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Powered Up – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,064
edited August 4 in General
imagePowered Up – politicalbetting.com

Or why elections in 2024 were good ones to win

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,675
    Honourable first?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,182
    Honourable mention.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,490
    Robert, could you pass this piece along to Andrew Bailey ?

    Signed,
    Everyone with a mortgage.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,694
    Pulpstar said:

    Robert, could you pass this piece along to Andrew Bailey ?

    Signed,
    Everyone with a mortgage.

    Fourth, like the Tories if Jenrick is their leader in 2028.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,023

    Honourable first?

    A modest one, I think ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,023
    FPT
    ydoethur said:

    Who could possibly have foreseen this?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce58p0048r0o

    Who the actual fuck is running Crowdstrike?

    A guy called George Kurtz.

    ..In October 2009, McAfee promoted him to chief technology officer and executive vice president. Six months later, McAfee accidentally disrupted its customers' operations around the world when it pushed out a software update that deleted critical Windows XP system files and caused affected systems to bluescreen and enter a boot loop. "I'm not sure any virus writer has ever developed a piece of malware that shut down as many machines as quickly as McAfee did today," Ed Bott wrote at ZDNet...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,694
    Some much needed good cheer. Merci
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,023
    ..But the fundamentals are very simple: energy is going to become dramatically cheaper. It’s terrible news for Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran. But it’s great news for countries – like the UK – who are energy importers. ..

    It's not necessarily terrible news for Saudi.
    Thye'll continue generating vast amounts of cash for quite some time. And they will have the cheapest (and least interrupted) solar on the planet, probably.

    Also they own quite large slugs of western assets now, so they'll benefit from a general global economic uplift.

    Not great for Iran, agreed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,694
    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,021
    @rcs1000

    Interesting header - given your experience it would be interested to know your view on the effect the lower energy prices will have on the stock markets, both here and in the States.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,023
    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it

    Be careful word doesn't get around.
    The locals might tar and feather you when you turn up in the next one.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,021
    edited July 25

    Pulpstar said:

    Robert, could you pass this piece along to Andrew Bailey ?

    Signed,
    Everyone with a mortgage.

    Is this a good time to mention there are more savers than mortgage holders in the UK?
    Indeed and after decades (well, a decade +) we at last have positive real rates of interest.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,027
    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,384
    Wahay. This bodes well for a decade of national renewal under a changed Labour Party back in the service of working people.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,675
    Stocky said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Robert, could you pass this piece along to Andrew Bailey ?

    Signed,
    Everyone with a mortgage.

    Is this a good time to mention there are more savers than mortgage holders in the UK?
    Indeed and after decades (well, a decade +) we at last have positive real rates of interest.
    Yeah, we savers were persecuted for over a decade after the GFC, we were the real victims of 0.5% interest rates.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,287
    Nigelb said:

    ..But the fundamentals are very simple: energy is going to become dramatically cheaper. It’s terrible news for Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran. But it’s great news for countries – like the UK – who are energy importers. ..

    It's not necessarily terrible news for Saudi.
    Thye'll continue generating vast amounts of cash for quite some time. And they will have the cheapest (and least interrupted) solar on the planet, probably.

    Also they own quite large slugs of western assets now, so they'll benefit from a general global economic uplift.

    Not great for Iran, agreed.

    I should be working, but TSE chose now to publish my piece :smile:

    If solar panels are really cheap, then the cost of transferring energy from Saudi to Europe (or wherever) totally outweighs their increased insolation.

    And panels are going to be effectively free. I would expect installed solar capacity in most European markets to be 3x daily peak demand.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,694
    edited July 25
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it

    Be careful word doesn't get around.
    The locals might tar and feather you when you turn up in the next one.
    It is unbelievably empty. I’m typing this in the main square of beautiful Saint Eulalie-de-Cernon. That fortified Templar town with juan the blacksmith. It looks like a little French town from disneys beauty and the beast. It’s got three bars and a cute bistro

    There’s a couple of families here. French. No foreigners

    It’s 28C and cloudless and surrounded by endless green countryside that looks like the best of Dorset on a perfect day - not parched like Provence

    (I’ve just come from Provence - dropping off my daughter at an airport - it was 35C and notably more uncomfortable)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,287
    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it

    Sintra has been tourist hell for at least a decade. I would avoid it like the plague.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,287
    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,694
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it

    Sintra has been tourist hell for at least a decade. I would avoid it like the plague.
    Indeed. I went there about 5 years ago and hated it. Totally overrun. I don’t blame locals for rioting

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,479
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it

    Sintra has been tourist hell for at least a decade. I would avoid it like the plague.
    Is that the Cintra of the Convention of Cintra?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,542
    Batteries too. The second half of this decade is likely to be the breakthrough period. My own experience of household solar and battery is that it’s the latter which is contributing fastest to payback, and that’s with a retail installation cost per kWh and retail profit margin. The great thing is filling the battery from the grid at times of trough market prices for use when grid prices are high. Storing solar surplus in the summer is really a secondary benefit.

    Tesla’s install rate (mostly big projects) is now ~40kwh per year and plant capacity under construction should double to triple that very soon.

    Drop in the ocean from a global perspective but it’s high income countries most reliant on renewables that will do the big projects first. The uk would do well to build loads of it to improve the grid usefulness of all the new wind power coming online. But also as above, to re-export imported power from the European grid. If Labour are going to subsidise it, then do a scheme for the 500k households most impacted by grid outages combined with grid level.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,694
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it

    Sintra has been tourist hell for at least a decade. I would avoid it like the plague.
    Is that the Cintra of the Convention of Cintra?
    It’s the one that looks like Portmeirion
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,023
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it

    Be careful word doesn't get around.
    The locals might tar and feather you when you turn up in the next one.
    It is unbelievably empty. I’m typing this in the main square of beautiful Saint Eulalie-de-Cernon. That fortified Templar town with juan the blacksmith. It looks like a little French town from disneys beauty and the beast. It’s got three bars and a cute bistro

    There’s a couple of families here. French. No foreigners

    It’s 28C and cloudless and surrounded by endless green countryside that looks like the best of Dorset on a perfect day - not parched like Provence

    (I’ve just come from Provence - dropping off my daughter at an airport - it was 35C and notably more uncomfortable)
    I have some idea of the region, having spent a blissful family holiday in a converted farmhouse in Gers about two decades ago, marred only by a swarm of bees which came down the chimney.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,871
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ..But the fundamentals are very simple: energy is going to become dramatically cheaper. It’s terrible news for Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran. But it’s great news for countries – like the UK – who are energy importers. ..

