Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Will the felon debate the prosecutor? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,164
edited August 4 in General
Will the felon debate the prosecutor? – politicalbetting.com

Vice President Harris: Donald Trump previously agreed to a September 10th debate. It now appears he’s backpedaling. I think the voters deserve to see the split screen that exists in this race on a debate stage. I’m ready. Let’s go pic.twitter.com/tvpfHLZvi4

Read the full story here

«13456

Comments

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,010
    Trump knows he's weak compared to Harris so is running scared.

    Loser.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Somewhere in the top ten?

    More importantly, how do we feel about the use/abuse of apostrophes in the chickened out Tweet?
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 795
    Has anyone else noticed a kinda time of day based cycle in Dem VP prices, or am I convincing myself that some random noise is more 'meaningful'?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Trump knows he's weak compared to Harris so is running scared.

    Loser.

    I think he'd respond with: "What I've seen, what I've seen is so bad, because I have never chickened out in my life. The people that are friends of mine that called to say, Donald, I am so brave and not scared of Kamala. I have much better judgment than she does... I also have a much better temperament than she does... I think my strongest asset maybe by far is my temperament. I have a winning temperament." :wink:

    (courtesy of http://www.donaldtrumptranslator.com/ as I don't speak fluent Trump)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,642
    Selebian said:

    Somewhere in the top ten?

    More importantly, how do we feel about the use/abuse of apostrophes in the chickened out Tweet?

    I am fine with it as it not being used to indicate possession but the omission of letters.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,642
    edited July 26

    Has anyone else noticed a kinda time of day based cycle in Dem VP prices, or am I convincing myself that some random noise is more 'meaningful'?

    Any movements around 6am is usually me, waking up, trying to lay Michelle Obama and other long shots.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Selebian said:

    Somewhere in the top ten?

    More importantly, how do we feel about the use/abuse of apostrophes in the chickened out Tweet?

    I am fine with it as it not being used to indicate possession but the omission of letters.
    True that. Looks horrendous though. But then, so does Trump.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,010
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Somewhere in the top ten?

    More importantly, how do we feel about the use/abuse of apostrophes in the chickened out Tweet?

    I am fine with it as it not being used to indicate possession but the omission of letters.
    True that. Looks horrendous though. But then, so does Trump.
    The chickens aren't orange enough to represent Trump properly.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,400

    Has anyone else noticed a kinda time of day based cycle in Dem VP prices, or am I convincing myself that some random noise is more 'meaningful'?

    Any movements around 6am is usually me, waking up, trying to lay Michelle Obama and other long shots.
    TMI…
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,400

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Somewhere in the top ten?

    More importantly, how do we feel about the use/abuse of apostrophes in the chickened out Tweet?

    I am fine with it as it not being used to indicate possession but the omission of letters.
    True that. Looks horrendous though. But then, so does Trump.
    The chickens aren't orange enough to represent Trump properly.
    He’s a Florida Deep Fat Fried Chicken.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 790

    Has anyone else noticed a kinda time of day based cycle in Dem VP prices, or am I convincing myself that some random noise is more 'meaningful'?

    Any movements around 6am is usually me, waking up, trying to lay Michelle Obama and other long shots.
    As George Takei would say, 'Oh, myyyyy.'
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,642
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Somewhere in the top ten?

    More importantly, how do we feel about the use/abuse of apostrophes in the chickened out Tweet?

    I am fine with it as it not being used to indicate possession but the omission of letters.
    True that. Looks horrendous though. But then, so does Trump.
    Seven years on, I still haven't recovered from this.



    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-correct-punctuation-of-donald-trump-jrs-name
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Ugh. Hideous new lodgings in l’Aveyron
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    edited July 26
    From previous threads: There are two things I like about Mark Kelly, his military career and his science degrees. The value of the first -- both politically and in an elected office -- should be obvious; the value of the second is important in both, but often under rated.
    " He received a Bachelor of Science in marine engineering and nautical science from the United States Merchant Marine Academy, graduating with highest honors in 1986. In 1994, he received a Master of Science in aeronautical engineering from the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Kelly#Early_life_and_education

    (If elected, Kelly would be the second naval aviator to be vice president; the first was, of course, GHWB.)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Has anyone else noticed a kinda time of day based cycle in Dem VP prices, or am I convincing myself that some random noise is more 'meaningful'?

    Any movements around 6am is usually me, waking up, trying to lay Michelle Obama and other long shots.
    As George Takei would say, 'Oh, myyyyy.'
    "Did the markets move for you, too, honey?" :blush:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,642

    Has anyone else noticed a kinda time of day based cycle in Dem VP prices, or am I convincing myself that some random noise is more 'meaningful'?

    Any movements around 6am is usually me, waking up, trying to lay Michelle Obama and other long shots.
    As George Takei would say, 'Oh, myyyyy.'
    You lot need to get your minds out of the gutter!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Not sure I can tolerate this
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079
    Poulet à l'orange.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    I think this can only end badly from Trump, if he holds out and decides not to do it.

    The Harris campaign will be absolutely delighted if he runs scared.
  • Has anyone else noticed a kinda time of day based cycle in Dem VP prices, or am I convincing myself that some random noise is more 'meaningful'?

    Any movements around 6am is usually me, waking up, trying to lay Michelle Obama and other long shots.
    As George Takei would say, 'Oh, myyyyy.'
    You lot need to get your minds out of the gutter!
    Alas laying Kamala at the moment would be very unwise, however tempting for all the wrong reasons.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079

    Has anyone else noticed a kinda time of day based cycle in Dem VP prices, or am I convincing myself that some random noise is more 'meaningful'?

    Any movements around 6am is usually me, waking up, trying to lay Michelle Obama and other long shots.
    In your dreams, you mean ?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...
  • Leon said:

    Not sure I can tolerate this

    Plenty of stationary trains to kip in at the moment.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,974
    Fpt
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bloody hell, fighter jocks from the land of the Reinheitsgebot celebrate with…a Guinness! A court martial matter surely?

    https://x.com/team_luftwaffe/status/1816805818781626686?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    What do the Irish fighter pilots drink to celebrate? Ah…
    I trust that that is an allusion to Paddy Finucane (1920-1942). I assume he drank Guinness, coming from Rathmines as he did, but he certainly had plenty to celebrate with two or three dozen kills.
    I prefer to recommend stuff PBers might enjoy but on this occasion I have to issue a dreadful warning. I came across a biopic of Finucane (on Netflix I think) called The Shamrock Spitfire; it’s TERRIBLE. I managed half an hour before the rotten dialogue, script and low budget AI vibe got to me.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Leon said:

    Not sure I can tolerate this

    Your train was cancelled?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Cicero said:

    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...

    Begin? I think it was obvious from the start with the flurry of donations and volunteers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079
    edited July 26
    Cicero said:

    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...

    Wonder if you'll be able to get 2.7 and up on Betfair after this weekend ?
    I suspect not.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Nigelb said:

    Cicero said:

    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...

    Wonder if you'll be able to get 2.7 and up on Betfair after this weekend ?
    I suspect not.
    The 2.7 looks value, with the VP announcement, the roll call, and the Dem conference, all set to dominate the next month of media.

    A media which is already telling everyone that she’s the next incarnation of Christ, despite having spent most of the past three years roasting her arse.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Farnborough is on at the moment so lots of planes flying over us. Is this a B52? It didn’t show on flight radar.


  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,642
    Nigelb said:

    Has anyone else noticed a kinda time of day based cycle in Dem VP prices, or am I convincing myself that some random noise is more 'meaningful'?

