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Chronicle of a bet foretold: Thin gruel – politicalbetting.com

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  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,562
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Agghhh I have done it again, posted on the last thread. @Leon I asked you a question about the ferry that I would like your feedback on. Cheers.

    Ask away
    In a car I use the tunnel, but on a bike I use ferries. Cyclists get treated like Gods by the ferries. Front of the queue (and don't have to queue), car escort out.

    Are you on foot? Would be good to know how that works?
    I can’t compare it to much coz I’ve only done this route by foot. But it seems to be a breeze. Eg I woke in my old town St Malo hotel room at 8.15am, I was on the ferry - showered and everything - by 8.50. Zero queues. Now I’m stretched out in my cabin

    It is quite pricey, apparently. And of course it takes ages to cross. But yes, chilled out
    I've done Portsmouth to St Malo a few times. It is long, but relaxing I agree. Can't remember the price, but certainly the short trips are cheap (Dover - Calais £25, bike foc). How about getting to and from ferry to the town either end?
    Doddle. Make sure you order a taxi. Arrives in minutes
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,562

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
    It’s quite hard to overstate the profundity of his disability. I saw a tv interview last night - CNN - which said intel had noticed 20-30 occasions in the last year when he seemed to completely freeze. Not just mumble or forget things - “turn into a zombie” - and it’s getting worse, fast

    It’s tragic and cruel and ridiculous
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    The constant illiterate use of this phrase is twisting my melon (man).

    That's setting aside the ludicrousness of campaigning to please not let us do *too* badly. Pathetic stuff. I'm a bit disheartened by the apparent, if small, Tory 'swingback' in the polling though. I don't understand how anyone can vote for such a parcel of incompetents. I guess if I had a Charles Walker-ish decent fellow as my MP, then maybe.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963
    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.

    It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority

    Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,951
    edited July 2
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    Tres said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    I believe the polls in this election have not been correct. We will find out on Friday.

    The unusual choices the voters are making must be making life hard for them.

    Would account for the lack of herding.

    We will know either way when Sunderland South comes in
    Sunderland South is hardly representative of all the other seats.

    I'd say we won't really know until we start seeing a few LD target seats too: Harrogate & Knaresborough at c. 01:45, maybe not until Cheltenham and Eastleigh around 03:00.
    Do people not think the exit poll will give at least a rough idea of which category the result is in?
    Well quite. MrEd/MisterBedfordshire is weirdo Trumpian trollcaster who knows very little about psephology. Hence his now legendary ‘tip’ for Trump to carry VA in Potus 2020, which Trump lost by 11 points.
    I'm not Mr Ed. I stopped posting in 2016 until recently

    I also don't go round insulting other posters.

    Insulting other posters including me because you disagree with their posts says more about you than you intended to reveal.
    Happy to take you word for it but your posts are uncannily similar to his and then there's the MrEd/MisterBedfordshire name similarity.

    Still remember enjoying a good few beers with Mr Ed at the last PB gathering, shame he got himself banned.
    IIUC, @MrEd is not the same as @MrBedfordshire . @MrBedfordshire claims to be the same person as @Paul_Bedfordshire , who stopped posting in 2016. I assume the mods can confirm/deny
    @misterbedfordshire.

    @mrbedfordshire didn't work and has zilch posts because google (gmail) blocked @rcs1000 email message in response to registration to verify the email address because it came from Vanilla not @rcs1000 so googles spoofing klaxons went off (@paul.... had similar problems after the interregnum since 2016)

    So @misterbedfordshire came into existence via a non gmail email which didn't block the please verify email address message.

    If you are registered here with a gmail address and you need vanilla to send a message to it for any reason (like you forgot your password) you is stuffed.


    Ain't life grand.
    also Mr Ed would never willingly get on a bus. I'm buying it.
    The view that "Buses are for poor people" boils my pee
    A lovely surprise this morning to find myself in agreement with you on something.

    I take buses loads. They’re a great way to see the world, both outside and inside the windows.
    Top deck on a rural double decker bus is fantastic. Especially at this time of year
    Buses are the simplest and cheapest way to take some heat out of the housing market. Make city centres more accessible from the towns, villages and suburbs so you don't have to scrap it out for a walking-distance flat.
    The big game changer, especially for rural and lesser used suburban routes where buses run less frequently, sometimes only every 2-3 hours, is the satellite tracker.

    Now you can sit at home or wherever and track the bus on a map in comfort, going to the stop when it is a few minutes away.

    The days of waiting ages in the wind and rain for buses that don't turn up are OVER. But sadly too few people know about this.

    If you have not got this website saved on your phone, do it and get it.

    https://bustimes.org/
    Interesting. If I hadn't wasted my daily pic on that 'Sunak sleeping' ad I'd do a screen shot of North Dorset on the map. Not a single bus to be seen.
    Also that assumes the data are good. Lothian Buses recently had a disastrous software update with the data on the screens at the bus stops totally misleading ... the problem was the stuff from another (private) company I believe.

    Edit: Hadf a look. At least one major company completely missing. And Lothian Buses themselves provide such a service so no great improvement. Nice thought though. It shouldn't be left to some amiable amateur.
    The new screens show the timetable rather than the actual estimated timings. It was a backwards step, still not rectified. It's weird because any amateur could set up a tracker in a few days.

    Doesn't effect me much because I have a near constant stream of buses to choose from.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Erm, I strongly suspect it was intended Biden use the words, "end of quote", since he is quoting one of the judges' dissent and not his own.

    You make the same error as some of those who decry Trump without realising when he is joking.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Agghhh I have done it again, posted on the last thread. @Leon I asked you a question about the ferry that I would like your feedback on. Cheers.

    Ask away
    In a car I use the tunnel, but on a bike I use ferries. Cyclists get treated like Gods by the ferries. Front of the queue (and don't have to queue), car escort out.

    Are you on foot? Would be good to know how that works?
    I can’t compare it to much coz I’ve only done this route by foot. But it seems to be a breeze. Eg I woke in my old town St Malo hotel room at 8.15am, I was on the ferry - showered and everything - by 8.50. Zero queues. Now I’m stretched out in my cabin

    It is quite pricey, apparently. And of course it takes ages to cross. But yes, chilled out
    I've done Portsmouth to St Malo a few times. It is long, but relaxing I agree. Can't remember the price, but certainly the short trips are cheap (Dover - Calais £25, bike foc). How about getting to and from ferry to the town either end?
    I see that ship go by most late afternoons.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,859
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on “people apparently not working”

    I basically work every waking hour - 365 days a year. Some of us don’t get holidays

    My problem is people don’t see the work so they think I’ve got it easy. Eg when I’m sipping my Kir Breton in sunny Camaret sur Mer, courtesy of the French taxpayer, and staring vaguely and happily at the dolphins in the bay - I’m working. In my head. I’m thinking about that next flint - or the next Gazette piece, or where I can have oysters

    It never stops - it’s relentless. And it’s people like me that keep the world turning when everyone else has got their feet up, watching Season 3 of Traitors

    I like to call us “the silent heroes”

    What’s a “holiday”?

    I have had one morning off since November 2019. I wish things would calm down a little!
    Same here, mate

    It actually *gets my goat* when I hear people wanking on and on about their “holibobs”

    Think about us poor grunts who never get a holiday - the galley slaves of modern Britain. Just because you can’t see us doesn’t mean we don’t exist - quietly keeping things going
    Lots of people have a holibob at Crimble. Even if at no other season.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    My amusement for the day is covered. I had the joy of listening to an interview with one of the campaigners who were demanding not to be treated differently to men by the Garrick by allowing them to be members demanding, with straight face, that women be treated differently to men by the Garrick by allowing them to jump the multi-year waiting list like men who wish to join do.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144

    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.

    It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority

    Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
    Nevertheless this is normally when the LDs lose a little of their new support back to the main parties
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,562

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Erm, I strongly suspect it was intended Biden use the words, "end of quote", since he is quoting one of the judges' dissent and not his own.

