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It’s getting very messy – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    My daily photo is of Aries, last night

    Eat crow, Vincent


    Lovely part of the world. Before we married and Mrs Seal went to Arles when we got back together in 2005. Very happy memories.
    Aye. Gorgeous. We’ve moved on to the hottest apartment in the Camargue which - it turns out - has no aircon and it’s about 74C in the shade

    Iced drinks are being taken
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,808
    Foss said:

    MattW said:

    My picture of the day.

    Matt Gaetz is a Star Trek alien, but I'm not sure which one. Any ideas?

    I reckon those eyebrows are late 1970s Vulcan.

    A Talaxian? Or one of the fake ones from Galaxy Quest?
    "Deception. Lies. We have become aware of these concepts only recently, in our dealings with Sarris. Often Sarris will say one thing, and do another. Promise us mercy and deliver destruction. It is a concept we are beginning to learn at some great cost."
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    Pulpstar said:

    Biden, Harris and the rest: I've lost my nerve since this morning and cashed out completely.

    It's a hell of a market
    I reckon Biden still tries to cling on, and Harris is too short, so I've laid, but let's be honest: I have no idea what's going on.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,114
    boulay said:

    DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Detheaded so FPT:

    Brains Trust

    Do any of us know about Scottish Sentencing Guidelines for Causing Serious Injury by Careless Driving?

    I've just read an account of an "Expert Driver" (stunts for C4) who drove straight across a mini roundabout and mowed a cyclist down breaking his shoulder blade (Hi Viz, LED beacon on the cycle), with a witness, and then did the traditional "the cyclist raced out and fell over in front of me" lie to Court, despite different behaviour at the scene. And a "moment of distraction" mitigation.

    He was also warned that he could be in contempt of court, when he interrupted the judge.

    He was given a £300 fine and a 12 month ban.

    I'm interested that that does not even reach the bottom of the scale in England, which for that offence starts at a Community Order and a 12 month ban.

    How does this work in Scotland? @Eabhal ?

    Report here, Aberdeen Courier:
    https://archive.ph/8MoPT

    Of course in England and Scotland we also need those causing death or serious injury by careless cycling or indeed dangerous cycling laws the government has promised to bring in so cyclists can be prosecuted on the same terms as drivers can if they injure or kill a pedestrian
    Helpful hint: consider suggesting that the Conservative Party demands laws to see hedgehogs taken to court for obstructing respectable Tory-voting drivers.
    Sod hedgehogs, it’s the bastards who drive Honda Jazz who need locking up for the disruption to the roads. I think the moment someone buys one a signal should go at the DVLA and the driver is ordered in to retake their test.
    Black Range Rovers. I volunteered at the Stour Music Festival last month and got put on car park duty. Two of the fuckers drove at me without stopping, hi viz and everything. Maybe they were really really keen not to miss any Early Music but even so…

    (My mother drives a Honda Jazz. Can’t say I disagree with the above post)
    I would rather live in a world with Range Rover drivers than Honda Jazz drivers. I keep making the fatal error of being nice and letting them out at junctions then cursing them as they proceed to drive massively under the limit until they get to a really low speed limit zone and they drive at the same speed as before which is now over the limit so they can’t even use the caution and safety excuse.
    Does anyone have an answer to my question ? :wink:
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    My daily photo is of Aries, last night

    Eat crow, Vincent


    Is that looking towards the bank of the Rhône?
    The little guy is definitely the dwarf from Don't Look Now. Lucky escape.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    🚨UPDATE: President Biden just released the following statement:

    “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone.

    “The stakes are high, and the choice is clear. Together, we will win.”
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Apparently Cruella wants to join RefUK. How long before she falls out with NFF?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I know Tester has support but I think he's definitely testing it by suggesting Biden AND Harris need to go. I think he'll probably lose Montana now.

    My money is on Harris getting the nod.
    The Tester idea seems very much a niche view.

    But hedging your bets is sensible in such a febrile market.
    Yes. The delegates have already been elected for the Biden/Harris ticket Fair enough if one half of that ticket pulls out leaving the other half as the choice for president. Something else for the Biden/Harris delegates to pick random other candidates.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,571
    Nunu5 said:

    🚨UPDATE: President Biden just released the following statement:

    “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone.

    “The stakes are high, and the choice is clear. Together, we will win.”

    Oh dear. He’s digging in.

    25th Amendment or he’s the nominee.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361

    UK government debt highest since 1962
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgxqzp2zdw4o

    Two weeks and Labour's already bankrupted the country.

    Plays into Labour's "much worse than we were told" hand.
    But decisions already made on oil and gas will worsen it, at the same time as worsening worldwide CO2 emissions.
    I’m sure Ed thinks it’s worth it for the likes and retweets he gets from the Green New Deal morons.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    My daily photo is of Aries, last night

    Eat crow, Vincent


    Is that looking towards the bank of the Rhône?
    Yes. Rue Genive a few yards from the Rhone

    The sinister “Don’t Look Now” dwarf is actually my daughter. For some reason she came out all blurred and scary. She isn’t that in real life
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846
    Nunu5 said:

    🚨UPDATE: President Biden just released the following statement:

    “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone.

    “The stakes are high, and the choice is clear. Together, we will win.”

    Leaving aside Biden's health issues, attacking Project 2025 is great but aiui even Trump had his doubts. Has he now signed up?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    Sandpit said:

    Nunu5 said:

    🚨UPDATE: President Biden just released the following statement:

    “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone.

    “The stakes are high, and the choice is clear. Together, we will win.”

    Oh dear. He’s digging in.