    Any movements around 6am is usually me, waking up, trying to lay Michelle Obama and other long shots.
    In your dreams, you mean ?
    If you lot don’t get your minds out of the gutter I may have to deploy that Farage photo.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure I can tolerate this

    Your train was cancelled?
    Even worse. I’ve booked into a 16th century palace overlooking the River Lot and it turns out THIS is my view. I have several other views - including one from my own tower




    This is the place


    https://www.booking.com/Share-veYCy9s

    What makes it all worse is that - for my ancient fortified suite - I am paying £62 a night. So a bit less than a premier inn
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,974
    tlg86 said:

    Farnborough is on at the moment so lots of planes flying over us. Is this a B52? It didn’t show on flight radar.


    Looks like it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    edited July 26
    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cicero said:

    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...

    Wonder if you'll be able to get 2.7 and up on Betfair after this weekend ?
    I suspect not.
    The 2.7 looks value, with the VP announcement, the roll call, and the Dem conference, all set to dominate the next month of media.

    A media which is already telling everyone that she’s the next incarnation of Christ, despite having spent most of the past three years roasting her arse.
    Situations change with the media. After all think about how much of a downer they had on Starmer while Boris was in his ascendency, and how quickly it turned thereafter.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    What on earth could they have done? You can’t guard the entire national infrastructure

    If it wasn’t trains it might have been airports or motorways or factories or power lines and stations

    And it still might be
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,604
    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    If it is incendiary devices on cabling or cable boxes, then you have thousands of kms to police...
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 795
    tlg86 said:

    Farnborough is on at the moment so lots of planes flying over us. Is this a B52? It didn’t show on flight radar.


    There is definitely a B52 doing overflights at Farnborough this year. I'm not enough of a plane nerd to say for sure what that is from such a low resolution pic but I think so.
  • Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    There are hundreds of miles to "patrol"

    However certain locations have the potential to cause chaos and it looks to me like they have been chosen using detailed inside knowledge.

    For that reason left wing militants are my prime suspicion as the rail staff and militant leftie venn diagram is if not a circle an eclipse, so hiding in plain sight is easy.

    The main lessons learned should be resilience that avoids single points of failure.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    tlg86 said:

    Farnborough is on at the moment so lots of planes flying over us. Is this a B52? It didn’t show on flight radar.


    There is definitely a B52 doing overflights at Farnborough this year. I'm not enough of a plane nerd to say for sure what that is from such a low resolution pic but I think so.
    Makes a change from them doing overflights at Blackbushe.
    https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/29527-b52-inbound-to-blackbushe
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cicero said:

    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...

    Wonder if you'll be able to get 2.7 and up on Betfair after this weekend ?
    I suspect not.
    The 2.7 looks value, with the VP announcement, the roll call, and the Dem conference, all set to dominate the next month of media.

    A media which is already telling everyone that she’s the next incarnation of Christ, despite having spent most of the past three years roasting her arse.
    They've done PR for Trump for three years on the assumption he'd be the next president. Now they're hedging their bets.

    I think you make a mistake in assuming the 'liberal media' is particularly liberal in their political coverage.
    It's just not very good at its job (assuming that job is journalism).

    I have more sympathy with this sort of analysis.
    https://danieldrezner.substack.com/p/an-open-letter-to-the-editors-of
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079
    edited July 26
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure I can tolerate this

    Your train was cancelled?
    Even worse. I’ve booked into a 16th century palace overlooking the River Lot and it turns out THIS is my view. I have several other views - including one from my own tower




    This is the place


    https://www.booking.com/Share-veYCy9s

    What makes it all worse is that - for my ancient fortified suite - I am paying £62 a night. So a bit less than a premier inn
    I see what you mean.
    It does look a bit pokey.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure I can tolerate this

    Your train was cancelled?
    Even worse. I’ve booked into a 16th century palace overlooking the River Lot and it turns out THIS is my view. I have several other views - including one from my own tower




    This is the place


    https://www.booking.com/Share-veYCy9s

    What makes it all worse is that - for my ancient fortified suite - I am paying £62 a night. So a bit less than a premier inn
    Definitely a restricted view seat, that. I'd ask for a partial refund :wink:
  • Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cicero said:

    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...

    Wonder if you'll be able to get 2.7 and up on Betfair after this weekend ?
    I suspect not.
    The 2.7 looks value, with the VP announcement, the roll call, and the Dem conference, all set to dominate the next month of media.

    A media which is already telling everyone that she’s the next incarnation of Christ, despite having spent most of the past three years roasting her arse.
    They've done PR for Trump for three years on the assumption he'd be the next president. Now they're hedging their bets.

    I think you make a mistake in assuming the 'liberal media' is particularly liberal in their political coverage.
    It's just not very good at its job (assuming that job is journalism).

    I have more sympathy with this sort of analysis.
    https://danieldrezner.substack.com/p/an-open-letter-to-the-editors-of
    That’s a brilliant piece.

    The good journalists are all now on Substack or Youtube, while the “established” US media is dying. There’s an awful lot of this stuff to run in the next few months.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,400

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    It's not there yet, but there could come a point where Trump needs to debate, because he's behind in the polls and needs a game-changer.

    Which would be awkward.
  • Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure I can tolerate this

    Your train was cancelled?
    Even worse. I’ve booked into a 16th century palace overlooking the River Lot and it turns out THIS is my view. I have several other views - including one from my own tower




    This is the place


    https://www.booking.com/Share-veYCy9s

    What makes it all worse is that - for my ancient fortified suite - I am paying £62 a night. So a bit less than a premier inn
    Norman Stanley Tho**s. You are an habitual criminal... I therefore feel constrained...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,840
    Cicero said:

    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...

    On Thursday night she had a zoom call of 164k mainly white women, the largest zoom call ever, and raised $2m as well as getting large numbers of volunteers.

    It has been a really powerful start but she still has some difficult questions to answer about covering up for Biden and her role in the border issues. The latter of these can be batted back by her saying (as she already has) what she tried to do was get the bipartisan bill through Congress but it was blocked on the instructions of DJT. The former is a bit trickier, because it goes to her trustworthiness.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220

    Nigelb said:

    Has anyone else noticed a kinda time of day based cycle in Dem VP prices, or am I convincing myself that some random noise is more 'meaningful'?

    Any movements around 6am is usually me, waking up, trying to lay Michelle Obama and other long shots.
    In your dreams, you mean ?
    If you lot don’t get your minds out of the gutter I may have to deploy that Farage photo.
    One way to stop people having saucy thoughts, I suppose.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    There are hundreds of miles to "patrol"

    However certain locations have the potential to cause chaos and it looks to me like they have been chosen using detailed inside knowledge.

    For that reason left wing militants are my prime suspicion as the rail staff and militant leftie venn diagram is if not a circle an eclipse, so hiding in plain sight is easy.

    The main lessons learned should be resilience that avoids single points of failure.
    You don’t need to be a genius to realise the boxes next the points/signals are important.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,400
    Whoops Leicestershire. What happened?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,903
    No rush to judgement on the French saboteurs? Is everyone waiting for Jeremy Corbyn to say we need all the evidence, even after France arrested a Russian spy?

    If the weather forecast is correct, rain may put a dampener on the opening parade anyway so they could have saved themselves the trouble.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,604

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    You do realise that's wrong for a number of reasons, don't you?

    Firstly, not doing infrastructure projects because of the threat of disruption is odd; I mean, why were we building airports after the hijacking started in the 1970s?

    Secondly, HS2 does not replace existing services, but adds to them. The old long-distance routes are still available (as is the case - mostly - in France) for diversions or to take passengers if HS2 goes down.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    What on earth could they have done? You can’t guard the entire national infrastructure

    If it wasn’t trains it might have been airports or motorways or factories or power lines and stations

    And it still might be
    They could have cameras on every section able to detect intruders.
  • ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
    The problem was that it so ill fitted in with existing stations (Derby/Notts from a Parkway 10 miles from each, sheffield a Parkway at Meadowhall and Doncaster bypassed) that it would have released very few paths.

