I'd say it probably was trimmed; all we had as far as I could see was a police officer kicking the head and stamping on a man who was under control.

    It concerns me that two MPs engaged in heaping strong praise on that policeman at that point. At that point it was a dog whistle, imo.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    No threepeaty.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    Adam Peaty beaten into Silver.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794
    Cookie said:

    Banning Leon and Blanche for (I think?) sympathising with the policeman in this instance seems a bit harsh. I can well see you might disagree with their (and my) position on this, but I don't think they were saying the unsayable. It's not as if they went the full Rod Crosby.

    Whilst I agree with you, I doubt it's permanent.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,302
    tlg86 said:

    No threepeaty.

    Any chance of the winner getting George Russell'd?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,205
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
    ...

    image
    Backing the police officer is fine.

    But both of them going in feet first, before we knew any more than the first video where the policemen kicked his head in, is very concerning.

    It should have been "we need to know all the information before making any judgement, and the people attacking the police need to STFU."
    We 'knew' that three police officers were injured, including a policewoman who suffered a broken nose. That indicates there was a story well before that first video, and that the first video did not show the full story. In fact, it might even have been trimmed to only show one side.

    Of course, if you are an ex-'journalist' now MP, you say that the police 'say' that the police were injured, whilst talking the other side as gospel...
    I'd say it probably was trimmed; all we had as far as I could see was a police officer kicking the head and stamping on a man who was under control.

    It concerns me that two MPs engaged in heaping strong praise on that policeman at that point. At that point it was a dog whistle, imo.
    And it also concerns me that other MPs seem to have jumped to the defence of the guy on the ground, when the facts were not fully known.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    To change the subject for a moment, look at this lovely picture from the Ingleton waterfall trail that I took today.
    It sticks in the craw a bit to pay a fee to go for a walk. But actually, it is well worth it. Just treat it as a very expen̈sive car park.
    An excess of beauty.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    tlg86 said:

    No threepeaty.

    Any chance of the winner getting George Russell'd?
    Not enough ballast in his trunks?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,302
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    No threepeaty.

    Any chance of the winner getting George Russell'd?
    Not enough ballast in his trunks?
    Here's hoping.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    tlg86 said:

    No threepeaty.

    Any chance of the winner getting George Russell'd?
    Unlikely to have an underweight car in the breaststroke.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,895

    tlg86 said:

    No threepeaty.

    Any chance of the winner getting George Russell'd?
    They've made a joke of a pool. It's not actually to regulations.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,549
    edited July 28

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    I apologise to PB for finding it odd that the news felt the need to say that the two dead from a two person plane crashing in a field were the people on the plane.

    I should of course have factored in all the immense range of possibilities where a plane crash was bad enough that it killed one of the occupants and someone on the ground, who just happened to be unluckily in that field, but one of the occupants was not killed.

    I shall go and educate myself by watching a plane crash investigation series and then commit seppuku for my error.

    Pedantic bastards.

    You do know PB stands for pedantic betting?

    Edit - also it’s worth pointing out a two seater doesn’t have to have two people in it.
    Also when does a passenger become the co-pilot? There's a grey area there. Potentially anyway.
    There’s a *lot* of case law on that one. Start from the point that a pilot should have a pilot’s licence appropriate for the plane he’s flying.
    Right. But say I'm the single passenger and the pilot has a heart attack. I take over the controls and with some help from ground control I bring her down on one piece. Not impossible on one of my good days. Was I the co-pilot there?
    No, you’re most definitely a passenger, you said so yourself. If you don’t have a licence you’re not a pilot.
    You can pilot something without being *a* pilot
    Yep, this is the distinction I'm saying makes for a grey area.

    But anyway, no right or wrong here.
    Required to sit in the co-pilot's seat of a small seaplane a few years ago as my companions were even more scared than I was. On our approach the pilot aimed for a convenient landmark - a massive tower crane looming over the 'landing' site. At the last second, as I allayed my fears by counting the rivets on the crane, he suddenly banked away at 90° and executed a perfect splash down. Not too sure I could have managed that if called upon.
    Had quite similar experience years ago, on small seaplane flying to Seattle from Victoria, with landing in Lake Union in the middle of the city.