    You make the same error as some of those who decry Trump without realising when he is joking.
    Perhaps. Except Biden has form for doing exactly this
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,239
    edited July 2

    Out of interest, where is the tipping point between "landslide" and "supermajority".

    I'm just trying to gauge the Tories aim in these final 48 hours. Would a Blair 97 landslide of 179 - not a supermajority - be considered a great result?

    The difference is in the perception. The Conservatives focus group "Labour landslide". Sounds OK given how much everyone hates the Tories. So they try "Labour supermajority" and people think, maybe we don't want to give them unlimited power.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,364
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    * Some * of those with the broadest shoulders are paying more.

    Those with broad shoulders on PAYE are paying far more than those with broad shoulders who are not.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on “people apparently not working”

    I basically work every waking hour - 365 days a year. Some of us don’t get holidays

    My problem is people don’t see the work so they think I’ve got it easy. Eg when I’m sipping my Kir Breton in sunny Camaret sur Mer, courtesy of the French taxpayer, and staring vaguely and happily at the dolphins in the bay - I’m working. In my head. I’m thinking about that next flint - or the next Gazette piece, or where I can have oysters

    It never stops - it’s relentless. And it’s people like me that keep the world turning when everyone else has got their feet up, watching Season 3 of Traitors

    I like to call us “the silent heroes”

    What’s a “holiday”?

    I have had one morning off since November 2019. I wish things would calm down a little!
    Same here, mate

    It actually *gets my goat* when I hear people wanking on and on about their “holibobs”

    Think about us poor grunts who never get a holiday - the galley slaves of modern Britain. Just because you can’t see us doesn’t mean we don’t exist - quietly keeping things going
    Lots of people have a holibob at Crimble. Even if at no other season.
    Yes. Many have had their holibobs curtailed by cozzy livs.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    edited July 2
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    Each generation has its challenges, but coming of age in the Eighties wasn't always great for young people, what with mass unemployment etc.

    Sure house prices were a lot lower in 1992 when I first bought a place with Mrs Foxy, but deposited were higher, interest rates higher and we were restricted to 3x income. Even so mortgage cost me 40% of my more heavily taxed income, so we weren't by any means flush.

    In principle I would like a higher percentage of the population paying income tax, even if at a fairly low rate. Everyone in work should be contributing something to the national coffers.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,859
    Tice absolutely 10th rate on R4 Today this morning. Toe curling.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
    It’s quite hard to overstate the profundity of his disability. I saw a tv interview last night - CNN - which said intel had noticed 20-30 occasions in the last year when he seemed to completely freeze. Not just mumble or forget things - “turn into a zombie” - and it’s getting worse, fast

    It’s tragic and cruel and ridiculous
    I haven’t seen it but there is nothing unusual in public speaking in making it clear when your quote has finished and that it’s back to you.

    Generally I thought it was a powerful speech about a truly terrible decision that does indeed threaten the rule of law in America.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    edited July 2
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Erm, I strongly suspect it was intended Biden use the words, "end of quote", since he is quoting one of the judges' dissent and not his own.

    You make the same error as some of those who decry Trump without realising when he is joking.
    Perhaps. Except Biden has form for doing exactly this
    There’s literally dozens of examples of him reading a teleprompter far too literally, and saying the speaker notes out loud.

    https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=Biden+reading+teleprompter
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    In 1988 VAT was charged at 15 per cent, and not at all on Greggs pasties.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,562
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
    It’s quite hard to overstate the profundity of his disability. I saw a tv interview last night - CNN - which said intel had noticed 20-30 occasions in the last year when he seemed to completely freeze. Not just mumble or forget things - “turn into a zombie” - and it’s getting worse, fast

    It’s tragic and cruel and ridiculous
    I haven’t seen it but there is nothing unusual in public speaking in making it clear when your quote has finished and that it’s back to you.

    Generally I thought it was a powerful speech about a truly terrible decision that does indeed threaten the rule of law in America.
    His face was all orange
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,859
    edited July 2

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on “people apparently not working”

    I basically work every waking hour - 365 days a year. Some of us don’t get holidays

    My problem is people don’t see the work so they think I’ve got it easy. Eg when I’m sipping my Kir Breton in sunny Camaret sur Mer, courtesy of the French taxpayer, and staring vaguely and happily at the dolphins in the bay - I’m working. In my head. I’m thinking about that next flint - or the next Gazette piece, or where I can have oysters

    It never stops - it’s relentless. And it’s people like me that keep the world turning when everyone else has got their feet up, watching Season 3 of Traitors

    I like to call us “the silent heroes”

    What’s a “holiday”?

    I have had one morning off since November 2019. I wish things would calm down a little!
    Same here, mate

    It actually *gets my goat* when I hear people wanking on and on about their “holibobs”

    Think about us poor grunts who never get a holiday - the galley slaves of modern Britain. Just because you can’t see us doesn’t mean we don’t exist - quietly keeping things going
    Lots of people have a holibob at Crimble. Even if at no other season.
    Yes. Many have had their holibobs curtailed by cozzy livs.
    Yeahbut gobsmacked at how many peoples is on holibobs at genny lec time. It's incredulous.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,364
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    Each generation has its challenges, but coming of age in the Eighties wasn't always great for young people, what with mass unemployment etc.

    Sure house prices were a lot lower in 1992 when I first bought a place with Mrs Foxy, but deposited were higher, interest rates higher and we were restricted to 3x income. Even so mortgage cost me 40% of my more heavily taxed income, so we weren't by any means flush.

    In principle I would like a higher percentage of the population paying income tax, even if at a fairly low rate. Everyone in work should be contributing something to the national coffers.
    Deposits were not higher.

    10% of a house today is considerable more than a deposit in 1992.

    It would be fixed with house prices collapsing back in real terms.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,239
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on “people apparently not working”

    I basically work every waking hour - 365 days a year. Some of us don’t get holidays

    My problem is people don’t see the work so they think I’ve got it easy. Eg when I’m sipping my Kir Breton in sunny Camaret sur Mer, courtesy of the French taxpayer, and staring vaguely and happily at the dolphins in the bay - I’m working. In my head. I’m thinking about that next flint - or the next Gazette piece, or where I can have oysters

    It never stops - it’s relentless. And it’s people like me that keep the world turning when everyone else has got their feet up, watching Season 3 of Traitors

    I like to call us “the silent heroes”

    What’s a “holiday”?

    I have had one morning off since November 2019. I wish things would calm down a little!
    Same here, mate

    It actually *gets my goat* when I hear people wanking on and on about their “holibobs”

    Think about us poor grunts who never get a holiday - the galley slaves of modern Britain. Just because you can’t see us doesn’t mean we don’t exist - quietly keeping things going
    I thought your target market is people wanking on and on about their holibobs.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
    It’s quite hard to overstate the profundity of his disability. I saw a tv interview last night - CNN - which said intel had noticed 20-30 occasions in the last year when he seemed to completely freeze. Not just mumble or forget things - “turn into a zombie” - and it’s getting worse, fast

    It’s tragic and cruel and ridiculous
    I haven’t seen it but there is nothing unusual in public speaking in making it clear when your quote has finished and that it’s back to you.

    Generally I thought it was a powerful speech about a truly terrible decision that does indeed threaten the rule of law in America.
    His face was all orange
    As I have said I haven’t seen it and I don’t disagree that he is way too old for this. But I struggle to see how the Democrats replace him at this stage.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,890
    What an interesting header - thank-you @viewcode .

    Have you bet online at all this time?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
    It’s quite hard to overstate the profundity of his disability
    Although not for you apparently
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,614
    edited July 2

    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.

