Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Just a few days now, and you can get back to telling us why you won't be voting Conservative the next time!
You really are rather sad and as a Lib Dem not really a great recruiting sergeant for your cause
Indeed BIg G. Rather proving that old adage that there’s nowt so illiberal as a Liberal. @IanB2 contributed to my decision not to vote LibDem in Newton Abbot. His repeated ‘mistruths’ about it annoyed me one too many times.
I am so glad you and your wife went up the Snowdon railway, although not so good about the weather conditions near the summit, nor the clothing some were wearing.
That's a big sense of humour fail, there
No-one should expect to post on an internet discussion forum free of criticism or comeback. And most especially after a repeat offence.
Let's see what the final models suggest for Newton Abbot; the stuff posted earlier was all legitimate; what turns out to be accurate, no-one yet knows.
My prediction: Tory hold over the Lib Dems. One vote in it.
Quite funny that Rishi Sunak's response to Starmer was that he had never finished work before 6pm.
Maybe true if you count birthday parties in the afternoon as work, I suppose.
I think Starmer's only hope to disrupt the swingback narrative in these last couple of days is probably to come out with an aggressive takedown of Sunak - linked perhaps to partygate, D-Day and various other issues - that gets on to the news headlines. He can't let this story fester and give the government a free pass.
I imagine most voters, if they hear about it, will be bemused by the idea that it's a story at all.
I would for preference vote for a PM who is good at spotting to whom to delegate, never works in the evenings if he can help it, has loads of time to talk to the children, reads hard books not about politics, goes racing at obscure weekday meetings, sets aside proper time for the Ashes series etc, and, like Disraeli, reads Pride and Prejudice at least once a year.
So would I, but remember the people this needs to “convince” are the died in the wool Tories who were contemplating sitting it out or voting Reform on Thursday but really keen to find a last minute excuse to vote Conservative. Same with a supermajority nonsense.
I have heard no one talking about this outside of comments here on PB.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Just a few days now, and you can get back to telling us why you won't be voting Conservative the next time!
You really are rather sad and as a Lib Dem not really a great recruiting sergeant for your cause
Indeed BIg G. Rather proving that old adage that there’s nowt so illiberal as a Liberal. @IanB2 contributed to my decision not to vote LibDem in Newton Abbot. His repeated ‘mistruths’ about it annoyed me one too many times.
I am so glad you and your wife went up the Snowdon railway, although not so good about the weather conditions near the summit, nor the clothing some were wearing.
That's a big sense of humour fail, there
No-one should expect to post on an internet discussion forum free of criticism or comeback.
Let's see what the final models suggest for Newton Abbot; the stuff posted earlier was all legitimate; what turns out to be accurate, no-one yet knows.
Ya but my point isn’t whether or not the LibDems will come 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in Newton Abbot - you can make a case for all four outcomes. It’s that you repeatedly told mistruths about a) evidence and b) polling
So, no, that’s not funny. This is democracy and sometimes the LibDems really don’t help themselves with their truth-bending.
Isn’t the swing back narrative exactly what Labour needs to get the vote out?
Yep its a load of contrived bollocks. More bullshit from the party that is even more lightweight and disingenuous than the other lot. Things can only get worse.
The cut through of this Starmer Friday evening family time story shows to me he has been spot on to run this Ming Vase campaign all along. Anyone complaining that he/Labour have been too ‘safe’ needs only look at how his quotes were blown out of all serious proportion.
What a ridiculous country and ridiculous media environment we have where this is something that actually resonates with some people.
I mean, are people genuinely thick enough to believe that if something serious happened at 6:10pm on a Friday, like a terrorist attack or a war or something, Starmer would turn around and say “Sod off, me and my kids are playing Scrabble” ?
This is a guy who has literally been a lawyer for a lot of his life, at a very high level. I’m sure he’s worked far more 2ams than Boris Johnson, Liz Truss et al.
It gives off a subliminal vibe of 'nation first, but only during office hours' Or, Police Squad wise 'not one man on this force will rest for one moment until we find the killer' 'right, let's get a spot of lunch'
Also the country doesn’t want to see its politicians having a nice time, they want them to suffer and toil and feel the strain of the office and their own miseries.
Can you imagine Starmer going on GMTV (is that a programme?) and saying “well Dermot, I feel nice and refreshed as when I finished at 6 on Friday I went off to Chequers with the fam and just relaxed for the weekend. We had a lovely bbq in the grounds there as we always do on a Friday evening, looked at a few documents on Saturday morning and then we had a family padel tournament. Now it’s back to work to increase your taxes.”
A key part of Harold Wilson's appeal was he always seemed to be suffering alongside you.
What I can't understand is why the Democrats seem so convinced that any candidate other than Joe Biden would lose to Donald Trump, and therefore have to stick with Biden.
The polling evidence I and others posted earlier, not one Dem candidate polls any better than Biden v Trump even post debate.
Far more important for the election in November is whether Trump is jailed or not next week and the post convention bounces for each candidate.
Isn’t the swing back narrative exactly what Labour needs to get the vote out?
Yes.
I don't think most mainstream observers understand quite how dominant Starmer is. He's shaping the narrative to his advantage. It's been this way since Truss. It's not even as if there's people behind the scenes pulling the strings. There doesn't need to be.
He's generating his own tailwind.
This is what happens when the governing party vacates the centre ground of British politics.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Just a few days now, and you can get back to telling us why you won't be voting Conservative the next time!
You really are rather sad and as a Lib Dem not really a great recruiting sergeant for your cause
Indeed BIg G. Rather proving that old adage that there’s nowt so illiberal as a Liberal. @IanB2 contributed to my decision not to vote LibDem in Newton Abbot. His repeated ‘mistruths’ about it annoyed me one too many times.
I am so glad you and your wife went up the Snowdon railway, although not so good about the weather conditions near the summit, nor the clothing some were wearing.
That's a big sense of humour fail, there
No-one should expect to post on an internet discussion forum free of criticism or comeback.
Let's see what the final models suggest for Newton Abbot; the stuff posted earlier was all legitimate; what turns out to be accurate, no-one yet knows.
Ya but my point isn’t whether or not the LibDems will come 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in Newton Abbot - you can make a case for all four outcomes. It’s that you repeatedly told mistruths about a) evidence and b) polling
So, no, that’s not funny. This is democracy and sometimes the LibDems really don’t help themselves with their truth-bending.
No, I rather suspect it was you failing to read stuff properly. You have a habit of skimming and then jumping in too quick, which will be why just recently you asked for a link when the link was already in the thread and accused me of suggesting a forecast was an MRP when I had actually said, correctly, that it was a model. Attention to detail isn't everyone's strong point but if you can't do it, don't go accusing others of mistakes.
Snippet from the Independent. Not sure how reliable put thought I'd share.
"Lord Hayward’s analysis is supported by feedback from Conservatives in the so-called red wall areas in the North and Midlands.
In the North East, Tees Valley mayor Ben Houchen, who held on in May despite what the polls suggested, told The Independent: “It’s pretty positive. I’m hopeful if our data is right.”
A number of Tory MPs in the North West, Midlands and Yorkshire believe they can hold on, including in one constituency where the bookmakers are quoting 10/1 on a Conservative victory. The polls would suggest they have no chance.
Bassetlaw MP Brendan Clarke-Smith, who thinks his seat is too close to call, has suggested that Reform UK are picking up more Labour voters in his area.
However, the Conservatives are far more gloomy about the south of England – the so-called blue wall of traditionally safe Tory seats – where they expect to suffer significant losses, including potentially a number of cabinet ministers, headed by chancellor Jeremy Hunt in Surrey.
However, it is understood that Labour is “nervous” about the result, with so many undecided voters."
I have been saying 1992 for years. I will apologise on Friday if I am wrong but I demand an apology myself if Rishi remains Prime Minister!
I don't see this being 1992. But I do think it possible we could end up with a far smaller Labour majority than has been predicted te last few weeks. Sadly it also means the Tory party will fail to slide down the plughole.
Sadly only in the sense you want Farage to be Leader of the Opposition which most on here don't
No, as I have made absolutely clear on many occasions, I don't want Farage anywhere near the Tory party, or power. I just don't want the Tory party to survive. It will send a powerful message to the other parties and politicians generally if the oldest party in British politics ends up in the sewer.
A new centre right party/grouping would obviously emerge and hopefully would realise that taking the electorate for granted for 200 years or more is no longer acceptable.
The reality is that the Tory Party has been many different complexions over the years, so for once your usual sensible analysis doesn't stack up. If the Tory Party completely dies we will be a soft socialist state. Many people may like that. As someone who believes in enterprise and the ability of people to set up businesses and able to keep most of the money they generate without governments stealing it to splurge on featherbedding unions and the public sector I personally think that will be bad.
I did say in my follow up reply to HYUFD that I fully expected a new centre right party to emerge. I just don't see how it can come about whilst the Tory party is still in existence. I think it is broken beyond repair and simply has too much baggage.
There is no certainty that would happen though. The Conservative Party, when it was effective, was always a broad church, and this would be very difficult to recreate. It could take a century, which is what all socialists hope for. That way perhaps Jeremy Corbyn, or his heirs might one day be "a great Prime Minister". This is what we have to look forward to if the Conservatives are destroyed.
Or PM Farage.
Centre right Les Republicains are near destroyed in France and the French now effectively have a choice between a Faragite (but with far right history) Party and a Corbynite Party which won the most and second most seats in their parliament last Sunday
A few days ago someone posted the YouGov showing that the Tories / Sunak were still polling decently compared with the 2019 level with Indian voters.
Has got me wondering whether those seats with large affluent Indian populations - also where parents might send kids to private school more than in other parts of the country - might be value for betting on the Tories.
The private school itself is often in a different constituency to where the parents live so will need to take that into account but I’m sure someone in the know might help with the above?
More generally if there are any areas where it’s got a good proportion of BAME parents sending their kids to private school in the constituency, that might be more of a factor than is measured by polling.
Harrow East is the value bet. If Savanta is right, the Conservatives will hold it.
Which Savanta is this? The Savanta MRP I'm looking at has Lab winning it by 49.6% to 33.2%.
This imbecile literally endorsed a convicted felon.