    The later plan, also now canned, to extend from Birmingham to Trent Jct and go from there actually into Derby, Notts, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds would be quite sensible and would have helped the capacity problems south of Bedford.

    East Coast Line needs a completion of four tracking south of Peterborough and more efficient platform occupancy at Kings Cross (including no more "suburban" trains in the main line platforms).


  • Foss said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    There are hundreds of miles to "patrol"

    However certain locations have the potential to cause chaos and it looks to me like they have been chosen using detailed inside knowledge.

    For that reason left wing militants are my prime suspicion as the rail staff and militant leftie venn diagram is if not a circle an eclipse, so hiding in plain sight is easy.

    The main lessons learned should be resilience that avoids single points of failure.
    You don’t need to be a genius to realise the boxes next the points/signals are important.
    Some are rather more important than others and you need detailed knowledge to know which and where.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,604
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    What on earth could they have done? You can’t guard the entire national infrastructure

    If it wasn’t trains it might have been airports or motorways or factories or power lines and stations

    And it still might be
    They could have cameras on every section able to detect intruders.
    I don't think you understand the distances involved...

    I haven't been able to find a map of where the fires happened, but *assume* they were geographically well-spread. If so, given the devices seemed to go off at roughly the same time, then it is almost certainly a group, not an individual.

    I do hope that these were not diversionary attacks for the games... :(
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    I think this seals my thesis that this corner of France is incredibly undertouristed, despite its beauty, and is thus - if you research right - remarkably good value

    How can that place be £62 a night?? In an actual palace with some of the finest river views I’ve ever seen - and in a luscious little medieval town?

    £62. That’s less than a travelodge. In Newent
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,400

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
    The problem was that it so ill fitted in with existing stations (Derby/Notts from a Parkway 10 miles from each, sheffield a Parkway at Meadowhall and Doncaster bypassed) that it would have released very few paths.

    The later plan, also now canned, to extend from Birmingham to Trent Jct and go from there actually into Derby, Notts, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds would be quite sensible and would have helped the capacity problems south of Bedford.

    East Coast Line needs a completion of four tracking south of Peterborough and more efficient platform occupancy at Kings Cross (including no more "suburban" trains in the main line platforms).


    Huh? 'Released very little capacity?' It would have raised the capacity on the WCML alone from 16 to 52 tph!

    The mad, utterly dishonest plan to try and put faster trains on the MML from East Midlands Parkway would by contrast have totally destroyed capacity, probably eliminating pretty much all local and freight trains between Nottingham and Doncaster.

    You can have more trains, or you can have faster trains. You cannot have more and faster trains on a line at capacity without more tracks.

    Shapps lied to parliament over that plan. He deserved the vote his constituents gave him.
  • Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    You do realise that's wrong for a number of reasons, don't you?

    Firstly, not doing infrastructure projects because of the threat of disruption is odd; I mean, why were we building airports after the hijacking started in the 1970s?

    Secondly, HS2 does not replace existing services, but adds to them. The old long-distance routes are still available (as is the case - mostly - in France) for diversions or to take passengers if HS2 goes down.
    No they will not be available. There wont be suitable trains and the paths will be used by outer suburban and freight trains.

    You couldn't run a Eurostar to Waterloo for love nor money. Track is all there but the paths are not.

    See my subsequent post for a better solution than the white elephant eastern leg and why.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,604
    totally off-topic, here's a Network Rail thread on renewing the track in the Severn Tunnel. Some nice piccies from within, including the catenary.

    https://x.com/networkrail/status/1816808336651608066
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    Harry Enten says the Harris momentum is over hyped.

    https://x.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1816849626139406757

    He's really good.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 26
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
    The problem was that it so ill fitted in with existing stations (Derby/Notts from a Parkway 10 miles from each, sheffield a Parkway at Meadowhall and Doncaster bypassed) that it would have released very few paths.

    The later plan, also now canned, to extend from Birmingham to Trent Jct and go from there actually into Derby, Notts, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds would be quite sensible and would have helped the capacity problems south of Bedford.

    East Coast Line needs a completion of four tracking south of Peterborough and more efficient platform occupancy at Kings Cross (including no more "suburban" trains in the main line platforms).


    Huh? 'Released very little capacity?' It would have raised the capacity on the WCML alone from 16 to 52 tph!

    The mad, utterly dishonest plan to try and put faster trains on the MML from East Midlands Parkway would by contrast have totally destroyed capacity, probably eliminating pretty much all local and freight trains between Nottingham and Doncaster.

    You can have more trains, or you can have faster trains. You cannot have more and faster trains on a line at capacity without more tracks.

    Shapps lied to parliament over that plan. He deserved the vote his constituents gave him.
    I was talking about canning the east leg not the west leg which is the west coast relief bit and still being built.

    As to midland trains. Rubbish, they would have used existing paths to Nottingham and Sheffield and the Four Track Erewash Valley formation is little used ditto the party dismantled north midland main line to Leeds via Goose Hill.

    The capacity constraints on the midland line are Bedford to London and St Pancras Stn.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079
    Nunu5 said:

    Harry Enten says the Harris momentum is over hyped.

    https://x.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1816849626139406757

    He's really good.

    He's talking about current poll numbers, though.
    Let's see what they are next week.

    But yes, some good stuff. Here's an extreme demonstration of why I'm sceptical about VP selections 'delivering' their home state.

    If JD Vance's popularity in his home region (-16 pts) is any sign, it won't get better for Vance nationally (where he's historically unpopular).

    Also, Vance's favorable rating is just 5% with undecideds (i.e. not for Harris/Trump) in the prez race. His unfavorable rating is 29%.

    https://x.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1816634155972673795
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079
    Closed my Norris short for a small profit.
    Mercedes don't seem to have their upgrades sorted, and the Dutch shunt has a grid penalty for a replacement engine.

    And Piastri owes Norris one, should it come to it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,604

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
    The problem was that it so ill fitted in with existing stations (Derby/Notts from a Parkway 10 miles from each, sheffield a Parkway at Meadowhall and Doncaster bypassed) that it would have released very few paths.

    The later plan, also now canned, to extend from Birmingham to Trent Jct and go from there actually into Derby, Notts, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds would be quite sensible and would have helped the capacity problems south of Bedford.

    East Coast Line needs a completion of four tracking south of Peterborough and more efficient platform occupancy at Kings Cross (including no more "suburban" trains in the main line platforms).
    You are, I fear, wrong. In fact, I'd argue clueless.

    AIUI the only non-four track sections of the ECML south of Peterborough are the stretch south to north of Huntingdon, and the Welwyn/Digswell viaduct area. Much of the former is triple track. The latter (Welwyn tunnels and viaduct, I think) does not actually increase capacity that much, which is a big reason why it hasn't been done so far.

    And I'm far from convinced that your statement "...that it would have released very few paths," given the way HS2 was structured.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,903
    Nigelb said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Harry Enten says the Harris momentum is over hyped.

    https://x.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1816849626139406757

    He's really good.

    He's talking about current poll numbers, though.
    Let's see what they are next week.

    But yes, some good stuff. Here's an extreme demonstration of why I'm sceptical about VP selections 'delivering' their home state.

    If JD Vance's popularity in his home region (-16 pts) is any sign, it won't get better for Vance nationally (where he's historically unpopular).