    25th Amendment or he’s the nominee.
    On the one hand this is alarming and tragic, on the other hand it is fucking hilarious because the lying gaslighting democrats brought it all on themselves

    ITS JUST A STAMMER
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846
    Scott_xP said:

    Apparently Cruella wants to join RefUK. How long before she falls out with NFF?

    Does she? Suella wants the parties to merge but I'd be surprised if she jumped ship, even after she loses the Tory leadership race. Is there betting on it?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    My daily photo is of Aries, last night

    Eat crow, Vincent


    Is that looking towards the bank of the Rhône?
    Yes. Rue Genive a few yards from the Rhone

    The sinister “Don’t Look Now” dwarf is actually my daughter. For some reason she came out all blurred and scary. She isn’t that in real life
    Fantastic. Am suitably jealous. Eat and drink well.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    Nunu5 said:

    🚨UPDATE: President Biden just released the following statement:

    “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone.

    “The stakes are high, and the choice is clear. Together, we will win.”

    He's not going anywhere.

    Glad I held.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    In practical terms, what is the latest time Biden can be deposed (without resorting to the 25th)? ie when is the date at which he IS the candidate unless he dies or retires, and no one else can be chosen?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,030
    MattW said:

    My picture of the day.

    Matt Gaetz is a Star Trek alien, but I'm not sure which one. Any ideas?

    I reckon those eyebrows are late 1970s Vulcan.

    Hedging his bets, in case the politics thing doesn't work out.
    (I hear there's an audition for a live action Beavis and Butthead remake.)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,410
    Taz said:

    UK government debt highest since 1962
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgxqzp2zdw4o

    Two weeks and Labour's already bankrupted the country.

    Plays into Labour's "much worse than we were told" hand.
    But decisions already made on oil and gas will worsen it, at the same time as worsening worldwide CO2 emissions.
    I’m sure Ed thinks it’s worth it for the likes and retweets he gets from the Green New Deal morons.
    He made less of a mess out of that bacon sandwich.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    My daily photo is of Aries, last night

    Eat crow, Vincent


    Is that looking towards the bank of the Rhône?
    Yes. Rue Genive a few yards from the Rhone

    The sinister “Don’t Look Now” dwarf is actually my daughter. For some reason she came out all blurred and scary. She isn’t that in real life
    Fantastic. Am suitably jealous. Eat and drink well.
    We did three lovely nights there. We’re now in Aigues Mortes

    Food was nice wine is great

    The best food was actually west African. We had a Senegalese “tchou curry” which is entirely new to me but rather pleasant. And properly spicy
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,058

    Related to the topic: People have begun to call J. D. Vance a "shapeshifter". It's not a compliment.

    (makes "Quantum Leap" noise)

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,058
    edited July 19
    ...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    My picture of the day.

    Matt Gaetz is a Star Trek alien, but I'm not sure which one. Any ideas?

    I reckon those eyebrows are late 1970s Vulcan.

    Hedging his bets, in case the politics thing doesn't work out.
    (I hear there's an audition for a live action Beavis and Butthead remake.)
    Another Osmond.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,577
    Pelosi ally says that Biden has to go.

    https://x.com/jakesherman/status/1814345452260581662
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,571
    Leon said:

    In practical terms, what is the latest time Biden can be deposed (without resorting to the 25th)? ie when is the date at which he IS the candidate unless he dies or retires, and no one else can be chosen?

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democratic-national-committee-letter-joe-biden-virtual-roll-call/
    Sometime in the next few weeks. Lol.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274
    Sandpit said:

    Nunu5 said:

    🚨UPDATE: President Biden just released the following statement:

    “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone.

    “The stakes are high, and the choice is clear. Together, we will win.”

    Oh dear. He’s digging in.

    25th Amendment or he’s the nominee.
    It’s tragic. He could deliver what he most feared . A lot of the love and respect for Biden is going to turn to anger over the coming weeks .
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    Sandpit said:

    Nunu5 said:

    🚨UPDATE: President Biden just released the following statement:

    “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone.

    “The stakes are high, and the choice is clear. Together, we will win.”

    Oh dear. He’s digging in.

    25th Amendment or he’s the nominee.
    Harris invoking the 25th Amendment would actually be a genius move in some ways.

    Because without Biden's co-operation it would fail without Republican support. So if they vote against invoking it, they're saying he's fit to serve. And if they vote to invoke it, they're making their own candidate not only much the oldest in the race but shine the spotlight firmly on his own increasingly delusional behaviour.

    But from what I have seen of her and Biden I don't think they're that Machiavellian.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    In practical terms, what is the latest time Biden can be deposed (without resorting to the 25th)? ie when is the date at which he IS the candidate unless he dies or retires, and no one else can be chosen?

    The first state deadline for nominations to the ballot is, I believe, Ohio, on 7 August. I’m sure our American posters can correct me if I’m wrong.
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 435
    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,159
    Nunu5 said:

    🚨UPDATE: President Biden just released the following statement:

    “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone.

    “The stakes are high, and the choice is clear. Together, we will win.”

    Let's go Joe !
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    Californian lawyer. Not going to appeal to the rust belt.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,571
    Pulpstar said:

    Nunu5 said:

    🚨UPDATE: President Biden just released the following statement:

    “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone.

    “The stakes are high, and the choice is clear. Together, we will win.”

    Let's go Joe !
    Let’s go Brandon!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,159

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    Polls slightly worse than Biden.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    Leon said:

    In practical terms, what is the latest time Biden can be deposed (without resorting to the 25th)? ie when is the date at which he IS the candidate unless he dies or retires, and no one else can be chosen?

    He can't be deposed.