Speaker Mike Johnson on Fox News: "The president and VP are the only two offices in our constitutional system that are elected by all the people. No one who is elected to that office is going to be prone to this kind of crazy criminal activity." https://x.com/atrupar/status/1807930573207302602
He is not an imbecile. He is an a*se-kisser who hopes for largesse from King Donald I after his coronation.
What I am wondering is this: since all official Presidential acts are above the law now, what is stopping King Biden I from tossing the Justices and Trump into a dungeon without trial?
Apparently, the legality cannot be an issue...
He's an imbecile.
What's stopping Biden ? He thinks it would be wrong.
A constitutional ruling enabling criminals applies to all, but is really only to the benefit of those who want to commit crimes.
Biden is an 81 year old who says he has the best interests of American democracy at heart. He has been handed unlimited power which is likely to get into the hands of some demagogue in the future.
He could take one for the team and take steps to clean up the criminal cesspits swirling around Donald Trump.
What's Biden worried about? Effects on his future career?
Quite funny that Rishi Sunak's response to Starmer was that he had never finished work before 6pm.
Maybe true if you count birthday parties in the afternoon as work, I suppose.
I think Starmer's only hope to disrupt the swingback narrative in these last couple of days is probably to come out with an aggressive takedown of Sunak - linked perhaps to partygate, D-Day and various other issues - that gets on to the news headlines. He can't let this story fester and give the government a free pass.
There's maybe 12 hours left to shape anything. Tomorrow is too late and Thurs 7am reporting closes down. So for anything to ' take' now you've got to get it out, noticed, reported and shared probably by the early evening news
I had a look at the politics pages of the Telegraph, Express, Mail and GB News, and couldn't even find the Starmer 6pm story.
I'd have thought, if it really was cutting through as a negative issue, that it would be pretty visible on a couple of those sites.
It's bloody bizarre when only a week or so back, Sunak complimented Starmer on managing his work/life balance.
And bizarre that the Conservative minister for mental health has now waded in, criticising Starmer for not working a 20 hour day like she does. You can’t make it up.
These tories really do deserve to be booted into the long grass for a long long time
Fortunately for the mental health of the minister for MH, she is set to have a nice long break from work.
Starting on Friday, elegantly enough.
(But yeah. The long hours fetish is presumably part of Rishi's psyche and also one of the reasons the country is in a bad way.)
Quite funny that Rishi Sunak's response to Starmer was that he had never finished work before 6pm.
Maybe true if you count birthday parties in the afternoon as work, I suppose.
I think Starmer's only hope to disrupt the swingback narrative in these last couple of days is probably to come out with an aggressive takedown of Sunak - linked perhaps to partygate, D-Day and various other issues - that gets on to the news headlines. He can't let this story fester and give the government a free pass.
I imagine most voters, if they hear about it, will be bemused by the idea that it's a story at all.
I would for preference vote for a PM who is good at spotting to whom to delegate, never works in the evenings if he can help it, has loads of time to talk to the children, reads hard books not about politics, goes racing at obscure weekday meetings, sets aside proper time for the Ashes series etc, and, like Disraeli, reads Pride and Prejudice at least once a year.
Well you look certain to get (once again) a PM that you can't believe a word he says and loves getting lots freebies that he doesn't pay tax on. A hypocrite and a liar that doesn't have the perceived charisma of Boris Johnson, but is otherwise not much better.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Just a few days now, and you can get back to telling us why you won't be voting Conservative the next time!
You really are rather sad and as a Lib Dem not really a great recruiting sergeant for your cause
Indeed BIg G. Rather proving that old adage that there’s nowt so illiberal as a Liberal. @IanB2 contributed to my decision not to vote LibDem in Newton Abbot. His repeated ‘mistruths’ about it annoyed me one too many times.
I am so glad you and your wife went up the Snowdon railway, although not so good about the weather conditions near the summit, nor the clothing some were wearing.
That's a big sense of humour fail, there
No-one should expect to post on an internet discussion forum free of criticism or comeback.
Let's see what the final models suggest for Newton Abbot; the stuff posted earlier was all legitimate; what turns out to be accurate, no-one yet knows.
Ya but my point isn’t whether or not the LibDems will come 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in Newton Abbot - you can make a case for all four outcomes. It’s that you repeatedly told mistruths about a) evidence and b) polling
So, no, that’s not funny. This is democracy and sometimes the LibDems really don’t help themselves with their truth-bending.
Oh come on. There are rampers of all parties on here. Learning who is who, and treating their posts accordingly, is PB 101.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Just a few days now, and you can get back to telling us why you won't be voting Conservative the next time!
You really are rather sad and as a Lib Dem not really a great recruiting sergeant for your cause
Indeed BIg G. Rather proving that old adage that there’s nowt so illiberal as a Liberal. @IanB2 contributed to my decision not to vote LibDem in Newton Abbot. His repeated ‘mistruths’ about it annoyed me one too many times.
I am so glad you and your wife went up the Snowdon railway, although not so good about the weather conditions near the summit, nor the clothing some were wearing.
That's a big sense of humour fail, there
No-one should expect to post on an internet discussion forum free of criticism or comeback.
Let's see what the final models suggest for Newton Abbot; the stuff posted earlier was all legitimate; what turns out to be accurate, no-one yet knows.
Ya but my point isn’t whether or not the LibDems will come 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in Newton Abbot - you can make a case for all four outcomes. It’s that you repeatedly told mistruths about a) evidence and b) polling
So, no, that’s not funny. This is democracy and sometimes the LibDems really don’t help themselves with their truth-bending.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Just a few days now, and you can get back to telling us why you won't be voting Conservative the next time!
You really are rather sad and as a Lib Dem not really a great recruiting sergeant for your cause
Indeed BIg G. Rather proving that old adage that there’s nowt so illiberal as a Liberal. @IanB2 contributed to my decision not to vote LibDem in Newton Abbot. His repeated ‘mistruths’ about it annoyed me one too many times.
I am so glad you and your wife went up the Snowdon railway, although not so good about the weather conditions near the summit, nor the clothing some were wearing.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Just a few days now, and you can get back to telling us why you won't be voting Conservative the next time!
You really are rather sad and as a Lib Dem not really a great recruiting sergeant for your cause
Indeed BIg G. Rather proving that old adage that there’s nowt so illiberal as a Liberal. @IanB2 contributed to my decision not to vote LibDem in Newton Abbot. His repeated ‘mistruths’ about it annoyed me one too many times.
I am so glad you and your wife went up the Snowdon railway, although not so good about the weather conditions near the summit, nor the clothing some were wearing.
Some-one who claims not to be voting for a party because of comments by a random person on the internet was never going to vote for that party anyway.
Quite funny that Rishi Sunak's response to Starmer was that he had never finished work before 6pm.
Maybe true if you count birthday parties in the afternoon as work, I suppose.
I think Starmer's only hope to disrupt the swingback narrative in these last couple of days is probably to come out with an aggressive takedown of Sunak - linked perhaps to partygate, D-Day and various other issues - that gets on to the news headlines. He can't let this story fester and give the government a free pass.
I imagine most voters, if they hear about it, will be bemused by the idea that it's a story at all.
I would for preference vote for a PM who is good at spotting to whom to delegate, never works in the evenings if he can help it, has loads of time to talk to the children, reads hard books not about politics, goes racing at obscure weekday meetings, sets aside proper time for the Ashes series etc, and, like Disraeli, reads Pride and Prejudice at least once a year.
I must say that my first thought on reading Sunak's "I've never stopped work before 6" was "If only you had ..."
Before I remembered the partying in the afternoon, that is.
Cool story. Please could you post some links to Rishi’s partying in the afternoon. I don’t mean the time he walked into a meeting and they had set up a birthday cake for Boris and he had to stand a sing happy birthday but the actual “partying in the afternoon”.
I mean “partying”, because you wouldn't of course dream of being disingenuous (especially being so clever you can win arguments without lies,) and define partying in a way no normal person would. Thanks.
Snippet from the Independent. Not sure how reliable put thought I'd share.
"Lord Hayward’s analysis is supported by feedback from Conservatives in the so-called red wall areas in the North and Midlands.
In the North East, Tees Valley mayor Ben Houchen, who held on in May despite what the polls suggested, told The Independent: “It’s pretty positive. I’m hopeful if our data is right.”
A number of Tory MPs in the North West, Midlands and Yorkshire believe they can hold on, including in one constituency where the bookmakers are quoting 10/1 on a Conservative victory. The polls would suggest they have no chance.
Bassetlaw MP Brendan Clarke-Smith, who thinks his seat is too close to call, has suggested that Reform UK are picking up more Labour voters in his area.
However, the Conservatives are far more gloomy about the south of England – the so-called blue wall of traditionally safe Tory seats – where they expect to suffer significant losses, including potentially a number of cabinet ministers, headed by chancellor Jeremy Hunt in Surrey.
However, it is understood that Labour is “nervous” about the result, with so many undecided voters."
I have been saying 1992 for years. I will apologise on Friday if I am wrong but I demand an apology myself if Rishi remains Prime Minister!
I don't see this being 1992. But I do think it possible we could end up with a far smaller Labour majority than has been predicted te last few weeks. Sadly it also means the Tory party will fail to slide down the plughole.
Sadly only in the sense you want Farage to be Leader of the Opposition which most on here don't
No, as I have made absolutely clear on many occasions, I don't want Farage anywhere near the Tory party, or power. I just don't want the Tory party to survive. It will send a powerful message to the other parties and politicians generally if the oldest party in British politics ends up in the sewer.
A new centre right party/grouping would obviously emerge and hopefully would realise that taking the electorate for granted for 200 years or more is no longer acceptable.
If you don't want the Tory party to survive you end up with Farage ultimately LOTO and Reform taking over the Tories, sorry.
Under FPTP you ain't getting another centre right party other than the Tories, certainly not the current LDs
Rubbish. Unless and until we get PR (which is what he wants) Farage is not going to get anywhere near leading the centre right by dint of the simple fact that he is not centre right. He will not be able to take the large majority of centre voters with him. So another party will emerge without the baggage of incompetence and corruption that has marked the Tories since Major. The Right is now pretty much irrevocably split and much of that is due to the arrogance and ineptitude of the Tory party.
The same 'Rubbish' as your assurance pre EU referendum voting Leave would just see us stay in the single market with free movement because your intellectual libertarian views would always win out over the populist working class masses? Look how well your brilliant prediction turned out there!