    It's not necessarily terrible news for Saudi.
    Thye'll continue generating vast amounts of cash for quite some time. And they will have the cheapest (and least interrupted) solar on the planet, probably.

    Also they own quite large slugs of western assets now, so they'll benefit from a general global economic uplift.

    Not great for Iran, agreed.

    I should be working, but TSE chose now to publish my piece :smile:

    If solar panels are really cheap, then the cost of transferring energy from Saudi to Europe (or wherever) totally outweighs their increased insolation.

    And panels are going to be effectively free. I would expect installed solar capacity in most European markets to be 3x daily peak demand.
    "100% Solar, Wind and Batteries is just the beginning.
    Super Power is one of the greatest opportunities of our time."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zgwiQ6BoLA&t=981s
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,479
    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    Darkest? Not in the summer. You must have much thicker curtains than we do.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,694
    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    My cousin has just put 40 solar panels on his house and a small woodshed nearby.

    24 of them don't get much sunlight due to an overshadowing tree. But they will still make more on the electricity than they cost to install within about two years.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,479
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it

    Sintra has been tourist hell for at least a decade. I would avoid it like the plague.
    Is that the Cintra of the Convention of Cintra?
    It’s the one that looks like Portmeirion
    Still wondering if it is the same place, I've read about it often enough but never made the connexion.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,023
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ..But the fundamentals are very simple: energy is going to become dramatically cheaper. It’s terrible news for Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran. But it’s great news for countries – like the UK – who are energy importers. ..

    It's not necessarily terrible news for Saudi.
    Thye'll continue generating vast amounts of cash for quite some time. And they will have the cheapest (and least interrupted) solar on the planet, probably.

    Also they own quite large slugs of western assets now, so they'll benefit from a general global economic uplift.

    Not great for Iran, agreed.

    I should be working, but TSE chose now to publish my piece :smile:

    If solar panels are really cheap, then the cost of transferring energy from Saudi to Europe (or wherever) totally outweighs their increased insolation.

    And panels are going to be effectively free. I would expect installed solar capacity in most European markets to be 3x daily peak demand.
    Oh, I don't think they'll export much to Europe.
    But it will be a great place to locate energy intensive industries. Much more consistent cheap power than most of Europe.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,486
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    My cousin has just put 40 solar panels on his house and a small woodshed nearby.

    24 of them don't get much sunlight due to an overshadowing tree. But they will still make more on the electricity than they cost to install within about two years.
    Once you have the inverter, the marginal cost of new panels is pennies, so it doesn’t really matter if you put a few extra in at the same time.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,027
    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,027
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    Darkest? Not in the summer. You must have much thicker curtains than we do.
    I suppose. But Scotland is more exposed to the problem of oversupply in the summer, undersupply in the winter, as well as an imbalance in demand with the winter being cold.

    For Africa it's incredibly exciting. Cheap energy when and where it's needed most.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,669
    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    So what becomes the limiting factor?

    More importantly, what would the late David MacKay have made of it? His solar energy calculations were based on putting panels on all south-facing roofs... If the panels are expensive, you save them for optimal locations. If they become too cheap to meter, you have more of them and collect a lot more energy. Anyone know how much more?

    And how cheap that can drive the sort of engineering that sucks CO2 out of the atmosphere? (It exists, but is still more expensive than reducing CO2 production by not doing shoddy work. I think that's how I would use excess electricity from generation peaks. It doesn't matter exactly when it happens, but it will probably need to happen.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,646
    Nadine really laying into Sue Gray and spilling dirt on some of her colleagues on Twitter. Apparently more to come this evening. I’m not going to repost her nonsense but it isn’t pleasant.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,542
    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    I went to one of the top 3 Chinese Pv producers perhaps 6-7 years ago. I was struck by how much of the process that might be automated still wasn’t, particularly in quality control.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,486
    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    Sadly it’s now pretty much a Chinese monopoly on the panels, so get them before the trade wars start over electric cars.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,993
    FPT:
    moonshine said:

    JD Vance seems a difficult politician to pigeon hole.

    On the one hand he gets labelled “far right”. And yet his views on abortion and marriage equality are not far out of line with the private views of a number of prominent British MPs (not least, it is said, a recent leader of the Lib Dems).

    The “childless cat lady” quote is crass in print of course. But is made in the context of supporting the nuclear family and the drastically declining birth rate. And there can’t be too many “far right nationalists” in seemingly happy mixed race marriages?

    Now I dont share his most notable social positions. But it seems to me the labels applied to him say far more about the big shift in the Overton Window of European observers and US coastal liberals than it does him. I just wish there was more of an attempt to think through such ideological differences than throw around words such as insane, Nazi or far right. His one child one vote policy for example, doesn’t obviously sound like the brainchild of someone who seeks less democracy.

    Bryan Taylor-Cohen was debating pushing back at Piers Morgan on that. I make it 2-1 or 1-2 depending on your view.

    This is BTC's clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guoILFhA-Po
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,479
    IanB2 said:

    Nadine really laying into Sue Gray and spilling dirt on some of her colleagues on Twitter. Apparently more to come this evening. I’m not going to repost her nonsense but it isn’t pleasant.

    Her colleagues being Ms Gray's or Mrs D's colleagues, please?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,287
    moonshine said:

    Batteries too. The second half of this decade is likely to be the breakthrough period. My own experience of household solar and battery is that it’s the latter which is contributing fastest to payback, and that’s with a retail installation cost per kWh and retail profit margin. The great thing is filling the battery from the grid at times of trough market prices for use when grid prices are high. Storing solar surplus in the summer is really a secondary benefit.

    Tesla’s install rate (mostly big projects) is now ~40kwh per year and plant capacity under construction should double to triple that very soon.

    Drop in the ocean from a global perspective but it’s high income countries most reliant on renewables that will do the big projects first. The uk would do well to build loads of it to improve the grid usefulness of all the new wind power coming online. But also as above, to re-export imported power from the European grid. If Labour are going to subsidise it, then do a scheme for the 500k households most impacted by grid outages combined with grid level.

    Yep: once energy is essentially free at midday, then the real money is made by saving that energy up for later. And it's going to happen in hundreds of ways. Electric cars will be setup to charge at lunchtime, your immersion heater will heat the tank when the sun is shining, and people will install batteries everywhere.

    It's going to be a very interesting couple of years.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,600

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    So what becomes the limiting factor?

    More importantly, what would the late David MacKay have made of it? His solar energy calculations were based on putting panels on all south-facing roofs... If the panels are expensive, you save them for optimal locations. If they become too cheap to meter, you have more of them and collect a lot more energy. Anyone know how much more?