    Also, Vance's favorable rating is just 5% with undecideds (i.e. not for Harris/Trump) in the prez race. His unfavorable rating is 29%.

    https://x.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1816634155972673795
    Trump picking JD Vance is almost as inexplicable as Rishi calling a July election. Vance is universally unpopular, has links to Project 2025 from which Trump is trying to distance himself, hates cats and has no regard for Trump whom he called America's Hitler.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079

    Nigelb said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Harry Enten says the Harris momentum is over hyped.

    https://x.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1816849626139406757

    He's really good.

    He's talking about current poll numbers, though.
    Let's see what they are next week.

    But yes, some good stuff. Here's an extreme demonstration of why I'm sceptical about VP selections 'delivering' their home state.

    If JD Vance's popularity in his home region (-16 pts) is any sign, it won't get better for Vance nationally (where he's historically unpopular).

    Also, Vance's favorable rating is just 5% with undecideds (i.e. not for Harris/Trump) in the prez race. His unfavorable rating is 29%.

    https://x.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1816634155972673795
    Trump picking JD Vance is almost as inexplicable as Rishi calling a July election. Vance is universally unpopular, has links to Project 2025 from which Trump is trying to distance himself, hates cats and has no regard for Trump whom he called America's Hitler.
    Even Palin, now widely regarded as a disastrous pick, had high positive approval ratings straight after the GOP convention.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    DavidL said:

    Cicero said:

    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...

    On Thursday night she had a zoom call of 164k mainly white women, the largest zoom call ever, and raised $2m as well as getting large numbers of volunteers.

    It has been a really powerful start but she still has some difficult questions to answer about covering up for Biden and her role in the border issues. The latter of these can be batted back by her saying (as she already has) what she tried to do was get the bipartisan bill through Congress but it was blocked on the instructions of DJT. The former is a bit trickier, because it goes to her trustworthiness.
    Covering up for Biden is not a problem because he bailed out before doing anything worse than the debate performance (as far as we know). It can just about plausibly be claimed that he's fine and went purely because of the optics and because he was worried he might deteriorate a bit in 2027. Countering this admittedly thin claim would involve what would look like the pointless persecution of a sick old man.

    The other point is P and VP is not a Mulder and Scully type partnership, they aren't driving round in the same car all day working on the same things. Harris can say she asked her peeps to ask his peeps and his peeps came back to say everything was AOK. She was deceived as much as the rest of us. This defence is solid unless it emerges that Biden ordered the nuclear obliteration of Newent, Glos back in April and Harris had to countermand it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,651
    Thread:

    https://x.com/lavrovskyi/status/1816609537178370412

    If this is genuinely Trump’s plan for Ukraine, I'm ready to buy a MAGA cap and wear it every day until he is elected.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079
    Forget baking soda; start crunching numbers.

    How America’s Fastest Swimmers Use Math to Win Gold

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-americas-fastest-swimmers-use-math-to-win-gold-20240710/
    ..Would you believe that we’ve never measured anyone who was more than 60% efficient in the four strokes — freestyle, breaststroke, butterfly and backstroke? It’s basically impossible. In April, we had Paige Madden wear force sensors, and we modeled the path of her hand as she took a stroke and recovered. We computed that in the first lap of her swim, 59.1% of the force her right hand generated was propelling her in the direction she wanted to go. That is awesome.

    But by lap 8, only 42.1% was propelling her forward. Not only was she getting more tired, but her execution was starting to fall apart. So using just these insights from linear algebra, we gave her some cues about how to swim the race differently. And the next day, on lap 8, she was close to 50%. One month later, she swam her personal best.

    Our paddles don’t let you lie. We don’t let you fool yourselves.

    And this math works the same for all four strokes?

    I’ve never been able to get our force sensors to work for breaststroke. There’s too much going on. I get data, but I can’t make heads or tails out of it...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,400
    edited July 26

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
    The problem was that it so ill fitted in with existing stations (Derby/Notts from a Parkway 10 miles from each, sheffield a Parkway at Meadowhall and Doncaster bypassed) that it would have released very few paths.

    The later plan, also now canned, to extend from Birmingham to Trent Jct and go from there actually into Derby, Notts, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds would be quite sensible and would have helped the capacity problems south of Bedford.

    East Coast Line needs a completion of four tracking south of Peterborough and more efficient platform occupancy at Kings Cross (including no more "suburban" trains in the main line platforms).


    Huh? 'Released very little capacity?' It would have raised the capacity on the WCML alone from 16 to 52 tph!

    The mad, utterly dishonest plan to try and put faster trains on the MML from East Midlands Parkway would by contrast have totally destroyed capacity, probably eliminating pretty much all local and freight trains between Nottingham and Doncaster.

    You can have more trains, or you can have faster trains. You cannot have more and faster trains on a line at capacity without more tracks.

    Shapps lied to parliament over that plan. He deserved the vote his constituents gave him.
    I was talking about canning the east leg not the west leg which is the west coast relief bit and still being built.

    As to midland trains. Rubbish, they would have used existing paths to Nottingham and Sheffield and the Four Track Erewash Valley formation is little used ditto the party dismantled north midland main line to Leeds via Goose Hill.

    The capacity constraints on the midland line are Bedford to London and St Pancras Stn.
    Incorrect. The claim was that they would have used 140mph speeds on existing tracks.

    Which would have killed capacity.

    They claimed a new signalling system might help. It was a lie. That system was proposed for the WCML in 1998 and it"s never actually worked.

    That's really, really easy to grasp.

    Your claims do not stack up.

    As for stations you do know nobody uses EMP because it's in such a stupid place, don't you?

    Edit - for these reasons, it hasn't actually been cancelled. It has been mothballed. The land and the permissions have been retained.
  • ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
    The problem was that it so ill fitted in with existing stations (Derby/Notts from a Parkway 10 miles from each, sheffield a Parkway at Meadowhall and Doncaster bypassed) that it would have released very few paths.

    The later plan, also now canned, to extend from Birmingham to Trent Jct and go from there actually into Derby, Notts, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds would be quite sensible and would have helped the capacity problems south of Bedford.

    East Coast Line needs a completion of four tracking south of Peterborough and more efficient platform occupancy at Kings Cross (including no more "suburban" trains in the main line platforms).
    You are, I fear, wrong. In fact, I'd argue clueless.

    AIUI the only non-four track sections of the ECML south of Peterborough are the stretch south to north of Huntingdon, and the Welwyn/Digswell viaduct area. Much of the former is triple track. The latter (Welwyn tunnels and viaduct, I think) does not actually increase capacity that much, which is a big reason why it hasn't been done so far.

    And I'm far from convinced that your statement "...that it would have released very few paths," given the way HS2 was structured.
    They would make a big difference to capacity, it hasn't been done because it would need a long viaduct and long tunnel and would be very expensive.

    The capacity problem is then Kings Cross Station which would need a big rethink on operatung practice to reduce platform occupation times significantly and get rid of outer suburbans from the main line platforms (as was done when St Pancras (midland platforms) were reduced to Four, with six an hour using them (2 Corby, 2 Notts, 2 Sheffield) same number as intercities frpm Kx but with less than half the platforms.

    If you dont believe me compare the number of peak hour trains between Finsbury Park and Peterborough/Cambridge with Euston to Rugby or St Pancras to Bedford. And don't forget the freight too.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220

    DavidL said:

    Cicero said:

    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...

    On Thursday night she had a zoom call of 164k mainly white women, the largest zoom call ever, and raised $2m as well as getting large numbers of volunteers.

    It has been a really powerful start but she still has some difficult questions to answer about covering up for Biden and her role in the border issues. The latter of these can be batted back by her saying (as she already has) what she tried to do was get the bipartisan bill through Congress but it was blocked on the instructions of DJT. The former is a bit trickier, because it goes to her trustworthiness.
    Covering up for Biden is not a problem because he bailed out before doing anything worse than the debate performance (as far as we know). It can just about plausibly be claimed that he's fine and went purely because of the optics and because he was worried he might deteriorate a bit in 2027. Countering this admittedly thin claim would involve what would look like the pointless persecution of a sick old man.