Indeed PR is more likely to see a centre right party other than the Tories emerge as it might win a few seats, under FPTP it would just get steamrollered by Farage if the Tories collapsed
Isn’t the swing back narrative exactly what Labour needs to get the vote out?
Yep its a load of contrived bollocks. More bullshit from the party that is even more lightweight and disingenuous than the other lot. Things can only get worse.
I'll pass with respect your video recommendation, thanks all the same. And I know it goes against your nature, but try to stop being such an arsehole to Big G. It just makes us all realise the obvious that he is much better individual by many miles than a complete king cnut like you.
I usually take a good wodge of cash abroad, mainly USD. It was near-useless in Norway but it still comes in very handy in parts of Asia. I enjoy being able to exchange in little booths at good rates without any questions or need to show ID. And it’s great what you can achieve by flashing a greenback.
All part of my anarchistic streak I guess.
I believe the Paignton to Teignmouth bus (£2, top deck) is known for its anarchists. Whereas the crazy golf in Dawlish is where the FARC guerrillas hang out
Oh god. Don’t get me started on Dawlish.
Whenever the train is out I would have to take the Exeter to Teignmouth bus through Dawlish. The number of fights I’ve seen break out on board had to be seen to be believed. Even my socialism has its limits.
It needs a damn great storm to shut it for a couple of months again so they reopen the whole of the proper route via Okehampton.
Bere Alston to Tavistock is allegedly funded to reopen now by HS2 cancellation, leaving, post Okehampton reopening, just a 17 mile gap in the middle that is mostly virtually intact, other than the thorny issue of the Cassandra Crossing (Meldon Viaduct).
All the former stations are now des reses with gardens on what was the track (but allegedly with a right to repurchase in the deeds) and lydford to Okie is a very popular bike and pedestrian route. There's decades of wrangling to be done and as you say meldon viaduct needs a rebuild
Lydford is the exception (it got Flattened). Brentor is bypassable using the GW trackbed.
Fortunately Devon CC owns the trackbed between Meldon and Lydford that is cyclepath (not Sustrans) so it can be converted to single track + cycleway as is already the case between Okehampton and Meldon. You could also have a lengthy double track stretch between Lydford and north of Tavistock by putting the cycles on the Ex GW line (where they would want to stay right through to Tavistock as the ex GW line is a cyclepath from Tavy to Plymouth
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Just a few days now, and you can get back to telling us why you won't be voting Conservative the next time!
You really are rather sad and as a Lib Dem not really a great recruiting sergeant for your cause
Indeed BIg G. Rather proving that old adage that there’s nowt so illiberal as a Liberal. @IanB2 contributed to my decision not to vote LibDem in Newton Abbot. His repeated ‘mistruths’ about it annoyed me one too many times.
I am so glad you and your wife went up the Snowdon railway, although not so good about the weather conditions near the summit, nor the clothing some were wearing.
That's a big sense of humour fail, there
No-one should expect to post on an internet discussion forum free of criticism or comeback. And most especially after a repeat offence.
Let's see what the final models suggest for Newton Abbot; the stuff posted earlier was all legitimate; what turns out to be accurate, no-one yet knows.
Repeat offence - you make it sound like a crime
You need to get a life and again, you are not an advert for the Lib Dems
Quite funny that Rishi Sunak's response to Starmer was that he had never finished work before 6pm.
Maybe true if you count birthday parties in the afternoon as work, I suppose.
I think Starmer's only hope to disrupt the swingback narrative in these last couple of days is probably to come out with an aggressive takedown of Sunak - linked perhaps to partygate, D-Day and various other issues - that gets on to the news headlines. He can't let this story fester and give the government a free pass.
I imagine most voters, if they hear about it, will be bemused by the idea that it's a story at all.
I would for preference vote for a PM who is good at spotting to whom to delegate, never works in the evenings if he can help it, has loads of time to talk to the children, reads hard books not about politics, goes racing at obscure weekday meetings, sets aside proper time for the Ashes series etc, and, like Disraeli, reads Pride and Prejudice at least once a year.
I must say that my first thought on reading Sunak's "I've never stopped work before 6" was "If only you had ..."
Before I remembered the partying in the afternoon, that is.
Cool story. Please could you post some links to Rishi’s partying in the afternoon. I don’t mean the time he walked into a meeting and they had set up a birthday cake for Boris and he had to stand a sing happy birthday but the actual “partying in the afternoon”.
I mean “partying”, because you wouldn't of course dream of being disingenuous (especially being so clever you can win arguments without lies,) and define partying in a way no normal person would. Thanks.
Tbf that sounds like a pretty gonzo afternoon in Rishi world.
Nick Ferrari believes Starmer's Friday Night Dinner comment is a game changer.
Maria Caulfield works 20 hours a day, every day.
The postal vote fiasco continues can we postpone the election at the eleventh hour? This really is unfair that 300,000 lose their franchise. Rishi needs to get a grip and sort this out.
What the heck is the Friday Night Dinner comment and why does it matter?
Only reason I know what Friday Night Dinner is, is its on the rotation of images on Netflix when its on screensaver mode.
Never been interested in it, never seen it.
Starmer says he will continue to spend Friday evening meals with his family. A Jewish tradition. Maria Caulfield, Shapps and Rishi are suggesting Starmer is a lazy part timer.
And I'd say good on him. PM needs to be a human being with his family.
Yes, clocking off at 6 on Friday doesn't seem unreasonable. Can't say I'm often still at my desk at that time.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Just a few days now, and you can get back to telling us why you won't be voting Conservative the next time!
You really are rather sad and as a Lib Dem not really a great recruiting sergeant for your cause
Indeed BIg G. Rather proving that old adage that there’s nowt so illiberal as a Liberal. @IanB2 contributed to my decision not to vote LibDem in Newton Abbot. His repeated ‘mistruths’ about it annoyed me one too many times.
I am so glad you and your wife went up the Snowdon railway, although not so good about the weather conditions near the summit, nor the clothing some were wearing.
That's a big sense of humour fail, there
No-one should expect to post on an internet discussion forum free of criticism or comeback.
Let's see what the final models suggest for Newton Abbot; the stuff posted earlier was all legitimate; what turns out to be accurate, no-one yet knows.
Ya but my point isn’t whether or not the LibDems will come 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in Newton Abbot - you can make a case for all four outcomes. It’s that you repeatedly told mistruths about a) evidence and b) polling
So, no, that’s not funny. This is democracy and sometimes the LibDems really don’t help themselves with their truth-bending.
PedanticBetting .com .....
IanB2 is NOT the whole of the LidDems
The LibDems are not responsible for his utterings
PB Rant Mode = Off;
I'm not even any of the LibDems, not being a member, having a big Green Party poster in my window, and not having voted LibDem in a GE since 2015.
"Tory vote collapsed, they betrayed what England voted for, if Reform didn’t exist I wouldn’t vote, Tories ignored and rode roughshod over 2019 vote, now we must focus on real opposition party."
I can't follow this logic (which is perhaps why I can't vote for Brexit, or BoZo or RefUK)
In 2019 BoZo promised Brexit
In 2024 the people who voted for that will now vote overwhelmingly to prevent the people who promised it from governing for the next 5 years
The voters got what they were promised. And it's shit.
And these people are saying they want more of it...
I do think Starmers comments were a bit of an error (set your own boundaries, no need to tell anyone else about them) but I do think Sunak is probably making too much of them.
Many people in this country will sympathise with Starmer’s position because the always-on work culture that is prevalent in this country and has been growing steadily worse since Covid/remote working is not conducive to a balanced and healthy existence, and many people will themselves be readily aware and be trying to set down their own boundaries on that front. Yes people are well aware that being PM is a 24/7 job, but at the same time I don’t think Sunak shouting “you should be working not having time off!” is a great look.
The cut through of this Starmer Friday evening family time story shows to me he has been spot on to run this Ming Vase campaign all along. Anyone complaining that he/Labour have been too ‘safe’ needs only look at how his quotes were blown out of all serious proportion.
What a ridiculous country and ridiculous media environment we have where this is something that actually resonates with some people.
I mean, are people genuinely thick enough to believe that if something serious happened at 6:10pm on a Friday, like a terrorist attack or a war or something, Starmer would turn around and say “Sod off, me and my kids are playing Scrabble” ?
This is a guy who has literally been a lawyer for a lot of his life, at a very high level. I’m sure he’s worked far more 2ams than Boris Johnson, Liz Truss et al.
It gives off a subliminal vibe of 'nation first, but only during office hours' Or, Police Squad wise 'not one man on this force will rest for one moment until we find the killer' 'right, let's get a spot of lunch'
He is prime minister. He should be taking executive decisions based on the work his cabinet do and the steer he gives them , not micromanaging them all.
If his statement means he plans to return to proper cabinet government then hurrah for him.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Already do, but I hope you don't think that also means I'll stop pointing out hypocrisy
Oh, I guess you won't be voting Starmer then?
Correct, I won't be
And yet you seem so keen for him to be PM. Hypocrite.
Do I? I'm keen for the Conservatives to be out of power, and I'm realistic enough to know that Labour are the only likely winner. If pushed, I would prefer a Lib Dem led government over a Labour one, but a Labour one will do.
Nigel, if you're going to call people hypocrites at least try to get a handle on their actual view instead of just making any old shit up, there's a good lad.
Hypocrite. There you go, and sorry I really couldn't give a flying fuck about your sad "actual view", as it appears that your "actual view" is really pretty unpleasant..
I have voted LD for the last two elections, though I am pleased that I will not be voting alongside a party that has such unpleasant emotionally unintelligent gits amongst it's following such as yourself. There is also the slight problem with the LDs having a fat buffoon as leader; Boris-Johnson-lite.
Nick Ferrari believes Starmer's Friday Night Dinner comment is a game changer.
Maria Caulfield works 20 hours a day, every day.
The postal vote fiasco continues can we postpone the election at the eleventh hour? This really is unfair that 300,000 lose their franchise. Rishi needs to get a grip and sort this out.
What the heck is the Friday Night Dinner comment and why does it matter?
Only reason I know what Friday Night Dinner is, is its on the rotation of images on Netflix when its on screensaver mode.
Never been interested in it, never seen it.
Starmer says he will continue to spend Friday evening meals with his family. A Jewish tradition. Maria Caulfield, Shapps and Rishi are suggesting Starmer is a lazy part timer.
And I'd say good on him. PM needs to be a human being with his family.