    It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority

    Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
    I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count

    I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    In 1988 VAT was charged at 15 per cent, and not at all on Greggs pasties.
    I remember the shock when Howe increased it to 15%. As always in taxation the unthinkable becomes the new normal all too quickly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,562
    Can any batrachologist explain this? A French lefty says in realty the RN ended up with only 29%

    That’s a major difference. But is it true? Why the discrepancy?

    https://x.com/benjaminamar4/status/1807828782780236056?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,614
    Farooq said:

    Good morning

    I haven't posted much recently, partly because I have been doing other things, but also as I do not bet the vagaries of opinion polls which as far as I can tell are hardly changing are not of much interest as the result is not in doubt with Starmer winning a substantial majority

    On the subject of other things, my wife and I took the Snowdon Mountain Railway to the summit for the first time in 50 years and within 500 feet of the summit, the weather changed distinctly for the worse with heavy rain, drizzle, terrible visibility, and near freezing temperatures

    On the one hour journey up to the summit the footpaths were very busy and many were properly dressed, but the number that were in tee shirts, shorts and trainers was astonishing and irresponsible for walking/hiking in the mountains

    However, the main point of my post was that we sat with 2 US teachers on vacation here in Wales and the conversation inevitably turned to the US election

    They are both Democrats but in absolute despair and not happy that Jill Biden has not taken Joe aside and out of the contest

    They are aware of the imminent election of a centre left Labour Party under Starmer here, but were like most of us very concerned about the move to the right in Europe and the thought of Trump saw them literally bury their heads in their hands

    These are dangerous times for most electorates and we parted in Llanberis commenting that nobody seems to have a clue what to do to resolve the issues, but agreed that despite the summit weather we really enjoyed our time together and we wished then well as they left to visit Caernarvon castle

    Agree on the Trump thing. It's terrible to see Republicans fully aware that their guy has a terrible record and still falling in behind him anyway. Anyone who votes for the same people time and time again despite their own judgement on how it went last time needs to give their head a shake.

    Glad we agree on something, eh, G?
    I am always pleased to be on the same page with you
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,859
    Ghedebrav said:

    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    The constant illiterate use of this phrase is twisting my melon (man).

    That's setting aside the ludicrousness of campaigning to please not let us do *too* badly. Pathetic stuff. I'm a bit disheartened by the apparent, if small, Tory 'swingback' in the polling though. I don't understand how anyone can vote for such a parcel of incompetents. I guess if I had a Charles Walker-ish decent fellow as my MP, then maybe.
    Yes. Supermajority does have a specific meaning in some systems. Where achieving X% vote or seats or whatever allows Y to do stuff they otherwise could not.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    Nigelb said:

    Ferrari: “[Starmer] paid testament to your generosity of spirit. Is there anything you admire about Sir Keir?”

    Sunak: “These jobs take a toll and I think he does a very good job of balancing work life and family life and making time for it.”

    https://x.com/sturdyAlex/status/1807904340105126119

    It's good we still find room for this in British politics.

    Reflects well on him.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,904
    edited July 2
    Leon said:

    Can any batrachologist explain this? A French lefty says in realty the RN ended up with only 29%

    That’s a major difference. But is it true? Why the discrepancy?

    https://x.com/benjaminamar4/status/1807828782780236056?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Is that because the RN were in alliance with some other smaller groups, and so the 33% figure more widely used is for their alliance, of which they themselves took 29%?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    algarkirk said:

    Tice absolutely 10th rate on R4 Today this morning. Toe curling.

    I thought that too, but then I remembered his target market don't hear it the way I do. They will have felt he was being unfairly hounded by Nick Robinson and the victim of BBC bias, and it will have confirmed their feeling there is an establishment conspiracy to silence the real voice of the people.

    Contrast with the earlier interview with Tim Farron, which involved a few difficult questions but was well handled and allowed him to get across the key Lib Dem points. I saw that as a good interview, even though I think their plans for water companies are a bit ill thought out. A reformer would have just listened and spat at the radio as namby pamby liberal Tim blathers on about sewage.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,124

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on “people apparently not working”

    I basically work every waking hour - 365 days a year. Some of us don’t get holidays

    My problem is people don’t see the work so they think I’ve got it easy. Eg when I’m sipping my Kir Breton in sunny Camaret sur Mer, courtesy of the French taxpayer, and staring vaguely and happily at the dolphins in the bay - I’m working. In my head. I’m thinking about that next flint - or the next Gazette piece, or where I can have oysters

    It never stops - it’s relentless. And it’s people like me that keep the world turning when everyone else has got their feet up, watching Season 3 of Traitors

    I like to call us “the silent heroes”

    What’s a “holiday”?

    I have had one morning off since November 2019. I wish things would calm down a little!
    Same here, mate

    It actually *gets my goat* when I hear people wanking on and on about their “holibobs”

    Think about us poor grunts who never get a holiday - the galley slaves of modern Britain. Just because you can’t see us doesn’t mean we don’t exist - quietly keeping things going
    Lots of people have a holibob at Crimble. Even if at no other season.
    Yes. Many have had their holibobs curtailed by cozzy livs.
    https://giphy.com/gifs/gotham-foxtv-fox-broadcasting-3oKIPzGbWJck8AM0y4
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,904
    Orban is visiting Kyiv today, as Hungary takes up leadership of the EU Council. That's interesting and unexpected.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,562

    Leon said:

    Can any batrachologist explain this? A French lefty says in realty the RN ended up with only 29%

    That’s a major difference. But is it true? Why the discrepancy?

    https://x.com/benjaminamar4/status/1807828782780236056?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Is that because the RN were in alliance with some other smaller groups, and so the 33% figure more widely used is for their alliance, of which they themselves took 29%?
    Yes could be. However I don’t recall this alliance being mentioned before - but French politics is seriously Byzantine so mebbes
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
    It’s quite hard to overstate the profundity of his disability. I saw a tv interview last night - CNN - which said intel had noticed 20-30 occasions in the last year when he seemed to completely freeze. Not just mumble or forget things - “turn into a zombie” - and it’s getting worse, fast

    It’s tragic and cruel and ridiculous
    I haven’t seen it but there is nothing unusual in public speaking in making it clear when your quote has finished and that it’s back to you.

    Generally I thought it was a powerful speech about a truly terrible decision that does indeed threaten the rule of law in America.
    His face was all orange
    As I have said I haven’t seen it and I don’t disagree that he is way too old for this. But I struggle to see how the Democrats replace him at this stage.
    Ousting him is probably impossible. If he can be pressured into going voluntarily on unspecified medical grounds that's a foreseeable state of affairs because presidents do get ill and assassinated and so on, and there are ways of dealing with it. They need more men in grey suits
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    In 1988 VAT was charged at 15 per cent, and not at all on Greggs pasties.
    When VAT was first introduced it was 10%.Thatcher raised it to its current levels.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    edited July 2
    ...

    Nigelb said:

    Ferrari: “[Starmer] paid testament to your generosity of spirit. Is there anything you admire about Sir Keir?”

    Sunak: “These jobs take a toll and I think he does a very good job of balancing work life and family life and making time for it.”

    https://x.com/sturdyAlex/status/1807904340105126119

    It's good we still find room for this in British politics.

    Reflects well on him.
    Not really. This old clip was a juxtaposition against Sunak saying Starmer is a lazy bastard for knocking off at six for Friday Night Dinner.

    The suggestion being that Sunak's heartfelt admiration for Starmer balancing work and family was not heartfelt at all.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Erm, I strongly suspect it was intended Biden use the words, "end of quote", since he is quoting one of the judges' dissent and not his own.