    And how cheap that can drive the sort of engineering that sucks CO2 out of the atmosphere? (It exists, but is still more expensive than reducing CO2 production by not doing shoddy work. I think that's how I would use excess electricity from generation peaks. It doesn't matter exactly when it happens, but it will probably need to happen.)
    I'd love someone knowledgeable to update his book with the latest data.

    https://www.withouthotair.com/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,993
    edited July 25
    TimS said:

    MattW said:

    Are Reform trying to sound respectable, following the Nigel's maiden speech?

    This is a good Q&A from my MP Lee Anderson, and the Health Secretary about our local hospital - which is highly rated. There's a bit of political prickle, but also useful information.
    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1815723186920526001

    I didn't realise the PFI involved renaming the hospital after a bakery business. Innovative way to get private sector investment in.
    Heh.

    Yep - a bakery business. There was a series of mills on the River Maun with 'royal connections'; the area is known as the Dukeries as there are a lorra-lorra dukes. The King's Mill there is in the Domesday Book.

    If you ask me I'll tell you that the "Kingsmill" bread brand is named after it, but I may be exaggerating a little; Allied Bakeries are in the general area, and being ABF there may well be former bakeries here, but I'm not sure how much history they have with the brand locally. And there are perhaps a few other "King's Mill"s.

    They have a solar powerstation in the reservoir, which doe 1/3 of their heating and all their cooling. I'm not sure whether that is enough to chill the balls off the wild swimmers. As T1D I don't do wild swimming (coughs and sneezes, and risks to feet).

    The hospital started as a WW2 facility for wounded Usonians.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,287
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ..But the fundamentals are very simple: energy is going to become dramatically cheaper. It’s terrible news for Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran. But it’s great news for countries – like the UK – who are energy importers. ..

    It's not necessarily terrible news for Saudi.
    Thye'll continue generating vast amounts of cash for quite some time. And they will have the cheapest (and least interrupted) solar on the planet, probably.

    Also they own quite large slugs of western assets now, so they'll benefit from a general global economic uplift.

    Not great for Iran, agreed.

    I should be working, but TSE chose now to publish my piece :smile:

    If solar panels are really cheap, then the cost of transferring energy from Saudi to Europe (or wherever) totally outweighs their increased insolation.

    And panels are going to be effectively free. I would expect installed solar capacity in most European markets to be 3x daily peak demand.
    Oh, I don't think they'll export much to Europe.
    But it will be a great place to locate energy intensive industries. Much more consistent cheap power than most of Europe.
    Fair enough, and there are plenty of highly energy intensive industries (not least of which is silicon purification for solar panels). BUT here's the thing: if energy is a lot cheaper everywhere, the arbitrage by being in a sunnier place isn't that big.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,019
    Nigelb said:

    ..But the fundamentals are very simple: energy is going to become dramatically cheaper. It’s terrible news for Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran. But it’s great news for countries – like the UK – who are energy importers. ..

    It's not necessarily terrible news for Saudi.
    Thye'll continue generating vast amounts of cash for quite some time. And they will have the cheapest (and least interrupted) solar on the planet, probably.

    Also they own quite large slugs of western assets now, so they'll benefit from a general global economic uplift.

    Not great for Iran, agreed.

    Presumably the commodity in demand becomes copper? Boom time in Chile?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,023
    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    Technology improvement. Higher yields; thinner silicon needed for the panels; factory automation etc.

    There will be hiccups along the way - quite a few of the Chinese manufacturers will fold if there's a drop in demand and/or they can't afford to upgrade their production to the latest standards. And the concentration of world production in one country presents something of a risk.

    But the trend is inexorable, even without any unpredictable technical breakthroughs.
    One of the next big things will be when production transitions from using fossil fuelled energy for manufacturing, to solar renewables. Energy costs are quite a big element of the total.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,287
    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    A solar panel is not like a barrel of oil. A barrel of oil is consumed, and once it's consumed, you need to buy another one.

    Once a solar panel is installed, it's producing energy... well... indefinitely. So, the makers of panels can "cut off" additional solar production capacity, but every day that becomes less of an issue because more panels are already installed.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,542
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ..But the fundamentals are very simple: energy is going to become dramatically cheaper. It’s terrible news for Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran. But it’s great news for countries – like the UK – who are energy importers. ..

    It's not necessarily terrible news for Saudi.
    Thye'll continue generating vast amounts of cash for quite some time. And they will have the cheapest (and least interrupted) solar on the planet, probably.

    Also they own quite large slugs of western assets now, so they'll benefit from a general global economic uplift.

    Not great for Iran, agreed.

    I should be working, but TSE chose now to publish my piece :smile:

    If solar panels are really cheap, then the cost of transferring energy from Saudi to Europe (or wherever) totally outweighs their increased insolation.

    And panels are going to be effectively free. I would expect installed solar capacity in most European markets to be 3x daily peak demand.
    Oh, I don't think they'll export much to Europe.
    But it will be a great place to locate energy intensive industries. Much more consistent cheap power than most of Europe.
    One of the biggest failings in Australian politics is not to have gone big on green aluminium. All that bauxite, land, sunshine and blue collar labour… and instead they export the ore to China so it can be refined using coal power. Another thing I’m surprised hasn’t happened yet is EV mining yellow goods. Locally powered with solar (and battery storage), no noxious emissions to deal with under ground…
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,479
    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    A solar panel is not like a barrel of oil. A barrel of oil is consumed, and once it's consumed, you need to buy another one.

    Once a solar panel is installed, it's producing energy... well... indefinitely. So, the makers of panels can "cut off" additional solar production capacity, but every day that becomes less of an issue because more panels are already installed.
    I was already wondering after reading your earlier comments, what is the working life of a solar panel?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,287
    edited July 25
    moonshine said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    I went to one of the top 3 Chinese Pv producers perhaps 6-7 years ago. I was struck by how much of the process that might be automated still wasn’t, particularly in quality control.
    It's surprisingly simple to make solar cells (from which panels are made).
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,871
    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    Here's a good summary

    Solar panels have become cheap due to several factors

    Improvements in the efficiency of converting sunlight to electricity.
    Cheaper manufacturing processes.
    China's solar panel industrial boom.
    Swanson's law, which states that as production and shipment of solar panels double, panel prices drop by 20 percent.

    I think that were going through a similar process with electric car batteries
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,866
    On topic, sort of: "The U.S. economy grew at a surprisingly robust 2.8 percent annualized rate in the second quarter, capping two years of solid expansion, despite some signs of softening.

    Gross domestic product for the quarter ending in June was double the 1.4 percent reading in the previous quarter, but reflects a general cool-down from last year’s brisk pace, according to Commerce Department data released Thursday morning."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/07/25/gdp-q2-economy/

    Unemployment edged up slightly.