Yes, clocking off at 6 on Friday doesn't seem unreasonable. Can't say I'm often still at my desk at that time.
"Tory vote collapsed, they betrayed what England voted for, if Reform didn’t exist I wouldn’t vote, Tories ignored and rode roughshod over 2019 vote, now we must focus on real opposition party."
I can't follow this logic (which is perhaps why I can't vote for Brexit, or BoZo or RefUK)
In 2019 BoZo promised Brexit
In 2024 the people who voted for that will now vote overwhelmingly to prevent the people who promised it from governing for the next 5 years
The voters got what they were promised. And it's shit.
And these people are saying they want more of it...
I don't think it's controversial to suggest a lot of those who voted for Brexit did so in the hope it would enable Britain to better control its own borders and reduce immigration.
Which it did - for about 5 minutes. During which time - possibly coincidentally, but who knows - the party which delivered it grew in popularity.
But then the party in power allowed immigration to grow, massively, and became unpopular with those voters who had switched to it in the hope of delivering lower immigration. Many of these voters then decided to vote for a party which promised to lower immigration.
You don't have to agree with the desire to lower immigration. But you can see why those who do moved towards, then away from the Conservative Party.
A friend has just pointed out that Starmer might take Friday evenings off for religious reasons. If so, this might be The Mole's finest work.
(I don't think this has been pointed out on PB so far, but widely noted on twitter)
Au contraire here is moi à 1118:
Dave had his dvd nights, BJ was a poster boy for laziness.
It's the Jewish angle that I find interesting. On the one hand it wrong foots the critics for not knowing and respecting Jewish practices (I knew when the Sabbath starts because I used to instruct an orthodox barrister and if you wanted advice on a Friday in winter you made sure to ring early). OTOH I am not sure if I knew lady s was Jewish. That fact coming to prominence could do labour harm in Muslim heavy constituencies.
Keiran Pedley @keiranpedley · 2h Not a prediction but don’t think we should be surprised if there is a bit of late movement this election. We’ve always known there are a good chunk of wavering 2019 Cons & people that may change their mind more generally.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Already do, but I hope you don't think that also means I'll stop pointing out hypocrisy
Oh, I guess you won't be voting Starmer then?
Correct, I won't be
And yet you seem so keen for him to be PM. Hypocrite.
Do I? I'm keen for the Conservatives to be out of power, and I'm realistic enough to know that Labour are the only likely winner. If pushed, I would prefer a Lib Dem led government over a Labour one, but a Labour one will do.
Nigel, if you're going to call people hypocrites at least try to get a handle on their actual view instead of just making any old shit up, there's a good lad.
Hypocrite. There you go, and sorry I really couldn't give a flying fuck about your sad "actual view", as it appears that your "actual view" is really pretty unpleasant..
I have voted LD for the last two elections, though I am pleased that I will not be voting alongside a party that has such unpleasant emotionally unintelligent gits amongst it's following such as yourself. There is also the slight problem with the LDs having a fat buffoon as leader; Boris-Johnson-lite.
I'm probably* not voting Lib Dem either. You can have yet another go if you like! Eventually you might have enough of a handle on what's actually going on and then you can find some deep set hypocrisy and wound me, wound me with your formidable wit.
Sunak in Banbury and Witney this morning. Conservative majorities of 17000 and 15000 respectively. Losing both would be not quite ELE but not far off.
Hello from the campaign trail in Keith.
For all of the bluster in the media about Starmer outrageously seeing his kids and of the “Starmer will sell you to Putin” video on TwiX, we know the real state of the Tory campaign.
Sunak - with 2 days to go - has been sent to defend Banbury and Witney. You don’t do that unless the situation is dire.
A different campaign I know, but I found the 2019 LibDem campaign to be instructive. Jo Swinson sent us off on her Flight of Icarus tour, with instructions to go contest seats like Berwick and Harrogate and York Outer.
Then with a week to go, someone finally put the canvass returns in front of her and “oh fuck, go defend me and Tim Farron”. She lost her seat.
So we can forget the whispers fed by Ben Houchen International Freeport to the Indy about how good it looks on Teesside. If it looked good then Sunak would be there, trying to build momentum.
He isn’t in Middlesbrough South. He’s in Witney. Because their own numbers tell them that they’re gonna get politically flayed alive on Thursday
A new centre right party/grouping would obviously emerge and hopefully would realise that taking the electorate for granted for 200 years or more is no longer acceptable.
I hope they would realise offering voters the moon on a stick is not acceptable either
Why wouldn't it be? It usually works.
Indeed. Half the population is of below average intelligence, and many people have little idea or interest in how policies are to be implemented. That's the problem with democracy. It's all a bit crap, but on the whole the alternatives have proven to be worse.
Not necessarily true
If the population is 100 people and 99 have 100 iq and one has anything higher (or lower) then 99% will be below (or above) average
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Just a few days now, and you can get back to telling us why you won't be voting Conservative the next time!
You really are rather sad and as a Lib Dem not really a great recruiting sergeant for your cause
Indeed BIg G. Rather proving that old adage that there’s nowt so illiberal as a Liberal. @IanB2 contributed to my decision not to vote LibDem in Newton Abbot. His repeated ‘mistruths’ about it annoyed me one too many times.
I am so glad you and your wife went up the Snowdon railway, although not so good about the weather conditions near the summit, nor the clothing some were wearing.
That's a big sense of humour fail, there
No-one should expect to post on an internet discussion forum free of criticism or comeback. And most especially after a repeat offence.
Let's see what the final models suggest for Newton Abbot; the stuff posted earlier was all legitimate; what turns out to be accurate, no-one yet knows.
Repeat offence - you make it sound like a crime
It was a crime against self-awareness.
I snipped the abuse from your response because it demeans you.
@christopherhope NEW Sir Keir Starmer tells @GBNEWS he does not rule out recounts in some seats due to undelivered postal ballots. Me: "If some postal votes are not counted because they are not delivered by Royal Mail, should there be recounts in some seats on Thursday?" Starmer: "We will cross that bridge when we get to it." He says the focus "at the moment" is making sure ballots are delivered to the right addresses. More at @GBNEWS on the hour.
A friend has just pointed out that Starmer might take Friday evenings off for religious reasons. If so, this might be The Mole's finest work.
(I don't think this has been pointed out on PB so far, but widely noted on twitter)
I think it has been pointed out. If it is the case (which would be fair enough), it's slightly odd that Starmer has avoided mentioning it rather than majoring on wanting to spend time with his beloved kids (also fair enough). Perhaps it's devilish cunning in that he can now quietly say the Tories are worse than Julius Streicher.
Nick Ferrari believes Starmer's Friday Night Dinner comment is a game changer.
Maria Caulfield works 20 hours a day, every day.
The postal vote fiasco continues can we postpone the election at the eleventh hour? This really is unfair that 300,000 lose their franchise. Rishi needs to get a grip and sort this out.
What the heck is the Friday Night Dinner comment and why does it matter?
Only reason I know what Friday Night Dinner is, is its on the rotation of images on Netflix when its on screensaver mode.
Never been interested in it, never seen it.
Starmer says he will continue to spend Friday evening meals with his family. A Jewish tradition. Maria Caulfield, Shapps and Rishi are suggesting Starmer is a lazy part timer.
And I'd say good on him. PM needs to be a human being with his family.
Yes, clocking off at 6 on Friday doesn't seem unreasonable. Can't say I'm often still at my desk at that time.
A friend has just pointed out that Starmer might take Friday evenings off for religious reasons. If so, this might be The Mole's finest work.
(I don't think this has been pointed out on PB so far, but widely noted on twitter)
Au contraire here is moi à 1118:
Dave had his dvd nights, BJ was a poster boy for laziness.
It's the Jewish angle that I find interesting. On the one hand it wrong foots the critics for not knowing and respecting Jewish practices (I knew when the Sabbath starts because I used to instruct an orthodox barrister and if you wanted advice on a Friday in winter you made sure to ring early). OTOH I am not sure if I knew lady s was Jewish. That fact coming to prominence could do labour harm in Muslim heavy constituencies.
I think we can be sure that among those ghastly groups (demonic extremes of left, right, religious + conspiracy theorists) for whom it makes a difference the fact that Lady S is Jewish will be well known, marked and noted.
The rest of us might just note that she appears charming and modest, is not attention seeking, and that she has children and attends Taylor Swift gigs.
Pippa Crerar on X even now saying Starmers 'i will be a part time PM' comments are cutting through. As unfair as that is given the context, and the full quote, its a really stupid thing to say in the run in. Of course it makes no overall difference but its the sort of thing that might tip a few seats and undecideds/Tory waverers/Labour distrusters It does suggest a bit of complacency had sunk in to me
Dave had his dvd nights, BJ was a poster boy for laziness.
It's the Jewish angle that I find interesting. On the one hand it wrong foots the critics for not knowing and respecting Jewish practices (I knew when the Sabbath starts because I used to instruct an orthodox barrister and if you wanted advice on a Friday in winter you made sure to ring early). OTOH I am not sure if I knew lady s was Jewish. That fact coming to prominence could do labour harm in Muslim heavy constituencies.
It won’t be a problem as tomorrow, Starmer will tell us he will be taking Friday mornings off as well, so that he can attend Friday prayers.
He could go the whole hog and do what LD controlled S Cambs DC have done and move to a four day week for the same pay. They claim it is a policy success. Most residents beg to differ.
I haven't noticed much difference, but then I'm not a particularly heavy user of the council's services.
One issue I have is the council leader doing her PhD on the four-day week trial, and not immediately saying so. That sniffs a little to me.
\as an aside, my bigger concern is the council squeezing housing onto land that was supposed to be used for businesses - in what will be the heart of an enlarged town. That land may become much more valuable in a few years.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
Or Labour.
I'm voting Labour for only the second time ever. Literally because they're promising planning reform and principles over party.
If Tories want centre right voters back, they need to appeal to them.
Simply being a high tax, high spend, nasty about people who want spending, nasty about foreigners but not nasty enough to stop migration party is appealing to about nobody.
Fair enough. Good for you. And well argued. One of the most bizarre developments was @Big_G_NorthWales voting Tory despite wanting the Tories out. That one I still haven’t get my head around.