    He has to decide to quit. If he doesn't, he stays, simple as that.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274
    Biden can still withdraw even after he’s the confirmed nominee .

    The issue is his name and Harris’s would still appear on the ballot in states that have already started printing them .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,159
    edited July 19

    Pelosi ally says that Biden has to go.

    https://x.com/jakesherman/status/1814345452260581662

    That's a terrible letter. Presumably she's not supporting Harris either given her polling..

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    Apparently Cruella wants to join RefUK. How long before she falls out with NFF?

    Cruella is presenting the James O'Brien programme on LBC next Tuesday.

    I genuinely cannot wait!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    Just end the farce now, Joe. You cannot win, Kamala probably cannot either but she has more of a shot.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nunu5 said:

    🚨UPDATE: President Biden just released the following statement:

    “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone.

    “The stakes are high, and the choice is clear. Together, we will win.”

    Oh dear. He’s digging in.

    25th Amendment or he’s the nominee.
    On the one hand this is alarming and tragic, on the other hand it is fucking hilarious because the lying gaslighting democrats brought it all on themselves

    ITS JUST A STAMMER
    Things are not immutable. He was, self-evidently, the best person to beat Trump in 2020. He’s self-evidently not now. When the crossover was I don’t think anyone can say.

    People were saying 48 hours ago that the events of last Saturday had put paid to replacing him. Clearly they had not. Anyone who makes confident predictions about how this plays out is kidding themselves. On balance, though, the dam has to break somehow and his withdrawal is the most likely thing to happen. This statement alone doesn’t mean much.
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 888

    Leon said:

    In practical terms, what is the latest time Biden can be deposed (without resorting to the 25th)? ie when is the date at which he IS the candidate unless he dies or retires, and no one else can be chosen?

    He can't be deposed.

    He has to decide to quit. If he doesn't, he stays, simple as that.
    Well surely if the Biden delegates at the convention vote for someone else, then it would be someone else...?
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 888
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    In practical terms, what is the latest time Biden can be deposed (without resorting to the 25th)? ie when is the date at which he IS the candidate unless he dies or retires, and no one else can be chosen?

    The first state deadline for nominations to the ballot is, I believe, Ohio, on 7 August. I’m sure our American posters can correct me if I’m wrong.
    Although ofc Ohio is pretty red, but obv wouldn't be a great look if deadline missed.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361

    Scott_xP said:

    Apparently Cruella wants to join RefUK. How long before she falls out with NFF?

    Cruella is presenting the James O'Brien programme on LBC next Tuesday.

    I genuinely cannot wait!
    She can’t be any worse than that prick.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,159
    Seems like it's Jeffries Vs Pelosi with the House Dems tbh..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,159
    nico679 said:

    Biden can still withdraw even after he’s the confirmed nominee .

    The issue is his name and Harris’s would still appear on the ballot in states that have already started printing them .

    Yes, get very long Harris if Biden wins the nomination
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    edited July 19

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    I think she can beat Trump, and has a better chance than Biden.

    Becoming the nominee will put more scrutiny on her, but will also show up Trump as too old and incoherent.

    Better to for Biden to not run this time last year, but it's the Dems best chance now, particularly to get out the female vote over project 2025 and abortion.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,571
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    In practical terms, what is the latest time Biden can be deposed (without resorting to the 25th)? ie when is the date at which he IS the candidate unless he dies or retires, and no one else can be chosen?

    The first state deadline for nominations to the ballot is, I believe, Ohio, on 7 August. I’m sure our American posters can correct me if I’m wrong.
    Ohio tried to amend their deadline, but there’s still some ambiguity.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/democratic-national-committee-letter-joe-biden-virtual-roll-call/
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    Erm...recent events have radically diminished the power of the 1922 committee. Couple of weeks back? It was in all the papers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    DougSeal said:

    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    Erm...recent events have radically diminished the power of the 1922 committee. Couple of weeks back? It was in all the papers.
    Really? I'm sure I've seen confident statements on here that Starmer's a Tory.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    Pulpstar said:

    Pelosi ally says that Biden has to go.

    https://x.com/jakesherman/status/1814345452260581662

    That's a terrible letter. Presumably she's not supporting Harris either given her polling..

    My thinking is Harris is a clear lay at current prices.

    Absurd she's odds on.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    Erm...recent events have radically diminished the power of the 1922 committee. Couple of weeks back? It was in all the papers.
    Really? I'm sure I've seen confident statements on here that Starmer's a Tory.
    Really? I thought it was confidently established that he's practically a Communist?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,114
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    My daily photo is of Aries, last night

    Eat crow, Vincent


    Is that looking towards the bank of the Rhône?
    Yes. Rue Genive a few yards from the Rhone

    The sinister “Don’t Look Now” dwarf is actually my daughter. For some reason she came out all blurred and scary. She isn’t that in real life
    So which one are you? :smile:
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Apparently Cruella wants to join RefUK. How long before she falls out with NFF?

    Cruella is presenting the James O'Brien programme on LBC next Tuesday.

    I genuinely cannot wait!
    She can’t be any worse than that prick.
    Ooh , touchy
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    In practical terms, what is the latest time Biden can be deposed (without resorting to the 25th)? ie when is the date at which he IS the candidate unless he dies or retires, and no one else can be chosen?

    The first state deadline for nominations to the ballot is, I believe, Ohio, on 7 August. I’m sure our American posters can correct me if I’m wrong.
    Although ofc Ohio is pretty red, but obv wouldn't be a great look if deadline missed.
    As noted, the OH legislature amended the deadline - sorta.

    Despite prognostications that the great Buckeye State is once again likely to vote for Trump, even if Dem nominee is on the ballot.