    The other point is P and VP is not a Mulder and Scully type partnership, they aren't driving round in the same car all day working on the same things. Harris can say she asked her peeps to ask his peeps and his peeps came back to say everything was AOK. She was deceived as much as the rest of us. This defence is solid unless it emerges that Biden ordered the nuclear obliteration of Newent, Glos back in April and Harris had to countermand it.
    Besides.

    Does the Trump campaign really want to talk about "your man was senile"?

    Really?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,903

    DavidL said:

    Cicero said:

    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...

    On Thursday night she had a zoom call of 164k mainly white women, the largest zoom call ever, and raised $2m as well as getting large numbers of volunteers.

    It has been a really powerful start but she still has some difficult questions to answer about covering up for Biden and her role in the border issues. The latter of these can be batted back by her saying (as she already has) what she tried to do was get the bipartisan bill through Congress but it was blocked on the instructions of DJT. The former is a bit trickier, because it goes to her trustworthiness.
    Covering up for Biden is not a problem because he bailed out before doing anything worse than the debate performance (as far as we know). It can just about plausibly be claimed that he's fine and went purely because of the optics and because he was worried he might deteriorate a bit in 2027. Countering this admittedly thin claim would involve what would look like the pointless persecution of a sick old man.

    The other point is P and VP is not a Mulder and Scully type partnership, they aren't driving round in the same car all day working on the same things. Harris can say she asked her peeps to ask his peeps and his peeps came back to say everything was AOK. She was deceived as much as the rest of us. This defence is solid unless it emerges that Biden ordered the nuclear obliteration of Newent, Glos back in April and Harris had to countermand it.
    The ministers' Post Office defence. I asked my civil servants to ask...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,847

    Fpt

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bloody hell, fighter jocks from the land of the Reinheitsgebot celebrate with…a Guinness! A court martial matter surely?

    https://x.com/team_luftwaffe/status/1816805818781626686?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    What do the Irish fighter pilots drink to celebrate? Ah…
    I trust that that is an allusion to Paddy Finucane (1920-1942). I assume he drank Guinness, coming from Rathmines as he did, but he certainly had plenty to celebrate with two or three dozen kills.
    I prefer to recommend stuff PBers might enjoy but on this occasion I have to issue a dreadful warning. I came across a biopic of Finucane (on Netflix I think) called The Shamrock Spitfire; it’s TERRIBLE. I managed half an hour before the rotten dialogue, script and low budget AI vibe got to me.
    This reminds me that a colleague of mine was a schoolboy and air cadet in Belfast when Shorts or RNAY Sydenham were converting old Seafires to two-seat trainers for the Aer Chór na hÉireann. He managed to blag a ride in the back seat of one. Think how much it would cost him today!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,186
    edited July 26
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Not sure I can tolerate this

    Your train was cancelled?
    Even worse. I’ve booked into a 16th century palace overlooking the River Lot and it turns out THIS is my view. I have several other views - including one from my own tower




    This is the place


    https://www.booking.com/Share-veYCy9s

    What makes it all worse is that - for my ancient fortified suite - I am paying £62 a night. So a bit less than a premier inn
    That's rather reminiscent of *that* Philip Green photo. My photo quota.

    Some people say I made Philip Green look a bit of a cock. Can't see it myself.
    https://x.com/MrJakeWalters/status/724995330039791616?lang=en-GB
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    DavidL said:

    Cicero said:

    It does begin to feel like Kamala may have gained some very big mo...

    On Thursday night she had a zoom call of 164k mainly white women, the largest zoom call ever, and raised $2m as well as getting large numbers of volunteers.

    It has been a really powerful start but she still has some difficult questions to answer about covering up for Biden and her role in the border issues. The latter of these can be batted back by her saying (as she already has) what she tried to do was get the bipartisan bill through Congress but it was blocked on the instructions of DJT. The former is a bit trickier, because it goes to her trustworthiness.
    I don’t think the Biden thing will cause her too many problems. She just says she was proud to support him and would have supported him for a second term but he decided against it and now we look to the future. I agree that there are questions that will be asked about how ga-ga he was/is but she will skirt them I think, and I don’t expect it to be a big election issue.

    The border issue is much more dangerous for her.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    From previous threads: There are two things I like about Mark Kelly, his military career and his science degrees. The value of the first -- both politically and in an elected office -- should be obvious; the value of the second is important in both, but often under rated.
    " He received a Bachelor of Science in marine engineering and nautical science from the United States Merchant Marine Academy, graduating with highest honors in 1986. In 1994, he received a Master of Science in aeronautical engineering from the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Kelly#Early_life_and_education

    (If elected, Kelly would be the second naval aviator to be vice president; the first was, of course, GHWB.)

    You are ignoring the "combat" aviation experience (singular) of then- US Navy officer Lyndon B. Johnson, who was awarded a Silver Star for this exploit, which was presented to him by FDR at a White House ceremony IIRC.

    Though navy aviation record of George Bush the Elder AND Mark Kelly arguably more substantial!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    edited July 26
    O/T

    There's no excuse for not bowling 90 overs in a day. I know there occasionally used to be a problem with the final session going on for more than two and a half hours, but if that happens have another 20 minute break, the same length as the tea break, and then continue playing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,847
    O/T but as it is teatime on Friday ... Flow Country of Caithness declared a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gz1p2v12o

    I hope that it helps keep it clear of turd-shaped hotels better this time round ...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,168
    I'd be amazed if Trump agrees to debate Harris. He'd be at risk of being demolished.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,586

    Thread:

    https://x.com/lavrovskyi/status/1816609537178370412

    If this is genuinely Trump’s plan for Ukraine, I'm ready to buy a MAGA cap and wear it every day until he is elected.

    No, you totally misunderstand. Trump intends to sell out Ukraine to Putin at the first opportunity.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,847

    From previous threads: There are two things I like about Mark Kelly, his military career and his science degrees. The value of the first -- both politically and in an elected office -- should be obvious; the value of the second is important in both, but often under rated.
    " He received a Bachelor of Science in marine engineering and nautical science from the United States Merchant Marine Academy, graduating with highest honors in 1986. In 1994, he received a Master of Science in aeronautical engineering from the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Kelly#Early_life_and_education

    (If elected, Kelly would be the second naval aviator to be vice president; the first was, of course, GHWB.)

    You are ignoring the "combat" aviation experience (singular) of then- US Navy officer Lyndon B. Johnson, who was awarded a Silver Star for this exploit, which was presented to him by FDR at a White House ceremony IIRC.

    Though navy aviation record of George Bush the Elder AND Mark Kelly arguably more substantial!
    Jimmy CArter was a submariner at a time when they had to be very good engineers under Rickover, was he not? Admittedly no combat that I know about.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,604

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
    The problem was that it so ill fitted in with existing stations (Derby/Notts from a Parkway 10 miles from each, sheffield a Parkway at Meadowhall and Doncaster bypassed) that it would have released very few paths.

    The later plan, also now canned, to extend from Birmingham to Trent Jct and go from there actually into Derby, Notts, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds would be quite sensible and would have helped the capacity problems south of Bedford.

    East Coast Line needs a completion of four tracking south of Peterborough and more efficient platform occupancy at Kings Cross (including no more "suburban" trains in the main line platforms).
    You are, I fear, wrong. In fact, I'd argue clueless.

    AIUI the only non-four track sections of the ECML south of Peterborough are the stretch south to north of Huntingdon, and the Welwyn/Digswell viaduct area. Much of the former is triple track. The latter (Welwyn tunnels and viaduct, I think) does not actually increase capacity that much, which is a big reason why it hasn't been done so far.