    You make the same error as some of those who decry Trump without realising when he is joking.
    Perhaps. Except Biden has form for doing exactly this
    There’s literally dozens of examples of him reading a teleprompter far too literally, and saying the speaker notes out loud.

    https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=Biden+reading+teleprompter
    Yo Semites.
  • madmacsmadmacs Posts: 93
    Last nights you gov tactical poll was interesting. It showed that whilst 37% would be voting Labour, it was only the preferred choice of 29%, so 8% voting tactically. The biggest losers were the Greens, preferred choice 13% - actual 7%. Lot of Lib Dem tactical votes in and out so mis-using Eric Morecambe looks like the Lib Dems and Labour may get the right votes in the right places.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,562

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
    It’s quite hard to overstate the profundity of his disability. I saw a tv interview last night - CNN - which said intel had noticed 20-30 occasions in the last year when he seemed to completely freeze. Not just mumble or forget things - “turn into a zombie” - and it’s getting worse, fast

    It’s tragic and cruel and ridiculous
    I haven’t seen it but there is nothing unusual in public speaking in making it clear when your quote has finished and that it’s back to you.

    Generally I thought it was a powerful speech about a truly terrible decision that does indeed threaten the rule of law in America.
    His face was all orange
    As I have said I haven’t seen it and I don’t disagree that he is way too old for this. But I struggle to see how the Democrats replace him at this stage.
    Ousting him is probably impossible. If he can be pressured into going voluntarily on unspecified medical grounds that's a foreseeable state of affairs because presidents do get ill and assassinated and so on, and there are ways of dealing with it. They need more men in grey suits
    Biden can’t function without money. If the major Dem donors all pulled the plug he’d have to resign tonight
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,890
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Agghhh I have done it again, posted on the last thread. @Leon I asked you a question about the ferry that I would like your feedback on. Cheers.

    Ask away
    In a car I use the tunnel, but on a bike I use ferries. Cyclists get treated like Gods by the ferries. Front of the queue (and don't have to queue), car escort out.

    Are you on foot? Would be good to know how that works?
    Unless you have been going to Ireland this year :smile: .
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    edited July 2
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    In 1988 VAT was charged at 15 per cent, and not at all on Greggs pasties.
    I remember the shock when Howe increased it to 15%. As always in taxation the unthinkable becomes the new normal all too quickly.
    After Mrs Thatcher had denied plans to double VAT. Technically, she was correct, as it rose from 8 to 15 per cent.

    Her greatest trick was persuading the body politic that only income tax counts.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    Newcastle’s Swan House roundabout has a huge electronic ad with a picture of Rishi looking sleepy with the text saying “don’t wake up to another 5 years of the tories”. Slay.

    Apparently this was a real ad in 2005

    https://x.com/labour_history/status/1807666140333695482
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Password, is Orban doing recon for Putin?
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861

    On topic, at least one of the majority high street bookmakers have terminals in where you can can access their online offering without an online account. You load up your money, find your market and place your bet. Not sure of limits or if they replicate 100% of their website offering.

    They don't replicate their online offering - and when they do the prices are often shorter and the terms worse. For example each way bets with less places in shop than online. The way that shop punters are literally mugged by the bookies is an absolute disgrace.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    In 1988 VAT was charged at 15 per cent, and not at all on Greggs pasties.
    I remember the shock when Howe increased it to 15%. As always in taxation the unthinkable becomes the new normal all too quickly.
    After Mrs Thatcher had denied plans to double VAT. Technically, she was correct, as it rose from 8 to 15 per cent.

    Her greatest trick was persuading the body politic that only income tax counts.
    To be fair, 8% was a nuisance to retailers in the days before calculators were freely available. 10% was much easier!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
    It’s quite hard to overstate the profundity of his disability. I saw a tv interview last night - CNN - which said intel had noticed 20-30 occasions in the last year when he seemed to completely freeze. Not just mumble or forget things - “turn into a zombie” - and it’s getting worse, fast

    It’s tragic and cruel and ridiculous
    I haven’t seen it but there is nothing unusual in public speaking in making it clear when your quote has finished and that it’s back to you.

    Generally I thought it was a powerful speech about a truly terrible decision that does indeed threaten the rule of law in America.
    His face was all orange
    As I have said I haven’t seen it and I don’t disagree that he is way too old for this. But I struggle to see how the Democrats replace him at this stage.
    Ousting him is probably impossible. If he can be pressured into going voluntarily on unspecified medical grounds that's a foreseeable state of affairs because presidents do get ill and assassinated and so on, and there are ways of dealing with it. They need more men in grey suits
    Part of the problem is of course that the American system has no men in grey suits. There is no Graham Brady counting (some say badly) incoming letters of discontent.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Agghhh I have done it again, posted on the last thread. @Leon I asked you a question about the ferry that I would like your feedback on. Cheers.

    Ask away
    In a car I use the tunnel, but on a bike I use ferries. Cyclists get treated like Gods by the ferries. Front of the queue (and don't have to queue), car escort out.

    Are you on foot? Would be good to know how that works?
    Unless you have been going to Ireland this year :smile: .
    It seems that on some but not all Plymouth Roscoff sailings it's £3 cheaper to go with a bike than without one, puzzlingly
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    In 1988 VAT was charged at 15 per cent, and not at all on Greggs pasties.
    When VAT was first introduced it was 10%.Thatcher raised it to its current levels.
    Osborne, surely?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,562
    From the Vogue interview with Jill Biden. A glimpse of why she might be keen for hubby to cling on

    Hideous Vogue prose but it gives a picture

    “I If you want to know what power feels like, try to get yourself driven around in a motorcade. Flashing police chaperone lights form a perimeter as you blaze down an empty highway, waiting cars backed up on entry ramps as you pass. It’s as if the world is holding its breath. For you. Also, rules don’t apply.”

    “At Nine Mile, an entourage of 30 or so are noisily hustling to follow a trim, blond woman in a pristine white suit as she strides nonchalantly past clanging, gurgling brewing vats, aiming for a back office. This is my first glimpse of first lady Dr. Jill Biden: Exiting the sealed chamber of power into the middle of America, a vision of calm amid utter cacophony.”

    https://x.com/katiepavlich/status/1807734513692278935?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Heathener said:

    Slightly on topic, I’d like to thank those of you who advised me about ApplePay on my iWatch.

    I did indeed install it but with the proviso of the simple double-click side button, which you can disable. It has been absolutely fantastic. I LOVE it. No more fiddling around with cards jammed inside my purse etc. and no need to take out my phone either.

    So easy-peasy. Particularly enjoyable on London underground tap in and out.

    Yep. It is superb. No idea why anyone bothers with cards or indeed cash. They are utterly pointless clutter these days.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,890
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
    It’s quite hard to overstate the profundity of his disability. I saw a tv interview last night - CNN - which said intel had noticed 20-30 occasions in the last year when he seemed to completely freeze. Not just mumble or forget things - “turn into a zombie” - and it’s getting worse, fast

    It’s tragic and cruel and ridiculous
    Ah. The profundity of the punditry.

    (c) Guido.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    edited July 2
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ferrari: “[Starmer] paid testament to your generosity of spirit. Is there anything you admire about Sir Keir?”

    Sunak: “These jobs take a toll and I think he does a very good job of balancing work life and family life and making time for it.”

    https://x.com/sturdyAlex/status/1807904340105126119

    It's good we still find room for this in British politics.

    Reflects well on him.
    The point being he said this 2 weeks ago, and now his party are running relentless attack ads on Keir for daring to finish work at 6pm on Friday. They are absolutely shameless.
    Considering Downing St knocked off for wine time at 1600 Friday even in the middle of the covid crisis, 1800 shows a real work ethic in comparison.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    stjohn said:

    On topic, at least one of the majority high street bookmakers have terminals in where you can can access their online offering without an online account. You load up your money, find your market and place your bet. Not sure of limits or if they replicate 100% of their website offering.

    They don't replicate their online offering - and when they do the prices are often shorter and the terms worse. For example each way bets with less places in shop than online. The way that shop punters are literally mugged by the bookies is an absolute disgrace.
    The one exception is Betfred's boosted prices which generally are more generous to shop customers, although at least on racing have declined in recent weeks.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963

    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.

    It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority

    Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
    I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count

    I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
    No I get it - we don't want Farage.

    That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.