    However, NOT having Democratic POTUS/VP option (except as writein) isn't just bad look, but also VERY bad news for down-ballot Democrats, in particular US Sen. Sherrod Brown, US Rep. Marcy Kaptur, and other congressional AND legislative candidates.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485
    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    Joe would be angry that young upstarts who’ve only been around since 1922 are telling an elder statesman like him what to do. “You young whippersnappers, in 1922 I was in Europe fighting Medicare. Don’t tell me I can’t be president of Virginia.” Or something.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,195
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    Erm...recent events have radically diminished the power of the 1922 committee. Couple of weeks back? It was in all the papers.
    Really? I'm sure I've seen confident statements on here that Starmer's a Tory.
    Really? I thought it was confidently established that he's practically a Communist?
    He a Fascist Stalinist Nazi Maoist.

    Didn’t you get the memo?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    "Lofgren joins highest profile Democrats urging Biden to quit race

    In the last few moments, two more Democratic members of Congress have called on Joe Biden to step aside from his reelection campaign, even as the US president issued a defiant statement.

    Zoe Lofgren wrote a statement, posted by CNN’s Jake Tapper just now, saying to Biden: “Your candidacy is on a trajectory to lose the White House and potentially impact crucial House and Senate races down ballot….I urge you to step aside from our Party’s nomination to allow another Democratic candidate to compete.”

    Ohio congressman Greg Landsman also made the call."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/19/trump-biden-rnc-democrats-election-updates
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    DougSeal said:

    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    Erm...recent events have radically diminished the power of the 1922 committee. Couple of weeks back? It was in all the papers.
    I meant a parliamentary system would of deposed of Biden by now
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540

    Biden, Harris and the rest: I've lost my nerve since this morning and cashed out completely.

    Hope you didn't lose too much.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    Nunu5 said:

    Sentencing remarks in R v Hallam and others have been published, for anybody with an interest in the sentences passed on the Just Stop Oil protestors.

    https://judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf

    Judicial snark can be amusing, but the big hitting quotes have already been known. This one I did not:

    During your evidence you [Hallam] described yourself as "the most influential environmentalist in the country apart from Sir David Attenborough"

    I fear you may have got a bit carried way[sic] at that point, but you are clearly a highly influential figure within Just Stop Oil and similarly minded groups


    But this is main rationale I think, and pretty justifiable


  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846
    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    The old one, maybe. Now the 1922 Committee cannot agree on a method or timetable for electing Rishi's replacement.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,114
    Nunu5 said:

    Sentencing remarks in R v Hallam and others have been published, for anybody with an interest in the sentences passed on the Just Stop Oil protestors.

    https://judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf

    Thank-you.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,043

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    She’s petty centrist in terms of policy. She looked good on paper when she ran for the Presidential nomination, but then performed poorly. But, also, she’s black, and a lot of Americans are racist, and she’s a woman, and a lot of Americans are sexist.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    Yeah who can forget the brilliance of our Tory 1922 cttee, got rid of general election winner Boris and ultimately put Sunak in his place and set the way for that landslide Tory general election victory earlier this month...oh wait
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    edited July 19

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    I think in part it is self fulfilling prophecy, in part that there would not be unity behind her, in part that she would not have the reach in the same areas Biden used to, a bit of sexism and racism, and a much more motivated GOP willing to lean on the scales in crucial states in a way they were unprepared for in 2020.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    edited July 19
    kle4 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Sentencing remarks in R v Hallam and others have been published, for anybody with an interest in the sentences passed on the Just Stop Oil protestors.

    https://judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf

    Judicial snark can be amusing, but the big hitting quotes have already been known. This one I did not:

    During your evidence you [Hallam] described yourself as "the most influential environmentalist in the country apart from Sir David Attenborough"

    I fear you may have got a bit carried way[sic] at that point, but you are clearly a highly influential figure within Just Stop Oil and similarly minded groups


    But this is main rationale I think, and pretty justifiable


    I'm amazed they haven't had dazzling careers at British Gas and Thames Water.

    Or indeed Shell and BP.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Sandpit said:

    Nunu5 said:

    🚨UPDATE: President Biden just released the following statement:

    “I look forward to getting back on the campaign trail next week to continue exposing the threat of Donald Trump’s Project 2025 agenda while making the case for my own record and the vision that I have for America: one where we save our democracy, protect our rights and freedoms, and create opportunity for everyone.

    “The stakes are high, and the choice is clear. Together, we will win.”

    Oh dear. He’s digging in.

    25th Amendment or he’s the nominee.
    I've been thinking about this.

    Even a successful use of the 25th Amendment (which requires the GOP to assent) only makes Harris Acting President, right? In itself it doesn't affect Biden's status as the nominee, so where's the leverage against Biden?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046

    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    The old one, maybe. Now the 1922 Committee cannot agree on a method or timetable for electing Rishi's replacement.
    There's no rush to it. Is any more damage being done to the party by a delay of a few weeks to the process?

    A multi year rebuilding effort will be needed, and Starmer likely won't ever be more popular than he is now, a new Tory leader a few days or weeks earlier isn't going to move the dial.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Also FPT

    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    It doesn't really make sense. For example:

    "Supply exceeds demand 64% of the time, so, lacking any suitable storage technology, we'd be throwing out 120 TWh of power, worth well over £10 billion, every year. That's perhaps £500 per household chucked down the drain."

    How can power produced in excess of what can be used have a value? It is, by definition, worth nothing. Also the assumption that we'd have no suitable storage technology is a bit of a biggie, especially given the possibility of using car batteries for storage.