My original plan to vote Labour has been abandoned because the Labour party have chosen a drop in from London to run in my constituency (leafy, rural, SW Wiltshire). Its frankly rather insulting. So its almost certainly going to be the nice Lib Dem candidate (a consultant at the local hospital). As an aside, as I crossed Morrison's carpark on Saturday a mid thirties lady was conversing with a friend "I just can't vote for Keir Starmer", she said. From the look of her, I suspect Starmer is not left wing enough, but that may be overthinking it...
He’s neither Left enough or Remain enough for me, but given the way my constituency seems to be going, according to Electoral Calculus, Labour it’s going to be. Despite the Labour candidate not being the most inspiring candidate.
Come Friday, there's going to be endless dreary Labour MPs. And some REALLY dreary LibDems.
To be fair, they will often be replacing dreary Tory MPs.
But we'll get to see a new lot engage mouth before brain.
@christopherhope NEW Sir Keir Starmer tells @GBNEWS he does not rule out recounts in some seats due to undelivered postal ballots. Me: "If some postal votes are not counted because they are not delivered by Royal Mail, should there be recounts in some seats on Thursday?" Starmer: "We will cross that bridge when we get to it." He says the focus "at the moment" is making sure ballots are delivered to the right addresses. More at @GBNEWS on the hour.
Once a seat is declared, only an election court can overturn the result, even if the ERO finds a whole lot of uncounted papers seconds later.
And self-evidently no-one at the count will know if there are any or many PVs in the post
@christopherhope NEW Sir Keir Starmer tells @GBNEWS he does not rule out recounts in some seats due to undelivered postal ballots. Me: "If some postal votes are not counted because they are not delivered by Royal Mail, should there be recounts in some seats on Thursday?" Starmer: "We will cross that bridge when we get to it." He says the focus "at the moment" is making sure ballots are delivered to the right addresses. More at @GBNEWS on the hour.
Once a seat is declared, only an election court can overturn the result, even if the ERO finds a whole lot of uncounted papers seconds later.
And self-evidently no-one at the count will know if there are any or many PVs in the post
Could the seat not be declared? I presume a very low postal turnout wouldn't be reason enough.
A friend has just pointed out that Starmer might take Friday evenings off for religious reasons. If so, this might be The Mole's finest work.
(I don't think this has been pointed out on PB so far, but widely noted on twitter)
I think it has been pointed out. If it is the case (which would be fair enough), it's slightly odd that Starmer has avoided mentioning it rather than majoring on wanting to spend time with his beloved kids (also fair enough). Perhaps it's devilish cunning in that he can now quietly say the Tories are worse than Julius Streicher.
Sabbath *is* a family thing, of course. No works other than those of necessity or mercy. So no clash there, I'd think.
Also: Tories going on about Labour antisemitism ... doesn't work quite so well, does it?
I do think Starmers comments were a bit of an error (set your own boundaries, no need to tell anyone else about them) but I do think Sunak is probably making too much of them.
Many people in this country will sympathise with Starmer’s position because the always-on work culture that is prevalent in this country and has been growing steadily worse since Covid/remote working is not conducive to a balanced and healthy existence, and many people will themselves be readily aware and be trying to set down their own boundaries on that front. Yes people are well aware that being PM is a 24/7 job, but at the same time I don’t think Sunak shouting “you should be working not having time off!” is a great look.
It's good not to be overdoing it when you get the information that missiles are on the way and you have 5 minutes to decide between two or three options, each equally abominable.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
Or Labour.
I'm voting Labour for only the second time ever. Literally because they're promising planning reform and principles over party.
If Tories want centre right voters back, they need to appeal to them.
Simply being a high tax, high spend, nasty about people who want spending, nasty about foreigners but not nasty enough to stop migration party is appealing to about nobody.
Fair enough. Good for you. And well argued. One of the most bizarre developments was @Big_G_NorthWales voting Tory despite wanting the Tories out. That one I still haven’t get my head around.
My original plan to vote Labour has been abandoned because the Labour party have chosen a drop in from London to run in my constituency (leafy, rural, SW Wiltshire). Its frankly rather insulting. So its almost certainly going to be the nice Lib Dem candidate (a consultant at the local hospital). As an aside, as I crossed Morrison's carpark on Saturday a mid thirties lady was conversing with a friend "I just can't vote for Keir Starmer", she said. From the look of her, I suspect Starmer is not left wing enough, but that may be overthinking it...
He’s neither Left enough or Remain enough for me, but given the way my constituency seems to be going, according to Electoral Calculus, Labour it’s going to be. Despite the Labour candidate not being the most inspiring candidate.
Come Friday, there's going to be endless dreary Labour MPs. And some REALLY dreary LibDems.
To be fair, they will often be replacing dreary Tory MPs.
But we'll get to see a new lot engage mouth before brain.
The nice thing is that from Friday PB can go back to its harmonious days of consensus, gentle ribbing and focus on matters of no great consequence and no great contentiousness such as the US Presidential election.
Keiran Pedley @keiranpedley · 2h Not a prediction but don’t think we should be surprised if there is a bit of late movement this election. We’ve always known there are a good chunk of wavering 2019 Cons & people that may change their mind more generally.
A friend has just pointed out that Starmer might take Friday evenings off for religious reasons. If so, this might be The Mole's finest work.
(I don't think this has been pointed out on PB so far, but widely noted on twitter)
I think it has been pointed out. If it is the case (which would be fair enough), it's slightly odd that Starmer has avoided mentioning it rather than majoring on wanting to spend time with his beloved kids (also fair enough). Perhaps it's devilish cunning in that he can now quietly say the Tories are worse than Julius Streicher.
Also: Tories going on about Labour antisemitism ... doesn't work quite so well, does it?
A Tory anti-Semitism scandal over the last two days of the post-Corbyn election wouldn't make it into a script.
@christopherhope NEW Sir Keir Starmer tells @GBNEWS he does not rule out recounts in some seats due to undelivered postal ballots. Me: "If some postal votes are not counted because they are not delivered by Royal Mail, should there be recounts in some seats on Thursday?" Starmer: "We will cross that bridge when we get to it." He says the focus "at the moment" is making sure ballots are delivered to the right addresses. More at @GBNEWS on the hour.
Forgive my ignorance on this: if someone has registered for a postal vote and the ballot isn't delivered can that person still vote in person? I assume not?
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
Or Labour.
I'm voting Labour for only the second time ever. Literally because they're promising planning reform and principles over party.
If Tories want centre right voters back, they need to appeal to them.
Simply being a high tax, high spend, nasty about people who want spending, nasty about foreigners but not nasty enough to stop migration party is appealing to about nobody.
Fair enough. Good for you. And well argued. One of the most bizarre developments was @Big_G_NorthWales voting Tory despite wanting the Tories out. That one I still haven’t get my head around.
My original plan to vote Labour has been abandoned because the Labour party have chosen a drop in from London to run in my constituency (leafy, rural, SW Wiltshire). Its frankly rather insulting. So its almost certainly going to be the nice Lib Dem candidate (a consultant at the local hospital). As an aside, as I crossed Morrison's carpark on Saturday a mid thirties lady was conversing with a friend "I just can't vote for Keir Starmer", she said. From the look of her, I suspect Starmer is not left wing enough, but that may be overthinking it...
He’s neither Left enough or Remain enough for me, but given the way my constituency seems to be going, according to Electoral Calculus, Labour it’s going to be. Despite the Labour candidate not being the most inspiring candidate.
Come Friday, there's going to be endless dreary Labour MPs. And some REALLY dreary LibDems.
To be fair, they will often be replacing dreary Tory MPs.
But we'll get to see a new lot engage mouth before brain.
'Twas ever thus, and ever will be! How are you feeling today?
@christopherhope NEW Sir Keir Starmer tells @GBNEWS he does not rule out recounts in some seats due to undelivered postal ballots. Me: "If some postal votes are not counted because they are not delivered by Royal Mail, should there be recounts in some seats on Thursday?" Starmer: "We will cross that bridge when we get to it." He says the focus "at the moment" is making sure ballots are delivered to the right addresses. More at @GBNEWS on the hour.
Once a seat is declared, only an election court can overturn the result, even if the ERO finds a whole lot of uncounted papers seconds later.
And self-evidently no-one at the count will know if there are any or many PVs in the post
Could the seat not be declared? I presume a very low postal turnout wouldn't be reason enough.
If they keep doing recounts and they are coming out different, they are allowed to adjourn the count and start again when they are fresh. If there was a serious irregularity - for example a seriously failed verification or a missing ballot box - I dont know what the law says, but would imagine the declaration would be stayed while the law is called in. But they can't just stop because someone thinks more PVs are coming and, unlike the US, votes received after polls close can't be counted anyway
@christopherhope NEW Sir Keir Starmer tells @GBNEWS he does not rule out recounts in some seats due to undelivered postal ballots. Me: "If some postal votes are not counted because they are not delivered by Royal Mail, should there be recounts in some seats on Thursday?" Starmer: "We will cross that bridge when we get to it." He says the focus "at the moment" is making sure ballots are delivered to the right addresses. More at @GBNEWS on the hour.
Once a seat is declared, only an election court can overturn the result, even if the ERO finds a whole lot of uncounted papers seconds later.
And self-evidently no-one at the count will know if there are any or many PVs in the post
Still less whether they make any difference to the result. [deleted as superseded]
Its chalk and cheese compared to the debate. The first 30 minutes of the debate he had no clue where he was, could hardly speak, kept freezing in between answers. If that version of Biden was one of my parents I would be looking at getting them into a care home ASAP.
He "woke up" a bit second half, then looked back to totally zombified at the end, frozen on the stage.
I am struggling to buy the argument that it is because he is just old. He spent 7 days off away preparing for the debate so should have been fresh.
He clearly has good days and bad days, perhaps even good hours and bad hours. It’s genuinely sad to watch, especially the video at the end of the debate, and the subsequent appearance with his wife talking to him like a child while he was just frozen in place.
He’s clearly not well, and certainly isn’t going to get any better in the next four years. Any loving family should just tap him on the shoulder and say that enough is enough - but political families don’t think like that.
Well the report came out the other day, 10-4 is really the only hours he normally functions. I mean Starmer taking Friday night off to be with his family is one thing, but leader of the free world who only does office hours of 10-4 on a very good day is something else and will only get worse.
Good morning.
One of the awful things about Sunak’s attack on Starmer is the apparent lack of awareness of what Friday night means. He really is hopeless as a politician.