    How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
    It’s quite hard to overstate the profundity of his disability. I saw a tv interview last night - CNN - which said intel had noticed 20-30 occasions in the last year when he seemed to completely freeze. Not just mumble or forget things - “turn into a zombie” - and it’s getting worse, fast

    It’s tragic and cruel and ridiculous
    I haven’t seen it but there is nothing unusual in public speaking in making it clear when your quote has finished and that it’s back to you.

    Generally I thought it was a powerful speech about a truly terrible decision that does indeed threaten the rule of law in America.
    His face was all orange
    As I have said I haven’t seen it and I don’t disagree that he is way too old for this. But I struggle to see how the Democrats replace him at this stage.
    Ousting him is probably impossible. If he can be pressured into going voluntarily on unspecified medical grounds that's a foreseeable state of affairs because presidents do get ill and assassinated and so on, and there are ways of dealing with it. They need more men in grey suits
    Part of the problem is of course that the American system has no men in grey suits. There is no Graham Brady counting (some say badly) incoming letters of discontent.
    There are fundraisers and PAC administrators though, many of whom will have been taking frantic calls from large donors in the past few days. If Soros pulls the plug on donations, he’ll be out tomorrow. They need to raise at least a billion dollars, if not two, between now and the election.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,904

    Mr. Password, is Orban doing recon for Putin?

    Mr Dancer, you have a devious mind suitable for writing outlandish works of fiction.

    This might simply be Orban doing something symbolic to head off European criticism of his Russophilia. But I can't help but allow my optimism to burst forth, and wonder whether he's finally realised that having Russia as a neighbour won't be nearly as much fun as playing pals with them at a safe distance.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    Leon said:

    From the Vogue interview with Jill Biden. A glimpse of why she might be keen for hubby to cling on

    Hideous Vogue prose but it gives a picture

    “I If you want to know what power feels like, try to get yourself driven around in a motorcade. Flashing police chaperone lights form a perimeter as you blaze down an empty highway, waiting cars backed up on entry ramps as you pass. It’s as if the world is holding its breath. For you. Also, rules don’t apply.”

    “At Nine Mile, an entourage of 30 or so are noisily hustling to follow a trim, blond woman in a pristine white suit as she strides nonchalantly past clanging, gurgling brewing vats, aiming for a back office. This is my first glimpse of first lady Dr. Jill Biden: Exiting the sealed chamber of power into the middle of America, a vision of calm amid utter cacophony.”

    https://x.com/katiepavlich/status/1807734513692278935?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Maybe she is thinking that if he wins by some miracle she won’t need to look after him? He will have wall to wall carers and doctors so she can crack on with her life whilst he gets wheeled to the White House podium on a parcel trolley like an unmasked Hannibal Lecter and wheeled back to the private wing of the White House after the meds boosted national pep talk.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,932

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    In 1988 VAT was charged at 15 per cent, and not at all on Greggs pasties.
    I remember the shock when Howe increased it to 15%. As always in taxation the unthinkable becomes the new normal all too quickly.
    After Mrs Thatcher had denied plans to double VAT. Technically, she was correct, as it rose from 8 to 15 per cent.

    Her greatest trick was persuading the body politic that only income tax counts.
    To be fair, 8% was a nuisance to retailers in the days before calculators were freely available. 10% was much easier!
    I remember 17.5%
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,951

    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.

    It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority

    Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
    I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count

    I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
    No I get it - we don't want Farage.

    That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.

    How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
    I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,859
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ferrari: “[Starmer] paid testament to your generosity of spirit. Is there anything you admire about Sir Keir?”

    Sunak: “These jobs take a toll and I think he does a very good job of balancing work life and family life and making time for it.”

    https://x.com/sturdyAlex/status/1807904340105126119

    It's good we still find room for this in British politics.

    Reflects well on him.
    The point being he said this 2 weeks ago, and now his party are running relentless attack ads on Keir for daring to finish work at 6pm on Friday. They are absolutely shameless.
    Considering Downing St knocked off for wine time at 1600 Friday even in the middle of the covid crisis, 1800 shows a real work ethic in comparison.
    I thought they counted that as work time? The DfE certainly did.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,562
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    From the Vogue interview with Jill Biden. A glimpse of why she might be keen for hubby to cling on

    Hideous Vogue prose but it gives a picture

    “I If you want to know what power feels like, try to get yourself driven around in a motorcade. Flashing police chaperone lights form a perimeter as you blaze down an empty highway, waiting cars backed up on entry ramps as you pass. It’s as if the world is holding its breath. For you. Also, rules don’t apply.”

    “At Nine Mile, an entourage of 30 or so are noisily hustling to follow a trim, blond woman in a pristine white suit as she strides nonchalantly past clanging, gurgling brewing vats, aiming for a back office. This is my first glimpse of first lady Dr. Jill Biden: Exiting the sealed chamber of power into the middle of America, a vision of calm amid utter cacophony.”

    https://x.com/katiepavlich/status/1807734513692278935?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Maybe she is thinking that if he wins by some miracle she won’t need to look after him? He will have wall to wall carers and doctors so she can crack on with her life whilst he gets wheeled to the White House podium on a parcel trolley like an unmasked Hannibal Lecter and wheeled back to the private wing of the White House after the meds boosted national pep talk.
    lol. Excellent image. He’s basically at the Lecter stage now
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    In 1988 VAT was charged at 15 per cent, and not at all on Greggs pasties.
    When VAT was first introduced it was 10%.Thatcher raised it to its current levels.
    Osborne, surely?
    2011. It had been 17.5% for years. I remember in the 1990s dividing by (IIRC) 1.175 to get the pre VAT figure from invoices.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Scott_xP said:

    Newcastle’s Swan House roundabout has a huge electronic ad with a picture of Rishi looking sleepy with the text saying “don’t wake up to another 5 years of the tories”. Slay.

    Apparently this was a real ad in 2005

    https://x.com/labour_history/status/1807666140333695482
    At over two minutes, that is very long for a broadcast advert. Was it perhaps a film made for the party conference?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    In 1988 VAT was charged at 15 per cent, and not at all on Greggs pasties.
    I remember the shock when Howe increased it to 15%. As always in taxation the unthinkable becomes the new normal all too quickly.
    After Mrs Thatcher had denied plans to double VAT. Technically, she was correct, as it rose from 8 to 15 per cent.

    Her greatest trick was persuading the body politic that only income tax counts.
    To be fair, 8% was a nuisance to retailers in the days before calculators were freely available. 10% was much easier!
    I remember 17.5%
    Seven Fooooorty sevenths :D
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,614

    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.

    It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority

    Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
    I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count

    I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
    No I get it - we don't want Farage.

    That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.

    How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
    The answer is I have no idea but it will depend on many factors and events that are for the future

    Since 2019 we have had brexit, covid and war in Ukraine which by any definition are extraordinary in one parliamentary term
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Heathener said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    Tres said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    I believe the polls in this election have not been correct. We will find out on Friday.

    The unusual choices the voters are making must be making life hard for them.

    Would account for the lack of herding.

    We will know either way when Sunderland South comes in
    Sunderland South is hardly representative of all the other seats.

    I'd say we won't really know until we start seeing a few LD target seats too: Harrogate & Knaresborough at c. 01:45, maybe not until Cheltenham and Eastleigh around 03:00.
    Do people not think the exit poll will give at least a rough idea of which category the result is in?
    Well quite. MrEd/MisterBedfordshire is weirdo Trumpian trollcaster who knows very little about psephology. Hence his now legendary ‘tip’ for Trump to carry VA in Potus 2020, which Trump lost by 11 points.
    I'm not Mr Ed. I stopped posting in 2016 until recently

    I also don't go round insulting other posters.

    Insulting other posters including me because you disagree with their posts says more about you than you intended to reveal.
    Happy to take you word for it but your posts are uncannily similar to his and then there's the MrEd/MisterBedfordshire name similarity.