    Edit: The obvious way to go is to improve connectivity with other countries. After all, the wind is always blowing somewhere.
    Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick, through payments to windfarms when the power is not required:

    "This means that the government is having to pay huge sums in curtailment fees to wind farm owners to switch off turbines when they are generating more power than is needed.
    Some £210m ($267m) of curtailment payments were made to renewable energy generators to curtail output in 2022, said the report
    With the UK planning to grow its offshore wind capacity from 14GW today to 50GW by 2030, the report says that curtailment costs are expected to rise to £3.5bn annually by the end of the decade."

    https://www.rechargenews.com/wind/turn-wasted-wind-power-into-green-hydrogen-and-save-uk-billions-study/2-1-1583623

    or:

    "Wasted wind power adds £40 to household energy costs, says think tank"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67494082
    It's not quite as simple as that.

    The wind farms have guaranteed prices for the power they produce from contracts signed with the government, but they still participate in the spot market.

    During periods of overproduction, instantaneous prices go negative (ie the grid offers to pay producers to reduce production and/or customers to use power). If their guaranteed strike price is higher than the negative market price, it still pays the wind farm to carry on producing; a negative price which exceeds what they earn pays them to stun off production.

    Similarly with solar (though not all solar connections are 'throttleable' in the same manner.)

    With the rapid increase in renewables production, total hours with negative pricing will also grown over then next few years.
    But the very strong market incentive is going to see the storage market grow in response.

    The game changer is the drop in battery prices over the last year. They're now just about at the point it pays to deploy grid scale storage - it just needs the factories to build them.
    Battery prices have dropped 55% since the beginning of last year.

    Lots of things that weren't economic are now economic.
    They won't stay low in the long term unless someone finds an awful lot more copper etc that can be mined cheaply. Raw materials of copper cobalt, lithium etc are a big elephant in the room

    New "battery" techology is needed. Keep seeing breakthrough announcements but few make it to production as the announcements are normally about a lab concept to try and attract (high risk) investment money to turn that into something sellable.
    More fortunes have been lost betting on commodities not being found than any other way.

    As prices rise, more deposits become economic.
    I’ve been working for a few months on a project for a government who have huge stockpiles of a commodity that’s very useful, actually quite essential. All the parties have been working on the basis of the gov putting x amount of the commodity aside as we are leveraging it and using the value in a different way for them.

    They have informed us last week that they are now happy to triple the allocation for what we are doing as it’s worked its way through to their minds that they have lots of it, they have lots still to just sell even after tripling our allocation, and by diverting a bigger slice to us it reduces the amount on the market so effectively maintains or increases the value of the commodity.

    Trebles all round.
    Greenland, olivine?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 19
    Foxy said:

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    I think she can beat Trump, and has a better chance than Biden.

    Becoming the nominee will put more scrutiny on her, but will also show up Trump as too old and incoherent.

    Better to for Biden to not run this time last year, but it's the Dems best chance now, particularly to get out the female vote over project 2025 and abortion.
    Harris basically rolls out the red carpet for Trump's return, she even performed abysmally in the 2020 Dem primaries. She would go down even worse than Hillary in the rustbelt, has about as much appeal to white working class voters as Jane Fonda and doesn't enthuse black voters much compared to the Obamas either.

    If Harris is Dem nominee not only will Trump comfortably win, the Democrats will deserve their defeat
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    HYUFD said:


    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    Yeah who can forget the brilliance of our Tory 1922 cttee, got rid of general election winner Boris and ultimately put Sunak in his place and set the way for that landslide Tory general election victory earlier this month...oh wait
    As I recall Boris resigned because he lost the support of his parliamentary party, because even after winning a vote of no confidence his personal mistakes were continuing to cause the party problems with no end in sight.

    People can certainly disagree about whether he should have held on and forced another vote down the line, who they chose to replace him and the debacle that ended up being, but I don't see how it was the 1922 committee's fault that the MPs were in uproar, even if their being so was regarded as a mistake.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Nearly every flight across the US has been grounded. Remarkable.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    None of those things. Her previous experience is as largely as a somewhat effective prosecutor.

    I think there's a degree of misogyny with Harris. A black woman who is also liberal is someone who doesn't know their place. We can say this is all very bad, but if she does become presidential candidate she will have to find a way to overcome the prejudice against her. Not certain she will.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485
    edited July 19
    HYUFD said:


    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    Yeah who can forget the brilliance of our Tory 1922 cttee, got rid of general election winner Boris and ultimately put Sunak in his place and set the way for that landslide Tory general election victory earlier this month...oh wait
    You always strike me as a thoroughly decent human. I think you are religious, pretty old school conservative. Traditional in a good way. You respect and love hierarchies. Apart from the religion part we are vaguely similar. This is why I find your blind spot over Boris so bizarre. Yes he was a winner at a certain point but he was also a shit stain on the party and the country. You and I shouldn’t want people like him to rise to power, especially when it’s really more about them than the good for the country.

    I get the feeling you have that the Tories might have done better if he hadn’t been turned out but his actions led to him being turfed which fundamentally should show you of all people how unsuitable he was to hold that office.

    Sometimes winning is less important than playing well and not destroying all future support. He was an aggressive cancer to the party - if he had squeezed a win or narrow loss we would still be an unpleasant cess pit who might never see power again in the long term. So I hope one day you let go and realise what a disaster he was as a human and to the party.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited July 19

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Also FPT

    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    It doesn't really make sense. For example:

    "Supply exceeds demand 64% of the time, so, lacking any suitable storage technology, we'd be throwing out 120 TWh of power, worth well over £10 billion, every year. That's perhaps £500 per household chucked down the drain."