    And I'm far from convinced that your statement "...that it would have released very few paths," given the way HS2 was structured.
    They would make a big difference to capacity, it hasn't been done because it would need a long viaduct and long tunnel and would be very expensive.

    The capacity problem is then Kings Cross Station which would need a big rethink on operatung practice to reduce platform occupation times significantly and get rid of outer suburbans from the main line platforms (as was done when St Pancras (midland platforms) were reduced to Four, with six an hour using them (2 Corby, 2 Notts, 2 Sheffield) same number as intercities frpm Kx but with less than half the platforms.

    If you dont believe me compare the number of peak hour trains between Finsbury Park and Peterborough/Cambridge with Euston to Rugby or St Pancras to Bedford. And don't forget the freight too.

    It really would not. This keeps on being brought up, particularly by people against HS2, but it doesn't add up. This has, of course, been looked into many times. For instance:

    "Options were examined to four track Welwyn viaduct and tunnels. Although this removed
    much of this bottleneck, the mix of services on the fast lines south of Hitchin became the
    next constraint which limited the improvement to long distance and suburban which could be
    achieved. Therefore no options were taken forward which four tracked Welwyn viaduct,
    although an option which partially removed the bottleneck by 4-tracking the tunnels and
    station was included in another package. "

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7cd63eed915d63cc65d219/possible-enhancements-to-rail-network.pdf

    Basically: there are several reasons for the lack of capacity in that area, and even if you fixed the viaduct and tunnels, you just move the problem on elsewhere given the diversity of services.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
    The problem was that it so ill fitted in with existing stations (Derby/Notts from a Parkway 10 miles from each, sheffield a Parkway at Meadowhall and Doncaster bypassed) that it would have released very few paths.

    The later plan, also now canned, to extend from Birmingham to Trent Jct and go from there actually into Derby, Notts, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds would be quite sensible and would have helped the capacity problems south of Bedford.

    East Coast Line needs a completion of four tracking south of Peterborough and more efficient platform occupancy at Kings Cross (including no more "suburban" trains in the main line platforms).


    Huh? 'Released very little capacity?' It would have raised the capacity on the WCML alone from 16 to 52 tph!

    The mad, utterly dishonest plan to try and put faster trains on the MML from East Midlands Parkway would by contrast have totally destroyed capacity, probably eliminating pretty much all local and freight trains between Nottingham and Doncaster.

    You can have more trains, or you can have faster trains. You cannot have more and faster trains on a line at capacity without more tracks.

    Shapps lied to parliament over that plan. He deserved the vote his constituents gave him.
    I was talking about canning the east leg not the west leg which is the west coast relief bit and still being built.

    As to midland trains. Rubbish, they would have used existing paths to Nottingham and Sheffield and the Four Track Erewash Valley formation is little used ditto the party dismantled north midland main line to Leeds via Goose Hill.

    The capacity constraints on the midland line are Bedford to London and St Pancras Stn.
    Incorrect. The claim was that they would have used 140mph speeds on existing tracks.

    Which would have killed capacity.

    They claimed a new signalling system might help. It was a lie. That system was proposed for the WCML in 1998 and it"s never actually worked.

    That's really, really easy to grasp.

    Your claims do not stack up.

    As for stations you do know nobody uses EMP because it's in such a stupid place, don't you?
    Yes, EMP is a commercial disaster as it happens.

    You could upgrade the Erewash Valley Line, reinstating the missing 4 track and electrify it without affecting existing services much because very few use it - virtually none in places. Fast Leeds trains could then bypass Sheffield altogether on the currently freight only line to Rotherham Masburough.

    From there the choice was reopen the Midland Line to Goose Hill, build the last bit of HS2 to Leeds or run at existing speeds via Wakefield.

    The exact plans never got as far as detailed design alas as it rapidly got canned.

    The reason that the original HS2 plans would not have released any significant capacity on the East Coast Main Line or Midland Main Line is that most of the existing trains would still need to run to serve Leicester, Derby (City) Nottingham (City) Doncaster, Wakefield, and all the other intercity served places between there and London.

    It would have released zilch paths on the midland and at best two an hour on the East Coast south of York.

    As to the East Midlands Station it would have been a bigger white Elephant than East Midlands Parkway.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,604

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
    The problem was that it so ill fitted in with existing stations (Derby/Notts from a Parkway 10 miles from each, sheffield a Parkway at Meadowhall and Doncaster bypassed) that it would have released very few paths.

    The later plan, also now canned, to extend from Birmingham to Trent Jct and go from there actually into Derby, Notts, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds would be quite sensible and would have helped the capacity problems south of Bedford.

    East Coast Line needs a completion of four tracking south of Peterborough and more efficient platform occupancy at Kings Cross (including no more "suburban" trains in the main line platforms).


    Huh? 'Released very little capacity?' It would have raised the capacity on the WCML alone from 16 to 52 tph!

    The mad, utterly dishonest plan to try and put faster trains on the MML from East Midlands Parkway would by contrast have totally destroyed capacity, probably eliminating pretty much all local and freight trains between Nottingham and Doncaster.

    You can have more trains, or you can have faster trains. You cannot have more and faster trains on a line at capacity without more tracks.

    Shapps lied to parliament over that plan. He deserved the vote his constituents gave him.
    I was talking about canning the east leg not the west leg which is the west coast relief bit and still being built.

    As to midland trains. Rubbish, they would have used existing paths to Nottingham and Sheffield and the Four Track Erewash Valley formation is little used ditto the party dismantled north midland main line to Leeds via Goose Hill.

    The capacity constraints on the midland line are Bedford to London and St Pancras Stn.
    Incorrect. The claim was that they would have used 140mph speeds on existing tracks.

    Which would have killed capacity.

    They claimed a new signalling system might help. It was a lie. That system was proposed for the WCML in 1998 and it"s never actually worked.

    That's really, really easy to grasp.

    Your claims do not stack up.

    As for stations you do know nobody uses EMP because it's in such a stupid place, don't you?
    Yes, EMP is a commercial disaster as it happens.

    You could upgrade the Erewash Valley Line, reinstating the missing 4 track and electrify it without affecting existing services much because very few use it - virtually none in places. Fast Leeds trains could then bypass Sheffield altogether on the currently freight only line to Rotherham Masburough.

    From there the choice was reopen the Midland Line to Goose Hill, build the last bit of HS2 to Leeds or run at existing speeds via Wakefield.

    The exact plans never got as far as detailed design alas as it rapidly got canned.

    The reason that the original HS2 plans would not have released any significant capacity on the East Coast Main Line or Midland Main Line is that most of the existing trains would still need to run to serve Leicester, Derby (City) Nottingham (City) Doncaster, Wakefield, and all the other intercity served places between there and London.

    It would have released zilch paths on the midland and at best two an hour on the East Coast south of York.

    As to the East Midlands Station it would have been a bigger white Elephant than East Midlands Parkway.
    Not all trains between the north and London on the ECML stop many times. That was part of the idea: route the non-stop or few-stop services via HS2 east, and let the slower expresses, local services and freight use the classic lines. HS2 was not designed to replace the classic network, but enhance it.
  • ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
    The problem was that it so ill fitted in with existing stations (Derby/Notts from a Parkway 10 miles from each, sheffield a Parkway at Meadowhall and Doncaster bypassed) that it would have released very few paths.

    The later plan, also now canned, to extend from Birmingham to Trent Jct and go from there actually into Derby, Notts, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds would be quite sensible and would have helped the capacity problems south of Bedford.

    East Coast Line needs a completion of four tracking south of Peterborough and more efficient platform occupancy at Kings Cross (including no more "suburban" trains in the main line platforms).
    You are, I fear, wrong. In fact, I'd argue clueless.