    Still remember enjoying a good few beers with Mr Ed at the last PB gathering, shame he got himself banned.
    IIUC, @MrEd is not the same as @MrBedfordshire . @MrBedfordshire claims to be the same person as @Paul_Bedfordshire , who stopped posting in 2016. I assume the mods can confirm/deny
    @misterbedfordshire.

    @mrbedfordshire didn't work and has zilch posts because google (gmail) blocked @rcs1000 email message in response to registration to verify the email address because it came from Vanilla not @rcs1000 so googles spoofing klaxons went off (@paul.... had similar problems after the interregnum since 2016)

    So @misterbedfordshire came into existence via a non gmail email which didn't block the please verify email address message.

    If you are registered here with a gmail address and you need vanilla to send a message to it for any reason (like you forgot your password) you is stuffed.


    Ain't life grand.
    also Mr Ed would never willingly get on a bus. I'm buying it.
    The view that "Buses are for poor people" boils my pee
    A lovely surprise this morning to find myself in agreement with you on something.

    I take buses loads. They’re a great way to see the world, both outside and inside the windows.
    Top deck on a rural double decker bus is fantastic. Especially at this time of year
    Buses are the simplest and cheapest way to take some heat out of the housing market. Make city centres more accessible from the towns, villages and suburbs so you don't have to scrap it out for a walking-distance flat.
    The big game changer, especially for rural and lesser used suburban routes where buses run less frequently, sometimes only every 2-3 hours, is the satellite tracker.

    Now you can sit at home or wherever and track the bus on a map in comfort, going to the stop when it is a few minutes away.

    The days of waiting ages in the wind and rain for buses that don't turn up are OVER. But sadly too few people know about this.

    If you have not got this website saved on your phone, do it and get it.

    https://bustimes.org/
    c.c. @Eabhal @Carnyx
    ;)


    That*s all very well, but is it the fifth day including today, or the fifth day starting from tomorrow?

    (With apologies to Bart)
    🤣One month to go until the election. You have to count the WHOLE month.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,562
    The Biden orange face thing is truly weird

    Ok I get he had a deathly pallor at the debate which wasn’t great. But one of the most absurd things about Trump is the orange spray fake tan - why the F would you copy that, making you look as weird as Trump but much less coherent?

    I wonder if there are people in the Biden circle who know he’s not fit; and they’re in despair; and they’re quietly sabotaging him in the hope he quits
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,364

    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.

    It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority

    Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
    I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count

    I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
    No I get it - we don't want Farage.

    That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.

    How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
    The answer is I have no idea but it will depend on many factors and events that are for the future

    Since 2019 we have had brexit, covid and war in Ukraine which by any definition are extraordinary in one parliamentary term
    They are.

    So we should be all in it together.

    Instead Rishi wants to freeze tax thresholds for those working for a living, and implement the triple lock plus for those who are not.

    No thanks.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    From the Vogue interview with Jill Biden. A glimpse of why she might be keen for hubby to cling on

    Hideous Vogue prose but it gives a picture

    “I If you want to know what power feels like, try to get yourself driven around in a motorcade. Flashing police chaperone lights form a perimeter as you blaze down an empty highway, waiting cars backed up on entry ramps as you pass. It’s as if the world is holding its breath. For you. Also, rules don’t apply.”

    “At Nine Mile, an entourage of 30 or so are noisily hustling to follow a trim, blond woman in a pristine white suit as she strides nonchalantly past clanging, gurgling brewing vats, aiming for a back office. This is my first glimpse of first lady Dr. Jill Biden: Exiting the sealed chamber of power into the middle of America, a vision of calm amid utter cacophony.”

    https://x.com/katiepavlich/status/1807734513692278935?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Maybe she is thinking that if he wins by some miracle she won’t need to look after him? He will have wall to wall carers and doctors so she can crack on with her life whilst he gets wheeled to the White House podium on a parcel trolley like an unmasked Hannibal Lecter and wheeled back to the private wing of the White House after the meds boosted national pep talk.
    Could the Dems offer her a sweetener, Dowager First Lady kinda position?

    Someone helpfully referred to Edith Wilson yesterday. She was basically acting president after Woodrow had a serious stroke. Scope for another Macbeth themed header here.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    Mr. Password, is Orban doing recon for Putin?

    Mr Dancer, you have a devious mind suitable for writing outlandish works of fiction.

    This might simply be Orban doing something symbolic to head off European criticism of his Russophilia. But I can't help but allow my optimism to burst forth, and wonder whether he's finally realised that having Russia as a neighbour won't be nearly as much fun as playing pals with them at a safe distance.
    I seem to recall the Hungarians being quite severely ‘dealt with’ by the Russians back in the 1950’s.
    Perhaps Orban has been talking to his dad!
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,364

    Heathener said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    Tres said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    I believe the polls in this election have not been correct. We will find out on Friday.

    The unusual choices the voters are making must be making life hard for them.

    Would account for the lack of herding.

    We will know either way when Sunderland South comes in
    Sunderland South is hardly representative of all the other seats.

    I'd say we won't really know until we start seeing a few LD target seats too: Harrogate & Knaresborough at c. 01:45, maybe not until Cheltenham and Eastleigh around 03:00.
    Do people not think the exit poll will give at least a rough idea of which category the result is in?
    Well quite. MrEd/MisterBedfordshire is weirdo Trumpian trollcaster who knows very little about psephology. Hence his now legendary ‘tip’ for Trump to carry VA in Potus 2020, which Trump lost by 11 points.
    I'm not Mr Ed. I stopped posting in 2016 until recently

    I also don't go round insulting other posters.

    Insulting other posters including me because you disagree with their posts says more about you than you intended to reveal.
    Happy to take you word for it but your posts are uncannily similar to his and then there's the MrEd/MisterBedfordshire name similarity.

    Still remember enjoying a good few beers with Mr Ed at the last PB gathering, shame he got himself banned.
    IIUC, @MrEd is not the same as @MrBedfordshire . @MrBedfordshire claims to be the same person as @Paul_Bedfordshire , who stopped posting in 2016. I assume the mods can confirm/deny
    @misterbedfordshire.

    @mrbedfordshire didn't work and has zilch posts because google (gmail) blocked @rcs1000 email message in response to registration to verify the email address because it came from Vanilla not @rcs1000 so googles spoofing klaxons went off (@paul.... had similar problems after the interregnum since 2016)

    So @misterbedfordshire came into existence via a non gmail email which didn't block the please verify email address message.

    If you are registered here with a gmail address and you need vanilla to send a message to it for any reason (like you forgot your password) you is stuffed.


    Ain't life grand.
    also Mr Ed would never willingly get on a bus. I'm buying it.
    The view that "Buses are for poor people" boils my pee
    A lovely surprise this morning to find myself in agreement with you on something.

    I take buses loads. They’re a great way to see the world, both outside and inside the windows.
    Top deck on a rural double decker bus is fantastic. Especially at this time of year
    Buses are the simplest and cheapest way to take some heat out of the housing market. Make city centres more accessible from the towns, villages and suburbs so you don't have to scrap it out for a walking-distance flat.
    The big game changer, especially for rural and lesser used suburban routes where buses run less frequently, sometimes only every 2-3 hours, is the satellite tracker.

    Now you can sit at home or wherever and track the bus on a map in comfort, going to the stop when it is a few minutes away.

    The days of waiting ages in the wind and rain for buses that don't turn up are OVER. But sadly too few people know about this.

    If you have not got this website saved on your phone, do it and get it.

    https://bustimes.org/
    c.c. @Eabhal @Carnyx
    ;)


    That*s all very well, but is it the fifth day including today, or the fifth day starting from tomorrow?

    (With apologies to Bart)
    🤣One month to go until the election. You have to count the WHOLE month.
    I never said that.

    This is the month of the election, yes, just as at this time on Thursday will be the day of the election and the election won't be over yet.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.