    How can power produced in excess of what can be used have a value? It is, by definition, worth nothing. Also the assumption that we'd have no suitable storage technology is a bit of a biggie, especially given the possibility of using car batteries for storage.

    Edit: The obvious way to go is to improve connectivity with other countries. After all, the wind is always blowing somewhere.
    Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick, through payments to windfarms when the power is not required:

    "This means that the government is having to pay huge sums in curtailment fees to wind farm owners to switch off turbines when they are generating more power than is needed.
    Some £210m ($267m) of curtailment payments were made to renewable energy generators to curtail output in 2022, said the report
    With the UK planning to grow its offshore wind capacity from 14GW today to 50GW by 2030, the report says that curtailment costs are expected to rise to £3.5bn annually by the end of the decade."

    https://www.rechargenews.com/wind/turn-wasted-wind-power-into-green-hydrogen-and-save-uk-billions-study/2-1-1583623

    or:

    "Wasted wind power adds £40 to household energy costs, says think tank"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67494082
    It's not quite as simple as that.

    The wind farms have guaranteed prices for the power they produce from contracts signed with the government, but they still participate in the spot market.

    During periods of overproduction, instantaneous prices go negative (ie the grid offers to pay producers to reduce production and/or customers to use power). If their guaranteed strike price is higher than the negative market price, it still pays the wind farm to carry on producing; a negative price which exceeds what they earn pays them to stun off production.

    Similarly with solar (though not all solar connections are 'throttleable' in the same manner.)

    With the rapid increase in renewables production, total hours with negative pricing will also grown over then next few years.
    But the very strong market incentive is going to see the storage market grow in response.

    The game changer is the drop in battery prices over the last year. They're now just about at the point it pays to deploy grid scale storage - it just needs the factories to build them.
    Battery prices have dropped 55% since the beginning of last year.

    Lots of things that weren't economic are now economic.
    They won't stay low in the long term unless someone finds an awful lot more copper etc that can be mined cheaply. Raw materials of copper cobalt, lithium etc are a big elephant in the room

    New "battery" techology is needed. Keep seeing breakthrough announcements but few make it to production as the announcements are normally about a lab concept to try and attract (high risk) investment money to turn that into something sellable.
    More fortunes have been lost betting on commodities not being found than any other way.

    As prices rise, more deposits become economic.
    And there's a huge amount of known, unexploited lithium reserves.
    As an example, the US probably one of the world's largest known extractable deposit, and they haven't yet even started mining it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thacker_Pass_Lithium_Mine

    Interestingly, ARPA-E, the US energy technology equivalent of DARPA is funding a few projects for innovative mining technology, in the hope of reviving US mining which has been undercut in recent years by low cost producers like China.
    What happens when the lithium runs out?
    Lithium isn't going to run out, there's loads. There was a price spike when batteries were selling much faster than people had expected and lithium production couldn't ramp up fast enough, but then it caught up and the price came back down.

    Social media has a bias to bad news, doomers and Russian propaganda so lots of people saw the graph of the price going up a lot, but hardly anyone saw the graph of it going back down. So this survives as a zombie talking point.
    https://www.dailymetalprice.com/metalpricecharts.php?c=li&u=kg&d=240
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,114
    edited July 19
    MattW said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Sentencing remarks in R v Hallam and others have been published, for anybody with an interest in the sentences passed on the Just Stop Oil protestors.

    https://judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf

    Thank-you.
    Very much worth a read.

    I've also tweeted it; let's see what the Outraged say, or if they will engage with the reasoning.

    https://x.com/mattwardman/status/1814361137829351467
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    edited July 19
    kle4 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Sentencing remarks in R v Hallam and others have been published, for anybody with an interest in the sentences passed on the Just Stop Oil protestors.

    https://judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf

    Judicial snark can be amusing, but the big hitting quotes have already been known. This one I did not:

    During your evidence you [Hallam] described yourself as "the most influential environmentalist in the country apart from Sir David Attenborough"

    I fear you may have got a bit carried way[sic] at that point, but you are clearly a highly influential figure within Just Stop Oil and similarly minded groups


    But this is main rationale I think, and pretty justifiable


    Also, in general I don't support long sentences for the sake of long sentences. I have doubts in many cases about the success of deterrence.

    But these are mostly comfortable people seeking to consciously engage in highly disruptive activity, boastful of their morality of that cause. Furore over the sentences does to me seem to come with a whiff of 'those nice middle class people sentenced?! How awful".

    These people won't stop if their beliefs are sincere, and consensus seems to be they are, so some way must be found to make them stop, requiring a harsher sentence.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485

    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Also FPT

    Cannot speak for the accuracy of the figures, but this is a worrying thread about Labour's green plans:

    https://x.com/aDissentient/status/1814239901094654095

    It doesn't really make sense. For example:

    "Supply exceeds demand 64% of the time, so, lacking any suitable storage technology, we'd be throwing out 120 TWh of power, worth well over £10 billion, every year. That's perhaps £500 per household chucked down the drain."

    How can power produced in excess of what can be used have a value? It is, by definition, worth nothing. Also the assumption that we'd have no suitable storage technology is a bit of a biggie, especially given the possibility of using car batteries for storage.

    Edit: The obvious way to go is to improve connectivity with other countries. After all, the wind is always blowing somewhere.
    Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick, through payments to windfarms when the power is not required:

    "This means that the government is having to pay huge sums in curtailment fees to wind farm owners to switch off turbines when they are generating more power than is needed.
    Some £210m ($267m) of curtailment payments were made to renewable energy generators to curtail output in 2022, said the report
    With the UK planning to grow its offshore wind capacity from 14GW today to 50GW by 2030, the report says that curtailment costs are expected to rise to £3.5bn annually by the end of the decade."

    https://www.rechargenews.com/wind/turn-wasted-wind-power-into-green-hydrogen-and-save-uk-billions-study/2-1-1583623

    or:

    "Wasted wind power adds £40 to household energy costs, says think tank"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67494082
    It's not quite as simple as that.