    (Those interested in details may want to look at the Commerce Department report.)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,486
    FPT:
    Nigelb said:

    Here's a modest proposal for the new government's Health and Business Secretaries.

    It's hypothesised that the new obesity drugs might bankrupt the health services of several western countries - to the extent that some are suggesting that governments actually but the pharmas that produce them, not entirely tongue in cheek:

    To get a fair deal on Wegovy, buying Novo Nordisk might not be Medicare’s worst option
    https://www.statnews.com/2024/07/23/wegovy-medicare-medicaid-costs-why-not-buy-manufacturer-novo-nordisk/
    Medicare and Medicaid are facing a familiar quandary: how to provide coverage for new weight loss drugs with price tags that could effectively bankrupt the federal government’s health care budget while simultaneously ensuring continuous coverage for all other health care services used by millions of Americans.

    The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services announced in March 2024 that it would cover Wegovy (semaglutide), a new and expensive weight loss medication, for beneficiaries with cardiovascular disease and obesity. Efforts by the U.S. House of Representatives could nudge CMS to cover it more broadly for people with obesity alone.

    That would have a huge cost impact. Wegovy’s current list price in the United States is $1,349 per month. Medicare spending on this class of drugs, called GLP-1s, has increased from $57 million in 2018 to $5.7 billion in 2022, while Medicaid spending for these drugs increased from $383 million to $1.8 billion in that time period. A report by the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) estimates that treating even half of Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries with obesity would cost $166 billion per year, nearly the cost of total spending on all prescription drugs in 2022 ($175 billion).

    In contrast, the United Kingdom pays $92 per month and Denmark (where Novo Nordisk is headquartered) pays $186 per month. In an analysis one of us (M.B.) conducted with several colleagues, the estimated manufacturing costs for a biosimilar Wegovy would be no more than $13 per month — one-hundredth the selling price. That’s far from a fair deal for Medicare and Medicaid...

    Do we think Americans are slowly realising just how screwed up is their healthcare system?

    Wegovy costs around $150 out where I live. At those sort of prices, it makes every sense for half the population to be on it, given the amount of future disease that could be prevented by people losing weight.

    Perhaps the best subject for bipartisan legislation in the US, would be to allow Medicare and Medicaid to negotiate with the pharma companies, with regulation of marketing and advertising practices on the other side so there’s both stick and carrot.

    Expect the media companies, who get more than half their advertising income from the sector, to be quite vociferously against the idea.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,490
    Question - Why is the UK price cap seemingly going to rise whilst the continued downward trend of cost/MwH https://grid.iamkate.com/ seems to keep dropping ?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,282

    FPT: My very well informed golfing friend tells me this is a pretty good book:
    https://www.amazon.com/Commander-Cheat-Golf-Explains-Trump/dp/0316528080

    "Based on Reilly's own experiences with Trump as well as interviews with over 100 golf pros, amateurs, developers, and caddies, Commander in Cheat is a startling and at times hilarious indictment of Trump and his golf game. You'll learn how Trump cheats (sometimes with the help of his caddies and Secret Service agents), lies about his scores (the "Trump Bump"), tells whoppers about the rank of his courses and their worth (declaring that every one of them is worth $50 million), and tramples the etiquette of the game (driving on greens doesn't help). Trump doesn't brag so much, though, about the golf contractors he stiffs, the course neighbors he intimidates, or the way his golf decisions wind up infecting his political ones."

    Golfing POTUSs have been a thing for over a century, starting with William Howard Taft:

    https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/u-s-presidents-play-golf-donald-trump-joe-biden/

    SSI - Note that the ONLY golfing President that this article expressly accuses of cheating is . . . wait for it . . . old #45.

    Though do note what it says about LBJ:

    "According to his biographies, Lyndon B. Johnson was no stickler for the rules. One historian said that Johnson would take up to 400 swings during an 18-hole round – if he didn’t like a shot, he’d hit another until he was satisfied.

    It’s also been said that Johnson used golf rounds to sway senators into voting for the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Johnson knew by playing golf with political friends and foes, he’d get four hours (or more) of uninterrupted time with them to strengthen, or sway, their opinions."

    SSI - Seriously doubt that DJT had similar mitigating circumstances, for displaying habitual golfing dishonesty exceeding that of even the notoriously ludicrous (and visa versa) Judge Smails:

    Caddy Shack - Judge Smails's winter rules

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCvgMNnM3OA
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,023
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ..But the fundamentals are very simple: energy is going to become dramatically cheaper. It’s terrible news for Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran. But it’s great news for countries – like the UK – who are energy importers. ..

    It's not necessarily terrible news for Saudi.
    Thye'll continue generating vast amounts of cash for quite some time. And they will have the cheapest (and least interrupted) solar on the planet, probably.

    Also they own quite large slugs of western assets now, so they'll benefit from a general global economic uplift.

    Not great for Iran, agreed.

    I should be working, but TSE chose now to publish my piece :smile:

    If solar panels are really cheap, then the cost of transferring energy from Saudi to Europe (or wherever) totally outweighs their increased insolation.

    And panels are going to be effectively free. I would expect installed solar capacity in most European markets to be 3x daily peak demand.
    Oh, I don't think they'll export much to Europe.
    But it will be a great place to locate energy intensive industries. Much more consistent cheap power than most of Europe.
    Fair enough, and there are plenty of highly energy intensive industries (not least of which is silicon purification for solar panels). BUT here's the thing: if energy is a lot cheaper everywhere, the arbitrage by being in a sunnier place isn't that big.
    The other way Saudi benefits of course, is by weaning themselves off the resource curse. Which is what they're trying to do already anyway,
    If their state version of Islam wasn't so regressive, if would be a very promising place to invest.

    And dealing with a lack of fresh water, and temperatures which sometimes aren't conducive to living, becomes a LOT easier if you have unlimited, almost free energy.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,600
    ARSTechnica's latest on Crowdstrike:

    It looks as though they did not test the update *at all* in a real system; instead, relying on a validator to check the update. A validator that did not work properly...

    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/07/crowdstrike-blames-testing-bugs-for-security-update-that-took-down-8-5m-windows-pcs/

    Note that this was not an update to patch an urgent zero-day bug; it was an update designed to collect telemetry. It could have waited a few hours, or days, for a thorough test.

    I'm a greybeard; probably always have been. As an engineer, I liked following processes and redesigning processes to incorporate lessons from experienced and envisaged failures. There's *no way* we would have released anything with that sort of process; the risks are just too large.

    It seems they did very frequent updates; but that is no reason not to have a thorough process. You just design the process to be as fast as possible.