    AIUI the only non-four track sections of the ECML south of Peterborough are the stretch south to north of Huntingdon, and the Welwyn/Digswell viaduct area. Much of the former is triple track. The latter (Welwyn tunnels and viaduct, I think) does not actually increase capacity that much, which is a big reason why it hasn't been done so far.

    And I'm far from convinced that your statement "...that it would have released very few paths," given the way HS2 was structured.
    They would make a big difference to capacity, it hasn't been done because it would need a long viaduct and long tunnel and would be very expensive.

    The capacity problem is then Kings Cross Station which would need a big rethink on operatung practice to reduce platform occupation times significantly and get rid of outer suburbans from the main line platforms (as was done when St Pancras (midland platforms) were reduced to Four, with six an hour using them (2 Corby, 2 Notts, 2 Sheffield) same number as intercities frpm Kx but with less than half the platforms.

    If you dont believe me compare the number of peak hour trains between Finsbury Park and Peterborough/Cambridge with Euston to Rugby or St Pancras to Bedford. And don't forget the freight too.

    It really would not. This keeps on being brought up, particularly by people against HS2, but it doesn't add up. This has, of course, been looked into many times. For instance:

    "Options were examined to four track Welwyn viaduct and tunnels. Although this removed
    much of this bottleneck, the mix of services on the fast lines south of Hitchin became the
    next constraint which limited the improvement to long distance and suburban which could be
    achieved. Therefore no options were taken forward which four tracked Welwyn viaduct,
    although an option which partially removed the bottleneck by 4-tracking the tunnels and
    station was included in another package. "

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7cd63eed915d63cc65d219/possible-enhancements-to-rail-network.pdf

    Basically: there are several reasons for the lack of capacity in that area, and even if you fixed the viaduct and tunnels, you just move the problem on elsewhere given the diversity of services.
    The main thing you would need to do is to reconfigure the six tracks between Alexandra Palace and Finsbury to totally segregate the Moorgate services from the rest, which, some new platforms and resignalling aside is not that difficult.

    Remember that consultant reports like that don't work in a blue sky, they come up with what you can do with given constraints, which are often stated opaquely in obscure corners of the report, which may well be added in in the first place by the client to get the desired outcome

    A far bigger headache is where to park extra intercities at KX. But that can be sorted with smart operation if the will is there, as shown at St Pancras
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079
    Nigelb said:

    Closed my Norris short for a small profit.
    Mercedes don't seem to have their upgrades sorted, and the Dutch shunt has a grid penalty for a replacement engine.

    And Piastri owes Norris one, should it come to it.

    And just like that, Norris goes fastest in FP2.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079
    edited July 26
    Carnyx said:

    From previous threads: There are two things I like about Mark Kelly, his military career and his science degrees. The value of the first -- both politically and in an elected office -- should be obvious; the value of the second is important in both, but often under rated.
    " He received a Bachelor of Science in marine engineering and nautical science from the United States Merchant Marine Academy, graduating with highest honors in 1986. In 1994, he received a Master of Science in aeronautical engineering from the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Kelly#Early_life_and_education

    (If elected, Kelly would be the second naval aviator to be vice president; the first was, of course, GHWB.)

    You are ignoring the "combat" aviation experience (singular) of then- US Navy officer Lyndon B. Johnson, who was awarded a Silver Star for this exploit, which was presented to him by FDR at a White House ceremony IIRC.

    Though navy aviation record of George Bush the Elder AND Mark Kelly arguably more substantial!
    Jimmy CArter was a submariner at a time when they had to be very good engineers under Rickover, was he not? Admittedly no combat that I know about.
    No, but he did go into a nuclear reactor to prevent a core meltdown.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2023/02/20/jimmy-carter-nuclear-reactor-navy/

    Which counts, I think.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The French security forces should have guessed something like this might have happened with regard to high speed trains. Such an obvious way of causing huge disruption.

    It also illustrates why the eastern leg of HS2 was crackers. The last thing you want to do is concentrate all the fast services from London to the North on all three main lines (East Coast, Midland and West Coast) on a single pair of tracks from Birmingham to Euston.
    Unless, of course, you want to triple the number of semi-fast trains...
    The problem was that it so ill fitted in with existing stations (Derby/Notts from a Parkway 10 miles from each, sheffield a Parkway at Meadowhall and Doncaster bypassed) that it would have released very few paths.

    The later plan, also now canned, to extend from Birmingham to Trent Jct and go from there actually into Derby, Notts, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Wakefield and Leeds would be quite sensible and would have helped the capacity problems south of Bedford.

    East Coast Line needs a completion of four tracking south of Peterborough and more efficient platform occupancy at Kings Cross (including no more "suburban" trains in the main line platforms).


    Huh? 'Released very little capacity?' It would have raised the capacity on the WCML alone from 16 to 52 tph!

    The mad, utterly dishonest plan to try and put faster trains on the MML from East Midlands Parkway would by contrast have totally destroyed capacity, probably eliminating pretty much all local and freight trains between Nottingham and Doncaster.

    You can have more trains, or you can have faster trains. You cannot have more and faster trains on a line at capacity without more tracks.

    Shapps lied to parliament over that plan. He deserved the vote his constituents gave him.
    I was talking about canning the east leg not the west leg which is the west coast relief bit and still being built.

    As to midland trains. Rubbish, they would have used existing paths to Nottingham and Sheffield and the Four Track Erewash Valley formation is little used ditto the party dismantled north midland main line to Leeds via Goose Hill.

    The capacity constraints on the midland line are Bedford to London and St Pancras Stn.
    Incorrect. The claim was that they would have used 140mph speeds on existing tracks.

    Which would have killed capacity.

    They claimed a new signalling system might help. It was a lie. That system was proposed for the WCML in 1998 and it"s never actually worked.

    That's really, really easy to grasp.

    Your claims do not stack up.

    As for stations you do know nobody uses EMP because it's in such a stupid place, don't you?
    Yes, EMP is a commercial disaster as it happens.

    You could upgrade the Erewash Valley Line, reinstating the missing 4 track and electrify it without affecting existing services much because very few use it - virtually none in places. Fast Leeds trains could then bypass Sheffield altogether on the currently freight only line to Rotherham Masburough.

    From there the choice was reopen the Midland Line to Goose Hill, build the last bit of HS2 to Leeds or run at existing speeds via Wakefield.

    The exact plans never got as far as detailed design alas as it rapidly got canned.

    The reason that the original HS2 plans would not have released any significant capacity on the East Coast Main Line or Midland Main Line is that most of the existing trains would still need to run to serve Leicester, Derby (City) Nottingham (City) Doncaster, Wakefield, and all the other intercity served places between there and London.

    It would have released zilch paths on the midland and at best two an hour on the East Coast south of York.

    As to the East Midlands Station it would have been a bigger white Elephant than East Midlands Parkway.
    Not all trains between the north and London on the ECML stop many times. That was part of the idea: route the non-stop or few-stop services via HS2 east, and let the slower expresses, local services and freight use the classic lines. HS2 was not designed to replace the classic network, but enhance it.
    You would still need much the same stopping pattern on the Midland Line to serve Leicester and Notts/Derby city centres.

    Most of the Leeds trains already stop at most of the intermediate Stations Peterborough and North thereof. It would have released the Two Edinburgh/Newcastle paths to be replaced with trains making more stops and that is about it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,974
    Sandpit said:

    Thread:

    https://x.com/lavrovskyi/status/1816609537178370412

    If this is genuinely Trump’s plan for Ukraine, I'm ready to buy a MAGA cap and wear it every day until he is elected.