    The wind farms have guaranteed prices for the power they produce from contracts signed with the government, but they still participate in the spot market.

    During periods of overproduction, instantaneous prices go negative (ie the grid offers to pay producers to reduce production and/or customers to use power). If their guaranteed strike price is higher than the negative market price, it still pays the wind farm to carry on producing; a negative price which exceeds what they earn pays them to stun off production.

    Similarly with solar (though not all solar connections are 'throttleable' in the same manner.)

    With the rapid increase in renewables production, total hours with negative pricing will also grown over then next few years.
    But the very strong market incentive is going to see the storage market grow in response.

    The game changer is the drop in battery prices over the last year. They're now just about at the point it pays to deploy grid scale storage - it just needs the factories to build them.
    Battery prices have dropped 55% since the beginning of last year.

    Lots of things that weren't economic are now economic.
    They won't stay low in the long term unless someone finds an awful lot more copper etc that can be mined cheaply. Raw materials of copper cobalt, lithium etc are a big elephant in the room

    New "battery" techology is needed. Keep seeing breakthrough announcements but few make it to production as the announcements are normally about a lab concept to try and attract (high risk) investment money to turn that into something sellable.
    More fortunes have been lost betting on commodities not being found than any other way.

    As prices rise, more deposits become economic.
    I’ve been working for a few months on a project for a government who have huge stockpiles of a commodity that’s very useful, actually quite essential. All the parties have been working on the basis of the gov putting x amount of the commodity aside as we are leveraging it and using the value in a different way for them.

    They have informed us last week that they are now happy to triple the allocation for what we are doing as it’s worked its way through to their minds that they have lots of it, they have lots still to just sell even after tripling our allocation, and by diverting a bigger slice to us it reduces the amount on the market so effectively maintains or increases the value of the commodity.

    Trebles all round.
    Greenland, olivine?
    No. But that’s a good name for an alternative to margerine.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:


    Nunu5 said:

    The 1922 committee would have got rid of Biden by now

    Our system is better than there's in a hundred ways

    Yeah who can forget the brilliance of our Tory 1922 cttee, got rid of general election winner Boris and ultimately put Sunak in his place and set the way for that landslide Tory general election victory earlier this month...oh wait
    You always strike me as a thoroughly decent human. I think you are religious, pretty old school conservative. Traditional in a good way. You respect and love hierarchies. Apart from the religion part we are vaguely similar. This is why I find your blind spot over Boris so bizarre. Yes he was a winner at a certain point but he was also a shit stain on the party and the country. You and I shouldn’t want people like him to rise to power, especially when it’s really more about them than the good for the country.

    I get the feeling you have that the Tories might have done better if he hadn’t been turned out but his actions led to him being turfed which fundamentally should show you of all people how unsuitable he was to hold that office.

    Sometimes winning is less important than playing well and not destroying all future support. He was an aggressive cancer to the party - if he had squeezed a win or narrow loss we would still be an unpleasant chess Pitt who might never see power again in the long term. So I hope one day you let go and realise what a disaster he was as a human and to the party.
    I wouldn't want Boris as Pope or Archbishop but as Conservative leader he was the most effective campaigner since Thatcher, even better than Cameron. He beat Corbyn and delivered Brexit where other Tories had failed. Had he stayed PM at least 100 Tory MPs would have held their seats who lost them earlier this month and they have nobody to blame but themselves
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,043
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    I think she can beat Trump, and has a better chance than Biden.

    Becoming the nominee will put more scrutiny on her, but will also show up Trump as too old and incoherent.

    Better to for Biden to not run this time last year, but it's the Dems best chance now, particularly to get out the female vote over project 2025 and abortion.
    Harris basically rolls out the red carpet for Trump's return, she even performed abysmally in the 2020 Dem primaries. She would go down even worse than Hillary in the rustbelt, has about as much appeal to white working class voters as Jane Fonda and doesn't enthuse black voters much compared to the Obamas either.

    If Harris is Dem nominee not only will Trump comfortably win, the Democrats will deserve their defeat
    That’s not what the polling says.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,032
    edited July 19
    Foxy said:

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    I think she can beat Trump, and has a better chance than Biden.

    Becoming the nominee will put more scrutiny on her, but will also show up Trump as too old and incoherent.

    Better to for Biden to not run this time last year, but it's the Dems best chance now, particularly to get out the female vote over project 2025 and abortion.
    Anecdotal, but fwiw, I've just been in America for a month, mostly among Democrats and Democrat-leaning voters, and detected no enthusiasm whatsoever for Harris, and indeed active dislike amongst those who knew her and her record best (a couple of lawyers in LA). And none of the (fewer) Republicans I met feared her at all.

    Doubtless the "it's time" crowd will support her, but they wouldn't vote Trump anyway, she is mostly poor at speaking and she makes Biden's judgement look good.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809
    Have we had a PBservice of thoughts and prayers for Anabob today? Esp. if s/he is travelling.

    And, to be fair, to everyone else affected.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,571
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Sentencing remarks in R v Hallam and others have been published, for anybody with an interest in the sentences passed on the Just Stop Oil protestors.

    https://judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf

    Judicial snark can be amusing, but the big hitting quotes have already been known. This one I did not:

    During your evidence you [Hallam] described yourself as "the most influential environmentalist in the country apart from Sir David Attenborough"

    I fear you may have got a bit carried way[sic] at that point, but you are clearly a highly influential figure within Just Stop Oil and similarly minded groups


    But this is main rationale I think, and pretty justifiable


    Also, in general I don't support long sentences for the sake of long sentences. I have doubts in many cases about the success of deterrence.