On which subject, if you’ve never seen Friday Night Dinner then it’s highly recommended. Great comedy.
I love the fact that Keir is showing the way with something that matters. I’m sick and tired of Sunak’s nasty little attempt to normalise work-until-you-drop ethics in Britain. It may be de rigueur in Silicon Valley start-ups but it does not make for a happier world.
Ahem, I pointed it out first thing this morning.
It really is a dreadful moment in the tory campaign. Has considerably pissed me off.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
Or Labour.
I'm voting Labour for only the second time ever. Literally because they're promising planning reform and principles over party.
If Tories want centre right voters back, they need to appeal to them.
Simply being a high tax, high spend, nasty about people who want spending, nasty about foreigners but not nasty enough to stop migration party is appealing to about nobody.
Fair enough. Good for you. And well argued. One of the most bizarre developments was @Big_G_NorthWales voting Tory despite wanting the Tories out. That one I still haven’t get my head around.
My original plan to vote Labour has been abandoned because the Labour party have chosen a drop in from London to run in my constituency (leafy, rural, SW Wiltshire). Its frankly rather insulting. So its almost certainly going to be the nice Lib Dem candidate (a consultant at the local hospital). As an aside, as I crossed Morrison's carpark on Saturday a mid thirties lady was conversing with a friend "I just can't vote for Keir Starmer", she said. From the look of her, I suspect Starmer is not left wing enough, but that may be overthinking it...
He’s neither Left enough or Remain enough for me, but given the way my constituency seems to be going, according to Electoral Calculus, Labour it’s going to be. Despite the Labour candidate not being the most inspiring candidate.
Come Friday, there's going to be endless dreary Labour MPs. And some REALLY dreary LibDems.
To be fair, they will often be replacing dreary Tory MPs.
But we'll get to see a new lot engage mouth before brain.
'Twas ever thus, and ever will be! How are you feeling today?
Thanks for asking. "Trampled by a herd of elephants" about covers it!
@christopherhope NEW Sir Keir Starmer tells @GBNEWS he does not rule out recounts in some seats due to undelivered postal ballots. Me: "If some postal votes are not counted because they are not delivered by Royal Mail, should there be recounts in some seats on Thursday?" Starmer: "We will cross that bridge when we get to it." He says the focus "at the moment" is making sure ballots are delivered to the right addresses. More at @GBNEWS on the hour.
Once a seat is declared, only an election court can overturn the result, even if the ERO finds a whole lot of uncounted papers seconds later.
And self-evidently no-one at the count will know if there are any or many PVs in the post
Still less whether they make any difference to the result. They might simply replicate the existing vote, unless it was very marginal, in which case the loser (but not the winner) should go to court. Not as if they could lose any more.
I believe there has been a case where a bundle error was discovered as they were packing up, that would have changed the result, in a local election. But it's a dim recollection and I don't have the details
Has this been discussed? It seems a moderately interesting proposal, though I fear rooting out political lying will never catch on. Quite amusing that it's taking place in the maelstrom of political falsehood that is a GE though.
A friend has just pointed out that Starmer might take Friday evenings off for religious reasons. If so, this might be The Mole's finest work.
(I don't think this has been pointed out on PB so far, but widely noted on twitter)
I think it has been pointed out. If it is the case (which would be fair enough), it's slightly odd that Starmer has avoided mentioning it rather than majoring on wanting to spend time with his beloved kids (also fair enough). Perhaps it's devilish cunning in that he can now quietly say the Tories are worse than Julius Streicher.
Also: Tories going on about Labour antisemitism ... doesn't work quite so well, does it?
A Tory anti-Semitism scandal over the last two days of the post-Corbyn election wouldn't make it into a script.
Because trivial? Or because improbably unbelievable?
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
Or Labour.
I'm voting Labour for only the second time ever. Literally because they're promising planning reform and principles over party.
If Tories want centre right voters back, they need to appeal to them.
Simply being a high tax, high spend, nasty about people who want spending, nasty about foreigners but not nasty enough to stop migration party is appealing to about nobody.
Fair enough. Good for you. And well argued. One of the most bizarre developments was @Big_G_NorthWales voting Tory despite wanting the Tories out. That one I still haven’t get my head around.
My original plan to vote Labour has been abandoned because the Labour party have chosen a drop in from London to run in my constituency (leafy, rural, SW Wiltshire). Its frankly rather insulting. So its almost certainly going to be the nice Lib Dem candidate (a consultant at the local hospital). As an aside, as I crossed Morrison's carpark on Saturday a mid thirties lady was conversing with a friend "I just can't vote for Keir Starmer", she said. From the look of her, I suspect Starmer is not left wing enough, but that may be overthinking it...
He’s neither Left enough or Remain enough for me, but given the way my constituency seems to be going, according to Electoral Calculus, Labour it’s going to be. Despite the Labour candidate not being the most inspiring candidate.
Come Friday, there's going to be endless dreary Labour MPs. And some REALLY dreary LibDems.
To be fair, they will often be replacing dreary Tory MPs.
But we'll get to see a new lot engage mouth before brain.
The nice thing is that from Friday PB can go back to its harmonious days of consensus, gentle ribbing and focus on matters of no great consequence and no great contentiousness such as the US Presidential election.
I'll be curious to catch up with what's been going on in the Punic Wars....
@christopherhope NEW Sir Keir Starmer tells @GBNEWS he does not rule out recounts in some seats due to undelivered postal ballots. Me: "If some postal votes are not counted because they are not delivered by Royal Mail, should there be recounts in some seats on Thursday?" Starmer: "We will cross that bridge when we get to it." He says the focus "at the moment" is making sure ballots are delivered to the right addresses. More at @GBNEWS on the hour.
Forgive my ignorance on this: if someone has registered for a postal vote and the ballot isn't delivered can that person still vote in person? I assume not?
No - if you glance at the list of names when you go to vote, you will see that the postal voters are already crossed off.
If you made a real fuss you might get given a pink ballot paper, perhaps
A friend has just pointed out that Starmer might take Friday evenings off for religious reasons. If so, this might be The Mole's finest work.
(I don't think this has been pointed out on PB so far, but widely noted on twitter)
Jewish customs have been mentioned. Tbh I'd be sceptical there is or needs to be any religious element. I suspect it comes from people who do not know many Jews but have read a Wikipedia page (eta and who also do not know it is customary for PMs to spend weekends at Chequers, which is why Boris did not take part in Wine Time Fridays). It is a family tradition that quite possibly did start for religious reasons generations back but is now just something they do.
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
I want to address this directly
I was going to vote Lib Dem post Sunak's D day error but it was when Farage entered the fray as leader of Reform that we (my wife and I) made the decision it was correct for us to return to the conservatives as it it far more important to us that the conservatives out vote Reform in votes
Whether that happens I do not know but a vote for the Lib Dems here would have been a wasted vote anyway as labour are going to easily regain the seat
You could equally have decided it was important that the Lib Dems beat Reform on votes. Or that Plaid Cymru beat Reform in Wales. But you didn't. Because you're a Tory tribalist. It's not about Reform, it's about finding some reason to justify what you were always going to do anyway.
Basically every single thing you say can be discounted if it can be contradicted with "but you'll vote Tory anyway". Because you will. Your bland handwringing over Tory scandals can be (and in some quarters was) safely disregarded because the conclusion was always going to be same.
Please disregard everything I post and say if you so wish
I will continue to post as honestly as I can as long as I can
Already do, but I hope you don't think that also means I'll stop pointing out hypocrisy
Oh, I guess you won't be voting Starmer then?
Correct, I won't be
And yet you seem so keen for him to be PM. Hypocrite.
Do I? I'm keen for the Conservatives to be out of power, and I'm realistic enough to know that Labour are the only likely winner. If pushed, I would prefer a Lib Dem led government over a Labour one, but a Labour one will do.
Nigel, if you're going to call people hypocrites at least try to get a handle on their actual view instead of just making any old shit up, there's a good lad.
Hypocrite. There you go, and sorry I really couldn't give a flying fuck about your sad "actual view", as it appears that your "actual view" is really pretty unpleasant..
I have voted LD for the last two elections, though I am pleased that I will not be voting alongside a party that has such unpleasant emotionally unintelligent gits amongst it's following such as yourself. There is also the slight problem with the LDs having a fat buffoon as leader; Boris-Johnson-lite.
I'm probably* not voting Lib Dem either. You can have yet another go if you like! Eventually you might have enough of a handle on what's actually going on and then you can find some deep set hypocrisy and wound me, wound me with your formidable wit.
*I might, though. I will decide tomorrow.
What do I need to say to get your vote? Latest campaign push on FB points out that both Tory and SNP are saying the exact same thing about each other - you have to vote for x to stop y. What people are actually saying on the doorstep doesnt concern either of those two.
I’m the only candidate who’s been talking up jobs and the cost of living and the state of the NHS and council services - literally the only things anyone raises in the doors. And that isn’t just my opinion - Ross and Logan both confirmed that’s what they hear as well.
So why are they only talking about each other? People want change - so vote for it. Voting for more cuts and more broken promises and more failure changes nothing
Its chalk and cheese compared to the debate. The first 30 minutes of the debate he had no clue where he was, could hardly speak, kept freezing in between answers. If that version of Biden was one of my parents I would be looking at getting them into a care home ASAP.
He "woke up" a bit second half, then looked back to totally zombified at the end, frozen on the stage.
I am struggling to buy the argument that it is because he is just old. He spent 7 days off away preparing for the debate so should have been fresh.
He clearly has good days and bad days, perhaps even good hours and bad hours. It’s genuinely sad to watch, especially the video at the end of the debate, and the subsequent appearance with his wife talking to him like a child while he was just frozen in place.
He’s clearly not well, and certainly isn’t going to get any better in the next four years. Any loving family should just tap him on the shoulder and say that enough is enough - but political families don’t think like that.
Well the report came out the other day, 10-4 is really the only hours he normally functions. I mean Starmer taking Friday night off to be with his family is one thing, but leader of the free world who only does office hours of 10-4 on a very good day is something else and will only get worse.
Good morning.
One of the awful things about Sunak’s attack on Starmer is the apparent lack of awareness of what Friday night means. He really is hopeless as a politician.
On which subject, if you’ve never seen Friday Night Dinner then it’s highly recommended. Great comedy.