    We came in level with the top of the Space Needle, but no as close as you were to the crane. It was a beautiful summer day, and down below the lake was chock-full of boats large and (mostly) small.

    How the heck is the pilot gonna land down there?, I thought. Soon found out, as he suddenly (but very smoothly) dived toward the water and executed a perfect landing with zero difficulty.

    ADDENDUM - Was designated to sit in front next to pilot, due to my sheer mass. Loved it, was thrilling NOT scary for me.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
    ...

    image
    Backing the police officer is fine.

    But both of them going in feet first, before we knew any more than the first video where the policemen kicked his head in, is very concerning.

    It should have been "we need to know all the information before making any judgement, and the people attacking the police need to STFU."
    We 'knew' that three police officers were injured, including a policewoman who suffered a broken nose. That indicates there was a story well before that first video, and that the first video did not show the full story. In fact, it might even have been trimmed to only show one side.

    Of course, if you are an ex-'journalist' now MP, you say that the police 'say' that the police were injured, whilst talking the other side as gospel...
    I'd say it probably was trimmed; all we had as far as I could see was a police officer kicking the head and stamping on a man who was under control.

    It concerns me that two MPs engaged in heaping strong praise on that policeman at that point. At that point it was a dog whistle, imo.
    And it also concerns me that other MPs seem to have jumped to the defence of the guy on the ground, when the facts were not fully known.
    Again, it's worth crediting Burnham for his remarkable.refusal to jump to conclusions.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,488
    edited July 28
    WillG said:

    I see the eurofanatics are using (frequently wrong) IMF projections to make a fresh push on rejoining the EU without a mandate.

    Entirely ignoring the fact that the UK has OUTGROWN the EU since we left EU structures.

    Why bother? We could beat the EU and G7 on GDP and GDP per capita and they'd never concede the point - they'd just do the puppydog eyes and start banging on about how the real tragedy is the cultural effects.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    ohnotnow said:

    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
    ...

    image
    What's the allusion/quote, please?
    'Dim' from "A Clockwork Orange". One of the original thugs at the start of the novel (or film in this case). Towards the end of the film we discover is now a policeman (of the brutal kind). Beats up the main protagonist who is then 'redeemed' by the home secretary who brought it all about.

    A somewhat more brutal version of being shocked that there is gambling in this establishment, and, what's that? My winnings?
    Ah, thank you - I'm much more familiar with the novel than the film (though have the DVD).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    With the 'police brutality' story, I saw that Anderson and Tice are on the case backing the police officer involved. Even if you don't agree with them it is surely good that you can have politicians that say what a lot of people think. That is how democracy is supposed to be.

    Of course it's good that you can have it, but having it is another thing altogether.
    ...

    image
    Backing the police officer is fine.

    But both of them going in feet first, before we knew any more than the first video where the policemen kicked his head in, is very concerning.

    It should have been "we need to know all the information before making any judgement, and the people attacking the police need to STFU."
    We 'knew' that three police officers were injured, including a policewoman who suffered a broken nose. That indicates there was a story well before that first video, and that the first video did not show the full story. In fact, it might even have been trimmed to only show one side.

    Of course, if you are an ex-'journalist' now MP, you say that the police 'say' that the police were injured, whilst talking the other side as gospel...
    I'd say it probably was trimmed; all we had as far as I could see was a police officer kicking the head and stamping on a man who was under control.

    It concerns me that two MPs engaged in heaping strong praise on that policeman at that point. At that point it was a dog whistle, imo.
    At that point we had already been told that three police officers had been injured, including a femal police officer with a broken nose. It was obvious that this part had been trimmed, to show the incident in the worst possible light.
This discussion has been closed.