    But these are mostly comfortable people seeking to consciously engage in highly disruptive activity, boastful of their morality of that cause. Furore over the sentences does to me seem to come with a whiff of 'those nice middle class people sentenced?! How awful".

    These people won't stop if their beliefs are sincere, and consensus seems to be they are, so some way must be found to make them stop, requiring a harsher sentence.
    They all had previous convictions for similar offences, for which they were given either suspended or brief custodial sentences. The judge also notes that there are future trials to come.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    FF43 said:

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    None of those things. Her previous experience is as largely as a somewhat effective prosecutor.

    I think there's a degree of misogyny with Harris. A black woman who is also liberal is someone who doesn't know their place. We can say this is all very bad, but if she does become presidential candidate she will have to find a way to overcome the prejudice against her. Not certain she will.
    Not entirely true, Michelle Obama polls way better than Harris and is a liberal black woman too.

    The difference is she has charisma, Harris makes Hillary Clinton look like a woman with the common touch
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,812
    It seems the only one who hasn’t gotten the memo that Biden will not be the nominee is…. Biden.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,030
    Election denialism front and center at Republican national convention

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/19/election-denialism-republican-convention
    “Don’t fuck us,” Lara Logan, the former CBS News anchor turned to me and said. “If you use the word conspiracy theorist in your story, I’m going to haunt you when I die.”..
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    Nunu5 said:

    Sentencing remarks in R v Hallam and others have been published, for anybody with an interest in the sentences passed on the Just Stop Oil protestors.

    https://judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Hallam-and-others.pdf

    Superb.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397

    It seems the only one who hasn’t gotten the memo that Biden will not be the nominee is…. Biden.

    Maybe he got it, but forgot?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    None of those things. Her previous experience is as largely as a somewhat effective prosecutor.

    I think there's a degree of misogyny with Harris. A black woman who is also liberal is someone who doesn't know their place. We can say this is all very bad, but if she does become presidential candidate she will have to find a way to overcome the prejudice against her. Not certain she will.
    Not entirely true, Michelle Obama polls way better than Harris and is a liberal black woman too.

    The difference is she has charisma, Harris makes Hillary Clinton look like a woman with the common touch
    Isn't the problem just that Harris doesn't poll very well. The main complaint seems to be that she was put in charge of the border issue and hasn't done very well on that. She has also supported a lot of quite divisive 'woke' stuff that Biden and Obama would avoid.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,571
    dixiedean said:

    It seems the only one who hasn’t gotten the memo that Biden will not be the nominee is…. Biden.

    Maybe he got it, but forgot?
    It wasn’t on the teleprompter.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,399
    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    None of those things. Her previous experience is as largely as a somewhat effective prosecutor.

    I think there's a degree of misogyny with Harris. A black woman who is also liberal is someone who doesn't know their place. We can say this is all very bad, but if she does become presidential candidate she will have to find a way to overcome the prejudice against her. Not certain she will.
    Not entirely true, Michelle Obama polls way better than Harris and is a liberal black woman too.

    The difference is she has charisma, Harris makes Hillary Clinton look like a woman with the common touch
    Isn't the problem just that Harris doesn't poll very well. The main complaint seems to be that she was put in charge of the border issue and hasn't done very well on that. She has also supported a lot of quite divisive 'woke' stuff that Biden and Obama would avoid.
    I'm not convinced Harris will get it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,571
    https://x.com/natesilver538/status/1814326275642737064

    “Today's model update. A lot of polling in since yesterday, and we're seeing an unmistakable spike for Trump, who is now up almost 4 points in our national polling average.”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 19

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Forgive me, I haven’t been following US politics particularly closely - can someone summarise for me, please, why is everyone so down on Harris’s chances in the general?

    Like, I can read the polls, but is she like, hopeless on stage? Or a whack job, policy wise?

    I think she can beat Trump, and has a better chance than Biden.

    Becoming the nominee will put more scrutiny on her, but will also show up Trump as too old and incoherent.

    Better to for Biden to not run this time last year, but it's the Dems best chance now, particularly to get out the female vote over project 2025 and abortion.
    Harris basically rolls out the red carpet for Trump's return, she even performed abysmally in the 2020 Dem primaries. She would go down even worse than Hillary in the rustbelt, has about as much appeal to white working class voters as Jane Fonda and doesn't enthuse black voters much compared to the Obamas either.

    If Harris is Dem nominee not only will Trump comfortably win, the Democrats will deserve their defeat
    That’s not what the polling says.
    Oh it is, Harris polls worse than Biden in most polls, especially in swing states and worse than Whitmer and Shapiro in the Midwest swing states too
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,281
    RCP approval averages:

    Harris -11.8
    Trump -12.4
    Biden -17.7
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274
    How can the Labour government just ignore the Rwanda legislation . Don’t they need a vote in parliament to get rid of that?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046
    HYUFD said:

    She may even face the ignominy of failing to secure the numbers to get on the ballot paper as support within the parliamentary party leeches away to other right-wing candidates.


    That would be embarrassing, and would blunt the impact of her defection, though it would still be significant.

    I still believe had the Tories done just a little bit worse then the candidates for leader would have had one who was explicitly pro-merger/alliance with Reform.

    As it is it seems to be a fight over how much to pitch for Reform votes (they do need them after all).
This discussion has been closed.