    It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority

    Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
    I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count

    I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
    No I get it - we don't want Farage.

    That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.

    How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
    I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
    Or Labour.

    I'm voting Labour for only the second time ever. Literally because they're promising planning reform and principles over party.

    If Tories want centre right voters back, they need to appeal to them.

    Simply being a high tax, high spend, nasty about people who want spending, nasty about foreigners but not nasty enough to stop migration party is appealing to about nobody.
    Fair enough. Good for you. And well argued. One of the most bizarre developments was @Big_G_NorthWales voting Tory despite wanting the Tories out. That one I still haven’t get my head around.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    From the Vogue interview with Jill Biden. A glimpse of why she might be keen for hubby to cling on

    Hideous Vogue prose but it gives a picture

    “I If you want to know what power feels like, try to get yourself driven around in a motorcade. Flashing police chaperone lights form a perimeter as you blaze down an empty highway, waiting cars backed up on entry ramps as you pass. It’s as if the world is holding its breath. For you. Also, rules don’t apply.”

    “At Nine Mile, an entourage of 30 or so are noisily hustling to follow a trim, blond woman in a pristine white suit as she strides nonchalantly past clanging, gurgling brewing vats, aiming for a back office. This is my first glimpse of first lady Dr. Jill Biden: Exiting the sealed chamber of power into the middle of America, a vision of calm amid utter cacophony.”

    https://x.com/katiepavlich/status/1807734513692278935?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Maybe she is thinking that if he wins by some miracle she won’t need to look after him? He will have wall to wall carers and doctors so she can crack on with her life whilst he gets wheeled to the White House podium on a parcel trolley like an unmasked Hannibal Lecter and wheeled back to the private wing of the White House after the meds boosted national pep talk.
    Could the Dems offer her a sweetener, Dowager First Lady kinda position?

    Someone helpfully referred to Edith Wilson yesterday. She was basically acting president after Woodrow had a serious stroke. Scope for another Macbeth themed header here.
    Sounds like a plan.

    Who would have a stab at a Macbeth themed header?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    edited July 2
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    No matter how much is given to the poor there are always demands to give them more.

    For some reason the poor have become sanctified as if they were cows in India.

    A significant proportion of the populace go through every year of their lives being a net recipient of government spending.

    I remember hearing that is what all because of the lack of jobs and opportunities.

    Well in the last few years the jobs and opportunities have been available, so available that millions want to come from the third world to take them.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,239
    edited July 2

    Orban is visiting Kyiv today, as Hungary takes up leadership of the EU Council. That's interesting and unexpected.

    I am of course totally opposed to Russia firing one of its many and deadly missiles towards Kyiv.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    No matter how much is given to the poor there are always demands to give them more.

    For some reason the poor have become sanctified as if they were cows in India.

    A significant proportion of the populace go through every year of their lives being a net recipient of government spending.

    I remember hearing that is what all because of the lack of jobs and opportunities.

    Well in the last few years the jobs and opportunities have been available, so available that millions want to come from the third world to take them.
    Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore, riding through the land
    Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore, without a merry band.
    He steals from the poor and gives to the rich -
    Stupid bitch!

    https://youtu.be/qLkhx0eqK5w?si=ESfMhphU5sStsrad
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    In 1988 VAT was charged at 15 per cent, and not at all on Greggs pasties.
    I remember the shock when Howe increased it to 15%. As always in taxation the unthinkable becomes the new normal all too quickly.
    After Mrs Thatcher had denied plans to double VAT. Technically, she was correct, as it rose from 8 to 15 per cent.

    Her greatest trick was persuading the body politic that only income tax counts.
    To be fair, 8% was a nuisance to retailers in the days before calculators were freely available. 10% was much easier!
    I remember 17.5%
    Seven Fooooorty sevenths :D
    Actually that wasn’t as bad as 8; 10%, plus half, plus half again!
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    From the Vogue interview with Jill Biden. A glimpse of why she might be keen for hubby to cling on

    Hideous Vogue prose but it gives a picture

    “I If you want to know what power feels like, try to get yourself driven around in a motorcade. Flashing police chaperone lights form a perimeter as you blaze down an empty highway, waiting cars backed up on entry ramps as you pass. It’s as if the world is holding its breath. For you. Also, rules don’t apply.”

    “At Nine Mile, an entourage of 30 or so are noisily hustling to follow a trim, blond woman in a pristine white suit as she strides nonchalantly past clanging, gurgling brewing vats, aiming for a back office. This is my first glimpse of first lady Dr. Jill Biden: Exiting the sealed chamber of power into the middle of America, a vision of calm amid utter cacophony.”

    https://x.com/katiepavlich/status/1807734513692278935?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Maybe she is thinking that if he wins by some miracle she won’t need to look after him? He will have wall to wall carers and doctors so she can crack on with her life whilst he gets wheeled to the White House podium on a parcel trolley like an unmasked Hannibal Lecter and wheeled back to the private wing of the White House after the meds boosted national pep talk.
    Could the Dems offer her a sweetener, Dowager First Lady kinda position?

    Someone helpfully referred to Edith Wilson yesterday. She was basically acting president after Woodrow had a serious stroke. Scope for another Macbeth themed header here.
    Maybe a donor builds a special medical wing at their home and pays for the best care for Joe and they offer her Ambassador to France - I think she would go for that.

    They can tell Joe he’s been made Ambassador to Ireland and the medical wing is the embassy. Just employ a load of staff from Boston and he won’t know the difference.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,364

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    No matter how much is given to the poor there are always demands to give them more.

    For some reason the poor have become sanctified as if they were cows in India.

    A significant proportion of the populace go through every year of their lives being a net recipient of government spending.

    I remember hearing that is what all because of the lack of jobs and opportunities.

    Well in the last few years the jobs and opportunities have been available, so available that millions want to come from the third world to take them.
    The biggest problem is that people are rational.

    If a poor person part time currently and is working and faces a marginal tax of close to 100%, what rational reason do they have to do that work?

    If their bills will go up if they do that work, so they're now out of pocket, what rational reason do they have to do that work?

    We don't tax people who earn £130k at a marginal tax rate of about 100% so why do we tax people on £13k at that rate?

    Fix that, let people keep more of their own income if they work more hours, and they will do so. And we'll spend less as a result.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,364
    edited July 2

    Pulpstar said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    FPT.

    On the subject of student loans adding 9% to tax, I looked up my first year of paying PAYE in 1988. 25% basic rate and personal allowance of £2605, so probably paying a higher percentage of income tax than a fresh graduate now with a student loan.

    It’s another good example of what we have discussed over the last few weeks. Although the overall tax rate is high lower earners have done much, much better and are paying less. Osborne’s broadest shoulders are bearing ever more of the weight.

    So far as I can see the government gets almost no credit for this whatsoever. Indeed left wingers are convinced that the poor have been persecuted at the expense of the rich and the greedy Tories meme remains strong.

    The proportion of those paying in has fallen with the result that we now have a massive structural deficit. Labour are not walking into anything like what they did in 1997.
    In 1988 VAT was charged at 15 per cent, and not at all on Greggs pasties.
    I remember the shock when Howe increased it to 15%. As always in taxation the unthinkable becomes the new normal all too quickly.
    After Mrs Thatcher had denied plans to double VAT. Technically, she was correct, as it rose from 8 to 15 per cent.

    Her greatest trick was persuading the body politic that only income tax counts.
    To be fair, 8% was a nuisance to retailers in the days before calculators were freely available. 10% was much easier!
    I remember 17.5%
    Seven Fooooorty sevenths :D
    Actually that wasn’t as bad as 8; 10%, plus half, plus half again!
    Is that easier than 1%, double it, double it and double it again?

    Calculating two halfs is two calculations, then two additions is two more. Three doublings seems simpler to me.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.

    It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority

    Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
    I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count

    I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
    No I get it - we don't want Farage.