    I do wonder if Crowdstrike and other companies have engineers/management more interested in the stock price than doing things the correct way; in other words, Boeing circa 2010-20.

    I don't expect these tech companies to learn any lessons from this.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,342
    rcs1000 said:

    moonshine said:

    Batteries too. The second half of this decade is likely to be the breakthrough period. My own experience of household solar and battery is that it’s the latter which is contributing fastest to payback, and that’s with a retail installation cost per kWh and retail profit margin. The great thing is filling the battery from the grid at times of trough market prices for use when grid prices are high. Storing solar surplus in the summer is really a secondary benefit.

    Tesla’s install rate (mostly big projects) is now ~40kwh per year and plant capacity under construction should double to triple that very soon.

    Drop in the ocean from a global perspective but it’s high income countries most reliant on renewables that will do the big projects first. The uk would do well to build loads of it to improve the grid usefulness of all the new wind power coming online. But also as above, to re-export imported power from the European grid. If Labour are going to subsidise it, then do a scheme for the 500k households most impacted by grid outages combined with grid level.

    Yep: once energy is essentially free at midday, then the real money is made by saving that energy up for later. And it's going to happen in hundreds of ways. Electric cars will be setup to charge at lunchtime, your immersion heater will heat the tank when the sun is shining, and people will install batteries everywhere.

    It's going to be a very interesting couple of years.
    Countries with lots of sun sometimes put the whole hot water tank on the roof, sometimes just on its own, sometimes specially shaped:



    See these a lot in the med on flat roofs.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,603
    a
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    Technology improvement. Higher yields; thinner silicon needed for the panels; factory automation etc.

    There will be hiccups along the way - quite a few of the Chinese manufacturers will fold if there's a drop in demand and/or they can't afford to upgrade their production to the latest standards. And the concentration of world production in one country presents something of a risk.

    But the trend is inexorable, even without any unpredictable technical breakthroughs.
    One of the next big things will be when production transitions from using fossil fuelled energy for manufacturing, to solar renewables. Energy costs are quite a big element of the total.
    The improvements are also not in exotic break through tech. But incremental improvements on the existing.

    And like Lithium batteries, there are years of these improvements working their way from lab to production. The improvements don’t go instantly from lab to factory. There is a winding snake of a process to get there. So you have a pipeline of improvements on the way - they exist now, just not on the panels you can buy. Maybe 3-5 years from now…
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,694
    Pulpstar said:

    Question - Why is the UK price cap seemingly going to rise whilst the continued downward trend of cost/MwH https://grid.iamkate.com/ seems to keep dropping ?

    Have we considered the possibility that OFGEM are completely useless and will do whatever the energy companies want?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,993
    edited July 25
    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it

    I did a school French Exchange to Rodez.

    Have you done the Trou de Bozouls - that's a Tourist Hole, not a Tourist Hell?

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Les+parenthèses+occitanes/@44.4705613,2.7164596,450m/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,486
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ..But the fundamentals are very simple: energy is going to become dramatically cheaper. It’s terrible news for Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran. But it’s great news for countries – like the UK – who are energy importers. ..

    It's not necessarily terrible news for Saudi.
    Thye'll continue generating vast amounts of cash for quite some time. And they will have the cheapest (and least interrupted) solar on the planet, probably.

    Also they own quite large slugs of western assets now, so they'll benefit from a general global economic uplift.

    Not great for Iran, agreed.

    I should be working, but TSE chose now to publish my piece :smile:

    If solar panels are really cheap, then the cost of transferring energy from Saudi to Europe (or wherever) totally outweighs their increased insolation.

    And panels are going to be effectively free. I would expect installed solar capacity in most European markets to be 3x daily peak demand.
    Oh, I don't think they'll export much to Europe.
    But it will be a great place to locate energy intensive industries. Much more consistent cheap power than most of Europe.
    Fair enough, and there are plenty of highly energy intensive industries (not least of which is silicon purification for solar panels). BUT here's the thing: if energy is a lot cheaper everywhere, the arbitrage by being in a sunnier place isn't that big.
    The other way Saudi benefits of course, is by weaning themselves off the resource curse. Which is what they're trying to do already anyway,
    If their state version of Islam wasn't so regressive, if would be a very promising place to invest.

    And dealing with a lack of fresh water, and temperatures which sometimes aren't conducive to living, becomes a LOT easier if you have unlimited, almost free energy.

    Dubai waves hello, that’s been their business plan for two decades now.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,993
    edited July 25
    IanB2 said:

    Nadine really laying into Sue Gray and spilling dirt on some of her colleagues on Twitter. Apparently more to come this evening. I’m not going to repost her nonsense but it isn’t pleasant.

    I'm tempted to mention cat lady - Meoww - but I'd better not.

    Having read the first bit, it's perhaps the stuff the Express wouldn't pay her for.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,479
    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    A solar panel is not like a barrel of oil. A barrel of oil is consumed, and once it's consumed, you need to buy another one.

    Once a solar panel is installed, it's producing energy... well... indefinitely. So, the makers of panels can "cut off" additional solar production capacity, but every day that becomes less of an issue because more panels are already installed.
    I was already wondering after reading your earlier comments, what is the working life of a solar panel?
    Well, in the first couple of years you'll lose 7-8% of production capacity as you get some surface oxidation. After that annual power losses are typically very small - say 0.25%-0.5% per year. So it'll take a long time before they become worth replacing.
    Many thanks, that's very interesting.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,486

    ARSTechnica's latest on Crowdstrike:

    It looks as though they did not test the update *at all* in a real system; instead, relying on a validator to check the update. A validator that did not work properly...

    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/07/crowdstrike-blames-testing-bugs-for-security-update-that-took-down-8-5m-windows-pcs/

    Note that this was not an update to patch an urgent zero-day bug; it was an update designed to collect telemetry. It could have waited a few hours, or days, for a thorough test.

    I'm a greybeard; probably always have been. As an engineer, I liked following processes and redesigning processes to incorporate lessons from experienced and envisaged failures. There's *no way* we would have released anything with that sort of process; the risks are just too large.

    It seems they did very frequent updates; but that is no reason not to have a thorough process. You just design the process to be as fast as possible.

    I do wonder if Crowdstrike and other companies have engineers/management more interested in the stock price than doing things the correct way; in other words, Boeing circa 2010-20.

    I don't expect these tech companies to learn any lessons from this.

    When you say greybeard, you mean that you don’t treat your paying customers as unwitting beta testers.

    By total co-incidence, I received a marketing email from Trend Micro this morning, offering some very good discounts for new customers…
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,993
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    A solar panel is not like a barrel of oil. A barrel of oil is consumed, and once it's consumed, you need to buy another one.