I love the fact that Keir is showing the way with something that matters. I’m sick and tired of Sunak’s nasty little attempt to normalise work-until-you-drop ethics in Britain. It may be de rigueur in Silicon Valley start-ups but it does not make for a happier world.
Ahem, I pointed it out first thing this morning.
It really is a dreadful moment in the tory campaign. Has considerably pissed me off.
Incidentally, I also said this probably wasn’t the time and place for lessons in R.E.
For many Jewish families Friday night is a family / cultural / traditional ‘thing’ rather than a religious one, as it is for more Orthodox adherents. Watch Friday Night Dinner for a great, and very funny, rendition.
Keir Starmer’s wife is Jewish and as a family they attend a liberal synagogue in North London, and have done for years.
This attack by Sunak and now Maria Caulfield is the ultimate low point for me. Despicable.
A friend has just pointed out that Starmer might take Friday evenings off for religious reasons. If so, this might be The Mole's finest work.
(I don't think this has been pointed out on PB so far, but widely noted on twitter)
I think it has been pointed out. If it is the case (which would be fair enough), it's slightly odd that Starmer has avoided mentioning it rather than majoring on wanting to spend time with his beloved kids (also fair enough). Perhaps it's devilish cunning in that he can now quietly say the Tories are worse than Julius Streicher.
Also: Tories going on about Labour antisemitism ... doesn't work quite so well, does it?
A Tory anti-Semitism scandal over the last two days of the post-Corbyn election wouldn't make it into a script.
Well, there's this. Oops, I forgot, Le Pen and her formerly antisemitic pals are now bulwarks against antisemitism.
Its chalk and cheese compared to the debate. The first 30 minutes of the debate he had no clue where he was, could hardly speak, kept freezing in between answers. If that version of Biden was one of my parents I would be looking at getting them into a care home ASAP.
He "woke up" a bit second half, then looked back to totally zombified at the end, frozen on the stage.
I am struggling to buy the argument that it is because he is just old. He spent 7 days off away preparing for the debate so should have been fresh.
He clearly has good days and bad days, perhaps even good hours and bad hours. It’s genuinely sad to watch, especially the video at the end of the debate, and the subsequent appearance with his wife talking to him like a child while he was just frozen in place.
He’s clearly not well, and certainly isn’t going to get any better in the next four years. Any loving family should just tap him on the shoulder and say that enough is enough - but political families don’t think like that.
Well the report came out the other day, 10-4 is really the only hours he normally functions. I mean Starmer taking Friday night off to be with his family is one thing, but leader of the free world who only does office hours of 10-4 on a very good day is something else and will only get worse.
Good morning.
One of the awful things about Sunak’s attack on Starmer is the apparent lack of awareness of what Friday night means. He really is hopeless as a politician.
On which subject, if you’ve never seen Friday Night Dinner then it’s highly recommended. Great comedy.
I love the fact that Keir is showing the way with something that matters. I’m sick and tired of Sunak’s nasty little attempt to normalise work-until-you-drop ethics in Britain. It may be de rigueur in Silicon Valley start-ups but it does not make for a happier world.
Ahem, I pointed it out first thing this morning.
It really is a dreadful moment in the tory campaign. Has considerably pissed me off.
A friend has just pointed out that Starmer might take Friday evenings off for religious reasons. If so, this might be The Mole's finest work.
(I don't think this has been pointed out on PB so far, but widely noted on twitter)
I think it has been pointed out. If it is the case (which would be fair enough), it's slightly odd that Starmer has avoided mentioning it rather than majoring on wanting to spend time with his beloved kids (also fair enough). Perhaps it's devilish cunning in that he can now quietly say the Tories are worse than Julius Streicher.
Also: Tories going on about Labour antisemitism ... doesn't work quite so well, does it?
A Tory anti-Semitism scandal over the last two days of the post-Corbyn election wouldn't make it into a script.
Because trivial? Or because improbably unbelievable?
@christopherhope NEW Sir Keir Starmer tells @GBNEWS he does not rule out recounts in some seats due to undelivered postal ballots. Me: "If some postal votes are not counted because they are not delivered by Royal Mail, should there be recounts in some seats on Thursday?" Starmer: "We will cross that bridge when we get to it." He says the focus "at the moment" is making sure ballots are delivered to the right addresses. More at @GBNEWS on the hour.
Forgive my ignorance on this: if someone has registered for a postal vote and the ballot isn't delivered can that person still vote in person? I assume not?
No - if you glance at the list of names when you go to vote, you will see that the postal voters are already crossed off.
If you made a real fuss you might get given a pink ballot paper, perhaps
I really dislike the broadening out of postal voting. It should only be for exceptional circumstances. We lose control about who is actually voting.
If you register for postal voting you take the risk that the ballot doesn't get to you in time, that's the risk - end of.
Has this been discussed? It seems a moderately interesting proposal, though I fear rooting out political lying will never catch on. Quite amusing that it's taking place in the maelstrom of political falsehood that is a GE though.
Has this been discussed? It seems a moderately interesting proposal, though I fear rooting out political lying will never catch on. Quite amusing that it's taking place in the maelstrom of political falsehood that is a GE though.
Interesting. One way to examine the proposal would be to consider how it works in the context of existing legislation, such as in this kind of instance:
Technically there is no such thing as a Supermajority in the UK.
A landslide I would say is c. 120+ majority. Some would set the bar a bit lower.
I suspect that this Tory / Daily Mail Supermajority message is cutting through and I’m not too unhappy about it. If it helps defeat @Leon ’s warped worldview then it’s a double win as far as I’m concerned.
There seems to be mixed signals. On one hand "its cutting through" - as I have to presume witnessed by this absurd 48 Hours thing. On the other hand the net of seats to LB attack / Tory defend gets stretched further and further.
It won't people an avalanche of people voting Labour. But they're voting against the Tories. Only a few days to find out if there is a late Tory swingback or not. But lets assume there is, and the "please please no" campaign has "worked" and Labour "only" win a 150 majority
Bit abject isn't it for the Tories? "We successfully avoided getting crushed! We only got beat by a massive landslide! WooHoo!!!!"
I would suggest you may be missing the point that many conservatives look on in disgust at Reform and their stated aim to take over the party and are determined to fight for the one nation conservative cause, but also to have at least a viable opposition and yes including an increased lib dem seat count
I have no idea of Fridays seat totals but disenchantment with all governing parties is at an extreme high, not just here but elsewhere and you only need to witness what is happening in France to be concerned if the centre right is marginalised into irrelevance
No I get it - we don't want Farage.
That is a given, the motivation to salvage as many seats as possible. And *that* is my point. The best case scenario - one the party is now spending its remaining cash pleading for - is to only give Labour a landslide.
How the mighty have fallen. It took Labour over a decade to recover from a badly misguided comedy note channeling Reginald Maudling. How long will it take the Tories to recover from "please don't destroy us, isn't a landslide enough for you?"
I kinda understand BigG's position. But a clearer signal to the Tories to return to the centre would be to vote for the centre. That's the Lib Dems, probably.
Or Labour.
I'm voting Labour for only the second time ever. Literally because they're promising planning reform and principles over party.
If Tories want centre right voters back, they need to appeal to them.
Simply being a high tax, high spend, nasty about people who want spending, nasty about foreigners but not nasty enough to stop migration party is appealing to about nobody.
Fair enough. Good for you. And well argued. One of the most bizarre developments was @Big_G_NorthWales voting Tory despite wanting the Tories out. That one I still haven’t get my head around.
My original plan to vote Labour has been abandoned because the Labour party have chosen a drop in from London to run in my constituency (leafy, rural, SW Wiltshire). Its frankly rather insulting. So its almost certainly going to be the nice Lib Dem candidate (a consultant at the local hospital). As an aside, as I crossed Morrison's carpark on Saturday a mid thirties lady was conversing with a friend "I just can't vote for Keir Starmer", she said. From the look of her, I suspect Starmer is not left wing enough, but that may be overthinking it...
He’s neither Left enough or Remain enough for me, but given the way my constituency seems to be going, according to Electoral Calculus, Labour it’s going to be. Despite the Labour candidate not being the most inspiring candidate.
Come Friday, there's going to be endless dreary Labour MPs. And some REALLY dreary LibDems.
To be fair, they will often be replacing dreary Tory MPs.
But we'll get to see a new lot engage mouth before brain.
'Twas ever thus, and ever will be! How are you feeling today?
Thanks for asking. "Trampled by a herd of elephants" about covers it!
But nothing can dent my cheery disposition.
(Well, 'til Friday!)
Very uncomfortable. Best wishes.
Irrespective of (significant) political differences you are one of the Pb-ers whose posts I look for.
A friend has just pointed out that Starmer might take Friday evenings off for religious reasons. If so, this might be The Mole's finest work.
(I don't think this has been pointed out on PB so far, but widely noted on twitter)
I think it has been pointed out. If it is the case (which would be fair enough), it's slightly odd that Starmer has avoided mentioning it rather than majoring on wanting to spend time with his beloved kids (also fair enough). Perhaps it's devilish cunning in that he can now quietly say the Tories are worse than Julius Streicher.
Also: Tories going on about Labour antisemitism ... doesn't work quite so well, does it?
A Tory anti-Semitism scandal over the last two days of the post-Corbyn election wouldn't make it into a script.
Because trivial? Or because improbably unbelievable?
The latter.
Thanks - makes sense. I wondered if you meant they were doing such an awful job already it didn't move the needle from the stop.
Its chalk and cheese compared to the debate. The first 30 minutes of the debate he had no clue where he was, could hardly speak, kept freezing in between answers. If that version of Biden was one of my parents I would be looking at getting them into a care home ASAP.
He "woke up" a bit second half, then looked back to totally zombified at the end, frozen on the stage.
I am struggling to buy the argument that it is because he is just old. He spent 7 days off away preparing for the debate so should have been fresh.
He clearly has good days and bad days, perhaps even good hours and bad hours. It’s genuinely sad to watch, especially the video at the end of the debate, and the subsequent appearance with his wife talking to him like a child while he was just frozen in place.
He’s clearly not well, and certainly isn’t going to get any better in the next four years. Any loving family should just tap him on the shoulder and say that enough is enough - but political families don’t think like that.
Well the report came out the other day, 10-4 is really the only hours he normally functions. I mean Starmer taking Friday night off to be with his family is one thing, but leader of the free world who only does office hours of 10-4 on a very good day is something else and will only get worse.