    That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.

    How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
    I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
    Or Labour.

    I'm voting Labour for only the second time ever. Literally because they're promising planning reform and principles over party.

    If Tories want centre right voters back, they need to appeal to them.

    Simply being a high tax, high spend, nasty about people who want spending, nasty about foreigners but not nasty enough to stop migration party is appealing to about nobody.
    Fair enough. Good for you. And well argued. One of the most bizarre developments was @Big_G_NorthWales voting Tory despite wanting the Tories out. That one I still haven’t get my head around.
    It's the other way around. He was always going to vote Tory, just as last time, but spending the majority of time between elections maintaining that he isn't enables him to dodge any responsibility for what he has voted for.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,614
    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.

    A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.

    I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.

    There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.

    It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority

    Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
    I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count

    I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
    No I get it - we don't want Farage.

    That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.

    How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
    I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
    I want to address this directly

    I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes

    Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,034
    How well would a Whitmer/Ossoff ticket poll against Trump?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    Leon said:

    The Biden orange face thing is truly weird

    Ok I get he had a deathly pallor at the debate which wasn’t great. But one of the most absurd things about Trump is the orange spray fake tan - why the F would you copy that, making you look as weird as Trump but much less coherent?

    I wonder if there are people in the Biden circle who know he’s not fit; and they’re in despair; and they’re quietly sabotaging him in the hope he quits

    That depends how close they are to the inner circle.

    Having Senile Joe incapable but still in office makes Nurse Jill and Beloved Son Hunter very powerful.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This, apparently, is Joe Biden on a “good day”


    “NEW: President Biden reads “end of quote” while rocking his fresh new Trump-inspired orange spray tan.

    “Justice Sotomayor's dissent today. She hears what she said. She said, in every use of official power, the president is now a king above the law with fear for our democracy. I dissent.”

    “End of quote.”

    Sharp as a tack.”

    https://x.com/collinrugg/status/1807937556207788311?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    We need to be careful about this sort of thing. He is seriously senile and needs to go now BUT ALSO it's easy to misrepresent this sort of thing. Spoken word transcripts are always incoherent compared to written prose. Additionally that one is wrong. She, here's what she said. Not She hears what she said.

    Similar thing with meetings. If you look at the entire footage of say a G7 drinks, it's always possible to find your target looking lost and friendless because people are always at some stage in transit between conversations
    You’re being generous to him but that’s kind

    Also he’s still mumbling and now he’s gone orange like Trump??

    Imagine an American from the 50s or 80s seeing this presidential election
    I'm not, I think he's a selfish bedblocker. My point is purely that I don't want the case against him weakened by overstatement.
    It’s quite hard to overstate the profundity of his disability. I saw a tv interview last night - CNN - which said intel had noticed 20-30 occasions in the last year when he seemed to completely freeze. Not just mumble or forget things - “turn into a zombie” - and it’s getting worse, fast

    It’s tragic and cruel and ridiculous
    I haven’t seen it but there is nothing unusual in public speaking in making it clear when your quote has finished and that it’s back to you.

    Generally I thought it was a powerful speech about a truly terrible decision that does indeed threaten the rule of law in America.
    His face was all orange
    As I have said I haven’t seen it and I don’t disagree that he is way too old for this. But I struggle to see how the Democrats replace him at this stage.
    Ousting him is probably impossible. If he can be pressured into going voluntarily on unspecified medical grounds that's a foreseeable state of affairs because presidents do get ill and assassinated and so on, and there are ways of dealing with it. They need more men in grey suits
    Part of the problem is of course that the American system has no men in grey suits. There is no Graham Brady counting (some say badly) incoming letters of discontent.
    There are fundraisers and PAC administrators though, many of whom will have been taking frantic calls from large donors in the past few days. If Soros pulls the plug on donations, he’ll be out tomorrow. They need to raise at least a billion dollars, if not two, between now and the election.
    He's got like $80 million or something in the bank. He doesn't need to spend most of it until after the convention which is *really* getting too late to make a switch. The donors' main concern is beating Trump, so even they were unanimous, they'd still lose the resulting game of chicken. And in reality the donors won't be unanimous, there are lots of different opinions about whether they'd be best served by Biden, Kamala Harris or the procedurally mysterious third thing.

    I expect Biden would pack it in if that was the clear advice of the people in the party he trusts, but if he didn't then the only way to force him out would be the 25th Amendment.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Heathener said:

    Eabhal said:

    Heathener said:

    Tres said:

    viewcode said:

    Chris said:

    I believe the polls in this election have not been correct. We will find out on Friday.

    The unusual choices the voters are making must be making life hard for them.

    Would account for the lack of herding.

    We will know either way when Sunderland South comes in
    Sunderland South is hardly representative of all the other seats.

    I'd say we won't really know until we start seeing a few LD target seats too: Harrogate & Knaresborough at c. 01:45, maybe not until Cheltenham and Eastleigh around 03:00.
    Do people not think the exit poll will give at least a rough idea of which category the result is in?
    Well quite. MrEd/MisterBedfordshire is weirdo Trumpian trollcaster who knows very little about psephology. Hence his now legendary ‘tip’ for Trump to carry VA in Potus 2020, which Trump lost by 11 points.
    I'm not Mr Ed. I stopped posting in 2016 until recently

    I also don't go round insulting other posters.

    Insulting other posters including me because you disagree with their posts says more about you than you intended to reveal.
    Happy to take you word for it but your posts are uncannily similar to his and then there's the MrEd/MisterBedfordshire name similarity.

    Still remember enjoying a good few beers with Mr Ed at the last PB gathering, shame he got himself banned.
    IIUC, @MrEd is not the same as @MrBedfordshire . @MrBedfordshire claims to be the same person as @Paul_Bedfordshire , who stopped posting in 2016. I assume the mods can confirm/deny
    @misterbedfordshire.

    @mrbedfordshire didn't work and has zilch posts because google (gmail) blocked @rcs1000 email message in response to registration to verify the email address because it came from Vanilla not @rcs1000 so googles spoofing klaxons went off (@paul.... had similar problems after the interregnum since 2016)

    So @misterbedfordshire came into existence via a non gmail email which didn't block the please verify email address message.

    If you are registered here with a gmail address and you need vanilla to send a message to it for any reason (like you forgot your password) you is stuffed.


    Ain't life grand.
    also Mr Ed would never willingly get on a bus. I'm buying it.
    The view that "Buses are for poor people" boils my pee
    A lovely surprise this morning to find myself in agreement with you on something.

    I take buses loads. They’re a great way to see the world, both outside and inside the windows.
    Top deck on a rural double decker bus is fantastic. Especially at this time of year
    Buses are the simplest and cheapest way to take some heat out of the housing market. Make city centres more accessible from the towns, villages and suburbs so you don't have to scrap it out for a walking-distance flat.
    The big game changer, especially for rural and lesser used suburban routes where buses run less frequently, sometimes only every 2-3 hours, is the satellite tracker.

    Now you can sit at home or wherever and track the bus on a map in comfort, going to the stop when it is a few minutes away.

    The days of waiting ages in the wind and rain for buses that don't turn up are OVER. But sadly too few people know about this.

    If you have not got this website saved on your phone, do it and get it.

    https://bustimes.org/
    c.c. @Eabhal @Carnyx
    ;)


    That*s all very well, but is it the fifth day including today, or the fifth day starting from tomorrow?

    (With apologies to Bart)
    🤣One month to go until the election. You have to count the WHOLE month.
    I never said that.

    This is the month of the election, yes, just as at this time on Thursday will be the day of the election and the election won't be over yet.
    I know, I was only pulling your leg.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    How well would a Whitmer/Ossoff ticket poll against Trump?

    The sad thing is that Ossoff wouldn't be debating Trump under those circs.

    Can you imagine the spanking the orange haired one would get if the great Ossoff went up against him?
This discussion has been closed.