    Once a solar panel is installed, it's producing energy... well... indefinitely. So, the makers of panels can "cut off" additional solar production capacity, but every day that becomes less of an issue because more panels are already installed.
    I was already wondering after reading your earlier comments, what is the working life of a solar panel?
    Well, in the first couple of years you'll lose 7-8% of production capacity as you get some surface oxidation. After that annual power losses are typically very small - say 0.25%-0.5% per year. So it'll take a long time before they become worth replacing.
    Many thanks, that's very interesting.
    Mine have a 90% at 20 years "guarantee". But they are good ones.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,694
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it

    I did a school French Exchange to Rodez.

    Have you done the Trou de Bozouls - that's a Tourist Hole, not a Tourist Hell?

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Les+parenthèses+occitanes/@44.4705613,2.7164596,450m/
    Rodez is pleasant enough. But unspectacular in several ways. Its main advantage, I now realise, it’s that its little airport gives excellent access to l’Aveyron and Lozere
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,694
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nadine really laying into Sue Gray and spilling dirt on some of her colleagues on Twitter. Apparently more to come this evening. I’m not going to repost her nonsense but it isn’t pleasant.

    I'm tempted to mention cat lady - Meoww - but I'd better not.

    Having read the first bit, it's perhaps the stuff the Express wouldn't pay her for.
    Guess Dorries is still sore that her not at all romantic interest Massive Johnson was damaged by a civil servant who called out his crimes instead of covering them up?

    And is assuming, as I am, that Gray is now going to replace the egregious Dr Case?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    A solar panel is not like a barrel of oil. A barrel of oil is consumed, and once it's consumed, you need to buy another one.

    Once a solar panel is installed, it's producing energy... well... indefinitely. So, the makers of panels can "cut off" additional solar production capacity, but every day that becomes less of an issue because more panels are already installed.
    I was already wondering after reading your earlier comments, what is the working life of a solar panel?
    Well, in the first couple of years you'll lose 7-8% of production capacity as you get some surface oxidation. After that annual power losses are typically very small - say 0.25%-0.5% per year. So it'll take a long time before they become worth replacing.
    Many thanks, that's very interesting.
    Of course, keeping 90% of its productive capacity for 30+ years means they won't get replaced when they wear out, they will get replaced when the most recent solar panel technology us sufficiently more productive to be worth the replacement cost.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,023
    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    Here's a good summary

    Solar panels have become cheap due to several factors

    Improvements in the efficiency of converting sunlight to electricity.
    Cheaper manufacturing processes.
    China's solar panel industrial boom.
    Swanson's law, which states that as production and shipment of solar panels double, panel prices drop by 20 percent.

    I think that were going through a similar process with electric car batteries
    Battery prices have dropped 55% since the start of last year. Which is insane.
    Yes, grid storage suddenly doesn't look quite such a blue sky idea.
    I remarked on its sudden growth spurt a few days ago.

    Trump's "drill baby drill" schtick - particularly when the US is already the world's largest fossil fuel producer, and has been self sufficient for a while - is utterly redundant.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,871
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    Technology improvement. Higher yields; thinner silicon needed for the panels; factory automation etc.

    There will be hiccups along the way - quite a few of the Chinese manufacturers will fold if there's a drop in demand and/or they can't afford to upgrade their production to the latest standards. And the concentration of world production in one country presents something of a risk.

    But the trend is inexorable, even without any unpredictable technical breakthroughs.
    One of the next big things will be when production transitions from using fossil fuelled energy for manufacturing, to solar renewables. Energy costs are quite a big element of the total.
    Also there is a technological breakthrough awaiting productionising - using Perovskite multi-junction solar cells.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perovskite_solar_cell
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,282
    AP - Fires burning in California, Oregon, Arizona, Washington and other Western states, as well as Canada, have filled the skies in regions of the Western U.S. with smoke and haze, forcing some affected areas to declare air quality alerts or advisories.

    As of Wednesday, there were 79 large active wildfires across the country being managed that have burned 1,431,460 acres (579,292 hectares), according to the National Interagency Fire Center. Evacuation orders are in effect for 15 fires in the Northwest, where fires continue to show active to extreme behavior. Communities near several fires in California, the Northern Rockies and the Great Basin are also under evacuation orders. . . .

    SSI - So far western WA State, on the (relatively) west side of the Cascade Mountains, has mostly been spared from wildfire smoke and it's impacts. Because so far this wildfire season the prevailing winds have been from west and north NOT east and south.

    However, we are bracing ourselves, because sure as God made little green apples, at some point in the next several months, western WA is gonna get it. It being choking smoke and unhealthy to dangerous air quality. Even the most anti-mask PBer would definitely consider wearing one - a GOOD one capable of filtering out mircoparticles - during such episodes.

    Worse thing for me personally, is lack of air conditioning in my humble abode, situation common in the Seattle & vicinity due to our traditionally temperate climate. Which has changed pretty significantly - and noticeably - during the decades since I moved to the Emerald City.

    The only way I have to cool my apartment is by opening the windows and turning on the fans - NOT recommended during wildfire smoke emergencies. SO if the air is murky AND the temperature is high . . . ugh.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,287
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    Here's a good summary

    Solar panels have become cheap due to several factors

    Improvements in the efficiency of converting sunlight to electricity.
    Cheaper manufacturing processes.
    China's solar panel industrial boom.
    Swanson's law, which states that as production and shipment of solar panels double, panel prices drop by 20 percent.

    I think that were going through a similar process with electric car batteries
    Battery prices have dropped 55% since the start of last year. Which is insane.
    Yes, grid storage suddenly doesn't look quite such a blue sky idea.
    I remarked on its sudden growth spurt a few days ago.

    Trump's "drill baby drill" schtick - particularly when the US is already the world's largest fossil fuel producer, and has been self sufficient for a while - is utterly redundant.
    You can't buck the market.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,287
    WillG said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    A solar panel is not like a barrel of oil. A barrel of oil is consumed, and once it's consumed, you need to buy another one.

    Once a solar panel is installed, it's producing energy... well... indefinitely. So, the makers of panels can "cut off" additional solar production capacity, but every day that becomes less of an issue because more panels are already installed.
    I was already wondering after reading your earlier comments, what is the working life of a solar panel?
    Well, in the first couple of years you'll lose 7-8% of production capacity as you get some surface oxidation. After that annual power losses are typically very small - say 0.25%-0.5% per year. So it'll take a long time before they become worth replacing.
    Many thanks, that's very interesting.
    Of course, keeping 90% of its productive capacity for 30+ years means they won't get replaced when they wear out, they will get replaced when the most recent solar panel technology us sufficiently more productive to be worth the replacement cost.
    That is very true.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,027
    edited July 25
    WillG said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    A solar panel is not like a barrel of oil. A barrel of oil is consumed, and once it's consumed, you need to buy another one.