Good morning.
One of the awful things about Sunak’s attack on Starmer is the apparent lack of awareness of what Friday night means. He really is hopeless as a politician.
On which subject, if you’ve never seen Friday Night Dinner then it’s highly recommended. Great comedy.
I love the fact that Keir is showing the way with something that matters. I’m sick and tired of Sunak’s nasty little attempt to normalise work-until-you-drop ethics in Britain. It may be de rigueur in Silicon Valley start-ups but it does not make for a happier world.
Ahem, I pointed it out first thing this morning.
It really is a dreadful moment in the tory campaign. Has considerably pissed me off.
Incidentally, I also said this probably wasn’t the time and place for lessons in R.E.
For many Jewish families Friday night is a family / cultural / traditional ‘thing’ rather than a religious one, as it is for more Orthodox adherents. Watch Friday Night Dinner for a great, and very funny, rendition.
Keir Starmer’s wife is Jewish and as a family they attend a liberal synagogue in North London, and have done for years.
This attack by Sunak and now Maria Caulfield is the ultimate low point for me. Despicable.
Sabbath starts on Friday Evening (nightfall) and runs to Saturday evening (nightfall).
Back to the two/three days argument.
Friday evening meal is their equivalent of Sunday Lunch.
Comments
So, no, that’s not funny. This is democracy and sometimes the LibDems really don’t help themselves with their truth-bending.
5-13 off 7.4 overs.
He's nearly 42.
Far more important for the election in November is whether Trump is jailed or not next week and the post convention bounces for each candidate.
I don't think most mainstream observers understand quite how dominant Starmer is. He's shaping the narrative to his advantage. It's been this way since Truss. It's not even as if there's people behind the scenes pulling the strings. There doesn't need to be.
He's generating his own tailwind.
This is what happens when the governing party vacates the centre ground of British politics.
Centre right Les Republicains are near destroyed in France and the French now effectively have a choice between a Faragite (but with far right history) Party and a Corbynite Party which won the most and second most seats in their parliament last Sunday
He could take one for the team and take steps to clean up the criminal cesspits swirling around Donald Trump.
What's Biden worried about? Effects on his future career?
Starting on Friday, elegantly enough.
(But yeah. The long hours fetish is presumably part of Rishi's psyche and also one of the reasons the country is in a bad way.)
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/music/starmer-accepted-76k-worth-of-gifts-including-football-and-concert-tickets/ar-BB1pg7ht?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=dae392f64b2246a4a8b6de3fa4f8584c&ei=48
IanB2 is NOT the whole of the LidDems
The LibDems are not responsible for his utterings
PB Rant Mode = Off;
Thank you and my wife, my daughter, and myself are going up Snowdon again in 10 days so hopefully the weather may be kinder
I mean “partying”, because you wouldn't of course dream of being disingenuous (especially being so clever you can win arguments without lies,) and define partying in a way no normal person would. Thanks.
Indeed PR is more likely to see a centre right party other than the Tories emerge as it might win a few seats, under FPTP it would just get steamrollered by Farage if the Tories collapsed
Fortunately Devon CC owns the trackbed between Meldon and Lydford that is cyclepath (not Sustrans) so it can be converted to single track + cycleway as is already the case between Okehampton and Meldon. You could also have a lengthy double track stretch between Lydford and north of Tavistock by putting the cycles on the Ex GW line (where they would want to stay right through to Tavistock as the ex GW line is a cyclepath from Tavy to Plymouth
You need to get a life and again, you are not an advert for the Lib Dems
6-18.
"The view that "Buses are for poor people" boils my pee"
Outside big cities, this does unfortunately tend to be the case. I like the fact that London buses are used by everyone.
In 2019 BoZo promised Brexit
In 2024 the people who voted for that will now vote overwhelmingly to prevent the people who promised it from governing for the next 5 years
The voters got what they were promised. And it's shit.
And these people are saying they want more of it...
Many people in this country will sympathise with Starmer’s position because the always-on work culture that is prevalent in this country and has been growing steadily worse since Covid/remote working is not conducive to a balanced and healthy existence, and many people will themselves be readily aware and be trying to set down their own boundaries on that front. Yes people are well aware that being PM is a 24/7 job, but at the same time I don’t think Sunak shouting “you should be working not having time off!” is a great look.
Absolutely staggering.
If his statement means he plans to return to proper cabinet government then hurrah for him.
I have voted LD for the last two elections, though I am pleased that I will not be voting alongside a party that has such unpleasant emotionally unintelligent gits amongst it's following such as yourself. There is also the slight problem with the LDs having a fat buffoon as leader; Boris-Johnson-lite.
(I don't think this has been pointed out on PB so far, but widely noted on twitter)
He needs an energy and a ruthlessness in delivering change"
https://www.newstatesman.com/podcasts/new-statesman-podcast/election-watch/2024/07/andrew-marr-to-succeed-starmer-must-upset-a-lot-of-people
Which it did - for about 5 minutes. During which time - possibly coincidentally, but who knows - the party which delivered it grew in popularity.
But then the party in power allowed immigration to grow, massively, and became unpopular with those voters who had switched to it in the hope of delivering lower immigration. Many of these voters then decided to vote for a party which promised to lower immigration.
You don't have to agree with the desire to lower immigration. But you can see why those who do moved towards, then away from the Conservative Party.
Dave had his dvd nights, BJ was a poster boy for laziness.
It's the Jewish angle that I find interesting. On the one hand it wrong foots the critics for not knowing and respecting Jewish practices (I knew when the Sabbath starts because I used to instruct an orthodox barrister and if you wanted advice on a Friday in winter you made sure to ring early). OTOH I am not sure if I knew lady s was Jewish. That fact coming to prominence could do labour harm in Muslim heavy constituencies.
Keiran Pedley
@keiranpedley
·
2h
Not a prediction but don’t think we should be surprised if there is a bit of late movement this election. We’ve always known there are a good chunk of wavering 2019 Cons & people that may change their mind more generally.
https://x.com/keiranpedley
*Checks Robinson’s figures*
Hmmm
For all of the bluster in the media about Starmer outrageously seeing his kids and of the “Starmer will sell you to Putin” video on TwiX, we know the real state of the Tory campaign.
Sunak - with 2 days to go - has been sent to defend Banbury and Witney. You don’t do that unless the situation is dire.
A different campaign I know, but I found the 2019 LibDem campaign to be instructive. Jo Swinson sent us off on her Flight of Icarus tour, with instructions to go contest seats like Berwick and Harrogate and York Outer.
Then with a week to go, someone finally put the canvass returns in front of her and “oh fuck, go defend me and Tim Farron”. She lost her seat.
So we can forget the whispers fed by Ben Houchen International Freeport to the Indy about how good it looks on Teesside. If it looked good then Sunak would be there, trying to build momentum.
He isn’t in Middlesbrough South. He’s in Witney. Because their own numbers tell them that they’re gonna get politically flayed alive on Thursday
If the population is 100 people and 99 have 100 iq and one has anything higher (or lower) then 99% will be below (or above) average
I snipped the abuse from your response because it demeans you.
Christopher Hope📝
@christopherhope
NEW
Sir Keir Starmer tells
@GBNEWS
he does not rule out recounts in some seats due to undelivered postal ballots.
Me: "If some postal votes are not counted because they are not delivered by Royal Mail, should there be recounts in some seats on Thursday?"
Starmer: "We will cross that bridge when we get to it."
He says the focus "at the moment" is making sure ballots are delivered to the right addresses.
More at
@GBNEWS
on the hour.
If it is the case (which would be fair enough), it's slightly odd that Starmer has avoided mentioning it rather than majoring on wanting to spend time with his beloved kids (also fair enough). Perhaps it's devilish cunning in that he can now quietly say the Tories are worse than Julius Streicher.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/video/news/farage-speech-interrupted-by-putin-banner/vi-BB1p96e5?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=61f787ec31b249779304a7e2be715818&ei=127
The rest of us might just note that she appears charming and modest, is not attention seeking, and that she has children and attends Taylor Swift gigs.
One issue I have is the council leader doing her PhD on the four-day week trial, and not immediately saying so. That sniffs a little to me.
\as an aside, my bigger concern is the council squeezing housing onto land that was supposed to be used for businesses - in what will be the heart of an enlarged town. That land may become much more valuable in a few years.
To be fair, they will often be replacing dreary Tory MPs.
But we'll get to see a new lot engage mouth before brain.
And self-evidently no-one at the count will know if there are any or many PVs in the post
Also: Tories going on about Labour antisemitism ... doesn't work quite so well, does it?
Sunak will be too busy booking flights to the US.
https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1808088661575025084?t=E6djBR2yd-CZYmKKJakUwQ&s=19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rAI_Z91v58
How are you feeling today?
Green > Lab
Ref/DK > Con
Ahem, I pointed it out first thing this morning.
It really is a dreadful moment in the tory campaign. Has considerably pissed me off.
But nothing can dent my cheery disposition.
(Well, 'til Friday!)
https://x.com/OborneTweets/status/1808102040947601472
If you made a real fuss you might get given a pink ballot paper, perhaps
I’m the only candidate who’s been talking up jobs and the cost of living and the state of the NHS and council services - literally the only things anyone raises in the doors. And that isn’t just my opinion - Ross and Logan both confirmed that’s what they hear as well.
So why are they only talking about each other? People want change - so vote for it. Voting for more cuts and more broken promises and more failure changes nothing
For many Jewish families Friday night is a family / cultural / traditional ‘thing’ rather than a religious one, as it is for more Orthodox adherents. Watch Friday Night Dinner for a great, and very funny, rendition.
Keir Starmer’s wife is Jewish and as a family they attend a liberal synagogue in North London, and have done for years.
This attack by Sunak and now Maria Caulfield is the ultimate low point for me. Despicable.
Oops, I forgot, Le Pen and her formerly antisemitic pals are now bulwarks against antisemitism.
https://x.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1808099855371252218
If you register for postal voting you take the risk that the ballot doesn't get to you in time, that's the risk - end of.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/09/alistair-carmichael-lib-dem-election-court-throws-out-attempt-to-unseat-mp
Irrespective of (significant) political differences you are one of the Pb-ers whose posts I look for.
Back to the two/three days argument.
Friday evening meal is their equivalent of Sunday Lunch.
Sunak is an ignorant idiot.