    No, you totally misunderstand. Trump intends to sell out Ukraine to Putin at the first opportunity.
    Anyone who thinks Trump isn’t entirely motivated by narcissism and what transactions can be organised to feed it is totally misunderstanding Trump. He might screw Ukraine over or not, but either scenario will be fckall to do with whats’s good for Ukraine (or the USA and wider world for that matter).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079
    edited July 26
    Carnyx said:

    From previous threads: There are two things I like about Mark Kelly, his military career and his science degrees. The value of the first -- both politically and in an elected office -- should be obvious; the value of the second is important in both, but often under rated.
    " He received a Bachelor of Science in marine engineering and nautical science from the United States Merchant Marine Academy, graduating with highest honors in 1986. In 1994, he received a Master of Science in aeronautical engineering from the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Kelly#Early_life_and_education

    (If elected, Kelly would be the second naval aviator to be vice president; the first was, of course, GHWB.)

    You are ignoring the "combat" aviation experience (singular) of then- US Navy officer Lyndon B. Johnson, who was awarded a Silver Star for this exploit, which was presented to him by FDR at a White House ceremony IIRC.

    Though navy aviation record of George Bush the Elder AND Mark Kelly arguably more substantial!
    Jimmy CArter was a submariner at a time when they had to be very good engineers under Rickover, was he not? Admittedly no combat that I know about.
    Rickover interviewed him personally.

    ..I had applied for the nuclear submarine program, and Admiral Rickover was interviewing me for the job. It was the first time I met Admiral Rickover, and we sat in a large room by ourselves for more than two hours, and he let me choose any subjects I wished to discuss. Very carefully, I chose those about which I knew most at the time — current events, seamanship, music, literature, naval tactics, electronics, gunnery — and he began to ask me a series of questions of increasing difficulty. In each instance, he soon proved that I knew relatively little about the subject I had chosen. He always looked right into my eyes, and he never smiled. I was saturated with cold sweat. Finally, he asked a question and I thought I could redeem myself. He said, “How did you stand in your class at the Naval Academy?” Since I had completed my sophomore year at Georgia Tech before Annapolis as a plebe, I had done very well, and I swelled my chest with pride and answered, “Sir, I stood fifty-ninth in a class of 820!” I sat back to wait for the congratulations — which never came. Instead, the question, “Did you do your best?”

    I started to say, “Yes, sir,” but I remembered who this was and recalled several of the many times at the Academy when I could have learned more about our allies, our enemies, weapons, strategy, and so forth. I was just human. I finally gulped and said, “No, sir, I didn’t always do my best.”

    He looked at me for a long time, and then turned his chair around to end the interview. He asked one final question, which I have never been able to forget — or to answer. He said, “Why not?”

    I sat there for a while, shaken, and slowly left the room...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,604
    Nigelb said:

    Forget baking soda; start crunching numbers.

    How America’s Fastest Swimmers Use Math to Win Gold

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-americas-fastest-swimmers-use-math-to-win-gold-20240710/
    ..Would you believe that we’ve never measured anyone who was more than 60% efficient in the four strokes — freestyle, breaststroke, butterfly and backstroke? It’s basically impossible. In April, we had Paige Madden wear force sensors, and we modeled the path of her hand as she took a stroke and recovered. We computed that in the first lap of her swim, 59.1% of the force her right hand generated was propelling her in the direction she wanted to go. That is awesome.

    But by lap 8, only 42.1% was propelling her forward. Not only was she getting more tired, but her execution was starting to fall apart. So using just these insights from linear algebra, we gave her some cues about how to swim the race differently. And the next day, on lap 8, she was close to 50%. One month later, she swam her personal best.

    Our paddles don’t let you lie. We don’t let you fool yourselves.

    And this math works the same for all four strokes?

    I’ve never been able to get our force sensors to work for breaststroke. There’s too much going on. I get data, but I can’t make heads or tails out of it...

    I've started learning to swim 'properly' this year, ready to race. It's surprising how little actual strength or fitness is needed to swim fast: I swim with a couple of blokes considerably rounder than me, and who cannot run. Yet they'll swim a length ten or twenty seconds faster than me, and keep that pace up for 40 or more lengths. One of them sometimes completes three lengths in the time I take to do two, and he's older and looks far heavier than me. But his swimming technique looks effortless.

    Swimming - at least at amateur level - is far more about technique than fitness. IMV running is the other way around, with fitness meaning much more than technique for most people.

    As for cycling? I dunno. At the top level, like swimming, it'll be both strength and technique. But at a lower level? Would I be better off improving my strength, or getting a more aero bike setup?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,974
    Carnyx said:

    From previous threads: There are two things I like about Mark Kelly, his military career and his science degrees. The value of the first -- both politically and in an elected office -- should be obvious; the value of the second is important in both, but often under rated.
    " He received a Bachelor of Science in marine engineering and nautical science from the United States Merchant Marine Academy, graduating with highest honors in 1986. In 1994, he received a Master of Science in aeronautical engineering from the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Kelly#Early_life_and_education

    (If elected, Kelly would be the second naval aviator to be vice president; the first was, of course, GHWB.)

    You are ignoring the "combat" aviation experience (singular) of then- US Navy officer Lyndon B. Johnson, who was awarded a Silver Star for this exploit, which was presented to him by FDR at a White House ceremony IIRC.

    Though navy aviation record of George Bush the Elder AND Mark Kelly arguably more substantial!
    Jimmy CArter was a submariner at a time when they had to be very good engineers under Rickover, was he not? Admittedly no combat that I know about.
    Tricky Dicky also a USN man with a moderately distinguished war. Interesting how many sailors went on to govern.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Harry Enten says the Harris momentum is over hyped.

    https://x.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1816849626139406757

    He's really good.

    He's talking about current poll numbers, though.
    Let's see what they are next week.

    But yes, some good stuff. Here's an extreme demonstration of why I'm sceptical about VP selections 'delivering' their home state.

    If JD Vance's popularity in his home region (-16 pts) is any sign, it won't get better for Vance nationally (where he's historically unpopular).

    Also, Vance's favorable rating is just 5% with undecideds (i.e. not for Harris/Trump) in the prez race. His unfavorable rating is 29%.

    https://x.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1816634155972673795
    Trump picking JD Vance is almost as inexplicable as Rishi calling a July election. Vance is universally unpopular, has links to Project 2025 from which Trump is trying to distance himself, hates cats and has no regard for Trump whom he called America's Hitler.
    Even Palin, now widely regarded as a disastrous pick, had high positive approval ratings straight after the GOP convention.
    … and, it is often forgotten, had ridiculously high approval ratings in her home state.

    Indeed I recall at the time I thought she’d be a great pick (one of my less-optimal predictions!) .

    Her problem wasn’t unpopularity out of the gate (she’d not gone full proto-MAGA crazy at that point). Her problem was that it became worryingly obvious that she was too provincial and incurious in her mindset and didn’t show enough grasp of the details to be entrusted with the role.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,273
    Leon said:

    I think this seals my thesis that this corner of France is incredibly undertouristed, despite its beauty, and is thus - if you research right - remarkably good value

    How can that place be £62 a night?? In an actual palace with some of the finest river views I’ve ever seen - and in a luscious little medieval town?

    £62. That’s less than a travelodge. In Newent

    In rural France, there is no shortage of housing. There is also much less resistance to commercial development.

    Outside a few mad tourist areas, that’s the kind of price you pay for a really good hotel room.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,079
    The next big shakeout in the global EV industry is probably not that far off.

    “Thailand now has 490,000 unsold EVs, according to the Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand (EVAT), equivalent to 63% of all vehicles the country turned out in the past 12 months.”

    Thai subsidies for Chinese EV makers wreak havoc..

    https://x.com/dunne_insights/status/1816681296518873575
This discussion has been closed.