    Once a solar panel is installed, it's producing energy... well... indefinitely. So, the makers of panels can "cut off" additional solar production capacity, but every day that becomes less of an issue because more panels are already installed.
    I was already wondering after reading your earlier comments, what is the working life of a solar panel?
    Well, in the first couple of years you'll lose 7-8% of production capacity as you get some surface oxidation. After that annual power losses are typically very small - say 0.25%-0.5% per year. So it'll take a long time before they become worth replacing.
    Many thanks, that's very interesting.
    Of course, keeping 90% of its productive capacity for 30+ years means they won't get replaced when they wear out, they will get replaced when the most recent solar panel technology us sufficiently more productive to be worth the replacement cost.
    There might be a business opportunity of replacing panels and re-exporting the old ones to poorer countries. That would mean they get replaced sooner than in your example.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,287
    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    Here's a good summary

    Solar panels have become cheap due to several factors

    Improvements in the efficiency of converting sunlight to electricity.
    Cheaper manufacturing processes.
    China's solar panel industrial boom.
    Swanson's law, which states that as production and shipment of solar panels double, panel prices drop by 20 percent.

    I think that were going through a similar process with electric car batteries
    Battery prices have dropped 55% since the start of last year. Which is insane.
    As an aside, this is one of the reasons why Tesla has struggled. They got out first with massive battery factories with dramatically lower prices. And then the rest of the world caught up, and they lost the biggest part of their cost advantage.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,282
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nadine really laying into Sue Gray and spilling dirt on some of her colleagues on Twitter. Apparently more to come this evening. I’m not going to repost her nonsense but it isn’t pleasant.

    I'm tempted to mention cat lady - Meoww - but I'd better not.

    Having read the first bit, it's perhaps the stuff the Express wouldn't pay her for.
    Guess Dorries is still sore that her not at all romantic interest Massive Johnson was damaged by a civil servant who called out his crimes instead of covering them up?

    And is assuming, as I am, that Gray is now going to replace the egregious Dr Case?
    Nadine Dorries ain't no Lady, that's for sure.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,993
    edited July 25
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    My cousin has just put 40 solar panels on his house and a small woodshed nearby.

    24 of them don't get much sunlight due to an overshadowing tree. But they will still make more on the electricity than they cost to install within about two years.
    That's quite interesting. I have something like 9.93kWp (35 panels iirc) which cost £11,750 in 2016 grid connected and all in. It was an unbeatable investment as it reduced iHT on the parental estate.

    The impression I get is that grid connections are a little trickier these days in the UK once you go above 3.68kWp, so there's a but of a trend to make part of it not-grid-connected.

    How is your cousin's set up?

    My very nice new neighbours are about to tackle the enormous lime and horse chestnut trees hanging over part of my roof that the previous one never did, which will help some more.

    RIchard needs to make sure they don't look pastiche.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,008
    Interesting header.

    I know there will be a lot of talk about being reliant on Chinese imports to deliver solar. But does it really matter?

    We are already importing energy from unstable countries. And that requires new gas and oil to come from them each year. Replacing that with a 'one-off' import of solar panels from much more politically stable China sounds a better trade-off. And each year we increase the proportion of our energy consumption from renewables. In the long-run you become self-sufficient in energy production.

    Southern Europe and Northern Africa should be absolutely covered in solar panels with interconnectors to the UK, Germany etc.

    We should do the same for onshore wind in the UK.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,587
    I just wanted to memorialise the fact that after 25 years of Vodaphone , I have given them the inverted Winston Churchill salute. I hope my new provider will not let me down.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,694
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    My cousin has just put 40 solar panels on his house and a small woodshed nearby.

    24 of them don't get much sunlight due to an overshadowing tree. But they will still make more on the electricity than they cost to install within about two years.
    That's quite interesting. I have something like 9.93kWp (35 panels iirc) which cost £11,750 in 2016 grid connected and all in. It was an unbeatable investment as it reduced iHT on the parental estate.

    The impression I get is that grid connections are a little trickier these days in the UK once you go above 3.68kWp, so there's a but of a trend to make part of it not-grid-connected.

    How is your cousin's set up?

    My very nice new neighbours are about to tackle the enormous lime and horse chestnut trees hanging over part of my roof that the previous one never did, which will help some more.
    As far as I know, it's all connected to the grid, although we talking in general rather than specifics.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,282

    I just wanted to memorialise the fact that after 25 years of Vodaphone , I have given them the inverted Winston Churchill salute. I hope my new provider will not let me down.

    Hope springs eternal! As fellow sufferer, my very best wishes.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,027

    I just wanted to memorialise the fact that after 25 years of Vodaphone , I have given them the inverted Winston Churchill salute. I hope my new provider will not let me down.

    Was there an issue? Literally half way through setting up a new contract with them for mobile and broadband.

    All this excited talk of solar panels while fibre and 5g is still infuriatingly inconsistent, even in a big city .
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,694

    I just wanted to memorialise the fact that after 25 years of Vodaphone , I have given them the inverted Winston Churchill salute. I hope my new provider will not let me down.

    That's the triumph of hope over experience.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,282

    On topic, sort of: "The U.S. economy grew at a surprisingly robust 2.8 percent annualized rate in the second quarter, capping two years of solid expansion, despite some signs of softening.

    Gross domestic product for the quarter ending in June was double the 1.4 percent reading in the previous quarter, but reflects a general cool-down from last year’s brisk pace, according to Commerce Department data released Thursday morning."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/07/25/gdp-q2-economy/

    Unemployment edged up slightly.

    (Those interested in details may want to look at the Commerce Department report.)

    Then check out the Agriculture Department report:

    Trading Places - Orange Crop Report
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4piJqApTgM
  • eekeek Posts: 27,614
    ydoethur said:

    I just wanted to memorialise the fact that after 25 years of Vodaphone , I have given them the inverted Winston Churchill salute. I hope my new provider will not let me down.

    That's the triumph of hope over experience.
    It depends - Smarty / Lyca / GiffGaff provide the same service for peanuts compared to the prices Vodafone want...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,993
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @Andy_JS

    “The anti-tourism revolt continues.

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/portuguese-protesters-battling-tourist-hell-call-for-guerrilla-action-327vp3x7c

    "Portuguese town beloved by Byron turning into ‘amusement park’

    People living in Sintra — once hailed as the most delightful town in Europe — say mass tourism has turned it into a ‘tourist hell’ amid calls for ‘guerrilla action’"”

    This is only going to get worse. Partly for the reasons mentioned in the threader. Wealthier consumers - worldwide - all wanting to travel

    It’s why, professionally, I get excited by a place like Aveyron which is gorgeous and sunny and charming and yet barely touristed. And then I go and ruin it

    I did a school French Exchange to Rodez.

    Have you done the Trou de Bozouls - that's a Tourist Hole, not a Tourist Hell?

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Les+parenthèses+occitanes/@44.4705613,2.7164596,450m/
    Rodez is pleasant enough. But unspectacular in several ways. Its main advantage, I now realise, it’s that its little airport gives excellent access to l’Aveyron and Lozere
    I remember the July 14th fireworks. And a fairly noominous cathedral.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,490
    edited July 25
    Eabhal said:

    I just wanted to memorialise the fact that after 25 years of Vodaphone , I have given them the inverted Winston Churchill salute. I hope my new provider will not let me down.

    Was there an issue? Literally half way through setting up a new contract with them for mobile and broadband.

    All this excited talk of solar panels while fibre and 5g is still infuriatingly inconsistent, even in a big city .
    Remember the "correct price" for a SIM only plan should be about 7 to 8 pounds a month. Mobile telephony is one of the areas of the economy that has happily not been subject to the inflation the rest of it has. I've got two SIMs with 3 for £7 and £8.63/mth at the moment. 20 or so gig on each/mth
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,027
    Pulpstar said:

    Eabhal said:

    I just wanted to memorialise the fact that after 25 years of Vodaphone , I have given them the inverted Winston Churchill salute. I hope my new provider will not let me down.

    Was there an issue? Literally half way through setting up a new contract with them for mobile and broadband.

    All this excited talk of solar panels while fibre and 5g is still infuriatingly inconsistent, even in a big city .
    Remember the "correct price" for a SIM only plan should be about 7 to 8 pounds a month. Mobile telephony is one of the areas of the economy that has happily not been subject to the inflation the rest of it has.
    Yes, bagged that and used it to piggy back a current customer discount on the broadband.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,675
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just wanted to memorialise the fact that after 25 years of Vodaphone , I have given them the inverted Winston Churchill salute. I hope my new provider will not let me down.

    That's the triumph of hope over experience.
    It depends - Smarty / Lyca / GiffGaff provide the same service for peanuts compared to the prices Vodafone want...
    EE is the best.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,884
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    ..But the fundamentals are very simple: energy is going to become dramatically cheaper. It’s terrible news for Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran. But it’s great news for countries – like the UK – who are energy importers. ..

    It's not necessarily terrible news for Saudi.
    Thye'll continue generating vast amounts of cash for quite some time. And they will have the cheapest (and least interrupted) solar on the planet, probably.

    Also they own quite large slugs of western assets now, so they'll benefit from a general global economic uplift.

    Not great for Iran, agreed.

    Presumably the commodity in demand becomes copper? Boom time in Chile?
    When we go cashless we can melt down all the 1p and 2p coins.*


    *Sadly, "copper" coins are now made of steel.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,884

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just wanted to memorialise the fact that after 25 years of Vodaphone , I have given them the inverted Winston Churchill salute. I hope my new provider will not let me down.

    That's the triumph of hope over experience.
    It depends - Smarty / Lyca / GiffGaff provide the same service for peanuts compared to the prices Vodafone want...
    EE is the best.
    English Electric?

    37s. 40s. 50s. Deltics.

    Too right!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,023
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It's quite something to see the fields around Edinburgh Airport, in deepest, darkest Scotland, starting to be covered in solar panels.

    If it makes sense to do it up here...

    We're redoing the frontage of our house, and our builder said to us "do you want me to cover the concrete blocks with solar panels, it's cheaper than wood?"

    Our front doesn't get much direct sunlight, but if it's the cheapest building material, then I mean... why not?
    Is there an underlying reason why they have become cheap, other than Chinese manufacturing going crazy? Are they making them at a loss? Is there a risk they could cut supply and crush western economic growth?
    Here's a good summary

    Solar panels have become cheap due to several factors

    Improvements in the efficiency of converting sunlight to electricity.
    Cheaper manufacturing processes.
    China's solar panel industrial boom.
    Swanson's law, which states that as production and shipment of solar panels double, panel prices drop by 20 percent.

    I think that were going through a similar process with electric car batteries
    Battery prices have dropped 55% since the start of last year. Which is insane.
    Yes, grid storage suddenly doesn't look quite such a blue sky idea.
    I remarked on its sudden growth spurt a few days ago.

    Trump's "drill baby drill" schtick - particularly when the US is already the world's largest fossil fuel producer, and has been self sufficient for a while - is utterly redundant.
    You can't buck the market.
    No, but you can do considerable damage to your country by trying.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,479

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    I just wanted to memorialise the fact that after 25 years of Vodaphone , I have given them the inverted Winston Churchill salute. I hope my new provider will not let me down.

    That's the triumph of hope over experience.
    It depends - Smarty / Lyca / GiffGaff provide the same service for peanuts compared to the prices Vodafone want...
    EE is the best.
    English Electric?

    37s. 40s. 50s. Deltics.

    Too right!
    Lightnings too.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,675
    Eabhal said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Eabhal said:

    I just wanted to memorialise the fact that after 25 years of Vodaphone , I have given them the inverted Winston Churchill salute. I hope my new provider will not let me down.

    Was there an issue? Literally half way through setting up a new contract with them for mobile and broadband.

    All this excited talk of solar panels while fibre and 5g is still infuriatingly inconsistent, even in a big city .
    Remember the "correct price" for a SIM only plan should be about 7 to 8 pounds a month. Mobile telephony is one of the areas of the economy that has happily not been subject to the inflation the rest of it has.
    Yes, bagged that and used it to piggy back a current customer discount on the broadband.
    I am currently paying EE £19 a month and they provide me with unlimited calls, data, and texts, uncapped speeds, and Apple Music which normally costs me £10.99 a month.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,085
    Why are not solar panels not automatically fitted to new houses? Three new estates have recently been built near us and not a solar panel in sight!
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,842
    Fascinating and hopeful article. Thanks Robert.

    Due you have any figures for the current UK/world % of energy from solar/renewables and future projections for the same with timescales?

    Also what will it mean for the future of petrol vehicles? Cheaper petrol and less oil dependence means petrol vehicles become cheaper to run and less likely to become redundant? Or Electric vehicles become so cheap to run that petrol vehicles are too expensive a choice comparatively? (Vested interest here. We are thinking of buying a
    diesel campervan soon.)
This discussion has been closed.